Pastor Dave Gets Under My Skin

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Topic:	Religions > Bible
User:	"sharon"
Date:	04 Dec 2003 09:51:44 PM
Object:	Pastor Dave Gets Under My Skin

PASTOR DAVE WROTE THE FOLLOWING.
On Mon, 15 Sep 2003 00:47:06 -0400, "sharon"
<*...@....com> wrote:

I recall some of you guys disputing whether or not electricity was only

real

in theory. Well evidently they've *seen* empirical evidence of electrons.
It's not a theory once it's seen and photographed.

http://www.berkeley.edu/news/media/releases/2001/06/20_physc.html

Image of the electron cloud around a nickle impurity in a high-temperature
superconductor, obtained with a scanning tunneling microscope. The central
spot is the nickle atom, surrounded by a cloverleaf pattern whose fourfold
symmetry is indicative of the underlying d-wave nature of the
high-temperature superconducting state.
PHOTO CREDIT: Seamus

No one has seen an electron and virtual particles are
imagination, at this point.
___
Pastor Dave Raymond
-----------------------------------------------------
Sharon:
I haven't seen you.
-- So, is it a theory or only a hypothesis, that you exist?
.

User: "H,R.Gruemm"
Title: Re: Pastor Dave Gets Under My Skin	05 Dec 2003 09:57:10 AM

"sharon" <*...@....com> wrote in message news:<0a72be73cc3f2c4ce3cdfef9b7360cc6@news.secureusenet.com>...

PASTOR DAVE WROTE THE FOLLOWING.

On Mon, 15 Sep 2003 00:47:06 -0400, "sharon"
<*...@....com> wrote:

I recall some of you guys disputing whether or not electricity was only

real

No one has seen an electron and virtual particles are
imagination, at this point.

*All* you see are electrons. What do you think emitted the photons
within the visual spectral range that your retina absorbs, if not
electrons ?
HRG.
.

User: "sharon"
Title: Re: Pastor Dave Gets Under My Skin	05 Dec 2003 01:03:13 PM

"H,R.Gruemm" <psychotech@xpoint.at> wrote in message
news:5662bb3.0312050757.4bb9978a@posting.google.com...

"sharon" <*...@....com> wrote in message

news:<0a72be73cc3f2c4ce3cdfef9b7360cc6@news.secureusenet.com>...

PASTOR DAVE WROTE THE FOLLOWING.

On Mon, 15 Sep 2003 00:47:06 -0400, "sharon"
<*...@....com> wrote:

I recall some of you guys disputing whether or not electricity was only

real

in theory. Well evidently they've *seen* empirical evidence of

electrons.

It's not a theory once it's seen and photographed.

http://www.berkeley.edu/news/media/releases/2001/06/20_physc.html

Image of the electron cloud around a nickle impurity in a

high-temperature

superconductor, obtained with a scanning tunneling microscope. The

central

spot is the nickle atom, surrounded by a cloverleaf pattern whose

fourfold

symmetry is indicative of the underlying d-wave nature of the
high-temperature superconducting state.
PHOTO CREDIT: Seamus

No one has seen an electron and virtual particles are
imagination, at this point.

*All* you see are electrons. What do you think emitted the photons
within the visual spectral range that your retina absorbs, if not
electrons ?

HRG.

How can Pastor Dave use the scientific method to test this "hypothesis"
about the existence of electrons? Will sticking his finger in an electric
outlet suffice? Or, should he go out in a lightning storm, holding up a
lightning rod?
Pastor Dave needs empirical evidence.
I'm content with my blind "faith", electrons exist, just as I'm content to
believe there is a man on usenet, who calls himself Pastor Dave, day after
day after day. We can safely assume, without need for actually seeing
him --- he exists. We see evidence when his posts come through.
Scientists have more than demonstrated the manipulation of electrons. When
something can be repeatedly demonstrated --- in a lab setting -- in our
everyday life, then it becomes an established fact... Einstein manipulated a
Hydrogen atom... and their work produced the anticipated outcome... it is
not "accidental" nor "coincidental" that I can stick my dryer into the 220
line, and it runs fine, but if I plug it into the 110 outlet, nothing
happens. There's reasons for that "phenomena".
An electrical engineers can explain that far better than I can.
.

User: "Red Dragon"
Title: Re: Pastor Dave Gets Under My Skin	06 Dec 2003 09:16:52 PM

What about Jesus? Did anybody or Pastor see Jesus?
What about God? Did any Pastor see God?
There are many persons, objects and things in this Universe we can never
see, but we know they exist for sure.
We are sure Gandhi existed. He is now in the form of fragmented Carbon
particles.
We are sure Galileo Galili existed. I saw his grave in Basilica Santa Cruz
Moses? Where is his grave?
Nobody has seen an Atom. The Atomic Bomb proves beyond doubt that it exist.
Nobody has seen a Black hole. Except for Einstein and Stephen Hawking.
They saw it in their mind.
Photon , proton, electron, neutron, meson, muon, neutrino, tau, nucleon,
pion, quark, baryon, lepton, hadron, gluon, etc etc.
Nobody has seen me, but of course I exist.
Khoon

No one has seen an electron and virtual particles are
imagination, at this point.

___

Pastor Dave Raymond

-----------------------------------------------------
Sharon:
I haven't seen you.
-- So, is it a theory or only a hypothesis, that you exist?

User: "sharon"
Title: Re: Pastor Dave Gets Under My Skin	06 Dec 2003 10:03:21 PM

"Red Dragon" <tasek@pc.jaring.my> wrote in message
news:bqu65r$grk$1@news5.jaring.my...

Cruz

Moses? Where is his grave?

Nobody has seen an Atom. The Atomic Bomb proves beyond doubt that it

exist.

Nobody has seen a Black hole. Except for Einstein and Stephen Hawking.
They saw it in their mind.
Photon , proton, electron, neutron, meson, muon, neutrino, tau, nucleon,
pion, quark, baryon, lepton, hadron, gluon, etc etc.
Nobody has seen me, but of course I exist.

Khoon

What about....
Original autographa (manuscripts written by Moses and the prophets)?
Did they exist in reality? We've never seen them.
Maybe the books of the Old Testament, were written around 700 BC, about
fictitional characters of Hebrew ethnicity, for whatever social/political
agenda.

No one has seen an electron and virtual particles are
imagination, at this point.

___

Pastor Dave Raymond

-----------------------------------------------------
Sharon:
I haven't seen you.
-- So, is it a theory or only a hypothesis, that you exist?

User: "David Grossmann"
Title: Re: Pastor Dave Gets Under My Skin	07 Dec 2003 10:57:12 AM

"sharon" <*...@....com> wrote in message news:<bba49210c6fa12b4b009e8f54562b79b@news.secureusenet.com>...

"Red Dragon" <tasek@pc.jaring.my> wrote in message
news:bqu65r$grk$1@news5.jaring.my...

Cruz

Moses? Where is his grave?

Nobody has seen an Atom. The Atomic Bomb proves beyond doubt that it

exist.

It is an invalid argument when one points to things that no one as
seen or personally observed to prove his unseen God. Just because no
one has seen Julius Ceasar does not prove elves exist. Just because no
one has seen an atom does not prove that the tooth fairy exists. Just
because no one has seen a quark does not mean Zeus and Aphrodite
exist. Just because no one has seen El Dorado does not argue for the
existence of Munchkins. We could go on and on and on. Just because
there are things invisible to humans does not "prove" the Bible God
Jehovah exists.
On the flip side, the fact we cannot see certain things doesn't
disprove the existence of those things or elves, tooth fairies,
Munchkins, Zeus or Jehovah. All these could conceivably exist in an
invisible condition. But that isn't a very strong reason to believe in
them. Most people are inherently skeptical of elves, tooth fairies,
Zeus and his son Hercules.
If someone used the argument that since we cannot see quarks and yet
believe they exist so we should extend the same line of reasoning to
elves, tooth fairies, Zeus and other Gods of ancient days most would
spot the fallacy at once. It is the kind of argument that proves
little either way. I don't use it for that reason.
.

User: "Red Dragon"
Title: Pastor Dave does not get, repeat, does not get Under My Skin	07 Dec 2003 07:14:09 AM

I need to point out that the earlier heading was not my doing. I have no
problem with any Pastor.
Khoon.
"Red Dragon" <tasek@pc.jaring.my> wrote in message
news:bqu65r$grk$1@news5.jaring.my...

User: "Didymo s"
Title: Re: Pastor Dave does not get, repeat, does not get Under My Skin	08 Dec 2003 11:07:07 AM

"Red Dragon" <tasek@pc.jaring.my> wrote in message
news:bqv933$7bq$1@news6.jaring.my...

I need to point out that the earlier heading was not my doing. I have no
problem with any Pastor.

paster dave is not a pastor of anything: he has no flock, no parish, no
ministry, no training, no education. But, please, do not trust me or take
my word for it, but ask him for his credentials and curriculum vitae . . . .

Khoon.

"Red Dragon" <tasek@pc.jaring.my> wrote in message
news:bqu65r$grk$1@news5.jaring.my...

What about Jesus? Did anybody or Pastor see Jesus?
What about God? Did any Pastor see God?
There are many persons, objects and things in this Universe we can

never

see, but we know they exist for sure.

User: "Pastor Dave"
Title: Re: Pastor Dave does not get, repeat, does not get Under My Skin	08 Dec 2003 11:14:25 AM

On Mon, 08 Dec 2003 17:07:07 GMT, "Didymo s"
<me@privacy.net> wrote:

"Red Dragon" <tasek@pc.jaring.my> wrote in message
news:bqv933$7bq$1@news6.jaring.my...

I need to point out that the earlier heading was not my doing. I have no
problem with any Pastor.

Once more, you make the same accusations. And when
asked to prove your claim, you come up empty and
rather, demand that I prove you wrong. Once again, YOU
made the accusation. YOU prove your claim, or have the
decency to retract it, which we both know you won't do.
--
Pastor Dave Raymond
"As for me, I have not hastened from being a pastor
to follow thee: neither have I desired the woeful day;
thou knowest: that which came out of my lips was right
before thee." - Jeremiah 17:16
http://www.douknow.net/ev_evolution_test.htm
.

User: "Didymo s"
Title: Re: Pastor Dave still lies too	09 Dec 2003 03:22:09 PM

"Pastor Dave" <nospam-draymond@minister.com> wrote in message
news:j9c9tv0cubhfipnr2c1bku55m68lhmmhg1@4ax.com...

On Mon, 08 Dec 2003 17:07:07 GMT, "Didymo s"
<me@privacy.net> wrote:

"Red Dragon" <tasek@pc.jaring.my> wrote in message
news:bqv933$7bq$1@news6.jaring.my...

I need to point out that the earlier heading was not my doing. I have

problem with any Pastor.

paster dave is not a pastor of anything: he has no flock, no parish, no
ministry, no training, no education. But, please, do not trust me or

take

my word for it, but ask him for his credentials and curriculum vitae . .

.. .

Now, now, paster dave, I see you are no more honest now than you ever were.
You claimed many time you had kill-filed me. Why not keep me kill-filed?
Or did you lie and never do it? Remember these words of yours, paster dave?
"I've had enough of your lies about me and the false information that you
post here. Goodbye. <plonck!>
___
Pastor Dave Raymond"
You claim to be a pastor every time you post. Has that inconvenient fact
escaped you? I, and others, have never asked you to do more than prove the
claim you have made many thousands of times. You never have. And you are
still not a pastor of anything. Post your vita. Bet you won't. You never
have. Tell us exactly what flock you shepherd, can you? Tell us what
church authorized you perform pastoral duties. Bet you can't, because no
church ever has. Your false and silly claim to be a pastor is just about as
true as your nutty and patently false claim that there are only two
Alexandrian manuscripts . . . . geez . . .
By the way, here is your post for one of the last times you lied about
kill-filing me. You claimed to be a pastor in that post too. Care to deny
this?
Mark this on your calendars, folks. Paster dave claims in Message-ID:
<qgpgmvoetpo3o0bfbgvmohoooptjsvgc50@4ax.com that he has kill-filed Didymos.
How long will it last this time? We do recall that he kill-filed me on July
24th, 2003. Hmmmm, if that is true, why must he repeat the process? Did
paster dave lie yet again? Is he lying now? Time will tell . . . . but
there is a very high probability.
Here is the full message in which paster dave claims to have committed this
heinous act:
Path:
newsspool2.news.pas.earthlink.net!stamper.news.pas.earthlink.net!stamper.new
s.atl.earthlink.net!elnk-atl-nf1!newsfeed.earthlink.net!newshosting.com!news
-xfer1.atl.newshosting.com!167.206.3.103.MISMATCH!news3.optonline.net!cyclon
e.rdc-nyc.rr.com!news-west.rr.com!news.rr.com!cyclone.tampabay.rr.com!news-p
ost.tampabay.rr.com!twister.tampabay.rr.com.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail
From: Pastor Dave <nospam-draymond@minister.com>
Newsgroups: alt.bible
Subject: Re: Critical Text Did Use Byzantine/Majority Texts
Message-ID: <qgpgmvoetpo3o0bfbgvmohoooptjsvgc50@4ax.com>
References: <V367b.3771$PE6.43@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
<kY97b.717$8o3.56@news2.central.cox.net>
<%Ja7b.4066$PE6.3763@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
<taF7b.8518$8o3.104@news2.central.cox.net>
<g7culvslhsd5715q3ec5e44f1anj1c3bv6@4ax.com>
<CFQ9b.6672$BS5.4542@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net>
X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.93/32.576 English (American)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Lines: 47
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 13:49:44 GMT
NNTP-Posting-Host: 65.35.208.235
X-Complaints-To:

X-Trace: twister.tampabay.rr.com 1063806584 65.35.208.235 (Wed, 17 Sep 2003
09:49:44 EDT)
NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 09:49:44 EDT
Organization: RoadRunner - Tampa Bay
Xref: news.earthlink.net alt.bible:833581
X-Received-Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 07:00:00 PDT
(newsspool2.news.pas.earthlink.net)
On Wed, 17 Sep 2003 03:37:06 GMT, "Didymos"
<me@privacy.net> wrote:

This is another lie by Didymos and he cannot quote me
saying that they were not used in the preparation of
the Critical Text. I said that the Critical Text is
not "based on" the Majority Text and that is true. For
example, if I consult the MT, but tend to reject it in
favor of the Alexandrian Texts, whenever there is a
discrepancy, am I not correct in stating that the
Critical Text is not based on the Majority Text?

No, you are not correct. As usual. Go read a real book instead of your
weird King James only nuttiness.

I've had enough of your lies about me and the false
information that you post here. Goodbye. <plonck!>
___
Pastor Dave Raymond

"As for me, I have not hastened from being a pastor
to follow thee: neither have I desired the woeful day;
thou knowest: that which came out of my lips was right
before thee." - Jeremiah 17:16

http://www.douknow.net/ev_evolution_test.htm

User: "David Jensen"
Title: Re: Pastor Dave still lies too	09 Dec 2003 07:29:48 PM

In alt.talk.creationism, "Didymo s" <me@privacy.net> wrote in
<52rBb.5593$_r6.3725@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>:

"Pastor Dave" <nospam-draymond@minister.com> wrote in message
news:j9c9tv0cubhfipnr2c1bku55m68lhmmhg1@4ax.com...

On Mon, 08 Dec 2003 17:07:07 GMT, "Didymo s"
<me@privacy.net> wrote:

"Red Dragon" <tasek@pc.jaring.my> wrote in message
news:bqv933$7bq$1@news6.jaring.my...

I need to point out that the earlier heading was not my doing. I have

problem with any Pastor.

paster dave is not a pastor of anything: he has no flock, no parish, no
ministry, no training, no education. But, please, do not trust me or

take

my word for it, but ask him for his credentials and curriculum vitae . .

. .

Too bad, it's so nice to have been <plonked> by Dave the sheepherder.
You can make comments about his ignorance and, particularly, his lies
for everyone else to see, but he doesn't defend himself, because he
isn't aware that his lies are being exposed repeatedly or that people
are gladly pointing out how his behavior is unChristian or even
anti-Christian.
.

User: "Didymo s"
Title: Re: Pastor Dave still lies too	10 Dec 2003 01:27:54 PM

"David Jensen" <david@dajensen-family.com> wrote in message
news:6jtctvkeqvjt53tg7kb0aqp5833rvfnqv7@4ax.com...

In alt.talk.creationism, "Didymo s" <me@privacy.net> wrote in
<52rBb.5593$_r6.3725@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>:

"Pastor Dave" <nospam-draymond@minister.com> wrote in message
news:j9c9tv0cubhfipnr2c1bku55m68lhmmhg1@4ax.com...

On Mon, 08 Dec 2003 17:07:07 GMT, "Didymo s"
<me@privacy.net> wrote:

"Red Dragon" <tasek@pc.jaring.my> wrote in message
news:bqv933$7bq$1@news6.jaring.my...

I need to point out that the earlier heading was not my doing. I

have

problem with any Pastor.

paster dave is not a pastor of anything: he has no flock, no parish,

ministry, no training, no education. But, please, do not trust me or

take

my word for it, but ask him for his credentials and curriculum vitae .

. .

Now, now, paster dave, I see you are no more honest now than you ever

were.

You claimed many time you had kill-filed me. Why not keep me

kill-filed?

Or did you lie and never do it? Remember these words of yours, paster

dave?

"I've had enough of your lies about me and the false information that you
post here. Goodbye. <plonck!>

The silence was golden, wasn't it? I have a hard time deciding whether
paster dave just exercised extreme self control for a few weeks and never
did plonk me, or whether he plonked me and then for some reason unplonked
me. Do you think someone will ever be able to talk paster dave into
publishing his cv? Or exactly what it is he is a pastor of?
.

User: "Seppo Pietikainen"
Title: Re: Pastor Dave still lies too	10 Dec 2003 01:39:31 PM

Didymo s wrote:

"David Jensen" <david@dajensen-family.com> wrote in message
news:6jtctvkeqvjt53tg7kb0aqp5833rvfnqv7@4ax.com...

In alt.talk.creationism, "Didymo s" <me@privacy.net> wrote in
<52rBb.5593$_r6.3725@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>:

"Pastor Dave" <nospam-draymond@minister.com> wrote in message
news:j9c9tv0cubhfipnr2c1bku55m68lhmmhg1@4ax.com...

On Mon, 08 Dec 2003 17:07:07 GMT, "Didymo s"
<me@privacy.net> wrote:

"Red Dragon" <tasek@pc.jaring.my> wrote in message
news:bqv933$7bq$1@news6.jaring.my...

I need to point out that the earlier heading was not my doing. I

have

problem with any Pastor.

paster dave is not a pastor of anything: he has no flock, no parish,

ministry, no training, no education. But, please, do not trust me or

take

my word for it, but ask him for his credentials and curriculum vitae .

. .

Now, now, paster dave, I see you are no more honest now than you ever

were.

You claimed many time you had kill-filed me. Why not keep me

kill-filed?

Or did you lie and never do it? Remember these words of yours, paster

dave?

"I've had enough of your lies about me and the false information that you
post here. Goodbye. <plonck!>

I'm *really* not sure, and I apologize for misidentification and overall
lousy work already beforehand, but this *just might* be his homepage:
<http://intouch-edu.com/dave/dave.html>
Seppo P.
.

User: "Didymo s"
Title: Re: Pastor Dave still lies too	10 Dec 2003 04:01:35 PM

"Seppo Pietikainen" <s.pietikainen_drop@kolumbus.fi> wrote in message
news:br7spn$bl29$1@ID-137900.news.uni-berlin.de...

Didymo s wrote:

"David Jensen" <david@dajensen-family.com> wrote in message
news:6jtctvkeqvjt53tg7kb0aqp5833rvfnqv7@4ax.com...

In alt.talk.creationism, "Didymo s" <me@privacy.net> wrote in
<52rBb.5593$_r6.3725@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>:

"Pastor Dave" <nospam-draymond@minister.com> wrote in message
news:j9c9tv0cubhfipnr2c1bku55m68lhmmhg1@4ax.com...

On Mon, 08 Dec 2003 17:07:07 GMT, "Didymo s"
<me@privacy.net> wrote:

"Red Dragon" <tasek@pc.jaring.my> wrote in message
news:bqv933$7bq$1@news6.jaring.my...

I need to point out that the earlier heading was not my doing. I

have

problem with any Pastor.

paster dave is not a pastor of anything: he has no flock, no parish,

ministry, no training, no education. But, please, do not trust me or

take

my word for it, but ask him for his credentials and curriculum vitae

. .

Now, now, paster dave, I see you are no more honest now than you ever

were.

You claimed many time you had kill-filed me. Why not keep me

kill-filed?

Or did you lie and never do it? Remember these words of yours, paster

dave?

"I've had enough of your lies about me and the false information that

you

post here. Goodbye. <plonck!>

The silence was golden, wasn't it? I have a hard time deciding whether
paster dave just exercised extreme self control for a few weeks and

never

did plonk me, or whether he plonked me and then for some reason

unplonked

me. Do you think someone will ever be able to talk paster dave into
publishing his cv? Or exactly what it is he is a pastor of?

I'm *really* not sure, and I apologize for misidentification and overall
lousy work already beforehand, but this *just might* be his homepage:

<http://intouch-edu.com/dave/dave.html>

Seppo P.

Wow, thanks. Nothing to apologize for . . . . Can anyone find out if this
is really him and his page? I doubt he would even answer me.
Strange, nothing about being a pastor on there. No evidence of pastoral
training or education either. Nothing about any training or experience in,
Latin, Aramaic, or Hebrew, although this Dave Raymond claims to "have also
studied just a little Greek," enjoys "speaking German and I studied Spanish
in high school and college but have forgotten most of it," and is taking
Chinese.
I will check some of the sources of his posts and try to trace them. So
far, he seems to have been posting from Florida for some months, but that
can be easily fudged or forged, and a computer guy can esaily do that.
Thanks again.
.

User: "Red Dragon"
Title: Re: Pastor Dave still lies too	10 Dec 2003 06:48:37 PM

I'm *really* not sure, and I apologize for misidentification and overall
lousy work already beforehand, but this *just might* be his homepage:

<http://intouch-edu.com/dave/dave.html>

Seppo P.

in,

Latin, Aramaic, or Hebrew, although this Dave Raymond claims to "have also
studied just a little Greek," enjoys "speaking German and I studied

Spanish

in high school and college but have forgotten most of it," and is taking
Chinese.

I will check some of the sources of his posts and try to trace them. So
far, he seems to have been posting from Florida for some months, but that
can be easily fudged or forged, and a computer guy can esaily do that.

Thanks again.

Have you ever heard of Dr. Jekyl and Mr. Hyde?
Khoon.
.

User: "Didymo s"
Title: Re: Pastor Dave still lies too	11 Dec 2003 10:24:10 AM

"Red Dragon" <tasek@pc.jaring.my> wrote in message
news:br8gr1$gnk$1@news4.jaring.my...

I'm *really* not sure, and I apologize for misidentification and

overall

lousy work already beforehand, but this *just might* be his homepage:

<http://intouch-edu.com/dave/dave.html>

Seppo P.

Wow, thanks. Nothing to apologize for . . . . Can anyone find out if

this

is really him and his page? I doubt he would even answer me.

Strange, nothing about being a pastor on there. No evidence of pastoral
training or education either. Nothing about any training or experience

in,

Latin, Aramaic, or Hebrew, although this Dave Raymond claims to "have

also

studied just a little Greek," enjoys "speaking German and I studied

Spanish

that

can be easily fudged or forged, and a computer guy can esaily do that.

Thanks again.

Have you ever heard of Dr. Jekyl and Mr. Hyde?

Khoon.

Yup. So far, all of his posts I've checked appear to originate with a
Florida based ISP . . .
.

User: "Red Dragon"
Title: Re: Pastor Dave still lies too	10 Dec 2003 06:51:23 PM

I'm *really* not sure, and I apologize for misidentification and overall
lousy work already beforehand, but this *just might* be his homepage:

<http://intouch-edu.com/dave/dave.html>

Seppo P.

Can anyone think of reasons why a pleasant looking man wants to attach a
fictitious Pastor in front of his name? What can he derive out of this?
Khoon
.

User: "Pastor Dave"
Title: Re: Pastor Dave still lies too	11 Dec 2003 07:49:56 AM

On Thu, 11 Dec 2003 08:51:23 +0800, "Red Dragon"
<tasek@pc.jaring.my> wrote:

I'm *really* not sure, and I apologize for misidentification and overall
lousy work already beforehand, but this *just might* be his homepage:

<http://intouch-edu.com/dave/dave.html>

Seppo P.

Can anyone think of reasons why a pleasant looking man wants to attach a
fictitious Pastor in front of his name? What can he derive out of this?

You people are really something else. It doesn't
matter to you what anyone says, as long as they're
opposing a Christian. You have gone from reading
Dydimos' posts, to believing them, without checking any
of the facts out for yourselves. Now someone posts a
web page and everyone wonders if it's mine. Without
any checking at all, now you seem to believe it is mine
and I have been lying about who I am and where I live
and what title I have. All of this based on what
evidence? Oh, that's right, ZERO EVIDENCE. It never
even occurs to you people, that there might be more
than one "Dave Raymond" in the world, who is a
Christian.
You folks go ahead and team up with Dydimos the liar
and accuser of all who don't agree with him. That's
ok, I know you feel more comfortable with that, than
you do with standing with what is righteous. And why
bother asking me? It is much more fun to imagine up
all kinds of stuff about me and then spread it around
as if it's fact, just as Dydimos does on a regular
basis. He has the same philosophy as Hitler did.
"His primary rules were: never allow the public to cool
off; never admit a fault or wrong; never concede that
there may be some good in your enemy; never leave room
for alternatives; never accept blame; concentrate on
one enemy at a time and blame him for everything that
goes wrong; people will believe a big lie sooner than a
little one; and if you repeat it frequently enough
people will sooner or later believe it."
--
Pastor Dave Raymond
"As for me, I have not hastened from being a pastor
to follow thee: neither have I desired the woeful day;
thou knowest: that which came out of my lips was right
before thee." - Jeremiah 17:16
http://www.trueorigin.org/abio.asp
.

User: "Didymo s"
Title: Re: Pastor Dave still lies too	11 Dec 2003 10:38:14 AM

"Pastor Dave" <nospam-draymond@minister.com> wrote in message
news:02tgtvk2ved41682vra917l925hc4v664n@4ax.com...

On Thu, 11 Dec 2003 08:51:23 +0800, "Red Dragon"
<tasek@pc.jaring.my> wrote:

I'm *really* not sure, and I apologize for misidentification and

overall

lousy work already beforehand, but this *just might* be his homepage:

<http://intouch-edu.com/dave/dave.html>

Seppo P.

Can anyone think of reasons why a pleasant looking man wants to attach a
fictitious Pastor in front of his name? What can he derive out of this?

Now come on, paster dave. Read my posts again. Didn't I write and post:
"Can anyone find out if this
is really him and his page? I doubt he would even answer me." And then:
"I will check some of the sources of his posts and try to trace them. So
far, he seems to have been posting from Florida for some months, but that
can be easily fudged or forged, and a computer guy can esaily do that." Is
that not a request for evidence? Is expanding the headers of your posts and
running the information through ARIN, WHOIS, and some other information
sources not an attempt to find evidence?

You folks go ahead and team up with Dydimos the liar
and accuser of all who don't agree with him. That's
ok, I know you feel more comfortable with that, than
you do with standing with what is righteous. And why
bother asking me? It is much more fun to imagine up
all kinds of stuff about me and then spread it around
as if it's fact, just as Dydimos does on a regular
basis. He has the same philosophy as Hitler did.

Instead of ranting and raving about me, paster dave, why don't you just come
clean on the claim you have made thousands of times to be a pastor? Either
you are and you are not ashamed of your training, education, and experience
and will make that information availabe, or you are not and confession is
supposedly good for the souls of you Christians. What do you have to hide?
I have asked you many times, paster dave. I ask again. What church or
ministry do you serve as pastor? What are your training and educational
credentials that enable you to hold and maintain such a position?

"His primary rules were: never allow the public to cool
off; never admit a fault or wrong; never concede that
there may be some good in your enemy; never leave room
for alternatives; never accept blame; concentrate on
one enemy at a time and blame him for everything that
goes wrong; people will believe a big lie sooner than a
little one; and if you repeat it frequently enough
people will sooner or later believe it."

Whatever . . . But you have never told your readers what entitles you to
claim the title of pastor for yourself. And you make that explicit claim
with every post.

--

Pastor Dave Raymond

You just claimed to be a pastor again.

User: "Red Dragon"
Title: Re: Pastor Dave still lies too	11 Dec 2003 09:31:53 AM

You people are really something else. It doesn't
matter to you what anyone says, as long as they're
opposing a Christian.

Wrong. I am not opposing a Christian. I am only opposing frauds and
charlatan. I saw a smoking gun and someone showed me who was holding it.
You have gone from reading

Dydimos' posts, to believing them, without checking any
of the facts out for yourselves.

Dydimos' post was very conducive to my cerebrum. In the absence of further
explanation, we tend to form a certain opinion.
But if sufficient clarification were to be forthcoming, then it could sway
the general opinion.
Now someone posts a

web page and everyone wonders if it's mine. Without
any checking at all, now you seem to believe it is mine
and I have been lying about who I am and where I live
and what title I have. All of this based on what
evidence? Oh, that's right, ZERO EVIDENCE. It never
even occurs to you people, that there might be more
than one "Dave Raymond" in the world, who is a
Christian.

The probability of that happening is very slim. But certainly there would
be cases where a name is shared by many persons.

Wrong. I stand for the truth and the honest.
.

User: "Pastor Dave"
Title: Re: Pastor Dave still lies too	11 Dec 2003 08:58:50 PM

On Thu, 11 Dec 2003 23:31:53 +0800, "Red Dragon"
<tasek@pc.jaring.my> wrote:

You people are really something else. It doesn't
matter to you what anyone says, as long as they're
opposing a Christian.

Wrong. I am not opposing a Christian. I am only opposing frauds and
charlatan. I saw a smoking gun and someone showed me who was holding it.

You have gone from reading

Dydimos' posts, to believing them, without checking any
of the facts out for yourselves.

The probability of that happening is very slim. But certainly there would
be cases where a name is shared by many persons.

Wrong. I stand for the truth and the honest.

Yes, I can tell by this post of yours, which basically
states that you believe him. Why? Because he said so.
So far, that's all the evidence you have. You haven't
been around long enough. Give it time and you'll see
what he's really about.
--
Pastor Dave Raymond
"As for me, I have not hastened from being a pastor
to follow thee: neither have I desired the woeful day;
thou knowest: that which came out of my lips was right
before thee." - Jeremiah 17:16
http://www.delusionresistance.org/creation/christ_scientific_creation.html
.

User: "Red Dragon"
Title: Re: Pastor Dave still lies too	12 Dec 2003 09:30:37 PM

You have gone from reading

Dydimos' posts, to believing them, without checking any
of the facts out for yourselves.

I am unable to check because I am no private investigator and obviously I
cannot afford to employ one. That is why I am hoping for and depending on
good souls to point out the facts for me. I have the confidence that my
cerebrum has the capability to sieve out the truth and the untruth.

After complaining that others are making assumptions and presumptions, the
good pastor is now making the wrong assumptions about me without the
envidence and the proofs. Come one! Being the Pot, it is unethical to call
the Kettle black.

Yes, I can tell by this post of yours, which basically
states that you believe him.

Believe him ? No. I believe only in Evolution, Geology, Astronomy and
Science.
Why? Because he said so.

So far, that's all the evidence you have. You haven't
been around long enough. Give it time and you'll see
what he's really about.

You mean that fellow is the devil in disguise? A wolf in sheep's clothing?
Thanks for the warning. I will watch my steps and be on the look out.
.

User: "Pastor Dave"
Title: Re: Pastor Dave still lies too	13 Dec 2003 08:23:19 AM

On Sat, 13 Dec 2003 11:30:37 +0800, "Red Dragon"
<tasek@pc.jaring.my> wrote:

You have gone from reading

Dydimos' posts, to believing them, without checking any
of the facts out for yourselves.

Well, there's your problem. You're depending on the
wrong person. :)

This was a statement in general, to whomever. You have
not been around for what has previously occurred.

Yes, I can tell by this post of yours, which basically
states that you believe him.

Believe him ? No. I believe only in Evolution, Geology, Astronomy and
Science.

Your post sure seemed like it.

Why? Because he said so.

So far, that's all the evidence you have. You haven't
been around long enough. Give it time and you'll see
what he's really about.

You mean that fellow is the devil in disguise? A wolf in sheep's clothing?
Thanks for the warning. I will watch my steps and be on the look out.

You'll see.
--
Pastor Dave Raymond
"As for me, I have not hastened from being a pastor
to follow thee: neither have I desired the woeful day;
thou knowest: that which came out of my lips was right
before thee." - Jeremiah 17:16
"When we descend to details we can prove that no one
species has changed (i.e., we cannot prove that a
single species has changed): nor can we prove that
the supposed changes are beneficial, which is the
groundwork of the theory. Nor can we explain why
some species have changed and others have not.
The latter case seems to me hardly more difficult
to understand precisely and in detail than the former
case of supposed change" - Darwin, 1863.
.

User: "Red Dragon"
Title: Re: Pastor Dave still lies too	12 Dec 2003 09:40:20 PM

You have gone from reading

Dydimos' posts, to believing them, without checking any
of the facts out for yourselves.

Yes, I can tell by this post of yours, which basically
states that you believe him.

Believe him ? No. I believe only in Evolution, Geology, Astronomy and
Science.
Why? Because he said so.

So far, that's all the evidence you have. You haven't
been around long enough. Give it time and you'll see
what he's really about.

You mean that fellow is the devil in disguise? A wolf in sheep's clothing?
Thanks for the warning. I will watch my steps and be on the look out.
.

User: "Red Dragon"
Title: Re: Pastor Dave still lies too	12 Dec 2003 09:40:25 PM

You have gone from reading

Dydimos' posts, to believing them, without checking any
of the facts out for yourselves.

Yes, I can tell by this post of yours, which basically
states that you believe him.

Believe him ? No. I believe only in Evolution, Geology, Astronomy and
Science.
Why? Because he said so.

So far, that's all the evidence you have. You haven't
been around long enough. Give it time and you'll see
what he's really about.

You mean that fellow is the devil in disguise? A wolf in sheep's clothing?
Thanks for the warning. I will watch my steps and be on the look out.
.

User: "Red Dragon"
Title: Re: Pastor Dave still lies too	12 Dec 2003 09:40:35 PM

You have gone from reading

Dydimos' posts, to believing them, without checking any
of the facts out for yourselves.

Yes, I can tell by this post of yours, which basically
states that you believe him.

Believe him ? No. I believe only in Evolution, Geology, Astronomy and
Science.
Why? Because he said so.

So far, that's all the evidence you have. You haven't
been around long enough. Give it time and you'll see
what he's really about.

You mean that fellow is the devil in disguise? A wolf in sheep's clothing?
Thanks for the warning. I will watch my steps and be on the look out.
.

User: "Red Dragon"
Title: Re: Pastor Dave still lies too	12 Dec 2003 09:47:05 PM

I wish to apologize for posting three times the same email. It is the fault
of my computer which had become emotional over the issue.
Khoon.
.

User: "Glenn \Christian Mystic"
Title: Re: Pastor Dave still lies too	17 Dec 2003 12:04:15 PM

As it happens to us all, you hardly needed to apologize :-)
"Red Dragon" <tasek@pc.jaring.my> wrote in message
news:bre25j$sg2$1@news6.jaring.my...

I wish to apologize for posting three times the same email. It is the

fault

of my computer which had become emotional over the issue.

Khoon.

User: "Pastor Dave"
Title: Re: Pastor Dave still lies too	13 Dec 2003 08:23:46 AM

On Sat, 13 Dec 2003 11:47:05 +0800, "Red Dragon"
<tasek@pc.jaring.my> wrote:

I wish to apologize for posting three times the same email. It is the fault
of my computer which had become emotional over the issue.

Yes, they tend to do that now and then. :)
--
Pastor Dave Raymond
"As for me, I have not hastened from being a pastor
to follow thee: neither have I desired the woeful day;
thou knowest: that which came out of my lips was right
before thee." - Jeremiah 17:16
Evolution =
Unknown chemicals in the primordial past...through...
Unknown processes which no longer exist...produced...
Unknown life forms which are not to be found, but
could through...
Unknown reproduction methods spawn new life...in an..
Unknown atmospheric composition...in an...
Unknown oceanic soup complex...at an...
Unknown time and place.
Dr. Henry Morris
.

User: "Pastor Dave"
Title: Re: Pastor Dave still lies too	11 Dec 2003 07:40:48 AM

On Tue, 09 Dec 2003 21:22:09 GMT, "Didymo s"
<me@privacy.net> wrote:

"Pastor Dave" <nospam-draymond@minister.com> wrote in message
news:j9c9tv0cubhfipnr2c1bku55m68lhmmhg1@4ax.com...

On Mon, 08 Dec 2003 17:07:07 GMT, "Didymo s"
<me@privacy.net> wrote:

"Red Dragon" <tasek@pc.jaring.my> wrote in message
news:bqv933$7bq$1@news6.jaring.my...

I need to point out that the earlier heading was not my doing. I have

problem with any Pastor.

paster dave is not a pastor of anything: he has no flock, no parish, no
ministry, no training, no education. But, please, do not trust me or

take

my word for it, but ask him for his credentials and curriculum vitae . .

. .

Wrong. You did not ASK me to do anything. You made a
claim and stated it as if it were fact. You were then
asked to back it up and failed to do so.

And you are still not a pastor of anything.

Thank you for proving my point.

Post your vita. Bet you won't. You never
have. Tell us exactly what flock you shepherd, can you? Tell us what
church authorized you perform pastoral duties. Bet you can't, because no
church ever has. Your false and silly claim to be a pastor is just about as
true as your nutty and patently false claim that there are only two
Alexandrian manuscripts . . . . geez . . .

Thank you for further proving my point.

By the way, here is your post for one of the last times you lied about
kill-filing me. You claimed to be a pastor in that post too. Care to deny
this?

I have kill filed you more than once. The problem is,
you keep changing your handle, just a bit, so that you
can get around kill files and then claim that the other
people are lying about having kill filed you. Note
that now, the "s" at the end of your handle has a space
between it and the rest of your handle. That is enough
to get around a kill file. It is YOU who is dishonest
and once again, you go on your rampage, attacking me.
Just like you did over and over again, the other times.

By the way, here is your post for one of the last times you lied about
kill-filing me. You claimed to be a pastor in that post too. Care to deny
this?

Yes, let's take a careful look at this post that you
are quoting. Note the handle he used folks. It was,
"Didymos". Now he uses, "Didymo s". Notice the space.
He does this intentionally and then wishes to accuse me
of lying about kill filing him. He has done this
before, changing his handle, to get around kill files
and then made the same accusation.

Mark this on your calendars, folks.

Yes folks, please do.

Paster dave claims in Message-ID:
<qgpgmvoetpo3o0bfbgvmohoooptjsvgc50@4ax.com that he has kill-filed Didymos.
How long will it last this time? We do recall that he kill-filed me on July
24th, 2003. Hmmmm, if that is true, why must he repeat the process? Did
paster dave lie yet again? Is he lying now? Time will tell . . . . but
there is a very high probability.

Here is the full message in which paster dave claims to have committed this
heinous act:

Path:
newsspool2.news.pas.earthlink.net!stamper.news.pas.earthlink.net!stamper.new
s.atl.earthlink.net!elnk-atl-nf1!newsfeed.earthlink.net!newshosting.com!news
-xfer1.atl.newshosting.com!167.206.3.103.MISMATCH!news3.optonline.net!cyclon
e.rdc-nyc.rr.com!news-west.rr.com!news.rr.com!cyclone.tampabay.rr.com!news-p
ost.tampabay.rr.com!twister.tampabay.rr.com.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail
From: Pastor Dave <nospam-draymond@minister.com>
Newsgroups: alt.bible
Subject: Re: Critical Text Did Use Byzantine/Majority Texts
Message-ID: <qgpgmvoetpo3o0bfbgvmohoooptjsvgc50@4ax.com>
References: <V367b.3771$PE6.43@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
<kY97b.717$8o3.56@news2.central.cox.net>
<%Ja7b.4066$PE6.3763@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
<taF7b.8518$8o3.104@news2.central.cox.net>
<g7culvslhsd5715q3ec5e44f1anj1c3bv6@4ax.com>
<CFQ9b.6672$BS5.4542@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net>
X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.93/32.576 English (American)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Lines: 47
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 13:49:44 GMT
NNTP-Posting-Host: 65.35.208.235
X-Complaints-To:

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09:49:44 EDT)
NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 09:49:44 EDT
Organization: RoadRunner - Tampa Bay
Xref: news.earthlink.net alt.bible:833581
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(newsspool2.news.pas.earthlink.net)

On Wed, 17 Sep 2003 03:37:06 GMT, "Didymos"
<me@privacy.net> wrote:

And there it is folks. Notice the difference in the
handle.

No, you are not correct. As usual. Go read a real book instead of your
weird King James only nuttiness.

I've had enough of your lies about me and the false
information that you post here. Goodbye. <plonck!>

___

Pastor Dave Raymond

Also notice the false claim he made above. I asked him
to back that one up to and he couldn't. This man lies
about what people have said and then when they demand
that he quote them saying it, he cannot. He then goes
on to attack on other subjects, which he will not back
up either.
--
Pastor Dave Raymond
"As for me, I have not hastened from being a pastor
to follow thee: neither have I desired the woeful day;
thou knowest: that which came out of my lips was right
before thee." - Jeremiah 17:16
Read an amzing book! it's called; "The Evolution
of a Creationist", by Jobe Martin.
Buy it at: http://tinyurl.com/hq7k
Or read it online at: http://tinyurl.com/hq7q
.

User: "Didymos"
Title: Re: Pastor Dave still lies too	11 Dec 2003 11:35:45 AM

"Pastor Dave" <nospam-draymond@minister.com> wrote in message
news:lnsgtvs2cse4295qm1c6o5hclk2cmmua72@4ax.com...

On Tue, 09 Dec 2003 21:22:09 GMT, "Didymo s"
<me@privacy.net> wrote:

"Pastor Dave" <nospam-draymond@minister.com> wrote in message
news:j9c9tv0cubhfipnr2c1bku55m68lhmmhg1@4ax.com...

On Mon, 08 Dec 2003 17:07:07 GMT, "Didymo s"
<me@privacy.net> wrote:

"Red Dragon" <tasek@pc.jaring.my> wrote in message
news:bqv933$7bq$1@news6.jaring.my...

I need to point out that the earlier heading was not my doing. I

have

problem with any Pastor.

paster dave is not a pastor of anything: he has no flock, no parish,

ministry, no training, no education. But, please, do not trust me or

take

my word for it, but ask him for his credentials and curriculum vitae .

. .

Now, now, paster dave, I see you are no more honest now than you ever

were.

You claimed many time you had kill-filed me. Why not keep me

kill-filed?

Or did you lie and never do it? Remember these words of yours, paster

dave?

"I've had enough of your lies about me and the false information that you
post here. Goodbye. <plonck!>

___

Pastor Dave Raymond"

You claim to be a pastor every time you post. Has that inconvenient fact
escaped you? I, and others, have never asked you to do more than prove

the

claim you have made many thousands of times. You never have.

Wrong. You did not ASK me to do anything. You made a
claim and stated it as if it were fact. You were then
asked to back it up and failed to do so.

You still have yet to offer any evidence that you are a pastor of anything.
You claim to be a pastor. Going back many months, you have always claimed
that to be the case. All I did was ask you what you were a pastor of.
Instead of providing some evidence that you are a pastor, you always attack
everyone's motivation for asking.

And you are still not a pastor of anything.

Thank you for proving my point.

But the truth of my statement is still unchallenged.

true as your nutty and patently false claim that there are only two
Alexandrian manuscripts . . . . geez . . .

Thank you for further proving my point.

No vita yet . . . .

By the way, here is your post for one of the last times you lied about
kill-filing me. You claimed to be a pastor in that post too. Care to

deny

this?

Whoops, sorry. Killed my hard drive and reloaded a couple weeks ago.
Apologies all around.
I trust you have kill-filed all variations of Didymos by now, right paster
dave? By the way, what compelled you to reply this time? Are you going to
find somebody else's Usenet etiquette page that requires one to reply to all
posts?
You are still not a pastor.

By the way, here is your post for one of the last times you lied about
kill-filing me. You claimed to be a pastor in that post too. Care to

deny

this?

Whatever . . . but what compels you to reply?

Mark this on your calendars, folks.

Yes folks, please do.

I did. See, paster dave, I aim to please.

Paster dave claims in Message-ID:
<qgpgmvoetpo3o0bfbgvmohoooptjsvgc50@4ax.com that he has kill-filed

Didymos.

How long will it last this time? We do recall that he kill-filed me on

July

24th, 2003. Hmmmm, if that is true, why must he repeat the process?

Did

paster dave lie yet again? Is he lying now? Time will tell . . . . but
there is a very high probability.

Here is the full message in which paster dave claims to have committed

this

heinous act:

Path:

newsspool2.news.pas.earthlink.net!stamper.news.pas.earthlink.net!stamper.ne

s.atl.earthlink.net!elnk-atl-nf1!newsfeed.earthlink.net!newshosting.com!new

-xfer1.atl.newshosting.com!167.206.3.103.MISMATCH!news3.optonline.net!cyclo

e.rdc-nyc.rr.com!news-west.rr.com!news.rr.com!cyclone.tampabay.rr.com!news-

ost.tampabay.rr.com!twister.tampabay.rr.com.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail
From: Pastor Dave <nospam-draymond@minister.com>
Newsgroups: alt.bible
Subject: Re: Critical Text Did Use Byzantine/Majority Texts
Message-ID: <qgpgmvoetpo3o0bfbgvmohoooptjsvgc50@4ax.com>
References: <V367b.3771$PE6.43@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
<kY97b.717$8o3.56@news2.central.cox.net>
<%Ja7b.4066$PE6.3763@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
<taF7b.8518$8o3.104@news2.central.cox.net>
<g7culvslhsd5715q3ec5e44f1anj1c3bv6@4ax.com>
<CFQ9b.6672$BS5.4542@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net>
X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.93/32.576 English (American)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Lines: 47
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 13:49:44 GMT
NNTP-Posting-Host: 65.35.208.235
X-Complaints-To:

X-Trace: twister.tampabay.rr.com 1063806584 65.35.208.235 (Wed, 17 Sep

2003

09:49:44 EDT)
NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 09:49:44 EDT
Organization: RoadRunner - Tampa Bay
Xref: news.earthlink.net alt.bible:833581
X-Received-Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 07:00:00 PDT
(newsspool2.news.pas.earthlink.net)

On Wed, 17 Sep 2003 03:37:06 GMT, "Didymos"
<me@privacy.net> wrote:

And there it is folks. Notice the difference in the
handle.

No, you are not correct. As usual. Go read a real book instead of your
weird King James only nuttiness.

I've had enough of your lies about me and the false
information that you post here. Goodbye. <plonck!>

___

Pastor Dave Raymond

And you are still not a real pastor of anything, paster dave. And you
cannot demonstrate that you are.

--

Pastor Dave Raymond

"As for me, I have not hastened from being a pastor
to follow thee: neither have I desired the woeful day;
thou knowest: that which came out of my lips was right
before thee." - Jeremiah 17:16

Wherever did you find that translation of Jeremiah? Might I be so bold as
to suggest that a much better translation is: "But I have not evaded being
a shepherd in your service (Exact force of Hebrew is uncertain. Emendation
yields 'urged you to [bring] misfortune.), nor have I longed for the fatal
day. You know the utterances of my lips, they were ever before you."
I am certain your Hebrew scholarship, which is doubtless on a par with your
Greek scholarship ("mood tense" davey? sheesh . . . ), will find fault with
that translation I provided. Argue it with the JPS . . . .
Yes, paster dave, we do know the utterances of your lips . . . . and those
utterances are nothing to be proud of. How can so-called "Christians" like
yourself and IKnowHimDoYou and John W. be so thoroughly disingenous and
dishonest, yet claim to speak for God and Jesus Christ and Christianity?
Doesn't the commandment about bearing false witness apply to you guys?

Read an amzing book! it's called; "The Evolution
of a Creationist", by Jobe Martin.

Buy it at: http://tinyurl.com/hq7k

Or read it online at: http://tinyurl.com/hq7q

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Re: paster dave still lying
Paster dave, do you know Koine? Do you know Greek?
Re: Paster Dave, 3rd Time For This Question
Re: Pastor Dave, please go!
Re: Pastor Dave, please stay!