On Mon, 26 Dec 2005 01:23:56 GMT, Bible Bob
<biblebob(NOSPAM)@saintly.com> wrote:

On Sun, 25 Dec 2005 15:03:48 -0600, "@ home" <kc0oeb~@yahoo.com>
wrote:

Mike Rhodes wrote:

On Sun, 25 Dec 2005 09:19:58 -0800, "Bible John"
<john.doggett@x-files.gov> wrote:

Have a blessed season and holidays.

Merry Christmas

I hope everyone got what they wanted,
but remember that its more important to give than to receive.

In your post, you applied that thought to your own family, but I would
like to approach the commonly spoken words as if they were intended to
be universal.

You state the phrase as if it were an unquestionable fact. But they
are not. Christ did not teach unconditional giving as blessed, though
some would attribute such words to Him.

It is in Act 20:35, "I have shown you all things, that working in this
way we ought to help the weak, and to remember the words of the Lord
Jesus, that He Himself said, It is more blessed to give than to
receive."

So it is Luke's quote of Paul, who is written to have spoken it as if
quoting Christ directly. But how could Paul do that? And no one else
recorded it? We know the apostle John ignored that perspective of
Christ entirely! (And, by the way, Paul has the nerve to claim to
have shown us all things?!)

It is Luke's political bent on Christ, who did not teach this. Luke
was a communist, and a liar; who put words in Christ's mouth. Compare
his recording of the sermon on the mount with that of Matthew's, at
least the first portion. It is so different as to show a purposed
change in words; i.e. lieing, with its clear purpose as a class
warfare for the poor. I am not so embarrassed as to return that
fight.

Giving gifts could be an attempt to buy friends, and/or buy off one's
own conscience. That necessarily need not be thought as repentance,
but as avoiding repentance. While recieving could be a measure of
one's own blessedness.

My complaint is the teaching of unconditional giving. Don't throw
your property away and think that in itself was a good deed;
'blessed'. Those pharisees would love to see the church do that, to
become poorer, and make their enemies richer! And also encourage
those with sensible minds to avoid such destructive self-abuse.
Communists like Luke have their own motives.

The war on the church did not end after the crucifixion, and certainly
did not end after Paul's conversion. Someone with smarts wrote some
bad stuff to people who did not have access to publishers to fill
their libraries. Those who would conspire to crucify will do other
things. Copying letters back then was a process hidden in the dark.

Mat 15:26 "It is not fair to take the children's bread and cast it to
the dogs."
--
Mike

Mike, you need to clean your own house up before telling others to
clean theirs....

I am cleaning my house. Wait till you see the garbage burn, @ home.
You might even be part of it.

---

I think both of you are responding to a spoofer. And if you are both
Christians and arguing; hasn't the spoofer accomplished his goal?

I didn't think it was a spoofer, BB, though it shouldn't matter to the
intent of my post.

Both Christians? Really?
And arguing? On the usenet?!

Let us not pretend that Substantial arguments do not exist; especially
in the 'Christian' 'domain', or whatever the hell that branched thing
is. It seems to lack some pruning, don't you think?

not.
--
Michael

On Mon, 26 Dec 2005 01:23:56 GMT, Bible Bob
<biblebob(NOSPAM)@saintly.com> wrote:

On Sun, 25 Dec 2005 15:03:48 -0600, "@ home" <kc0oeb~@yahoo.com>
wrote:

Mike Rhodes wrote:

On Sun, 25 Dec 2005 09:19:58 -0800, "Bible John"
<john.doggett@x-files.gov> wrote:

Have a blessed season and holidays.

Merry Christmas

I hope everyone got what they wanted,
but remember that its more important to give than to receive.

In your post, you applied that thought to your own family, but I would
like to approach the commonly spoken words as if they were intended to
be universal.

You state the phrase as if it were an unquestionable fact. But they
are not. Christ did not teach unconditional giving as blessed, though
some would attribute such words to Him.

It is in Act 20:35, "I have shown you all things, that working in this
way we ought to help the weak, and to remember the words of the Lord
Jesus, that He Himself said, It is more blessed to give than to
receive."

So it is Luke's quote of Paul, who is written to have spoken it as if
quoting Christ directly. But how could Paul do that? And no one else
recorded it? We know the apostle John ignored that perspective of
Christ entirely! (And, by the way, Paul has the nerve to claim to
have shown us all things?!)

It is Luke's political bent on Christ, who did not teach this. Luke
was a communist, and a liar; who put words in Christ's mouth. Compare
his recording of the sermon on the mount with that of Matthew's, at
least the first portion. It is so different as to show a purposed
change in words; i.e. lieing, with its clear purpose as a class
warfare for the poor. I am not so embarrassed as to return that
fight.

Giving gifts could be an attempt to buy friends, and/or buy off one's
own conscience. That necessarily need not be thought as repentance,
but as avoiding repentance. While recieving could be a measure of
one's own blessedness.

My complaint is the teaching of unconditional giving. Don't throw
your property away and think that in itself was a good deed;
'blessed'. Those pharisees would love to see the church do that, to
become poorer, and make their enemies richer! And also encourage
those with sensible minds to avoid such destructive self-abuse.
Communists like Luke have their own motives.

The war on the church did not end after the crucifixion, and certainly
did not end after Paul's conversion. Someone with smarts wrote some
bad stuff to people who did not have access to publishers to fill
their libraries. Those who would conspire to crucify will do other
things. Copying letters back then was a process hidden in the dark.

Mat 15:26 "It is not fair to take the children's bread and cast it to
the dogs."
--
Mike

Mike, you need to clean your own house up before telling others to
clean theirs....

I am cleaning my house. Wait till you see the garbage burn, @ home.
You might even be part of it.
---

I think both of you are responding to a spoofer. And if you are both
Christians and arguing; hasn't the spoofer accomplished his goal?

I didn't think it was a spoofer, BB, though it shouldn't matter to the
intent of my post.

Both Christians? Really?
And arguing? On the usenet?!

Let us not pretend that Substantial arguments do not exist; especially
in the 'Christian' 'domain', or whatever the hell that branched thing
is. It seems to lack some pruning, don't you think? Healthy, it is
not.