| Topic: |
Religions > Bible |
| User: |
"Bill M" |
| Date: |
20 Jan 2007 10:53:59 AM |
| Object: |
QUESTIONS FOR THEISTS |
Some questions for theists.
1.. Why do billions of honest non-delusional people never see or hear from
their God?
2.. If there is a real God, why does he permit the majority of his
creations to be deceived by hundreds of false Gods?
3.. If there is a loving God creator, why did he create such a brutal and
defective world with birth defects, wars and diseases?
4.. If a Devil has created all the defects and punishments of the real
world, why does a loving God permit this mistreatment of his creations?
5.. Who, why and what created Devils that enjoy misleading and punishing
God creations???
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| User: "Pastor Frank" |
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| Title: Re: QUESTIONS FOR THEISTS |
21 Jan 2007 08:27:26 AM |
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"Bill M" <wmech@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:zOrsh.246$jA.126@bignews1.bellsouth.net...
Some questions for theists.
1.. Why do billions of honest non-delusional people never see or hear
from their God?
2.. If there is a real God, why does he permit the majority of his
creations to be deceived by hundreds of false Gods?
3.. If there is a loving God creator, why did he create such a brutal and
defective world with birth defects, wars and diseases?
4.. If a Devil has created all the defects and punishments of the real
world, why does a loving God permit this mistreatment of his creations?
5.. Who, why and what created Devils that enjoy misleading and punishing
God creations???
We did hear from God, who came personally in the flesh of Jesus Christ,
and we promptly nailed Him to a cross. Atheists are just awaiting for Him to
come again, so they can kill Him all over again.
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
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| User: "Bill M" |
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| Title: Re: QUESTIONS FOR THEISTS |
21 Jan 2007 05:19:04 PM |
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"Pastor Frank" <PF@christfirst.edu> wrote in message
news:45b3be58$0$24421$88260bb3@free.teranews.com...
"Bill M" <wmech@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:zOrsh.246$jA.126@bignews1.bellsouth.net...
Some questions for theists.
1.. Why do billions of honest non-delusional people never see or hear
from their God?
2.. If there is a real God, why does he permit the majority of his
creations to be deceived by hundreds of false Gods?
3.. If there is a loving God creator, why did he create such a brutal
and defective world with birth defects, wars and diseases?
4.. If a Devil has created all the defects and punishments of the real
world, why does a loving God permit this mistreatment of his creations?
5.. Who, why and what created Devils that enjoy misleading and punishing
God creations???
We did hear from God, who came personally in the flesh of Jesus Christ,
and we promptly nailed Him to a cross. Atheists are just awaiting for Him
to come again, so they can kill Him all over again.
Only in your "delusional opinion"!
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| User: "Steve O" |
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| Title: Re: QUESTIONS FOR THEISTS |
21 Jan 2007 03:53:09 PM |
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"Pastor Frank" <PF@christfirst.edu> wrote in message
news:45b3be58$0$24421$88260bb3@free.teranews.com...
"Bill M" <wmech@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:zOrsh.246$jA.126@bignews1.bellsouth.net...
Some questions for theists.
1.. Why do billions of honest non-delusional people never see or hear
from their God?
2.. If there is a real God, why does he permit the majority of his
creations to be deceived by hundreds of false Gods?
3.. If there is a loving God creator, why did he create such a brutal
and defective world with birth defects, wars and diseases?
4.. If a Devil has created all the defects and punishments of the real
world, why does a loving God permit this mistreatment of his creations?
5.. Who, why and what created Devils that enjoy misleading and punishing
God creations???
We did hear from God, who came personally in the flesh of Jesus Christ,
and we promptly nailed Him to a cross. Atheists are just awaiting for Him
to come again, so they can kill Him all over again.
Oh purleeeeeze get a clue, will ya?
--
Steve O
a.a. #2240 (Apatheist Chapter)
B.A.A.W.A.
"Faith doesn't move mountains - it levels buildings"
"The Universe isn't about us." - Carl Sagan
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| User: "Richo" |
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| Title: Re: QUESTIONS FOR THEISTS |
21 Jan 2007 08:52:25 PM |
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Pastor Frank wrote:
"Bill M" <wmech@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:zOrsh.246$jA.126@bignews1.bellsouth.net...
Some questions for theists.
1.. Why do billions of honest non-delusional people never see or hear
from their God?
2.. If there is a real God, why does he permit the majority of his
creations to be deceived by hundreds of false Gods?
3.. If there is a loving God creator, why did he create such a brutal and
defective world with birth defects, wars and diseases?
4.. If a Devil has created all the defects and punishments of the real
world, why does a loving God permit this mistreatment of his creations?
5.. Who, why and what created Devils that enjoy misleading and punishing
God creations???
We did hear from God, who came personally in the flesh of Jesus Christ,
and we promptly nailed Him to a cross. Atheists are just awaiting for Him to
come again, so they can kill Him all over again.
Theists killed Jesus (if he existed) - He was a Jew, he was executed
by Romans who had many gods at the urging of Jews with their "One True
God".
If some chap tells me he is God or the son of God it doenst bother me
too much - blaspheme isnt a crime if you are an atheist - it's a non
event.
Mark.
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| User: "misanthropic_curmudgeon" |
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| Title: Re: QUESTIONS FOR THEISTS |
22 Jan 2007 05:53:17 PM |
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Pastor Frank wrote:
We did hear from God, who came personally in the flesh of Jesus Christ,
and we promptly nailed Him to a cross. Atheists are just awaiting for Him to
come again, so they can kill Him all over again.
I feel sorry for your flock, Pastor Frank, if that is the level of
'teaching' and 'guidance' you offer.
An athiest who was waiting for Jesus[TM] would not be an athiest,
because an athiest does not beleive Jesus[TM] existed/exists.
By very definition, anybody waiting for Jesus[TM] can not be an athiest.
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| User: "Warhol" |
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| Title: Re: QUESTIONS FOR THEISTS |
23 Jan 2007 04:10:48 PM |
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Because you dont pay Temple tribute... Zacca.
Bill M wrote:
Some questions for theists.
1.. Why do billions of honest non-delusional people never see or hear from
their God?
2.. If there is a real God, why does he permit the majority of his
creations to be deceived by hundreds of false Gods?
3.. If there is a loving God creator, why did he create such a brutal and
defective world with birth defects, wars and diseases?
4.. If a Devil has created all the defects and punishments of the real
world, why does a loving God permit this mistreatment of his creations?
5.. Who, why and what created Devils that enjoy misleading and punishing
God creations???
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| User: "Heywood Jablomi" |
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| Title: Re: QUESTIONS FOR THEISTS |
20 Jan 2007 12:04:10 PM |
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Bill M <wmech@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
<zOrsh.246$jA.126@bignews1.bellsouth.net>
Some questions for theists.
1.. Why do billions of honest non-delusional people never see or hear from
their God?
2.. If there is a real God, why does he permit the majority of his
creations to be deceived by hundreds of false Gods?
3.. If there is a loving God creator, why did he create such a brutal and
defective world with birth defects, wars and diseases?
4.. If a Devil has created all the defects and punishments of the real
world, why does a loving God permit this mistreatment of his creations?
5.. Who, why and what created Devils that enjoy misleading and punishing
God creations???
All good questions, none of which will get a serious answer from a single
theist.
--
If I was in charge of the universe, St Jude's
Hospital for Children would not need to exist
[ Followup-To: alt.bible ]
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| User: "Pangur Ban" |
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| Title: Re: QUESTIONS FOR THEISTS |
22 Jan 2007 07:31:29 AM |
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Bill M expressed precisely :
Some questions for theists.
I am in the process of examining my beliefs as a recent thread on here
has raised a - well, not a - but some questions. However, I am still a
theist until I complete that process. Therefore, I am going to answer
the four questions as a theist.
1.. Why do billions of honest non-delusional people never see or hear
from their God?
How to you know they do not? Have you done a survey of all of them?
Many theists believe they receive messages/answers from their
deity/deities. I personally don't - well, after the one experience
which led me to theism.
2.. If there is a real God, why does he permit the majority of his
creations to be deceived by hundreds of false Gods?
My own personal belief (at present) is that there is only ONE deity -
all the other gods are what I call facets of the one. Facets which
humans at whatever time and place would accept. Umm, if an Indian
facet - Shiva, for example - appeared to an ancient Israeli.... well,
that just would not "work".
3.. If there is a loving God creator, why did he create such a brutal and
defective world with birth defects, wars and diseases?
Why assume a deity did? Birth defects are the result of faulty
replication of genes, wars are human created, and disease is a function
of life - germs and viruses developed in the same way humans and
turtles did... evolution.
4.. If a Devil has created all the defects and punishments of the real
world, why does a loving God permit this mistreatment of his creations?
Devils are a christian accretion - created by men so as to frighten and
control a credulous populous.... just as men added their own accretions
to the tenets presented to humankind.
5.. Who, why and what created Devils that enjoy misleading and punishing
God creations???
Men.
All of the above comments are from the present theist beliefs I
presently hold; they are subject to change. :-)
--
Pangur Ban - nonchristian theist
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: QUESTIONS FOR THEISTS |
21 Jan 2007 01:04:41 PM |
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Bill M wrote:
Some questions for theists.
1.. Why do billions of honest non-delusional people never see or hear from
their God?
If we were sure there is a God, we would all
be "goody two shoes". Who steals in front of cops?
2.. If there is a real God, why does he permit the majority of his
creations to be deceived by hundreds of false Gods?
We like to create our own "gods". i.e. idolatry
3.. If there is a loving God creator, why did he create such a brutal and
defective world with birth defects, wars and diseases?
The world was created Good, and he told
us not to eat of the fruit of good and evil. We
should have listened to God.
4.. If a Devil has created all the defects and punishments of the real
world, why does a loving God permit this mistreatment of his creations?
We agreed to it in adam.
e.g. If there is a hole in the
wall people will walk by it.
Just put up a sign saying
don't look in hole, and we
all look.
5.. Who, why and what created Devils that enjoy misleading and punishing
God creations???
They were created good, then they
did evil.
May I ask why atheists are so
obseesed with arguing with Christians?
Why don't you just eat, drink, and be
merry for tomorrow you die, unless
sadism turns you on?
Jim
Joh 14:21 - He that hath my commandments,
and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me:
and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father,
and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
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| User: "Carl" |
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| Title: Re: QUESTIONS FOR THEISTS |
22 Jan 2007 09:09:39 AM |
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wrote:
Bill M wrote:
Some questions for theists.
1.. Why do billions of honest non-delusional people never see or hear from
their God?
If we were sure there is a God, we would all
be "goody two shoes". Who steals in front of cops?
They (non-delusional) are not listening...
2.. If there is a real God, why does he permit the majority of his
creations to be deceived by hundreds of false Gods?
We like to create our own "gods". i.e. idolatry
Maya will be defeated in the end when Good is victorious over Evil.
3.. If there is a loving God creator, why did he create such a brutal and
defective world with birth defects, wars and diseases?
The world was created Good, and he told
us not to eat of the fruit of good and evil. We
should have listened to God.
Did the serpent lie? Moving on, I might agree the world was created
Good, if OT is still Scripture
for Episcopalians.
4.. If a Devil has created all the defects and punishments of the real
world, why does a loving God permit this mistreatment of his creations?
We agreed to it in adam.
e.g. If there is a hole in the
wall people will walk by it.
Just put up a sign saying
don't look in hole, and we
all look.
I agree that sin has a long chain.
5.. Who, why and what created Devils that enjoy misleading and punishing
God creations???
They were created good, then they
did evil.
OK.
May I ask why atheists are so
obseesed with arguing with Christians?
Why don't you just eat, drink, and be
merry for tomorrow you die, unless
sadism turns you on?
I don't understand atheists and their human spirit.
Jim
Joh 14:21 - He that hath my commandments,
and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me:
and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father,
and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
Jesus Christ - more talked about, more written about that any other -
man or woman - in history.
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| User: "Hank" |
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| Title: Re: QUESTIONS FOR THEISTS |
21 Jan 2007 01:21:39 PM |
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wrote:
Bill M wrote:
Some questions for theists.
1.. Why do billions of honest non-delusional people never see or hear from
their God?
May I add: Isn't this known as "begging the question"?
You haven't talked to very many people from BOTH sides have you?
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| User: "Bill M" |
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| Title: Re: QUESTIONS FOR THEISTS |
21 Jan 2007 02:09:35 PM |
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"Hank" <cookoojaboob@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1169407299.620376.247100@m58g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...
jwsheffield@satx.rr.com wrote:
Bill M wrote:
Some questions for theists.
1.. Why do billions of honest non-delusional people never see or hear
from
their God?
May I add: Isn't this known as "begging the question"?
No, its a simple question you quite apperently can't answer intelligently
and resort to dodgem!
You haven't talked to very many people from BOTH sides have you?
I have consulted with dozens of people on this subject and NON have provided
a logical answer except
"that no gods exists"!
What evidence do you have to support your opinion???
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| User: "PH" |
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| Title: Re: QUESTIONS FOR THEISTS |
21 Jan 2007 02:04:45 PM |
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Hank wrote:
jwsheffield@satx.rr.com wrote:
Bill M wrote:
Some questions for theists.
1.. Why do billions of honest non-delusional people never see or hear from
their God?
May I add: Isn't this known as "begging the question"?
You haven't talked to very many people from BOTH sides have you?
I have many questions too, but I don't know who to ask....so confused.
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| User: "misanthropic_curmudgeon" |
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| Title: Re: QUESTIONS FOR THEISTS |
21 Jan 2007 03:23:40 PM |
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wrote:
If we were sure there is a God, we would all
be "goody two shoes". Who steals in front of cops?
Other cops! :)
May I ask why atheists are so
obseesed with arguing with Christians?
Because many Christians are obsessed with teling athiests how to live
their life: their Bible[TM] tells them to!
Christians have evolved(!) from things like inqusisions and hereasy
laws to more subtle laws like telling us who we can marry, can live
with, have sex with, demanding aspects of their faith in public
buildings ....
When was the last time an Athiest come knocking at your dorr two-by-two
in a bad suit?
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| User: "elemtilas" |
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| Title: Re: QUESTIONS FOR THEISTS |
21 Jan 2007 10:46:34 PM |
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misanthropic_curmudgeon wrote:
jwsheffield@satx.rr.com wrote:
May I ask why atheists are so
obseesed with arguing with Christians?
Because many Christians are obsessed with teling athiests how to live
their life: their Bible[TM] tells them to!
Live and let live is the best resolution here. Prosletysation is not
the answer.
Christians have evolved(!) from things like inqusisions and hereasy
laws to more subtle laws like telling us who we can marry, can live
with, have sex with, demanding aspects of their faith in public
buildings ....
When was the last time an Athiest come knocking at your dorr two-by-two
in a bad suit?
To be honest with you, many of the above are more matters of culture
than actual religion. The majority culture in, for example the US, is
one where male+female marriage, and taboos against certain sexual
practices are the norm. We will have those laws that you don't like so
long as the majority practice that sort of culture and expect their
government to support it. If you want to ***** your neighbour's golden
retriever and marry your two sisters -- well, you need to go and find a
country where you'll be allowed to do that, cos this ain't that country
at this time.
It is true that Atheists have not really taken to active prosletysation
(a Good Thing!), but rather than ignore dingdong Christians that try to
come after you, too many Atheists feel that the appropriate response is
to act like a sixth grader hurling insults on the playground. That does
nothing for your side of the argument except inflame the issue.
Padraic
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| User: "misanthropic_curmudgeon" |
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| Title: Re: QUESTIONS FOR THEISTS |
22 Jan 2007 03:33:31 PM |
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elemtilas wrote:
Christians have evolved(!) from things like inqusisions and hereasy
laws to more subtle laws like telling us who we can marry, can live
with, have sex with, demanding aspects of their faith in public
buildings ....
When was the last time an Athiest come knocking at your door two-by-two
in a bad suit?
To be honest with you, many of the above are more matters of culture
than actual religion.
And it is interesting to note that the largest predictor of someones
faith is the faith of their parents: religion is a social construct.
The majority culture in, for example the US, is
one where male+female marriage, and taboos against certain sexual
practices are the norm.
Taboos that have been imposed subsequent to European settlement of the
continential US. Many people (and I suspect you) make the erroneous
assumption that these tabbos have been around for eons. I suggest some
reading about pre-Victorian Britan, most of Europe, and for good
measure the relationship in British culture beween such tabbos and
distance to the British homeland.
It is true that Atheists have not really taken to active prosletysation
(a Good Thing!),
Why, because of the negative effect it would have on the church and the
ignorant masses who tithe?
rather than ignore dingdong Christians that try to
come after you, too many Atheists feel that the appropriate response is
to act like a sixth grader hurling insults on the playground. That does
nothing for your side of the argument except inflame the issue.
I virtually never insult. I use scripture to so biblical
inconsisteincy (within a single chapter!) I ask questions to make my
point and sho further inconsisency, and I refuse to show reverence.
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| User: "Padraic Brown" |
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| Title: Re: QUESTIONS FOR THEISTS |
22 Jan 2007 08:08:07 PM |
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On 22 Jan 2007 13:33:31 -0800, "misanthropic_curmudgeon"
<misanthropiccurmudgeon@breastcancermail.com> wrote:
elemtilas wrote:
Christians have evolved(!) from things like inqusisions and hereasy
laws to more subtle laws like telling us who we can marry, can live
with, have sex with, demanding aspects of their faith in public
buildings ....
When was the last time an Athiest come knocking at your door two-by-two
in a bad suit?
To be honest with you, many of the above are more matters of culture
than actual religion.
And it is interesting to note that the largest predictor of someones
faith is the faith of their parents: religion is a social construct.
Is that a surprise to you?
The majority culture in, for example the US, is
one where male+female marriage, and taboos against certain sexual
practices are the norm.
Taboos that have been imposed subsequent to European settlement of the
continential US.
Before the Europeans came, and for a while after, there was no
"continental US" or any kind of US. Whatever morals existed among the
Natives don't apply to the US, except in so far as any minority may
try to convince the majority to accept its morals.
For example, the majority decided that (certain) drugs should be made
illegal. A minority said "hey, one of those is part of our religious
practice", and the majority said "OK, we'll let you have it". Doesn't
always work. Another minority said "hey, we espouse polygamy" and the
majority said "no, sir, not in this country!"
Many people (and I suspect you) make the erroneous
assumption that these tabbos have been around for eons.
Actually, no. The particular set of morals you chose to discuss above
are pretty solid Christian morals. They wouldn't have necessarily
applied to pre-contact Natives. No morals have been around for eons.
I suggest some
reading about pre-Victorian Britan, most of Europe, and for good
measure the relationship in British culture beween such tabbos and
distance to the British homeland.
All are very interesting, but of little import to the discussion. It
does not matter what was going on in ancient Europe or far away in
Africa. If you're complaining about Christians and their "subtle
laws", that's here (in the US) and now (early 21st century). Sure it
has roots in earlier iterations of American culture and all the way
back through generations of European cultures.
It is true that Atheists have not really taken to active prosletysation
(a Good Thing!),
Why, because of the negative effect it would have on the church and the
ignorant masses who tithe?
Prosletysation is bad manners, whether it's Christians, Atheists or
Mormons doing it. Let people come to their own conclusions based on
their own reason and study. If some are convinced of faith, so be it;
if others are convinced of atheism, so be that as well.
rather than ignore dingdong Christians that try to
come after you, too many Atheists feel that the appropriate response is
to act like a sixth grader hurling insults on the playground. That does
nothing for your side of the argument except inflame the issue.
I virtually never insult.
I don't as a general rule, either. One reason why we're still talking.
Insults will get neither side anywhere.
I use scripture to so biblical
inconsisteincy (within a single chapter!) I ask questions to make my
point and sho further inconsisency, and I refuse to show reverence.
I don't ask for your reverence. I ask for your civility and will give
you mine. I don't fear biblical inconsistency or any kind of
incoonsistency in faith; it is a symptom of the literary form and what
passed for intellectual rigor at the time. As an atheist and a theist,
I understand that you and I will not agree on much here in
alt.religion (or wherever it is you're reading this). I'm not your
typical theist either -- I tend to agree more with Atheists than they
tend to realise or would care to admit (when they haven't pegged me as
another sappy, deluded Christian missionary type).
Padraic
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
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| User: "misanthropic_curmudgeon" |
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| Title: Re: QUESTIONS FOR THEISTS |
23 Jan 2007 02:53:29 PM |
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Padraic Brown wrote:
And it is interesting to note that the largest predictor of someones
faith is the faith of their parents: religion is a social construct.
Is that a surprise to you?
Not partuicularly, given that religion is a artifical social construct,
and evolution as equiped (vulnerable) children to mimic their parents
as a survival mechanism: if the parents are deluded the children
probably will be too.
The majority culture in, for example the US, is
one where male+female marriage, and taboos against certain sexual
practices are the norm.
Taboos that have been imposed subsequent to European settlement of the
continential US.
Before the Europeans came, and for a while after, there was no
"continental US"
Then please explainn what that big hunk of dirt is?
Whatever morals existed among the
Natives don't apply to the US,
Because of the genocidal campaigns waged by religious pilgrams.
except in so far as any minority may
try to convince the majority to accept its morals.
So when your minority imposes its will, that is OK, but when another
minority tries to, its a bad thing?
For example, the majority decided that (certain) drugs should be made
illegal.
You seem unaware of politics and legislation in democracies:
legislation is not passed by the majority: it is drafted by agents of
the state and voted on by representives of the state whose mandate from
the voters (majority)may be several years old. This is not a manner of
semantics - one have impose legislation on a populace by co-opting 51%
of the representive legislature, and even than that when the
legislature is party-driven and representives tow the party line.
Many people (and I suspect you) make the erroneous
assumption that these tabbos have been around for eons.
Actually, no. The particular set of morals you chose to discuss above
are pretty solid Christian morals.
Oh so only 1970-odd years then? In a small section of the world - out
of the 10,000 years or so that modern man has existed.
Lets not count the numerous Popes who adulterised, the barbarity of
pre-Victorian monarchs and heads of the church, the .....
No morals have been around for eons.
Why?
I suggest some
reading about pre-Victorian Britan, most of Europe, and for good
measure the relationship in British culture beween such tabbos and
distance to the British homeland.
All are very interesting, but of little import to the discussion.
Wrong: I am pointing out that the Christain morals you refer to are
attributed to the likes of (in the US) puritan sects and (outside of
the US) Victorian morals derived from a mourning queen and her
influence over her reverent people.
It
does not matter what was going on in ancient Europe or far away in
Africa. If you're complaining about Christians and their "subtle
laws", that's here (in the US) and now (early 21st century).
Newsflash: Christains exist outsde the USA
Prosletysation is bad manners, whether it's Christians, Atheists or
Mormons doing it. Let people come to their own conclusions based on
their own reason and study.
The nobilty of this line is thwarted by Christian treatment of heretics
both in ancient times and current.
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| User: "Padraic Brown" |
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| Title: Re: QUESTIONS FOR THEISTS |
23 Jan 2007 09:05:46 PM |
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On 23 Jan 2007 12:53:29 -0800, "misanthropic_curmudgeon"
<misanthropiccurmudgeon@breastcancermail.com> wrote:
Padraic Brown wrote:
And it is interesting to note that the largest predictor of someones
faith is the faith of their parents: religion is a social construct.
Is that a surprise to you?
Not partuicularly, given that religion is a artifical social construct,
and evolution as equiped (vulnerable) children to mimic their parents
as a survival mechanism: if the parents are deluded the children
probably will be too.
The majority culture in, for example the US, is
one where male+female marriage, and taboos against certain sexual
practices are the norm.
Taboos that have been imposed subsequent to European settlement of the
continential US.
Before the Europeans came, and for a while after, there was no
"continental US"
Then please explainn what that big hunk of dirt is?
It's a hunk of dirt. I'm pretty sure it's attached to the mantle
somewhere. The point is, to complain that the present laws are based
on taboos brought here by later settlers and "imposed" upon peoples
who may or may not have shared those morals is a bit pointless. The
laws are in force now and are desired by the majority of Americans,
regardless of whatever morals may have been in effect on this
continent 5000 years ago.
Whatever morals existed among the
Natives don't apply to the US,
Because of the genocidal campaigns waged by religious pilgrams.
People who saw a good opportunity for business and the amassing of
hitherto unimagined wealth and power, at the expence of those who
could not sufficiently fit in or who were inconveniently in the way.
except in so far as any minority may
try to convince the majority to accept its morals.
So when your minority imposes its will, that is OK, but when another
minority tries to, its a bad thing?
I never said anything about "imposition". It is the right of a
minority to try and convince the majority that its own morals have a
place and should be respected. Sometimes the majority agrees,
sometimes they don't.
For example, the majority decided that (certain) drugs should be made
illegal.
You seem unaware of politics and legislation in democracies:
legislation is not passed by the majority: it is drafted by agents of
the state and voted on by representives of the state whose mandate from
the voters (majority)may be several years old.
The example may be simplistic, but it is quite valid. You don't get
"agents of the state" or "representatives" without there being some
kind of support from a large segment of the population.
This is not a manner of
semantics - one have impose legislation on a populace by co-opting 51%
of the representive legislature, and even than that when the
legislature is party-driven and representives tow the party line.
Many people (and I suspect you) make the erroneous
assumption that these tabbos have been around for eons.
Actually, no. The particular set of morals you chose to discuss above
are pretty solid Christian morals.
Oh so only 1970-odd years then?
Some of them, yes. Others are much older. You happened to list a small
set of moral behaviours that are typical of Christian morality.
In a small section of the world - out
of the 10,000 years or so that modern man has existed.
Lets not count the numerous Popes who adulterised, the barbarity of
pre-Victorian monarchs and heads of the church, the .....
List all the immorality you like. I don't care. The matter at hand was
a couple of morality based laws in the US.
No morals have been around for eons.
Why?
Well, an eon is a billion years, right? There've only been people for
what, a half a million or so? What's so hard to understand about that?
;)
I suggest some
reading about pre-Victorian Britan, most of Europe, and for good
measure the relationship in British culture beween such tabbos and
distance to the British homeland.
All are very interesting, but of little import to the discussion.
Wrong: I am pointing out that the Christain morals you refer to are
attributed to the likes of (in the US) puritan sects and (outside of
the US) Victorian morals derived from a mourning queen and her
influence over her reverent people.
It
does not matter what was going on in ancient Europe or far away in
Africa. If you're complaining about Christians and their "subtle
laws", that's here (in the US) and now (early 21st century).
Newsflash: Christains exist outsde the USA
True, but immaterial. We're talking about US laws.
Prosletysation is bad manners, whether it's Christians, Atheists or
Mormons doing it. Let people come to their own conclusions based on
their own reason and study.
The nobilty of this line is thwarted by Christian treatment of heretics
both in ancient times and current.
Like I've said any number of times, people in power have often abused
their authority, and have misused religion as a justification for
their violence.
Padraic
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
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| User: "Pastor Frank" |
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| Title: Re: QUESTIONS FOR THEISTS |
25 Jan 2007 01:10:08 PM |
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"Padraic Brown" <elemtilas@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:f9hdr2phfhqt9pltlcmahic75ilo77i514@4ax.com...
On 23 Jan 2007 12:53:29 -0800, "misanthropic_curmudgeon"
<misanthropiccurmudgeon@breastcancermail.com> wrote:
Padraic Brown wrote:
And it is interesting to note that the largest predictor of someones
faith is the faith of their parents: religion is a social construct.
Is that a surprise to you?
Not partuicularly, given that religion is a artifical social construct,
and evolution as equiped (vulnerable) children to mimic their parents
as a survival mechanism: if the parents are deluded the children
probably will be too.
You have to be a sexually incontinent atheist to love helter-skelter
morality, where anything goes.
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
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| User: "Padraic Brown" |
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| Title: Re: QUESTIONS FOR THEISTS |
26 Jan 2007 11:18:14 PM |
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On Fri, 26 Jan 2007 03:10:08 +0800, "Pastor Frank"
<PF@christfirst.edu> wrote:
"Padraic Brown" <elemtilas@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:f9hdr2phfhqt9pltlcmahic75ilo77i514@4ax.com...
On 23 Jan 2007 12:53:29 -0800, "misanthropic_curmudgeon"
<misanthropiccurmudgeon@breastcancermail.com> wrote:
Padraic Brown wrote:
And it is interesting to note that the largest predictor of someones
faith is the faith of their parents: religion is a social construct.
Is that a surprise to you?
Not partuicularly, given that religion is a artifical social construct,
and evolution as equiped (vulnerable) children to mimic their parents
as a survival mechanism: if the parents are deluded the children
probably will be too.
You have to be a sexually incontinent atheist to love helter-skelter
morality, where anything goes.
Dude, at least reply to the old crumudgeon that wrote the above!
Padraic
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
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| User: "Pastor Frank" |
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| Title: Re: QUESTIONS FOR THEISTS |
28 Jan 2007 03:59:40 AM |
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"Padraic Brown" <elemtilas@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:komlr2tuekjc59n78okgr3hgs0reh7bvo9@4ax.com...
On Fri, 26 Jan 2007 03:10:08 +0800, "Pastor Frank"
<PF@christfirst.edu> wrote:
"Padraic Brown" <elemtilas@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:f9hdr2phfhqt9pltlcmahic75ilo77i514@4ax.com...
On 23 Jan 2007 12:53:29 -0800, "misanthropic_curmudgeon"
<misanthropiccurmudgeon@breastcancermail.com> wrote:
Padraic Brown wrote:
And it is interesting to note that the largest predictor of someones
faith is the faith of their parents: religion is a social construct.
Is that a surprise to you?
Not partuicularly, given that religion is a artifical social construct,
and evolution as equiped (vulnerable) children to mimic their parents
as a survival mechanism: if the parents are deluded the children
probably will be too.
You have to be a sexually incontinent atheist to love helter-skelter
morality, where anything goes.
Dude, at least reply to the old crumudgeon that wrote the above!
Padraic
I thought I did, but where is the part of the post I answered?
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
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| User: "Don Kresch" |
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| Title: Re: QUESTIONS FOR THEISTS |
22 Jan 2007 08:16:28 AM |
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In alt.atheism On 21 Jan 2007 11:04:41 -0800,
let us all know that:
Bill M wrote:
Some questions for theists.
1.. Why do billions of honest non-delusional people never see or hear from
their God?
If we were sure there is a God, we would all
be "goody two shoes". Who steals in front of cops?
Several people, actually.
2.. If there is a real God, why does he permit the majority of his
creations to be deceived by hundreds of false Gods?
We like to create our own "gods". i.e. idolatry
Only in the minds of those who believe in idols.
3.. If there is a loving God creator, why did he create such a brutal and
defective world with birth defects, wars and diseases?
The world was created Good, and he told
us not to eat of the fruit of good and evil. We
should have listened to God.
...and never learned of good or evil. That would have been
dumb.
4.. If a Devil has created all the defects and punishments of the real
world, why does a loving God permit this mistreatment of his creations?
We agreed to it in adam.
We did? Prove it. No, you cannot use the bible. That's
circular reasoning.
5.. Who, why and what created Devils that enjoy misleading and punishing
God creations???
They were created good, then they
did evil.
How could they do evil?
May I ask why atheists are so
obseesed with arguing with Christians?
May I ask why xers are so obsessed with crossposting to
alt.atheism?
Don
---
aa #51, Knight of BAAWA, DNRC o-, Member of the [H]orde
Atheist Minister for St. Dogbert.
"No being is so important that he can usurp the rights of another"
Picard to Data/Graves "The Schizoid Man"
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Why evil? |
22 Jan 2007 12:28:55 PM |
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The world was created Good, and he told
us not to eat of the fruit of good and evil. We
should have listened to God.
...and never learned of good or evil.
That would have been dumb.
Good response. You have a good
insight into evil
Jim
Ge 3:5 - For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof,
then your eyes shall be opened,
and ye shall be as gods,
knowing good and evil.
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| User: "Bill M" |
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| Title: Re: Why evil? |
23 Jan 2007 04:08:55 PM |
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<jwsheffield@satx.rr.com> wrote in message
news:1169490535.770502.99620@38g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
The world was created Good, and he told
us not to eat of the fruit of good and evil. We
should have listened to God.
...and never learned of good or evil.
That would have been dumb.
Good response. You have a good
insight into evil
Jim
Ge 3:5 - For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof,
then your eyes shall be opened,
and ye shall be as gods,
knowing good and evil.
Your god must be evil and mean to create evil!
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| User: "Pastor Frank" |
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| Title: Re: Why evil? |
25 Jan 2007 12:26:43 PM |
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"Bill M" <wmech@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:iDvth.1913$fC2.1741@bignews4.bellsouth.net...
<jwsheffield@satx.rr.com> wrote in message
news:1169490535.770502.99620@38g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
The world was created Good, and he told
us not to eat of the fruit of good and evil. We
should have listened to God.
...and never learned of good or evil.
That would have been dumb.
Good response. You have a good
insight into evil
Jim
Ge 3:5 - For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof,
then your eyes shall be opened,
and ye shall be as gods,
knowing good and evil.
Your god must be evil and mean to create evil!
Are you saying YOUR god is not "evil" and doesn't "mean to create evil"?
Tell us about YOUR god.
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Why evil? |
23 Jan 2007 04:44:25 PM |
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Bill M wrote:
<jwsheffield@satx.rr.com> wrote in message
news:1169490535.770502.99620@38g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
The world was created Good, and he told
us not to eat of the fruit of good and evil. We
should have listened to God.
...and never learned of good or evil.
That would have been dumb.
Good response. You have a good
insight into evil
Jim
Ge 3:5 - For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof,
then your eyes shall be opened,
and ye shall be as gods,
knowing good and evil.
Your god must be evil and mean to create evil!
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| User: "James" |
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| Title: Re: Why evil? |
20 Mar 2007 12:15:02 PM |
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jwsheffield@satx.rr.com
Re: Why evil?
The world was created Good, and he told
us not to eat of the fruit of good and evil. We
should have listened to God.
...and never learned of good or evil.
That would have been dumb.
Good response. You have a good
insight into evil
Jim
Ge 3:5 - For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof,
then your eyes shall be opened,
and ye shall be as gods,
knowing good and evil.
Hello,
Yet the Bible clearly shows that Adam and Eve knew "evil" and what was
"good". For example, when Eve was tempted by the serpent (Satan) she
told it:
"2. The woman said to the serpent, "We may eat fruit from the trees
in the garden,
3. but God did say, `You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in
the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will
die.'" " (Ge 3:2,3; NIV)
Clearly she was warned by God what was a "bad" thing to do, and its
consequences. So if Adam and Eve knew what was good and bad, what is
the real meaning of Ge 2:5? More on this if you are interested.
Sincerely, James
**If you wish to have a discussion with me, please use email since I
do not follow ng threads
***********************************
Want a FREE home Bible study?
Have Jehovah's Witnesses questions?
Go to the authorized source:
http://www.watchtower.org
***********************************
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| User: "SheBlewHimDidYouBlowHim" |
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| Title: Re: Why evil? |
22 Mar 2007 06:14:37 PM |
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Clearly she was warned by God what was a "bad" thing to do, and its
consequences. So if Adam and Eve knew what was good and bad, what is
the real meaning of Ge 2:5? More on this if you are interested.
Sincerely, James
and the ALL-LOVING jackass damned manking to hell for ALL FUCKING ETERNITY
because someone committed the ultimate fucking crime of eating some fruit
from his ALMIGHTY PRECIOUS TREE
death to the ***** christian god
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Why evil? |
21 Mar 2007 10:13:23 AM |
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On Mar 20, 12:15 pm, James <bir...@allvantage.com> wrote:
jwsheffi...@satx.rr.com
Re: Why evil?
The world was created Good, and he told
us not to eat of the fruit of good and evil. We
should have listened to God.
...and never learned of good or evil.
That would have been dumb.
Good response. You have a good
insight into evil
Jim
Ge 3:5 - For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof,
then your eyes shall be opened,
and ye shall be as gods,
knowing good and evil.
Hello,
Yet the Bible clearly shows that Adam and Eve knew "evil" and what was
"good". For example, when Eve was tempted by the serpent (Satan) she
told it:
No, the Bible clearly shows they didn't
Ge 2:17 - But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou
shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou
shalt surely die.
Notice it calls the tree the KNOWLEDGE of
good and evil
Ge 3:5 - [ In Context | Read Chapter | Discuss this Verse ]
"2. The woman said to the serpent, "We may eat fruit from the trees
in the garden,
3. but God did say, `You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in
the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will
die.'" " (Ge 3:2,3; NIV)
Clearly she was warned by God what was a "bad" thing to do, and its
consequences. So if Adam and Eve knew what was good and bad, what is
the real meaning of Ge 2:5? More on this if you are interested.
I noticed you didn't quote Gen 2:17
Qoting a verse that doesn't address the
issue is not nice.
They had a choice to believe God or not.
All we NEED to know is Scripture and
sound reason(i.e. logos)
1Ti 6:20 - O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust,
avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science(i.e.
gnosis or knowledge)
falsely so called:
Post your ideas openly and
let light shine on them.
Jim
Zep 3:5 - The just LORD is in the midst thereof; he will not do
iniquity: every morning doth he bring his judgment to light, he
faileth not; but the unjust knoweth no shame.
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