| Topic: |
Religions > Bible |
| User: |
"Bear" |
| Date: |
07 Dec 2005 03:23:15 PM |
| Object: |
Re: Bogus Missionary Arguments |
"Bear" <bigbear1wh@nativeweb.net> wrote in message
news:sfqdnQ_ROemQzwreRVn-rw@comcast.com...
: Bogus Missionary Arguments
:
: These questions or points are frequently used by missionaries.They are
bogus
: mainly because they haven't been well thought out.
:
: Q. Why don't you Jews accept Jesus?
:
: A. Why don't you missionaries accept Buddha or Mohammad?The question
assumes
: that we should "accept Jesus" (which means become Christian) and that we
: need to justify why we don't.This is backwards.The missionaries have the
: onus of showing why we should "accept" their Christian beliefs.The
question
: is often elaborated with more assumptions -- e.g. "Why do you reject your
: saviour, the Jewish Messiah, who died for you?" -- a question that has at
: least five unsupported suggestions.
:
: Q. Jesus was Jewish so why shouldn't you accept him.
:
: A. So were Einstein, Ben Gurion, Jack Benny and Woody Allan.(Woody still
is,
: not that it's anything for us to brag about.)Plus a few more.We know
better
: than to worship one of our own.
:
: Q. Many learned Orthodox Jews follow Jesus.
:
: A. Really?How fast does he run?(Sorry about that.)When you get details
about
: these supposed "learned Orthodox Jews," it usually turns out that they are
: not learned or Orthodox, and sometimes are not even Jewish.I suppose there
: are some genuinely orthodox Jews who have become apostates and embraced
: Christian beliefs, but to focus on them and ignore the vast majority is
like
: saying that the *****, because it has some nerve cells, is the thinking
organ
: of the body instead of the brain.
:
: Q. The Talmud (and or Jewish sages) say that ...
:
: A. Even when a missionary's citations of Jewish works are accurate, Talmud
: and the sages make up a huge, complex body of knowledge that compares to
the
: medical literature in its vastness.Anyone who wants to interpret Talmud
for
: me should tell me their educational and training qualifications to do
: so.Listing someone else's qualifications isn't helpful, because the
: missionary may be citing that someone else incorrectly or out of
: context.Giving spiritual advice on the basis of a random Talmudic quote is
: like telling someone how to manage diabetes on the basis that medical
texts
: say that prayer can be helpful to sick people.
:
: Citation of orthodox sources is actually irrelevant insofar as this
website
: is concerned because I'm discussing the Tanach only, not the orthodox
Jewish
: interpretation of the Tanach.Missionaries who want to discuss orthodox
: Judaism should ask someone like Moishe Shulman what he thinks.
:
: Besides which, I think there is something vaguely dishonest in trying to
: prove the meaning of a scripture by quoting people whose authority you
don't
: accept. (Copyright 2005. This means only that you should give me credit by
: including my E-mail (fiddlerzvi@att.net) and webpage
: (http://home.att.net/~fiddlerzvi/) address and this copyright notice if
you
: share this page with anyone.)
:
: --
: Bear
:
: There but for circumstances go I.
:
: It is always better to have no ideas than false ones; to believe nothing,
: than to believe what is wrong. -Thomas Jefferson
:
: Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be
: one, he must more approve the homage of reason than of blindfolded
: fear. -Thomas Jefferson
:
:
.
|
|
| User: "Opie" |
|
| Title: Re: Re: Bogus Missionary Arguments |
07 Dec 2005 03:31:05 PM |
|
|
On Wed, 7 Dec 2005 16:23:15 -0500, "Bear"
<bigbear1wh@nativeweb.net> wrote:
"Bear" <bigbear1wh@nativeweb.net> wrote in message
news:sfqdnQ_ROemQzwreRVn-rw@comcast.com...
: Bogus Missionary Arguments
:
: These questions or points are frequently used by
missionaries.They are
bogus
: mainly because they haven't been well thought
out.
:
: Q. Why don't you Jews accept Jesus?
:
: A. Why don't you missionaries accept Buddha or
Mohammad?The question
assumes
: that we should "accept Jesus" (which means
become Christian) and that we
: need to justify why we don't.This is
backwards.The missionaries have the
: onus of showing why we should "accept" their
Christian beliefs.The
question
: is often elaborated with more assumptions --
e.g. "Why do you reject your
: saviour, the Jewish Messiah, who died for you?"
-- a question that has at
: least five unsupported suggestions.
:
: Q. Jesus was Jewish so why shouldn't you accept
him.
:
: A. So were Einstein, Ben Gurion, Jack Benny and
Woody Allan.(Woody still
is,
: not that it's anything for us to brag
about.)Plus a few more.We know
better
: than to worship one of our own.
:
: Q. Many learned Orthodox Jews follow Jesus.
:
: A. Really?How fast does he run?(Sorry about
that.)When you get details
about
: these supposed "learned Orthodox Jews," it
usually turns out that they are
: not learned or Orthodox, and sometimes are not
even Jewish.I suppose there
: are some genuinely orthodox Jews who have become
apostates and embraced
: Christian beliefs, but to focus on them and
ignore the vast majority is
like
: saying that the *****, because it has some nerve
cells, is the thinking
organ
: of the body instead of the brain.
:
: Q. The Talmud (and or Jewish sages) say that ...
:
: A. Even when a missionary's citations of Jewish
works are accurate, Talmud
: and the sages make up a huge, complex body of
knowledge that compares to
the
: medical literature in its vastness.Anyone who
wants to interpret Talmud
for
: me should tell me their educational and training
qualifications to do
: so.Listing someone else's qualifications isn't
helpful, because the
: missionary may be citing that someone else
incorrectly or out of
: context.Giving spiritual advice on the basis of
a random Talmudic quote is
: like telling someone how to manage diabetes on
the basis that medical
texts
: say that prayer can be helpful to sick people.
:
: Citation of orthodox sources is actually
irrelevant insofar as this
website
: is concerned because I'm discussing the Tanach
only, not the orthodox
Jewish
: interpretation of the Tanach.Missionaries who
want to discuss orthodox
: Judaism should ask someone like Moishe Shulman
what he thinks.
:
: Besides which, I think there is something
vaguely dishonest in trying to
: prove the meaning of a scripture by quoting
people whose authority you
don't
: accept. (Copyright 2005. This means only that
you should give me credit by
: including my E-mail (fiddlerzvi@att.net) and
webpage
: (http://home.att.net/~fiddlerzvi/) address and
this copyright notice if
you
: share this page with anyone.)
:
: --
: Bear
:
: There but for circumstances go I.
:
: It is always better to have no ideas than false
ones; to believe nothing,
: than to believe what is wrong. -Thomas Jefferson
:
: Question with boldness even the existence of a
God; because, if there be
: one, he must more approve the homage of reason
than of blindfolded
: fear. -Thomas Jefferson
:
:
I think those missionaries get extra points for
each convert. I've heard some of them submit
conversion of mentally ill people for credit.
One of the reasons I use my signature that
follows.
People who want to share their religious
views with you almost never want you to
share your views with them.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Bear" |
|
| Title: Re: Re: Bogus Missionary Arguments |
07 Dec 2005 03:45:35 PM |
|
|
"Opie" wrote
: "Bear" wrote
:: Bogus Missionary Arguments
::
:: These questions or points are frequently used by
: missionaries.They are
: bogus
:: mainly because they haven't been well thought
: out.
::
:: Q. Why don't you Jews accept Jesus?
::
:: A. Why don't you missionaries accept Buddha or
: Mohammad?The question
: assumes
:: that we should "accept Jesus" (which means
: become Christian) and that we
:: need to justify why we don't.This is
: backwards.The missionaries have the
:: onus of showing why we should "accept" their
: Christian beliefs.The
: question
:: is often elaborated with more assumptions --
: e.g. "Why do you reject your
:: saviour, the Jewish Messiah, who died for you?"
: -- a question that has at
:: least five unsupported suggestions.
::
:: Q. Jesus was Jewish so why shouldn't you accept
: him.
::
:: A. So were Einstein, Ben Gurion, Jack Benny and
: Woody Allan.(Woody still
: is,
:: not that it's anything for us to brag
: about.)Plus a few more.We know
: better
:: than to worship one of our own.
::
:: Q. Many learned Orthodox Jews follow Jesus.
::
:: A. Really?How fast does he run?(Sorry about
: that.)When you get details
: about
:: these supposed "learned Orthodox Jews," it
: usually turns out that they are
:: not learned or Orthodox, and sometimes are not
: even Jewish.I suppose there
:: are some genuinely orthodox Jews who have become
: apostates and embraced
:: Christian beliefs, but to focus on them and
: ignore the vast majority is
: like
:: saying that the *****, because it has some nerve
: cells, is the thinking
: organ
:: of the body instead of the brain.
::
:: Q. The Talmud (and or Jewish sages) say that ...
::
:: A. Even when a missionary's citations of Jewish
: works are accurate, Talmud
:: and the sages make up a huge, complex body of
: knowledge that compares to
: the
:: medical literature in its vastness.Anyone who
: wants to interpret Talmud
: for
:: me should tell me their educational and training
: qualifications to do
:: so.Listing someone else's qualifications isn't
: helpful, because the
:: missionary may be citing that someone else
: incorrectly or out of
:: context.Giving spiritual advice on the basis of
: a random Talmudic quote is
:: like telling someone how to manage diabetes on
: the basis that medical
: texts
:: say that prayer can be helpful to sick people.
::
:: Citation of orthodox sources is actually
: irrelevant insofar as this
: website
:: is concerned because I'm discussing the Tanach
: only, not the orthodox
: Jewish
:: interpretation of the Tanach.Missionaries who
: want to discuss orthodox
:: Judaism should ask someone like Moishe Shulman
: what he thinks.
::
:: Besides which, I think there is something
: vaguely dishonest in trying to
:: prove the meaning of a scripture by quoting
: people whose authority you
: don't
:: accept. (Copyright 2005. This means only that
: you should give me credit by
:: including my E-mail (fiddlerzvi@att.net) and
: webpage
:: (http://home.att.net/~fiddlerzvi/) address and
: this copyright notice if
: you
:: share this page with anyone.)
::
: I think those missionaries get extra points for
: each convert. I've heard some of them submit
: conversion of mentally ill people for credit.
That's certainly a possibility.
--
Bear
There but for circumstances go I.
It is always better to have no ideas than false ones; to believe nothing,
than to believe what is wrong. -Thomas Jefferson
Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be
one, he must more approve the homage of reason than of blindfolded
fear. -Thomas Jefferson
.
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