On Sat, 20 Dec 2003 10:11:57 -0700,
"rfburn" <rfburnhertz@hotpop.com> wrote:
Craig Chilton < > wrote:
rfburn <rfburnhertz@hotpop.com> wrote:
"Mizztandrea" wrote:
A child is born. Thus it is impossible to abort a child.
A fetus is aborted........it's not a child. Abortion is legal
because it's not murder.
The "fetus" is a human from conception.
No, it's not.
(1) "Conception" is FERTILIZATION. A
mechanical, transitional step from Stage 1
of the reproductive process (gametes) to
Stage 2. Done thousands of times a day
in laboratory petri dishes, NO big deal.
Necessary for ultimate births? Yes. But
SO are gametes.
(2) Gametes (sperm & ova) are unique, alive,
and HUMAN.
A 'fetus' is not a 'potential' human life.
I've never said it was. It is... JUST like gametes, aygotes, and
embryoes, a potential PERSON. All of those are human (adj.)
ENTITIES. **Personhood** begins at the moment of BIRTH.
A 'fetus' is 100% human.
SO are gametes, zygotes, and embryoes. The DNA that they
contain is 100% **human**.
"It is the penetration of the ovum by a spermatozoan and the
resultant mingling of the nuclear material each brings to the union
that constitutes the culmination of the process of fertilization and
marks the initiation of the LIFE of a new individual.
Dr. Bradley M. Patten
He's either an Anti-Choicer, or he never could have guessed that
you would take him so *literally.*
Human life is a **continuum** that probably *began* only ONCE
(barring any false starts), millions of years ago... and it's been
**self-sustaining** ever since. Thus, ALL entities within it, including
the Stage 1 entities of the 4-stage *reproductive* process (gametes;
sperm & ova) are ALIVE.
Anyone who mentally reverse-engineers ANY person will find that
there was a period of time when that particular, unique, person-to-be
existed in the form of a pair of gametes that had not yet met. But
which, when considering the DNA of each as though summed, as
the **same** DNA that it would have from that point on. If any person
alive is to be regarded to have a starting point AS a person-to-be
(since personhood begins at *birth*), then that point would actually
be *two* points in time... the points at which EACH of those gametes
first was fully- formed in the reproductive organs of the person-to be's
respective parents. Fertilization (which is incorrectly regarded as
"conception" by many) is nothing more than a transitional step from
Stage 1 to Stage 2 (the zygote stage). Even though a necessary
part of the process, it is no more important than the generation of the
gametes was. If the person being considered were to have had
either of those gametes die (as could have happened easily to the
sperm in the case of male masturbation), that particular unique person
wouldnever have been born. Gametes, just like the other three
stages, ALSO are alive, human, and *unique.*
There is no "specialness"attached to fertilization... not even by
the Bible. (Which is logical, since the Bible *never* regards or
defends reproductive-process entities as people. And just once,
as *property*... in a passage that also **condoned slavery**. NOR
does it ever condemn abortion in any way, even though -- by the
time Christ was born -- it WAS on the scene. Society had been
accomplishing it via abortifacients for at least 1,000 years by that
time.) It is merely a mechanical process, and is even done tens of
thousands of times a day in laboratory petri dishes.
Do other doctors disagree with this? Yes, some do (though the
vast majority do not).
Send the ones who don't a copy of the above. If they aren't
narrow-minded Anti-Choicers, they'll probably agree with it. Those
are clear FACTS.
Now, if there is any question as to when life begins, then we
should always error on the side of preserving life.
Wonderful. Then YOU and your fellow Anti-Choicers scrap your
hypocrisy and start defending those QUADRILLION living, human,
unique, potential-people gametes that are electively aborted daily,
worldwide. (*That* should be fun to watch!!) That's roughly a million
times more ACTUAL people than presently inhabit the earth. Every
DAY.
While you're about it, you might want to locate some suitable
planets for them to live on, and round up enough provisions and
ships to transport such numbers of people to them... daily.
Otherwise the entire world will starve to death INSTANTLY, and
*then* how much of a "pro-lifer* will you be?
Abortion is in fact murder.
One of the best things that sensible, fair-minded, and egalitarian
PRO-Choice people have going for us is the fact that you ANTI-Choicers
are so **obviously** DELUSIONAL. Thus, you are very properly laughing-
stocks in the eyes of most people. That was the last stage that the
segregationists went through before their EQUALLY-inane, bigoted, and
ignorant agenda went EXTINCT forever. Anti-Choice is destined for the
*same* well-deserved outcome, and then good riddance forever to it.
Deny that fact all you want, but your denying does not change
the facts.
ROTFL!!!!!!!! It is those very **relevant** FACTS that INDICT
your loathesome agenda! (See SIG, below.)
-- Craig Chilton
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
ANALYZING ABORTION-ON-REQUEST* in the USA
*(Abortion Rights as they have existed since 1-22-73)
Abortion terminates entities (z/e/fs: zygotes, embryoes &
fetuses, up until the 7th month of gestation*) which have ALL
of these characteristics in common with sperm and ova:
-- Human
-- Unique
-- As a stage of development, indispensable to future birth
-- Have NEVER experienced conscious awareness
-- Alive
...which makes it hypocritical when abortion opponents
try to defend z/e/fs but NOT sperm and ova.
*(AFTER the 7th month of gestation, rudimentary conscious
awareness is regarded possible, by medical science. But
that's a moot point since, per a report by JAMA, 99.99996%
of U.S. abortions already have been performed by that
point.)
And the Bible, which is the primary moral authority for the
majority of Americans:
-- In NO way condemns abortion
-- Doesn't even MENTION abortion
-- By Jesus' day, abortion had been around for 1,000 yrs.
-- Contains NO defenses of s/o/z/e/fs
-- Reserves ALL of its protection for already-BORN people
-- That the Bible regards personhood to begin at BIRTH is
made clear by its immense emphasis on the importance
of BIRTH order, and BIRTHrights.
-- In certain cases, condemned BABIES to horrible deaths
-- Never indicates that there is anything "special" about
fertilization
-- Thus making z/e/f and sperm & ova of EQUAL worth
Abortion-on-request enables women to:
-- Put their lives back on track immediately
-- Restore their well-being to pre-unplanned pregnancy levels
-- Vast majority of women are happy with this decision
-- Most women have no regrets
-- Restore their full range of future opportunities
-- Avoid physical difficulties of a 9-month pregnancy
-- Especially important for young girls, ~12-16
-- Statistically 6-10 times safer than carrying-to-term
-- Avoid the trauma of adopting-out, and wondering later
-- Avoid possibility of changing mind about adopting-out
-- Reduce likelihood of long-term economic deprivation
-- Avoid bringing child into less-loving home
-- Avoid bringing child into unstable environment
-- Wait until timing is better before having children
-- Who then are MORE likely to be loved
-- Who then are MORE likely to be in stable home
-- And thus are LESS like to have troubled childhoods
-- And therefore more likely NOT to become criminals
-- And thus are MORE likely to become successful
Legal abortion-on-request:
-- Is exponentially safer than illegal abortions
-- Thus saving the lives of hundreds or thousands of women/yr.
-- Has been available throughout the USA since early 1973
-- Between 1973 and 2000, 30 million women have had them
-- Between 1973 and 2000, 40 million abortions have been done
Other related facts include:
-- MOST women who have abortions go on to HAVE kids later,
when the timing is better
-- Those children would NOT have been born if the abortions
had not taken place earlier, because the same sperm and
ova would not have matched up.
-- Those "2nd-round" kids STARTED reaching age 13 in
significant numbers by 1988. By the early 1990s, millions
of those "2nd-round" kids were in their mid-teens by the
early 1990s.
-- Mid-teens is the highest risk age for crime, and this
continues into the early 20s.
-- As pointed out above, wanted and loved children are
LESS prone to criminal behavior.
-- By 1995, millions of "2nd-round kids" were entering the
workforce. Perhaps a million-plus MORE have entered it
every year SINCE. By 2000, the oldest ones had reached
the age where they could be getting quite successful.
-- Since the early 1990s, the rate of violent crime in the USA
has declined dramatically, and by 2000 was at 40-year
lows in many categories.
-- The decade of the 1990s, and the year 2002 to date, in
the USA, has been the most economically-dynamic of
any nation in the entire history of the world.
Although the exact figures may be impossible to derive, the
probability that abortion-on-request has SIGNIFICANTLY benefitted
all of America's society in terms of the crime rate and the economy
is QUITE strong, despite the temporary anomaly caused by the attack
on Sept. 11, 2001. And a strong U.S. economy benefits the entire
world.
-- Originally posted to alt.abortion & talk.abortion
on Aug. 13, 2000, and updated since.
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
-- Craig Chilton
.
|
