On Sun, 27 Jan 2008 12:48:27 -0800, Glenn
<gamcclary@spiritone.com> said the following:
Glenn, I know you see my messages, since you took
the time to insult me in response to one of them and
so I state that I am still waiting for a response to this
message, which did not contain any attacks on you...
Mike Painter wrote:
When you Quote Jesus, the Quote is correct.
The delusion and false doctrine is what you
INTERPRET Jesus' words to mean.
You were the one who said that you don't interpret
the Bible. Yet, as I pointed out to you before, the
Bible does not say, "nuclear war", for example.
So no offense, but it seems to me that you shouldn't
be talking about delusion to someone else, when you
yourself add in what you claim is correct (nuclear war,
for example, since again, the Bible does not say,
"nuclear war", yet you claim that's "in the Bible").
My point is, you're creating a double standard. (:
You quote a bunch of Scripture,
and falsely conclude...
To quote you...
Begin quote:
"The end will come within
the lifetime of Jesus's listeners."
End quote.
That's because it's what Jesus said (generation).
"The End" did not come in the lifetime of those who
listened to Him, that is not what He said, or meant,
You mean "the end" as YOU PERSONALLY describe it
to be, which you cannot prove to be the case.
And yes, it is both what He said and what He meant.
Now we have had this discussion before and you were
forced to admit that yes, Jesus did teach a return within
the same generation. I would be happy to show you
the posts.
I am not trying to slam you here, Glenn. I am only
stating the facts.
And when it was firmly proved to you that the Apostles
preached the end within that same generation, which
you again were forced to acknowledge, your decision
was to say that the writers of the New Testament
were wrong and that you are right.
And again, I am not trying to slam you here, Glenn.
I am only stating the facts as verified by your own
words, sir.
Now obviously you have your own rules, but for me,
I cannot approach Scripture by saying that it is without
erroneous teaching by our Lord and the Apostles and
then claim that they were wrong about the second most
important subject in the entire New Testament! Aside
from initial salvation, they spent more time on this
subject, than any other!
And so, reasonable and honest people (I'm not saying
you lied, since I think that you believe what you write)
can only conclude that it is not honest to say, as every
Futurist does when confronted with this fact, that;
"It isn't that important anyway", especially when they
spend half their usenet time posting about it and the
Christian book stores make more room for books
about this subject, than they do Bibles half the time!
My point is, that it would be disingenuous for ANYONE
to claim that the subject was and is not important!
and the degree and depth of the delusion required
to believe your conclusion is incredible, utterly
astounding.
Insults do not prove your doctrine, sir! And insults seem
to be all you are left with and so, how is it that you do
not see that this is simply an attempt to avoid dealing
properly with someone's comments?!
And the fact is, that you tell everyone else that they are
deluded and yet, you are not even willing to consider
that maybe the delusion is yours! You set yourself up
as being the one without error, EVEN OVER the NT itself
(God's word to mankind)! Do you *really* expect that
we will trust Glenn *over* God and His Son and His
Apostles, who wrote the New Testament (except for
Luke and Acts, both of which were written by Luke,
who got it from eyewitness testimony (Luke) and from
his own eyewitness (Acts))?!
After all, you should be considering that maybe "the end"
is not about what you claim it is, since Jesus Himself said
it wasn't and said it was about Jerusalem and Judea and
nothing more (except judgment), in Luke 21:20-22!
And so, when people like you demand that I prove where
this and that happened, if Jesus came back in 70 AD, that
also is disingenuous Glenn (again, I'm not trying to attack
you, but rather, I am just seeking to make my argument
about what you said), since what it means, is that you want
me to prove that my doctrine is correct, by first accepting
yours as correct and then proving that everything that
YOU believe is supposed to happen, happened in 70 AD!
And when I respond by saying very clearly that this is what
you are doing and that I'm not bound to prove something
I don't believe was supposed to happen anyway, the insults
started flying from you and others and then you people ran
away! This is especially evident when you and they tried to
ridicule me for saying that Jesus would not be PHYSICALLY
seen riding a cloud, saying that I'm nuts for believing in
an "invisible return" and yet, they believe in a Rapture,
which claims that Jesus will return invisibly! :)
I know that you personally don't believe in "the Rapture",
which is why I just said "they" for that one and I was only
using it as an example of what I'm talking about.
And furthermore, they claim that when millions disappear,
no one will know what happened and claim this, even
though there are movies about it, books about it and
even bumper stickers saying things like, "If this car is
suddenly unmanned, I've been raptured!". But hey,
no one will know what happened, right? :)
Of course, when I pointed out this self-contradiction,
no one had anything to say, except by starting new
threads with subject lines that were a personal attack
on me! Of course! :)
The point is, if we do not place what you do on "the end",
then we will not need to worry about showing how the
world supposedly exploded in 70 AD! :)
And so my point is, it is disingenuous to ask me to prove
my doctrine, by you first erasing it and placing yours there
instead, leaving only the date of 70 AD and then demand
that I prove it happened then, when what you're really
asking me for, is to prove that YOUR doctrine happened
in 70 AD! Hello?!? :)
Now does that sound like an honest request of me
by others to you??? We both know better! :)
And so, what I am asking you right now, Glenn,
is are you ready to have a discussion about this.
But I am not looking for a heated argument!
And if still, all you have is insults toward me,
then let me know and I'll pop you back into my
kill file and leave you there. I have not attacked you
in this message, since the things I said are true and
I have repeatedly verified them for you, when you
asked me to and did so even though when I did
each time, you kept snipping it and then called me
a liar, saying I didn't verify it!
You see, I took you out of my kill file, based on what
Tom said about you being quieted down and calmer.
And I am hoping that is indeed true, as I honestly do
wish to have a civil and tame discussion with you.
So if this sounds good to you, please let me know
and we can start wherever you wish, after this response
of mine is dealt with by you. And this message entails
responding to your claims that:
1) "The End" means "the end of the planet".
2) Those who disagree with you are "deluded".
3) When Jesus' return was supposed to be.
Now as to #3, I have proved to you that the NT says
that it would be within the same generation that Jesus
spoke to. I did prove to you that He did teach that
and that His Apostles did indeed teach that. And no,
I'm sorry, but saying that you believe the word of God
*_AND_* saying that they were wrong, is not an
acceptable argument! You either believe the Bible,
or you do not. So you must make a choice, but I will
say that should we have a discussion, as far as I am
concerned, "the Bible trumps Glenn" and does so,
*_EVERY_* time! :)
So the ball's in your court! It's your turn! <lol!> :)
--
Lord, help me get up when I fall. I can fall by myself.
.
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