Glenn (Christian Mystic)
in <12erodjhro631dd@corp.supernews.com>
on 2006-08-24 announced this statement:

"Werner -the Christian Agnostic- Kurator" <werner@peace-with.all>
wrote in message news:slrnecnlda.46l.werner@peace-with.all...

::: veralein ::: in <4j21j3F5j907U1@individual.net>
on 2006-07-29 announced this statement:

In news:4j17haF5l0abU1@individual.net,
::: veralein ::: <veralein@lycos.com> typed:

<snip>

...13 And he was there in the wilderness forty days, tempted of
Satan; and was with the wild beasts; and the angels ministered
unto him.

next day, he was determined to go out into Galilee, and he found
Philip. Jesus said to him, "Follow me.""

(2) Jesus also was invited, with his disciples, to the
marriage. (3) When the wine ran out, Jesus' mother said to him,
"They have no wine."

So he had already the disciples with him...

Jesus had many disciples, at least 82 (counting the twelve) recall
when He sent the seventy disciples out two by two ?

==================XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX====================
John 6

66 From that time many of his disciples went back, and
walked no more with him.
==================XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX====================

So ?

You didn't understand the point I raised at all! My point is
*at* what time did Jesus *call* his apostles.
John/G/author claims that *Andrew* and an unnamed second person
followed Jesus, after John/t/B allegedly pointed out to them
that Jesus is the "Lamb". Well the point is that John/G/author
is in my view unreliable, when it comes to the question of
*time-line* of the events in Jesus life-time.
The 3 Synoptic Gospels say that Jesus didn't start his public
ministry *after* John/t/B was thrown into JAIL. That Jesus
returned back to his home-town, and started from there.

And how can the *third* day at the wedding of Cana (as Andrew
B.Chung said) if:

*First* day John gives the testimony about himself.
John 1:19-28 If this happened before or after the baptism of
Jesus would be also important, if this happened before Jesus 40
days fast, all the counts of the days are completely way *OFF*.

OK let say Jesus really returns to John *after* he finished the
40 days fast, and that John 1:19-20 happens after Jesus was
tempted by the devil. then John denying being Christ and Elijah
would be the *FIRST* day.

"SECOND" DAY Johns first testimony to Jesus.
John 1
29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and
saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of
the world.

*THIRD* day: John tells Andrew that Jesus is the Lamb of God.
John 1
35 Again the next day after John stood, and two of his
disciples;

*FOURTH* day by all accounts is John 1:43
John 1
43 The day following Jesus would go forth into Galilee,
and findeth Philip, and saith unto him, Follow me.

The first chapter of John finishes with this:

John 1
51 And he saith unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto you,
Hereafter ye shall see heaven open, and the angels of God
ascending and descending upon the Son of man.
========= When did this ever happen when Jesus was alive ====

Yet on that very *same third* day Jesus supposedly was to be all
the way up at Cana! I have seen people make up very interesting
ways to solve this...

John 2
1 And the third day there was a marriage in Cana of
Galilee; and the mother of Jesus was there:
2 And both Jesus was called, and his disciples, to the
marriage.

Yeah with a flight on a EL-AL (the national carrier of modern
time Israel) Jesus could have made the trip in *ONE* day.

OK John/t/B was doing his baptizing:

At the River Jordan near Bethany-across-the-Jordan,
or Bethabarah (sp?) this is near the Dead Sea:

on the map it can be found below PEREA

http://www.bible-history.com/geography/ancient-israel/israel-first-century.html

And then you have in the Chapter 2:

John 2
13 And the Jews' passover was at hand, and Jesus went up
to Jerusalem,
14 And found in the temple those that sold oxen and sheep
and doves, and the changers of money sitting:
15 And when he had made a scourge of small cords, he drove
them all out of the temple, and the sheep, and the oxen; and
poured out the changers' money, and overthrew the tables;
16 And said unto them that sold doves, Take these things
hence; make not my Father's house an house of merchandise.
17 And his disciples remembered that it was written, The
zeal of thine house hath eaten me up.
18 Then answered the Jews and said unto him, What sign
shewest thou unto us, seeing that thou doest these things?
19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple,
and in three days I will raise it up.
20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple
in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
21 But he spake of the temple of his body.
22 When therefore he was risen from the dead, his
disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and
they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had
said.
23 Now when he was in Jerusalem at the passover, in the
feast day, many believed in his name, when they saw the
miracles which he did.

"Read the Bible" maintains that Jesus found some of his
12 disciples (at least 4 of them) before he *officially* started
his ministry. His point is that the account as found in John is
correct. But it can't be when Jesus spends at least 4 days
around John, and then needs a few days to travel north to Cana.

<CUT>

He can change water into vine, and darkness into light.

I can change darkness into light too, just flip the light-switch
:-)

He can do miracles. He can!

And he said his followers could do even *greater* works, then him
now Vera Vera *what* would that be?

"*you* (collectively) shall do greater works than these", and over
the years, all of them compiled together, we have.

*What* miracles can you *REALLY* name? When this *Terry* Shiavo
(sp?) case happened, this would have been a great opportunity for
Christian to show us *great* works. But she died.

::: vera :::

<> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><>

"Ask, and it will be given you. Seek, and you will find. Knock,
and it will be opened for you. For everyone who asks receives.
He who seeks finds. To him who knocks it will be opened."
(Matthew 7:7-8 WEB)
<>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <><

Werner Kurator

Glenn (Christian Mystic)

Werner Kurator
--
==========================================================
"Like all translations of the Bible, made as they are by
imperfect man, this one undoubtedly falls short of its goals. Yet
we are grateful to God for the extent to which he has enabled us
to realize these goals and for the strength he has given us and
our colleagues to complete our task."

Preface to the "New International Version" of the Bible

June 1978

(Revised August 1983)
==============================================================
"I am writing for the 'Christian agnostic,' by which I mean a
person who... thought he is sure of many Christians truth,
feels that he cannot honestly and conscientiously 'sign on the
dotted line' that he believes certain theological ideas about
what some branches of the Church dogmatize."

"LESLIE D. WEATHERHEAD's thoughtful and compelling Christian
writings brought him worldwide acclaim during his lifetime. His
many other books include "the will of God", "The Autobiography
of Jesus", "Life begins at death", "The meaning of the Cross",
"Prescription for anxiety", and "time for God". Dr. Weatherhead
served as the pastor of City Temple in London, England, from
1936 until 1960"

== quote taken from the back-cover of his "the Christian Agnostic"...
==============================================================

"Of course the Universe hates you. You're working to reduce chaos by
expending a lot of energy to do your job. Thus, you're contributing to the
eventual heat death of the universe, and it's just protecting itself from
you." -- John Batzel

Very well spoken, Glenn.

[no need to scroll down]

In news:12erodjhro631dd@corp.supernews.com,
Glenn (Christian Mystic) <christianmystic@ev1.net> typed:

"Werner -the Christian Agnostic- Kurator" <werner@peace-with.all>
wrote in message news:slrnecnlda.46l.werner@peace-with.all...

veralein ::: in <4j21j3F5j907U1@individual.net>

on 2006-07-29 announced this statement:

In news:4j17haF5l0abU1@individual.net,

veralein ::: <veralein@lycos.com> typed:

<snip>

...13 And he was there in the wilderness forty days, tempted of
Satan; and was with the wild beasts; and the angels ministered
unto him.

next day, he was determined to go out into Galilee, and he
found Philip. Jesus said to him, "Follow me.""

(2) Jesus also was invited, with his disciples, to the
marriage. (3) When the wine ran out, Jesus' mother said to
him, "They have no wine."

So he had already the disciples with him...

Jesus had many disciples, at least 82 (counting the twelve) recall
when He sent the seventy disciples out two by two ?

So ?

<CUT>

He can change water into vine, and darkness into light.

I can change darkness into light too, just flip the light-switch
:-)

He can do miracles. He can!

And he said his followers could do even *greater* works, then
him now Vera Vera *what* would that be?

"*you* (collectively) shall do greater works than these", and over the
years, all of them compiled together, we have.

::: vera :::

<> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><>

"Ask, and it will be given you. Seek, and you will find.
Knock, and it will be opened for you. For everyone who asks
receives. He who seeks finds. To him who knocks it will be
opened." (Matthew 7:7-8 WEB)
<>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <><

Werner Kurator

Glenn (Christian Mystic)

--
===========================================================
"Like all translations of the Bible, made as they are by
imperfect man, this one falls short of it goal. Yet we are
grateful to God for the extend to which he has enabled us to
realize these goals and for the strength he has given us and our
colleagues to complete our task"

Preface to the "New International Version" of the Bible

August 1983......

==============================================================

"In fact, many professing agnostics are nearer belief in
the true God then are many conventional church-goers who
believe in a bogey that does not exist whom they miscall God."

Leslie D. Weatherhead; Preface to his "The Christian Agnostic"
==============================================================
I haven't been sick a day since I was a child. A steady diet of
cigars and
whiskey cured me. - W. C. Fields