| Topic: |
Religions > Bible |
| User: |
"Flowerchild" |
| Date: |
27 Oct 2005 12:08:29 AM |
| Object: |
Now was Then |
It Is Written, but seldom spoken:
Joh 12:31 Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of
this world be cast out.
Joh 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men
unto me.
JESUS said after he rose from the dead he would draw all men unto
him.
JESUS said the hour was at hand just before JESUS was crucified and
rose from the dead, and JESUS said " Now is the judgment of this
world". Now was Then, and judgement had come.
From "The Big Picture made small", the story of what was, and what was
shortly to come; "The Revelation" :
Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the
time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest
give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them
that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which
destroy the earth.
Joh 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now
is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that
hear shall live.
Notice JESUS said "and now is". Now was then, and the dead heard
his vioce.
Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and
hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged
every man according to their works.
Some say "the devil has not been defeated yet!"...But what does the
Bible say:
Mat 12:40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's
belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the
heart of the earth.
We know that Jesus was not speaking of being buried in the ground,
for he was laid in a tomb above ground. He was speaking of descending
into the heart of the earth to get the keys of hell and death and
defeat the devil:
Rev 1:18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for
evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.
Do you think the devil just said "OK, here ya go!"...Not!. Jesus
bound the devil, the fact that he rose from the dead was the proof:
Heb 2:14-16 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and
blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through
death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the
devil; And deliver them who through fear of death were all their
lifetime subject to bondage. For verily he took not on him the nature
of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
By rising from the dead, JESUS had defeated the devil.
This was a major reason Christ had to put on flesh, to die, and to
rise from the dead; to have victory over hell, death, and the devil. I
know it may come as a suprise, but VICTORY has been had, and JESUS was
victorious. And he lives forever more victorious, Now and forever.
Mar 3:27 No man can enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his
goods, except he will first bind the strong man; and then he will spoil
his house.
Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is
the second death.
_______Flowerchild
Download a FREE e-Bible from www.e-sword.net . It works on/off line
and has many helpful features. Most any version/language, most helpful.
the Sword of the Lord with an electronic edge.
Dear Person... He wants to tell you something:
http://www.homewithgod.com/Cards/fathersloveletter.shtml ( FREE video
presentation )
My website: www.angelfire.com/oz2/shaqad
.
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| User: "Pastor Dave" |
|
| Title: Re: Now was Then |
27 Oct 2005 09:47:45 AM |
|
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On 26 Oct 2005 22:08:29 -0700, "Flowerchild"
<shaqad@netzero.com> spake thusly:
Heb 2:14-16 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and
blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through
death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the
devil; And deliver them who through fear of death were all their
lifetime subject to bondage. For verily he took not on him the nature
of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
By rising from the dead, JESUS had defeated the devil.
This was a major reason Christ had to put on flesh, to die, and to
rise from the dead; to have victory over hell, death, and the devil. I
know it may come as a suprise, but VICTORY has been had, and JESUS was
victorious. And he lives forever more victorious, Now and forever.
Mar 3:27 No man can enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his
goods, except he will first bind the strong man; and then he will spoil
his house.
If only people would read these verses carefully.
It says clearly that it was His death and resurrection that
defeated the Devil. Jesus died and rose and still that's
not good enough for them. It says right there, that they
were freed.
I believe however, that this is speaking of those who had
already died. It talks about "those who were", past tense.
This is when Satan was tossed out of Heaven. Revelation 13
shows us this and says that Satan came down to the Earth
and had but a short time.
James also said, "Resist the Devil and he will flee...".
Satan had no power against the saints.
So the victory was won and he was cast out of Heaven
and then he had but a short time, which was from Christ's
ascension until His return in 70 AD.
Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is
the second death.
See above.
--
Pastor Dave
1st Century Church of Christ
The end timers believe in a literal, physical
New Jerusalem. But is that what Scripture teaches?
No, it doesn't! So what is the New Jerusalem? It
is amazing what the end timers miss, especially
since it is stated clearly that the New Jerusalem
is the bride of Christ, the church.
Revelation 21:1,9-10
1) And I saw a new heaven and a new earth. For the
first heaven and the first earth had passed away.
9) And one of the seven angels who had the seven
vials full of the seven last plagues came to me and
talked with me, saying, Come here, I will show you
the bride, the Lamb's wife.
10) And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great
and high mountain and showed me that great city, the
holy Jerusalem, descending out of Heaven from God
.
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| User: "The Voice of Reason" |
|
| Title: Re: Re: Now was Then |
27 Oct 2005 11:58:55 AM |
|
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On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 14:47:45 GMT, Pastor Dave
<1news-group-mail1@nospam-tampa-bay.rr.com> wrote:
<> On 26 Oct 2005 22:08:29 -0700, "Flowerchild"
<> <shaqad@netzero.com> spake thusly:
<>
<>
<> >Heb 2:14-16 Forasmuch then as the children are
partakers of flesh and
<> >blood, he also himself likewise took part of
the same; that through
<> >death he might destroy him that had the power
of death, that is, the
<> >devil; And deliver them who through fear of
death were all their
<> >lifetime subject to bondage. For verily he
took not on him the nature
<> >of angels; but he took on him the seed of
Abraham.
<> >
<> > By rising from the dead, JESUS had defeated
the devil.
<> > This was a major reason Christ had to put on
flesh, to die, and to
<> >rise from the dead; to have victory over hell,
death, and the devil. I
<> >know it may come as a suprise, but VICTORY has
been had, and JESUS was
<> >victorious. And he lives forever more
victorious, Now and forever.
<> >
<> >Mar 3:27 No man can enter into a strong man's
house, and spoil his
<> >goods, except he will first bind the strong
man; and then he will spoil
<> >his house.
<>
<> If only people would read these verses
carefully.
<>
<> It says clearly that it was His death and
resurrection that
<> defeated the Devil. Jesus died and rose and
still that's
<> not good enough for them. It says right there,
that they
<> were freed.
<>
<> I believe however, that this is speaking of
those who had
<> already died. It talks about "those who were",
past tense.
<>
<> This is when Satan was tossed out of Heaven.
Revelation 13
<> shows us this and says that Satan came down to
the Earth
<> and had but a short time.
<>
<> James also said, "Resist the Devil and he will
flee...".
<> Satan had no power against the saints.
<>
<> So the victory was won and he was cast out of
Heaven
<> and then he had but a short time, which was
from Christ's
<> ascension until His return in 70 AD.
<>
<>
<> >Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into
the lake of fire. This is
<> >the second death.
<>
<> See above.
"Once upon a time, there were three bears. ..."
.
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| User: "Flowerchild" |
|
| Title: Re: Now was Then |
27 Oct 2005 11:08:29 PM |
|
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Pastor Dave wrote:
On 26 Oct 2005 22:08:29 -0700, "Flowerchild"
<shaqad@netzero.com> spake thusly:
Heb 2:14-16 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and
blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through
death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the
devil; And deliver them who through fear of death were all their
lifetime subject to bondage. For verily he took not on him the nature
of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
By rising from the dead, JESUS had defeated the devil.
This was a major reason Christ had to put on flesh, to die, and to
rise from the dead; to have victory over hell, death, and the devil. I
know it may come as a suprise, but VICTORY has been had, and JESUS was
victorious. And he lives forever more victorious, Now and forever.
Mar 3:27 No man can enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his
goods, except he will first bind the strong man; and then he will spoil
his house.
If only people would read these verses carefully.
It says clearly that it was His death and resurrection that
defeated the Devil. Jesus died and rose and still that's
not good enough for them. It says right there, that they
were freed.
I believe however, that this is speaking of those who had
already died. It talks about "those who were", past tense.
I agree that as judgement had come, first all the dead who were in
their graves when Christ rose from the dead were judged and now it is
that all who die enter into judgement immediately as judgement had
begun when Christ ascended.
This is when Satan was tossed out of Heaven. Revelation 13
shows us this and says that Satan came down to the Earth
and had but a short time.
I agree, first Jesus seen him falling, then said "now the prince of
the world shall be cast out", when he rose from the dead. If he was the
"prince of this world", he was cast out of this world, and as Jesus
rose from the dead the devil was defeated just as Hebrews 2 14-16
reveals.
James also said, "Resist the Devil and he will flee...".
Satan had no power against the saints.
So the victory was won and he was cast out of Heaven
and then he had but a short time, which was from Christ's
ascension until His return in 70 AD.
--
Pastor Dave
1st Century Church of Christ
The end timers believe in a literal, physical
New Jerusalem. But is that what Scripture teaches?
No, it doesn't! So what is the New Jerusalem? It
is amazing what the end timers miss, especially
since it is stated clearly that the New Jerusalem
is the bride of Christ, the church.
Revelation 21:1,9-10
1) And I saw a new heaven and a new earth. For the
first heaven and the first earth had passed away.
9) And one of the seven angels who had the seven
vials full of the seven last plagues came to me and
talked with me, saying, Come here, I will show you
the bride, the Lamb's wife.
10) And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great
and high mountain and showed me that great city, the
holy Jerusalem, descending out of Heaven from God
I had the same dream John had, I seen the Holy City in a dream. ( I
wrote a song about my dream called "Shiny City"). Strange thing...I
have just begun to see it. I have a study in the mix and will soon
present it.
It is the place Christ has prepared for us, and is prepared as a bride
to revieve us.
See ya under the talking Tree, by the singing water.
This great book of Revelation is very symbolic indeed brother. It's
like a Big Picture made symbolically short.
Flowerchild
.
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| User: "Pastor Dave" |
|
| Title: Re: Now was Then |
28 Oct 2005 01:41:23 PM |
|
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On 27 Oct 2005 21:08:29 -0700, "Flowerchild"
<shaqad@netzero.com> spake thusly:
Pastor Dave wrote:
On 26 Oct 2005 22:08:29 -0700, "Flowerchild"
<shaqad@netzero.com> spake thusly:
Heb 2:14-16 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and
blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through
death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the
devil; And deliver them who through fear of death were all their
lifetime subject to bondage. For verily he took not on him the nature
of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
By rising from the dead, JESUS had defeated the devil.
This was a major reason Christ had to put on flesh, to die, and to
rise from the dead; to have victory over hell, death, and the devil. I
know it may come as a suprise, but VICTORY has been had, and JESUS was
victorious. And he lives forever more victorious, Now and forever.
Mar 3:27 No man can enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his
goods, except he will first bind the strong man; and then he will spoil
his house.
If only people would read these verses carefully.
It says clearly that it was His death and resurrection that
defeated the Devil. Jesus died and rose and still that's
not good enough for them. It says right there, that they
were freed.
I believe however, that this is speaking of those who had
already died. It talks about "those who were", past tense.
I agree that as judgement had come, first all the dead who were in
their graves when Christ rose from the dead were judged and now it is
that all who die enter into judgement immediately as judgement had
begun when Christ ascended.
This is when Satan was tossed out of Heaven. Revelation 13
shows us this and says that Satan came down to the Earth
and had but a short time.
I agree, first Jesus seen him falling, then said "now the prince of
the world shall be cast out", when he rose from the dead. If he was the
"prince of this world", he was cast out of this world, and as Jesus
rose from the dead the devil was defeated just as Hebrews 2 14-16
reveals.
There was a time when you were adamantly opposed to
the things I said. I am glad that you have resolved to
study your Bible and have seen the truth within it! For it
was not me who lead you here, but God. :)
--
Pastor Dave
1st Century Church of Christ
The end timers believe in a literal, physical
New Jerusalem. But is that what Scripture teaches?
No, it doesn't! So what is the New Jerusalem? It
is amazing what the end timers miss, especially
since it is stated clearly that the New Jerusalem
is the bride of Christ, the church.
Revelation 21:1,9-10
1) And I saw a new heaven and a new earth. For the
first heaven and the first earth had passed away.
9) And one of the seven angels who had the seven
vials full of the seven last plagues came to me and
talked with me, saying, Come here, I will show you
the bride, the Lamb's wife.
10) And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great
and high mountain and showed me that great city, the
holy Jerusalem, descending out of Heaven from God
.
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| User: "Pastor Dave" |
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| Title: Re: Now was Then |
31 Oct 2005 04:14:54 AM |
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On 27 Oct 2005 21:08:29 -0700, "Flowerchild"
<shaqad@netzero.com> spake thusly:
It seems that since our battles, you have been studying much
and I commend you! :)
It seems that now we agree on much. :)
Pastor Dave wrote:
On 26 Oct 2005 22:08:29 -0700, "Flowerchild"
<shaqad@netzero.com> spake thusly:
Heb 2:14-16 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and
blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through
death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the
devil; And deliver them who through fear of death were all their
lifetime subject to bondage. For verily he took not on him the nature
of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
By rising from the dead, JESUS had defeated the devil.
This was a major reason Christ had to put on flesh, to die, and to
rise from the dead; to have victory over hell, death, and the devil. I
know it may come as a suprise, but VICTORY has been had, and JESUS was
victorious. And he lives forever more victorious, Now and forever.
Mar 3:27 No man can enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his
goods, except he will first bind the strong man; and then he will spoil
his house.
If only people would read these verses carefully.
It says clearly that it was His death and resurrection that
defeated the Devil. Jesus died and rose and still that's
not good enough for them. It says right there, that they
were freed.
I believe however, that this is speaking of those who had
already died. It talks about "those who were", past tense.
I agree that as judgement had come, first all the dead who were in
their graves when Christ rose from the dead were judged and now it is
that all who die enter into judgement immediately as judgement had
begun when Christ ascended.
I wouldn't say, "judgment". That was reserved for 70 AD.
But in a sense, yes. :) And certainly spiritual judgment on
Satan, but actual (carried out completely) judgment hadn't.
This is when Satan was tossed out of Heaven. Revelation 13
shows us this and says that Satan came down to the Earth
and had but a short time.
I agree, first Jesus seen him falling, then said "now the prince of
the world shall be cast out", when he rose from the dead. If he was the
"prince of this world", he was cast out of this world, and as Jesus
rose from the dead the devil was defeated just as Hebrews 2 14-16
reveals.
I believe when He said "now", He was speaking of His
ascension, which was just a bit in the future, but since it
was as good as done, He said "now". But Revelation shows
that it happened when He took His throne, which according
to Daniel, was when He ascended (Daniel 7:13-14).
James also said, "Resist the Devil and he will flee...".
Satan had no power against the saints.
So the victory was won and he was cast out of Heaven
and then he had but a short time, which was from Christ's
ascension until His return in 70 AD.
--
Pastor Dave
1st Century Church of Christ
The end timers believe in a literal, physical
New Jerusalem. But is that what Scripture teaches?
No, it doesn't! So what is the New Jerusalem? It
is amazing what the end timers miss, especially
since it is stated clearly that the New Jerusalem
is the bride of Christ, the church.
Revelation 21:1,9-10
1) And I saw a new heaven and a new earth. For the
first heaven and the first earth had passed away.
9) And one of the seven angels who had the seven
vials full of the seven last plagues came to me and
talked with me, saying, Come here, I will show you
the bride, the Lamb's wife.
10) And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great
and high mountain and showed me that great city, the
holy Jerusalem, descending out of Heaven from God
I had the same dream John had, I seen the Holy City in a dream. ( I
wrote a song about my dream called "Shiny City"). Strange thing...I
have just begun to see it. I have a study in the mix and will soon
present it.
It is the place Christ has prepared for us, and is prepared as a bride
to revieve us.
No, it isn't. New Jerusalem IS US. It is NOT a literal
city. Read the passages above again. The angel is
showing John THE BRIDE and WE are the bride of
Christ.
--
Pastor Dave
1st Century Church of Christ
The end timers believe in a literal, physical
New Jerusalem. But is that what Scripture teaches?
No, it doesn't! So what is the New Jerusalem? It
is amazing what the end timers miss, especially
since it is stated clearly that the New Jerusalem
is the bride of Christ, the church.
Revelation 21:1,9-10
1) And I saw a new heaven and a new earth. For the
first heaven and the first earth had passed away.
9) And one of the seven angels who had the seven
vials full of the seven last plagues came to me and
talked with me, saying, Come here, I will show you
the bride, the Lamb's wife.
10) And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great
and high mountain and showed me that great city, the
holy Jerusalem, descending out of Heaven from God
.
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| User: "Saint Zombie" |
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| Title: Re: Now was Then |
29 Oct 2005 12:30:54 PM |
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On 26 Oct 2005 22:08:29 -0700, "Flowerchild" <shaqad@netzero.com>
wrote:
It Is Written, but seldom spoken:
Joh 12:31 Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of
this world be cast out.
Joh 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men
unto me.
That is expectantly what happened.
Joh 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now
is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that
hear shall live.
Notice JESUS said "and now is". Now was then, and the dead heard
his vioce.
Exactly.
Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and
hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged
every man according to their works.
Some say "the devil has not been defeated yet!"...But what does the
Bible say:
The "Devil" ("Satan") is not God. God made Satan, not the other way.
Mat 12:40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's
belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the
heart of the earth.
We know that Jesus was not speaking of being buried in the ground,
for he was laid in a tomb above ground. He was speaking of descending
into the heart of the earth to get the keys of hell and death and
defeat the devil:
Your thinking is focused on the Devil (Satan).
You make God look the same size as Satan.
That is the Christian agenda, to make Satan into their God.
Rev 1:18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for
evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.
Do you think the devil just said "OK, here ya go!"...Not!. Jesus
bound the devil, the fact that he rose from the dead was the proof:
Jesus bound who? Where and when?
Heb 2:14-16 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and
blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through
death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the
devil; And deliver them who through fear of death were all their
lifetime subject to bondage. For verily he took not on him the nature
of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
You mean like Hanukkah chapter 2? That chapter talks about Paul.
By rising from the dead, JESUS had defeated the devil.
You need to "delete" your church doctrine brainwashing.
This was a major reason Christ had to put on flesh, to die, and to
rise from the dead; to have victory over hell, death, and the devil. I
know it may come as a suprise, but VICTORY has been had, and JESUS was
victorious. And he lives forever more victorious, Now and forever.
Start over.... at step 1.
Mar 3:27 No man can enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his
goods, except he will first bind the strong man; and then he will spoil
his house.
Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is
the second death.
_______Flowerchild
.
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| User: "H.E. Eickleberry, Jr." |
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| Title: Re: Now was Then |
29 Oct 2005 11:23:39 PM |
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"Saint Zombie" <no.email@truth.org> wrote in message
news:qib7m1t3bm6peml77cnp09mjptm23jdmcr@4ax.com...
On 26 Oct 2005 22:08:29 -0700, "Flowerchild" <shaqad@netzero.com>
wrote:
[snip]
Joh 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now
is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that
hear shall live.
Notice JESUS said "and now is". Now was then, and the dead heard
his vioce.
Exactly.
Exactly wrong.
If it what "now," then it wasn't "coming;" and if it was "coming," then it
wasn't "now;" unless it was both now and coming.
Matthew documents "a" resurrection of the dead to close the Old Testament
age, but Paul, John, etc. refer to "the" resurrection which is yet to come.
Ike
--
Don't put a period where God put a question mark.
******************************
"The Character Map: An Introduction to the Introductions in Revelation" is
now available in hardcover, softcover, and ebook editions.
For a synopsis, author bio, an explanation of the real "code" in Revelation,
an excerpt, and links to major sales sites, visit
www.eickleberrybooks.com
******************************
Remove X from address to reply
.
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| User: "Saint Zombie" |
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| Title: Re: Now was Then |
30 Oct 2005 01:12:21 PM |
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On Sat, 29 Oct 2005 23:23:39 -0500, "H.E. Eickleberry, Jr."
<Xeickleberrybooks@comcast.net> wrote:
"Saint Zombie" <no.email@truth.org> wrote in message
news:qib7m1t3bm6peml77cnp09mjptm23jdmcr@4ax.com...
On 26 Oct 2005 22:08:29 -0700, "Flowerchild" <shaqad@netzero.com>
wrote:
[snip]
Joh 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now
is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that
hear shall live.
Notice JESUS said "and now is". Now was then, and the dead heard
his vioce.
Exactly.
Exactly wrong.
If it what "now," then it wasn't "coming;" and if it was "coming," then it
wasn't "now;" unless it was both now and coming.
Matthew documents "a" resurrection of the dead to close the Old Testament
age, but Paul, John, etc. refer to "the" resurrection which is yet to come.
Ike
You talk about things according to your book. Ok, Ok.. Ok.
John 6:51 (KJV)
I am the living bread which came down out of heaven. If anyone eats of
this bread, he will live forever. Yes, the bread which I will give for
the life of the world is my flesh."
You see something to happen in the future, and in the past.
Unfortunately, if you don't see it now, then you can't see it before.
.
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| User: "H.E. Eickleberry, Jr." |
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| Title: Re: Now was Then |
30 Oct 2005 09:38:49 PM |
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"Saint Zombie" <no.email@truth.org> wrote in message
news:o96am190bqai3lp02nu96q4o9fii5mdl7u@4ax.com...
On Sat, 29 Oct 2005 23:23:39 -0500, "H.E. Eickleberry, Jr."
<Xeickleberrybooks@comcast.net> wrote:
"Saint Zombie" <no.email@truth.org> wrote in message
news:qib7m1t3bm6peml77cnp09mjptm23jdmcr@4ax.com...
On 26 Oct 2005 22:08:29 -0700, "Flowerchild" <shaqad@netzero.com>
wrote:
[snip]
Joh 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now
is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that
hear shall live.
Notice JESUS said "and now is". Now was then, and the dead heard
his voice.
Exactly.
Exactly wrong.
If it what "now," then it wasn't "coming;" and if it was "coming," then it
wasn't "now;" unless it was both now and coming.
Matthew documents "a" resurrection of the dead to close the Old Testament
age, but Paul, John, etc. refer to "the" resurrection which is yet to
come.
Ike
You talk about things according to your book. Ok, Ok.. Ok.
No, I'm talking about things according to "THE" book.
"Now" is not "coming."
"Coming" is not "now."
Jesus was, along with everything else, a prophet, and spoke in the manner of
the prophets, being the Spirit, that is, the revealer, of all prophecy, as
per Ezekiel:
"There is an end; there is the end."
The prophets were dualistic. Jesus was dualistic. Take "was" to "is," and
"is" to "will be," and what one winds up with is triunism, as per the words
of the teacher:
"That which has been is now, and the which is to be has already become, and
God requires that which is past."
Such is the cyclic nature of prophecy.
John 6:51 (KJV)
I am the living bread which came down out of heaven. If anyone eats of
this bread, he will live forever. Yes, the bread which I will give for
the life of the world is my flesh."
You see something to happen in the future, and in the past.
Unfortunately, if you don't see it now, then you can't see it before.
But the eternal life that comes at the end of the story is the eternal life
that existed at the beginning of the story, and all who would enter
therein--past, present, and future--eat of the same bread.
Ike
--
Don't put a period where God put a question mark.
******************************
"The Character Map: An Introduction to the Introductions in Revelation" is
now one of Amazon's top 100 books on Bible prophecy and climbing.
For a synopsis, author bio, an explanation of the real "code" in Revelation,
an excerpt, and links to major sales sites, visit
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| User: "Flowerchild" |
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| Title: Re: Now was Then |
30 Oct 2005 10:01:17 PM |
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Now was Then:
Mat 27:50 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up
the ghost.
Mat 27:51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from
the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;
Mat 27:52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints
which slept arose,
Mat 27:53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went
into the holy city, and appeared unto many.
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| User: "H.E. Eickleberry, Jr." |
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| Title: Re: Now was Then |
30 Oct 2005 10:58:56 PM |
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"Flowerchild" <shaqad@netzero.com> wrote in message
news:1130731277.258774.180790@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Now was Then:
Mat 27:50 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up
the ghost.
Mat 27:51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from
the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;
Mat 27:52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints
which slept arose,
Mat 27:53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went
into the holy city, and appeared unto many.
And then Paul rebuked those who taught that the resurrection was past, not
understanding that "a" resurrection was not "the" resurrection.
There is a resurrection that "was," a resurrection that "is," and a
resurrection that "will be."
There was one at the close of the Old Testament period that occurred the
moment Jesus was crucified.
There is one that will occur at the end of the age of Gentiles. (John calls
this the first resurrection, not referring to the resurrection past.)
There is one that will occur at the conclusion of all things, after the
millennium. (John calls this the second resurrection, also not referring to
the resurrection past.)
Hence, Jesus was right, and you are wrong: "Now" is not "coming," and
"coming" is not "now," but what was now was "now," and what is coming "is
coming."
Ike
--
Don't put a period where God put a question mark.
******************************
"The Character Map: An Introduction to the Introductions in Revelation" is
now available in hardcover, softcover, and ebook editions.
For a synopsis, author bio, an explanation of the real "code" in Revelation,
an excerpt, and links to major sales sites, visit
www.eickleberrybooks.com
******************************
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| User: "Flowerchild" |
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| Title: Re: Now was Then |
30 Oct 2005 11:22:48 PM |
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H.E. Eickleberry, Jr. wrote:
"Flowerchild" <shaqad@netzero.com> wrote in message
news:1130731277.258774.180790@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Now was Then:
Mat 27:50 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up
the ghost.
Mat 27:51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from
the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;
Mat 27:52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints
which slept arose,
Mat 27:53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went
into the holy city, and appeared unto many.
And then Paul rebuked those who taught that the resurrection was past, not
understanding that "a" resurrection was not "the" resurrection.
A resurrection is a resurrection no matter how you look at it.
There is a resurrection that "was," a resurrection that "is," and a
resurrection that "will be."
There is a first, and a second. Thats it. They were first, all who die
after are second.
There was one at the close of the Old Testament period that occurred the
moment Jesus was crucified.
There is one that will occur at the end of the age of Gentiles. (John calls
this the first resurrection, not referring to the resurrection past.)
Present your scripture that says "end of the age of the Gentiles". Oh,
thats right, you do not present scripture to back up your claims, and
you snip it when one does. I believe John was indeed refering to the
first to rise, and first is first no matter how you look at it.
There is one that will occur at the conclusion of all things, after the
millennium. (John calls this the second resurrection, also not referring to
the resurrection past.)
Hence, Jesus was right, and you are wrong: "Now" is not "coming," and
"coming" is not "now," but what was now was "now," and what is coming "is
coming."
The dead rose then, the dead will rise again...when they die.
Ike
--
Don't put a period where God put a question mark.
******************************
"The Character Map: An Introduction to the Introductions in Revelation" is
now available in hardcover, softcover, and ebook editions.
For a synopsis, author bio, an explanation of the real "code" in Revelation,
an excerpt, and links to major sales sites, visit
www.eickleberrybooks.com
******************************
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| User: "H.E. Eickleberry, Jr." |
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| Title: Re: Now was Then |
31 Oct 2005 08:13:30 AM |
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"Flowerchild" <shaqad@netzero.com> wrote in message
news:1130736168.062643.291760@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
H.E. Eickleberry, Jr. wrote:
"Flowerchild" <shaqad@netzero.com> wrote in message
news:1130731277.258774.180790@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Now was Then:
Mat 27:50 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up
the ghost.
Mat 27:51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from
the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;
Mat 27:52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints
which slept arose,
Mat 27:53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went
into the holy city, and appeared unto many.
And then Paul rebuked those who taught that the resurrection was past,
not
understanding that "a" resurrection was not "the" resurrection.
A resurrection is a resurrection no matter how you look at it.
There is a resurrection that "was," a resurrection that "is," and a
resurrection that "will be."
There is a first, and a second. That's it. They were first, all who die
after are second.
Wrong again. Matthew documents the resurrection you just mentioned. That's
past.
John writes of two yet to come, splitting the details in two. He places one
resurrection at the end of the age, before the millennium. He places the
second at the end of all things, after the millennium. [See Rev 20:4-6]
Taken together with Matthew's past resurrection, that's was, is, and will
be.
There was one at the close of the Old Testament period that occurred the
moment Jesus was crucified.
There is one that will occur at the end of the age of Gentiles. (John
calls
this the first resurrection, not referring to the resurrection past.)
Present your scripture that says "end of the age of the Gentiles".
Have you not read Romans 11?
Oh,
that's right, you do not present scripture to back up your claims, and
you snip it when one does. I believe John was indeed referring to the
first to rise, and first is first no matter how you look at it.
John distinctly speaks of the first and second resurrections (which
reference, coming after Matthew's documentation, actually makes it the
second and third resurrections.)
See Rev 20:4-6.
John places one resurrection before the millennium. That's at the end of the
age of Gentiles.
John places one resurrection after the millennium. That's the summation of
all things.
There is one that will occur at the conclusion of all things, after the
millennium. (John calls this the second resurrection, also not referring
to
the resurrection past.)
Hence, Jesus was right, and you are wrong: "Now" is not "coming," and
"coming" is not "now," but what was now was "now," and what is coming "is
coming."
The dead rose then, the dead will rise again...when they die.
The dead in Christ will rise again at the end of the age.
The dead in general will rise again at the end of all things.
Thus saith John.
Ike
--
Don't put a period where God put a question mark.
******************************
"The Character Map: An Introduction to the Introductions in Revelation" is
now available in hardcover, softcover, and ebook editions.
For a synopsis, author bio, an explanation of the real "code" in Revelation,
an excerpt, and links to major sales sites, visit
www.eickleberrybooks.com
******************************
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| User: "Pastor Dave" |
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| Title: Re: Now was Then |
31 Oct 2005 04:10:20 AM |
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On 30 Oct 2005 21:22:48 -0800, "Flowerchild"
<shaqad@netzero.com> spake thusly:
And then Paul rebuked those who taught that the resurrection was past, not
understanding that "a" resurrection was not "the" resurrection.
A resurrection is a resurrection no matter how you look at it.
Just a little help for ya, brother. Here's a response I
posted to someone else, that I will paste in here, about
the "resurrection isn't past" verses they like to quote.
It's not addressed to you. As I said, I posted it to
someone else and I'm just pasting it in here as a help aid.
Help aid. Isn't that redundant? :)
Anyway... :)
The fact is, that Paul wrote that BEFORE 70 AD.
The fact is, that when you read that text as if it applies
to you, you are saying that the Bible was written just
yesterday, just for you.
The fact is, that the early church knew Jesus returned
in 70 AD and that it is YOUR belief that is heresy and it
has only been around for a couple of centuries, starting
with Darby making what you believe popular, which is
based on Dispensationalism. So get your facts straight,
before claiming that I am a heretic.
The ONLY thing that can be said by reading those passages,
is that the event was still in the future, AT THE TIME IT
WAS WRITTEN. That does NOT mean that you can zoom
ahead almost 2,000 years and claim that it is still in the
future now.
If Jesus returned tomorrow, would you hold your Bible up to
Him and tell Him that He can't really be here, because your
Bible says so? Of course not! So the texts have a limited
time frame, don't they? Yes, of course they do. :)
You also fail to understand a simple bit of logic. And
since you are obviously implying that YOU are reading
the texts HONESTLY (and I believe you are probably
sincere), I DO EXPECT A POINT BY POINT, HONEST
response to my message here.
Paul wrote that the resurrection had not happened AT
THE TIME OF HIS WRITING. Nowhere does he say,
"And apply this passage thousands of years from now".
The letters were ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS that either
someone wrote to Paul about, or he had heard that a
false teaching was being taught and knew it needed
addressing. That means someone wrote to him (or face
to face), asking him about the teachings of some people
that came into the church, who taught that the
resurrection had already passed as well as other
things. So Paul wrote to Timothy and sent him to
correct some false teachings, IN THE FIRST CENTURY.
Now let's examine this and see if your view makes sense,
that view being a world wide, physical and visible
resurrection, that we would all see, given what the text
that Paul wrote says and what they must have said, or
written to him and I will begin, by asking you a question,
that I am requesting an honest and direct answer to
and your level of honesty and integrity will be determined
by how you respond to this question and the points
I make after it, since you certainly can't claim to be
honest and knowledgeable about what the Bible says,
if you are avoiding dealing with them. :)
Let me ask you a question... If the resurrection is
going to be a world wide event, that will be physically
seen, with Christ physically and visibly returning, why
would anyone have written to Paul about whether or not
the resurrection had already happened? Why would they
even have listened to these teachers? Surely they
would just say...
"You're nuts! The whole world is going to see it. How
could it have happened already?"
When people tell YOU that Christ has returned already,
YOU tell them they're wrong. Do you go to the Bishops
and ask them about it? No. Neither would these people
have done that, *_IF_* they believed that it was a
world wide, visible and physical event. They would not
have bothered to write to Paul about this.
You see, this is the part that you don't get. There
would have been nothing for Timothy to go and correct,
if they had been taught that it was to be a world wide,
physical and visible event. Because *IF* that's what
they were taught, they would have known that there was
NO WAY they could have missed it. And they would not
have been asking Paul, because if they were taught all
of the stuff that you would claim they were taught, they
would have figured he'd be gone to heaven already.
So he wouldn't be there to get the letter, nor to talk
to anyone face to face.
Thus, the obvious and logical conclusion, is that they
did NOT believe it to be such and were NOT taught that
it was. Rather, they were taught that it was a
spiritual event and not one visible with the naked eye.
As I said, if the resurrection happened tomorrow and
Jesus returned for the whole world to see, would you
hold up that passage to Him and tell Him that the
resurrection could not be happening, because Paul
said so?
You see, you fail to understand that the texts have a
time frame. Once that time frame has passed, they are
fulfilled. When Paul wrote what he wrote, it was still
in the future and had not passed, AT THE TIME HE
WROTE THAT. Nowhere do we find the words, "and
it won't happen for thousands of years yet". That is
YOUR ADDITION to his words.
So don't try to quote Scriptures here and claim that
they say that the events are still in the future. They
were definitely in the future TO THE WRITER. That
does not mean that they are in OUR future.
You are also forgetting Revelation 20:11-15.
John is seeing this in Heaven. The book is opened and
everyone is judged. So how is it a literal, physical event
ON EARTH?
The fact is, you cannot use that text to show that it has
not happened yet.
There is a resurrection that "was," a resurrection that "is," and a
resurrection that "will be."
There is a first, and a second. Thats it. They were first, all who die
after are second.
This subject gets confusing, but you are in the right
direction. :)
There was one at the close of the Old Testament period that occurred the
moment Jesus was crucified.
There is one that will occur at the end of the age of Gentiles. (John calls
this the first resurrection, not referring to the resurrection past.)
Present your scripture that says "end of the age of the Gentiles". Oh,
thats right, you do not present scripture to back up your claims, and
you snip it when one does. I believe John was indeed refering to the
first to rise, and first is first no matter how you look at it.
Actually, what he's probably referring to is where it is
stated that "the fullness of the Gentiles" had to "come in".
He is right there, but that was the years following the
first 3 1/2 after Jesus' ascension, which finished Daniel's
70th week and closed that prophecy as fulfilled. From
that point, until 70 AD, was "the time of the Gentiles".
There is one that will occur at the conclusion of all things, after the
millennium. (John calls this the second resurrection, also not referring to
the resurrection past.)
Hence, Jesus was right, and you are wrong: "Now" is not "coming," and
"coming" is not "now," but what was now was "now," and what is coming "is
coming."
The dead rose then, the dead will rise again...when they die.
Which is how they were "changed" and that's what Paul was
talking about. Death would be fully conquered and "death
and Hades" (not "Hell", as some translations have it) were
thrown into the lake of fire.
--
Pastor Dave
1st Century Church of Christ
The end timers believe in a literal, physical
New Jerusalem. But is that what Scripture teaches?
No, it doesn't! So what is the New Jerusalem? It
is amazing what the end timers miss, especially
since it is stated clearly that the New Jerusalem
is the bride of Christ, the church.
Revelation 21:1,9-10
1) And I saw a new heaven and a new earth. For the
first heaven and the first earth had passed away.
9) And one of the seven angels who had the seven
vials full of the seven last plagues came to me and
talked with me, saying, Come here, I will show you
the bride, the Lamb's wife.
10) And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great
and high mountain and showed me that great city, the
holy Jerusalem, descending out of Heaven from God
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| User: "Saint Zombie" |
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| Title: Re: Now was Then |
04 Nov 2005 09:16:18 PM |
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On Sun, 30 Oct 2005 22:58:56 -0600, "H.E. Eickleberry, Jr."
<Xeickleberrybooks@comcast.net> wrote:
And then Paul rebuked those who taught that the resurrection was past, not
understanding that "a" resurrection was not "the" resurrection.
Wow. Thanks for the tip. :-)
Paul the founder of "Christianity", denied the resurrection.
That pretty much explains his character.
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| User: "H.E. Eickleberry, Jr." |
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| Title: Re: Now was Then |
04 Nov 2005 11:21:13 PM |
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"Saint Zombie" <no.email@truth.org> wrote in message
news:qp8om11ai8oghk8mv901c58sgdus95kism@4ax.com...
On Sun, 30 Oct 2005 22:58:56 -0600, "H.E. Eickleberry, Jr."
<Xeickleberrybooks@comcast.net> wrote:
And then Paul rebuked those who taught that the resurrection was past, not
understanding that "a" resurrection was not "the" resurrection.
Wow. Thanks for the tip. :-)
Paul the founder of "Christianity", denied the resurrection.
That pretty much explains his character.
You're such a clueless dweeb.
Of course Paul never denied the resurrection.
John and Paul both spoke of the resurrection future.
Of course, if you had come in at the beginning of the conversation, Jesus
spoke of a resurrection as "now" (which occurred at His crucifixion) and "is
to come" (for which we're still waiting).
Ike
--
Don't put a period where God put a question mark.
******************************
"The Character Map: An Introduction to the Introductions in Revelation" is
now available in hardcover, softcover, and ebook editions.
For a synopsis, author bio, an explanation of the real "code" in Revelation,
an excerpt, and links to major sales sites, visit
www.eickleberrybooks.com
******************************
Remove X from address to reply
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| User: "Saint Zombie" |
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| Title: Re: Now was Then |
05 Nov 2005 02:56:13 PM |
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On Fri, 4 Nov 2005 23:21:13 -0600, "H.E. Eickleberry, Jr."
<Xeickleberrybooks@comcast.net> wrote:
"Saint Zombie" <no.email@truth.org> wrote in message
news:qp8om11ai8oghk8mv901c58sgdus95kism@4ax.com...
On Sun, 30 Oct 2005 22:58:56 -0600, "H.E. Eickleberry, Jr."
<Xeickleberrybooks@comcast.net> wrote:
And then Paul rebuked those who taught that the resurrection was past, not
understanding that "a" resurrection was not "the" resurrection.
Wow. Thanks for the tip. :-)
Paul the founder of "Christianity", denied the resurrection.
That pretty much explains his character.
You're such a clueless dweeb.
.... and excessive religious pride is one of your attributes.
Of course Paul never denied the resurrection.
That's because he was "left behind".
John and Paul both spoke of the resurrection future.
Talk is cheap. And a lack of evidence is considered irrelevant.
Of course, if you had come in at the beginning of the conversation, Jesus
spoke of a resurrection as "now" (which occurred at His crucifixion) and "is
to come" (for which we're still waiting).
Ike
You mean the 2nd death "resurrection" that is mentioned in Revelation.
Is that what you're waiting for?
1st John 5:13 (KJV)
These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the
Son of God; that ye may know that ye *HAVE* eternal life, and that ye
may believe on the name of the Son of God.
Obviously, you lack eternal "life".
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| User: "H.E. Eickleberry, Jr." |
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| Title: Re: Now was Then |
05 Nov 2005 04:22:49 PM |
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"Saint Zombie" <no.email@truth.org> wrote in message
news:lf6qm119i5j0bvjpoa0t05s6gknnajoni2@4ax.com...
On Fri, 4 Nov 2005 23:21:13 -0600, "H.E. Eickleberry, Jr."
<Xeickleberrybooks@comcast.net> wrote:
"Saint Zombie" <no.email@truth.org> wrote in message
news:qp8om11ai8oghk8mv901c58sgdus95kism@4ax.com...
On Sun, 30 Oct 2005 22:58:56 -0600, "H.E. Eickleberry, Jr."
<Xeickleberrybooks@comcast.net> wrote:
And then Paul rebuked those who taught that the resurrection was past,
not
understanding that "a" resurrection was not "the" resurrection.
Wow. Thanks for the tip. :-)
Paul the founder of "Christianity", denied the resurrection.
That pretty much explains his character.
You're such a clueless dweeb.
... and excessive religious pride is one of your attributes.
No, but pride of knowledge is, for better and for worse.
Of course Paul never denied the resurrection.
That's because he was "left behind".
John and Paul both spoke of the resurrection future.
Talk is cheap. And a lack of evidence is considered irrelevant.
Of course, if you had come in at the beginning of the conversation, Jesus
spoke of a resurrection as "now" (which occurred at His crucifixion) and
"is
to come" (for which we're still waiting).
Ike
You mean the 2nd death "resurrection" that is mentioned in Revelation.
Which would be the resurrection that "will be," in contrast to the
resurrections that "were" and "are."
Is that what you're waiting for?
I'm not "waiting" for anything. It is already at the door.
1st John 5:13 (KJV)
These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the
Son of God; that ye may know that ye *HAVE* eternal life, and that ye
may believe on the name of the Son of God.
Obviously, you lack eternal "life".
And obviously you don't know the first thing about prophecy, or you would
now the cyclic nature of events, that which was becoming that which is, that
which is becoming that which is to come, and that which is to come becoming
that which has always been.
Otherwise, you would understand Jesus' words and The Word.
Ike
--
Don't put a period where God put a question mark.
******************************
"The Character Map: An Introduction to the Introductions in Revelation" is
now available in hardcover, softcover, and ebook editions.
For a synopsis, author bio, an explanation of the real "code" in Revelation,
an excerpt, and links to major sales sites, visit
www.eickleberrybooks.com
******************************
Remove X from address to reply
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| User: "Saint Zombie" |
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| Title: Re: Now was Then |
05 Nov 2005 04:47:46 PM |
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On Sat, 5 Nov 2005 16:22:49 -0600, "H.E. Eickleberry, Jr."
<Xeickleberrybooks@comcast.net> wrote:
that which was becoming that which is, that which is becoming
that which is to come, and that which is to come becoming
that which has always been.
You mean like ... that which ... Ah forget it anyways.
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| User: "bill ramsay bill_dot_ramsay_at_clear_dot_net_dot_nz" |
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| Title: Re: Now was Then |
30 Oct 2005 10:37:20 PM |
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On 30 Oct 2005 20:01:17 -0800, "Flowerchild" <shaqad@netzero.com>
wrote:
Now was Then:
Mat 27:50 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up
the ghost.
Mat 27:51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from
the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;
Mat 27:52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints
which slept arose,
Mat 27:53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went
into the holy city, and appeared unto many.
we have a contradiction here between yourself and zombie, according
to him the dead are not dead, but according to you they are asleep.
which is it?
.
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| User: "Saint Zombie" |
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| Title: Re: Now was Then |
04 Nov 2005 08:47:23 PM |
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On Mon, 31 Oct 2005 17:37:20 +1300, bill ramsay
<bill_dot_ramsay_at_clear_dot_net_dot_nz> wrote:
On 30 Oct 2005 20:01:17 -0800, "Flowerchild" <shaqad@netzero.com>
wrote:
Now was Then:
Mat 27:50 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up
the ghost.
Mat 27:51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from
the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;
Mat 27:52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints
which slept arose,
Mat 27:53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went
into the holy city, and appeared unto many.
we have a contradiction here between yourself and zombie, according
to him the dead are not dead, but according to you they are asleep.
which is it?
The "contradiction" is of your own making due to your own ignorance.
You have confused the past, with the present.
You make a mockery of what happened about 2000 years ago.
.
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| User: "bill ramsay bill_dot_ramsay_at_clear_dot_net_dot_nz" |
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| Title: Re: Now was Then |
29 Oct 2005 03:39:08 PM |
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That is expectantly what happened.
Joh 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now
is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that
hear shall live.
Notice JESUS said "and now is". Now was then, and the dead heard
his vioce.
Exactly.
So how does that work 'exactly', this dead people hearing things?
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| User: "BoD ! © 2005" |
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| Title: Re: Now was Then |
29 Oct 2005 05:56:31 PM |
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"bill ramsay" <bill_dot_ramsay_at_clear_dot_net_dot_nz> wrote in message
news:7en7m11t7ajnbpg3md4sh5c7t4sdlml7dj@4ax.com...
That is expectantly what happened.
Joh 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now
is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that
hear shall live.
Notice JESUS said "and now is". Now was then, and the dead heard
his vioce.
Exactly.
So how does that work 'exactly', this dead people hearing things?
Now was then.
Now is this moment
Now is the eternal moment
Now has been
Now will be
Now is !
Jesus was born Now.
Jesus died on the cross Now.
NOW IS ! ETERNAL !
None of you have a clue what
NOW ! IS !
NOW IS NOW"
ALWAYS HAS BEEN
ALWAYS WILL BE !
NOW DO YOU ALL
GET IT !
NOW IS COMMING
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| User: "bill ramsay bill_dot_ramsay_at_clear_dot_net_dot_nz" |
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| Title: Re: Now was Then |
29 Oct 2005 06:04:00 PM |
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On Sat, 29 Oct 2005 22:56:31 GMT, "BoD ! © 2005"
<BoD@The-House-of-God.org> wrote:
"bill ramsay" <bill_dot_ramsay_at_clear_dot_net_dot_nz> wrote in message
news:7en7m11t7ajnbpg3md4sh5c7t4sdlml7dj@4ax.com...
That is expectantly what happened.
Joh 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now
is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that
hear shall live.
Notice JESUS said "and now is". Now was then, and the dead heard
his vioce.
Exactly.
So how does that work 'exactly', this dead people hearing things?
Now was then.
Now is this moment
Now is the eternal moment
Now has been
Now will be
Now is !
Jesus was born Now.
Jesus died on the cross Now.
NOW IS ! ETERNAL !
None of you have a clue what
NOW ! IS !
NOW IS NOW"
ALWAYS HAS BEEN
ALWAYS WILL BE !
NOW DO YOU ALL
GET IT !
NOW IS COMMING
so how does that answer the question i asked orginally
So how does that work 'exactly', this dead people hearing things?
.
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| User: "Saint Zombie" |
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| Title: Re: Now was Then |
29 Oct 2005 05:53:03 PM |
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On Sun, 30 Oct 2005 09:39:08 +1300, bill ramsay
<bill_dot_ramsay_at_clear_dot_net_dot_nz> wrote:
That is expectantly what happened.
Joh 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now
is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that
hear shall live.
Notice JESUS said "and now is". Now was then, and the dead heard
his vioce.
Exactly.
So how does that work 'exactly', this dead people hearing things?
You see life in the flesh. That's where you error.
John 5:25 (KJV)
Most assuredly, I tell you, the hour comes, and now is, when the dead
will hear the Son of God's voice; and those who hear will live.
1st John 2:16 (KJV)
For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, the lust of the
eyes, and the pride of life, isn't the Father's, but is the world's.
.
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| User: "bill ramsay bill_dot_ramsay_at_clear_dot_net_dot_nz" |
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| Title: Re: Now was Then |
29 Oct 2005 06:02:50 PM |
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On Sat, 29 Oct 2005 22:53:03 GMT, Saint Zombie <no.email@truth.org>
wrote:
On Sun, 30 Oct 2005 09:39:08 +1300, bill ramsay
<bill_dot_ramsay_at_clear_dot_net_dot_nz> wrote:
That is expectantly what happened.
Joh 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now
is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that
hear shall live.
Notice JESUS said "and now is". Now was then, and the dead heard
his vioce.
Exactly.
So how does that work 'exactly', this dead people hearing things?
You see life in the flesh. That's where you error.
John 5:25 (KJV)
Most assuredly, I tell you, the hour comes, and now is, when the dead
will hear the Son of God's voice; and those who hear will live.
1st John 2:16 (KJV)
For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, the lust of the
eyes, and the pride of life, isn't the Father's, but is the world's.
ok, so how does it work?
you haven't answered that point yet, you have provided a couple of
verses that say nothing on how the dead hear things.
.
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| User: "Saint Zombie" |
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| Title: Re: Now was Then |
29 Oct 2005 06:40:39 PM |
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On Sun, 30 Oct 2005 12:02:50 +1300, bill ramsay
<bill_dot_ramsay_at_clear_dot_net_dot_nz> wrote:
On Sat, 29 Oct 2005 22:53:03 GMT, Saint Zombie <no.email@truth.org>
wrote:
On Sun, 30 Oct 2005 09:39:08 +1300, bill ramsay
<bill_dot_ramsay_at_clear_dot_net_dot_nz> wrote:
That is expectantly what happened.
Joh 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now
is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that
hear shall live.
Notice JESUS said "and now is". Now was then, and the dead heard
his vioce.
Exactly.
So how does that work 'exactly', this dead people hearing things?
You see life in the flesh. That's where you error.
John 5:25 (KJV)
Most assuredly, I tell you, the hour comes, and now is, when the dead
will hear the Son of God's voice; and those who hear will live.
1st John 2:16 (KJV)
For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, the lust of the
eyes, and the pride of life, isn't the Father's, but is the world's.
ok, so how does it work?
you haven't answered that point yet, you have provided a couple of
verses that say nothing on how the dead hear things.
You call the "dead"... dead.
Then I guess John 5:25 does not mean a hill of beans to ya.
.
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| User: "bill ramsay bill_dot_ramsay_at_clear_dot_net_dot_nz" |
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| Title: Re: Now was Then |
29 Oct 2005 07:05:42 PM |
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On Sat, 29 Oct 2005 23:40:39 GMT, Saint Zombie <no.email@truth.org>
wrote:
On Sun, 30 Oct 2005 12:02:50 +1300, bill ramsay
<bill_dot_ramsay_at_clear_dot_net_dot_nz> wrote:
On Sat, 29 Oct 2005 22:53:03 GMT, Saint Zombie <no.email@truth.org>
wrote:
On Sun, 30 Oct 2005 09:39:08 +1300, bill ramsay
<bill_dot_ramsay_at_clear_dot_net_dot_nz> wrote:
That is expectantly what happened.
Joh 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now
is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that
hear shall live.
Notice JESUS said "and now is". Now was then, and the dead heard
his vioce.
Exactly.
So how does that work 'exactly', this dead people hearing things?
You see life in the flesh. That's where you error.
John 5:25 (KJV)
Most assuredly, I tell you, the hour comes, and now is, when the dead
will hear the Son of God's voice; and those who hear will live.
1st John 2:16 (KJV)
For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, the lust of the
eyes, and the pride of life, isn't the Father's, but is the world's.
ok, so how does it work?
you haven't answered that point yet, you have provided a couple of
verses that say nothing on how the dead hear things.
You call the "dead"... dead.
Then I guess John 5:25 does not mean a hill of beans to ya.
I'm sorry, but you are not making sense, yes the dead are dead, so
how does this process of the dead 'hearing' work?
john 5:25 just says that the dead will hear etc., I am just asking
how does this work? you have not answered that question yet.
so, how does it work?
.
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| User: "Saint Zombie" |
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| Title: Re: Now was Then |
29 Oct 2005 07:29:12 PM |
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On Sun, 30 Oct 2005 13:05:42 +1300, bill ramsay
<bill_dot_ramsay_at_clear_dot_net_dot_nz> wrote:
On Sat, 29 Oct 2005 23:40:39 GMT, Saint Zombie <no.email@truth.org>
wrote:
On Sun, 30 Oct 2005 12:02:50 +1300, bill ramsay
<bill_dot_ramsay_at_clear_dot_net_dot_nz> wrote:
On Sat, 29 Oct 2005 22:53:03 GMT, Saint Zombie <no.email@truth.org>
wrote:
On Sun, 30 Oct 2005 09:39:08 +1300, bill ramsay
<bill_dot_ramsay_at_clear_dot_net_dot_nz> wrote:
That is expectantly what happened.
Joh 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now
is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that
hear shall live.
Notice JESUS said "and now is". Now was then, and the dead heard
his vioce.
Exactly.
So how does that work 'exactly', this dead people hearing things?
You see life in the flesh. That's where you error.
John 5:25 (KJV)
Most assuredly, I tell you, the hour comes, and now is, when the dead
will hear the Son of God's voice; and those who hear will live.
1st John 2:16 (KJV)
For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, the lust of the
eyes, and the pride of life, isn't the Father's, but is the world's.
ok, so how does it work?
you haven't answered that point yet, you have provided a couple of
verses that say nothing on how the dead hear things.
You call the "dead"... dead.
Then I guess John 5:25 does not mean a hill of beans to ya.
I'm sorry, but you are not making sense, yes the dead are dead, so
how does this process of the dead 'hearing' work?
john 5:25 just says that the dead will hear etc., I am just asking
how does this work? you have not answered that question yet.
so, how does it work?
It work's even when you are alive.
.
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| User: "bill ramsay bill_dot_ramsay_at_clear_dot_net_dot_nz" |
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| Title: Re: Now was Then |
29 Oct 2005 07:44:03 PM |
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On Sun, 30 Oct 2005 00:29:12 GMT, Saint Zombie <no.email@truth.org>
wrote:
On Sun, 30 Oct 2005 13:05:42 +1300, bill ramsay
<bill_dot_ramsay_at_clear_dot_net_dot_nz> wrote:
On Sat, 29 Oct 2005 23:40:39 GMT, Saint Zombie <no.email@truth.org>
wrote:
On Sun, 30 Oct 2005 12:02:50 +1300, bill ramsay
<bill_dot_ramsay_at_clear_dot_net_dot_nz> wrote:
On Sat, 29 Oct 2005 22:53:03 GMT, Saint Zombie <no.email@truth.org>
wrote:
On Sun, 30 Oct 2005 09:39:08 +1300, bill ramsay
<bill_dot_ramsay_at_clear_dot_net_dot_nz> wrote:
That is expectantly what happened.
Joh 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now
is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that
hear shall live.
Notice JESUS said "and now is". Now was then, and the dead heard
his vioce.
Exactly.
So how does that work 'exactly', this dead people hearing things?
You see life in the flesh. That's where you error.
John 5:25 (KJV)
Most assuredly, I tell you, the hour comes, and now is, when the dead
will hear the Son of God's voice; and those who hear will live.
1st John 2:16 (KJV)
For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, the lust of the
eyes, and the pride of life, isn't the Father's, but is the world's.
ok, so how does it work?
you haven't answered that point yet, you have provided a couple of
verses that say nothing on how the dead hear things.
You call the "dead"... dead.
Then I guess John 5:25 does not mean a hill of beans to ya.
I'm sorry, but you are not making sense, yes the dead are dead, so
how does this process of the dead 'hearing' work?
john 5:25 just says that the dead will hear etc., I am just asking
how does this work? you have not answered that question yet.
so, how does it work?
It work's even when you are alive.
ok, so how does it work when you are dead? you seem to be evading the
question.
.
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