| Topic: |
Religions > Bible |
| User: |
"Disciple Gaius" |
| Date: |
11 Apr 2007 07:00:24 PM |
| Object: |
Prostitution of Holy Things |
Matt. 7:6 "Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast
your pearls before the swine, lest haply they trample them under their
feet, and turn and rend you."
From the JFB: "Prostitution of Holy Things
The opposite extreme to that of censoriousness is here condemned --
want of discrimination of character.
'Give not that which is holy unto the dogs' -- savage or snarling
haters of truth and righteousness.
'neither cast ye your pearls before swine' -- the impure or coarse,
who are incapable of appreciating the priceless jewels of
Christianity. In the East, dogs are wilder and more gregarious, and,
feeding on carrion and garbage, are coarser and fiercer than the same
animals in the West. Dogs and swine, besides being ceremonially
unclean, were peculiarly repulsive to the Jews, and indeed to the
ancients generally.
'lest they trample them under their feet' -- as swine do.
'and turn again and rend you' -- as dogs do. Religion is brought into
contempt, and its professors insulted, when it is forced upon those
who cannot value it and will not have it. But while the
indiscriminately zealous have need of this caution, let us be on our
guard against too readily setting our neighbors down as dogs and
swine, and excusing ourselves from endeavoring to do them good on this
poor plea.
From the Geneva Bible notes:
The stiff-necked and stubborn enemies of the gospel are unworthy to
have it preached unto them. (a) A pearl is known among the Greeks for
its oriental brightness: and a pearl was in ancient times greatly
valued by the Latins: for a pearl that Cleopatra had was valued at two
hundred and fifty thousand crowns: and the word is now borrowed from
that, to signify the most precious heavenly doctrine.
Posted by The More Noble Disciple Gaius
.
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| User: "Pastor Dave" |
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| Title: Re: Prostitution of Holy Things |
12 Apr 2007 05:05:39 AM |
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On Thu, 12 Apr 2007 00:00:24 GMT, (Disciple
Gaius) claimed:
Matt. 7:6 "Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast
your pearls before the swine, lest haply they trample them under their
feet, and turn and rend you."
From the JFB: "Prostitution of Holy Things
The opposite extreme to that of censoriousness is here condemned --
want of discrimination of character.
'Give not that which is holy unto the dogs' -- savage or snarling
haters of truth and righteousness.
'neither cast ye your pearls before swine' -- the impure or coarse,
who are incapable of appreciating the priceless jewels of
Christianity. In the East, dogs are wilder and more gregarious, and,
feeding on carrion and garbage, are coarser and fiercer than the same
animals in the West. Dogs and swine, besides being ceremonially
unclean, were peculiarly repulsive to the Jews, and indeed to the
ancients generally.
'lest they trample them under their feet' -- as swine do.
'and turn again and rend you' -- as dogs do. Religion is brought into
contempt, and its professors insulted, when it is forced upon those
who cannot value it and will not have it. But while the
indiscriminately zealous have need of this caution, let us be on our
guard against too readily setting our neighbors down as dogs and
swine, and excusing ourselves from endeavoring to do them good on this
poor plea.
From the Geneva Bible notes:
The stiff-necked and stubborn enemies of the gospel are unworthy to
have it preached unto them. (a) A pearl is known among the Greeks for
its oriental brightness: and a pearl was in ancient times greatly
valued by the Latins: for a pearl that Cleopatra had was valued at two
hundred and fifty thousand crowns: and the word is now borrowed from
that, to signify the most precious heavenly doctrine.
Posted by The More Noble Disciple Gaius
I agree. Too many people think that they're being,
"unChristian", if they write someone off. But even
the Gospel teaches us that after the Gospel is rejected,
to "shake the dust off our heels as a testimony
against them".
Now most people, sue to their ignorance to the times
and way of life for these people, do not realize what
a big insult this was, to do this to someone! Thus,
the Jesus was outright telling them not to be polite
about it!
Of course, we shouldn't be intentionally rude to people
that are unbelievers, especially not right off. But when
they utterly refuse the Gospel, this, "Hey, you never
know when they might convert" thinking is only doing
harm and ends up keeping us associating with these
unbelievers and all that does, is give the testimony
that we don't mind them blaspheming the Gospel,
since hey, we hang out with them, don't we?
People need to think more about the message that
their friendship with these people is sending to others!
Jesus told us not to do that! And Paul said to come out
from among them and be separate!
--
The torture of a bad conscience, is the Hell
of a living soul. - John Calvin
.
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| User: "Disciple Gaius" |
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| Title: Re: Prostitution of Holy Things |
12 Apr 2007 09:26:07 AM |
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On Thu, 12 Apr 2007 03:05:39 -0700, Pastor Dave <noway@nowhere.com>
wrote:
On Thu, 12 Apr 2007 00:00:24 GMT, (Disciple
Gaius) claimed:
Matt. 7:6 "Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast
your pearls before the swine, lest haply they trample them under their
feet, and turn and rend you."
From the JFB: "Prostitution of Holy Things
The opposite extreme to that of censoriousness is here condemned --
want of discrimination of character.
'Give not that which is holy unto the dogs' -- savage or snarling
haters of truth and righteousness.
'neither cast ye your pearls before swine' -- the impure or coarse,
who are incapable of appreciating the priceless jewels of
Christianity. In the East, dogs are wilder and more gregarious, and,
feeding on carrion and garbage, are coarser and fiercer than the same
animals in the West. Dogs and swine, besides being ceremonially
unclean, were peculiarly repulsive to the Jews, and indeed to the
ancients generally.
'lest they trample them under their feet' -- as swine do.
'and turn again and rend you' -- as dogs do. Religion is brought into
contempt, and its professors insulted, when it is forced upon those
who cannot value it and will not have it. But while the
indiscriminately zealous have need of this caution, let us be on our
guard against too readily setting our neighbors down as dogs and
swine, and excusing ourselves from endeavoring to do them good on this
poor plea.
From the Geneva Bible notes:
The stiff-necked and stubborn enemies of the gospel are unworthy to
have it preached unto them. (a) A pearl is known among the Greeks for
its oriental brightness: and a pearl was in ancient times greatly
valued by the Latins: for a pearl that Cleopatra had was valued at two
hundred and fifty thousand crowns: and the word is now borrowed from
that, to signify the most precious heavenly doctrine.
Posted by The More Noble Disciple Gaius
I agree. Too many people think that they're being,
"unChristian", if they write someone off. But even
the Gospel teaches us that after the Gospel is rejected,
to "shake the dust off our heels as a testimony
against them".
Now most people, sue to their ignorance to the times
and way of life for these people, do not realize what
a big insult this was, to do this to someone! Thus,
the Jesus was outright telling them not to be polite
about it!
Of course, we shouldn't be intentionally rude to people
that are unbelievers, especially not right off. But when
they utterly refuse the Gospel, this, "Hey, you never
know when they might convert" thinking is only doing
harm and ends up keeping us associating with these
unbelievers and all that does, is give the testimony
that we don't mind them blaspheming the Gospel,
since hey, we hang out with them, don't we?
People need to think more about the message that
their friendship with these people is sending to others!
Jesus told us not to do that! And Paul said to come out
from among them and be separate!
--
The torture of a bad conscience, is the Hell
of a living soul. - John Calvin
Ah ha! It is good for us to find some agreement. :-) I agree heartily
with your assessment of the passage. It has troubled me some that as
we believers haggle and wrangle, as families will, over doctrines; we
may come across as if we are dealing with those who exhibit godless,
even satanic influence as quite a few do on these newsgroups.
I use the IVP Bible Background Commentary described as "An
indispensable resource for all students of the Bible, accessibly
providing the cultural background of every verse in the NT. On the
verse you mention, Mt. 10:14-15 it reads:
"Pious Jewish people returning to holy ground would not want even the
dust of pagan territory clinging to their sandals; Jesus'
representatives here treat unresponsive regions as unholy or pagan.
Sodom is set forth as the epitome of sinfulness both in the prophets
and in subsequent Jewish tradition; the point here is probably that
they rejected God's messengers, albeit lesser ones than Jesus (Gen
19)"
It is sad that in this day many seem proud to wear the label "unholy
or pagan".
The More Noble Disciple Gaius
.
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| User: "Pastor Dave" |
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| Title: Re: Prostitution of Holy Things |
14 Apr 2007 04:46:00 PM |
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On Thu, 12 Apr 2007 14:26:07 GMT, (Disciple
Gaius) claimed:
On Thu, 12 Apr 2007 03:05:39 -0700, Pastor Dave <noway@nowhere.com>
wrote:
On Thu, 12 Apr 2007 00:00:24 GMT, (Disciple
Gaius) claimed:
Matt. 7:6 "Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast
your pearls before the swine, lest haply they trample them under their
feet, and turn and rend you."
From the JFB: "Prostitution of Holy Things
The opposite extreme to that of censoriousness is here condemned --
want of discrimination of character.
'Give not that which is holy unto the dogs' -- savage or snarling
haters of truth and righteousness.
'neither cast ye your pearls before swine' -- the impure or coarse,
who are incapable of appreciating the priceless jewels of
Christianity. In the East, dogs are wilder and more gregarious, and,
feeding on carrion and garbage, are coarser and fiercer than the same
animals in the West. Dogs and swine, besides being ceremonially
unclean, were peculiarly repulsive to the Jews, and indeed to the
ancients generally.
'lest they trample them under their feet' -- as swine do.
'and turn again and rend you' -- as dogs do. Religion is brought into
contempt, and its professors insulted, when it is forced upon those
who cannot value it and will not have it. But while the
indiscriminately zealous have need of this caution, let us be on our
guard against too readily setting our neighbors down as dogs and
swine, and excusing ourselves from endeavoring to do them good on this
poor plea.
From the Geneva Bible notes:
The stiff-necked and stubborn enemies of the gospel are unworthy to
have it preached unto them. (a) A pearl is known among the Greeks for
its oriental brightness: and a pearl was in ancient times greatly
valued by the Latins: for a pearl that Cleopatra had was valued at two
hundred and fifty thousand crowns: and the word is now borrowed from
that, to signify the most precious heavenly doctrine.
Posted by The More Noble Disciple Gaius
I agree. Too many people think that they're being,
"unChristian", if they write someone off. But even
the Gospel teaches us that after the Gospel is rejected,
to "shake the dust off our heels as a testimony
against them".
Now most people, sue to their ignorance to the times
and way of life for these people, do not realize what
a big insult this was, to do this to someone! Thus,
the Jesus was outright telling them not to be polite
about it!
Of course, we shouldn't be intentionally rude to people
that are unbelievers, especially not right off. But when
they utterly refuse the Gospel, this, "Hey, you never
know when they might convert" thinking is only doing
harm and ends up keeping us associating with these
unbelievers and all that does, is give the testimony
that we don't mind them blaspheming the Gospel,
since hey, we hang out with them, don't we?
People need to think more about the message that
their friendship with these people is sending to others!
Jesus told us not to do that! And Paul said to come out
from among them and be separate!
--
The torture of a bad conscience, is the Hell
of a living soul. - John Calvin
Ah ha! It is good for us to find some agreement. :-) I agree heartily
with your assessment of the passage. It has troubled me some that as
we believers haggle and wrangle, as families will, over doctrines; we
may come across as if we are dealing with those who exhibit godless,
even satanic influence as quite a few do on these newsgroups.
I use the IVP Bible Background Commentary described as "An
indispensable resource for all students of the Bible, accessibly
providing the cultural background of every verse in the NT. On the
verse you mention, Mt. 10:14-15 it reads:
"Pious Jewish people returning to holy ground would not want even the
dust of pagan territory clinging to their sandals; Jesus'
representatives here treat unresponsive regions as unholy or pagan.
Sodom is set forth as the epitome of sinfulness both in the prophets
and in subsequent Jewish tradition; the point here is probably that
they rejected God's messengers, albeit lesser ones than Jesus (Gen
19)"
It is sad that in this day many seem proud to wear the label "unholy
or pagan".
The More Noble Disciple Gaius
That's a good note and it is accurate. But if memory serves,
that tradition actually started in the far east as an insult
against someone, meaning that they did not even want
the dust of their home, or town, on their feet and some
would also shake the dust off their feet at the border
of the town.
--
The torture of a bad conscience, is the Hell
of a living soul. - John Calvin
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Prostitution of Holy Things |
12 Apr 2007 09:46:53 AM |
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On Thu, 12 Apr 2007 00:00:24 GMT, (Disciple Gaius)
wrote:
Matt. 7:6 "Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast
your pearls before the swine, lest haply they trample them under their
feet, and turn and rend you."
From the JFB: "Prostitution of Holy Things
The opposite extreme to that of censoriousness is here condemned --
want of discrimination of character.
'Give not that which is holy unto the dogs' -- savage or snarling
haters of truth and righteousness.
'neither cast ye your pearls before swine' -- the impure or coarse,
who are incapable of appreciating the priceless jewels of
Christianity. In the East, dogs are wilder and more gregarious, and,
feeding on carrion and garbage, are coarser and fiercer than the same
animals in the West. Dogs and swine, besides being ceremonially
unclean, were peculiarly repulsive to the Jews, and indeed to the
ancients generally.
'lest they trample them under their feet' -- as swine do.
'and turn again and rend you' -- as dogs do. Religion is brought into
contempt, and its professors insulted, when it is forced upon those
who cannot value it and will not have it. But while the
indiscriminately zealous have need of this caution, let us be on our
guard against too readily setting our neighbors down as dogs and
swine, and excusing ourselves from endeavoring to do them good on this
poor plea.
From the Geneva Bible notes:
The stiff-necked and stubborn enemies of the gospel are unworthy to
have it preached unto them. (a) A pearl is known among the Greeks for
its oriental brightness: and a pearl was in ancient times greatly
valued by the Latins: for a pearl that Cleopatra had was valued at two
hundred and fifty thousand crowns: and the word is now borrowed from
that, to signify the most precious heavenly doctrine.
Posted by The More Noble Disciple Gaius
Lofty words indeed, coming from you, Gaius, however:
Your exaltations of 'yourself' are an open invitation to disaster.
You're tending to flatly ignore the fact that God reserves special
treatment (which ain't that pleasant, either) for your kind.
You remind me of the Pharisee who boasted about 'not being like the
others' and how much better he imagined himself to be than they
were....
You need to STUDY the Bible more:
Psa 34:2 My soul shall make her boast in the LORD: the humble shall
hear thereof, and be glad.
Gal 6:14 But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our
Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto
the world.
Psa 44:8 In God we boast all the day long, and praise thy name
forever. Selah.
(We should bring the glory TO GOD, not ourselves.)
Psa 49:6 They that trust in their wealth, and boast themselves in the
multitude of their riches;
Psa 49:7 None of them can by any means redeem his brother, nor give
to God a ransom for him:
Psa 49:8 (For the redemption of their soul is precious, and it
ceaseth forever:)
Psa 49:9 That he should still live forever, and not see corruption.
Psa 49:10 For he seeth that wise men die, likewise the fool and the
brutish person perish, and leave their wealth to others.
Psa 49:11 Their inward thought is, that their houses shall continue
forever, and their dwelling places to all generations; they call their
lands after their own names.
Psa 49:12 Nevertheless man being in honor abideth not: he is like the
beasts that perish.
Psa 49:13 This their way is their folly: yet their posterity approve
their sayings. Selah.
Psa 49:14 Like sheep they are laid in the grave; death shall feed on
them; and the upright shall have dominion over them in the morning;
and their beauty shall consume in the grave from their dwelling.
Psa 94:4 How long shall they utter and speak hard things? and all the
workers of iniquity boast themselves?
Pro 27:1 Boast not thyself of tomorrow; for thou knowest not what a
day may bring forth.
Rom 2:23 Thou that makest thy boast of the law, through breaking the
law dishonorest thou God?
Rom 11:18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou
bearest not the root, but the root thee.
Rom 11:19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I
might be grafted in.
Rom 11:20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou
standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
Rom 11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest
he also spare not thee.
A NOT-so-'nobler', but honest and humble Elaine.
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| User: "Disciple Gaius" |
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| Title: Re: Prostitution of Holy Things |
12 Apr 2007 10:13:24 AM |
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On Thu, 12 Apr 2007 10:46:53 -0400, wrote:
Lofty words indeed, coming from you, Gaius, however:
Your exaltations of 'yourself' are an open invitation to disaster.
You're tending to flatly ignore the fact that God reserves special
treatment (which ain't that pleasant, either) for your kind.
You remind me of the Pharisee who boasted about 'not being like the
others' and how much better he imagined himself to be than they
were....
You need to STUDY the Bible more:
Rubs you like a burr under your saddle, doesn't it. ;-) "your
kind"? Sounds like a politician speaking to blacks saying, "you
people". ;-)
For those who are not aware of the evolution of my User ID, I shall
again give it, once more. I began simply as Disciple Gaius. A New
Testament "disciple" is a learner, a student. Nothing exalted there.
After I was taken to task for using the term "disciple" by someone who
knows nothing of holy scripture, I expanded it thus;
"The", the definite article, since to my knowledge I'm the only "More
Noble Disciple Gaius".
"More Noble", taken from Acts 17:11 where the Bereans who heard Paul's
preaching searched or examined the bible daily to see if it was so.
Because they were sincere in their desire to know the scripture and
test the doctrines, they were students in contrast to the rejectors of
Paul and the message previously. Hence those Bereans who study
scripture were termed "More Noble". Again, not exactly exalting here,
but it bugs those who disagree with me on doctrines! ;-)
"Gaius" is a name I took from 3rd John because John prayed that Gaius
be healthy and prosperous. That fit a need in my life at this time so
I liked it. Gaius was apparently known for a love of truth and trying
to live it. A laudable goal for any believer.
Most humbly I am:
The More Noble Disciple Gaius :-D
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Prostitution of Holy Things |
12 Apr 2007 12:18:02 PM |
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On Thu, 12 Apr 2007 15:13:24 GMT, (Disciple Gaius)
wrote:
Most humbly I am:
The More Noble Disciple Gaius :-D
In reality, there is NOTHING 'humble' about you.
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| User: "Bill M" |
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| Title: Re: Prostitution of Holy Things |
12 Apr 2007 09:14:40 AM |
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Why do religious persons try to impose a form of censorship? Why limit
peoples expressions of opinion?
Does this shake your faith?
"Disciple Gaius" <Gaius@inbox.com> wrote in message
news:461d740d.5783155@news.east.cox.net...
Matt. 7:6 "Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast
your pearls before the swine, lest haply they trample them under their
feet, and turn and rend you."
From the JFB: "Prostitution of Holy Things
The opposite extreme to that of censoriousness is here condemned --
want of discrimination of character.
'Give not that which is holy unto the dogs' -- savage or snarling
haters of truth and righteousness.
'neither cast ye your pearls before swine' -- the impure or coarse,
who are incapable of appreciating the priceless jewels of
Christianity. In the East, dogs are wilder and more gregarious, and,
feeding on carrion and garbage, are coarser and fiercer than the same
animals in the West. Dogs and swine, besides being ceremonially
unclean, were peculiarly repulsive to the Jews, and indeed to the
ancients generally.
'lest they trample them under their feet' -- as swine do.
'and turn again and rend you' -- as dogs do. Religion is brought into
contempt, and its professors insulted, when it is forced upon those
who cannot value it and will not have it. But while the
indiscriminately zealous have need of this caution, let us be on our
guard against too readily setting our neighbors down as dogs and
swine, and excusing ourselves from endeavoring to do them good on this
poor plea.
From the Geneva Bible notes:
The stiff-necked and stubborn enemies of the gospel are unworthy to
have it preached unto them. (a) A pearl is known among the Greeks for
its oriental brightness: and a pearl was in ancient times greatly
valued by the Latins: for a pearl that Cleopatra had was valued at two
hundred and fifty thousand crowns: and the word is now borrowed from
that, to signify the most precious heavenly doctrine.
Posted by The More Noble Disciple Gaius
.
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| User: "Noname" |
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| Title: Re: Prostitution of Holy Things |
12 Apr 2007 10:53:54 AM |
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"Bill M" <wmech@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:O8rTh.9758$qB4.3824@bignews3.bellsouth.net...
Why do religious persons try to impose a form of censorship? Why limit
peoples expressions of opinion?
How would religious people ago about trying to impose censorship. Ironically
it is the other way around.
Does this shake your faith?
You missed the point! Christians are supposed to go into to the world
and preach the gospel. But are forbidden to *force* their pearl of great
value upon swine who have no appreciation for pearls. Swine would
trample the pearls under their feet.
"Disciple Gaius" <Gaius@inbox.com> wrote in message
news:461d740d.5783155@news.east.cox.net...
Matt. 7:6 "Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast
your pearls before the swine, lest haply they trample them under their
feet, and turn and rend you."
From the JFB: "Prostitution of Holy Things
The opposite extreme to that of censoriousness is here condemned --
want of discrimination of character.
'Give not that which is holy unto the dogs' -- savage or snarling
haters of truth and righteousness.
'neither cast ye your pearls before swine' -- the impure or coarse,
who are incapable of appreciating the priceless jewels of
Christianity. In the East, dogs are wilder and more gregarious, and,
feeding on carrion and garbage, are coarser and fiercer than the same
animals in the West. Dogs and swine, besides being ceremonially
unclean, were peculiarly repulsive to the Jews, and indeed to the
ancients generally.
'lest they trample them under their feet' -- as swine do.
'and turn again and rend you' -- as dogs do. Religion is brought into
contempt, and its professors insulted, when it is forced upon those
who cannot value it and will not have it. But while the
indiscriminately zealous have need of this caution, let us be on our
guard against too readily setting our neighbors down as dogs and
swine, and excusing ourselves from endeavoring to do them good on this
poor plea.
From the Geneva Bible notes:
The stiff-necked and stubborn enemies of the gospel are unworthy to
have it preached unto them. (a) A pearl is known among the Greeks for
its oriental brightness: and a pearl was in ancient times greatly
valued by the Latins: for a pearl that Cleopatra had was valued at two
hundred and fifty thousand crowns: and the word is now borrowed from
that, to signify the most precious heavenly doctrine.
Posted by The More Noble Disciple Gaius
.
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| User: "Disciple Gaius" |
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| Title: Re: Prostitution of Holy Things |
12 Apr 2007 09:42:54 AM |
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On Thu, 12 Apr 2007 10:14:40 -0400, "Bill M" <wmech@bellsouth.net>
wrote:
Why do religious persons try to impose a form of censorship? Why limit
peoples expressions of opinion?
Does this shake your faith?
That is the good thing about you guys running off at the mouth. You
expose how stupid you truly are. The word "censoriousness" in the JFB
Commentary below has NOTHING to do with censorship of anyone's
opinion. Censoriousness means faultfinding or carping, as the previous
verses discuss.
"Disciple Gaius" <Gaius@inbox.com> wrote in message
news:461d740d.5783155@news.east.cox.net...
Matt. 7:6 "Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast
your pearls before the swine, lest haply they trample them under their
feet, and turn and rend you."
From the JFB: "Prostitution of Holy Things
The opposite extreme to that of censoriousness is here condemned --
want of discrimination of character.
The More Noble Disciple Gaius
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