Religions > Bible > Randy Clark (Word of Faith Leader) sends CERM a E-mail
| Topic: |
Religions > Bible |
| User: |
"" |
| Date: |
23 Dec 2006 11:28:49 PM |
| Object: |
Randy Clark (Word of Faith Leader) sends CERM a E-mail |
I will reply to this guy and rebut his claims.
But in all honesty he could use a copy of Charismatic Chaos.
I should add Clark to this page.
http://www.cerm.info/false_teachers.htm
-------
Name = Randy Clark
URL =
Comments = Dear John,
I was saddened by your newspaper article pertaining to Bill Johnson. (I
just read it on the web) Bill is a profound biblical teacher, more
faithful to the text than most of my professors at a Baptist University
and
Southern Baptist Theological Seminary Louisville, Ky.
In the same way one can take a text out of context so can a person
sound bite or quote a teacher today out of context causing them to
appear
unorthodox.
My questions for you are: 1. Do you realize the school you attended is
named after the founder of the CMA, and that his statements about faith
and healing are as radical or more radical than Bill's statements?
2. Do you realize that your own pre-trib view of eschatology wasn't
heard of until 1830 and is based upon a revelation a 16 year old
teenage
girl had in Scotland, and that it is not the same view that the early
church had which was pre-melliniar post trib?
3. Did you know that the research of McConnell's book, Another Gospel
was historically inaccurate and the assumption that Kenyon was
influenced by Metaphysical thought also is historically inaccurate?
See Joe
McIntyre's book E.W. Kenyon: the man and his message the true story.
Did
you know that the positive confession movement was born out of the
holiness movement, and the understanding of George Mueller regarding
faith
and prayer, not the new thought movement, and that Hannagraaph whose
research is also somewhat based upon McConnell's is therefore also
historically inaccurate as well as internally inconsistent?
4. Did you know that the Cessationist position you hold to is
logically inconsistent, violates B.B.Warfieds's own hermeneutical
principles,
and was rooted in issues of the reformation that caused Calvin and
Luther to become cessationist in opposition to the arguments of the
Roman
Catholics and the Left Wing of the Reformation the Anabaptist? See Jon
Ruthven's book, On the Cessation of the Charismata: A Protestant
Polemic
on Post-biblical miracles
5. Did you know that the gospel of the Kingdom is the gospel of Jesus
and Paul and includes deliverance and healing as well as forgiveness,
and that if we are not including all aspects, what we are preaching is
true, but not all the truth? Bill is a faithful preacher of the gospel
of the Kingdom.
6. I was not surprised that Bill thanked you for comparing him with
Benny Hinn, but that is because Bill does not cut others down, even
those
with whom he does not agree. My personal opinioin is that I would not
want to get my theology from Benny Hinn, and neither would I want to
learn how to co-operate with the Holy Spirit or co-labor with Jesus
from
almost all of my seminary professors of theology. They know about as
much of co-laboring with Christ via the Spirit as Benny does about
Systematic Theology.
7. Did you know that a weakness of Reformational Theology of the 16th
century was its narrow focus primarily upon salvation and thus Jesus'
role in relationship to salvation, soteriology? But, they had little
concern for the message of the Kingdom or the continued ministry of
Jesus
after the Cross, little emphasis upon the continued ministry of Jesus
at the Father's right hand, or the ministry of the Holy Spirit beyond
His role in salvation. They had little understanding of the ministry
of
the Holy Spirit or of Jesus as the Baptizer in the Holy Spirit and the
Administrator of the will of the Son in his Church today.
8. It is obvious that you do not really know Bill or what he preaches.
I have listened to him for hours and believe his view of Jesus and the
implications of the kenotic passage of Philippians 2 to be consistent
with my Systematic Theology Professor at Southern Baptist Seminary in
Louisville, Ky, Dr. Dale Moody. Also, if you listen closely to Bill he
does not deny either the humanity or deity of Jesus.
9. The operation of the gifts of the Spirit is one of the most
tangible ways God makes his love known in a personal way today. And,
it isn't
the gifts vindicate the person speaking anyway, they vindicate the
message of the Kingdom. I seldom ever pray for someone to receive a
baptism of power without also praying they receive a baptism of love.
By the
way 1 Cor. 13 was never meant to be an alternative for the operation of
the gifts, the better way is the operation of the gifts motivated from
love and expressed in love.
10. I encourage you to read my book, "There Is More!" prior to anymore
newspaper articles. I believe it lays the biblical foundations for a
non-cessationist form of Christianity, and it also vindicates the move
of God in the mid 90's by the fruit that has come from that move.
I pray and hope that as you learn about the Faith-Cure movement among
evangelical leaders such as A.J. Gordon - Baptist, A.B. Simpson -
Presbyterian and founder of CMA, D.L. Moody, R.A. Torrey (first
president of
Moody Bible Institute), A. T. Pierson - Presbyterian, Andrew Murray -
Dutch Reformed, and the influence upon the understanding of faith from
George Mueller upon the Faith-Cure movment you will be shocked. This
movement of the last quarter century of the19th century was what
influenced the early Pentecostal movement and the Word of Faith
Movement today,
not New Thought from Emerson College.
For years I had a mean spirit regarding the Word of Faith movement, but
my spirit changed in 1993 towards the people involved. I still
believed it was unbalanced until a few years ago. ONly after talking
with a
leader in the movement did I realize my anger was about the poor
pastoral
application of the message not the message itself which is based upon
believing the promises of God pertaining to healing. However, I still
would not consider myself a proponent of the Word of Faith as my camp.
I would more accuartely fit in the "Third Wave Evangelical in some
ways, and in others ways the Pentecostal movement.
Finally, the view of Jesus' descent into hell is part of the earliest
creeds of the Church which your page on beliefs said you agreed with.
This view is not heretical, it was part of orthodoxy.
I wish you a long and fruitful ministry that reflects the ministry of
our Lord through His Spirit. As Paul said, We labor with all His
energy which works so mightily within us.
Randy Clark
Submit = Send
subject = Survey Results
REMOTE_HOST: xxxxxxxxxxx
.
|
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| User: "Rod" |
|
| Title: Re: Randy Clark (Word of Faith Leader) sends CERM a E-mail |
24 Dec 2006 09:04:00 AM |
|
|
You should add yourself to the list.........
Rod
<johnw_cerm@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1166938129.201600.152530@n51g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
I will reply to this guy and rebut his claims.
But in all honesty he could use a copy of Charismatic Chaos.
I should add Clark to this page.
http://www.cerm.info/false_teachers.htm
-------
Name = Randy Clark
URL =
Comments = Dear John,
I was saddened by your newspaper article pertaining to Bill Johnson. (I
just read it on the web) Bill is a profound biblical teacher, more
faithful to the text than most of my professors at a Baptist University
and
Southern Baptist Theological Seminary Louisville, Ky.
In the same way one can take a text out of context so can a person
sound bite or quote a teacher today out of context causing them to
appear
unorthodox.
My questions for you are: 1. Do you realize the school you attended is
named after the founder of the CMA, and that his statements about faith
and healing are as radical or more radical than Bill's statements?
2. Do you realize that your own pre-trib view of eschatology wasn't
heard of until 1830 and is based upon a revelation a 16 year old
teenage
girl had in Scotland, and that it is not the same view that the early
church had which was pre-melliniar post trib?
3. Did you know that the research of McConnell's book, Another Gospel
was historically inaccurate and the assumption that Kenyon was
influenced by Metaphysical thought also is historically inaccurate?
See Joe
McIntyre's book E.W. Kenyon: the man and his message the true story.
Did
you know that the positive confession movement was born out of the
holiness movement, and the understanding of George Mueller regarding
faith
and prayer, not the new thought movement, and that Hannagraaph whose
research is also somewhat based upon McConnell's is therefore also
historically inaccurate as well as internally inconsistent?
4. Did you know that the Cessationist position you hold to is
logically inconsistent, violates B.B.Warfieds's own hermeneutical
principles,
and was rooted in issues of the reformation that caused Calvin and
Luther to become cessationist in opposition to the arguments of the
Roman
Catholics and the Left Wing of the Reformation the Anabaptist? See Jon
Ruthven's book, On the Cessation of the Charismata: A Protestant
Polemic
on Post-biblical miracles
5. Did you know that the gospel of the Kingdom is the gospel of Jesus
and Paul and includes deliverance and healing as well as forgiveness,
and that if we are not including all aspects, what we are preaching is
true, but not all the truth? Bill is a faithful preacher of the gospel
of the Kingdom.
6. I was not surprised that Bill thanked you for comparing him with
Benny Hinn, but that is because Bill does not cut others down, even
those
with whom he does not agree. My personal opinioin is that I would not
want to get my theology from Benny Hinn, and neither would I want to
learn how to co-operate with the Holy Spirit or co-labor with Jesus
from
almost all of my seminary professors of theology. They know about as
much of co-laboring with Christ via the Spirit as Benny does about
Systematic Theology.
7. Did you know that a weakness of Reformational Theology of the 16th
century was its narrow focus primarily upon salvation and thus Jesus'
role in relationship to salvation, soteriology? But, they had little
concern for the message of the Kingdom or the continued ministry of
Jesus
after the Cross, little emphasis upon the continued ministry of Jesus
at the Father's right hand, or the ministry of the Holy Spirit beyond
His role in salvation. They had little understanding of the ministry
of
the Holy Spirit or of Jesus as the Baptizer in the Holy Spirit and the
Administrator of the will of the Son in his Church today.
8. It is obvious that you do not really know Bill or what he preaches.
I have listened to him for hours and believe his view of Jesus and the
implications of the kenotic passage of Philippians 2 to be consistent
with my Systematic Theology Professor at Southern Baptist Seminary in
Louisville, Ky, Dr. Dale Moody. Also, if you listen closely to Bill he
does not deny either the humanity or deity of Jesus.
9. The operation of the gifts of the Spirit is one of the most
tangible ways God makes his love known in a personal way today. And,
it isn't
the gifts vindicate the person speaking anyway, they vindicate the
message of the Kingdom. I seldom ever pray for someone to receive a
baptism of power without also praying they receive a baptism of love.
By the
way 1 Cor. 13 was never meant to be an alternative for the operation of
the gifts, the better way is the operation of the gifts motivated from
love and expressed in love.
10. I encourage you to read my book, "There Is More!" prior to anymore
newspaper articles. I believe it lays the biblical foundations for a
non-cessationist form of Christianity, and it also vindicates the move
of God in the mid 90's by the fruit that has come from that move.
I pray and hope that as you learn about the Faith-Cure movement among
evangelical leaders such as A.J. Gordon - Baptist, A.B. Simpson -
Presbyterian and founder of CMA, D.L. Moody, R.A. Torrey (first
president of
Moody Bible Institute), A. T. Pierson - Presbyterian, Andrew Murray -
Dutch Reformed, and the influence upon the understanding of faith from
George Mueller upon the Faith-Cure movment you will be shocked. This
movement of the last quarter century of the19th century was what
influenced the early Pentecostal movement and the Word of Faith
Movement today,
not New Thought from Emerson College.
For years I had a mean spirit regarding the Word of Faith movement, but
my spirit changed in 1993 towards the people involved. I still
believed it was unbalanced until a few years ago. ONly after talking
with a
leader in the movement did I realize my anger was about the poor
pastoral
application of the message not the message itself which is based upon
believing the promises of God pertaining to healing. However, I still
would not consider myself a proponent of the Word of Faith as my camp.
I would more accuartely fit in the "Third Wave Evangelical in some
ways, and in others ways the Pentecostal movement.
Finally, the view of Jesus' descent into hell is part of the earliest
creeds of the Church which your page on beliefs said you agreed with.
This view is not heretical, it was part of orthodoxy.
I wish you a long and fruitful ministry that reflects the ministry of
our Lord through His Spirit. As Paul said, We labor with all His
energy which works so mightily within us.
Randy Clark
Submit = Send
subject = Survey Results
REMOTE_HOST: xxxxxxxxxxx
Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
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** SPEED ** RETENTION ** COMPLETION ** ANONYMITY **
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| User: "Incitatus" |
|
| Title: Re: Randy Clark (Word of Faith Leader) sends CERM a E-mail |
24 Dec 2006 05:35:18 PM |
|
|
In article <1166972759_23483@sp6iad.superfeed.net>, "Rod"
<freelance74601@yahoo.com> wrote:
You should add yourself to the list.........
Rod
or there is this list:
walnuts
peanuts
hazelnuts
macademia nuts
brazil nuts
pine nuts
beech nuts
John Wolf (ready cracked cermnuts)
lock nuts
wing nuts
.
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| User: "Rod" |
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| Title: Re: Randy Clark (Word of Faith Leader) sends CERM a E-mail |
24 Dec 2006 08:50:02 PM |
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Have a good christmas Phar Lap, and see you next year.
Rod
--
Website http://24.116.1.130/kc0oeb
Chatroom http://24.119.245.2
"Incitatus" <Senate@Rome.com> wrote in message
news:Senate-2512061035330001@192.168.0.2...
In article <1166972759_23483@sp6iad.superfeed.net>, "Rod"
<freelance74601@yahoo.com> wrote:
You should add yourself to the list.........
Rod
or there is this list:
walnuts
peanuts
hazelnuts
macademia nuts
brazil nuts
pine nuts
beech nuts
John Wolf (ready cracked cermnuts)
lock nuts
wing nuts
Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
----------------------------------------------------------
** SPEED ** RETENTION ** COMPLETION ** ANONYMITY **
----------------------------------------------------------
http://www.usenet.com
.
|
|
|
| User: "Incitatus" |
|
| Title: Re: Randy Clark (Word of Faith Leader) sends CERM a E-mail |
27 Dec 2006 05:37:16 AM |
|
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In article <1167015102_27361@sp6iad.superfeed.net>, "Rod"
<freelance74601@yahoo.com> wrote:
Have a good christmas Phar Lap, and see you next year.
Rod
You bet bro'
You too
.
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