| Topic: |
Religions > Bible |
| User: |
"" |
| Date: |
27 May 2005 10:45:30 AM |
| Object: |
PAUL , TONGUES AND "DEVOTIONAL PRAYER" |
In addressing the subject of tongues, offered the
following: "Paul never said anything about tongues as a "devotional
prayer life." We would suggest otherwise.
Whether or not one views the exercise of tongues as for the present
time, the fact remains that Paul stated: "I thank my God, I speak in
tongues more than you all: however, in the church I had rather speak
five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others
also, than ten thousand words in a tongue" (I Cor. 14:19,20).
Since Paul spoke in tongues more than anyone else in a church much
absorbed with the practice and since, in the church, he would rather
speak five words in the commonly understood language - where was he
doing all this speaking in tongues if not in private devotional life?
Again, the apostle speaks of one's speaking to God in the exercise of
tongues (I Cor. 14:2,28). Does not this qualify as devotional?
Burl Ratzsch
http://burlratzsch.blogspot.com/
.
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| User: "jw" |
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| Title: Re: PAUL , TONGUES AND "DEVOTIONAL PRAYER" |
27 May 2005 11:19:38 AM |
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x-no-archive: yes
On 27 May 2005 08:45:30 -0700, wrote:
copyright 2005 John Weatherly all rights reserved <keep it in the
group>
In addressing the subject of tongues, offered the
following: "Paul never said anything about tongues as a "devotional
prayer life." We would suggest otherwise.
Whether or not one views the exercise of tongues as for the present
time, the fact remains that Paul stated: "I thank my God, I speak in
tongues more than you all: however, in the church I had rather speak
five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others
also, than ten thousand words in a tongue" (I Cor. 14:19,20).
Since Paul spoke in tongues more than anyone else in a church much
absorbed with the practice and since, in the church, he would rather
speak five words in the commonly understood language - where was he
doing all this speaking in tongues if not in private devotional life?
I must disagree here.
Paul is not necessarily saying that he speaks in tongues a lot.
What he IS doing is making a point by comparison.
He perhaps is saying that the proper use of tongues is not happening,
and he speaks in tongues RARELY (like little or not at all),
therefore, the Christians at Corinth should not be doing it at all.
Paul goes on to say that tongues do NOT edify the believer (private
devotions, during which there is NO reason for tongues, since God
knows our innermost thoughts).
Paul says that tongues edify the NON-believer, since they show the
non-believer that the believer has the power of almighty God.
jw
Again, the apostle speaks of one's speaking to God in the exercise of
tongues (I Cor. 14:2,28). Does not this qualify as devotional?
Burl Ratzsch
http://burlratzsch.blogspot.com/
.
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| User: "Dore" |
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| Title: Re: PAUL , TONGUES AND "DEVOTIONAL PRAYER" |
27 May 2005 07:36:40 PM |
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"jw @yoo.hoo>" <jw<no> wrote in message
news:lthe915pggheg2nm3ckanhbbq9j8rokgu9@4ax.com...
I must disagree here.
Paul is not necessarily saying that he speaks in tongues a lot.
What he IS doing is making a point by comparison.
He perhaps is saying that the proper use of tongues is not happening,
and he speaks in tongues RARELY (like little or not at all),
therefore, the Christians at Corinth should not be doing it at all.
Paul goes on to say that tongues do NOT edify the believer (private
devotions, during which there is NO reason for tongues, since God
knows our innermost thoughts).
Paul says that tongues edify the NON-believer, since they show the
non-believer that the believer has the power of almighty God.
Paul is an idiot. Speaking in tongues, therefore being FILLED with the Holy
Spirit, manifesting the POWER of GOD is certainly a wonderful and awesome
gift, which Paul should appreciate rather than pretend that his speaking in
a known language for others to understand is better, for it is NOT. People
may not listen to words spoken in an understood language, but the POWER of
GOD, speaking in tongues, which removes and causes devils to flee and brings
the power of the Holy Spirit on all who is in the presence of the one with
the power, is far better than anything on earthly things, even teaching
others. And there most certainly is a reason and purpose for tongues used
privately, as it overcomes the demons, and devils attempting to tempt,
oppress, afflict etc you and thus tongues is good and righteous ALL OF THE
TIME for anyone who has the gift.
--
Dore
www.dorewilliamson.com
"jw @yoo.hoo>" <jw<no> wrote in message
news:lthe915pggheg2nm3ckanhbbq9j8rokgu9@4ax.com...
x-no-archive: yes
On 27 May 2005 08:45:30 -0700, wrote:
copyright 2005 John Weatherly all rights reserved <keep it in the
group>
In addressing the subject of tongues, offered the
following: "Paul never said anything about tongues as a "devotional
prayer life." We would suggest otherwise.
Whether or not one views the exercise of tongues as for the present
time, the fact remains that Paul stated: "I thank my God, I speak in
tongues more than you all: however, in the church I had rather speak
five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others
also, than ten thousand words in a tongue" (I Cor. 14:19,20).
Since Paul spoke in tongues more than anyone else in a church much
absorbed with the practice and since, in the church, he would rather
speak five words in the commonly understood language - where was he
doing all this speaking in tongues if not in private devotional life?
I must disagree here.
Paul is not necessarily saying that he speaks in tongues a lot.
What he IS doing is making a point by comparison.
He perhaps is saying that the proper use of tongues is not happening,
and he speaks in tongues RARELY (like little or not at all),
therefore, the Christians at Corinth should not be doing it at all.
Paul goes on to say that tongues do NOT edify the believer (private
devotions, during which there is NO reason for tongues, since God
knows our innermost thoughts).
Paul says that tongues edify the NON-believer, since they show the
non-believer that the believer has the power of almighty God.
jw
Again, the apostle speaks of one's speaking to God in the exercise of
tongues (I Cor. 14:2,28). Does not this qualify as devotional?
Burl Ratzsch
http://burlratzsch.blogspot.com/
.
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| User: "Don - - - - - ---" |
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| Title: Re: PAUL , TONGUES AND "DEVOTIONAL PRAYER" |
28 May 2005 03:12:03 AM |
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On Sat, 28 May 2005 00:36:40 GMT, "Dore" <dorewilliamson@verizon.net>
wrote:
Paul is an idiot.
Are you saying that in the name of Jesus?
Then you said:
1) Speaking in tongues, therefore
2) being FILLED with the Holy Spirit,
3) manifesting the POWER of GOD...
.... is certainly a wonderful and awesome gift,
You just listed three UNRELATED terms altogether. They are not
synonymous. If you were really "manifesting the POWER of GOD," you
would have had the self-control to not call Paul an idiot.
"A congregation will rarely rise above
the spiritual level of the leadership."
--- An Astute Observer
.
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| User: "Dore" |
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| Title: Re: PAUL , TONGUES AND "DEVOTIONAL PRAYER" |
28 May 2005 09:03:08 PM |
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"Don" <- - - - - --- somebody@worldwide.net> wrote in message
news:do9g91tm7gtthn5iq0dcuglbjrs6128a8c@4ax.com...
On Sat, 28 May 2005 00:36:40 GMT, "Dore" <dorewilliamson@verizon.net>
wrote:
Paul is an idiot.
Are you saying that in the name of Jesus?
Then you said:
1) Speaking in tongues, therefore
2) being FILLED with the Holy Spirit,
3) manifesting the POWER of GOD...
... is certainly a wonderful and awesome gift,
You just listed three UNRELATED terms altogether. They are not
synonymous. If you were really "manifesting the POWER of GOD," you
would have had the self-control to not call Paul an idiot.
Obviously, YOU don't have the gift of tongues, therefore have NO clue of
what it is all about. It IS the manifestation of the Holy Spirit and it IS
power, and anyone who thinks that speaking words for people to understand,
whether they listen or not, is better than the Holy Spirit's gifts, His
power and HIS manifestation IS an idiot, even Paul.
--
Dore
www.dorewilliamson.com
"Don" <- - - - - --- somebody@worldwide.net> wrote in message
news:do9g91tm7gtthn5iq0dcuglbjrs6128a8c@4ax.com...
On Sat, 28 May 2005 00:36:40 GMT, "Dore" <dorewilliamson@verizon.net>
wrote:
Paul is an idiot.
Are you saying that in the name of Jesus?
Then you said:
1) Speaking in tongues, therefore
2) being FILLED with the Holy Spirit,
3) manifesting the POWER of GOD...
... is certainly a wonderful and awesome gift,
You just listed three UNRELATED terms altogether. They are not
synonymous. If you were really "manifesting the POWER of GOD," you
would have had the self-control to not call Paul an idiot.
"A congregation will rarely rise above
the spiritual level of the leadership."
--- An Astute Observer
.
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| User: "alt" |
|
| Title: Re: PAUL , TONGUES AND "DEVOTIONAL PRAYER" |
29 May 2005 01:19:23 AM |
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On Sun, 29 May 2005 02:03:08 +0000, Dore wrote:
"Don" <- - - - - --- somebody@worldwide.net> wrote in message
news:do9g91tm7gtthn5iq0dcuglbjrs6128a8c@4ax.com...
On Sat, 28 May 2005 00:36:40 GMT, "Dore" <dorewilliamson@verizon.net>
wrote:
Paul is an idiot.
Are you saying that in the name of Jesus?
Then you said:
1) Speaking in tongues, therefore
2) being FILLED with the Holy Spirit,
3) manifesting the POWER of GOD...
... is certainly a wonderful and awesome gift,
You just listed three UNRELATED terms altogether. They are not
synonymous. If you were really "manifesting the POWER of GOD," you
would have had the self-control to not call Paul an idiot.
Obviously, YOU don't have the gift of tongues, therefore have NO clue of
what it is all about. It IS the manifestation of the Holy Spirit and it IS
power, and anyone who thinks that speaking words for people to understand,
whether they listen or not, is better than the Holy Spirit's gifts, His
power and HIS manifestation IS an idiot, even Paul.
Wow. Those are very damning words, Dore. You've thrown out roughly 30% of
the text of the New Testament. (In retrospect, I figured Paul's writings
were more voluminous than that, but now that I think about it, I'm glad
that Paul's letters do not make up a majority of the New Testament, as it
ensures that we cannot be accused of following Paul instead of Jesus.)
My experience is that the world does not look at glossolalia tongues in
awe or fear, but they look upon those that speak as religious nut jobs.
However, if you have the gift of prophecy and speak the truth, people will
be in awe of that, or at least respect you. The gift of tongues, as
displayed in Acts, was used for the benefit of those visiting from foreign
lands.
Paul made the point in 1 Corinthians 14:1-5. To paraphrase,
'[prayer] tongues are for speaking to God and prophesy is for speaking to
Man.' You stated earlier: "Speaking in tongues, therefore being FILLED
with the Holy Spirit, manifesting the POWER of GOD is certainly a
wonderful and awesome gift, which Paul should appreciate rather than
pretend that his speaking in a known language for others to understand is
better, for it is NOT."
I would ask whether it is better for you to be filled with the Holy
Spirit, speak in tongues which noone can understand, and none saved as a
result; or to be filled with the Holy Spirit, prophesy in a language that
man can understand and even just one person saved? Jesus didn't just come
to this earth so that we could enter into a personal relationship with
God, but as stated in John 3:16 - "For God so loved the world, that He
gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in Him shall not
perish, but have everlasting life." Jesus came so that man could be saved
from sin and death. Everything else is just gravy. Having a relationship
with the creator, speaking to Him and being spoken to Him is certainly
good. Being set free from our sins and bondage is better. But leading
someone to Jesus, even just planting a seed, is the best! Nothing gives me
more joy in the Lord than planting a seed of his love.
But, I would like to draw your attention to some verses NOT written by
Paul.
First, your assertion that tongues is necessary to "remove and cause
devils to flee" is not doctrinal.
Revelations 12:11 says "And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and
by the word of their testimony, and they did not love their lives to the
death". Who are "they"? "They" are "our brethern", that is us. Who is
"him"? The enemy the devil. We don't need tongues to overcome devils and
demons, because our own testimonies about how Jesus saved us by the
shedding of his blood is enough.
James 4:7 reads, "Resist the devil and he will flee from you." - I don't
even need to open my mouth. All I have to do is resist.
1 Peter 5:8,9 - "Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the
devil walks about like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour. Resist
him, steadfast in the faith, knowing the same sufferings are experienced
by your brotherhood in the world." - Again, resistance is enough.
Now, you also assert that evidence of the Holy Spirit is tongues, however,
I counter that it is only _an_ evidence, and that love is _the_ evidence
of the Holy Spirit.
1 John 4:12(b)-16 - "If we love one another, God abides in us, and His
love has been perfected in us. By this we know that we abide in Him and HE
in use, because He has given us of His spirit. And we have seen and
testify that the Father has sent the Son as Saviour of the world. Whoever
confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in Him, and he in God.
And we have known and believed the love that God has for us. God is love,
and he who abides in love abides in God, and God in him."
If you read through the New Testament - Paul's writings included - the
most common theme is love: God's love for us through Jesus; Our love for
God; Our love for one another, God's love for the world. And throughout,
love is exemplified as the evidence of the Spirit or the evidence of our
faith in Jesus.
Another point: Do you not know how powerless our enemy is? Even the most
insignificant angel has dominion over him.
Revelations 20:1 - Then I saw _an angel_ coming down from heaven, having
the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. He laid hold
of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound
him for a thousand years. [note: an insignificant angel that has NO name
of record!]
And we, as children of God, are in dominion over even the angels, just as
our Father is in dominion over all creation. How much more so are we in
dominion over the enemy and his minions?
And finally, before you discard Paul, know that he was commissioned by the
Holy Spirit as written in Acts 13:1-3 (v2: As they ministered to the Lord
and fasted, the Holy Spirit said, "Now separate to Me Barnabus and Saul
for the work to which I have called them."). When God calls someone to a
ministry, it is not a small thing for another to say that he is "an
idiot". Personally, I would be very, very careful about calling anyone
called by God "an idiot" with regards to their calling, even if they were
the dictionary definition of 'idiot'.
God bless you Dore. Don't discount what Paul said. He was commissioned by
God to take the gospel to us, the gentile.
.
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| User: "Dore" |
|
| Title: Re: PAUL , TONGUES AND "DEVOTIONAL PRAYER" |
30 May 2005 05:53:10 PM |
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"alt" <spamtrap@lazyeyez.net> wrote in message
news:pan.2005.05.29.06.19.20.355223@lazyeyez.net...
Wow. Those are very damning words, Dore. You've thrown out roughly 30% of
the text of the New Testament. (In retrospect, I figured Paul's writings
were more voluminous than that, but now that I think about it, I'm glad
that Paul's letters do not make up a majority of the New Testament, as it
ensures that we cannot be accused of following Paul instead of Jesus.)
No, I threw out the words of Paul stating that it is better to speak in
language understood by men, rather than speak in tongues for that was an
idiotic statement.
cont
My experience is that the world does not look at glossolalia tongues in
awe or fear, but they look upon those that speak as religious nut jobs.
However, if you have the gift of prophecy and speak the truth, people will
be in awe of that, or at least respect you. The gift of tongues, as
displayed in Acts, was used for the benefit of those visiting from foreign
lands.
Why should you care what other people, especially the evil, sinful and
wicked, think? Isn't it more important to care what God thinks? Of course,
if you use the gift of tongues to cast out evil spirits, bring a blessing or
some other powerful force, people will respect that. If you speak in
prophecy, you have to wait until the prophecy comes true before anyone will
respect you or be in awe of it. The miracle in Acts is simply ONE example
of how the gift is used.
cont
Paul made the point in 1 Corinthians 14:1-5. To paraphrase,
'[prayer] tongues are for speaking to God and prophesy is for speaking to
Man.' You stated earlier: "Speaking in tongues, therefore being FILLED
with the Holy Spirit, manifesting the POWER of GOD is certainly a
wonderful and awesome gift, which Paul should appreciate rather than
pretend that his speaking in a known language for others to understand is
better, for it is NOT."
Paul is wrong. Tongues is NOT just speaking to God, however, when you DO use
it for that purpose, the devil cannot comprehend the conversation and use it
against you. There are many uses for the gift, as I stated above, you can
use it to cast out devils, bring a blessing, or the slaying in the Spirit to
an individual or yourself. You can use it to resist temptation, oppression
or influence by evil forces etc.
cont
I would ask whether it is better for you to be filled with the Holy
Spirit, speak in tongues which noone can understand, and none saved as a
result; or to be filled with the Holy Spirit, prophesy in a language that
man can understand and even just one person saved? Jesus didn't just come
to this earth so that we could enter into a personal relationship with
God, but as stated in John 3:16 - "For God so loved the world, that He
gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in Him shall not
perish, but have everlasting life."
Why does everything have to be about impressing others for their salvation?
It is better that YOU first perfect yourself with ALL of the righteousness,
truths, knowledge, wisdom and power of God with the Holy Spirit in ALL of
the ways manifested than to be concerned with changing others hearts. When
you have come into the fullness of God, your presence is a great testimony
in of itself, without ANY words being said and when you are on fire with the
Holy Spirit, certainly that is an undeniable testimony that others will be
impressed with for the changing of their own hearts.
cont
Jesus came so that man could be saved
from sin and death. Everything else is just gravy. Having a relationship
with the creator, speaking to Him and being spoken to Him is certainly
good. Being set free from our sins and bondage is better. But leading
someone to Jesus, even just planting a seed, is the best! Nothing gives me
more joy in the Lord than planting a seed of his love.
First of all, in order to BE saved, you have to HAVE the Holy Spirit
manifestation, and in order for the Holy Spirit to come and dwell within
you, you must first repent of all sins and become purified for the Holy
Spirit cannot dwell with iniquity. So the two are completely related and
necessary for both salvation and power. There is NOTHING better, not even
leading another to salvation, than your own personal relationship with God,
making certain that you have DONE ALL in servitude and obedience to Him, for
what good is it, if you simply only come to believe in the cross and then
never take another step closer to God and maybe plant a seed in another, and
he too, never takes another step closer to God, both will NOT be saved, for
salvation doesn't come ONLY by belief, but obedience, purity, righteousness,
holiness and perfection is required.
cont
But, I would like to draw your attention to some verses NOT written by
Paul.
First, your assertion that tongues is necessary to "remove and cause
devils to flee" is not doctrinal.
Revelations 12:11 says "And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and
by the word of their testimony, and they did not love their lives to the
death". Who are "they"? "They" are "our brethern", that is us. Who is
"him"? The enemy the devil. We don't need tongues to overcome devils and
demons, because our own testimonies about how Jesus saved us by the
shedding of his blood is enough.
I don't care if it is doctrinal or not, it is truth for it DOES cast out
demons. Tongues is required for you to be considered a believer.
Mark 16:18
17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they
cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
KJV
And simply stating that you are saved, is NOT enough, for as I said, in
order to be saved, you must believe, if you believe, then you OBEY every
word out of the mouth of God, and if you want to remove ALL evil and sin
from your life, you are going to need more power than a simple statement of
faith.
cont
James 4:7 reads, "Resist the devil and he will flee from you." - I don't
even need to open my mouth. All I have to do is resist.
And it is easier to resist, if you have the power of the Holy Spirit to do
it.
1 Peter 5:8,9 - "Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the
devil walks about like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour. Resist
him, steadfast in the faith, knowing the same sufferings are experienced
by your brotherhood in the world." - Again, resistance is enough.
No, resistance is not enough, for clearly Peter states that you must be
STEADFAST in FAITH.
cont
Now, you also assert that evidence of the Holy Spirit is tongues, however,
I counter that it is only _an_ evidence, and that love is _the_ evidence
of the Holy Spirit.
ALL people love, even the wicked and sinful, but in order to be a servant of
God and a follower of Christ, the power of the Holy Spirit manifested is
required. In fact, with the power of the Holy Spirit, manifested in tongues,
your love is increased.
cont
1 John 4:12(b)-16 - "If we love one another, God abides in us, and His
love has been perfected in us. By this we know that we abide in Him and HE
in use, because He has given us of His spirit. And we have seen and
testify that the Father has sent the Son as Saviour of the world. Whoever
confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in Him, and he in God.
And we have known and believed the love that God has for us. God is love,
and he who abides in love abides in God, and God in him."
If you read through the New Testament - Paul's writings included - the
most common theme is love: God's love for us through Jesus; Our love for
God; Our love for one another, God's love for the world. And throughout,
love is exemplified as the evidence of the Spirit or the evidence of our
faith in Jesus.
As I said, your faith then requires your obedience. You cannot love
perfectly if there is any sin or iniquity on your soul. As I said, also that
the gift of tongues is the manifestation of the indwelling of the Holy
Spirit.
cont
Another point: Do you not know how powerless our enemy is? Even the most
insignificant angel has dominion over him.
And MAN does NOT, unless he has the power of the Holy Spirit.
Revelations 20:1 - Then I saw _an angel_ coming down from heaven, having
the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. He laid hold
of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound
him for a thousand years. [note: an insignificant angel that has NO name
of record!]
And we, as children of God, are in dominion over even the angels, just as
our Father is in dominion over all creation. How much more so are we in
dominion over the enemy and his minions?
Man has NO dominion over angels, who are you kidding? But because you think
so, then are you stating that once you believed that you have never sinned
henceforth? If not, then at the time of your sin, the devils had dominion
over you.
cont
And finally, before you discard Paul, know that he was commissioned by the
Holy Spirit as written in Acts 13:1-3 (v2: As they ministered to the Lord
and fasted, the Holy Spirit said, "Now separate to Me Barnabus and Saul
for the work to which I have called them."). When God calls someone to a
ministry, it is not a small thing for another to say that he is "an
idiot". Personally, I would be very, very careful about calling anyone
called by God "an idiot" with regards to their calling, even if they were
the dictionary definition of 'idiot'.
Paul was a MAN, called of God or not. Men make mistakes and Paul is NO
exception. Saying such a ridiculous thing as Paul did, defines that
statement as idiocy, thus my anger at his grave error caused me to define
Paul as an idiot, for he was at that time. I don't discard Paul, in fact, I
had a difficult time forgiving him for his errors, however, there are many
truths that Paul spoke and since the truth is all I am concerned about, I
also bless Paul for some of his righteous statements. If someone is being an
idiot, I call them as I see em.
cont
God bless you Dore. Don't discount what Paul said. He was commissioned by
God to take the gospel to us, the gentile.
I KNOW what Paul's commissioning was, for it was I who called him and sent
him on it. He did his work by bringing the gospel to the gentiles and is
rewarded for his work, however, NOT all that Paul said is absolute truth and
thus since man has the whole Bible at his disposal, there is NO need to
believe every single word of Paul, but more importantly, believe every
single word that I said, in the gospels.
--
Dore
www.dorewilliamson.com
"alt" <spamtrap@lazyeyez.net> wrote in message
news:pan.2005.05.29.06.19.20.355223@lazyeyez.net...
On Sun, 29 May 2005 02:03:08 +0000, Dore wrote:
"Don" <- - - - - --- somebody@worldwide.net> wrote in message
news:do9g91tm7gtthn5iq0dcuglbjrs6128a8c@4ax.com...
On Sat, 28 May 2005 00:36:40 GMT, "Dore" <dorewilliamson@verizon.net>
wrote:
Paul is an idiot.
Are you saying that in the name of Jesus?
Then you said:
1) Speaking in tongues, therefore
2) being FILLED with the Holy Spirit,
3) manifesting the POWER of GOD...
... is certainly a wonderful and awesome gift,
You just listed three UNRELATED terms altogether. They are not
synonymous. If you were really "manifesting the POWER of GOD," you
would have had the self-control to not call Paul an idiot.
Obviously, YOU don't have the gift of tongues, therefore have NO clue of
what it is all about. It IS the manifestation of the Holy Spirit and it
IS
power, and anyone who thinks that speaking words for people to
understand,
whether they listen or not, is better than the Holy Spirit's gifts, His
power and HIS manifestation IS an idiot, even Paul.
Wow. Those are very damning words, Dore. You've thrown out roughly 30% of
the text of the New Testament. (In retrospect, I figured Paul's writings
were more voluminous than that, but now that I think about it, I'm glad
that Paul's letters do not make up a majority of the New Testament, as it
ensures that we cannot be accused of following Paul instead of Jesus.)
My experience is that the world does not look at glossolalia tongues in
awe or fear, but they look upon those that speak as religious nut jobs.
However, if you have the gift of prophecy and speak the truth, people will
be in awe of that, or at least respect you. The gift of tongues, as
displayed in Acts, was used for the benefit of those visiting from foreign
lands.
Paul made the point in 1 Corinthians 14:1-5. To paraphrase,
'[prayer] tongues are for speaking to God and prophesy is for speaking to
Man.' You stated earlier: "Speaking in tongues, therefore being FILLED
with the Holy Spirit, manifesting the POWER of GOD is certainly a
wonderful and awesome gift, which Paul should appreciate rather than
pretend that his speaking in a known language for others to understand is
better, for it is NOT."
I would ask whether it is better for you to be filled with the Holy
Spirit, speak in tongues which noone can understand, and none saved as a
result; or to be filled with the Holy Spirit, prophesy in a language that
man can understand and even just one person saved? Jesus didn't just come
to this earth so that we could enter into a personal relationship with
God, but as stated in John 3:16 - "For God so loved the world, that He
gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in Him shall not
perish, but have everlasting life." Jesus came so that man could be saved
from sin and death. Everything else is just gravy. Having a relationship
with the creator, speaking to Him and being spoken to Him is certainly
good. Being set free from our sins and bondage is better. But leading
someone to Jesus, even just planting a seed, is the best! Nothing gives me
more joy in the Lord than planting a seed of his love.
But, I would like to draw your attention to some verses NOT written by
Paul.
First, your assertion that tongues is necessary to "remove and cause
devils to flee" is not doctrinal.
Revelations 12:11 says "And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and
by the word of their testimony, and they did not love their lives to the
death". Who are "they"? "They" are "our brethern", that is us. Who is
"him"? The enemy the devil. We don't need tongues to overcome devils and
demons, because our own testimonies about how Jesus saved us by the
shedding of his blood is enough.
James 4:7 reads, "Resist the devil and he will flee from you." - I don't
even need to open my mouth. All I have to do is resist.
1 Peter 5:8,9 - "Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the
devil walks about like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour. Resist
him, steadfast in the faith, knowing the same sufferings are experienced
by your brotherhood in the world." - Again, resistance is enough.
Now, you also assert that evidence of the Holy Spirit is tongues, however,
I counter that it is only _an_ evidence, and that love is _the_ evidence
of the Holy Spirit.
1 John 4:12(b)-16 - "If we love one another, God abides in us, and His
love has been perfected in us. By this we know that we abide in Him and HE
in use, because He has given us of His spirit. And we have seen and
testify that the Father has sent the Son as Saviour of the world. Whoever
confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in Him, and he in God.
And we have known and believed the love that God has for us. God is love,
and he who abides in love abides in God, and God in him."
If you read through the New Testament - Paul's writings included - the
most common theme is love: God's love for us through Jesus; Our love for
God; Our love for one another, God's love for the world. And throughout,
love is exemplified as the evidence of the Spirit or the evidence of our
faith in Jesus.
Another point: Do you not know how powerless our enemy is? Even the most
insignificant angel has dominion over him.
Revelations 20:1 - Then I saw _an angel_ coming down from heaven, having
the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. He laid hold
of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound
him for a thousand years. [note: an insignificant angel that has NO name
of record!]
And we, as children of God, are in dominion over even the angels, just as
our Father is in dominion over all creation. How much more so are we in
dominion over the enemy and his minions?
And finally, before you discard Paul, know that he was commissioned by the
Holy Spirit as written in Acts 13:1-3 (v2: As they ministered to the Lord
and fasted, the Holy Spirit said, "Now separate to Me Barnabus and Saul
for the work to which I have called them."). When God calls someone to a
ministry, it is not a small thing for another to say that he is "an
idiot". Personally, I would be very, very careful about calling anyone
called by God "an idiot" with regards to their calling, even if they were
the dictionary definition of 'idiot'.
God bless you Dore. Don't discount what Paul said. He was commissioned by
God to take the gospel to us, the gentile.
.
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| User: "Clover" |
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| Title: Re: PAUL , TONGUES AND "DEVOTIONAL PRAYER" |
31 May 2005 06:12:42 PM |
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In article <qPMme.4172$zb.228@trndny02>, "Dore"
<dorewilliamson@verizon.net> wrote:
Why should you care what other people, especially the evil, sinful and
wicked, think? Isn't it more important to care what God thinks? Of course,
if you use the gift of tongues to cast out evil spirits, bring a blessing or
some other powerful force, people will respect that. If you speak in
prophecy, you have to wait until the prophecy comes true before anyone will
respect you or be in awe of it.
What a LOAD of codswallop!!!!!
.
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| User: "alt" |
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| Title: Re: PAUL , TONGUES AND "DEVOTIONAL PRAYER" |
31 May 2005 03:02:56 AM |
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On Mon, 30 May 2005 22:53:10 +0000, Dore wrote:
I had a lot of verses quoted in rebuttal to your statements above, but
when I got down here, I just deleted them. I figure there's no point in
telling God what he already knows.
cont
And finally, before you discard Paul, know that he was commissioned by the
Holy Spirit as written in Acts 13:1-3 (v2: As they ministered to the Lord
and fasted, the Holy Spirit said, "Now separate to Me Barnabus and Saul
for the work to which I have called them."). When God calls someone to a
ministry, it is not a small thing for another to say that he is "an
idiot". Personally, I would be very, very careful about calling anyone
called by God "an idiot" with regards to their calling, even if they were
the dictionary definition of 'idiot'.
Paul was a MAN, called of God or not. Men make mistakes and Paul is NO
exception. Saying such a ridiculous thing as Paul did, defines that
statement as idiocy, thus my anger at his grave error caused me to define
Paul as an idiot, for he was at that time. I don't discard Paul, in fact, I
had a difficult time forgiving him for his errors, however, there are many
truths that Paul spoke and since the truth is all I am concerned about, I
also bless Paul for some of his righteous statements. If someone is being an
idiot, I call them as I see em.
Only a false god would have a "difficult time" forgiving.
Psalm 86:5
For You, Lord, are good, AND READY TO FORGIVE,
And abundant in mercy to all those who call upon you.
Psalm 103
8 The LORD is merciful and gracious,
Slow to anger,
and abounding in mercy
9 He will not always strive with us
Nor will He keep His anger forever.
10 He has not dealt with us according to our sins,
Nor punished us according to our iniquities
11 For as the heavens are high above the earth,
So great is his mercy toward those who fear Him;
12 As far as the east is from the west,
So far has He removed our transgressions from us.
17 But the mercy of the LORD is from everlasting to everlasting
On those who fear Him,
Psalm 116:5
Gracious is the LORD, and righteous;
Yes, our God is merciful
John 3:16-17
For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten
Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting
life. For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world,
but that the world through Him might be saved.
I John 1:9
If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us
our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
Eph 1:7-8
In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness
of sins, according to the riches of His grace which He made to (1)abound
towards us in all wisdom and (2)prudence.
1. abound (verb) be plentiful; overflow
2. or "understanding"
Eph 4:32
And be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one
another, even as God in Christ forgave you.
Mark 2:5
When Jesus saw their faith, He said to the paralytic, "Son,
your sins are forgiven you." (See how easy that was?)
The characteristics of God's forgiveness are that it is abundant and
freely given and easily obtained. His mercy, on which his forgiveness is
predicated, is boundless, unlimited and infinite!
God didn't send his Son to die because he wanted to hum and haw about
forgiveness. God sent his Son because he wants to forgive us, all he
requires is that we have a heart of repentance and believe, that is, have
faith in Him!
Inability to forgive is a trait of MAN! Lack of mercy is a trait of MAN!
cont
God bless you Dore. Don't discount what Paul said. He was commissioned by
God to take the gospel to us, the gentile.
I KNOW what Paul's commissioning was, for it was I who called him and sent
him on it.
You, personally, called Paul?
He did his work by bringing the gospel to the gentiles and is
rewarded for his work, however, NOT all that Paul said is absolute truth and
thus since man has the whole Bible at his disposal, there is NO need to
believe every single word of Paul, but more importantly, believe every
single word that I said, in the gospels.
"That I said"? Do you honestly believe that you are Jesus? Do you not
remember 'your' own words in Matthew 24:24? "For false christs and false
prophets will raise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if
possible, even the elect."
No, you are a false christ. Your spirit does not match the God of
scripture. It does not exhibit the fruits in Galatians 5:22,23. Or was
Paul full of ***** there too? Just how much of Paul's writing are garbage
to 'god'? Please, enlighten us.
Of course, I'm just calling this as I see it.
.
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| User: "Dore" |
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| Title: Re: PAUL , TONGUES AND "DEVOTIONAL PRAYER" |
01 Jun 2005 06:35:47 PM |
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"alt" <spamtrap@lazyeyez.net> wrote in message
news:pan.2005.05.31.08.02.53.370532@lazyeyez.net...
Only a false god would have a "difficult time" forgiving.
Not when the errors and acts have NOT been repented of. Do you see anywhere
where Paul repents of his errors, confessing each one individually? I don't
have to forgive ANYONE, even Paul, who does NOT repent. However, it is not
so much Paul that I blame, even though his influence determined the faith of
millions, but moreso modern hypocritical Christianity who, instead of using
discernment, righteousness, truth and righteous judgment in considering
scriptures, they just blatantly believe every word written in the Bible
without really thinking about what is being said, therefore being shallow,
superficial, complacent and false.
Luke 13:3
3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
KJV
Luke 17:3
3 Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him;
and IF HE REPENT, forgive him.
KJV
Rev 2:5
5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and REPENT, and do the
first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy
candlestick out of his place, EXCEPT THOU REPENT.
KJV
Rev 3:19
19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and
REPENT.
KJV
cont
The characteristics of God's forgiveness are that it is abundant and
freely given and easily obtained. His mercy, on which his forgiveness is
predicated, is boundless, unlimited and infinite!
IF YOU SINCERELY REPENT!
cont
God didn't send his Son to die because he wanted to hum and haw about
forgiveness. God sent his Son because he wants to forgive us, all he
requires is that we have a heart of repentance and believe, that is, have
faith in Him!
Having a heart of repentance, works ONLY IF you actually DO the repenting.
Most of you hypocritical, shallow Christians say all of the right words, but
NEVER actually DO the words that you state. Did YOU cry with great grief
over the sins that you have committed against God? Have you been so
sorrowful that it made your heart so heavy that you couldn't even bear the
sin within yourself and hated it?
cont
Inability to forgive is a trait of MAN! Lack of mercy is a trait of MAN!
If man continues to sin and be evil, and his repentance is superficial,
shallow and meaningless, just stating the words without feeling the emotions
that go along with it, then there is NO forgiveness, nor any deserving. That
is why there is a place called hell.
cont
"That I said"? Do you honestly believe that you are Jesus? Do you not
remember 'your' own words in Matthew 24:24? "For false christs and false
prophets will raise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if
possible, even the elect."
So how many great signs and wonders have I shown YOU to deceive you or
anyone?
cont
No, you are a false christ. Your spirit does not match the God of
scripture. It does not exhibit the fruits in Galatians 5:22,23. Or was
Paul full of ***** there too?
Obviously, you are so busy studying Paul that you have neglected the second
coming scriptures and the "fruits" thereof.
Isa 63:3-10
3 I have trodden the winepress alone; and of the people there was none with
me: for I will tread them in mine anger, and trample them in my fury; and
their blood shall be sprinkled upon my garments, and I will stain all my
raiment.
4 For the day of vengeance is in mine heart, and the year of my redeemed is
come.
5 And I looked, and there was none to help; and I wondered that there was
none to uphold: therefore mine own arm brought salvation unto me; and my
fury, it upheld me.
6 And I will tread down the people in mine anger, and make them drunk in my
fury, and I will bring down their strength to the earth.
7 I will mention the lovingkindnesss of the LORD, and the praises of the
LORD, according to all that the LORD hath bestowed on us, and the great
goodness toward the house of Israel, which he hath bestowed on them
according to his mercies, and according to the multitude of his
lovingkindnesss.
8 For he said, Surely they are my people, children that will not lie: so he
was their Saviour.
9 In all their affliction he was afflicted, and the angel of his presence
saved them: in his love and in his pity he redeemed them; and he bare them,
and carried them all the days of old.
10 But they rebelled, and vexed his holy Spirit: therefore he was turned to
be their enemy, and he fought against them.
Isa 59:15-20
15 Yea, truth faileth; and he that departeth from evil maketh himself
a prey: and the LORD saw it, and it displeased him that there was no
judgment.
16 And he saw that there was no man, and wondered that there was no
intercessor: therefore his arm brought salvation unto him; and his
righteousness, it sustained him.
17 For he put on righteousness as a breastplate, and an helmet of
salvation upon his head; and he put on the garments of vengeance for
clothing, and was clad with zeal as a cloke.
18 According to their deeds, accordingly he will repay, fury to his
adversaries, recompence to his enemies; to the islands he will repay
recompence.
19 So shall they fear the name of the LORD from the west, and his
glory from the rising of the sun. When the enemy shall come in like a flood,
the Spirit of the LORD shall lift up a standard against him.
20 And the Redeemer shall come to Zion, and unto them that turn from
transgression in Jacob, saith the LORD.
(KJV)
Isa 30:27
27 Behold, the name of the LORD cometh from far, burning with his anger, and
the burden thereof is heavy: his lips are full of indignation, and his
tongue as a devouring fire:
(KJV)
Rev 2:16
16 Repent; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will fight against
them with the sword of my mouth.
KJV
Ps 2:12
12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his
wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in
him.
KJV
Rev 19:15-16
15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should
smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he
treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING
OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
John 12:48
48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that
judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the
last day.
Mal 3:18
18 Then shall ye return, and discern between the righteous and the
wicked, between him that serveth God and him that serveth him not.
(KJV)
Rev 3:19
19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and
repent.
KJV
cont
-- Just how much of Paul's writing are garbage
to 'god'? Please, enlighten us.
Why haven't you studied, live and experience MY words from the gospels to
know truth or why haven't you sought the righteousness of the Father, FIRST,
as you were told, to KNOW and have the ability to discern what is truth from
Paul and what is from his own opinion, concepts and beliefs?
Matt 6:33
33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness;
KJV
Dore
www.dorewilliamson.com
"alt" <spamtrap@lazyeyez.net> wrote in message
news:pan.2005.05.31.08.02.53.370532@lazyeyez.net...
On Mon, 30 May 2005 22:53:10 +0000, Dore wrote:
I had a lot of verses quoted in rebuttal to your statements above, but
when I got down here, I just deleted them. I figure there's no point in
telling God what he already knows.
cont
And finally, before you discard Paul, know that he was commissioned by
the
Holy Spirit as written in Acts 13:1-3 (v2: As they ministered to the
Lord
and fasted, the Holy Spirit said, "Now separate to Me Barnabus and Saul
for the work to which I have called them."). When God calls someone to a
ministry, it is not a small thing for another to say that he is "an
idiot". Personally, I would be very, very careful about calling anyone
called by God "an idiot" with regards to their calling, even if they
were
the dictionary definition of 'idiot'.
Paul was a MAN, called of God or not. Men make mistakes and Paul is NO
exception. Saying such a ridiculous thing as Paul did, defines that
statement as idiocy, thus my anger at his grave error caused me to define
Paul as an idiot, for he was at that time. I don't discard Paul, in fact,
I
had a difficult time forgiving him for his errors, however, there are
many
truths that Paul spoke and since the truth is all I am concerned about, I
also bless Paul for some of his righteous statements. If someone is being
an
idiot, I call them as I see em.
Only a false god would have a "difficult time" forgiving.
Psalm 86:5
For You, Lord, are good, AND READY TO FORGIVE,
And abundant in mercy to all those who call upon you.
Psalm 103
8 The LORD is merciful and gracious,
Slow to anger,
and abounding in mercy
9 He will not always strive with us
Nor will He keep His anger forever.
10 He has not dealt with us according to our sins,
Nor punished us according to our iniquities
11 For as the heavens are high above the earth,
So great is his mercy toward those who fear Him;
12 As far as the east is from the west,
So far has He removed our transgressions from us.
17 But the mercy of the LORD is from everlasting to everlasting
On those who fear Him,
Psalm 116:5
Gracious is the LORD, and righteous;
Yes, our God is merciful
John 3:16-17
For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten
Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting
life. For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world,
but that the world through Him might be saved.
I John 1:9
If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us
our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
Eph 1:7-8
In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness
of sins, according to the riches of His grace which He made to (1)abound
towards us in all wisdom and (2)prudence.
1. abound (verb) be plentiful; overflow
2. or "understanding"
Eph 4:32
And be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one
another, even as God in Christ forgave you.
Mark 2:5
When Jesus saw their faith, He said to the paralytic, "Son,
your sins are forgiven you." (See how easy that was?)
The characteristics of God's forgiveness are that it is abundant and
freely given and easily obtained. His mercy, on which his forgiveness is
predicated, is boundless, unlimited and infinite!
God didn't send his Son to die because he wanted to hum and haw about
forgiveness. God sent his Son because he wants to forgive us, all he
requires is that we have a heart of repentance and believe, that is, have
faith in Him!
Inability to forgive is a trait of MAN! Lack of mercy is a trait of MAN!
cont
God bless you Dore. Don't discount what Paul said. He was commissioned
by
God to take the gospel to us, the gentile.
I KNOW what Paul's commissioning was, for it was I who called him and
sent
him on it.
You, personally, called Paul?
He did his work by bringing the gospel to the gentiles and is
rewarded for his work, however, NOT all that Paul said is absolute truth
and
thus since man has the whole Bible at his disposal, there is NO need to
believe every single word of Paul, but more importantly, believe every
single word that I said, in the gospels.
"That I said"? Do you honestly believe that you are Jesus? Do you not
remember 'your' own words in Matthew 24:24? "For false christs and false
prophets will raise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if
possible, even the elect."
No, you are a false christ. Your spirit does not match the God of
scripture. It does not exhibit the fruits in Galatians 5:22,23. Or was
Paul full of ***** there too? Just how much of Paul's writing are garbage
to 'god'? Please, enlighten us.
Of course, I'm just calling this as I see it.
.
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| User: "alt" |
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| Title: Re: PAUL , TONGUES AND "DEVOTIONAL PRAYER" |
02 Jun 2005 02:12:45 AM |
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|
On Wed, 01 Jun 2005 23:35:47 +0000, Dore wrote:
"alt" <spamtrap@lazyeyez.net> wrote in message
news:pan.2005.05.31.08.02.53.370532@lazyeyez.net...
God didn't send his Son to die because he wanted to hum and haw about
forgiveness. God sent his Son because he wants to forgive us, all he
requires is that we have a heart of repentance and believe, that is, have
faith in Him!
Having a heart of repentance, works ONLY IF you actually DO the repenting.
Most of you hypocritical, shallow Christians say all of the right words, but
NEVER actually DO the words that you state. Did YOU cry with great grief
over the sins that you have committed against God? Have you been so
sorrowful that it made your heart so heavy that you couldn't even bear the
sin within yourself and hated it?
If you were God, you would know, but you are not God and you do not know.
You do not know of the tears I shed because of my sinful condition nor do
you know the struggles I face every day.
I'll bet you don't even know something as simple as my birth name. You
don't know the name of my sister or how old she is. You don't know me,
because you are not God. My God, who led the Israelites out of Egypt and
sent his Son to die on the cross for me and raised Him up on the third day
does know me. He even knows the name I was born with.
Every time you open your mouth, Dore, you prove that you are not God.
Jesus died on the cross and uttered "It is finished" meaning 'debt paid in
full'. Then he rose on the third day defeating death and the devil once
and for all.
And His second coming will be as glorious as his ascension.
cont
"That I said"? Do you honestly believe that you are Jesus? Do you not
remember 'your' own words in Matthew 24:24? "For false christs and false
prophets will raise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if
possible, even the elect."
So how many great signs and wonders have I shown YOU to deceive you or
anyone?
For starters, you have not deceived me. I see right through your façade
because I have the Holy Spirit of Truth within me telling me what the
truth is. And I'll tell you know, he hates what you are doing, but he
still loves you.
I see through and know the truth written in scripture:
Matt 24:29-31 (Also, Mark 13:24-27) - Immediately after the tribulation
of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its
light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will
be shaken. Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the heaven, and
then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of
Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And He will
send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather
together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the
other.
Luke 21:27 - Then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with
power and great glory.
Revelations 19:11-16
But I don't see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with you. What I'd
_really_ like to know is why the Son of Man has decided to come back by
being born yet again! And this time, it's not even a miraculous birth!
Just standard "in and out" conception.
cont
No, you are a false christ. Your spirit does not match the God of
scripture. It does not exhibit the fruits in Galatians 5:22,23. Or was
Paul full of ***** there too?
Obviously, you are so busy studying Paul that you have neglected the second
coming scriptures and the "fruits" thereof.
No, the second coming scriptures are quite clear that "the Son of Man will
come on the clouds". You see, I read what Jesus said about His second
coming.
Now, I'd like to tell you a story about another man who thought he was the
Second coming of Jesus. He was born November 1817 using the tried-and-true
conception method colloquially known as the horizontal mambo, and he too
claimed to be the second coming of christ. He used Biblical scripture to
support the assertion that he was the "Spirit of Truth". Baha'u'llah died
in May of 1892.
Dore, you too shall die. Death will defeat you as it has every other
natural born human since the dawn of time and you will stand in judgement
before the creator - before Jesus.
I, too, shall die one day. And when I die, Jesus will be there saying,
"It's okay. He's one of mine. I paid the penalty for his sin." I know my
name will be found in the Book of Life. Can you say the same?
I pray that the Lord will show you the true path and the true saviour so
that you too can be saved.
.
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| User: "Dore" |
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| Title: Re: PAUL , TONGUES AND "DEVOTIONAL PRAYER" |
04 Jun 2005 08:52:38 PM |
|
|
alt" <spamtrap@lazyeyez.net> wrote in message
news:pan.2005.06.02.07.12.42.648476@lazyeyez.net...
If you were God, you would know, but you are not God and you do not know.
You do not know of the tears I shed because of my sinful condition nor do
you know the struggles I face every day.
I'll bet you don't even know something as simple as my birth name. You
don't know the name of my sister or how old she is. You don't know me,
because you are not God. My God, who led the Israelites out of Egypt and
sent his Son to die on the cross for me and raised Him up on the third day
does know me. He even knows the name I was born with.
Every time you open your mouth, Dore, you prove that you are not God.
Careless, foolish, superficial man, I did not return to fulfill your
fantasies.
cont
Jesus died on the cross and uttered "It is finished" meaning 'debt paid in
full'. Then he rose on the third day defeating death and the devil once
and for all.
NO, I said it was finished because my work at that time was completed. I
rose on the third day defeating death and sin, so YOU would have the
opportunity to be forgiven of your sins, if you repent, as well as be saved,
if you obeyed MY words completely.
cont
And His second coming will be as glorious as his ascension.
How convenient, ignorant, blind, careless and foolish to ignore the
prophecies I have given you for your fantasies, lies, hypocritical and
apostate Christianity. When I DO rise to be revealed and am glorified, you
will wail in great horror and regret for this day.
cont
For starters, you have not deceived me. I see right through your façade
because I have the Holy Spirit of Truth within me telling me what the
truth is. And I'll tell you know, he hates what you are doing, but he
still loves you.
Do you speak in tongues? Have you repented of all sin and stopped sinning?
Have you forsaken ALL things of the earth, money, jobs, careers,
possessions, family, sex, homes and lands to be a true disciple for the sake
of the kingdom? Have you sought the righteousness of God and attained it?
Are you pure, holy, righteous, sinless and blameless? If you answered NO to
any of these questions, then you do NOT have the Holy Spirit of truth, for
He cannot dwell with iniquity. And your denial of me is evidence that you
have NOT the Holy Spirit of truth dwelling in you.
cont
I see through and know the truth written in scripture:
Matt 24:29-31 (Also, Mark 13:24-27) - Immediately after the tribulation
of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its
light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will
be shaken. Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the heaven, and
then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of
Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And He will
send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather
together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the
other.
Luke 21:27 - Then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with
power and great glory.
Revelations 19:11-16
But I don't see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with you. What I'd
_really_ like to know is why the Son of Man has decided to come back by
being born yet again! And this time, it's not even a miraculous birth!
Just standard "in and out" conception.
The tribulation and the destruction of the wicked, sinners and hypocrites,
as in the days of Noah, which is the tribulation, spoken above, has not yet
occurred, but it is coming. I suppose you think that I will come down, fully
an adult in some glorious rapture, thus your denying all of the prophecies
spoken about from the prophets, and having NO concept of the REALITY of the
return, just yours and modern Christianities fantasies, lies, deceptions and
myths. You cannot even interpret symbolic and prophetic scriptures, which is
more evidence that the Holy Spirit of truth, does NOT dwell within you. I
have come in the clouds, meaning obscurity. Now read, consider and THINK!
Isa 9:6-7
6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government
shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful,
Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon
the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it
with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of
the LORD of hosts will perform this.
Isa 28:9-13
9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to
understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the
breasts.
10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon
line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:
11 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this
people.
12 To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary
to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.
13 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept,
precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and
there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and
snared, and taken.
(KJV)
Luke 17:24-25
24 For as the lightning, that lighteneth out of the one part under
heaven, shineth unto the other part under heaven; so shall also the Son of
man be in his day.
25 But first must he suffer many things, and be rejected of this
generation.
Isa 63:3-10
3 I have trodden the winepress alone; and of the people there was none with
me: for I will tread them in mine anger, and trample them in my fury; and
their blood shall be sprinkled upon my garments, and I will stain all my
raiment.
4 For the day of vengeance is in mine heart, and the year of my redeemed is
come.
5 And I looked, and there was none to help; and I wondered that there was
none to uphold: therefore mine own arm brought salvation unto me; and my
fury, it upheld me.
6 And I will tread down the people in mine anger, and make them drunk in my
fury, and I will bring down their strength to the earth.
7 I will mention the lovingkindnesss of the LORD, and the praises of the
LORD, according to all that the LORD hath bestowed on us, and the great
goodness toward the house of Israel, which he hath bestowed on them
according to his mercies, and according to the multitude of his
lovingkindnesss.
8 For he said, Surely they are my people, children that will not lie: so he
was their Saviour.
9 In all their affliction he was afflicted, and the angel of his presence
saved them: in his love and in his pity he redeemed them; and he bare them,
and carried them all the days of old.
10 But they rebelled, and vexed his holy Spirit: therefore he was turned to
be their enemy, and he fought against them.
Isa 59:15-20
15 Yea, truth faileth; and he that departeth from evil maketh himself
a prey: and the LORD saw it, and it displeased him that there was no
judgment.
16 And he saw that there was no man, and wondered that there was no
intercessor: therefore his arm brought salvation unto him; and his
righteousness, it sustained him.
17 For he put on righteousness as a breastplate, and an helmet of
salvation upon his head; and he put on the garments of vengeance for
clothing, and was clad with zeal as a cloke.
18 According to their deeds, accordingly he will repay, fury to his
adversaries, recompence to his enemies; to the islands he will repay
recompence.
19 So shall they fear the name of the LORD from the west, and his
glory from the rising of the sun. When the enemy shall come in like a flood,
the Spirit of the LORD shall lift up a standard against him.
20 And the Redeemer shall come to Zion, and unto them that turn from
transgression in Jacob, saith the LORD.
(KJV)
Isa 53:1-54:1
53:1 Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD
revealed?
2 For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a
dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there
is no beauty that we should desire him.
3 He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with
grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we
esteemed him not.
4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did
esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.
5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our
iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes
we are healed.
6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own
way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is
brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is
dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.
8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his
generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the
transgression of my people was he stricken.
9 And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death;
because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.
10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when
thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he
shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his
hand.
11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his
knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their
iniquities.
12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide
the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death:
and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and
made intercession for the transgressors.
KJV
Isa 33:7-14
7 Behold, their valiant ones shall cry without: the ambassadors of
peace shall weep bitterly.
8 The highways lie waste, the wayfaring man ceaseth: he hath broken
the covenant, he hath despised the cities, he regardeth no man.
9 The earth mourneth and languisheth: Lebanon is ashamed and hewn
down: Sharon is like a wilderness; and Bashan and Carmel shake off their
fruits.
10 Now will I rise, saith the LORD; now will I be exalted; now will I
lift up myself.
11 Ye shall conceive chaff, ye shall bring forth stubble: your
breath, as fire, shall devour you.
12 And the people shall be as the burnings of lime: as thorns cut up
shall they be burned in the fire.
13 Hear, ye that are far off, what I have done; and, ye that are
near, acknowledge my might.
14 The sinners in Zion are afraid; fearfulness hath surprised the
hypocrites. Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? who among us
shall dwell with everlasting burnings?
(KJV)
cont
Dore, you too shall die. Death will defeat you as it has every other
natural born human since the dawn of time and you will stand in judgement
before the creator - before Jesus.
Foolish man, you don't know to whom you are speaking...
Matt 10:33
33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my
Father which is in heaven.
KJV
--
Dore
www.dorewilliamson.com
"alt" <spamtrap@lazyeyez.net> wrote in message
news:pan.2005.06.02.07.12.42.648476@lazyeyez.net...
On Wed, 01 Jun 2005 23:35:47 +0000, Dore wrote:
"alt" <spamtrap@lazyeyez.net> wrote in message
news:pan.2005.05.31.08.02.53.370532@lazyeyez.net...
God didn't send his Son to die because he wanted to hum and haw about
forgiveness. God sent his Son because he wants to forgive us, all he
requires is that we have a heart of repentance and believe, that is,
have
faith in Him!
Having a heart of repentance, works ONLY IF you actually DO the
repenting.
Most of you hypocritical, shallow Christians say all of the right words,
but
NEVER actually DO the words that you state. Did YOU cry with great grief
over the sins that you have committed against God? Have you been so
sorrowful that it made your heart so heavy that you couldn't even bear
the
sin within yourself and hated it?
If you were God, you would know, but you are not God and you do not know.
You do not know of the tears I shed because of my sinful condition nor do
you know the struggles I face every day.
I'll bet you don't even know something as simple as my birth name. You
don't know the name of my sister or how old she is. You don't know me,
because you are not God. My God, who led the Israelites out of Egypt and
sent his Son to die on the cross for me and raised Him up on the third day
does know me. He even knows the name I was born with.
Every time you open your mouth, Dore, you prove that you are not God.
Jesus died on the cross and uttered "It is finished" meaning 'debt paid in
full'. Then he rose on the third day defeating death and the devil once
and for all.
And His second coming will be as glorious as his ascension.
cont
"That I said"? Do you honestly believe that you are Jesus? Do you not
remember 'your' own words in Matthew 24:24? "For false christs and false
prophets will raise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if
possible, even the elect."
So how many great signs and wonders have I shown YOU to deceive you or
anyone?
For starters, you have not deceived me. I see right through your façade
because I have the Holy Spirit of Truth within me telling me what the
truth is. And I'll tell you know, he hates what you are doing, but he
still loves you.
I see through and know the truth written in scripture:
Matt 24:29-31 (Also, Mark 13:24-27) - Immediately after the tribulation
of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its
light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will
be shaken. Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the heaven, and
then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of
Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And He will
send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather
together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the
other.
Luke 21:27 - Then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with
power and great glory.
Revelations 19:11-16
But I don't see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with you. What I'd
_really_ like to know is why the Son of Man has decided to come back by
being born yet again! And this time, it's not even a miraculous birth!
Just standard "in and out" conception.
cont
No, you are a false christ. Your spirit does not match the God of
scripture. It does not exhibit the fruits in Galatians 5:22,23. Or was
Paul full of ***** there too?
Obviously, you are so busy studying Paul that you have neglected the
second
coming scriptures and the "fruits" thereof.
No, the second coming scriptures are quite clear that "the Son of Man will
come on the clouds". You see, I read what Jesus said about His second
coming.
Now, I'd like to tell you a story about another man who thought he was the
Second coming of Jesus. He was born November 1817 using the tried-and-true
conception method colloquially known as the horizontal mambo, and he too
claimed to be the second coming of christ. He used Biblical scripture to
support the assertion that he was the "Spirit of Truth". Baha'u'llah died
in May of 1892.
Dore, you too shall die. Death will defeat you as it has every other
natural born human since the dawn of time and you will stand in judgement
before the creator - before Jesus.
I, too, shall die one day. And when I die, Jesus will be there saying,
"It's okay. He's one of mine. I paid the penalty for his sin." I know my
name will be found in the Book of Life. Can you say the same?
I pray that the Lord will show you the true path and the true saviour so
that you too can be saved.
.
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| User: "alt" |
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| Title: Re: PAUL , TONGUES AND "DEVOTIONAL PRAYER" |
04 Jun 2005 09:40:03 PM |
|
|
On Sun, 05 Jun 2005 01:52:38 +0000, Dore wrote:
alt" <spamtrap@lazyeyez.net> wrote in message
news:pan.2005.06.02.07.12.42.648476@lazyeyez.net...
If you were God, you would know, but you are not God and you do not know.
You do not know of the tears I shed because of my sinful condition nor do
you know the struggles I face every day.
I'll bet you don't even know something as simple as my birth name. You
don't know the name of my sister or how old she is. You don't know me,
because you are not God. My God, who led the Israelites out of Egypt and
sent his Son to die on the cross for me and raised Him up on the third day
does know me. He even knows the name I was born with.
Every time you open your mouth, Dore, you prove that you are not God.
Careless, foolish, superficial man, I did not return to fulfill your
fantasies.
There's no fantasy about what I've asked you. These are hard facts. These
things are who I am. You dismissal of them shows, yet again, your lack of
deity and divinity.
Jesus knew Nathaneal and He knows me too.
.
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| User: "Dore" |
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| Title: Re: PAUL , TONGUES AND "DEVOTIONAL PRAYER" |
05 Jun 2005 01:33:33 AM |
|
|
"alt" <spamtrap@lazyeyez.net> wrote in message
news:pan.2005.06.05.02.40.01.50979@lazyeyez.net...
There's no fantasy about what I've asked you. These are hard facts. These
things are who I am. You dismissal of them shows, yet again, your lack of
deity and divinity.
I don't BOW to you and your foolish demands that could only come from the
shallow, superficial and carnal minded, fantasies of your own making. It is
clear that you don't know ANYTHING about God, the purpose of the Son, in
this life and 2000 years ago, nor any Bible FACTS regarding this day of
JUDGMENT.
I don't have to know who you are or any small minor worthless details of
your life, your name or anything else. I JUDGE according to your spirit,
faith, heart and WORDS, AS THE SCRIPTURE TOLD YOU I WOULD. Your words speak
volumes of where your heart and spirit are and it is clear that they are NOT
in the Spirit and TRUTH as you were told to walk in.
Matt 12:36-37
36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall
give account thereof in the day of judgment.
37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be
condemned.
KJV
Matt 12:34
34 O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for
out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.
KJV
Matt 15:11
11 Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh
out of the mouth, this defileth a man.
KJV
Luke 6:45-7:1
45 A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that
which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart
bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his
mouth speaketh.
46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?
47 Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will
shew you to whom he is like:
48 He is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the
foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently
upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock.
49 But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without a
foundation built an house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat
vehemently, and immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great.
KJV
cont
Jesus knew Nathaneal and He knows me too.
You are an arrogant, self-righteous, immature child of a superficial and
shallow faith, who have never DONE one word that the gospel requires, but
rely on your own fantasies and lies that modern Christianity has taught you.
I know you, your words reveal volumes about you and NONE of them are
congruent with obedience and the Holy Spirit of truth, but with hypocrisy,
shallowness, disobedience, apostasy, neglect and complacency.
I am seeking those who are like the angels, who have obeyed every word out
of the mouth of God, who are pure, righteous, holy, sinless, perfect and
blameless who walk in spirit and truth in the kingdom of God, having
attained the full knowledge, wisdom and righteousness of God, NOT
self-serving, complacent, fantasy myth believers who have NO concept of GOD
in REALITY in the second coming.
--
Dore
www.dorewilliamson.com
"alt" <spamtrap@lazyeyez.net> wrote in message
news:pan.2005.06.05.02.40.01.50979@lazyeyez.net...
On Sun, 05 Jun 2005 01:52:38 +0000, Dore wrote:
alt" <spamtrap@lazyeyez.net> wrote in message
news:pan.2005.06.02.07.12.42.648476@lazyeyez.net...
If you were God, you would know, but you are not God and you do not
know.
You do not know of the tears I shed because of my sinful condition nor
do
you know the struggles I face every day.
I'll bet you don't even know something as simple as my birth name. You
don't know the name of my sister or how old she is. You don't know me,
because you are not God. My God, who led the Israelites out of Egypt and
sent his Son to die on the cross for me and raised Him up on the third
day
does know me. He even knows the name I was born with.
Every time you open your mouth, Dore, you prove that you are not God.
Careless, foolish, superficial man, I did not return to fulfill your
fantasies.
There's no fantasy about what I've asked you. These are hard facts. These
things are who I am. You dismissal of them shows, yet again, your lack of
deity and divinity.
Jesus knew Nathaneal and He knows me too.
.
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| User: "alt" |
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| Title: Re: PAUL , TONGUES AND "DEVOTIONAL PRAYER" |
05 Jun 2005 04:23:23 PM |
|
|
On Sun, 05 Jun 2005 06:33:33 +0000, Dore wrote:
"alt" <spamtrap@lazyeyez.net> wrote in message
news:pan.2005.06.05.02.40.01.50979@lazyeyez.net...
There's no fantasy about what I've asked you. These are hard facts. These
things are who I am. You dismissal of them shows, yet again, your lack of
deity and divinity.
I don't have to know who you are or any small minor worthless details of
your life, your name or anything else.
How can someone who claims to be God not know these things. The Word of
God, in Psalms 139:13-16, reads:
For You formed my inward parts;
You wove me in my mother's womb.
I will praise You, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made;
Marvelous are Your works,
And that my soul knows very well.
My frame was not hidden from You,
When I was made in secret,
And skillfully wrought in the lowest part of the earth.
Your eyes say my substance, being yet unformed.
And in You book they all were written,
The days fashioned for me,
When as yet there were none of them.
This is what the Bible says about God's knowledge of me. God is so
interested in me that he took the time to form me in my mother's womb!
And my sister is NOT a "small, minor, worthless" detail of my life, but
rather her life shaped the actions of my parents; who's actions shaped my
life from the root! But you would have known how IMPORTANT her life was to
mine if you were the all-knowing God!
I JUDGE according to your spirit,
faith, heart and WORDS, AS THE SCRIPTURE TOLD YOU I WOULD. Your words
speak volumes of where your heart and spirit are and it is clear that
they are NOT in the Spirit and TRUTH as you were told to walk in.
John 5:24 - Most Assuredly, I say to you, he who heard My word and
believes in Him who send Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into
judgment, but has passed from death into life.
You see, I have believed in Jesus and "the one who sent Him". I have
heard his word to "be born again" (John 3:3) and I am therefore no longer
in judgment.
Jesus knew Nathaneal and He knows me too.
You are an arrogant, self-righteous, immature child of a superficial and
shallow faith, who have never DONE one word that the gospel requires,
but rely on your own fantasies and lies that modern Christianity has
taught you.
I know you, your words reveal volumes about you and NONE of them are
congruent with obedience and the Holy Spirit of truth, but with
hypocrisy, shallowness, disobedience, apostasy, neglect and
complacency.
Because I reject Dore Williamson as the second coming of Christ? Suits me
just fine. I serve the resurrected one; born of a VIRGIN, dead 3 days and
risen again.
What I didn't know before talking to you were your failed prophecies of
the end times (and were taken to task for them!).
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/\
alt.religion.christian.last-days/msg/9383907991a71545
Matthew 7:15 says, "Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in
sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves." You are not only
a false Christ, but a false prophet!
I guess you well deserved that Usenet kook award. It takes a lot of energy
to position yourself for such a prestigious acknowledgment of your efforts.
.
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| User: "Dore" |
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| Title: Re: PAUL , TONGUES AND "DEVOTIONAL PRAYER" |
07 Jun 2005 08:10:41 PM |
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"alt" <spamtrap@lazyeyez.net> wrote in message
news:pan.2005.06.05.21.23.20.900076@lazyeyez.net...
How can someone who claims to be God not know these things. The Word of
God, in Psalms 139:13-16, reads:
The Father knows these things. I have returned in HUMAN flesh to fulfill my
works and purpose, NOT to know every tiny detail of every human's life. All
I need to know is your heart, spirit and faith, which is revealed according
to your words.
Matt 12:34-37
34 O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for
out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.
35 A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good
things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things.
36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall
give account thereof in the day of judgment.
37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be
condemned.
KJV
cont
This is what the Bible says about God's knowledge of me. God is so
interested in me that he took the time to form me in my mother's womb!
And my sister is NOT a "small, minor, worthless" detail of my life, but
rather her life shaped the actions of my parents; who's actions shaped my
life from the root! But you would have known how IMPORTANT her life was to
mine if you were the all-knowing God!
Yes, as I said, the FATHER is omniscient, omnipresent and all knowing, all I
do is fulfill the work that He sent me here to do. It doesn't matter about
your past, all that matters is where your heart, spirit, mind and faith is
at this time of judgment.
cont
John 5:24 - Most Assuredly, I say to you, he who heard My word and
believes in Him who send Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into
judgment, but has passed from death into life.
You see, I have believed in Jesus and "the one who sent Him". I have
heard his word to "be born again" (John 3:3) and I am therefore no longer
in judgment.
If you have believed My words, then you would have obeyed every single one
of them and become pure, holy, righteous, sinless, perfect and blameless and
had I found you in this obedience, then you would not be judged for there
would be nothing to judge, and only rewards would be given. Being born again
means that you have obeyed every word of the gospel, repented of all sin,
stopped sinning, have forsaken all things of this earth to become a new
child of God. And if you had obeyed and attained this righteousness, you
would be speaking words of truth, righteousness, purity and Godliness and
instead of arguing with me, agreeing with me, for we would be sharing the
same Holy Spirit of truth.
cont
Because I reject Dore Williamson as the second coming of Christ? Suits me
just fine. I serve the resurrected one; born of a VIRGIN, dead 3 days and
risen again.
Fine, then condemnation must suit you just fine, because there is NO other
Christ coming to redeem you.
cont
What I didn't know before talking to you were your failed prophecies of
the end times (and were taken to task for them!).
I made ONE error and that was simply the timeline that the events would
occur and have explained that completely many times.
cont
Matthew 7:15 says, "Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in
sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves." You are not only
a false Christ, but a false prophet!
I guess you well deserved that Usenet kook award. It takes a lot of energy
to position yourself for such a prestigious acknowledgment of your
efforts.
Well, since you have judged me thusly, have not forgiven me, although I have
repented of that error, and have rejected me, simply because I made ONE
error, than ALL mistakes you have ever made will be held against you and you
will be justified in hell for each and every one of them.
Matt 7:2
2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure
ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
KJV
Matt 6:14-15
14 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also
forgive you:
15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father
forgive your trespasses.
KJV
--
Dore
www.dorewilliamson.com
"alt" <spamtrap@lazyeyez.net> wrote in message
news:pan.2005.06.05.21.23.20.900076@lazyeyez.net...
On Sun, 05 Jun 2005 06:33:33 +0000, Dore wrote:
"alt" <spamtrap@lazyeyez.net> wrote in message
news:pan.2005.06.05.02.40.01.50979@lazyeyez.net...
There's no fantasy about what I've asked you. These are hard facts.
These
things are who I am. You dismissal of them shows, yet again, your lack
of
deity and divinity.
I don't have to know who you are or any small minor worthless details of
your life, your name or anything else.
How can someone who claims to be God not know these things. The Word of
God, in Psalms 139:13-16, reads:
For You formed my inward parts;
You wove me in my mother's womb.
I will praise You, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made;
Marvelous are Your works,
And that my soul knows very well.
My frame was not hidden from You,
When I was made in secret,
And skillfully wrought in the lowest part of the earth.
Your eyes say my substance, being yet unformed.
And in You book they all were written,
The days fashioned for me,
When as yet there were none of them.
This is what the Bible says about God's knowledge of me. God is so
interested in me that he took the time to form me in my mother's womb!
And my sister is NOT a "small, minor, worthless" detail of my life, but
rather her life shaped the actions of my parents; who's actions shaped my
life from the root! But you would have known how IMPORTANT her life was to
mine if you were the all-knowing God!
I JUDGE according to your spirit,
faith, heart and WORDS, AS THE SCRIPTURE TOLD YOU I WOULD. Your words
speak volumes of where your heart and spirit are and it is clear that
they are NOT in the Spirit and TRUTH as you were told to walk in.
John 5:24 - Most Assuredly, I say to you, he who heard My word and
believes in Him who send Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into
judgment, but has passed from death into life.
You see, I have believed in Jesus and "the one who sent Him". I have
heard his word to "be born again" (John 3:3) and I am therefore no longer
in judgment.
Jesus knew Nathaneal and He knows me too.
You are an arrogant, self-righteous, immature child of a superficial and
shallow faith, who have never DONE one word that the gospel requires,
but rely on your own fantasies and lies that modern Christianity has
taught you.
I know you, your words reveal volumes about you and NONE of them are
congruent with obedience and the Holy Spirit of truth, but with
hypocrisy, shallowness, disobedience, apostasy, neglect and
complacency.
Because I reject Dore Williamson as the second coming of Christ? Suits me
just fine. I serve the resurrected one; born of a VIRGIN, dead 3 days and
risen again.
What I didn't know before talking to you were your failed prophecies of
the end times (and were taken to task for them!).
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/\alt.religion.christian.last-days/msg/9383907991a71545
Matthew 7:15 says, "Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in
sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves." You are not only
a false Christ, but a false prophet!
I guess you well deserved that Usenet kook award. It takes a lot of energy
to position yourself for such a prestigious acknowledgment of your
efforts.
.
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| User: "alt" |
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| Title: Re: PAUL , TONGUES AND "DEVOTIONAL PRAYER" |
07 Jun 2005 11:35:42 PM |
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On Wed, 08 Jun 2005 01:10:41 +0000, Dore wrote:
"alt" <spamtrap@lazyeyez.net> wrote in message
news:pan.2005.06.05.21.23.20.900076@lazyeyez.net...
How can someone who claims to be God not know these things. The Word of
God, in Psalms 139:13-16, reads:
The Father knows these things. I have returned in HUMAN flesh to fulfill my
works and purpose, NOT to know every tiny detail of every human's life. All
I need to know is your heart, spirit and faith, which is revealed according
to your words.
Matt 12:34-37
34 O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for
out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.
35 A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good
things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things.
36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall
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