| Topic: |
Religions > Bible |
| User: |
"Pastor Frank" |
| Date: |
22 Aug 2004 10:08:58 PM |
| Object: |
Re: Biblical authenticity |
There is an ongoing debate among scholars regarding the historical accuracy
of the Bible. Some feel that the Bible is a fictitious work and should be
read as a work of literary fiction. Others feel it is an accurate historical
work divinely inspired by God. Archaeology has played a major role in
determining the trustworthiness of the Bible. In this article, we will look
at the archaeological discoveries that have confirmed the historical
accuracy of the New Testament. There is a great deal of evidence
outside of the Bible that confirms the account of Jesus as written in the
Gospels.It is important to realise, however, that it is unrealistic to
expect archaeology to back up every event and place in the New Testament.
Our perspective is to look for what evidence exists and see whether or not
it corresponds with the New Testament.
Pastor Frank
Historical Confirmation of Jesus:
The first evidence comes from the four Gospels which, themselves, are proven
to be accurate.{1} Outside the biblical text are several witnesses as well.
Jewish historian Josephus (37 A.D.-100 A.D.) recorded the history of the
Jewish people in Palestine from 70 A.D. to 100 A.D. In his work Antiquities,
he states:
"Now there was about this time, Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call
him a man, for he was a doer of wonderful works, a teacher of such men as
receive the truth with pleasure. He drew over to him both many of the Jews
and many of the gentiles. He was the Christ and when Pilate, at the
suggestion of the principal men amongst us, had condemned him to the cross,
those that loved him at the first did not forsake him. For he appeared alive
again the third day, as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten
thousand other wonderful things concerning him; and the tribe of Christians,
so named from him, are not extinct to this day."{2}
Although he mentions Jesus in a sarcastic way, Josephus confirms the facts
that Jesus did do many great miracles, drew a following, was crucified, and
was proclaimed alive on the third day.
Pliny the Younger, Emperor of Bythynia in northwestern Turkey, writing to
Emperor Trajan in 112 A.D. writes:
"They were in the habit of meeting on a certain fixed day before it was
light, when they sang an anthem to Christ as God, and bound themselves by a
solemn oath not to commit any wicked deed, but to abstain from all fraud,
theft and adultery, never to break their word, or deny a trust when called
upon to honor it; after which it was their custom to separate, and then meet
again to partake of food, but ordinary and innocent kind."
One of the most important Romans historians is Tacitus. In 115 A.D. he
recorded Nero's persecution of the Christians, in the process of which he
wrote the following:
"Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty
during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius
Pilatus, and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment,
again broke out not only in Judea, . . . but even in Rome."{3}
There are over 39 extra-biblical sources that attest to over one hundred
facts regarding the life and teachings of Jesus.
Accuracy of the Gospels:
The accuracy of the Gospels has been supported by archaeology. The names of
many of the Israelite cities, events, and people described in them have now
been located. Here are a few examples.
The Gospels mention four neighboring and well-populated coastal cities along
the Sea of Galilee: Capernaum, Bethsaida, Chorazin, and Tiberias. Jesus
performed many miracles in the first three cities. Despite this testimony,
these cities rejected Jesus and therefore were cursed by Him (Matt.
11:20-24; Luke 10:12-16). These cities eventually disappeared from history
and their locations remained missing for centuries. Their demise fulfills
the prophetic condemnation of Jesus.
Only recently has archaeology recovered their possible locations. Tell Hum
is believed to be Capernaum. (A "tell" is a mound or elevated land that has
arisen by repeated and long-term rebuilding of the same site. Layers of
civilizations can be found at different strata). The locations of Bethsaida
and Chorazin still remain unconfirmed, but the present site at a tell 1.5
miles north of the Galilean shoreline is believed to be Bethsaida, while
Tell Khirbet Kerezah, 2.5 miles northwest of Capernaum, is thought to be
Chorazin.
Matthew 2 states that Jesus was born during the reign of Herod. Upon hearing
that a king had been born, the frightened Herod ordered all children under
the age of two to be killed. His slaughter of innocents is consistent with
the historical facts that describe his character. Herod was suspicious of
anyone whom he thought may take his throne. His list of victims included one
of his ten wives, who was his favorite, three of his own sons, a high
priest, an ex-king, and two of his sister's husbands. Thus, his brutality
portrayed in Matthew is consistent with his description in ancient history.
John's accuracy has also been attested to by recent discoveries. In John
5:1-15 Jesus heals a man at the Pool of Bethesda. John describes the pool as
having five porticoes. This site had long been in dispute until recently.
Forty feet underground, archaeologists discovered a pool with five
porticoes, and the description of the surrounding area matches John's
description. In 9:7 John mentions another long disputed site, the Pool of
Siloam. However, this pool was also discovered in 1897, upholding the
accuracy of John.
Evidence for Pontius Pilate, the governor who presided over the trial of
Jesus, was discovered in Caesarea Maritama. In 1961, an Italian
archaeologist named Antonio Frova uncovered a fragment of a plaque that was
used as a section of steps leading to the Caesarea Theater. The inscription,
written in Latin, contained the phrase, "Pontius Pilatus, Prefect of Judea
has dedicated to the people of Caesarea a temple in honor of Tiberius." This
temple is dedicated to the Emperor Tiberius who reigned from 14-37 A.D. This
fits well chronologically with the New Testament which records that Pilot
ruled as procurator from 26-36 A.D. Tacitus, a Roman historian of the first
century, also confirms the New Testament designation of Pilate. He writes,
"Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty
during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius
Pilatus. . . ."
Confirmation Regarding the Crucifixion:
All four Gospels give details of the crucifixion of Christ. Their accurate
portrayal of this Roman practice has been confirmed by archaeology. In 1968,
a gravesite in the city of Jerusalem was uncovered containing thirty-five
bodies. Each of the men had died a brutal death which historians believe was
the result of their involvement in the Jewish revolt against Rome in 70 A.D.
The inscription identified one individual as Yohan Ben Ha'galgol. Studies of
the bones performed by osteologists and doctors from the Hadassah Medical
School determined the man was twenty-eight years old, stood five feet six
inches, and had some slight facial defects due to a cleft right palate.
What intrigued archaeologists were the evidences that this man had been
crucified in a manner resembling the crucifixion of Christ. A seven-inch
nail had been driven through both feet, which were turned outward so the
nail could be hammered inside the Achilles tendon.
Archaeologists also discovered that nails had been driven through his lower
forearms. A victim of a crucifixion would have to raise and lower his body
in order to breathe. To do this, he needed to push up on his pierced feet
and pull up with his arms. Yohan's upper arms were smoothly worn, indicating
this movement.
John records that in order to expedite the death of a prisoner, executioners
broke the legs of the victim so that he could not lift himself up by pushing
with his feet (19:31-33). Yohan's legs were found crushed by a blow,
breaking them below the knee. The Dead Sea Scrolls tell that both Jews and
Romans abhorred crucifixion due to its cruelty and humiliation. The scrolls
also state it was a punishment reserved for slaves and any who challenged
the ruling powers of Rome. This explains why Pilate chose crucifixion as the
penalty for Jesus.
Relating to the crucifixion, in 1878 a stone slab was found in Nazareth with
a decree from Emperor Claudius who reigned from 41-54 A.D. It stated that
graves must not be disturbed nor bodies to be removed. The punishment on
other decrees is a fine but this one threatens death and comes very close to
the time of the resurrection. This was probably due to Claudius
investigating the riots of 49 A.D. He had certainly heard of the
resurrection and did not want any similar incidents. This decree was
probably made in connection with the Apostles' preaching of Jesus'
resurrection and the Jewish argument that the body had been stolen.
Historian Thallus wrote in 52 A.D. Although none of his texts remain, his
work is cited by Julius Africanus' work, Chronography. Quoting Thallus on
the crucifixion of Christ, Africanus states, "On the whole world, there
pressed a most fearful darkness, and the rocks were rent by an earthquake,
and many places in Judea and other districts were thrown down."{4} Thallus
calls this darkness, "as appears to me without reason, an eclipse of the
sun."{5}
All the discoveries made are consistent with the details in the crucifixion
account given by the writers of the Gospels. These facts lend indirect
support for the biblical accounts of Jesus' crucifixion and that the tomb
was empty.
Historical Accuracy of Luke:
At one time, scholars did not view Luke's historical accounts in his Gospel
and Acts as accurate. There appeared to be no evidence for several cities,
persons, and locations that he named in his works. However, archaeological
advances have revealed that Luke was a very accurate historian and the two
books he has authored remain accurate documents of history.
One of the greatest archaeologists is the late Sir William Ramsay. He
studied under the famous liberal German historical schools in the
mid-nineteenth century. Known for its scholarship, this school taught that
the New Testament was not a historical document. With this premise, Ramsay
investigated biblical claims as he searched through Asia Minor. What he
discovered caused him to reverse his initial view. He wrote:
"I began with a mind unfavorable to it [Acts], for the ingenuity and
apparent completeness of the Tubingen theory had at one time quite convinced
me. It did not then in my line of life to investigate the subject minutely;
but more recently I found myself often brought into contact with the Book of
Acts as an authority for the topography, antiquities, and society of Asia
Minor. It was gradually borne in upon me that in various details the
narrative showed marvelous truth."{6}
Luke's accuracy is demonstrated by the fact that he names key historical
figures in the correct time sequence as well as correct titles to government
officials in various areas: Thessalonica, politarchs; Ephesus, temple
wardens; Cyprus, procouncil; and Malta, the first man of the island.
In Luke's announcement of Jesus' public ministry (Luke 3:1), he mentions,
"Lysanius tetrarch of Abilene." Scholars questioned Luke's credibility since
the only Lysanius known for centuries was a ruler of Chalcis who ruled from
40-36 B.C. However an inscription dating to be in the time of Tiberius, who
ruled from 14-37 A.D., was found recording a temple dedication which names
Lysanius as the "tetrarch of Abila" near Damascus. This matches well with
Luke'saccount.
In Acts 18:12-17, Paul was brought before Gallio, the proconsul of Achaea.
Once again archaeology confirms this account. At Delphi an inscription of a
letter from Emperor Claudius was discovered. In it he states, "Lucius Junios
Gallio, my friend, and the proconsul of Achaia . . ."{7} Historians date the
inscription to 52 A.D. which corresponds to the time of the apostle's stay
in 51.
In Acts 19:22 and Romans 16:23, Erastus, a coworker of Paul, is named the
Corinthian city treasurer. Archaeologists excavating a Corinthian theatre in
1928 discovered an inscription. It reads, "Erastus in return for his
aedilship laid the pavement at his own expense." The pavement was laid in 50
A.D. The designation of treasurer describes the work of a Corinthian aedile.
In Acts 28:7, Luke gives Plubius, the chief man on the island of Malta, the
title, "first man of the island." Scholars questioned this strange title and
deemed it unhistorical. Inscriptions have recently been discovered on the
island that indeed gives Plubius the title of "first man."
"In all, Luke names thirty-two countries, fifty-four cities, and nine
islands without error."{8} A. N. Sherwin-White states, "For Acts the
confirmation of historicity is overwhelming. . . . Any attempt to reject its
basic historicity must now appear absurd. Roman historians have long taken
it for granted."{9}
The Shroud of Turin:
The Gospels record that after His crucifixion Jesus was wrapped in a long
linen cloth and placed in the tomb (Matt. 27:59). John records that when
Peter investigated the empty tomb, he found the burial cloth folded neatly
next to where Christ once laid (20:6-7).
A linen shroud called the Shroud of Turin, on display at the Vatican, has
been claimed to be that burial cloth. It is 14.25 feet long and 3.5 feet
wide. On it is an image with pierced wrists and ankles believed to be that
of Christ.
The shroud first appeared for public display sometime after 1357 in Lirey,
France. A knight named Geoffrey de Charny brought the shroud to France. In
1453 de Charny's granddaughter gave the shroud to the Duke of Savoy who then
in 1578 brought it to Turin, Italy. In 1983, it was willed to the Vatican.
In 1898, Secondo Pia photographed the shroud and believed the image was a
negative image like that of a photograph. This added to the mystery of the
shroud since photography had not been invented during medieval times. In
1973 a group of experts confirmed the fact that no pigment of paint was
found even under magnification. For many, this was proof of the shroud's
authenticity.
The most extensive study was undertaken in 1977. An international team of
Swiss, American, and Italian scientist studied the shroud for five days at
the Savoy Royal Palace at Turin. They used six tons of equipment and 2.5
million dollars for their research. It has been one of the most intensely
studied artifacts of all time.
The study could not determine the authenticity of the fabric. Experiments
that followed proved the image contained blood as well as aragonite, a
particular calcium carbonate that is found in Jerusalem's first century
tombs. Swiss criminologist Max Frei found forty-eight samples of pollen, of
which seven could have come from plants in Palestine. The weave of the cloth
was herringbone twill, a style that existed in ancient times.
Although these findings supported the authenticity of the shroud, other
findings testified otherwise. In 1987, the shroud was carbon 14 tested to
verify its date. Laboratories in Oxford, Zurich, and the University of
Arizona tested the cloth. The result indicated a fourteenth century date for
the shroud. This conclusion continues to be challenged and future tests are
sure to follow. Another problem is that coins minted by Pontius Pilate were
placed over the eyes of the figure. This was not a Jewish custom, nor does
it seem likely that Joseph of Arimathea or Nicodemus would have placed on
Jesus' eyes a coin with the image of the leader who condemned him.
Despite the fourteenth century date, scientists are still unable to explain
how the negative image was created. The shroud remains a mystery as well as
a lesson for us as believers that we should not put our faith in mysterious
articles.
Notes:
1. See "Authority of the Bible" at www.probe.docs/auth-bib.html.
2. Josephus, Book 18, Chapter 3:3
3. Tacitus, Annals, 15.44
4. Julius Africanus, Chronography, 18:1.
5. Ibid.
6. William Ramsay, St. Paul the Traveler and the Roman Citizen (Grand
Rapids, MI: Baker Books, 1982), 8.
7. John McRay, Archaeology and the New Testament (Grand Rapids, MI.: Baker
Books, 1991), 227.
8. Norman Geisler, Baker Encyclopedia of Apologetics (Grand Rapids, MI.:
Baker Books, 1999), 47.
9. A. N. Sherwing-White, Roman Society and Roman Law in the New Testament
(Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1963), 189.
---
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| User: "Libertarius" |
|
| Title: Re: Biblical authenticity -- MORE LIES |
23 Aug 2004 10:17:57 AM |
|
|
MORE LIES BY THE FAKE "PASTOR".
Pastor Frank wrote:
There is an ongoing debate among scholars regarding the historical accuracy
of the Bible. Some feel that the Bible is a fictitious work and should be
read as a work of literary fiction. Others feel it is an accurate historical
work divinely inspired by God. Archaeology has played a major role in
determining the trustworthiness of the Bible. In this article, we will look
at the archaeological discoveries that have confirmed the historical
accuracy of the New Testament. There is a great deal of evidence
outside of the Bible that confirms the account of Jesus as written in the
Gospels.It is important to realise, however, that it is unrealistic to
expect archaeology to back up every event and place in the New Testament.
Our perspective is to look for what evidence exists and see whether or not
it corresponds with the New Testament.
Pastor Frank
Historical Confirmation of Jesus:
The first evidence comes from the four Gospels which, themselves, are proven
to be accurate.{1}
===>Not only are they not "proven", the four "Gospels" contradict
one another and even contain well known forgeries, e.g. the last segment
of MARK (16:9-20) and the entire last chapter (Ch. 21) of JOHN.
(Note that Ch. 20 concludes the book with v. 30)
Outside the biblical text are several witnesses as well.
Jewish historian Josephus (37 A.D.-100 A.D.) recorded the history of the
Jewish people in Palestine from 70 A.D. to 100 A.D. In his work Antiquities,
he states:
"Now there was about this time, Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call
him a man, for he was a doer of wonderful works, a teacher of such men as
receive the truth with pleasure. He drew over to him both many of the Jews
and many of the gentiles. He was the Christ and when Pilate, at the
suggestion of the principal men amongst us, had condemned him to the cross,
those that loved him at the first did not forsake him. For he appeared alive
again the third day, as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten
thousand other wonderful things concerning him; and the tribe of Christians,
so named from him, are not extinct to this day."{2}
===>This is also a well known forgery, not available to the earliest Church
writers.
Although he mentions Jesus in a sarcastic way, Josephus confirms the facts
that Jesus did do many great miracles, drew a following, was crucified, and
was proclaimed alive on the third day.
Pliny the Younger, Emperor of Bythynia in northwestern Turkey, writing to
Emperor Trajan in 112 A.D. writes:
"They were in the habit of meeting on a certain fixed day before it was
light, when they sang an anthem to Christ as God, and bound themselves by a
solemn oath not to commit any wicked deed, but to abstain from all fraud,
theft and adultery, never to break their word, or deny a trust when called
upon to honor it; after which it was their custom to separate, and then meet
again to partake of food, but ordinary and innocent kind."
===>This only confirms that the earliest known "Christians" worshipped the
deity called "Christos". NOTHING about Jesus and the Gospels or the
"New Testament" or the "Bible" (which did not yet exist, but was compiled
some two centuries later).
One of the most important Romans historians is Tacitus. In 115 A.D. he
recorded Nero's persecution of the Christians, in the process of which he
wrote the following:
"Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty
during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius
Pilatus, and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment,
again broke out not only in Judea, . . . but even in Rome."{3}
===>Again, Tacitus simply tells us what an abominable cult was being
worshipped under the name of "Christos". NO PROOF of "Biblical authenticity",
NOTHING about Jesus and the Gospels or the "New Testament" or the "Bible"
(which did not yet exist, but was compiled some two centuries later).
There are over 39 extra-biblical sources that attest to over one hundred
facts regarding the life and teachings of Jesus.
===>Really?
Why don't you LIST THEM, LIAR???
Accuracy of the Gospels:
The accuracy of the Gospels has been supported by archaeology. The names of
many of the Israelite cities, events, and people described in them have now
been located.
===>ALL historical fiction contains names of actual cities, references to events
and
real people. That does not PROVE "Biblical authenticity".
Here are a few examples.
The Gospels mention four neighboring and well-populated coastal cities along
the Sea of Galilee: Capernaum, Bethsaida, Chorazin, and Tiberias.
===>So, what?
The fictional stories take place in that area. Any good writer would at least
tie his stories to those locations.
Jesus performed many miracles in the first three cities.
===>What "miracles"???
Where is your "evidence"???
Despite this testimony,
these cities rejected Jesus and therefore were cursed by Him (Matt.
11:20-24; Luke 10:12-16).
===>So the story goes.
These cities eventually disappeared from history
and their locations remained missing for centuries. Their demise fulfills
the prophetic condemnation of Jesus.
===>How many cities of the 1st century C.E. are still standing,
Sheepherder?
Only recently has archaeology recovered their possible locations. Tell Hum
is believed to be Capernaum. (A "tell" is a mound or elevated land that has
arisen by repeated and long-term rebuilding of the same site. Layers of
civilizations can be found at different strata). The locations of Bethsaida
and Chorazin still remain unconfirmed, but the present site at a tell 1.5
miles north of the Galilean shoreline is believed to be Bethsaida, while
Tell Khirbet Kerezah, 2.5 miles northwest of Capernaum, is thought to be
Chorazin.
Matthew 2 states that Jesus was born during the reign of Herod. Upon hearing
that a king had been born, the frightened Herod ordered all children under
the age of two to be killed. His slaughter of innocents is consistent with
the historical facts that describe his character. Herod was suspicious of
anyone whom he thought may take his throne. His list of victims included one
of his ten wives, who was his favorite, three of his own sons, a high
priest, an ex-king, and two of his sister's husbands. Thus, his brutality
portrayed in Matthew is consistent with his description in ancient history.
John's accuracy has also been attested to by recent discoveries. In John
5:1-15 Jesus heals a man at the Pool of Bethesda. John describes the pool as
having five porticoes. This site had long been in dispute until recently.
Forty feet underground, archaeologists discovered a pool with five
porticoes, and the description of the surrounding area matches John's
description. In 9:7 John mentions another long disputed site, the Pool of
Siloam. However, this pool was also discovered in 1897, upholding the
accuracy of John.
Evidence for Pontius Pilate, the governor who presided over the trial of
Jesus, was discovered in Caesarea Maritama. In 1961, an Italian
archaeologist named Antonio Frova uncovered a fragment of a plaque that was
used as a section of steps leading to the Caesarea Theater. The inscription,
written in Latin, contained the phrase, "Pontius Pilatus, Prefect of Judea
has dedicated to the people of Caesarea a temple in honor of Tiberius." This
temple is dedicated to the Emperor Tiberius who reigned from 14-37 A.D. This
fits well chronologically with the New Testament which records that Pilot
ruled as procurator from 26-36 A.D. Tacitus, a Roman historian of the first
century, also confirms the New Testament designation of Pilate. He writes,
"Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty
during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius
Pilatus. . . ."
Confirmation Regarding the Crucifixion:
All four Gospels give details of the crucifixion of Christ. Their accurate
portrayal of this Roman practice has been confirmed by archaeology. In 1968,
a gravesite in the city of Jerusalem was uncovered containing thirty-five
bodies. Each of the men had died a brutal death which historians believe was
the result of their involvement in the Jewish revolt against Rome in 70 A.D.
The inscription identified one individual as Yohan Ben Ha'galgol. Studies of
the bones performed by osteologists and doctors from the Hadassah Medical
School determined the man was twenty-eight years old, stood five feet six
inches, and had some slight facial defects due to a cleft right palate.
===>So, they found Jesus!
CONGRATULATIONS.
NONE of the material you cite proves "Biblical authenticity".
No more than details, say, in GONE WITH THE WIND prove that the
story is "authentic".
Oh, well...........
So much for another LIE by Sheepherder Frank. -- L.
====================================================
What intrigued archaeologists were the evidences that this man had been
crucified in a manner resembling the crucifixion of Christ. A seven-inch
nail had been driven through both feet, which were turned outward so the
nail could be hammered inside the Achilles tendon.
Archaeologists also discovered that nails had been driven through his lower
forearms. A victim of a crucifixion would have to raise and lower his body
in order to breathe. To do this, he needed to push up on his pierced feet
and pull up with his arms. Yohan's upper arms were smoothly worn, indicating
this movement.
John records that in order to expedite the death of a prisoner, executioners
broke the legs of the victim so that he could not lift himself up by pushing
with his feet (19:31-33). Yohan's legs were found crushed by a blow,
breaking them below the knee. The Dead Sea Scrolls tell that both Jews and
Romans abhorred crucifixion due to its cruelty and humiliation. The scrolls
also state it was a punishment reserved for slaves and any who challenged
the ruling powers of Rome. This explains why Pilate chose crucifixion as the
penalty for Jesus.
Relating to the crucifixion, in 1878 a stone slab was found in Nazareth with
a decree from Emperor Claudius who reigned from 41-54 A.D. It stated that
graves must not be disturbed nor bodies to be removed. The punishment on
other decrees is a fine but this one threatens death and comes very close to
the time of the resurrection. This was probably due to Claudius
investigating the riots of 49 A.D. He had certainly heard of the
resurrection and did not want any similar incidents. This decree was
probably made in connection with the Apostles' preaching of Jesus'
resurrection and the Jewish argument that the body had been stolen.
Historian Thallus wrote in 52 A.D. Although none of his texts remain, his
work is cited by Julius Africanus' work, Chronography. Quoting Thallus on
the crucifixion of Christ, Africanus states, "On the whole world, there
pressed a most fearful darkness, and the rocks were rent by an earthquake,
and many places in Judea and other districts were thrown down."{4} Thallus
calls this darkness, "as appears to me without reason, an eclipse of the
sun."{5}
All the discoveries made are consistent with the details in the crucifixion
account given by the writers of the Gospels. These facts lend indirect
support for the biblical accounts of Jesus' crucifixion and that the tomb
was empty.
Historical Accuracy of Luke:
At one time, scholars did not view Luke's historical accounts in his Gospel
and Acts as accurate. There appeared to be no evidence for several cities,
persons, and locations that he named in his works. However, archaeological
advances have revealed that Luke was a very accurate historian and the two
books he has authored remain accurate documents of history.
One of the greatest archaeologists is the late Sir William Ramsay. He
studied under the famous liberal German historical schools in the
mid-nineteenth century. Known for its scholarship, this school taught that
the New Testament was not a historical document. With this premise, Ramsay
investigated biblical claims as he searched through Asia Minor. What he
discovered caused him to reverse his initial view. He wrote:
"I began with a mind unfavorable to it [Acts], for the ingenuity and
apparent completeness of the Tubingen theory had at one time quite convinced
me. It did not then in my line of life to investigate the subject minutely;
but more recently I found myself often brought into contact with the Book of
Acts as an authority for the topography, antiquities, and society of Asia
Minor. It was gradually borne in upon me that in various details the
narrative showed marvelous truth."{6}
Luke's accuracy is demonstrated by the fact that he names key historical
figures in the correct time sequence as well as correct titles to government
officials in various areas: Thessalonica, politarchs; Ephesus, temple
wardens; Cyprus, procouncil; and Malta, the first man of the island.
In Luke's announcement of Jesus' public ministry (Luke 3:1), he mentions,
"Lysanius tetrarch of Abilene." Scholars questioned Luke's credibility since
the only Lysanius known for centuries was a ruler of Chalcis who ruled from
40-36 B.C. However an inscription dating to be in the time of Tiberius, who
ruled from 14-37 A.D., was found recording a temple dedication which names
Lysanius as the "tetrarch of Abila" near Damascus. This matches well with
Luke'saccount.
In Acts 18:12-17, Paul was brought before Gallio, the proconsul of Achaea.
Once again archaeology confirms this account. At Delphi an inscription of a
letter from Emperor Claudius was discovered. In it he states, "Lucius Junios
Gallio, my friend, and the proconsul of Achaia . . ."{7} Historians date the
inscription to 52 A.D. which corresponds to the time of the apostle's stay
in 51.
In Acts 19:22 and Romans 16:23, Erastus, a coworker of Paul, is named the
Corinthian city treasurer. Archaeologists excavating a Corinthian theatre in
1928 discovered an inscription. It reads, "Erastus in return for his
aedilship laid the pavement at his own expense." The pavement was laid in 50
A.D. The designation of treasurer describes the work of a Corinthian aedile.
In Acts 28:7, Luke gives Plubius, the chief man on the island of Malta, the
title, "first man of the island." Scholars questioned this strange title and
deemed it unhistorical. Inscriptions have recently been discovered on the
island that indeed gives Plubius the title of "first man."
"In all, Luke names thirty-two countries, fifty-four cities, and nine
islands without error."{8} A. N. Sherwin-White states, "For Acts the
confirmation of historicity is overwhelming. . . . Any attempt to reject its
basic historicity must now appear absurd. Roman historians have long taken
it for granted."{9}
The Shroud of Turin:
The Gospels record that after His crucifixion Jesus was wrapped in a long
linen cloth and placed in the tomb (Matt. 27:59). John records that when
Peter investigated the empty tomb, he found the burial cloth folded neatly
next to where Christ once laid (20:6-7).
A linen shroud called the Shroud of Turin, on display at the Vatican, has
been claimed to be that burial cloth. It is 14.25 feet long and 3.5 feet
wide. On it is an image with pierced wrists and ankles believed to be that
of Christ.
The shroud first appeared for public display sometime after 1357 in Lirey,
France. A knight named Geoffrey de Charny brought the shroud to France. In
1453 de Charny's granddaughter gave the shroud to the Duke of Savoy who then
in 1578 brought it to Turin, Italy. In 1983, it was willed to the Vatican.
In 1898, Secondo Pia photographed the shroud and believed the image was a
negative image like that of a photograph. This added to the mystery of the
shroud since photography had not been invented during medieval times. In
1973 a group of experts confirmed the fact that no pigment of paint was
found even under magnification. For many, this was proof of the shroud's
authenticity.
The most extensive study was undertaken in 1977. An international team of
Swiss, American, and Italian scientist studied the shroud for five days at
the Savoy Royal Palace at Turin. They used six tons of equipment and 2.5
million dollars for their research. It has been one of the most intensely
studied artifacts of all time.
The study could not determine the authenticity of the fabric. Experiments
that followed proved the image contained blood as well as aragonite, a
particular calcium carbonate that is found in Jerusalem's first century
tombs. Swiss criminologist Max Frei found forty-eight samples of pollen, of
which seven could have come from plants in Palestine. The weave of the cloth
was herringbone twill, a style that existed in ancient times.
Although these findings supported the authenticity of the shroud, other
findings testified otherwise. In 1987, the shroud was carbon 14 tested to
verify its date. Laboratories in Oxford, Zurich, and the University of
Arizona tested the cloth. The result indicated a fourteenth century date for
the shroud. This conclusion continues to be challenged and future tests are
sure to follow. Another problem is that coins minted by Pontius Pilate were
placed over the eyes of the figure. This was not a Jewish custom, nor does
it seem likely that Joseph of Arimathea or Nicodemus would have placed on
Jesus' eyes a coin with the image of the leader who condemned him.
Despite the fourteenth century date, scientists are still unable to explain
how the negative image was created. The shroud remains a mystery as well as
a lesson for us as believers that we should not put our faith in mysterious
articles.
Notes:
1. See "Authority of the Bible" at www.probe.docs/auth-bib.html.
2. Josephus, Book 18, Chapter 3:3
3. Tacitus, Annals, 15.44
4. Julius Africanus, Chronography, 18:1.
5. Ibid.
6. William Ramsay, St. Paul the Traveler and the Roman Citizen (Grand
Rapids, MI: Baker Books, 1982), 8.
7. John McRay, Archaeology and the New Testament (Grand Rapids, MI.: Baker
Books, 1991), 227.
8. Norman Geisler, Baker Encyclopedia of Apologetics (Grand Rapids, MI.:
Baker Books, 1999), 47.
9. A. N. Sherwing-White, Roman Society and Roman Law in the New Testament
(Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1963), 189.
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| User: "Pastor Frank" |
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| Title: Re: Biblical authenticity -- MORE LIES |
23 Aug 2004 04:45:44 PM |
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"Libertarius" <Libertarius@Nothing_But_The.Truth> wrote in message
news:412A0AA5.309B2464@Nothing_But_The.Truth...
Pastor Frank wrote:
MORE LIES BY THE FAKE "PASTOR".
I supplied a Bibliography for reference of MY opinions, "FAKE atheist"
Libertine. Where is yours, "LIAR" from hell?
--
Pastor Frank
--------------------
There is an ongoing debate among scholars regarding the historical
accuracy
of the Bible. Some feel that the Bible is a fictitious work and should
be
read as a work of literary fiction. Others feel it is an accurate
historical
work divinely inspired by God. Archaeology has played a major role in
determining the trustworthiness of the Bible. In this article, we will
look
at the archaeological discoveries that have confirmed the historical
accuracy of the New Testament. There is a great deal of evidence
outside of the Bible that confirms the account of Jesus as written in
the
Gospels.It is important to realise, however, that it is unrealistic to
expect archaeology to back up every event and place in the New
Testament.
Our perspective is to look for what evidence exists and see whether or
not
it corresponds with the New Testament.
Pastor Frank
Historical Confirmation of Jesus:
The first evidence comes from the four Gospels which, themselves, are
proven
to be accurate.{1}
===>Not only are they not "proven", the four "Gospels" contradict
one another and even contain well known forgeries, e.g. the last segment
of MARK (16:9-20) and the entire last chapter (Ch. 21) of JOHN.
(Note that Ch. 20 concludes the book with v. 30)
Outside the biblical text are several witnesses as well.
Jewish historian Josephus (37 A.D.-100 A.D.) recorded the history of the
Jewish people in Palestine from 70 A.D. to 100 A.D. In his work
Antiquities,
he states:
"Now there was about this time, Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to
call
him a man, for he was a doer of wonderful works, a teacher of such men
as
receive the truth with pleasure. He drew over to him both many of the
Jews
and many of the gentiles. He was the Christ and when Pilate, at the
suggestion of the principal men amongst us, had condemned him to the
cross,
those that loved him at the first did not forsake him. For he appeared
alive
again the third day, as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten
thousand other wonderful things concerning him; and the tribe of
Christians,
so named from him, are not extinct to this day."{2}
===>This is also a well known forgery, not available to the earliest
Church
writers.
Although he mentions Jesus in a sarcastic way, Josephus confirms the
facts
that Jesus did do many great miracles, drew a following, was crucified,
and
was proclaimed alive on the third day.
Pliny the Younger, Emperor of Bythynia in northwestern Turkey, writing
to
Emperor Trajan in 112 A.D. writes:
"They were in the habit of meeting on a certain fixed day before it was
light, when they sang an anthem to Christ as God, and bound themselves
by a
solemn oath not to commit any wicked deed, but to abstain from all
fraud,
theft and adultery, never to break their word, or deny a trust when
called
upon to honor it; after which it was their custom to separate, and then
meet
again to partake of food, but ordinary and innocent kind."
===>This only confirms that the earliest known "Christians" worshipped the
deity called "Christos". NOTHING about Jesus and the Gospels or the
"New Testament" or the "Bible" (which did not yet exist, but was compiled
some two centuries later).
One of the most important Romans historians is Tacitus. In 115 A.D. he
recorded Nero's persecution of the Christians, in the process of which
he
wrote the following:
"Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme
penalty
during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators,
Pontius
Pilatus, and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the
moment,
again broke out not only in Judea, . . . but even in Rome."{3}
===>Again, Tacitus simply tells us what an abominable cult was being
worshipped under the name of "Christos". NO PROOF of "Biblical
authenticity",
NOTHING about Jesus and the Gospels or the "New Testament" or the "Bible"
(which did not yet exist, but was compiled some two centuries later).
There are over 39 extra-biblical sources that attest to over one hundred
facts regarding the life and teachings of Jesus.
===>Really?
Why don't you LIST THEM, LIAR???
Accuracy of the Gospels:
The accuracy of the Gospels has been supported by archaeology. The names
of
many of the Israelite cities, events, and people described in them have
now
been located.
===>ALL historical fiction contains names of actual cities, references to
events
and
real people. That does not PROVE "Biblical authenticity".
Here are a few examples.
The Gospels mention four neighboring and well-populated coastal cities
along
the Sea of Galilee: Capernaum, Bethsaida, Chorazin, and Tiberias.
===>So, what?
The fictional stories take place in that area. Any good writer would at
least
tie his stories to those locations.
Jesus performed many miracles in the first three cities.
===>What "miracles"???
Where is your "evidence"???
Despite this testimony,
these cities rejected Jesus and therefore were cursed by Him (Matt.
11:20-24; Luke 10:12-16).
===>So the story goes.
These cities eventually disappeared from history
and their locations remained missing for centuries. Their demise
fulfills
the prophetic condemnation of Jesus.
===>How many cities of the 1st century C.E. are still standing,
Sheepherder?
Only recently has archaeology recovered their possible locations. Tell
Hum
is believed to be Capernaum. (A "tell" is a mound or elevated land that
has
arisen by repeated and long-term rebuilding of the same site. Layers of
civilizations can be found at different strata). The locations of
Bethsaida
and Chorazin still remain unconfirmed, but the present site at a tell
1.5
miles north of the Galilean shoreline is believed to be Bethsaida, while
Tell Khirbet Kerezah, 2.5 miles northwest of Capernaum, is thought to be
Chorazin.
Matthew 2 states that Jesus was born during the reign of Herod. Upon
hearing
that a king had been born, the frightened Herod ordered all children
under
the age of two to be killed. His slaughter of innocents is consistent
with
the historical facts that describe his character. Herod was suspicious
of
anyone whom he thought may take his throne. His list of victims included
one
of his ten wives, who was his favorite, three of his own sons, a high
priest, an ex-king, and two of his sister's husbands. Thus, his
brutality
portrayed in Matthew is consistent with his description in ancient
history.
John's accuracy has also been attested to by recent discoveries. In John
5:1-15 Jesus heals a man at the Pool of Bethesda. John describes the
pool as
having five porticoes. This site had long been in dispute until
recently.
Forty feet underground, archaeologists discovered a pool with five
porticoes, and the description of the surrounding area matches John's
description. In 9:7 John mentions another long disputed site, the Pool
of
Siloam. However, this pool was also discovered in 1897, upholding the
accuracy of John.
Evidence for Pontius Pilate, the governor who presided over the trial of
Jesus, was discovered in Caesarea Maritama. In 1961, an Italian
archaeologist named Antonio Frova uncovered a fragment of a plaque that
was
used as a section of steps leading to the Caesarea Theater. The
inscription,
written in Latin, contained the phrase, "Pontius Pilatus, Prefect of
Judea
has dedicated to the people of Caesarea a temple in honor of Tiberius."
This
temple is dedicated to the Emperor Tiberius who reigned from 14-37 A.D.
This
fits well chronologically with the New Testament which records that
Pilot
ruled as procurator from 26-36 A.D. Tacitus, a Roman historian of the
first
century, also confirms the New Testament designation of Pilate. He
writes,
"Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme
penalty
during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators,
Pontius
Pilatus. . . ."
Confirmation Regarding the Crucifixion:
All four Gospels give details of the crucifixion of Christ. Their
accurate
portrayal of this Roman practice has been confirmed by archaeology. In
1968,
a gravesite in the city of Jerusalem was uncovered containing
thirty-five
bodies. Each of the men had died a brutal death which historians believe
was
the result of their involvement in the Jewish revolt against Rome in 70
A.D.
The inscription identified one individual as Yohan Ben Ha'galgol.
Studies of
the bones performed by osteologists and doctors from the Hadassah
Medical
School determined the man was twenty-eight years old, stood five feet
six
inches, and had some slight facial defects due to a cleft right palate.
===>So, they found Jesus!
CONGRATULATIONS.
NONE of the material you cite proves "Biblical
authenticity".
No more than details, say, in GONE WITH THE WIND prove that the
story is "authentic".
Oh, well...........
So much for another LIE by Sheepherder Frank. -- L.
====================================================
What intrigued archaeologists were the evidences that this man had been
crucified in a manner resembling the crucifixion of Christ. A seven-inch
nail had been driven through both feet, which were turned outward so the
nail could be hammered inside the Achilles tendon.
Archaeologists also discovered that nails had been driven through his
lower
forearms. A victim of a crucifixion would have to raise and lower his
body
in order to breathe. To do this, he needed to push up on his pierced
feet
and pull up with his arms. Yohan's upper arms were smoothly worn,
indicating
this movement.
John records that in order to expedite the death of a prisoner,
executioners
broke the legs of the victim so that he could not lift himself up by
pushing
with his feet (19:31-33). Yohan's legs were found crushed by a blow,
breaking them below the knee. The Dead Sea Scrolls tell that both Jews
and
Romans abhorred crucifixion due to its cruelty and humiliation. The
scrolls
also state it was a punishment reserved for slaves and any who
challenged
the ruling powers of Rome. This explains why Pilate chose crucifixion as
the
penalty for Jesus.
Relating to the crucifixion, in 1878 a stone slab was found in Nazareth
with
a decree from Emperor Claudius who reigned from 41-54 A.D. It stated
that
graves must not be disturbed nor bodies to be removed. The punishment on
other decrees is a fine but this one threatens death and comes very
close to
the time of the resurrection. This was probably due to Claudius
investigating the riots of 49 A.D. He had certainly heard of the
resurrection and did not want any similar incidents. This decree was
probably made in connection with the Apostles' preaching of Jesus'
resurrection and the Jewish argument that the body had been stolen.
Historian Thallus wrote in 52 A.D. Although none of his texts remain,
his
work is cited by Julius Africanus' work, Chronography. Quoting Thallus
on
the crucifixion of Christ, Africanus states, "On the whole world, there
pressed a most fearful darkness, and the rocks were rent by an
earthquake,
and many places in Judea and other districts were thrown down."{4}
Thallus
calls this darkness, "as appears to me without reason, an eclipse of the
sun."{5}
All the discoveries made are consistent with the details in the
crucifixion
account given by the writers of the Gospels. These facts lend indirect
support for the biblical accounts of Jesus' crucifixion and that the
tomb
was empty.
Historical Accuracy of Luke:
At one time, scholars did not view Luke's historical accounts in his
Gospel
and Acts as accurate. There appeared to be no evidence for several
cities,
persons, and locations that he named in his works. However,
archaeological
advances have revealed that Luke was a very accurate historian and the
two
books he has authored remain accurate documents of history.
One of the greatest archaeologists is the late Sir William Ramsay. He
studied under the famous liberal German historical schools in the
mid-nineteenth century. Known for its scholarship, this school taught
that
the New Testament was not a historical document. With this premise,
Ramsay
investigated biblical claims as he searched through Asia Minor. What he
discovered caused him to reverse his initial view. He wrote:
"I began with a mind unfavorable to it [Acts], for the ingenuity and
apparent completeness of the Tubingen theory had at one time quite
convinced
me. It did not then in my line of life to investigate the subject
minutely;
but more recently I found myself often brought into contact with the
Book of
Acts as an authority for the topography, antiquities, and society of
Asia
Minor. It was gradually borne in upon me that in various details the
narrative showed marvelous truth."{6}
Luke's accuracy is demonstrated by the fact that he names key historical
figures in the correct time sequence as well as correct titles to
government
officials in various areas: Thessalonica, politarchs; Ephesus, temple
wardens; Cyprus, procouncil; and Malta, the first man of the island.
In Luke's announcement of Jesus' public ministry (Luke 3:1), he
mentions,
"Lysanius tetrarch of Abilene." Scholars questioned Luke's credibility
since
the only Lysanius known for centuries was a ruler of Chalcis who ruled
from
40-36 B.C. However an inscription dating to be in the time of Tiberius,
who
ruled from 14-37 A.D., was found recording a temple dedication which
names
Lysanius as the "tetrarch of Abila" near Damascus. This matches well
with
Luke'saccount.
In Acts 18:12-17, Paul was brought before Gallio, the proconsul of
Achaea.
Once again archaeology confirms this account. At Delphi an inscription
of a
letter from Emperor Claudius was discovered. In it he states, "Lucius
Junios
Gallio, my friend, and the proconsul of Achaia . . ."{7} Historians date
the
inscription to 52 A.D. which corresponds to the time of the apostle's
stay
in 51.
In Acts 19:22 and Romans 16:23, Erastus, a coworker of Paul, is named
the
Corinthian city treasurer. Archaeologists excavating a Corinthian
theatre in
1928 discovered an inscription. It reads, "Erastus in return for his
aedilship laid the pavement at his own expense." The pavement was laid
in 50
A.D. The designation of treasurer describes the work of a Corinthian
aedile.
In Acts 28:7, Luke gives Plubius, the chief man on the island of Malta,
the
title, "first man of the island." Scholars questioned this strange title
and
deemed it unhistorical. Inscriptions have recently been discovered on
the
island that indeed gives Plubius the title of "first man."
"In all, Luke names thirty-two countries, fifty-four cities, and nine
islands without error."{8} A. N. Sherwin-White states, "For Acts the
confirmation of historicity is overwhelming. . . . Any attempt to reject
its
basic historicity must now appear absurd. Roman historians have long
taken
it for granted."{9}
The Shroud of Turin:
The Gospels record that after His crucifixion Jesus was wrapped in a
long
linen cloth and placed in the tomb (Matt. 27:59). John records that when
Peter investigated the empty tomb, he found the burial cloth folded
neatly
next to where Christ once laid (20:6-7).
A linen shroud called the Shroud of Turin, on display at the Vatican,
has
been claimed to be that burial cloth. It is 14.25 feet long and 3.5 feet
wide. On it is an image with pierced wrists and ankles believed to be
that
of Christ.
The shroud first appeared for public display sometime after 1357 in
Lirey,
France. A knight named Geoffrey de Charny brought the shroud to France.
In
1453 de Charny's granddaughter gave the shroud to the Duke of Savoy who
then
in 1578 brought it to Turin, Italy. In 1983, it was willed to the
Vatican.
In 1898, Secondo Pia photographed the shroud and believed the image was
a
negative image like that of a photograph. This added to the mystery of
the
shroud since photography had not been invented during medieval times. In
1973 a group of experts confirmed the fact that no pigment of paint was
found even under magnification. For many, this was proof of the shroud's
authenticity.
The most extensive study was undertaken in 1977. An international team
of
Swiss, American, and Italian scientist studied the shroud for five days
at
the Savoy Royal Palace at Turin. They used six tons of equipment and 2.5
million dollars for their research. It has been one of the most
intensely
studied artifacts of all time.
The study could not determine the authenticity of the fabric.
Experiments
that followed proved the image contained blood as well as aragonite, a
particular calcium carbonate that is found in Jerusalem's first century
tombs. Swiss criminologist Max Frei found forty-eight samples of pollen,
of
which seven could have come from plants in Palestine. The weave of the
cloth
was herringbone twill, a style that existed in ancient times.
Although these findings supported the authenticity of the shroud, other
findings testified otherwise. In 1987, the shroud was carbon 14 tested
to
verify its date. Laboratories in Oxford, Zurich, and the University of
Arizona tested the cloth. The result indicated a fourteenth century date
for
the shroud. This conclusion continues to be challenged and future tests
are
sure to follow. Another problem is that coins minted by Pontius Pilate
were
placed over the eyes of the figure. This was not a Jewish custom, nor
does
it seem likely that Joseph of Arimathea or Nicodemus would have placed
on
Jesus' eyes a coin with the image of the leader who condemned him.
Despite the fourteenth century date, scientists are still unable to
explain
how the negative image was created. The shroud remains a mystery as well
as
a lesson for us as believers that we should not put our faith in
mysterious
articles.
Notes:
1. See "Authority of the Bible" at www.probe.docs/auth-bib.html.
2. Josephus, Book 18, Chapter 3:3
3. Tacitus, Annals, 15.44
4. Julius Africanus, Chronography, 18:1.
5. Ibid.
6. William Ramsay, St. Paul the Traveler and the Roman Citizen (Grand
Rapids, MI: Baker Books, 1982), 8.
7. John McRay, Archaeology and the New Testament (Grand Rapids, MI.:
Baker
Books, 1991), 227.
8. Norman Geisler, Baker Encyclopedia of Apologetics (Grand Rapids, MI.:
Baker Books, 1999), 47.
9. A. N. Sherwing-White, Roman Society and Roman Law in the New
Testament
(Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1963), 189.
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| User: "bluskie" |
|
| Title: Re: Biblical authenticity -- MORE LIES |
24 Aug 2004 07:51:56 PM |
|
|
"Pastor Frank" <PF@Christfirst.com> wrote in message news:<LHwWc.4531$Ur.4310@nntp-post.primus.ca>...
"Libertarius" <Libertarius@Nothing_But_The.Truth> wrote in message
news:412A0AA5.309B2464@Nothing_But_The.Truth...
Pastor Frank wrote:
MORE LIES BY THE FAKE "PASTOR".
I supplied a Bibliography for reference of MY opinions, "
Pastor Frank
since when do your opinions become facts pastor fake?
.
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| User: "bob young" |
|
| Title: Re: Biblical authenticity -- MORE LIES |
26 Aug 2004 12:49:33 AM |
|
|
bluskie wrote:
"Pastor Frank" <PF@Christfirst.com> wrote in message news:<LHwWc.4531$Ur.4310@nntp-post.primus.ca>...
"Libertarius" <Libertarius@Nothing_But_The.Truth> wrote in message
news:412A0AA5.309B2464@Nothing_But_The.Truth...
Pastor Frank wrote:
MORE LIES BY THE FAKE "PASTOR".
I supplied a Bibliography for reference of MY opinions, "
Pastor Frank
since when do your opinions become facts pastor fake?
Religionists cling on to their bibles like the proverbial drowning man and his straw
.
|
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| User: "Pastor Frank" |
|
| Title: Re: Biblical authenticity -- MORE LIES |
26 Aug 2004 11:34:37 AM |
|
|
"bob young" <alaspectrum@netvigator.com> wrote in message
news:412D79ED.385ADF8C@netvigator.com...
bluskie wrote:
"Pastor Frank" <PF@Christfirst.com> wrote in message
news:<LHwWc.4531$Ur.4310@nntp-post.primus.ca>...
"Libertarius" <Libertarius@Nothing_But_The.Truth> wrote in message
news:412A0AA5.309B2464@Nothing_But_The.Truth...
Pastor Frank wrote:
MORE LIES BY THE FAKE "PASTOR".
I supplied a Bibliography for reference of MY opinions, "
You don't.
Pastor Frank
since when do your opinions become facts pastor fake?
Religionists cling on to their bibles like the proverbial drowning man and
his straw
That's the nature of religion. We Christians regard the NT of the Bible,
like a judge regards his law-books. I don't see judges acting like
"drowning" people clutching their lawbooks for support. You have to be an
atheist trolling and baiting in religious NGs to believe that.
Considering the atheist subject line, you should have been posting this
to atheist NGs. I will post you over to them.
Pastor Frank
JUDGMENT
Jesus in Mt:18:7: Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must
needs be that offences come; but woe to that man by whom the offence
cometh!
Jesus in Mt:7:2: For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged:
and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
Mt:23:12: And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that
shall humble himself shall be exalted.
Rv:13:10: He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he
that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the
patience and the faith of the saints.
Jesus in Mt12:36-37: But I say unto you, That every idle word that men
shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment. For by
thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.
Jesus in Jn:8:15: Ye judge after the flesh; I judge no man.
Jesus in Lk:6:37: Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not,
and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:
1Cor:4:3: But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged
by you, or by any man's judgment: yea, I judge not mine own self.
1Cor:4:4: For I know nothing by myself; yet am I not hereby justified:
but He that judgeth me is my Father which is in Heaven.
Ephesians 2:8-9: For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not
of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should
boast.
Jms:2:24: Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by
faith only.
Pastor Frank
JUDGMENT
Jesus in Mt:18:7: Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must
needs be that offences come; but woe to that man by whom the offence
cometh!
Jesus in Mt:7:2: For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged:
and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
Mt:23:12: And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that
shall humble himself shall be exalted.
Rv:13:10: He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he
that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the
patience and the faith of the saints.
Jesus in Mt12:36-37: But I say unto you, That every idle word that men
shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment. For by
thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.
Jesus in Jn:8:15: Ye judge after the flesh; I judge no man.
Jesus in Lk:6:37: Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not,
and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:
1Cor:4:3: But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged
by you, or by any man's judgment: yea, I judge not mine own self.
1Cor:4:4: For I know nothing by myself; yet am I not hereby justified:
but He that judgeth me is my Father which is in Heaven.
Ephesians 2:8-9: For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not
of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should
boast.
Jms:2:24: Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by
faith only.
.
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| User: "JessHC" |
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| Title: Re: Biblical authenticity -- MORE LIES |
31 Aug 2004 12:23:20 PM |
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"Pastor Frank" <PF@Christfirst.com> wrote in message news:<nPqXc.3387$ln4.225@fe51.usenetserver.com>...
"bob young" <alaspectrum@netvigator.com> wrote in message
news:412D79ED.385ADF8C@netvigator.com...
bluskie wrote:
"Pastor Frank" <PF@Christfirst.com> wrote in message
news:<LHwWc.4531$Ur.4310@nntp-post.primus.ca>...
"Libertarius" <Libertarius@Nothing_But_The.Truth> wrote in message
news:412A0AA5.309B2464@Nothing_But_The.Truth...
Pastor Frank wrote:
MORE LIES BY THE FAKE "PASTOR".
I supplied a Bibliography for reference of MY opinions, "
You don't.
Pastor Frank
since when do your opinions become facts pastor fake?
Religionists cling on to their bibles like the proverbial drowning man and
his straw
That's the nature of religion. We Christians regard the NT of the Bible,
like a judge regards his law-books. I don't see judges acting like
"drowning" people clutching their lawbooks for support. You have to be an
atheist trolling and baiting in religious NGs to believe that.
Considering the atheist subject line, you should have been posting this
to atheist NGs. I will post you over to them.
Not surprizingly, you're too stupid to understand the difference
between "I don't believe in god" and "I don't agree with you."
.
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: Biblical authenticity -- MORE LIES |
26 Aug 2004 07:29:54 PM |
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On Thu, 26 Aug 2004 12:34:37 -0400 in episode
<nPqXc.3387$ln4.225@fe51.usenetserver.com> we saw our hero "Pastor Frank"
<PF@Christfirst.com>:
"bob young" <alaspectrum@netvigator.com> wrote in message
news:412D79ED.385ADF8C@netvigator.com...
bluskie wrote:
"Pastor Frank" <PF@Christfirst.com> wrote in message
news:<LHwWc.4531$Ur.4310@nntp-post.primus.ca>...
"Libertarius" <Libertarius@Nothing_But_The.Truth> wrote in message
news:412A0AA5.309B2464@Nothing_But_The.Truth...
Pastor Frank wrote:
MORE LIES BY THE FAKE "PASTOR".
I supplied a Bibliography for reference of MY opinions, "
You don't.
Pastor Frank
since when do your opinions become facts pastor fake?
Religionists cling on to their bibles like the proverbial drowning man
and
his straw
That's the nature of religion. We Christians regard the NT of the
Bible,
like a judge regards his law-books. I don't see judges acting like
"drowning" people clutching their lawbooks for support. You have to be an
atheist trolling and baiting in religious NGs to believe that.
Considering the atheist subject line, you should have been posting
this
to atheist NGs. I will post you over to them.
And I'll post him right back.
--
Mark K. Bilbo - a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
Alt-atheism website at: http://www.alt-atheism.org
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Often anger is a sign of engagement with life. People who
are angry are touched deeply by the events of their lives
and feel strongly about them....Anger is just a demand for
change, a passionate wish for things to be different....
And, as it was for me, it may be the first expression of
the will to live." -- Rachel Naomi Remen
.
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| User: "Puck Greenman" |
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| Title: Re: Biblical authenticity -- MORE LIES |
27 Aug 2004 06:42:41 AM |
|
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On Thu, 26 Aug 2004 13:49:33 +0800, bob young
<alaspectrum@netvigator.com> wrote:
bluskie wrote:
"Pastor Frank" <PF@Christfirst.com> wrote in message news:<LHwWc.4531$Ur.4310@nntp-post.primus.ca>...
"Libertarius" <Libertarius@Nothing_But_The.Truth> wrote in message
news:412A0AA5.309B2464@Nothing_But_The.Truth...
Pastor Frank wrote:
MORE LIES BY THE FAKE "PASTOR".
I supplied a Bibliography for reference of MY opinions, "
Pastor Frank
since when do your opinions become facts pastor fake?
Religionists cling on to their bibles like the proverbial drowning man and his straw
I suspect that the straw, would be the greater aid.
--
Puck Greenman
#162
BAAWA Knight.
Blesed is the self righteous xtian,
for his is the sure and certain knowledge
that no matter what load of tripe he
comes out with:
God told him to say it.
.
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| User: "Pastor Frank" |
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| Title: Re: Biblical authenticity -- MORE LIES |
29 Aug 2004 03:42:18 PM |
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"Puck Greenman" <puck@pooks.hill.fey> wrote in message
news:oe7ui0lb6i55smarcl3lhskuitjrb0rq6n@4ax.com...
On Thu, 26 Aug 2004 13:49:33 +0800, bob young
<alaspectrum@netvigator.com> wrote:
bluskie wrote:
"Pastor Frank" <PF@Christfirst.com> wrote in message
news:<LHwWc.4531$Ur.4310@nntp-post.primus.ca>...
"Libertarius" <Libertarius@Nothing_But_The.Truth> wrote in message
news:412A0AA5.309B2464@Nothing_But_The.Truth...
Pastor Frank wrote:
MORE LIES BY THE FAKE "PASTOR".
I supplied a Bibliography for reference of MY opinions, "
since when do your opinions become facts pastor fake?
Religionists cling on to their bibles like the proverbial drowning man
and his straw
I suspect that the straw, would be the greater aid.
Puck Greenman
#162
BAAWA Knight.
Blesed is the self righteous xtian,
for his is the sure and certain knowledge
that no matter what load of tripe he
comes out with:
God told him to say it.
Please post your atheism to atheist NGs. Thanks. I wll post you over to
them.
.
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| User: "JessHC" |
|
| Title: Re: Biblical authenticity -- MORE LIES |
31 Aug 2004 12:24:28 PM |
|
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"Pastor Frank" <PF@Christfirst.com> wrote in message news:<oQvYc.1272$RP5.567@fe51.usenetserver.com>...
"Puck Greenman" <puck@pooks.hill.fey> wrote in message
news:oe7ui0lb6i55smarcl3lhskuitjrb0rq6n@4ax.com...
On Thu, 26 Aug 2004 13:49:33 +0800, bob young
<alaspectrum@netvigator.com> wrote:
bluskie wrote:
"Pastor Frank" <PF@Christfirst.com> wrote in message
news:<LHwWc.4531$Ur.4310@nntp-post.primus.ca>...
"Libertarius" <Libertarius@Nothing_But_The.Truth> wrote in message
news:412A0AA5.309B2464@Nothing_But_The.Truth...
Pastor Frank wrote:
MORE LIES BY THE FAKE "PASTOR".
I supplied a Bibliography for reference of MY opinions, "
since when do your opinions become facts pastor fake?
Religionists cling on to their bibles like the proverbial drowning man
and his straw
I suspect that the straw, would be the greater aid.
Puck Greenman
#162
BAAWA Knight.
Blesed is the self righteous xtian,
for his is the sure and certain knowledge
that no matter what load of tripe he
comes out with:
God told him to say it.
Please post your atheism to atheist NGs. Thanks. I wll post you over to
them.
Please keep your superstitious ignorance out of our pristine atheist newsgroups.
.
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
|
| Title: Re: Biblical authenticity -- MORE LIES |
31 Aug 2004 12:30:44 PM |
|
|
On Sun, 29 Aug 2004 16:42:18 -0400 in episode
<oQvYc.1272$RP5.567@fe51.usenetserver.com> we saw our hero "Pastor Frank"
<PF@Christfirst.com>:
"Puck Greenman" <puck@pooks.hill.fey> wrote in message
news:oe7ui0lb6i55smarcl3lhskuitjrb0rq6n@4ax.com...
On Thu, 26 Aug 2004 13:49:33 +0800, bob young
<alaspectrum@netvigator.com> wrote:
bluskie wrote:
"Pastor Frank" <PF@Christfirst.com> wrote in message
news:<LHwWc.4531$Ur.4310@nntp-post.primus.ca>...
"Libertarius" <Libertarius@Nothing_But_The.Truth> wrote in message
news:412A0AA5.309B2464@Nothing_But_The.Truth...
Pastor Frank wrote:
MORE LIES BY THE FAKE "PASTOR".
I supplied a Bibliography for reference of MY opinions, "
since when do your opinions become facts pastor fake?
Religionists cling on to their bibles like the proverbial drowning man
and his straw
I suspect that the straw, would be the greater aid.
Puck Greenman
#162
BAAWA Knight.
Blesed is the self righteous xtian,
for his is the sure and certain knowledge that no matter what load of
tripe he
comes out with:
God told him to say it.
Please post your atheism to atheist NGs. Thanks. I wll post you over
to
them.
Do you *actually think your cross-posting "moves" a poster "out" of a
newsgroup?
--
Mark K. Bilbo - a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
Alt-atheism website at: http://www.alt-atheism.org
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Being surprised at the fact that the universe
is fine tuned for life is akin to a puddle being
surprised at how well it fits its hole"
-- Douglas Adams
.
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| User: "Bob" |
|
| Title: Re: Biblical authenticity -- MORE LIES |
31 Aug 2004 01:51:14 PM |
|
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"Mark K. Bilbo" <alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote in message
news:Ifydndafw6VeKKncRVn-oA@megapath.net...
..
Do you *actually think your cross-posting "moves" a poster "out" of a
newsgroup?
Considering that he kept his own group in, as well as a number of others, if
he thinks that
he is a total idiot, if he doesn't think that, he is just an [explative
deleted] flamer who wants
to make trouble.
.
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
|
| Title: Re: Biblical authenticity -- MORE LIES |
31 Aug 2004 02:34:09 PM |
|
|
On Tue, 31 Aug 2004 18:51:14 +0000 in episode
<CM3Zc.28165$Ot3.19289@twister.nyc.rr.com> we saw our hero "Bob"
<somebody@SOMEPLACE.COM>:
"Mark K. Bilbo" <alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote in message
news:Ifydndafw6VeKKncRVn-oA@megapath.net... .
Do you *actually think your cross-posting "moves" a poster "out" of a
newsgroup?
Considering that he kept his own group in, as well as a number of others,
if he thinks that
he is a total idiot, if he doesn't think that, he is just an [explative
deleted] flamer who wants
to make trouble.
With Flake, these are not necessarily mutually exclusive categories...
--
Mark K. Bilbo - a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
Alt-atheism website at: http://www.alt-atheism.org
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Being surprised at the fact that the universe
is fine tuned for life is akin to a puddle being
surprised at how well it fits its hole"
-- Douglas Adams
.
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| User: "Terrell D Lewis" |
|
| Title: Re: Biblical authenticity |
23 Aug 2004 12:46:23 AM |
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On Sun, 22 Aug 2004 23:08:58 -0400, "Pastor Frank"
<PF@Christfirst.com> wrote:
The first evidence comes from the four Gospels which, themselves, are proven
to be accurate.{1} Outside the biblical text are several witnesses as well.
Jewish historian Josephus (37 A.D.-100 A.D.) recorded the history of the
Jewish people in Palestine from 70 A.D. to 100 A.D. In his work Antiquities,
he states:
"Now there was about this time, Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call
him a man, for he was a doer of wonderful works, a teacher of such men as
receive the truth with pleasure. He drew over to him both many of the Jews
and many of the gentiles. He was the Christ and when Pilate, at the
suggestion of the principal men amongst us, had condemned him to the cross,
those that loved him at the first did not forsake him. For he appeared alive
again the third day, as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten
thousand other wonderful things concerning him; and the tribe of Christians,
so named from him, are not extinct to this day."{2}
Although he mentions Jesus in a sarcastic way, Josephus confirms the facts
that Jesus did do many great miracles, drew a following, was crucified, and
was proclaimed alive on the third day.
This is a well known fraud, added, probably by a CHristian, at a later
date.
©¿©
Terrell
.
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| User: "Pastor Frank" |
|
| Title: Re: Biblical authenticity |
23 Aug 2004 05:42:43 AM |
|
|
"Terrell D Lewis" <composer7NOSPAM@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:941ji0t94uesutk70l88sjktlp40ds1kq8@4ax.com...
On Sun, 22 Aug 2004 23:08:58 -0400, "Pastor Frank"
<PF@Christfirst.com> wrote:
The first evidence comes from the four Gospels which, themselves, are
proven
to be accurate.{1} Outside the biblical text are several witnesses as
well.
Jewish historian Josephus (37 A.D.-100 A.D.) recorded the history of the
Jewish people in Palestine from 70 A.D. to 100 A.D. In his work
Antiquities,
he states:
"Now there was about this time, Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to
call
him a man, for he was a doer of wonderful works, a teacher of such men as
receive the truth with pleasure. He drew over to him both many of the
Jews
and many of the gentiles. He was the Christ and when Pilate, at the
suggestion of the principal men amongst us, had condemned him to the
cross,
those that loved him at the first did not forsake him. For he appeared
alive
again the third day, as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten
thousand other wonderful things concerning him; and the tribe of
Christians,
so named from him, are not extinct to this day."{2}
Although he mentions Jesus in a sarcastic way, Josephus confirms the
facts
that Jesus did do many great miracles, drew a following, was crucified,
and
was proclaimed alive on the third day.
This is a well known fraud, added, probably by a CHristian, at a later
date.
Should we all be glad you added so much evidence for your assertion,
even if only to identify yourself as an atheist true-unbeliever?
But yes. ANY evidence other than the proverbial "Giant Talking Face In
The Sky" would be considered "a fraud" by atheists, an unsupported assertion
they invariably "add at a later date". LOL
Pastor Frank
THE GOSPEL OF JESUS CHRIST
Jesus in Matthew. 5:38 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye
for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: (Exodus 21:23-24)
39: But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall
smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.
40: And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let
him have thy cloke also.
41: And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain.
42: Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee
turn not thou away.
43: Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour,
and hate thine enemy.
44: But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do
good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you,
and persecute you;
45: That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for
he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on
the just and on the unjust.
46: For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? Do not even
the publicans the same?
47: And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? Do
not even the publicans so?
48: Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is
perfect.
---------------------
His teaching is a humongous step up from Judaism's Exodus 21:23-24
"If any harm follows, then you shall give life for life, eye for eye, tooth
for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn, wound for wound,
stripe for stripe."
.
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| User: "Terrell D Lewis" |
|
| Title: Re: Biblical authenticity |
23 Aug 2004 11:41:43 AM |
|
|
On Mon, 23 Aug 2004 06:42:43 -0400, "Pastor Frank"
<PF@Christfirst.com> wrote:
"Terrell D Lewis" <composer7NOSPAM@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:941ji0t94uesutk70l88sjktlp40ds1kq8@4ax.com...
On Sun, 22 Aug 2004 23:08:58 -0400, "Pastor Frank"
<PF@Christfirst.com> wrote:
The first evidence comes from the four Gospels which, themselves, are
proven
to be accurate.{1} Outside the biblical text are several witnesses as
well.
Jewish historian Josephus (37 A.D.-100 A.D.) recorded the history of the
Jewish people in Palestine from 70 A.D. to 100 A.D. In his work
Antiquities,
he states:
"Now there was about this time, Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to
call
him a man, for he was a doer of wonderful works, a teacher of such men as
receive the truth with pleasure. He drew over to him both many of the
Jews
and many of the gentiles. He was the Christ and when Pilate, at the
suggestion of the principal men amongst us, had condemned him to the
cross,
those that loved him at the first did not forsake him. For he appeared
alive
again the third day, as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten
thousand other wonderful things concerning him; and the tribe of
Christians,
so named from him, are not extinct to this day."{2}
Although he mentions Jesus in a sarcastic way, Josephus confirms the
facts
that Jesus did do many great miracles, drew a following, was crucified,
and
was proclaimed alive on the third day.
This is a well known fraud, added, probably by a CHristian, at a later
date.
Should we all be glad you added so much evidence for your assertion,
even if only to identify yourself as an atheist true-unbeliever?
But yes. ANY evidence other than the proverbial "Giant Talking Face In
The Sky" would be considered "a fraud" by atheists, an unsupported assertion
they invariably "add at a later date". LOL
I am not an atheist, the additions to Josephus is well known.
http://www.tertullian.org/rpearse/josephus/slavonic.htm
http://www.bible.org/docs/nt/topics/josephus.htm
©¿©
Terrell
.
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| User: "Roger Pearse" |
|
| Title: Re: Biblical authenticity |
24 Aug 2004 03:18:12 PM |
|
|
Terrell D Lewis <composer7NOSPAM@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message news:<g47ki0da1nu0sn26n97qlavmef5c1kes8v@4ax.com>...
On Mon, 23 Aug 2004 06:42:43 -0400, "Pastor Frank"
<PF@Christfirst.com> wrote:
"Terrell D Lewis" <composer7NOSPAM@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:941ji0t94uesutk70l88sjktlp40ds1kq8@4ax.com...
On Sun, 22 Aug 2004 23:08:58 -0400, "Pastor Frank"
<PF@Christfirst.com> wrote:
The first evidence comes from the four Gospels which, themselves, are
proven
to be accurate.{1} Outside the biblical text are several witnesses as
well.
Jewish historian Josephus (37 A.D.-100 A.D.) recorded the history of the
Jewish people in Palestine from 70 A.D. to 100 A.D. In his work
Antiquities,
he states:
"Now there was about this time, Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to
call
him a man, for he was a doer of wonderful works, a teacher of such men as
receive the truth with pleasure. He drew over to him both many of the
Jews
and many of the gentiles. He was the Christ and when Pilate, at the
suggestion of the principal men amongst us, had condemned him to the
cross,
those that loved him at the first did not forsake him. For he appeared
alive
again the third day, as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten
thousand other wonderful things concerning him; and the tribe of
Christians,
so named from him, are not extinct to this day."{2}
Although he mentions Jesus in a sarcastic way, Josephus confirms the
facts
that Jesus did do many great miracles, drew a following, was crucified,
and
was proclaimed alive on the third day.
This is a well known fraud, added, probably by a CHristian, at a later
date.
Should we all be glad you added so much evidence for your assertion,
even if only to identify yourself as an atheist true-unbeliever?
But yes. ANY evidence other than the proverbial "Giant Talking Face In
The Sky" would be considered "a fraud" by atheists, an unsupported assertion
they invariably "add at a later date". LOL
I am not an atheist, the additions to Josephus is well known.
http://www.tertullian.org/rpearse/josephus/slavonic.htm
Thank you for quoting my page. However as this contains details of the
manuscripts of the Old Slavonic version of the "Jewish War," rather
than the Testimonium Flavianum in "Antiquities," I'm not sure I
understand the relevance. The Old Slavonic is really a medieval
Russian history book, "The three captures of Jerusalem", of which the
last portion is taken mainly from Josephus, but with additions from
the bible, Antiquities, and John Malalas -- anything they had. There
are various stories around about this text, but since the English
translation only came out pretty recently, they are mainly founded on
lack of knowledge of the text and the manuscripts. After all, they
were all behind the Iron Curtain at the time! The author of those
notes in Russian, Meshchersky, himself spent time in Stalin's Gulag,
and had to write carefully.
On the TF: since the beginning of modern times, this mention of Jesus
in Josephus (the other is more or less unquestioned) has been regarded
with suspicion. Archbishop Ussher, one of the first patristic
scholars of the Church of England, who detected the interpolations in
the long recension of Ignatius, regarded it as dubious. The low-water
mark was around 1900, when it was generally regarded as an
interpolation. However that was during a revisionist period of
scholarship, and the conclusions reached then in many areas did not
generally survive the discoveries of papyri etc in the succeeding
decades. So it was also in Josephus studies, with the discovery of
additional witnesses.
Dr. Alice Whealey has written a paper on the history of the
scholarship of the TF, which is available online at the academic
Josephus site, <http://josephus.yorku.ca>. From this, and her
subsequent book (on Amazon), and the massive review of all scholarship
on the TF by J.Carleton Paget in the Journal of Theological Studies 52
(2001? - sadly not online), I learn that these days most scholars
consider the passage genuine but corrupt (not necessarily forged).
But substantial groups still stand out for 'all genuine' and 'all
interpolated'.
I have no special scholarly knowledge on this, so refer you to these
sources, and in particular Paget's enormous quantity of references.
The presumption that the TF owes its origin to ancient interpolation
by a Christian raises many issues, which do not seem to me to have
been explored. To me the additions look pagan if anything, treating
Jesus rather like a pagan sage. But what do I know?
HTH
All the best,
Roger Pearse
.
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| User: "Libertarius" |
|
| Title: Re: Biblical authenticity -- PROVED BY FRAUDULENT "EVIDENCE"??? |
23 Aug 2004 10:55:51 AM |
|
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Pastor Frank wrote:
"Terrell D Lewis" <composer7NOSPAM@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:941ji0t94uesutk70l88sjktlp40ds1kq8@4ax.com...
On Sun, 22 Aug 2004 23:08:58 -0400, "Pastor Frank"
<PF@Christfirst.com> wrote:
The first evidence comes from the four Gospels which, themselves, are
proven
to be acc | | | |