| Topic: |
Religions > Bible |
| User: |
"disciple" |
| Date: |
24 Feb 2004 03:00:32 PM |
| Object: |
Re: 15/2 The OT prophecies, as quoted by the NT |
Eliyahu wrote in message
<7332f93b.0402142226.16af0cbb@posting.google.com>...
Bs'd
The NT brings OT prophecies of whom it claims that they are messianic
and fulfilled by JC.
Let's take a closer look at those prophecies.
The first one is to be found in Matthew 1:22; "All this took place to
fulfil what the Lord had spoken by the prophet: "Behold, a virgin
shall conceive and bear a son, and his name shall be called Emmanuel"
(which means, God with us)."
This OT prophecy quoted by the NT can be found in Isaiah 7:14;
"Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign. Behold, a young
woman shall conceive and bear a son, and shall call his name
Imman'u-el."
We see here that in Isaiah 7:14 is spoken about a young woman, and not
about a virgin.
Young woman is from the corrupted Alexandrian text. The massoreteic text,
which is the true Jewish scriptures has virgin.
IF YOU ARE GOING TO START USING HEBREW THEN MAKE SURE YOU HAVE HEBREW FROM
THE MASSORETIC TEXT; THAT IS THE REAL OLD TESTAMENT.
The King James version Old Testament is from the massoretic text.
The modern versions use a corrupted Alexandrrian text in which 5% of the
words were changed in the 4 th century by heretics called gnostics in
Alexandrian Egypt.
DON'T USE CORRUPTED HEBREW TEXTS.
MAKE SURE YOU HAVE THE REAL TEXT; THE MASSORETIC TEXT.
Many translations write in Isaiah 7:14 "virgin", and not "young
woman". For instance the King James says there "virgin". But the
Hebrew word in Isaiah 7:14 that the king James translation translates
as virgin is almah. In Hebrew almah means girl, young woman with her
state of virginity unspecified. Therefore the word virgin in Isaiah
7:14 is a wrong translation. The Hebrew word for virgin is betulah,
that word is used for instance when the Holy Torah speaks about
Rebecca in Genesis 24:16: "…a virgin, neither had any man known her"
.....This fact is recognized by many Christian Bible translators, for
instance "The New English Bible", "The Good News Bible", and "The
Revised Standard Version" have translated this verse in the right way,
and not as virgin. .
-----The King James translation recognizes this fact too. When we look
for instance at Exodus 2:8, and at Proverbs 30:19, there the Hebrew
text also uses the word almah, and there the King James translates it
with maid, which is a girl or young woman, whose state of virginity is
unspecified. And in psalm 68:25 the King James translates almah as
damsel, whose meaning is similar as maid.
So the New Testament is here misquoting the Old Testament.
.......Nowhere in the Old Testament is there a prophecy that the
messiah will be born unto a virgin.... In fact, nowhere in the Old
Testament do virgins give birth. This concept is only to be found in
pagan mythology.
And when we look at this verse in the right context, when we look at
the whole chapter of Isaiah 7, then we see that this verse is
definitely not refering to the coming of the messiah. This chapter
talks about G.d giving a sign to Achaz, that he will have tranquility
in his days. We see from this two things: the whole chapter speaks
about the days of Achaz, about 700 years before Jesus; verse 14:
"Therefore the LORD himself shall give you (King Achaz and his house)
a sign." G.d would not give him a sign by having a baby born 700 years
after his death. The second thing that we see is that the baby that is
talked about is only a sign, not a redeemer. G.d is the redeemer, as
it is written in verse 17: "The LORD shall bring upon thee…"
Another OT prophecy, as quoted by the NT:
"And he rose and took the child and his mother by night, and departed
to Egypt, and remained there until the death of Herod. This was to
fulfil what the Lord had spoken by the prophet, Out of Egypt have I
called my son." Matthew 2:14-15
Here a verse from Hosea 11:1 which says: "out of Egypt I called my
son." is applied to the messiah.
But let's take a look WHO is the son of God in the OT: "And you shall
say to Pharaoh, `Thus says the LORD, Israel is my first-born son, and
I say to you, "Let my son go that he may serve me"; if you refuse to
let him go, behold, I will slay your first-born son.'" Ex 4:22
That's clear language. And also in Hosea 11:1 it speaks CLEARLY about
Israel, which is redeemed by God from the slavery in Egypt: "When
Israel was a child, I loved him, and out of Egypt I called my son."
Please read Hosea chapter 10 and 11, and then you will see that it
speaks all the time about Israel, en not about the messiah.
What the NT does here is ripping a verse out context and present it to
us as a messianic prophecy.
Which it obviously isn't.
Another OT prophecy, as quoted by the NT:
Then Herod, when he saw that he had been tricked by the wise men, was
in a furious rage, and he sent and killed all the male children in
Bethlehem and in all that region who were two years old or under,
according to the time which he had ascertained from the wise men.
Then was fulfilled what was spoken by the prophet Jeremiah: "A voice
was heard in Ramah, wailing and loud lamentation, Rachel weeping for
her children; she refused to be consoled, because they were no more."
Matthew 2:16-18
Here the NT claims that Jeremiah 31:15 speaks about the slaughter of
children, taking place in the days of the birth of the messiah.
Now read here what is really happening in that text: Jeremiah
31:10-21;
""Hear the word of the LORD, O nations, and declare it in the
coastlands afar off; say, `He who scattered Israel will gather him,
and will keep him as a shepherd keeps his flock.' For the LORD has
ransomed Jacob, and has redeemed him from hands too strong for him.
They shall come and sing aloud on the height of Zion, and they shall
be radiant over the goodness of the LORD, over the grain, the wine,
and the oil, and over the young of the flock and the herd; their life
shall be like a watered garden, and they shall languish no more.
Then shall the maidens rejoice in the dance, and the young men and
the old shall be merry. I will turn their mourning into joy, I will
comfort them, and give them gladness for sorrow. I will feast the
soul of the priests with abundance, and my people shall be satisfied
with my goodness, says the LORD." Thus says the LORD: "A voice is
heard in Ramah, lamentation and bitter weeping. Rachel is weeping for
her children; she refuses to be comforted for her children, because
they are not." Thus says the LORD: "Keep your voice from weeping,
and your eyes from tears; for your work shall be rewarded, says the
LORD, and they shall come back from the land of the enemy. There is
hope for your future, says the LORD, and your children shall come back
to their own country. I have heard E'phraim bemoaning, `Thou hast
chastened me, and I was chastened, like an untrained calf; bring me
back that I may be restored, for thou art the LORD my God. For after
I had turned away I repented; and after I was instructed, I smote upon
my thigh; I was ashamed, and I was confounded, because I bore the
disgrace of my youth.' Is E'phraim my dear son? Is he my darling
child? For as often as I speak against him, I do remember him still.
Therefore my heart yearns for him; I will surely have mercy on him,
says the LORD."
As everyone can see; this speaks about Israel which was exiled and of
which God says it would return from the land of the enemy.
So this is another text which has nothing to do with murdering
children in the days of the messiah, a text which is ripped out of
context and presented to us as a messianic prophecy, which it is not.
Another OT prophecy, as quoted by the NT:
Matthew 2:23; "And he went and dwelt in a city called Nazareth, that
what was spoken by the prophets might be fulfilled, "He shall be
called a Nazarene.""
This prophecy won't take up much space, because you can read through
the OT from beginning to end, and NOWHERE is a prophecy to be found
which says that the messiah should be living in Nazareth, or that he
"shall be called a Nazarene".
So now the NT is quoting non existing prophecies.
Another OT prophecy, as quoted by the NT:
Matthew 27:9-10 "Then was fulfilled what had been spoken by the
prophet Jeremiah, saying, "And they took the thirty pieces of silver,
the price of him on whom a price had been set by some of the sons of
Israel, and they gave them for the potter's field, as the Lord
directed me."
And also this prophecy does NOT speak about the messiah.
But what is even more interesting is that this prophecy is not from
Jeremiah as the NT claims, but it is from Zechariah. See Zechariah
11:12-13; "I told them, "If you think it best, give me my pay; but if
not, keep it." So they paid me thirty pieces of silver. And the LORD
said to me, "Throw it to the potter"-the handsome price at which they
priced me! So I took the thirty pieces of silver and threw them into
the house of the LORD to the potter."
So the NT is written by Bible-illiterates who couldn't even mention
the right prophet…
Another OT prophecy, as quoted by the NT:
Luke 24:44-47; "Then he said to them, "These are my words which I
spoke to you, while I was still with you, that everything written
about me in the law of Moses and the prophets and the psalms must be
fulfilled." Then he opened their minds to understand the scriptures,
and said to them, "Thus it is written, that the Christ should suffer
and on the third day rise from the dead, and that repentance and
forgiveness of sins should be preached in his name to all nations,
beginning from Jerusalem."
And, surprise!, NOWHERE in the whole OT is it written that "the Christ
should suffer and on the third day rise from the dead, and that
repentance and forgiveness of sins should be preached in his name to
all nations, beginning from Jerusalem."
Another NT quote from the OT which is nowhere to be found in the OT.
How is it possible that there are people who keep on believing these
lies?
For more information about why the Jewish people don't recognize the
NT, look here: http://www.geocities.com/Metzad
Eliyahu
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| User: "Libertarius" |
|
| Title: Re: 15/2 The OT prophecies, as quoted by the NT -- STUPID LIE! |
24 Feb 2004 06:14:10 PM |
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disciple wrote:
Eliyahu wrote in message
<7332f93b.0402142226.16af0cbb@posting.google.com>...
Bs'd
The NT brings OT prophecies of whom it claims that they are messianic
and fulfilled by JC.
Let's take a closer look at those prophecies.
The first one is to be found in Matthew 1:22; "All this took place to
fulfil what the Lord had spoken by the prophet: "Behold, a virgin
shall conceive and bear a son, and his name shall be called Emmanuel"
(which means, God with us)."
This OT prophecy quoted by the NT can be found in Isaiah 7:14;
"Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign. Behold, a young
woman shall conceive and bear a son, and shall call his name
Imman'u-el."
We see here that in Isaiah 7:14 is spoken about a young woman, and not
about a virgin.
Young woman is from the corrupted Alexandrian text. The massoreteic text,
which is the true Jewish scriptures has virgin.
===>STUPID LIE!
The "Alexandrian test" is GREEK!
The word in Hebrew is ALMAH,
and it means any youthful human female,
regardless of hymenological status.
In the case of Isaiah 7:14 it is indeed a very NON-VIRGIN
young woman in a visibly advanced state of pregnancy,
"about to give birth"!!!
IF YOU ARE GOING TO START USING HEBREW THEN MAKE SURE YOU HAVE HEBREW FROM
THE MASSORETIC TEXT; THAT IS THE REAL OLD TESTAMENT.
===>If you are going to argue about Hebrew,
(or anything else, for that matter),
make sure you know what you are
talking about.
"Assuredly, my Lord will give you a sign of His own accord!
Look, the young woman is with child and about to give birth
to a son. Let her name him Immanuel." [footnote: Meaning
"with us is God"]
From the JPS TANAKH, translated by Hebrew scholars
from the traditional Hebrew text!
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