| Topic: |
Religions > Bible |
| User: |
"Pastor Dave" |
| Date: |
28 Jan 2008 07:25:08 PM |
| Object: |
Nailed to the Cross: The Law is Gone!!! |
Jesus said the that until heaven and earth pass and
*ALL* was fulfilled, which I believe happened already,
being symbolic statements of the Temple system
(history bears this out), not one dot, nor one stroke
of the Law would pass. So either this has happened,
or *ALL* of the Law still stands and is in full force!
Now some will try to separate off the Ten Commandments
and claim that we must follow them, but the fact is, that
the Ten Commandments are part of the Mosaic Law, which
is why they are repeated in Deuteronomy, where the Law
is summed up.
Some will try to separate "moral laws" from "ritual laws",
but again, there is no separation and God made no such
separation!
Some will try to claim that it is the punishments that are
no longer valid, but
that is like saying that now God says that it's okay to
break laws that are still in effect and that God has given
us a license to sin, since if the Law is still in effect,
then it is still sin to violate any one of them!
The Law says to be circumcised and that means that:
"For I testify again to every man that is circumcised,
that he is a debtor to do the WHOLE LAW." - Gal 5:3
And since that is the case...
"For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet
offend in one point, he is guilty OF ALL." - Jam 2:10
The fact is, that God has never once said (nor can
anyone support their claim with Scripture) that it
is okay to claim that we must keep part of the Law
and not the rest! Where did God *EVER* state
*THAT* attitude in Scripture?!
So we either keep the whole Law, which also means
performing animal sacrifices, since it is the Law that
that must be done when one sins and it means not
eating pork, etc., or you must decide that the Law
is no longer in effect!
So let's look at this and see where it leads us shall we? :)
Statement: The Gentile churches were given two rules
and two rules only. Neither of them was
obeying the Mosaic Law.
Objection: No, that is not right!
Response:
Yes, it is right!
"Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them,
which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:
But that we write unto them, that they abstain from
pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from
things strangled, and from blood." - Acts 15:19-20
Objection: The Law is still in place. Look at the
following passage:
"Exo 12:49 One law shall be to him that is homeborn,
and unto the stranger that sojourneth among you."
Response:
The Law was nailed to the cross with Christ. In fact,
the Bible says that very thing, very specifically. Yet
each time this is mentioned, you snip it and ignore it.
Nigh = Jews
Far off = Gentiles
Middle wall of partition/Enmity = Mosaic Law
Ephesians 13-17
13) But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes
were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
14) For he is our peace, who hath made both one,
and hath broken down the middle wall of partition
between us;
15) HAVING ABOLISHED in his flesh THE ENMITY,
even THE LAW of commandments contained in
ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one
new man, so making peace;
16) And that he might reconcile both unto God
in one body BY THE CROSS, having SLAIN THE
ENMITY thereby:
17) And came and preached peace to you which
were afar off, and to them that were nigh.
Now what does it say?
1) The Law is the enmity and the middle wall
of partition that divided Jews and Gentiles.
2) The enmity was the Law.
3) The Law was slain, by Christ, on the cross.
This was written to Gentiles.
Handwriting of ordinances = Mosaic Law
Principalities and powers = Mosaic Economy
Colossians 2:12-15
12) Buried with him in baptism, wherein also
ye are risen with him through the faith of the
operation of God, who hath raised him from
the dead.
13) And you, being dead in your sins and the
uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened
together with him, having forgiven you all
trespasses;
14) Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances
that was against us, which was contrary to us,
and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
15) And having spoiled principalities and powers,
he made a show of them openly, triumphing over
them in it.
Now what does it say?
1) It is by faith that they were saved, not works
of the Law.
2) The Law was nailed to the cross with Christ.
3) It was the very system some are trying to
keep people under, that He triumphed over.
"The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin
is the law." - 1 Corinthians 15:56
"For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made
me free from the law of sin and death." - Romans 8:2
Galatians 4:21-31
21) Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law,
do ye not hear the law?
22) For it is written, that Abraham had two sons,
the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.
23) But he who was of the bondwoman was born
after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by
promise.
24) Which things are an allegory: for these are
the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai,
which engendereth to bondage, which is Hagar.
25) For this Hagar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and
answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in
bondage with her children.
26) But Jerusalem which is above is free, which
is the mother of us all.
27) For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that
bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that
travailest not; for the desolate hath many more
children than she which hath a husband.
28) Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the
children of promise.
29) But as then he that was born after the flesh
persecuted him that was born after the Spirit,
even so it is now.
30) Nevertheless what saith the Scripture? Cast
out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of
the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son
of the freewoman.
31) So then, brethren, we are not children of
the bondwoman, but of the free.
Christians are not children of the bondwoman.
So you can go to the Old Testament all you want
and try to make it trump the New Testament and
contradict it, but it won't work and you do it at
your own peril!
We have the Law being abolished, nailed to the cross,
cast out as the bondwoman, powerless to save anyone
and yet, through all of this Scripture, some won't
believe it.
And whether you believe it or not, the Ten Commandments
are part of the Law and the above passages even mention
"Sinai". So don't hand me that, "The Ten Commandments
are separate" idea, because it just doesn't work!
Some want to pick the laws that they like and claim that
if people don't place themselves under those laws and
also say that's what saves them or condemns them,
that they are not Christians!
But in reality, they, who claim this Law which is dead
to be alive, refuse to follow all of it and that makes
them hypocrites and a liars!
But you see, you Futurists cannot resolve this issue
and argue amongst yourselves, not because either
one of you is right, but because you do not understand
the simple fact that Jesus did return within the same
generation as He said He would and the destruction
of the Mosaic Economy, which included the Temple
being torn down stone by stone, as Jesus said,
in 70 AD, that the Law is gone and simply does not
apply any more, period!!!
--
"The religion that does not begin at home, does not begin"
- Adrian Rogers
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| User: "Zadok" |
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| Title: Re: Nailed to the Cross: The Law is Gone!!! |
29 Jan 2008 07:46:46 AM |
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"Pasta Davey Boy" <> wrote in message ...
Jesus said the that until heaven and earth pass and
*ALL* was fulfilled, which I believe happened already,
being symbolic statements of the Temple system
(history bears this out), not one dot, nor one stroke
of the Law would pass. So either this has happened,
or *ALL* of the Law still stands and is in full force!
Until you can show us where Heaven and Earth passes away,
you continue to blow wind. And you know perfectly well,
that the temple system did not pass away until the temple was
destroyed in 70AD. Thus you saying that the temple system
ended at the cross is *****!!
Now some will try to separate off the Ten Commandments
and claim that we must follow them, but the fact is, that
the Ten Commandments are part of the Mosaic Law, which
is why they are repeated in Deuteronomy, where the Law
is summed up.
All of the law does still exist, and if you worship the Jewish God,
then the law exists for you.
To claim that it does not, is nothing but following the words of
the apostate Saulus (Paul).
To prove that, we have to examine what became of the church Jesus
founded.
The Gospel of Thomas has this interesting statement -
12. The disciples said to Jesus, "We know that you are going to leave us.
Who will be our leader?"
Jesus said to them, "No matter where you are you are to go to James the
Just,
for whose sake heaven and earth came into being."
Of course you clowns will say that is not in the bible.
But who cares what you say. Eusebius in his church history confirms that -
Book 7, 19 - The throne of James - who was the first to receive from the
SAVIOUR
AND HIS APOSTLES the episcopacy of the Jerusalem church, and was called
Christ's
brother, as the sacred books show...
And what does the bible say about this church??
Acts 21 tells us -
Verses 18 to 21 -
18The next day Paul and the rest of us went to see James, and all the elders
were present.
19Paul greeted them and reported in detail what God had done among the
Gentiles through his ministry.
20When they heard this, they praised God. Then they said to Paul: "You see,
brother,
how many thousands of Jews have believed, and all of them are zealous for
the law.
Got that?? The early church headed by James, the Lord's brother were ZEALOUS
FOR THE LAW!!
So tell us Davey boy, why would the earliest church, the one actually
founded by Jesus Christ,
be zealous for the LAW, if the Law ended at the cross??
What, no answer??
that is like saying that now God says that it's okay to
break laws that are still in effect and that God has given
us a license to sin, since if the Law is still in effect,
then it is still sin to violate any one of them!
WOW!! I think you do understand it.
God gave us the law, and he soon found out that it was impossible
to keep the law perfectly. So he gave his son to die for us.
Because he knew we would need forgiveness.
But you religionist clowns say that Jesus died for our sins.
And that is right. Because no man could keep the law perfectly.
Thus Jesus' forgiveness is necessary for our short comings.
That does not negate the law.
It does you no good to quote Paul. Paul never knew Jesus, never met
Jesus, and never studied with Jesus.
What do apostles that actually knew Jesus say -
Matthew 19, has the man asking Jesus what he must do to have eternal
life. And Jesus tells him in verse 17
17And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but
one,
that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
What was that Davey boy?? KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS!!
Did John write after the CROSS??
What does he say?
John 14: 15 - If ye love me, keep my commandments.
How about Revelation 14: 12 -
Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments
of God,
and the faith of Jesus.
Now Davey you run off to Paul, who never knew Jesus, and quote him all you
want.
But what did Jesus himself say??
Matthew 15: 9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the
commandments of men.
Statement: The Gentile churches were given two rules
and two rules only. Neither of them was
obeying the Mosaic Law.
Jesus himself tells you that he was not sent to the gentiles -
Matthew 15: 24 - But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost
sheep of the house of Israel.
What ever happened to your idea of using scripture to interpret scripture.
Jesus tells you to whom he was sent. THE LOST SHEEP OF THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL!!
And where were these lost sheep. SCATTERED AMOUNG THE NATIONS!!
Ezekiel 36: 19 - And I scattered them among the heathen, and they were
dispersed through the countries: according to their way and according to
their doings I judged them.
And the final nail in your coffin is the words of Jesus actual apostles -
1 Peter 1: 1 - 1Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers
scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,
What?? Peter is writing to the strangers scattered??
James 1: 1 -
1James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes
which are scattered abroad, greeting.
WHAT?? To the twleve tribes, scattered??
You cannot show us where Jesus ever said to preach to the gentiles!!
THAT IS JUST A FACT!!
If you want to follow JESUS CRIST. then get circumcised, and follow the
LAW!!
IF you want to follow Saulus the apostate, then listen to the pasta man!!
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| User: "Reuben Hick" |
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| Title: Re: Nailed to the Cross: The Law is Gone!!! |
29 Jan 2008 08:08:19 AM |
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"Zadok" <nobler@accesswave.ca> wrote in message
news:a7Gnj.22058$vp3.11375@edtnps90...
"Pasta Davey Boy" <> wrote in message ...
Jesus said the that until heaven and earth pass and
*ALL* was fulfilled, which I believe happened already,
being symbolic statements of the Temple system
(history bears this out), not one dot, nor one stroke
of the Law would pass. So either this has happened,
or *ALL* of the Law still stands and is in full force!
Until you can show us where Heaven and Earth passes away,
you continue to blow wind. And you know perfectly well,
that the temple system did not pass away until the temple was
destroyed in 70AD. Thus you saying that the temple system
ended at the cross is *****!!
Now some will try to separate off the Ten Commandments
and claim that we must follow them, but the fact is, that
the Ten Commandments are part of the Mosaic Law, which
is why they are repeated in Deuteronomy, where the Law
is summed up.
All of the law does still exist, and if you worship the Jewish God,
then the law exists for you.
So the earth is still flat because some hangers-on believe that it does.
Same logic.
You would almost have a case except the Temple was predicted to be destroyed
and finally was. But before it was destroyed it was already called Ichabod
by God over five hundred years before the Messiah's incarnation. God told
His prophets that He would no longer hear their prayers and Jeremiah tells
us that God divorced Israel and Judah.
And please, when was the last time Jews had that temple blood sacrifice?
I mean, tell me when was the last time any high priest of the Levitcal order
(do you even know anyone who is a legitimate Levite anymore?) sent out the
scapegoat and went into the Holy of Holies to sprinkle the blood sacrifice
on the seat of the Ark of the Covenant? And why do Jews wail at the
foundation wall of the Roman Fort Antonia?
So you have no God, your prayers aren't heard, your temple ceases to exist,
you don't even know where the temple mount even is, your land is occupied by
your enemy, you have none of the temple furniture, and no one actually
practices the sacrificial aspects of the Law - which makes everything moot
if you have no atonement for your eons deep pile of accumulated sins.
No Jew has followed the Law in over twenty five hundred years.
Yet you claim the Law still exists.... (sigh)
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| User: "Zadok" |
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| Title: Re: Nailed to the Cross: The Law is Gone!!! |
29 Jan 2008 04:52:16 PM |
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"Reuben Hick" <> wrote in message ...
All of the law does still exist, and if you worship the Jewish God,
then the law exists for you.
So the earth is still flat because some hangers-on believe that it does.
Same logic.
You would almost have a case except the Temple was predicted to be
destroyed
and finally was. But before it was destroyed it was already called
Ichabod
by God over five hundred years before the Messiah's incarnation. God
told
His prophets that He would no longer hear their prayers and Jeremiah tells
us that God divorced Israel and Judah.
Jeremiah tells us something entirely different from what you say -
Jeremiah 31: 33 - But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the
house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in
their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and
they shall be my people.
And your buddy Saulus repeats that -
Hebrews 8: 10 - For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of
Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind,
and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall
be to me a people:
WOW!! The law will be wrutten in their hearts!!
Have you figured out the new covenant yet??
And please, when was the last time Jews had that temple blood sacrifice?
I mean, tell me when was the last time any high priest of the Levitcal
order
(do you even know anyone who is a legitimate Levite anymore?) sent out
the
scapegoat and went into the Holy of Holies to sprinkle the blood sacrifice
on the seat of the Ark of the Covenant? And why do Jews wail at the
foundation wall of the Roman Fort Antonia?
If you had a clue, you would know that blood sacrifice only occured in the
temple in Jerusalem.
Without the temple there can be no blood sacrifice. Therefore the blood
sacrifices stopped in 70AD, not at any cross!!
No Jew has followed the Law in over twenty five hundred years.
Cute, but no basis in fact!!
Smile
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