On Fri, 21 Sep 2007 02:23:42 -0700, Martin Phipps
<phippsmartin@hotmail.com> wrote:

On Sep 21, 9:28 am, Dave Oldridge <doldr...@leavethisoutshaw.ca>
wrote:

Martin Phipps <phippsmar...@hotmail.com> wrote
innews:1190254130.028747.13630@q3g2000prf.googlegroups.com:

On Sep 20, 1:01 am, Dave Oldridge <doldr...@leavethisoutshaw.ca>
wrote:

Martin Phipps <martinphip...@yahoo.com> wrote
innews:1190173303.940365.290240@k35g2000prh.googlegroups.com:

On Sep 19, 3:31 am, Dave Oldridge
<doldr...@leavethisoutshaw.ca> wrote:

Christopher A.Lee <ca...@optonline.net> wrote
innews:5qpse39k71pc75ab7lbetc7ni1jolflbqf@4ax.com:

On Sat, 15 Sep 2007 20:15:45 -0700, Martin Phipps
<martinphip...@yahoo.com> wrote:

On Sep 16, 9:07 am, Dave Oldridge
<doldr...@leavethisoutshaw.ca> wrote:

Martin Phipps <phippsmar...@hotmail.com> wrote
innews:1189871531.196022.310730@o80g2000hse.googlegroups.co
m:

"Dad", you're entitled to your religion, but all the
evidence tells us that it is utter fiction.

All the evidence tells ME is that a lot of atheists
BELIEVE it to be utter fiction. That doesn't make them
right.

Somebody tell the lying priest the difference between
"conclude" and "believe", and not to replace the one
carrying the intended meaning with one that doesn't.

The only thing the lying atheist fundy pig CONCLUDES is that
HE is the only god there is. Like all his fundy brothers,
he's a flaming narcissist and a liar.

Atheists also believe Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny are
fiction. That doesn't mean they are real.

Atheist fundies like Lee are a figment of their own
imagination. The ego he worships is an illusion not shared by
others. That's why he's such a nasty libeller.

And I'm not attacking him because he's an atheist but because
he's a fundy libeller. HONEST atheists exist, but he's not
one of them.

The question is whether or not an honest Christian exists and,
if so, how long would they remain Christian against the
overwhelming weight of evidence that their gods don't exists
and never existed? How long would they be willing to continue
to lie to themselves and others?

Theists are not automatically liars.

Christians lie all the time.

So do atheists.

We're telling you the truth, Dave. We don't expect you to like it: we
know that it goes against decades of conditioning.

He can't grasp anybody reaching conclusions that go against his belief
- no matter how often you explain how it is reached.

So he looks for dishonest "reasons".

Which amount to lying about them instead of addressing what is said.

And instead of falsifying the conclusion.

But fundies, both of the atheist
and the theist kind seem to love lying.

See? You just did it again.

That's not a lie. That's simply an observation of FACT.

That's it. I give up with you. You're just another lying theist.
***** off and go to your imaginary Hell.

On his planet, anybody who doesn't give him the free ride he expects
because he is a priest, is a fundamentalist.

On Sep 15, 7:24 am, Dave Oldridge <doldr...@leavethisoutshaw.ca>
wrote:

Martin Phipps <martinphip...@yahoo.com> wrote
innews:1189761488.131211.24

8710@22g2000hsm.googlegroups.com:

On Sep 14, 5:12 pm, Dave Oldridge <doldr...@leavethisoutshaw.ca>
wrote:

Martin Phipps <phippsmar...@hotmail.com> wrote
innews:1189687090.482689.7920@r34g2000hsd.googlegroups.com:

On Sep 13, 10:04 am, Jd <ZionsF...@att.net> wrote:

But you don't believe the Bible so quit pretending.

Who's pretending? The Bible is nothing but lies from beginning
to end. Do you think you earn our respect when you spread those
lies?!

That's going a bit far, Martin. The lies are not in the Bible so
much as in the addlepated brains of those claiming to actually be
able to interpret it.

So the lies in the Bible are only lies when people pretend they are
true? Fair enough.

You haven't shown that any Bible writer intended deception.

http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/lying.htm

"For if the truth of God hath more abounded by my lie unto his glory,
why yet am I also adjudged a sinner?" (St. Paul, Romans 3.7)

"How it may be Lawful and Fitting to use Falsehood as a Medicine, and
for the Benefit of those who Want to be Deceived." (Bishop Eusebius,
the official propagandist for Constantine, 12th Book of Evangelical
Preparation)

"We shall introduce into this history in general only those events
which may be useful first to ourselves and afterwards to
posterity." (Eusebius, Ecclesiastical History, Vol. 8, chapter 2).


"Do you see the advantage of deceit? ...

For great is the value of deceit, provided it be not introduced with a
mischievous intention. In fact action of this kind ought not to be
called deceit, but rather a kind of good management, cleverness and
skill, capable of finding out ways where resources fail, and making up
for the defects of the mind ...

And often it is necessary to deceive, and to do the greatest benefits
by means of this device, whereas he who has gone by a straight course
has done great mischief to the person whom he has not deceived."

(John Chrysostom, 5th century theologian and erstwhile bishop of
Constantinople, Treatise On The Priesthood, Book 1)


'Clearly the Christians have used ... myths ... in fabricating the
story of Jesus' birth ... It is clear to me that the writings of the
Christians are a lie and that your fables are not well-enough
constructed to conceal this monstrous fiction.'
- Celsus (On The True Doctrine, c178 AD)

'Only lies have our fathers handed down to us, emptiness in which
there is nothing of any avail!' - Jeremiah 16.19

"Many things have been inserted by our ancestors in the speeches of
our Lord which, though put forth under his name, agree not with his
faith; especially since - as already it has been often proved - these
things were written not by Christ, nor [by] his apostles, but a long
while after their assumption, by I know not what sort of half Jews,
not even agreeing with themselves, who made up their tale out of
reports and opinions merely, and yet, fathering the whole upon the
names of the apostles of the Lord or on those who were supposed to
follow the apostles, they maliciously pretended that they had written
their lies and conceits according to them." - Faustus, the Manichean
bishop

'The Church forgery mill did not limit itself to mere writings but
for
centuries cranked out thousands of phony "relics" of its "Lord,"
"Apostles" and "Saints" ... There were at least 26 'authentic' burial
shrouds scattered throughout the abbeys of Europe, of which the Shroud
of Turin is just one ... At one point, a number of churches claimed
the one foreskin of Jesus, and there were enough splinters of the
"True Cross" that Calvin said the amount of wood would make "a full
load for a good ship." ' (Acharya S, The Christ Conspiracy)

"We should always be disposed to believe that which appears to us to
be white is really black, if the hierarchy of the church so decides."
- Ignatius Loyola (1491-1556), the tireless zealot for papal authority
- he was the founder of the Society of Jesus (the Jesuits)

"What harm would it do, if a man told a good strong lie for the sake
of the good and for the Christian church ... a lie out of necessity, a
useful lie, a helpful lie, such lies would not be against God, he
would accept them."
- Martin Luther (Cited by his secretary, in a letter in Max Lenz, ed.,
Briefwechsel Landgraf Phillips des Grossmüthigen von Hessen mit Bucer,
vol. I.)

"And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they
should believe a lie." - 2 Thessalonians 2.11

'The forgery of pious documents of every imaginable character was
among the most constant and zealous activities of the holy
propagandists of the Christian Faith, from the beginning to the
critical era when forgeries were no longer possible or profitable.' -
Joseph Wheless (1930)

"Unsigned works are a peculiar Christian phenomenon, in works with a
dogmatic, apologetic, and propagandistic aim - in other words, works
already suspect, and thus made even more so by an author's anonymity."
- Richard Carrier

"In reality, the Neronian persecution never occurred. It is a fiction
of the Church, invented for its greater glory." (Arthur Drews, The
Legend of St Peter, p63)

"It is usual for the sacred historian to conform himself to the
generally accepted opinion of the masses in his time.' - St Jerome
(P.L., XXVI, 98; XXIV, 855).

'There is nothing so easy as by sheer volubility to deceive a common
crowd or an uneducated congregation.' - St. Jerome (Epistle. lii, 8;
p. 93.)

"There are actually some 200 gospels, epistles and other books
concerning the life of Jesus Christ. Writing such material was a
popular literary form, particularly in the 2nd century. The pious
fantasies competed with Greek romantic fiction. Political
considerations in the late 2nd century led to the selection of just
four approved gospels and the rejection of others. After three
centuries of wrangling 23 other books were accepted by the Church as
divinely inspired. The rest were declared 'pious frauds'. In truth,
the whole lot belongs to a genre of literary FICTION." -
http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/