RANDY'S OUTER SPACE LAKE OF FIRE!



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Topic: Religions > Bible
User: "Pastor Dave"
Date: 15 Jun 2006 09:17:09 AM
Object: RANDY'S OUTER SPACE LAKE OF FIRE!
Randy, know as "alt.bible", or "Pulpitfire",
in order to protect his doctrine, has just
made up, on the fly, trying to cover the
fact that I showed him a problem with
his man made doctrine, the idea that
the lake of fire must be somewhere out
in space. Take a look...
*******************************************************
On Sat, 13 May 2006 16:08:38 -0500, Pulpitfire
<altbible@gmail.com> spake thusly:

YOU believe that a literal, physical new heaven
and earth are set up.

YOU believe that this happens AFTER sinners
are judged.

YOU believe that the new earth is occupied
by believers, who now have physical, eternal
bodies.

YOU believe that a literal, physical, "New Jerusalem"
comes down onto this "new earth" AFTER this all
happens.

So I asked you, who are the sinners spoken of,
in Revelation 22:14-15, who are outside the
gates of the New Jerusalem, if all of the sinners
have been judged already and this "new earth"
has only believers on it?

They cannot be, as you said, "those who are ejected
by Christ into Hades, which shall at that time be
thrown into Hell", since that already have taken
place.

So if what you believe is true, then who are they
and where did they come from?


It says they are "without". This does not necessitate
they are leaning up against the outside of the gate doors,
and still in the new earth. Without simply shows they
are not in the city with those who believe, but are
"without" it, e.g. in the "lake of fire". The lake of fire
IS "without" (outside of, not in) the city.


That doesn't work. You are now trying to claim
that the lake of fire that existed BEFORE this
"new earth" is somewhere on this "new earth".

According TO YOUR OWN DOCTRINE, all sinners
are already gone and this new earth is made and
then the New Jerusalem comes down.

So no, there shouldn't be any sinners on earth,
anywhere. And before you respond with
something like, "God can do whatever He wants",
all that response would mean, is that you know
you can't show me what you said Biblically and
that you still refuse to give up your doctrine.
So don't bother going there.

And yes, this passage places them outside
THE GATES of the city, not just "somewhere
on earth, burning in a lake of fire". Nor does
it mention the lake of fire there, regarding
these people.

The fact is, if they were in the lake of fire, they'd
be gone, period and wouldn't be mentioned as
being specifically outside of the gates of the city.

The Greek word means "outside". It is saying that
they are outside of the gates of the city. That plants
them squarely on Earth, outside the gates of the
city. If it were "somewhere on earth, in the lake
of fire", then that's what it would say.

And you didn't bother to take into account v14.

Revelation 22:14-15

14) Blessed are they that do his commandments,
that THEY may have right to the tree of life, and
may ENTER IN through the gates into the city.
15) For without (outside) are dogs, and sorcerers,
and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters,
and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

Now it clearly shows the contrast between those
who can enter into the gates and those who must
remain outside of the gates and cannot enter into
the city.

So once again I ask, Where did these people come from,
since all sinners are supposedly gone already?


Who says they have to be on the new earth?

Because that's where the city is.

It simply says they are "without".

So it says that they are outside the gates,
because they're floating off into outer space
somewhere?
That is a weak response and you ignored
my rebuttal and just repeated what you
already said. (:

Amazing, when Revelation 19 says Christ
comes from "heaven", and that the armies
of heaven follow Him to the battle with the
"kings of the earth", you insist He is not on
earth.

Trying to change the subject again? What
does this have to do with what I asked?
Nothing. No matter what is under discussion,
you continually, in every post, try to change
the subject to Revelation 19, no matter what
is being discussed! And we both know it's
because you haven't been able to answer a
damn thing! (:
Furthermore, you are once again ADDING
AND CHANGING SCRIPTURE!!!
It does NOT say, "Christ comes from Heaven,
to Earth and battles the physical armies".
And are you not capable of understanding
that your invention of what Revelation 19
says, does not compare to the fact that the
word "EARTH" is actually IN THE VERSE
I referred to?!
And don't bother trying to argue Revelation 19.
I am not going to put up with you ONCE AGAIN
trying to change the subject, because you can't
answer the question and love your doctrine
over God's word!
Now we will assume that you believe in a lake
of fire that's floating around somewhere in
outer space and that that's what God meant
when He said, "outside the gates" of the city,
which according to you, is a physical city
ON EARTH.
Once again, Randy has changed his doctrine
ON THE FLY, to try to compensate for a REAL
PROBLEM that he can't answer for!
You are, once again, a weak and pathetic
excuse for a human being! (:
And now, I am done with your stupidity!
Goodbye, liar boy! Go worship yourself
and your man made doctrine! It obviously
means more to you than God's word!
***************************************************
The delusional mental gymnastics that futurists will
go through, to twist Scripture, so that they can
defend their man made doctrines! Scripture means
so little to them! (:
--
"Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass,
till all these things be fulfilled." - Matthew 24:34
O
/
/
<><[]()X()[]><>><>><>><>><>><>><>><>><>><>><>><>><>><>
\
\
O
"For the word of God is sharper than any two edged sword."
"Murder is unique in that it abolishes the party
it injures, so that society has to take the place
of the victim and on his behalf demand atonement
or grant forgiveness; it is the one crime in which
society has a direct interest." - W. H. Auden
.

User: "Seamus"

Title: Re: RANDY'S OUTER SPACE LAKE OF FIRE! 15 Jun 2006 11:09:15 AM
Pastor Dave wrote:

Randy, know as "alt.bible", or "Pulpitfire",
in order to protect his doctrine, has just
made up, on the fly, trying to cover the
fact that I showed him a problem with
his man made doctrine, the idea that
the lake of fire must be somewhere out
in space. Take a look...

Well, this does sort of sound like H.P. Lovecrafts' Azathoth Mythos.
It's still FICTION, but at least he apperantly has a reference
(provided that he's read H.P. Lovecraft, that is).
If you haven't read Lovecraft, I would suggest searching for Azathoth
on wikipedia.org for info.
.
User: "Pastor Dave"

Title: Re: RANDY'S OUTER SPACE LAKE OF FIRE! 15 Jun 2006 02:33:44 PM
On 15 Jun 2006 09:09:15 -0700, "Seamus"
<fomorianwolf@yahoo.com> spake thusly:

Pastor Dave wrote:

Randy, know as "alt.bible", or "Pulpitfire",
in order to protect his doctrine, has just
made up, on the fly, trying to cover the
fact that I showed him a problem with
his man made doctrine, the idea that
the lake of fire must be somewhere out
in space. Take a look...


Well, this does sort of sound like H.P. Lovecrafts' Azathoth Mythos.

It's still FICTION, but at least he apperantly has a reference
(provided that he's read H.P. Lovecraft, that is).

That is my point. Randy references men who write
ABOUT issues. His doctrine is NOT found in the
Bible itself.
--
"Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass,
till all these things be fulfilled." - Matthew 24:34
O
/
/
<><[]()X()[]><>><>><>><>><>><>><>><>><>><>><>><>><>><>
\
\
O
"For the word of God is sharper than any two edged sword."
"...we have a prior commitment, a commitment to
materialism. It is not that the methods and
institutions of science somehow compel us to accept
a material explanation of the phenomenal world, but,
on the contrary, that we are forced by our 'a priori'
adherence to material causes to create a set of
concepts that produce material explanations, no matter
how counter-intuitive, no matter how mystifying to the
uninitiated. Moreover, that materialism is an
absolute, for we cannot allow a Divine Foot in the
door." - Richard Lewontin, "Billions and Billions
of Demons, The New York Review of Books,
January 9, 1997, p. 31
.
User: "Seamus"

Title: Re: RANDY'S OUTER SPACE LAKE OF FIRE! 15 Jun 2006 03:19:09 PM

It's still FICTION, but at least he apperantly has a reference
(provided that he's read H.P. Lovecraft, that is).


... His doctrine is NOT found in the Bible itself.

Which is also a work of fiction. So it's an odd argument anyway.
.

User: "Mary Walker"

Title: Re: RANDY'S OUTER SPACE LAKE OF FIRE! 15 Jun 2006 05:02:34 PM
Pastor Dave,
The mistake you make is believing everything in the bible is true. Here's
some advise: use your brain, not your heart - start to think. It may be
difficult at first as your brain hasn't been used for such a long time but
as you start using that brain, eventually you will realise that the bible is
actually a crock of *****.
So, try exercising your brain and then I'll come back and talk to you.
Regards,
Mary
.
User: "Eric Brze"

Title: Re: RANDY'S OUTER SPACE LAKE OF FIRE! 15 Jun 2006 10:24:08 PM
On Thu, 15 Jun 2006 23:02:34 +0100, "Mary Walker" <mary@walker.com>
wrote:

Pastor Dave,

The mistake you make is believing everything in the bible is true. Here's
some advise: use your brain, not your heart - start to think. It may be
difficult at first as your brain hasn't been used for such a long time but
as you start using that brain, eventually you will realise that the bible is
actually a crock of *****.

So, try exercising your brain and then I'll come back and talk to you.

Actually, it's by the truthfulness of the heart we recognize the evil
of Jehovah. People are usually brainwashed by the authority. The brain
is trained to think according to what it's told. It can't make a wise
independent decision all by itself. It must rely on the heart, because
the heart is where Christ rules.


Regards,

Mary

.





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