Religions > Bible > Poster on Internet Threatening to Kill Christians Shoots 9 and Kills4 Christians and Himself
| Topic: |
Religions > Bible |
| User: |
"Linda Lee" |
| Date: |
12 Dec 2007 09:41:02 PM |
| Object: |
Poster on Internet Threatening to Kill Christians Shoots 9 and Kills4 Christians and Himself |
From: http://www.nbc11.com/news/14817818/detail.html
"Police: Same Gunman Attacked Both Churches
Police Say "Forensics Match" Links Gunman To Two Shootings
DENVER -- Police said Monday that the gunman who killed four people at
a megachurch in Colorado Springs and a missionary training school in
Arvada was the same person.
Police said Matthew Murray was "responsible for the crime" and that
the handgun found at the church in Colorado Springs was forensically
linked to the handgun used in the shooting in Arvada.
"Testing has confirmed the handgun found at the church in Colorado
Springs is forensically linked to shell casings found at the crime
scene in Arvada," said Chief Don Wick of the Arvada Police Department.
Murray, 24, was home-schooled by his family and raised in what a
friend said was a deeply religious Christian household. Murray's
father is a neurologist and a prominent multiple-sclerosis researcher.
Five people -- including Murray -- were killed, and five others
wounded Sunday in the two eruptions of violence 12 hours and 65 miles
apart.
Authorities searched Murray's home in unincorporated Arapahoe County
early Monday.
Five people, including a gunman, died in the attacks Sunday at a
megachurch in Colorado Springs and at the Youth With A Mission
missionary center in Arvada. Five others were wounded in the church
shootings.
Authorities could be seen coming and going from Murray's home, and at
one point searching the bushes in the front and in the back yard. The
federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms and the Arapahoe
County bomb squad were also involved in the search at the home on East
Berry Place and Havana Street.
After the lengthy search -- during which many boxes of material were
removed -- authorities took down crime scene tape and left the home
without disclosing what they found.
Neighbors said the family has lived at that home for 10-plus years and
has two sons, the younger son attends a religious school.
"It's just crazy just hearing about it. I was thinking about how I
knew them so long ago. ... They were a really religious family," said
neighbor Cody Askeland.
Murray's father, Dr. Ronald Murray, is a well-known neurologist with a
practice in Lone Tree. His office was closed Monday and a message on
his phone line said, "Dr. Murray's office is closed and he will not be
available until further notice."
A Cherry Creek School District spokeswoman said that Murray was home-
schooled and she doesn't have any record of him attending a high
school in the area or receiving a diploma.
New Life Church and Youth With A Mission are connected in several
ways. There is a Youth With A Mission office on the New Life Church
campus, and many members of New Life have completed the YWAM's school
and discipleship programs. They have also worked together in local
evangelical outreach programs.
Witnesses Describe Shootings
The violence began about 12:30 a.m. Sunday, when a man pulled a
handgun and opened fire at the Youth With A Mission center after he
had been denied a request to spend the night there. Witnesses told
police that the gunman was a white man in his early 20s, wearing a
dark jacket and skull cap and carrying a handgun.
More than 12 hours later, at New Life Church in Colorado Springs, a
gunman with a high-powered rifle entered the church's main foyer and
opened fire, Colorado Springs Police Chief Richard Myers said. Three
people, including the gunman, were killed and three others were
wounded.
Jessie Gingrich had left New Life and was in the parking lot getting
into her car when she saw the gunman get a rifle from his trunk and
open fire on a van full of people.
"A man got out of his car and pulled out a huge rifle and my first
thought was, 'That can't be a real gun,' and he started shooting,"
said Gingrich. "I was absolutely positive that I was going to be
next."
She said she then cowered in her car, fumbling with the ignition key.
"I was just expecting for the next gunshot to be coming through my
car. Miraculously -- by the grace of God -- it did not," she told
ABC's "Good Morning America." "I believe the only reason I got away
was because he had to stop and reload his gun."
She said she doesn't believe the gunman recognized his targets.
"I don't know if it was someone he recognized but an entire family had
just gotten in their van and he had a very clear view that they had
done that. I just think he was going for as many people as he could,"
she said.
Ashley Gibbs was getting into a car with David Harris when they heard
the gunshots -- a sound like someone kicking ice from the side of a
car, she said. Harris said he saw the gunman, and it looked like he
knew how to handle a weapon.
"I was in the military for about three years, and the way he was
holding the rifle looked just like the way we were taught to when I
was in the military," he told NBC's "Today" show.
They stayed in the vehicle and prayed for the gunman.
"It was obvious that he was in some sort of pain and going through a
lot," Gibbs said. "I just prayed God would bring him peace."
Colorado Springs Victims Identified
The victims killed in the Colorado Springs shooting were identified
Monday as sisters Stephanie Works, 18, and Rachael Works, 16. Their
father, David Works, 51, suffered two gunshot wounds -- one to the
abdomen and one to the groin -- and was listed in fair condition on
Monday. They were shot in the parking lot as they were getting into
their van.
"Our concern is for our family that lost two teenage daughters. Our
hearts are grieving this morning for them," said New Life's Senior
Pastor Brady Boyd. "You can imagine, as parents, losing two children
while coming to church, just showing up for a worship service, not
bothering anyone."
The teenage girls were home-schooled, according to the Denver Post.
One of the teens had just returned from a mission overseas that was
sanctioned by the church.
The Works family had been with New Life Church for a 1 1/2 years.
"I'm asking Colorado Springs and the country to please pray for that
family this morning because they're going through a very difficult
time," said Boyd.
Judy Purcell, 40, was shot in the right shoulder and was treated and
released. Larry Bourbannais, 59, was shot in the forearm and treated
and released.
Gunman's Uncle: 'We Cannot Understand Why This Happened'
Matthew Murray's uncle Phil Abeyta addressed the news media Monday
night saying "our family cannot express the magnitude of our grief for
the victims and families of this tradegey."
Abeyta said he "cannot understand why this happened" and asked for
"forgiveness from the victims and families.
Arvada Victims Identified
The two dead victims at the missionary center were identified as
Tiffany Johnson, 26, and Philip Crouse, 24.
Johnson, who grew up in Chisholm, Minn., loved working with children
and wanted to see the world, said family friend Carla Macynski.
"Tiffany was a well-liked, easygoing 26-year-old. She was friendly,
adventurous and a definite leader. She wanted to see the world,"
Macynski said as she choked back tears. Johnson had traveled to Egypt,
Libya and South Africa with the missionary group.
Crouse, of Alaska, had helped build a foster home at a Crow
reservation in Montana, said Ronny Morris, who works with a Denver
chapter of the mission.
Staffer Dan Griebenow, 24, of South Dakota, was shot in the neck,
according to Youth With A Mission. Staffer Charlie Blanch, 22,
suffered gunshot wounds to his legs, according to ministry officials.
His hometown wasn't immediately known.
Griebenow has been upgraded from critical to serious condition.
The live-in Christian missionary center is on the grounds of the Faith
Bible Chapel. Cheril Morrison, wife of chapel pastor George Morrison,
said Crouse had just hung up Christmas lights at her home and that
Johnson was "an amazingly beautiful person."
Mimi Martin, who lives near the center, said she received a warning
call at about 9 a.m. telling neighbors to keep their doors and windows
locked.
"Why would anybody want to hurt those kids?" Martin said.
Darv Smith, director of a Youth With A Mission center in Boulder, said
people ranging from their late teens to their 70s undergo a 12-week
course that prepares them to be missionaries. He said the center
trains about 300 people a year.
Paul Filidis, a Colorado Springs-based spokesman with Youth With A
Mission, said staffers are usually former missionaries themselves and
that the "mercy ministries" performed by trainees include orphanage
work.
Youth With A Mission was started in 1960 and now has 1,100 locations
with 16,000 full-time staff, Smith said. The Arvada center was founded
in 1984.
"Violent crimes of any sort are tragic enough, but when innocent
people are killed in a religious facility or a place of worship, we
must voice a collective sense of outrage and demonstrate a renewed
commitment to keeping our communities safe," said Gov. Bill Ritter.
The Colorado shootings came only days after a 19-year-old gunman
opened fire at a popular mall in Omaha, Neb., killing eight people and
himself.
"The violence over the weekend against young missionaries in Arvada
and against worshippers at New Life Church in Colorado Springs would
be heart-rending in any season, but it is especially bitter during
this time of preparation for Christmas, the birthday of the Prince of
Peace," said the Rev. Charles Chaput, Archbishop of Denver. "Along
with the whole Catholic community in Colorado, I pray that God will
heal the suffering inflicted by these terrible events, and sustain the
hope and faith of the people at New Life Church, Youth With A Mission
and Faith Bible Chapel. For those struggling personally with this
sorrow, may God penetrate and redeem even this tragedy with the peace
of Christmas and Christ's promise of eternal life." "
From: http://www.nbc11.com/news/14808355/detail.html
"COLORADO SPRINGS, Colo. -- Authorities said a church member was shot
to death and four others were injured after a gunman opened fire
outside the New Life Church in Colorado Springs as Sunday services
were wrapping up.
The gunman was shot by a church security officer and was found dead
when police arrived at the scene, said Colorado Springs Police Chief
Richard Myers.
Police did not release the name of the security guard but said he
"probably saved many lives today."
The gunman shot five other people in the parking lot of the church, at
about 1:10 p.m., Myers said. One of them was found dead when police
arrived, three minutes after the shooting.
Four others were rushed to area hospitals and were said to have life-
threatening injuries. Their conditions varied from fair to critical.
The church went into lockdown and every church in Colorado Springs
went into high alert when shots rang out.
Witnesses said the shooter was dressed in black and was carrying a
high-powered rifle.
"The services had ended at 12:30 and so there would have still been
hundreds of people on campus picking up their children from the
children's care area," said New Life Church spokesman Rob Brendle.
About 7,000 people were on the church grounds around the time of the
shooting, said New Life Senior Pastor Brady Boyd.
"You become kind of callous to this kind of thing because you hear it
in the news all the time," a member of the church told 7NEWS in
Denver. "Then when it hits home, people you know, it just really
shakes you."
"As a pastor, my heart is broken today for people who lost their
lives ... Our prayers right now are for those who were injured, and
for the families who lost their loved ones," Boyd said. "It's
unfortunate that we live in a society where this happens, but it
does."
The security team at New Life had been increased after word of a
deadly shooting near a church in Arvada earlier that day, Boyd said.
"We had a very detailed plan in place that we put into effect
immediately" to evacuate people, he said.
Investigators also reported they found a pipe bomb in the parking lot
of the church and several suspicious devices inside the church that
the bomb squad is checking out. The Colorado Springs Fire Department,
the El Paso County Sheriff's Office, the FBI, the Bureau of Alcohol,
Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, and a K-9 unit from the Air Force
Academy have been called out to the scene to assist police
investigators.
Police said they did not believe the shooting at New Life is connected
with a deadly shooting earlier Sunday at a missionary training center
in Arvada.
"We are not in a place to confirm any information about any possible
similarities to these incidents," said Arvada Police Chief Don Wick at
a news conference Sunday afternoon.
Two people died in that incident.
New Life is one of the most influential and one of the best known
Evangelical churches in the country. New Life is the 10,000-member
megachurch that was thrown into the national spotlight last year when
church founder and senior pastor Ted Haggard admitted to "sexual
immorality" following allegations he paid a male prostitute for sex
and meth.
"Our church has gone through difficult times in the past. Our church
will survive and do well," said Boyd.
However, there is a connection between the two churches in Sunday's
shootings. New Life and Youth With A Mission worked together on a
controversial and dangerous missionary program that focuses on
converting people in Muslim countries.
Gov. Bill Ritter expressed his condolences for all victims' families.
"Violent crimes of any sort are tragic enough but when innocent people
are killed in a religious facility or a place of worship, we must
voice a collective sense of outrage and demonstrate a renewed
commitment to keeping our community safe," Ritter said in a news
statement.
Boyd said the church will have a team of people available Monday to
help with crisis counseling. Sunday service was canceled and the
church will be closed on Monday, according to its Web site.
Boyd thanked police for their quick actions.
"I watched the events unfold from my second floor office. And within
just a moment of hearing gunshots, the police were on the scene, the
building was secured, our people were safe. As a pastor and leader of
the church, I'm just so grateful for the courageous men and women who
serve in our law enforcement agencies and the way they responded,"
Boyd said."
FROM: http://www.nbc11.com/news/14829814/detail.html
"DENVER -- Two more services are planned Wednesday to remember the
victims of Sunday's violence at a Colorado missionary training center
and a megachurch.
Members of Youth With A Mission and the New Life Church will gather to
worship, pray and mourn the four people killed by a gunman who fatally
shot himself after being shot by a security guard.
A Web site administrator said federal authorities were alerted to anti-
Christian postings apparently written by the shooter, Matthew Murray,
after the attack at the missionary center and before the gunfire at
the church. It's believed Murray left 11 postings on the day of the
shootings warning that he wanted to kill Christians.
Joe Istre, the president of the Association of Former Pentecostals,
which operates the Web site, says his initial reaction to the
shootings was "disbelief, but then almost horror."
A relative said Murray's family spent a quiet Tuesday "in reflection
and prayer" for the victims.
That's according to Murray's uncle, the Rev. Phil Abeyta. He gathered
with friends and church members at a prayer service Tuesday night.
In between two fatal shootings at a missionary training center and a
megachurch, the 24-year-old Murray apparently posted furious messages
on the Internet, threatening to kill Christians he said "are to blame
for most of the problems of the world."
It's unclear if any of the warnings reached police before the attack
at the New Life Church in Colorado Springs. Two people died there,
some 12 hours after two were killed at the training center in Arvada.
An autopsy has determined Murray killed himself with a bullet to the
head after he was brought down by gunfire from a volunteer security
guard at the church."
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Poster on Internet Threatening to Kill Christians Shoots 9 andKills 4 Christians and Himself |
12 Dec 2007 09:50:43 PM |
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"I was just expecting for the next gunshot to be coming through my
car. Miraculously -- by the grace of God -- it did not.."
So where was that grace for the other people that were shot? Ignorant
comment...
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| User: "Linda Lee" |
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| Title: Re: Poster on Internet Threatening to Kill Christians Shoots 9 andKills 4 Christians and Himself |
12 Dec 2007 10:09:09 PM |
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On Dec 12, 10:50 pm, "natezenmas...@gmail.com"
<natezenmas...@gmail.com> wrote:
So where was that grace for the other people that were shot? Ignorant comment...
Yes, it was. In case you haven't noticed, the flesh of all living
creatures has to die.
Ecc. 7:1 "A good name is better than precious ointment; and the day
of death than the day of one's birth."
Isa. 57:1 "The righteous perisheth, and no man layeth it to heart:
and merciful men are taken away, none considering that the righteous
is taken away from the evil to come."
Prov. 14:16 "A wise man feareth, and departeth from evil: but the
fool rageth, and is confident."
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| User: "H.E. Eickleberry, Jr." |
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| Title: Re: Poster on Internet Threatening to Kill Christians Shoots 9 and Kills 4 Christians and Himself |
12 Dec 2007 11:57:12 PM |
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"Linda Lee" <lindagirl444@juno.com> wrote in message
news:6f0f6fb6-fafc-4997-94e9-bb3e85a72df5@b1g2000pra.googlegroups.com...
From: http://www.nbc11.com/news/14817818/detail.html
"Police: Same Gunman Attacked Both Churches
Great.
Tack another one onto the list.
What do all these have in common?
The Millerites.
Jack Ruby.
Jim Jones.
David Koresh.
The Oklahoma City bombing.
Ruby Ridge.
The Freeman standoff.
And now Matthew Murray.
Answer: Post-Reformation Dispensationalist theology which promises that
which God never said He would deliver.
Ike
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| User: "Mark T moi@home000whatever73" |
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| Title: Re: Poster on Internet Threatening to Kill Christians Shoots 9 and Kills 4 Christians and Himself |
12 Dec 2007 11:59:12 PM |
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"H.E. Eickleberry, Jr." <xeickleberrybooks@verizon.net> wrote:
"Police: Same Gunman Attacked Both Churches
.....
What do all these have in common?
Fundamentalist ratbag horseshit like Hee Haw Hickleberry???
--
"Ah, brother," said the confessor, "don't you know that whoever calls his
brother Raca is liable to hell fire? Now you have the misfortune to lead
anyone who reads you into immediate temptation to call you Raca. ... "
(Voltaire -The Jesuit Berthia)
--
My Blog - MARK T - my thoughts on Christianity & links
http://www.blognow.com.au/strooth/
FUNDY FUNHOUSE -
http://fundamentalistfunhouse.blogspot.com/
- a resource on the current Fundamentalist Dark Age and Christian
fundamentalism.
My Soundclick Page - download my original songs in mp3 format
http://www.soundclick.com/marktindall
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| User: "H.E. Eickleberry, Jr." |
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| Title: Re: Poster on Internet Threatening to Kill Christians Shoots 9 and Kills 4 Christians and Himself |
13 Dec 2007 02:03:31 AM |
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"Mark T" <moi@home000whatever73> wrote in message
news:4760ca30$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au...
"H.E. Eickleberry, Jr." <xeickleberrybooks@verizon.net> wrote:
"Police: Same Gunman Attacked Both Churches
....
What do all these have in common?
Fundamentalist ratbag horseshit like Hee Haw Hickleberry???
LOL
Don't you just love the hypocrisy?
The first one to be screaming about ad hominem attacks is Mark, but as soon
as someone starts to prove him wrong, the first thing he reverts to is
unsubstantiated name calling.
Ike
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| User: "Mark T moi@home000whatever73" |
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| Title: Re: Poster on Internet Threatening to Kill Christians Shoots 9 and Kills 4 Christians and Himself |
13 Dec 2007 02:23:10 AM |
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"H.E. Eickleberry, Jr." <xeickleberrybooks@verizon.net> wrote:
"Police: Same Gunman Attacked Both Churches
....
What do all these have in common?
Fundamentalist ratbag horseshit like Hee Haw Hickleberry???
....
Don't you just love the hypocrisy?
I hate your hypocrisy. Its people like you that make me sick of church.
Silly little person!
--
"Ah, brother," said the confessor, "don't you know that whoever calls his
brother Raca is liable to hell fire? Now you have the misfortune to lead
anyone who reads you into immediate temptation to call you Raca. ... "
(Voltaire -The Jesuit Berthia)
--
My Blog - MARK T - my thoughts on Christianity & links
http://www.blognow.com.au/strooth/
FUNDY FUNHOUSE -
http://fundamentalistfunhouse.blogspot.com/
- a resource on the current Fundamentalist Dark Age and Christian
fundamentalism.
My Soundclick Page - download my original songs in mp3 format
http://www.soundclick.com/marktindall
.
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| User: "H.E. Eickleberry, Jr." |
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| Title: Re: Poster on Internet Threatening to Kill Christians Shoots 9 and Kills 4 Christians and Himself |
13 Dec 2007 02:35:24 AM |
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"Mark T" <moi@home000whatever73> wrote in message
news:4760ebee$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au...
"H.E. Eickleberry, Jr." <xeickleberrybooks@verizon.net> wrote:
"Police: Same Gunman Attacked Both Churches
....
What do all these have in common?
Fundamentalist ratbag horseshit like Hee Haw Hickleberry???
...
Don't you just love the hypocrisy?
I hate your hypocrisy. Its people like you that make me sick of church.
What hypocrisy?
Where did I once deviate from my message or means?
And it's YOU who makes yourself "sick of the church," not me. I didn't take
the poison pill--YOU did.
Ike
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| User: "Mark T moi@home000whatever73" |
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| Title: Re: Poster on Internet Threatening to Kill Christians Shoots 9 and Kills 4 Christians and Himself |
13 Dec 2007 02:39:28 AM |
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"H.E. Eickleberry, Jr." <xeickleberrybooks@verizon.net> wrote:
"Police: Same Gunman Attacked Both Churches
....
What do all these have in common?
Fundamentalist ratbag horseshit like Hee Haw Hickleberry???
...
Don't you just love the hypocrisy?
I hate your hypocrisy. Its people like you that make me sick of church.
What hypocrisy?
YOUR hypocrisy.
--
DISTINGUISHING FEATURES OF A CHRISTUS OBNOXIUM
.... quoting from James Barr's book "Fundamentalism" on the three
distinguishing features of the Fundamentalist:
'Firstly, a fundamentalist has a very strong emphasis on the inerrancy of
the Bible, and believes in the absence from it of any sort of error.
Two, a strong hostility to modern theology and to the method, results and
implications of modern critical study of the Bible.
And three, an assurance that those who do not share their religious
viewpoint are not really true Christians at all.'
Peter Cameron "Heretic" (Doubleday; Sydney: 1994) p. 178
--
My Blog - MARK T - my thoughts on Christianity & links
http://www.blognow.com.au/strooth/
FUNDY FUNHOUSE -
http://fundamentalistfunhouse.blogspot.com/
- a resource on the current Fundamentalist Dark Age and Christian
fundamentalism.
My Soundclick Page - download my original songs in mp3 format
http://www.soundclick.com/marktindall
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Poster on Internet Threatening to Kill Christians Shoots 9 andKills 4 Christians and Himself |
13 Dec 2007 03:24:59 AM |
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On Dec 12, 9:59 pm, "Mark T" <moi@home000whatever73> wrote:
"H.E. Eickleberry, Jr." <xeickleberrybo...@verizon.net> wrote:
"Police: Same Gunman Attacked Both Churches
....
What do all these have in common?
Fundamentalist ratbag horseshit like Hee Haw Hickleberry???
Gee, Mark, I've got to agree with you on this one.
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| User: "Mark T moi@home000whatever73" |
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| Title: Re: Poster on Internet Threatening to Kill Christians Shoots 9 and Kills 4 Christians and Himself |
13 Dec 2007 03:47:31 AM |
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<pjmutnick@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
"H.E. Eickleberry, Jr." <xeickleberrybo...@verizon.net> wrote:
"Police: Same Gunman Attacked Both Churches
....
What do all these have in common?
Fundamentalist ratbag horseshit like Hee Haw Hickleberry???
Gee, Mark, I've got to agree with you on this one.
We agree on something.
It's a miracle!
I am definitely not anti-Islam.
I believe Islam worships the same God as Abraham and therefore Jews,
Christians and Moslems worship the same One God.
COEXIST.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Love and Peace or Else" - U2
Lay down
Lay down
Lay your sweet lovely on the ground
Lay your love on the track
We're gonna break the monster's back
Yes we are...
Lay down your treasure
Lay it down now brother
You don't have time
For a jealous lover
As you enter this life
I pray you depart
With a wrinkled face
And a brand new heart
I don't know if I can take it
I'm not easy on my knees
Here's my heart you can break it
I need some release, release, release
We need
Love and peace
Love and peace
Lay down
Lay down your guns
All your daughters of Zion
All your Abraham sons
I don't know if I can make it
I'm not easy on my knees
Here's my heart and you can break it
I need some release, release, release
We need
Love and peace
Love and peace
Baby don't fight
We can talk this thing through
It's not a big problem
It's just me and you
You can call or I'll phone
The TV is still on
But the sound is turned down
And the troops on the ground
Are about to dig in
And I wonder where is the love?
Where is the love?
Where is the love?
Where is the love?
Love and peace
Lyrics: Bono & The Edge
Produced by: Brian Eno & Daniel Lanois
Additional production by: Chris Thomas, Jacknife Lee, Flood
Mixed by: Flood
Synthesizers: Brian Eno
Piano and backing vocals: The Edge
Shaker: Daniel Lanois
--
My Blog - MARK T - my thoughts on Christianity & links
http://www.blognow.com.au/strooth/
FUNDY FUNHOUSE -
http://fundamentalistfunhouse.blogspot.com/
- a resource on the current Fundamentalist Dark Age and Christian
fundamentalism.
My Soundclick Page - download my original songs in mp3 format
http://www.soundclick.com/marktindall
.
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| User: "H.E. Eickleberry, Jr." |
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| Title: Re: Poster on Internet Threatening to Kill Christians Shoots 9 and Kills 4 Christians and Himself |
13 Dec 2007 09:43:39 AM |
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"Mark T" <moi@home000whatever73> wrote in message
news:4760ffb3$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au...
<pjmutnick@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
"H.E. Eickleberry, Jr." <xeickleberrybo...@verizon.net> wrote:
"Police: Same Gunman Attacked Both Churches
....
What do all these have in common?
Fundamentalist ratbag horseshit like Hee Haw Hickleberry???
Gee, Mark, I've got to agree with you on this one.
We agree on something.
It's a miracle!
I am definitely not anti-Islam.
I believe Islam worships the same God as Abraham and therefore Jews,
Christians and Moslems worship the same One God.
COEXIST.
Jer 6:14 They have healed also the hurt of the daughter of my people
slightly, saying, Peace, peace; when there is no peace.
Dan 8:25c "...and by peace he shall destroy many..."
Mark, you are a true antichristian Babylonian though-and-through.
Ike
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| User: "Linda Lee" |
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| Title: Re: Poster on Internet Threatening to Kill Christians Shoots 9 andKills 4 Christians and Himself |
13 Dec 2007 03:10:57 AM |
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On Dec 13, 12:57 am, "H.E. Eickleberry, Jr."
<xeickleberrybo...@verizon.net> wrote:
"Linda Lee" <lindagirl...@juno.com> wrote in message
news:6f0f6fb6-fafc-4997-94e9-bb3e85a72df5@b1g2000pra.googlegroups.com...
From:http://www.nbc11.com/news/14817818/detail.html
"Police: Same Gunman Attacked Both Churches
Great.
Tack another one onto the list.
What do all these have in common?
The Millerites.
Jack Ruby.
Jim Jones.
David Koresh.
The Oklahoma City bombing.
Ruby Ridge.
The Freeman standoff.
And now Matthew Murray.
Answer: Post-Reformation Dispensationalist theology which promises that
which God never said He would deliver.
Ike
I don't see what this answer, or your argument with Mart T over this,
have to do with that man shooting 9 people and himself. He wasn't a
member of a cult like the Jim Jones cult and the government didn't
come after him like in the Ruby Ridge incident.
Although the shooter's father was a minister.
And what is "Post-Reformation Dispensationalist theology"; what does
it promise that isn't scriptural?
.
|
|
|
| User: "H.E. Eickleberry, Jr." |
|
| Title: Re: Poster on Internet Threatening to Kill Christians Shoots 9 and Kills 4 Christians and Himself |
13 Dec 2007 09:40:43 AM |
|
|
"Linda Lee" <lindagirl444@juno.com> wrote in message
news:51234c0d-83e7-4fa5-9ebc-5b3199111d95@t1g2000pra.googlegroups.com...
On Dec 13, 12:57 am, "H.E. Eickleberry, Jr."
<xeickleberrybo...@verizon.net> wrote:
"Linda Lee" <lindagirl...@juno.com> wrote in message
news:6f0f6fb6-fafc-4997-94e9-bb3e85a72df5@b1g2000pra.googlegroups.com...
From:http://www.nbc11.com/news/14817818/detail.html
"Police: Same Gunman Attacked Both Churches
Great.
Tack another one onto the list.
What do all these have in common?
The Millerites.
Jack Ruby.
Jim Jones.
David Koresh.
The Oklahoma City bombing.
Ruby Ridge.
The Freeman standoff.
And now Matthew Murray.
Answer: Post-Reformation Dispensationalist theology which promises that
which God never said He would deliver.
Ike
I don't see what this answer, or your argument with Mart T over this,
have to do with that man shooting 9 people and himself.
???
Mark T?
He wasn't a
member of a cult like the Jim Jones cult and the government didn't
come after him like in the Ruby Ridge incident.
Where did Jim Jones and "The People's Temple" originate, Linda?
The Disciples of Christ, a Dispensationalist post-Plymouth Brethren
false-prophecy spouting cult church.
Who were the Millerites?
ANOTHER post-Plymouth Brethren false-prophecy spouting cult church.
Who was Jack Ruby deathly afraid of, and why wouldn't Justice Warren
transfer him to Washington to hear his testimony?
Because Warren was afraid of a religious war breaking out in the U.S. as
Ruby was prepared to blame (true or not) the Kennedy Assassination on the
John Birch Society, yet ANOTHER a group of anti-Catholic, anti-Jewish "Good
Baptists Folk" who teach the post-Plymouth Brethren Dispensationalist false
prophecies.
And you can keep going right down the line.
David Koresh? The Seventh Day Adventists, originally the Seventh Day
Adventists Baptist Conference.
The Oklahoma City Bombings? Timothy McVeigh was ALSO of Koresh's Seventh Day
Adventist offshoots.
Ruby Ridge? More Dispensationalist survivalists convinced the world was
about to end because of Dispensationalist interpretations of prophecy.
The Freeman Standoff? Even MORE Dispensationalist survivalists.
Now comes Matthew Murray. Looking at his posts, one realizes that He
realized that Pentecostalism is a lie, as miraculous powers are given to
support the message, NOT the messenger. He realized that end-time
"Here-comes-Jesus-we're-about-to-fly-away" Dispensationalism is a load of
crap. He realized that all of the modern day fundamentalist rigidity and
dogma is simply the attempt by the modern day Pharisees to control and
manipulate their congregations to their own ends.
Unfortunately, he DIDN'T figure out that Jesus wasn't the problem, but the
people telling him about Jesus.
But who was there to tell him?
Thus, the young man was totally disillusioned by the sham of a cult that he
was trapped in, and decided to rebel by acting out most viciously and
violently.
And what is "Post-Reformation Dispensationalist theology"; what does
it promise that isn't scriptural?
Pentecostalism/Dispensationalist/Modernist Christianity is the worst of all
worlds, teaching the rapture myths, miraculous powers the practitioners
don't have, the imminent arrival of Jesus (for over 200 years now), strict
adherence to interpretations of laws made by people who are only marginally
Christian themselves at best, coerced by frauds dabbling in every arena of
glory, honor, power, wisdom, riches, blessing, and strength, making people
think they are advancing the Gospel when they are actually just advancing
their own private agenda, etc., etc.
Even the GOSPEL of Dispensationalism is false, and has been in the American
churches since the beginning. Whereas Christ taught a back-loaded life-long
discipline, they teach a front-loaded instantaneous circus-tent revivalism
that has nothing to do with Jesus and His Gospel.
It's no wonder he attacked churches. To him, everything the church taught
him was a lie, and he was right, because he came from a lying church, and
everything they told him WAS a lie.
Too bad no one was there to tell him about Jesus.
Ike
.
|
|
|
| User: "Linda Lee" |
|
| Title: Re: Poster on Internet Threatening to Kill Christians Shoots 9 andKills 4 Christians and Himself |
13 Dec 2007 10:27:21 AM |
|
|
On Dec 13, 10:40 am, "H.E. Eickleberry, Jr."
<xeickleberrybo...@verizon.net> wrote:
"Linda Lee" <lindagirl...@juno.com> wrote in message
news:51234c0d-83e7-4fa5-9ebc-5b3199111d95@t1g2000pra.googlegroups.com...
On Dec 13, 12:57 am, "H.E. Eickleberry, Jr."
<xeickleberrybo...@verizon.net> wrote:
"Linda Lee" <lindagirl...@juno.com> wrote in message
news:6f0f6fb6-fafc-4997-94e9-bb3e85a72df5@b1g2000pra.googlegroups.com...
From:http://www.nbc11.com/news/14817818/detail.html
"Police: Same Gunman Attacked Both Churches
Great.
Tack another one onto the list.
What do all these have in common?
The Millerites.
Jack Ruby.
Jim Jones.
David Koresh.
The Oklahoma City bombing.
Ruby Ridge.
The Freeman standoff.
And now Matthew Murray.
Answer: Post-Reformation Dispensationalist theology which promises that
which God never said He would deliver.
Ike
I don't see what this answer, or your argument with Mart T over this,
have to do with that man shooting 9 people and himself.
???
Mark T?
He wasn't a
member of a cult like the Jim Jones cult and the government didn't
come after him like in the Ruby Ridge incident.
Where did Jim Jones and "The People's Temple" originate, Linda?
The Disciples of Christ, a Dispensationalist post-Plymouth Brethren
false-prophecy spouting cult church.
Who were the Millerites?
ANOTHER post-Plymouth Brethren false-prophecy spouting cult church.
Who was Jack Ruby deathly afraid of, and why wouldn't Justice Warren
transfer him to Washington to hear his testimony?
Because Warren was afraid of a religious war breaking out in the U.S. as
Ruby was prepared to blame (true or not) the Kennedy Assassination on the
John Birch Society, yet ANOTHER a group of anti-Catholic, anti-Jewish "Good
Baptists Folk" who teach the post-Plymouth Brethren Dispensationalist false
prophecies.
And you can keep going right down the line.
David Koresh? The Seventh Day Adventists, originally the Seventh Day
Adventists Baptist Conference.
The Oklahoma City Bombings? Timothy McVeigh was ALSO of Koresh's Seventh Day
Adventist offshoots.
Ruby Ridge? More Dispensationalist survivalists convinced the world was
about to end because of Dispensationalist interpretations of prophecy.
The Freeman Standoff? Even MORE Dispensationalist survivalists.
Now comes Matthew Murray. Looking at his posts, one realizes that He
realized that Pentecostalism is a lie, as miraculous powers are given to
support the message, NOT the messenger. He realized that end-time
"Here-comes-Jesus-we're-about-to-fly-away" Dispensationalism is a load of
crap. He realized that all of the modern day fundamentalist rigidity and
dogma is simply the attempt by the modern day Pharisees to control and
manipulate their congregations to their own ends.
Unfortunately, he DIDN'T figure out that Jesus wasn't the problem, but the
people telling him about Jesus.
But who was there to tell him?
Thus, the young man was totally disillusioned by the sham of a cult that he
was trapped in, and decided to rebel by acting out most viciously and
violently.
And what is "Post-Reformation Dispensationalist theology"; what does
it promise that isn't scriptural?
Pentecostalism/Dispensationalist/Modernist Christianity is the worst of all
worlds, teaching the rapture myths, miraculous powers the practitioners
don't have, the imminent arrival of Jesus (for over 200 years now), strict
adherence to interpretations of laws made by people who are only marginally
Christian themselves at best, coerced by frauds dabbling in every arena of
glory, honor, power, wisdom, riches, blessing, and strength, making people
think they are advancing the Gospel when they are actually just advancing
their own private agenda, etc., etc.
Even the GOSPEL of Dispensationalism is false, and has been in the American
churches since the beginning. Whereas Christ taught a back-loaded life-long
discipline, they teach a front-loaded instantaneous circus-tent revivalism
that has nothing to do with Jesus and His Gospel.
It's no wonder he attacked churches. To him, everything the church taught
him was a lie, and he was right, because he came from a lying church, and
everything they told him WAS a lie.
Too bad no one was there to tell him about Jesus.
Ike- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
I did not realize that *all* of them taught the Rapture theory. You're
right; it doesn't jibe with Scripture and they use a verse from Paul
to support it. I knew Koresh and Jones taught that and that they
themselves were the Christ. Both Koresh and Jones either physically
abused or sexually abused young children and both psychologically
abused and enslaved the adults and armed them with weapons.
I also agree that the Islamic 'faith' is just a competitor to be the
favored 'son' when God did not choose them, which is why they had to
write their own Bible, the Koran, instead of using the Scriptures of
the Jews whose God they profess to follow but whom they've renamed.
.
|
|
|
| User: "H.E. Eickleberry, Jr." |
|
| Title: Re: Poster on Internet Threatening to Kill Christians Shoots 9 and Kills 4 Christians and Himself |
13 Dec 2007 11:30:08 AM |
|
|
"Linda Lee" <lindagirl444@juno.com> wrote in message
news:ebf5809b-f948-463e-8f8f-a7099f5733ac@d21g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
On Dec 13, 10:40 am, "H.E. Eickleberry, Jr."
<xeickleberrybo...@verizon.net> wrote:
"Linda Lee" <lindagirl...@juno.com> wrote in message
news:51234c0d-83e7-4fa5-9ebc-5b3199111d95@t1g2000pra.googlegroups.com...
On Dec 13, 12:57 am, "H.E. Eickleberry, Jr."
<xeickleberrybo...@verizon.net> wrote:
"Linda Lee" <lindagirl...@juno.com> wrote in message
news:6f0f6fb6-fafc-4997-94e9-bb3e85a72df5@b1g2000pra.googlegroups.com...
From:http://www.nbc11.com/news/14817818/detail.html
"Police: Same Gunman Attacked Both Churches
Great.
Tack another one onto the list.
What do all these have in common?
The Millerites.
Jack Ruby.
Jim Jones.
David Koresh.
The Oklahoma City bombing.
Ruby Ridge.
The Freeman standoff.
And now Matthew Murray.
Answer: Post-Reformation Dispensationalist theology which promises
that
which God never said He would deliver.
Ike
I don't see what this answer, or your argument with Mart T over this,
have to do with that man shooting 9 people and himself.
???
Mark T?
He wasn't a
member of a cult like the Jim Jones cult and the government didn't
come after him like in the Ruby Ridge incident.
Where did Jim Jones and "The People's Temple" originate, Linda?
The Disciples of Christ, a Dispensationalist post-Plymouth Brethren
false-prophecy spouting cult church.
Who were the Millerites?
ANOTHER post-Plymouth Brethren false-prophecy spouting cult church.
Who was Jack Ruby deathly afraid of, and why wouldn't Justice Warren
transfer him to Washington to hear his testimony?
Because Warren was afraid of a religious war breaking out in the U.S. as
Ruby was prepared to blame (true or not) the Kennedy Assassination on the
John Birch Society, yet ANOTHER a group of anti-Catholic, anti-Jewish
"Good
Baptists Folk" who teach the post-Plymouth Brethren Dispensationalist
false
prophecies.
And you can keep going right down the line.
David Koresh? The Seventh Day Adventists, originally the Seventh Day
Adventists Baptist Conference.
The Oklahoma City Bombings? Timothy McVeigh was ALSO of Koresh's Seventh
Day
Adventist offshoots.
Ruby Ridge? More Dispensationalist survivalists convinced the world was
about to end because of Dispensationalist interpretations of prophecy.
The Freeman Standoff? Even MORE Dispensationalist survivalists.
Now comes Matthew Murray. Looking at his posts, one realizes that He
realized that Pentecostalism is a lie, as miraculous powers are given to
support the message, NOT the messenger. He realized that end-time
"Here-comes-Jesus-we're-about-to-fly-away" Dispensationalism is a load of
crap. He realized that all of the modern day fundamentalist rigidity and
dogma is simply the attempt by the modern day Pharisees to control and
manipulate their congregations to their own ends.
Unfortunately, he DIDN'T figure out that Jesus wasn't the problem, but
the
people telling him about Jesus.
But who was there to tell him?
Thus, the young man was totally disillusioned by the sham of a cult that
he
was trapped in, and decided to rebel by acting out most viciously and
violently.
And what is "Post-Reformation Dispensationalist theology"; what does
it promise that isn't scriptural?
Pentecostalism/Dispensationalist/Modernist Christianity is the worst of
all
worlds, teaching the rapture myths, miraculous powers the practitioners
don't have, the imminent arrival of Jesus (for over 200 years now),
strict
adherence to interpretations of laws made by people who are only
marginally
Christian themselves at best, coerced by frauds dabbling in every arena
of
glory, honor, power, wisdom, riches, blessing, and strength, making
people
think they are advancing the Gospel when they are actually just advancing
their own private agenda, etc., etc.
Even the GOSPEL of Dispensationalism is false, and has been in the
American
churches since the beginning. Whereas Christ taught a back-loaded
life-long
discipline, they teach a front-loaded instantaneous circus-tent
revivalism
that has nothing to do with Jesus and His Gospel.
It's no wonder he attacked churches. To him, everything the church taught
him was a lie, and he was right, because he came from a lying church, and
everything they told him WAS a lie.
Too bad no one was there to tell him about Jesus.
Ike- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
I did not realize that *all* of them taught the Rapture theory. You're
right; it doesn't jibe with Scripture and they use a verse from Paul
to support it.
It's more than just the rapture theory that causes these problems, but the
entire eschatological approach that turns discipline into false
anticipation.
Add pseudo-Pentecostalism and legalism to the mix and you wind up with an
explosive combination...literally.
I knew Koresh and Jones taught that and that they
themselves were the Christ. Both Koresh and Jones either physically
abused or sexually abused young children and both psychologically
abused and enslaved the adults and armed them with weapons.
Right, but the important thing to note is that all these lunatics were
grounded in the exact same theology source--post-Plymouth Brethren
Dispensationalist interpretations of scripture with antisocial, anti-Jewish,
anti-Catholic, anti-communist, distrust-the-government demagoguery added.
I also agree that the Islamic 'faith' is just a competitor to be the
favored 'son' when God did not choose them, which is why they had to
write their own Bible, the Koran, instead of using the Scriptures of
the Jews whose God they profess to follow but whom they've renamed.
Right.
That's the double lie of Islam.
1) Switch the chosen and rejected sons of the Old Book.
2) Diminish Jesus in the New Book.
That way, they can keep the fight over Abraham's promises (which they will
never have any part in) alive.
Ike
.
|
|
|
| User: "Linda Lee" |
|
| Title: Re: Poster on Internet Threatening to Kill Christians Shoots 9 andKills 4 Christians and Himself |
14 Dec 2007 03:21:31 PM |
|
|
On Dec 13, 12:30 pm, "H.E. Eickleberry, Jr."
<xeickleberrybo...@verizon.net> wrote:
"Linda Lee" <lindagirl...@juno.com> wrote in message
news:ebf5809b-f948-463e-8f8f-a7099f5733ac@d21g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
On Dec 13, 10:40 am, "H.E. Eickleberry, Jr."
<xeickleberrybo...@verizon.net> wrote:
"Linda Lee" <lindagirl...@juno.com> wrote in message
news:51234c0d-83e7-4fa5-9ebc-5b3199111d95@t1g2000pra.googlegroups.com...
On Dec 13, 12:57 am, "H.E. Eickleberry, Jr."
<xeickleberrybo...@verizon.net> wrote:
"Linda Lee" <lindagirl...@juno.com> wrote in message
news:6f0f6fb6-fafc-4997-94e9-bb3e85a72df5@b1g2000pra.googlegroups.com...
From:http://www.nbc11.com/news/14817818/detail.html
"Police: Same Gunman Attacked Both Churches
Great.
Tack another one onto the list.
What do all these have in common?
The Millerites.
Jack Ruby.
Jim Jones.
David Koresh.
The Oklahoma City bombing.
Ruby Ridge.
The Freeman standoff.
And now Matthew Murray.
Answer: Post-Reformation Dispensationalist theology which promises
that
which God never said He would deliver.
Ike
I don't see what this answer, or your argument with Mart T over this,
have to do with that man shooting 9 people and himself.
???
Mark T?
He wasn't a
member of a cult like the Jim Jones cult and the government didn't
come after him like in the Ruby Ridge incident.
Where did Jim Jones and "The People's Temple" originate, Linda?
The Disciples of Christ, a Dispensationalist post-Plymouth Brethren
false-prophecy spouting cult church.
Who were the Millerites?
ANOTHER post-Plymouth Brethren false-prophecy spouting cult church.
Who was Jack Ruby deathly afraid of, and why wouldn't Justice Warren
transfer him to Washington to hear his testimony?
Because Warren was afraid of a religious war breaking out in the U.S. as
Ruby was prepared to blame (true or not) the Kennedy Assassination on the
John Birch Society, yet ANOTHER a group of anti-Catholic, anti-Jewish
"Good
Baptists Folk" who teach the post-Plymouth Brethren Dispensationalist
false
prophecies.
And you can keep going right down the line.
David Koresh? The Seventh Day Adventists, originally the Seventh Day
Adventists Baptist Conference.
The Oklahoma City Bombings? Timothy McVeigh was ALSO of Koresh's Seventh
Day
Adventist offshoots.
Ruby Ridge? More Dispensationalist survivalists convinced the world was
about to end because of Dispensationalist interpretations of prophecy.
The Freeman Standoff? Even MORE Dispensationalist survivalists.
Now comes Matthew Murray. Looking at his posts, one realizes that He
realized that Pentecostalism is a lie, as miraculous powers are given to
support the message, NOT the messenger. He realized that end-time
"Here-comes-Jesus-we're-about-to-fly-away" Dispensationalism is a load of
crap. He realized that all of the modern day fundamentalist rigidity and
dogma is simply the attempt by the modern day Pharisees to control and
manipulate their congregations to their own ends.
Unfortunately, he DIDN'T figure out that Jesus wasn't the problem, but
the
people telling him about Jesus.
But who was there to tell him?
Thus, the young man was totally disillusioned by the sham of a cult that
he
was trapped in, and decided to rebel by acting out most viciously and
violently.
And what is "Post-Reformation Dispensationalist theology"; what does
it promise that isn't scriptural?
Pentecostalism/Dispensationalist/Modernist Christianity is the worst of
all
worlds, teaching the rapture myths, miraculous powers the practitioners
don't have, the imminent arrival of Jesus (for over 200 years now),
strict
adherence to interpretations of laws made by people who are only
marginally
Christian themselves at best, coerced by frauds dabbling in every arena
of
glory, honor, power, wisdom, riches, blessing, and strength, making
people
think they are advancing the Gospel when they are actually just advancing
their own private agenda, etc., etc.
Even the GOSPEL of Dispensationalism is false, and has been in the
American
churches since the beginning. Whereas Christ taught a back-loaded
life-long
discipline, they teach a front-loaded instantaneous circus-tent
revivalism
that has nothing to do with Jesus and His Gospel.
It's no wonder he attacked churches. To him, everything the church taught
him was a lie, and he was right, because he came from a lying church, and
everything they told him WAS a lie.
Too bad no one was there to tell him about Jesus.
Ike- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
I did not realize that *all* of them taught the Rapture theory. You're
right; it doesn't jibe with Scripture and they use a verse from Paul
to support it.
It's more than just the rapture theory that causes these problems, but the
entire eschatological approach that turns discipline into false
anticipation.
Add pseudo-Pentecostalism and legalism to the mix and you wind up with an
explosive combination...literally.
I knew Koresh and Jones taught that and that they
themselves were the Christ. Both Koresh and Jones either physically
abused or sexually abused young children and both psychologically
abused and enslaved the adults and armed them with weapons.
Right, but the important thing to note is that all these lunatics were
grounded in the exact same theology source--post-Plymouth Brethren
Dispensationalist interpretations of scripture with antisocial, anti-Jewish,
anti-Catholic, anti-communist, distrust-the-government demagoguery added.
I also agree that the Islamic 'faith' is just a competitor to be the
favored 'son' when God did not choose them, which is why they had to
write their own Bible, the Koran, instead of using the Scriptures of
the Jews whose God they profess to follow but whom they've renamed.
Right.
That's the double lie of Islam.
1) Switch the chosen and rejected sons of the Old Book.
2) Diminish Jesus in the New Book.
That way, they can keep the fight over Abraham's promises (which they will
never have any part in) alive.
Ike- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
I think it is wrong to 'blame the victim' in this case and make the
victims the cause of their own murders. The man likely had some sort
of brain dysfunction (brain damage, tumor, mental illness) that caused
his assault. He killed himself too, which shows he was ill, not just
fighting against false doctrine.
Blaming the victim is something which is done in cases of women being
raped. Many say she 'shouldn't have been there' as if women should
stay home in seclusion and have no freedom at all or she 'shouldn't
have been dressed that way' as if they should cover their heads and
wear long robes like in the Islamic countries. I can tell you for a
fact that none of that is true. I've had men try to force themselves
on me when I was in long pants and in a supposedly safe environment.
It doesn't matter. It's been on the news just this week that a man
raped and then smothered to death and 18 month-old baby and another
raped a 94-year old woman locally.
Were they in the wrong place or improperly dressed? No. Blaming the
victim is a cop-out.
Also, I don't believe your statement that God won't help the victims
just because they may be ignorant or have some scriptures wrong or
expect to be 'raptured up'. If they ask God for help, he will give it
to them.
.
|
|
|
| User: "H.E. Eickleberry, Jr." |
|
| Title: Re: Poster on Internet Threatening to Kill Christians Shoots 9 and Kills 4 Christians and Himself |
14 Dec 2007 11:54:42 PM |
|
|
"Linda Lee" <lindagirl444@juno.com> wrote in message
news:35e7f349-1a0b-4ad7-b720-ea127cfc6c7b@s12g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
[snip]
I think it is wrong to 'blame the victim' in this case and make the
victims the cause of their own murders.
But they DID cause their own murders.
The man likely had some sort
of brain dysfunction (brain damage, tumor, mental illness) that caused
his assault.
That's right, and it was inflicted by the people he went after.
He killed himself too, which shows he was ill, not just
fighting against false doctrine.
Do you want to know what he was "sick" of?
Quotes from Matthew Murray's newsgroup postings...
"We see all these christians trying to force their beliefs,
pseudo-morality and bulls*** on everyone(usually for money and power),
telling everyone they need to "repent, send us money, and obey our
interpretations of the bible" so they can be let into heaven, have their
imaginary sins "forgiven" and not be sent to hell by their "loving"
pseduo-God."
You raped the soul from the child in me.......
Bow down to the land of the free
Bow down to your world that made me me
Bury the nails into the one like me
Consecrating the lies and exalting false prophecy
Tearing apart souls of man and all his goals
Offer benedictions and wills to plague your...
Souls....is made, in a so-called God
The taste of sulfur and rain
Your churchianity christ now turns on man
And brings him pain
Bow down to a lying clergy of sodomy
Bow down to the world that rejected me....
A gun to the temple of a world enslaved
by the lies that bind us to a faded hope
And a promise of salvation that is only a lie
Ensures the perversion that you try to hide
will become as dust that will fade in time
To take this world of hate
Of torture, our fate
Will rest in hands
That sow the seeds of rape
thank you to all you christians who've made me this way....
you've added to the rage........
I'm just so full of hate now and I love it............
forcing all your religious ***** down my throat all these fuckin years
with your dominionist christian agenda....
like in Jesus Camp.....
well...
the abuse ends NOW.........
give me one good reason why I should show ANY mercy and compassion for ANY
of you idiots........
you christians never showed me any mercy nor compassion.........
me, I still believe in a loving God....
but not the christian god who is full of hate....
and never did anything at all all these years while I've cried out for
answers for spiritual truth.......
your christian God never did one thing about any of the abuse me and my
christian friends went through..........
why the f*** should I care about any morals?
You gave in to a lie
The cross that feeds on your mind
I've seen the lies that reflect in your eyes
It's just a matter of time
From holy scriptures unfurl twisted lines
And when you die the cause will be from self infliction
Your pointless life will only lead to crucifixion
He wasn't there
He won't be there to wipe the tears from your eyes
Your wasted breath has betrayed you
The peace you sought
You'll never find through prayer
And through his hatred divine
You left your whole life behind you.....
Blaming the victim is something which is done in cases of women being
raped. Many say she 'shouldn't have been there' as if women should
stay home in seclusion and have no freedom at all or she 'shouldn't
have been dressed that way' as if they should cover their heads and
wear long robes like in the Islamic countries. I can tell you for a
fact that none of that is true. I've had men try to force themselves
on me when I was in long pants and in a supposedly safe environment.
It doesn't matter. It's been on the news just this week that a man
raped and then smothered to death and 18 month-old baby and another
raped a 94-year old woman locally.
Totally irrelevant to the situation.
Were they in the wrong place or improperly dressed? No. Blaming the
victim is a cop-out.
In this case, the victims created their monster.
Also, I don't believe your statement that God won't help the victims
just because they may be ignorant or have some scriptures wrong or
expect to be 'raptured up'. If they ask God for help, he will give it
to them.
Wow.
Since when does God assist the criminals in their crimes?
These people are among the Pharisees, Sadducees, and Herodians of our day.
They just wear a cross instead of a star of David, but you assume because
the say "Lord, Lord," they are of the Lord.
Big mistake.
But such is the disease of this Sardinian age.
Ike
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| User: "Mark T moi@home000whatever80" |
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| Title: Re: Poster on Internet Threatening to Kill Christians Shoots 9 and Kills 4 Christians and Himself |
15 Dec 2007 12:03:17 AM |
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"H.E. Eickleberry, Jr." <xeickleberrybooks@verizon.net> wrote:
I think it is wrong to 'blame the victim' in this case and make the
victims the cause of their own murders.
But they DID cause their own murders.
Have you taken your medication today?
But such is the disease of this Sardinian age.
Oh ... is this the Age of Sardines????
--
"All things are probable. Try to believe." - Mark 17:1 (MTV)
"Really! Try to believe even if it's bloody stupid and irrational." - Mark
17:2 (MTV)
"Why? Because I said so, that's why! Don't ask questions. Just
believe." - Mark 17:3 (MTV)
--
My Blog - MARK T - my thoughts on Christianity & links
http://www.blognow.com.au/strooth/
FUNDY FUNHOUSE -
http://fundamentalistfunhouse.blogspot.com/
- a resource on the current Fundamentalist Dark Age and Christian
fundamentalism.
My Soundclick Page - download my original songs in mp3 format
http://www.soundclick.com/marktindall
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Threatening to Kill Christians Shoots 9 and Kills 4 Christians and Himself |
16 Dec 2007 12:30:38 PM |
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victim is a cop-out.
In this case, the victims created their monster.
Also, I don't believe your statement that God won't help the victims
just because they may be ignorant or have some scriptures wrong or
expect to be 'raptured up'. If they ask God for help, he will give it
to them.
I do not believe killing anyone is right. However, as far as the
motive, I do believe all Christians are evil and all of them should
be placed in mental hospitals and be required to go thru cult
deprogramming to (hopefully) remove their brainwashing. All religious
leaders should be the first ones to go for this help, since they are
the ones who are doing all the brainwashing. Christianity is the
largest and most evil cult on earth.
United Against Christ
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| User: "H.E. Eickleberry, Jr." |
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| Title: Re: Threatening to Kill Christians Shoots 9 and Kills 4 Christians and Himself |
16 Dec 2007 12:56:48 PM |
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<united.against.christ@noneofyourbizness.com> wrote in message
news:b7ram39nqngltjffo9abue8f2ecroue3a0@4ax.com...
victim is a cop-out.
In this case, the victims created their monster.
Also, I don't believe your statement that God won't help the victims
just because they may be ignorant or have some scriptures wrong or
expect to be 'raptured up'. If they ask God for help, he will give it
to them.
I do not believe killing anyone is right. However, as far as the
motive, I do believe all Christians are evil and all of them should
be placed in mental hospitals and be required to go thru cult
deprogramming to (hopefully) remove their brainwashing. All religious
leaders should be the first ones to go for this help, since they are
the ones who are doing all the brainwashing. Christianity is the
largest and most evil cult on earth.
Spoken like a true end-time persecutor.
The Bible isn't the problem.
Jesus isn't the problem.
Christianity isn't the problem.
The problem is at both extremes of the range, from those who advance their
own private agendas at Christ's expense to those who scoff at Christ's works
to their own destruction.
It's obvious which end of the spectrum you are on.
Ike
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| User: "Thurisaz, warrior of Thor" |
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| Title: Re: Threatening to Kill Christians Shoots 9 and Kills 4 Christians and Himself |
16 Dec 2007 09:26:56 PM |
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H.E. Eickleberry, Jr.:
Christianity isn't the problem.
Define "christianity".
People have read the bible and become almost literally saints. Other people
have read the same bible and... well... torquemada, the crusaders, phelps
and today's televangelists... you get the message.
The problem is at both extremes of the range, from those who advance their
own private agendas at Christ's expense to those who scoff at Christ's
works to their own destruction.
Assuming, of course, that jesus ever really existed, which is... *cough
cough*... not too likely.
--
Thurisaz, warrior of Thor, natural enemy of morontheism
The judgment of morontheism: http://www.carcosa.de/nojebus
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| User: "Thurisaz, warrior of Thor" |
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| Title: Re: Threatening to Kill Christians Shoots 9 and Kills 4 Christians and Himself |
16 Dec 2007 09:24:36 PM |
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united.against.christ@noneofyourbizness.com:
I do not believe killing anyone is right. However, as far as the
motive, I do believe all Christians are evil and all of them should
be placed in mental hospitals and be required to go thru cult
deprogramming to (hopefully) remove their brainwashing.
To be fair, not all christians are morontheists who prefer dogma to reality.
In fact, all christians I know _personally_ (internet doesn't count) are
decent people who out of the whole book embrace _only_ the "love your
neighbor" and "judge not" parts. They are commonly just as shocked and
disgusted as any nonchristian upon encountering morontheists like phelps or
those televangelists... or shrubbenführer for that matter.
I do not hold any love for the jebus cult per se, but I respect these
believers... because they in turn respect me. :)
(This whole thing, of course, demonstrates clearly that da babble is
worthless as a guide to anything, considering that people reading the same
thing come to totally incompatible conclusions)
--
Thurisaz, warrior of Thor, natural enemy of morontheism
The judgment of morontheism: http://www.carcosa.de/nojebus
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Poster on Internet Threatening to Kill Christians Shoots 9 andKills 4 Christians and Himself |
13 Dec 2007 12:54:48 PM |
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On Dec 13, 9:30 am, "H.E. Eickleberry, Jr."
<xeickleberrybo...@verizon.net> wrote:
"Linda Lee" <lindagirl...@juno.com> wrote in message
news:ebf5809b-f948-463e-8f8f-a7099f5733ac@d21g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
On Dec 13, 10:40 am, "H.E. Eickleberry, Jr."
<xeickleberrybo...@verizon.net> wrote:
"Linda Lee" <lindagirl...@juno.com> wrote in message
news:51234c0d-83e7-4fa5-9ebc-5b3199111d95@t1g2000pra.googlegroups.com...
On Dec 13, 12:57 am, "H.E. Eickleberry, Jr."
<xeickleberrybo...@verizon.net> wrote:
"Linda Lee" <lindagirl...@juno.com> wrote in message
news:6f0f6fb6-fafc-4997-94e9-bb3e85a72df5@b1g2000pra.googlegroups.com...
From:http://www.nbc11.com/news/14817818/detail.html
"Police: Same Gunman Attacked Both Churches
Great.
Tack another one onto the list.
What do all these have in common?
The Millerites.
Jack Ruby.
Jim Jones.
David Koresh.
The Oklahoma City bombing.
Ruby Ridge.
The Freeman standoff.
And now Matthew Murray.
Answer: Post-Reformation Dispensationalist theology which promises
that
which God never said He would deliver.
Ike
I don't see what this answer, or your argument with Mart T over this,
have to do with that man shooting 9 people and himself.
???
Mark T?
He wasn't a
member of a cult like the Jim Jones cult and the government didn't
come after him like in the Ruby Ridge incident.
Where did Jim Jones and "The People's Temple" originate, Linda?
The Disciples of Christ, a Dispensationalist post-Plymouth Brethren
false-prophecy spouting cult church.
Who were the Millerites?
ANOTHER post-Plymouth Brethren false-prophecy spouting cult church.
Who was Jack Ruby deathly afraid of, and why wouldn't Justice Warren
transfer him to Washington to hear his testimony?
Because Warren was afraid of a religious war breaking out in the U.S. as
Ruby was prepared to blame (true or not) the Kennedy Assassination on the
John Birch Society, yet ANOTHER a group of anti-Catholic, anti-Jewish
"Good
Baptists Folk" who teach the post-Plymouth Brethren Dispensationalist
false
prophecies.
And you can keep going right down the line.
David Koresh? The Seventh Day Adventists, originally the Seventh Day
Adventists Baptist Conference.
The Oklahoma City Bombings? Timothy McVeigh was ALSO of Koresh's Seventh
Day
Adventist offshoots.
Ruby Ridge? More Dispensationalist survivalists convinced the world was
about to end because of Dispensationalist interpretations of prophecy.
The Freeman Standoff? Even MORE Dispensationalist survivalists.
Now comes Matthew Murray. Looking at his posts, one realizes that He
realized that Pentecostalism is a lie, as miraculous powers are given to
support the message, NOT the messenger. He realized that end-time
"Here-comes-Jesus-we're-about-to-fly-away" Dispensationalism is a load of
crap. He realized that all of the modern day fundamentalist rigidity and
dogma is simply the attempt by the modern day Pharisees to control and
manipulate their congregations to their own ends.
Unfortunately, he DIDN'T figure out that Jesus wasn't the problem, but
the
people telling him about Jesus.
But who was there to tell him?
Thus, the young man was totally disillusioned by the sham of a cult that
he
was trapped in, and decided to rebel by acting out most viciously and
violently.
And what is "Post-Reformation Dispensationalist theology"; what does
it promise that isn't scriptural?
Pentecostalism/Dispensationalist/Modernist Christianity is the worst of
all
worlds, teaching the rapture myths, miraculous powers the practitioners
don't have, the imminent arrival of Jesus (for over 200 years now),
strict
adherence to interpretations of laws made by people who are only
marginally
Christian themselves at best, coerced by frauds dabbling in every arena
of
glory, honor, power, wisdom, riches, blessing, and strength, making
people
think they are advancing the Gospel when they are actually just advancing
their own private agenda, etc., etc.
Even the GOSPEL of Dispensationalism is false, and has been in the
American
churches since the beginning. Whereas Christ taught a back-loaded
life-long
discipline, they teach a front-loaded instantaneous circus-tent
revivalism
that has nothing to do with Jesus and His Gospel.
It's no wonder he attacked churches. To him, everything the church taught
him was a lie, and he was right, because he came from a lying church, and
everything they told him WAS a lie.
Too bad no one was there to tell him about Jesus.
Ike- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
I did not realize that *all* of them taught the Rapture theory. You're
right; it doesn't jibe with Scripture and they use a verse from Paul
to support it.
It's more than just the rapture theory that causes these problems, but the
entire eschatological approach that turns discipline into false
anticipation.
Add pseudo-Pentecostalism and legalism to the mix and you wind up with an
explosive combination...literally.
I knew Koresh and Jones taught that and that they
themselves were the Christ. Both Koresh and Jones either physically
abused or sexually abused young children and both psychologically
abused and enslaved the adults and armed them with weapons.
Right, but the important thing to note is that all these lunatics were
grounded in the exact same theology source--post-Plymouth Brethren
Dispensationalist interpretations of scripture with antisocial, anti-Jewish,
anti-Catholic, anti-communist, distrust-the-government demagoguery added.
I also agree that the Islamic 'faith' is just a competitor to be the
favored 'son' when God did not choose them, which is why they had to
write their own Bible, the Koran, instead of using the Scriptures of
the Jews whose God they profess to follow but whom they've renamed.
Right.
That's the double lie of Islam.
1) Switch the chosen and rejected sons of the Old Book.
2) Diminish Jesus in the New Book.
That way, they can keep the fight over Abraham's promises (which they will
never have any part in) alive.
Ike- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Do you really think G-D would be so unfair as to choose some and
reject others, as a race? That is racism, pure and simple, a sign
that your G-D is not G-D, but a demon straight out of hell. Jesus
most certainly rejected the idea that G-D was only for the Jews. That
is why the Jews hated Him, showing once and for all that they were
"chosen" only by the Devil.
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| User: "H.E. Eickleberry, Jr." |
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| Title: Re: Poster on Internet Threatening to Kill Christians Shoots 9 and Kills 4 Christians and Himself |
13 Dec 2007 07:40:51 PM |
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<pjmutnick@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:9dcd970b-9b80-4616-8e19-fd5f6aa89679@b1g2000pra.googlegroups.com...
[snip]
Do you really think G-D would be so unfair as to choose some and
reject others, as a race?
Unfair?
No.
Did He do it?
Yes.
It was a necessary prerequisite to the next part, turning the racial divide
sideways into the faith/no-faith divide.
In other words, God took the previous Israel/non-Israel distinction and made
it the believer/non-believer distinction.
That is racism, pure and simple, a sign
that your G-D is not G-D, but a demon straight out of hell.
Right.
And it was God who established the races for His own purposes.
Jesus
most certainly rejected the idea that G-D was only for the Jews.
Before the crucifixion, Jesus barred His disciples from preaching to the
Gentiles because the Jews had to reject Him first BEFORE the Gospel could
come to the Gentiles.
That
is why the Jews hated Him, showing once and for all that they were
"chosen" only by the Devil.
Horseshit.
They were chosen to fulfill the function of God, and part of that function
was to sacrifice the perfect Lamb for the sake of all those who would
believe Christ.
They did their job.
That the leaders did it out of jealousy and spirit in no way diminishes
their guilt, but the common Jews were only mislead by the Pharisees,
Sadducees, and Herodians.
Regardless, it will be a cold day in hell before a single Muslim ever steps
foot in the Kingdom of God.
Arabs who accept Christ?
Yes.
Islamists?
Never.
Ike
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Poster on Internet Threatening to Kill Christians Shoots 9 andKills 4 Christians and Himself |
13 Dec 2007 12:59:52 PM |
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On Dec 13, 10:54 am, wrote:
On Dec 13, 9:30 am, "H.E. Eickleberry, Jr."
<xeickleberrybo...@verizon.net> wrote:
"Linda Lee" <lindagirl...@juno.com> wrote in message
news:ebf5809b-f948-463e-8f8f-a7099f5733ac@d21g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
On Dec 13, 10:40 am, "H.E. Eickleberry, Jr."
<xeickleberrybo...@verizon.net> wrote:
"Linda Lee" <lindagirl...@juno.com> wrote in message
news:51234c0d-83e7-4fa5-9ebc-5b3199111d95@t1g2000pra.googlegroups.com...
On Dec 13, 12:57 am, "H.E. Eickleberry, Jr."
<xeickleberrybo...@verizon.net> wrote:
"Linda Lee" <lindagirl...@juno.com> wrote in message
news:6f0f6fb6-fafc-4997-94e9-bb3e85a72df5@b1g2000pra.googlegroups.com...
From:http://www.nbc11.com/news/14817818/detail.html
"Police: Same Gunman Attacked Both Churches
Great.
Tack another one onto the list.
What do all these have in common?
The Millerites.
Jack Ruby.
Jim Jones.
David Koresh.
The Oklahoma City bombing.
Ruby Ridge.
The Freeman standoff.
And now Matthew Murray.
Answer: Post-Reformation Dispensationalist theology which promises
that
which God never said He would deliver.
Ike
I don't see what this answer, or your argument with Mart T over this,
have to do with that man shooting 9 people and himself.
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