Re: George W. Bush is a failed president.

Religions > Bible > Re: George W. Bush is a failed president.

LINK TO THIS PAGE

rating : 0 | 0

Page 1 of 2

Topic:	Religions > Bible
User:	"Glenn \Christian Mystic"
Date:	21 Nov 2006 11:04:48 AM
Object:	Re: George W. Bush is a failed president.

Am I to be shocked that things which happen in war, actually happen in war
???
"Passerby" <MrE @midnight.net> wrote in message
news:cqD0h.36493$X11.20902@bignews7.bellsouth.net...

"John Wesley Asquith" <johnasquith6@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:s0q5k293oidn2f5iso5ra1ulrq1lsi1ln0@4ax.com...
GW has killed more Americans and Iraqis than Saddam Hussein ever did.
His soul will rot and burn in Hell.

You don't believe it? GW is your hero? Just check out any credible
source you choose and you'll find the same answer.

What America needed was a leader. What we got, after Bush stole the
White House away from Gore, is an imbecile with an ego that will have
everlasting impact on the tranquility of this planet.

Their one last argument in favor of the misleader is that we haven't been
attacked again in over 5 years. (Unwitting dolts such as they are, they
of
course, haven't realized there are many ways from within, to "attack" the
homeland and its citizens. And none seem to stop and think about the
almost
3,000 U.S. troops that have been killed...and the 20,000 maimed/mutilated,
along with hundreds of thousands of Iraqi civilians...in a so-called war
having nothing to do with anything except to be used as a stepping stone
for
their looney ideology).

BOO! said the self-proclaimed protector/defender/ decider (none of which
apply) -- and they fell for it. And not one has ever questioned why the
world's superpower was so vulnerable and taken so completely by surprise.
Not a one has acknowledged the enormous failure...dereliction of duty?...
of
this little pretend prez to protect and defend. No pass. No excuses.
Botched on his watch. "....a cataclysmic Pearl-Harbor like event" comes
along, coincidentally made note of in the neoCON PNAC "bible", that it
would
take such an event for them to implement their "freedom and democracy"
pre-emptive war tour.

The fairytale Bush&Co. spun worked for a certain segment who still don't
get
it or realize they're pawns in the grand scheme and ideological dream that
has turned into a nightmare.

User: "WF Peifer"
Title: Re: George W. Bush is a failed president.	21 Nov 2006 05:38:14 PM

"Glenn (Christian Mystic)" <christianmystic@ev1.net> wrote in message
news:12m6bqqjpf5rba@corp.supernews.com...

Am I to be shocked that things which happen in war, actually happen in war
???

If you're among those who believed Rummy 3½ years ago when he said "It could
last six days, six weeks. I doubt six months," then you certainly SHOULD be
shocked. Yes, we all know that people die in wars. What we DON'T all seem
to know is that this war didn't NEED to happen, so all those deaths were
completely unnecessary. Right-tards are now crying that we can't pull out,
because then all those that have died will have died in vain. Guess what!
If we pull out they WILL have died in vain, but if we stay more will die,
and all those deaths will STILL be in vain, because the banner on the
aircraft carrier was wrong. It's shouldn't have been "Mission
Accomplished". It should have been "Nothing Accomplished". And when we
finally leave Iraq, whenever that great day may be, it'll STILL be "Nothing
Accomplished". The deaths of several thousand brave fighting men and women
should weigh for all time on the consciences of Bush, Cheney and every idiot
that voted to put these profiteering clowns into power.
.

User: "Glenn \Christian Mystic"
Title: Re: George W. Bush is a failed president.	28 Nov 2006 01:19:28 PM

"WF Peifer" <WFPeifer@NoSpam.com> wrote in message
news:5bSdnVeNyMh6EP7YnZ2dnUVZ_qidnZ2d@comcast.com...

"Glenn (Christian Mystic)" <christianmystic@ev1.net> wrote in message
news:12m6bqqjpf5rba@corp.supernews.com...

Am I to be shocked that things which happen in war, actually happen in
war ???

If you're among those who believed Rummy 3½ years ago when he said "It
could
last six days, six weeks. I doubt six months," then you certainly SHOULD
be
shocked.

Never was one of those... Neither am I a Republican, I am very independent.
I have voted both Republican and Democrat. Even voted for Clinton both
terms, and was upsit over Bush 'stealing' the election from Al Gore. But
would not stomach the man who called my family members (I was raised in a
military family, and served in the military myself) "Baby killers", the
traitor Kerry ever becoming President... So I was forced to vote for Bush
For me, like Lieberman (who I wanted to be President), it isn't an issue of
"personalities" but of removing the supporters of terrorism (like Saddam
whose government sent aid to the families of anti-Israel terrorists who blew
themselves up)
Hate Bush and his government all you want, but get some brains, they aren't
the issue.

Yes, we all know that people die in wars. What we DON'T all seem
to know is that this war didn't NEED to happen,

9-11 was the final straw, this war should have begun decades ago ! Terrorism
should never be allowed as a methology to attempt to bring about change.
Not to mention God's promise as concerning His blessings toward they who
bless Israel, and the curse on they who curse Israel

so all those deaths were completely unnecessary.....

<snipped more the enemies are good people who shouldn't suffer idiocy>
.

User: "Azaliah"
Title: Re: George W. Bush is a failed president.	21 Nov 2006 09:46:40 PM

On Tue, 21 Nov 2006 16:38:14 -0700, while bungee jumping, "WF
Peifer" <WFPeifer@NoSpam.com> shouted thusly:

"Glenn (Christian Mystic)" <christianmystic@ev1.net> wrote in message
news:12m6bqqjpf5rba@corp.supernews.com...

Am I to be shocked that things which happen in war, actually happen in war
???

If you're among those who believed Rummy 3½ years ago when he said "It could
last six days, six weeks. I doubt six months," then you certainly SHOULD be
shocked.

Why, considering that the first Gulf War lasted what,
5 minutes? :) How would it be unbelievable that we
could believe that this one might have been short?

Yes, we all know that people die in wars. What we
DON'T all seem to know is that this war didn't NEED
to happen

That's your opinion. Your viewpoint. And you are
certainly entitled to it and to speak it. But you
shouldn't pretend that just because you believe it,
that makes it absolute truth. You speak as if no one
could possibly have any other viewpoint, or if they
do, then they are wrong, because you say so.
And you might say, "But look at this! And this!".
But so can those on the other side of the issue.
So... so what? :)
And before you try to engage me in the politics of it,
I don't get involved in that. I was merely making a
single point about your statement and I wasn't giving
an opinion about whether or not I feel that it is correct.
--
Azaliah (ats-al-yaw'-hoo) "Jah has reserved"
<((>< <((>< <((><
"Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth."
- John 17:17
..
.

User: "WF Peifer"
Title: Re: George W. Bush is a failed president.	21 Nov 2006 10:07:15 PM

"Azaliah" <_giantwaffle_@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:anh7m2t9h6orock9nt5h1lk6rucagfr0ka@4ax.com...

On Tue, 21 Nov 2006 16:38:14 -0700, while bungee jumping, "WF
Peifer" <WFPeifer@NoSpam.com> shouted thusly:

If you're among those who believed Rummy 3½ years ago when he said "It

could

last six days, six weeks. I doubt six months," then you certainly SHOULD

shocked.

Why, considering that the first Gulf War lasted what,
5 minutes? :) How would it be unbelievable that we
could believe that this one might have been short?

Because the objective in the first Gulf War was only to evict Saddam from
Kuwait. We didn't have, as an objective, the congquering and long-term
occupation of a country whose citizens largely despised us. Oh! That's
right! Rummy also said we'd be greeted as liberators, with candy and
flowers!

Yes, we all know that people die in wars. What we
DON'T all seem to know is that this war didn't NEED
to happen

The facts speak for themselves. Our objective, at the outset, was
supposedly to relieve Saddam of his WMD, because Bush claimed that Saddam
wouldn't let the weapons inspectors in. But the weapons inspectors were
already there, and Saddam had come into compliance with the U.N.
resolutions. They were there, that is, until Bush gave them a day's notice
to leave before we invaded, skipping the formality of going back to the U.N.
and Congress for further authorization as he had promised he would. And, as
it turned out, there WERE no WMD, so what was ostensibly our initial reason
to go in was no reason at all. So the "reason" for attacking changed. The
White House's story changed to wipe out a hotbed of terrorists. But there
was no significant terrorist presence until AFTER we completed "major combat
operations", and then by giving Saddam's entire army pink slips, telling
them to go home, and "take your damned rifles with you" we created several
thousands of NEW terrorists . . . "insurgents" . . . for us to do battle
with. Then when no terrorist training camps were discovered to go with the
WMD that didn't exist, our supposed reason for going in changed again. Then
we were there to spread democracy to a people who really wanted a theocracy.
Please, do tell. What made all of this necessary?

And you might say, "But look at this! And this!".
But so can those on the other side of the issue.
So... so what? :)

I'm willing to look at rational reasons for going into Iraq, and maybe I can
be convinced that this really WAS necessary, but none of the various reasons
given by the White House holds water. Until someone can provide a rational
explanation of what made the sacrifice of young men and women even CLOSE to
a necessity, I'll maintain that THE FACTS indicate that there was no
justification for this war.

And before you try to engage me in the politics of it,
I don't get involved in that. I was merely making a
single point about your statement and I wasn't giving
an opinion about whether or not I feel that it is correct.

My statement was that this war was unnecessary. Nobody has shown anything
to anyone that proves it WAS necessary, so I stand by my statement.
.

User: "Glenn \Christian Mystic"
Title: Re: George W. Bush is a failed president.	28 Nov 2006 01:24:13 PM

"WF Peifer" <WFPeifer@NoSpam.com> wrote in message
news:HcidnXkSPf5pUf7YnZ2dnUVZ_tqdnZ2d@comcast.com...

"Azaliah" <_giantwaffle_@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:anh7m2t9h6orock9nt5h1lk6rucagfr0ka@4ax.com...

On Tue, 21 Nov 2006 16:38:14 -0700, while bungee jumping, "WF
Peifer" <WFPeifer@NoSpam.com> shouted thusly:

If you're among those who believed Rummy 3½ years ago when he said "It
could
last six days, six weeks. I doubt six months," then you certainly SHOULD
be
shocked.

Why, considering that the first Gulf War lasted what,
5 minutes? :) How would it be unbelievable that we
could believe that this one might have been short?

Conquest has *never* been the goal, nor is it now.

Oh! That's right! Rummy also said we'd be greeted as liberators, with
candy and
flowers!

Geeesh get your mind off your hate for the Bush administration, and you
might actually develope a *brain*
<snipped, the rest>
.

User: "Raymond"
Title: Re: George W. Bush is a failed president.	28 Nov 2006 03:41:52 PM

Glenn (Christian Mystic) wrote:

"WF Peifer" <WFPeifer@NoSpam.com> wrote in message
news:HcidnXkSPf5pUf7YnZ2dnUVZ_tqdnZ2d@comcast.com...

"Azaliah" <_giantwaffle_@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:anh7m2t9h6orock9nt5h1lk6rucagfr0ka@4ax.com...

On Tue, 21 Nov 2006 16:38:14 -0700, while bungee jumping, "WF
Peifer" <WFPeifer@NoSpam.com> shouted thusly:

If you're among those who believed Rummy 3=BD years ago when he said =

"It

could
last six days, six weeks. I doubt six months," then you certainly SHO=

ULD

be
shocked.

Why, considering that the first Gulf War lasted what,
5 minutes? :) How would it be unbelievable that we
could believe that this one might have been short?

Because the objective in the first Gulf War was only to evict Saddam fr=

Kuwait. We didn't have, as an objective, the congquering and long-term
occupation of a country whose citizens largely despised us.

Conquest has *never* been the goal, nor is it now.

Oh! That's right! Rummy also said we'd be greeted as liberators, with
candy and
flowers!

Geeesh get your mind off your hate for the Bush administration, and you
might actually develope a *brain*

<snipped, the rest>

George W. Bush is not only a failed president. He is also a failed
human being.
Bush Jr.'s Skeleton Closet
George Bush likes to present himself as a straight-talking, regular
guy. But it's an act
Bush is a burned out drunk and "coker".
The point here is that, based on Bush's recent behavior, he could very
well be a "dry drunk."
"Treason is like diamonds; there is nothing to be made by the small
trader".
- Douglas William Jerrold
Click on the allegation of your choice:
-- His top aides exposed an undercover CIA agent to silence critics
-- Lies, deception and coverups to push the war in Iraq
-- Convicted of drunk driving. Lied repeatedly to cover up his arrest.
-- Lying under oath. Bush & staff stop investigation of contributor's
huge funeral home company.
-- Avoided Vietnam and Skipped Out on his National Guard Service
-- Texas government corruption: State $$ for campaign funders &
business cronies
-- Cocaine: felony drug use, vile hypocrisy, and a hushed up arrest?
-- His "young and irresponsible" behavior: sex, drugs and (gasp!) rock
and roll?
-- Thin skinned: censors his critics with police, lawyers, $$$
-- Character: Spoiled rich kid living off his family's name and
reputation
-- Made millions on insider business deals, for little work
-- -- Deal #1. Personal Profits from Failing Oil Companies
-- -- -- -- Easy Money From Odd Sources
-- -- -- -- A Surprise Deal From Bahrain
-- -- -- -- Access to the President and National Security Adviser for
his foreign business partner
-- -- Deal #2. Selling Oil Stocks Just Before Iraq Invaded: lucky guess
or illegal insider trading?
-- -- Deal #3. A Big Slice of a Baseball Team
-- -- -- -- Hypocrisy: using government coercion to make his private
fortune
http://www.realchange.org/bushjr.htm
SEE:
Addiction, Brain Damage and the President
"Dry Drunk" Syndrome and
George W. Bush
by KATHERINE van WORMER
Katherine van Wormer is a Professor of Social Work at the University of
Northern Iowa Co-author of Addiction Treatment: A Strengths Perspective
(2002). She can be reached at:

http://www.counterpunch.org/wormer1011.html
.

User: "Glenn \Christian Mystic\ christianmystic1@peoplepc"
Title: Re: George W. Bush is a failed president.	02 Dec 2006 08:37:21 PM

"Raymond" <Bluerhymer@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1164750111.906068.312610@h54g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Glenn (Christian Mystic) wrote:

"WF Peifer" <WFPeifer@NoSpam.com> wrote in message
news:HcidnXkSPf5pUf7YnZ2dnUVZ_tqdnZ2d@comcast.com...

"Azaliah" <_giantwaffle_@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:anh7m2t9h6orock9nt5h1lk6rucagfr0ka@4ax.com...

On Tue, 21 Nov 2006 16:38:14 -0700, while bungee jumping, "WF
Peifer" <WFPeifer@NoSpam.com> shouted thusly:

<snip>

Geeesh get your mind off your hate for the Bush administration, and you
might actually develope a *brain*

<snipped, the rest>
George W. Bush is not only a failed president. He is also a failed
human being. Bush Jr.'s Skeleton Closet

Agreed, we had him as our governor

George Bush likes to present himself as a straight-talking, regular guy.
But it's an act
Bush is a burned out drunk and "coker".

So it has been said

The point here is that, based on Bush's recent behavior, he could very
well be a "dry drunk."
"Treason is like diamonds; there is nothing to be made by the small
trader".
- Douglas William Jerrold
Click on the allegation of your choice:

The man I wanted to be President, instead of Bush, was Lieberman a
Democrate, pro-War On Terrorism !
Get it ? My issue is *the War*(I agree with it) couldn't care less about
Bush (or *his* reasons{lies} or whatever) ! The issue is the war, try to
think beyond your hate for Bush, it clouds your judgment.
<snipped, more *hate Bush*>
.

User: "David Morgan \MAMS"
Title: Re: George W. Bush is a failed president.	03 Dec 2006 06:23:12 PM

"Glenn (Christian Mystic)" <christianmystic1@peoplepc>...

Get it ? My issue is *the War*(I agree with it)

That's very sad to hear, Glenn.
.

User: "CB"
Title: Re: George W. Bush is a failed president.	02 Dec 2006 11:34:06 PM

On Sat, 2 Dec 2006 20:37:21 -0600, "Glenn $Christian Mystic$"
<christianmystic1@peoplepc> wrote:

"Raymond" <Bluerhymer@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1164750111.906068.312610@h54g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Glenn (Christian Mystic) wrote:

"WF Peifer" <WFPeifer@NoSpam.com> wrote in message
news:HcidnXkSPf5pUf7YnZ2dnUVZ_tqdnZ2d@comcast.com...

"Azaliah" <_giantwaffle_@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:anh7m2t9h6orock9nt5h1lk6rucagfr0ka@4ax.com...

On Tue, 21 Nov 2006 16:38:14 -0700, while bungee jumping, "WF
Peifer" <WFPeifer@NoSpam.com> shouted thusly:

<snip>

Geeesh get your mind off your hate for the Bush administration, and you
might actually develope a *brain*

<snipped, the rest>

George W. Bush is not only a failed president. He is also a failed
human being. Bush Jr.'s Skeleton Closet

Agreed, we had him as our governor

George Bush likes to present himself as a straight-talking, regular guy.
But it's an act
Bush is a burned out drunk and "coker".

So it has been said

The man I wanted to be President, instead of Bush, was Lieberman a
Democrate, pro-War On Terrorism !

Get it ? My issue is *the War*(I agree with it) couldn't care less about
Bush (or *his* reasons{lies} or whatever) ! The issue is the war, try to
think beyond your hate for Bush, it clouds your judgment.

<snipped, more *hate Bush*>

The only message the democrats have is "hate Bush".
They have nothing else.

Acts 26:8 "Why is it considered incredible among you
people if God does raise the dead?

.

User: "Glenn \Christian Mystic\ christianmystic1@peoplepc"
Title: Re: George W. Bush is a failed president.	03 Dec 2006 08:42:58 AM

"CB" <country2000@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:pco4n2dp3g8aju2qfeiqdg991esdvn9u8d@4ax.com...

On Sat, 2 Dec 2006 20:37:21 -0600, "Glenn $Christian Mystic$"
<christianmystic1@peoplepc> wrote:

"Raymond" <Bluerhymer@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1164750111.906068.312610@h54g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Glenn (Christian Mystic) wrote:

"WF Peifer" <WFPeifer@NoSpam.com> wrote in message
news:HcidnXkSPf5pUf7YnZ2dnUVZ_tqdnZ2d@comcast.com...

"Azaliah" <_giantwaffle_@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:anh7m2t9h6orock9nt5h1lk6rucagfr0ka@4ax.com...

On Tue, 21 Nov 2006 16:38:14 -0700, while bungee jumping, "WF
Peifer" <WFPeifer@NoSpam.com> shouted thusly:

<snip>
The man I wanted to be President, instead of Bush, was Lieberman a
Democrate, pro-War On Terrorism !
Get it ? My issue is *the War*(I agree with it) couldn't care less about
Bush (or *his* reasons{lies} or whatever) ! The issue is the war, try to
think beyond your hate for Bush, it clouds your judgment.

<snipped, more *hate Bush*>

The only message the democrats have is "hate Bush". They have nothing
else.

Such is obvious !

Acts 26:8 "Why is it considered incredible among you
people if God does raise the dead?

User: "Azaliah"
Title: Re: George W. Bush is a failed president.	21 Nov 2006 10:33:50 PM

On Tue, 21 Nov 2006 21:07:15 -0700, while bungee jumping, "WF
Peifer" <WFPeifer@NoSpam.com> shouted thusly:

Why, considering that the first Gulf War lasted what,
5 minutes? :) How would it be unbelievable that we
could believe that this one might have been short?

Because the objective in the first Gulf War was only to evict Saddam from
Kuwait.

Not true. It was to kill him. We missed. :)

We didn't have, as an objective, the congquering and long-term
occupation of a country whose citizens largely despised us.

Occupation long term was not the plan this time either.
We were to get him and take over as quickly as possible
and get out.
You are looking at what happened and then claiming that
this was the plan. It wasn't. But the plan changed, once
things didn't work out as easy as we had planned.

Yes, we all know that people die in wars. What we
DON'T all seem to know is that this war didn't NEED
to happen

The facts speak for themselves.

This statement is arrogance on your part.
Gee, I guess no "facts", except the ones you want to present,
are actually "facts", right?
As I said, I wasn't even saying that you were right or wrong,
nor was I looking to debate it, but hey, you just couldn't
help yourself, could you. (:

And you might say, "But look at this! And this!".
But so can those on the other side of the issue.
So... so what? :)

I'm willing to look at rational reasons for going into Iraq

No you're not and you proved that above. You have your
view and nothing anyone says is going to change that.

My statement was that this war was unnecessary. Nobody has shown anything
to anyone that proves it WAS necessary, so I stand by my statement.

Again, that is a claim and I know as well as you do,
that people have presented reasons to you and you
rejected them out of hand, whether they were valid
or not.
We're done here.
--
Azaliah (ats-al-yaw'-hoo) "Jah has reserved"
<((>< <((>< <((><
"Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth."
- John 17:17
..
.

User: "WF Peifer"
Title: Re: George W. Bush is a failed president.	21 Nov 2006 11:23:31 PM

"Azaliah" <_giantwaffle_@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:ogk7m2dg1osekpiv6taickqqg5qjhllm73@4ax.com...

Why, considering that the first Gulf War lasted what,
5 minutes? :) How would it be unbelievable that we
could believe that this one might have been short?

Because the objective in the first Gulf War was only to evict Saddam from
Kuwait.

Not true. It was to kill him. We missed. :)

Gee, that's not Bush 41 said at the time . . . or even to this day. Do you
have better information than former President Bush?

We didn't have, as an objective, the congquering and long-term
occupation of a country whose citizens largely despised us.

Occupation long term was not the plan this time either.
We were to get him and take over as quickly as possible
and get out.

Colin Powell warned BEFORE we went in that if we went in we'd "break it",
and if we broke it, we'd "own it". There were a few heads in the
administration that knew going in, taking out Saddam and getting out was not
a "wham, bam, thank you ma'am" operation. Of course, they were ignored at
the time and later fired for being right. In fact, nobody outside the
administration with any knowledge of Middle East affairs predicted a short
and/or bloodless occupation. Either a) the administration was such a bunch
of knuckleheads that they didn't believe Colin Powell, the CIA, the NSA,
Richard Clark, George H.W. Bush, Norman Schwarzkopf, Kofi Annan, Vladimir
Putin or any of about a dozen well-qualified individuals, or b) they KNEW
this would be a mess, which was exactly what they wanted. Take your choice.
Either way, nothing indicates necessity.

You are looking at what happened and then claiming that
this was the plan. It wasn't. But the plan changed, once
things didn't work out as easy as we had planned.

Actually, from what the dozen or so generals who were involved at the
beginning and have since resigned have to say, there WAS no plan, and that
was the problem.

Yes, we all know that people die in wars. What we
DON'T all seem to know is that this war didn't NEED
to happen

The facts speak for themselves.

This statement is arrogance on your part.

Actually, that's a direct quote from General Anthony Zinni, the former
Commander-in-Chief of the United States Central Command, regarding the
matter. But I guess he's earned the right to be arrogant.

Gee, I guess no "facts", except the ones you want to present,
are actually "facts", right?

Since every "fact" that's come from the White House regarding this whole
affair has proven to be a baldfaced lie, I'll stick to the "facts" that have
come from those who were there and quit because the Bushies insisted on
ignoring "facts" or got fired for not being "yes men", since their "facts"
haven't been proven to be wrong yet.

As I said, I wasn't even saying that you were right or wrong,
nor was I looking to debate it, but hey, you just couldn't
help yourself, could you. (:

Nope. When someone calls well-documented evidence "my opinion", and puts
things that have proven to be pure fabrications on the same level as an
equal and alternate "opinion", I can't resist the temptation to call them
"wrong".

And you might say, "But look at this! And this!".
But so can those on the other side of the issue.
So... so what? :)

I'm willing to look at rational reasons for going into Iraq

No you're not and you proved that above. You have your
view and nothing anyone says is going to change that.

Quite to the contrary, I've changed my views on the matter several times.
When the invasion first started, like 80% of the rest of the country, I
believed we were ridding the world of a menace with the potential and the
will to do us harm. Then I found out that the administration lied to us
about Saddam's capabilities, and my support began to wane. Then I saw the
death toll for U.S. troops begin to approach the number that died in the
9/11 terrorist attack, and I began to wonder if the war was worth the price
we were paying. Then the very generals who Bush had claimed were telling
him that they didn't need more troops began resigning their commissions, and
started coming public with the fact that they had repeatedly requested
higher levels of personnel, and those requests were denied by Rummy and
Bush. My position is changable, but the facts that could change it now
would have to come from a source that hasn't lost all credibility yet, so
nothing Bush can say can change my mind.

My statement was that this war was unnecessary. Nobody has shown

anything

to anyone that proves it WAS necessary, so I stand by my statement.

Again, that is a claim and I know as well as you do,
that people have presented reasons to you and you
rejected them out of hand, whether they were valid
or not.

Nobody has presented anything to reject, except for tired rationalizations
that better minds than mine have already blown to smithereens.

We're done here.

Maybe. I just wish we were done THERE.
.

User: "Cazador"
Title: Re: George W. Bush is a failed president.	21 Nov 2006 11:10:21 PM

Azaliah wrote:

On Tue, 21 Nov 2006 16:38:14 -0700, while bungee jumping, "WF
Peifer" <WFPeifer@NoSpam.com> shouted thusly:

"Glenn (Christian Mystic)" <christianmystic@ev1.net> wrote in message
news:12m6bqqjpf5rba@corp.supernews.com...

Am I to be shocked that things which happen in war, actually happen in=

war

???

If you're among those who believed Rummy 3=BD years ago when he said "It=

could

last six days, six weeks. I doubt six months," then you certainly SHOULD=

shocked.

Why, considering that the first Gulf War lasted what,
5 minutes? :) How would it be unbelievable that we
could believe that this one might have been short?

Becsuse George H. W. Bush had a bit of common sense. He knew that to
subdue Baghdad would be a bloody, protracted, hideously expensive and
thankless task. He also had good advisors. Colin Powell and Brent
Scocroft believed that it would turn out badly and knew that the risk
was not worth any alleged advantage.

Yes, we all know that people die in wars. What we
DON'T all seem to know is that this war didn't NEED
to happen

Exactly. It was a purely elective war brought upon us by a President
ignorant of the history of the Middle-East for motives which involved
unspoken conflicts of interest. Such wars are almost always bad ideas.
And they are contrary to American tradition. Washington and John Q.
Adams both warned against such gratuitous "foreign entanglements".

We've suffered over 20,000 casualties. We're hundreds of billions in
the red. The war that these people thought might last between six weeks
and six months has now lasted longer than WW II and is getting worse,
much worse as time goes on. None of the openly stated rationales for it
were true, e.g., WMDs. And none of the unstated rationales for it,
e=2Eg., divying up the world's second largest oil reserves and knocking
out one of Israel's enemies, has yet been admitted.

And you might say, "But look at this! And this!".
But so can those on the other side of the issue.
So... so what? :)

I'm sorry but foreign policy should not be put in the hands of amateurs
or people with unstated motives or people with religious conflicts of
interest. The President and his chief officers are sworn to represent
all the people and to support the Constitution, not the Old Testament.

IF you are an Evangelical and voted Republican since 2000 because you
thought that was the more Christian way to approach the matter, you did
engage in the politics of it. And you've done that without having taken
into account the suffering of the Iraqi people much less our own. It
would have been much better if you had clung to the worldly truths
embodied in common sense and experience. We as a nation need to keep
sectarianism out of both politics and foreign policy.

Azaliah (ats-al-yaw'-hoo) "Jah has reserved"

<((>< <((>< <((><

"Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth."
- John 17:17
.

User: "Glenn \Christian Mystic"
Title: Re: George W. Bush is a failed president.	28 Nov 2006 01:20:39 PM

Thank you Dave !
"Azaliah" <_giantwaffle_@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:anh7m2t9h6orock9nt5h1lk6rucagfr0ka@4ax.com...

On Tue, 21 Nov 2006 16:38:14 -0700, while bungee jumping, "WF
Peifer" <WFPeifer@NoSpam.com> shouted thusly:

"Glenn (Christian Mystic)" <christianmystic@ev1.net> wrote in message
news:12m6bqqjpf5rba@corp.supernews.com...

Am I to be shocked that things which happen in war, actually happen in
war
???

If you're among those who believed Rummy 3½ years ago when he said "It
could
last six days, six weeks. I doubt six months," then you certainly SHOULD
be
shocked.

Why, considering that the first Gulf War lasted what,
5 minutes? :) How would it be unbelievable that we
could believe that this one might have been short?

Yes, we all know that people die in wars. What we
DON'T all seem to know is that this war didn't NEED
to happen

That's your opinion. Your viewpoint. And you are
certainly entitled to it and to speak it. But you
shouldn't pretend that just because you believe it,
that makes it absolute truth. You speak as if no one
could possibly have any other viewpoint, or if they
do, then they are wrong, because you say so.

And you might say, "But look at this! And this!".
But so can those on the other side of the issue.
So... so what? :)

And before you try to engage me in the politics of it,
I don't get involved in that. I was merely making a
single point about your statement and I wasn't giving
an opinion about whether or not I feel that it is correct.

--

Azaliah (ats-al-yaw'-hoo) "Jah has reserved"

<((>< <((>< <((><

"Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth."
- John 17:17
.

User: "AYBABTU"
Title: Re: George W. Bush is a failed president.	21 Nov 2006 11:58:14 AM

In article <12m6bqqjpf5rba@corp.supernews.com>,
"Glenn $Christian Mystic$" <christianmystic@ev1.net> wrote:

Am I to be shocked that things which happen in war, actually happen in war
???

"Passerby" <MrE @midnight.net> wrote in message
news:cqD0h.36493$X11.20902@bignews7.bellsouth.net...

georgie is a failed prez. actually Cheney is the failed president.
--
"In the future you may be here, but will your dreams?"
.

User: "Glenn \Christian Mystic"
Title: Re: George W. Bush is a failed president.	28 Nov 2006 01:04:38 PM

Geargie isn't the issue, these people's hate for Bush clouds their judgment,
the issue is the War On Terrorism, and all that it involves.
"AYBABTU" <georgek@humboldt1.com> wrote in message
news:georgek-F9A9C9.09581421112006@sn-ip.vsrv-sjc.supernews.net...

In article <12m6bqqjpf5rba@corp.supernews.com>,
"Glenn $Christian Mystic$" <christianmystic@ev1.net> wrote:

Am I to be shocked that things which happen in war, actually happen in
war
???

"Passerby" <MrE @midnight.net> wrote in message
news:cqD0h.36493$X11.20902@bignews7.bellsouth.net...

"John Wesley Asquith" <johnasquith6@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:s0q5k293oidn2f5iso5ra1ulrq1lsi1ln0@4ax.com...
GW has killed more Americans and Iraqis than Saddam Hussein ever did.
His soul will rot and burn in Hell.

You don't believe it? GW is your hero? Just check out any credible
source you choose and you'll find the same answer.

What America needed was a leader. What we got, after Bush stole the
White House away from Gore, is an imbecile with an ego that will have
everlasting impact on the tranquility of this planet.

Their one last argument in favor of the misleader is that we haven't
been
attacked again in over 5 years. (Unwitting dolts such as they are,
they
of
course, haven't realized there are many ways from within, to "attack"
the
homeland and its citizens. And none seem to stop and think about the
almost
3,000 U.S. troops that have been killed...and the 20,000
maimed/mutilated,
along with hundreds of thousands of Iraqi civilians...in a so-called
war
having nothing to do with anything except to be used as a stepping
stone
for
their looney ideology).

BOO! said the self-proclaimed protector/defender/ decider (none of
which
apply) -- and they fell for it. And not one has ever questioned why
the
world's superpower was so vulnerable and taken so completely by
surprise.
Not a one has acknowledged the enormous failure...dereliction of
duty?...
of
this little pretend prez to protect and defend. No pass. No excuses.
Botched on his watch. "....a cataclysmic Pearl-Harbor like event"
comes
along, coincidentally made note of in the neoCON PNAC "bible", that it
would
take such an event for them to implement their "freedom and democracy"
pre-emptive war tour.

The fairytale Bush&Co. spun worked for a certain segment who still
don't
get
it or realize they're pawns in the grand scheme and ideological dream
that
has turned into a nightmare.

georgie is a failed prez. actually Cheney is the failed president.

--
"In the future you may be here, but will your dreams?"

User: "Incitatus"
Title: Re: George W. Bush is a failed president.	28 Nov 2006 03:15:57 PM

In article <12mp1fhli9bfcf2@corp.supernews.com>, "Glenn $Christian
Mystic$" <christianmystic@ev1.net> wrote:

Geargie isn't the issue, these people's hate for Bush clouds their judgment,
the issue is the War On Terrorism, and all that it involves.

There is no war on terrorism in Iraq
Its a civil war and a very bad one at that
Hadn't you noticed?
As for the terrorists - many are the partisans and rebels that the West
once propped up as a religious barrier to socialist change in the muslim
world
"As ye sow - so shall ye reap"
We are paying for that error
.

User: "Glenn \Christian Mystic\ christianmystic1@peoplepc"
Title: Re: George W. Bush is a failed president.	02 Dec 2006 08:58:13 PM

"Incitatus" <Senate@Rome.com> wrote in message
news:Senate-2911060816120001@192.168.0.2...

In article <12mp1fhli9bfcf2@corp.supernews.com>, "Glenn $Christian
Mystic$" <christianmystic@ev1.net> wrote:

Geargie isn't the issue, these people's hate for Bush clouds their
judgment,
the issue is the War On Terrorism, and all that it involves.

There is no war on terrorism in Iraq

Yeah, I know. So who is attacking us ?

Its a civil war and a very bad one at that

That it is, haven't you noticed the Terrorist tactics they are using against
each other ?

Hadn't you noticed?

I noticed that they are car bombing, blowing up civilian buildings, you know
the the kinds of tactics *terrorists* use !
People like to compare Iraq to VietNam, well here is a thought from another
post of mine to leave you with....
Every time I see the South Viet Nam flags flying near our China Towns, I
cry
for the ones who died enmass in boats trying to escape.
Our ship rescued a number of them in '76, sadly though in most were nothing
but *dead bodies*, bullet ridden, starved, and or baked to death in the
heat...
If I had had the power, I would have filmed what we saw, and forced every
American to watch it, 'specially the hippies, and flower children.
When you start something, with promises, finish it, and keep your word !
The mistake was our cowardly withdraw deserting the people who were
depending on us to protect them
Excuse me while I puke from the memory.

As for the terrorists - many are the partisans and rebels that the West
once propped up as a religious barrier to socialist change in the muslim
world "As ye sow - so shall ye reap" We are paying for that error

User: "CB"
Title: Re: George W. Bush is a failed president.	02 Dec 2006 11:32:33 PM

On Sat, 2 Dec 2006 20:58:13 -0600, "Glenn $Christian Mystic$"
<christianmystic1@peoplepc> wrote:

"Incitatus" <Senate@Rome.com> wrote in message
news:Senate-2911060816120001@192.168.0.2...

In article <12mp1fhli9bfcf2@corp.supernews.com>, "Glenn $Christian
Mystic$" <christianmystic@ev1.net> wrote:

Geargie isn't the issue, these people's hate for Bush clouds their
judgment,
the issue is the War On Terrorism, and all that it involves.

There is no war on terrorism in Iraq

Yeah, I know. So who is attacking us ?

Its a civil war and a very bad one at that

That it is, haven't you noticed the Terrorist tactics they are using against
each other ?

Hadn't you noticed?

I noticed that they are car bombing, blowing up civilian buildings, you know
the the kinds of tactics *terrorists* use !

People like to compare Iraq to VietNam, well here is a thought from another
post of mine to leave you with....

Every time I see the South Viet Nam flags flying near our China Towns, I
cry
for the ones who died enmass in boats trying to escape.

Our ship rescued a number of them in '76, sadly though in most were nothing
but *dead bodies*, bullet ridden, starved, and or baked to death in the
heat...

If I had had the power, I would have filmed what we saw, and forced every
American to watch it, 'specially the hippies, and flower children.

When you start something, with promises, finish it, and keep your word !

The mistake was our cowardly withdraw deserting the people who were
depending on us to protect them

I agree.
It seems we should have learned something.
Some people think that only Americans deserve freedom.
Some people hate Bush so much that it doesn't matter how many people have to
die as long as it's "them not us".
We need to finish the job but the cowardly democrats are in power now.

Excuse me while I puke from the memory.

Acts 26:8 "Why is it considered incredible among you
people if God does raise the dead?

.

User: "Sid9"
Title: Re: George W. Bush is a failed president.	03 Dec 2006 12:11:51 AM

"CB" <country2000@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:l3o4n2lt6sqnemlnobbveqchcjv6qqvopc@4ax.com...

On Sat, 2 Dec 2006 20:58:13 -0600, "Glenn $Christian Mystic$"
<christianmystic1@peoplepc> wrote:

"Incitatus" <Senate@Rome.com> wrote in message
news:Senate-2911060816120001@192.168.0.2...

In article <12mp1fhli9bfcf2@corp.supernews.com>, "Glenn $Christian
Mystic$" <christianmystic@ev1.net> wrote:

Geargie isn't the issue, these people's hate for Bush clouds their
judgment,
the issue is the War On Terrorism, and all that it involves.

There is no war on terrorism in Iraq

Yeah, I know. So who is attacking us ?

Its a civil war and a very bad one at that

That it is, haven't you noticed the Terrorist tactics they are using
against
each other ?

Hadn't you noticed?

I noticed that they are car bombing, blowing up civilian buildings, you
know
the the kinds of tactics *terrorists* use !

People like to compare Iraq to VietNam, well here is a thought from
another
post of mine to leave you with....

Every time I see the South Viet Nam flags flying near our China Towns, I
cry
for the ones who died enmass in boats trying to escape.

Our ship rescued a number of them in '76, sadly though in most were
nothing
but *dead bodies*, bullet ridden, starved, and or baked to death in the
heat...

If I had had the power, I would have filmed what we saw, and forced every
American to watch it, 'specially the hippies, and flower children.

When you start something, with promises, finish it, and keep your word !

The mistake was our cowardly withdraw deserting the people who were
depending on us to protect them

I agree.
It seems we should have learned something.
Some people think that only Americans deserve freedom.
Some people hate Bush so much that it doesn't matter how many people have
to
die as long as it's "them not us".
We need to finish the job but the cowardly democrats are in power now.

Don't you "get" it?
They don't want us there.

.

User: "Glenn \Christian Mystic\ christianmystic1@peoplepc"
Title: Re: George W. Bush is a failed president.	03 Dec 2006 08:49:07 AM

"Sid9" <bkustin@tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
news:HUtch.5384$%u3.4083@tornado.tampabay.rr.com...

"CB" <country2000@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:l3o4n2lt6sqnemlnobbveqchcjv6qqvopc@4ax.com...

<snip>

I agree. It seems we should have learned something.
Some people think that only Americans deserve freedom.
Some people hate Bush so much that it doesn't matter how many people have
to die as long as it's "them not us".
We need to finish the job but the cowardly democrats are in power now.

Don't you "get" it? They don't want us there.

The terrorist don't want us there, correct... But the government which the
Iraqis elected into power wants us to *stay* until they can handle things
without us.
Seems you missed that part !
.

User: "CB"
Title: Re: George W. Bush is a failed president.	04 Dec 2006 09:09:35 PM

On Sun, 03 Dec 2006 06:11:51 GMT, "Sid9" <bkustin@tampabay.rr.com> wrote:

"CB" <country2000@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:l3o4n2lt6sqnemlnobbveqchcjv6qqvopc@4ax.com...

On Sat, 2 Dec 2006 20:58:13 -0600, "Glenn $Christian Mystic$"
<christianmystic1@peoplepc> wrote:

"Incitatus" <Senate@Rome.com> wrote in message
news:Senate-2911060816120001@192.168.0.2...

In article <12mp1fhli9bfcf2@corp.supernews.com>, "Glenn $Christian
Mystic$" <christianmystic@ev1.net> wrote:

Geargie isn't the issue, these people's hate for Bush clouds their
judgment,
the issue is the War On Terrorism, and all that it involves.

There is no war on terrorism in Iraq

Yeah, I know. So who is attacking us ?

Its a civil war and a very bad one at that

That it is, haven't you noticed the Terrorist tactics they are using
against
each other ?

Hadn't you noticed?

I noticed that they are car bombing, blowing up civilian buildings, you
know
the the kinds of tactics *terrorists* use !

People like to compare Iraq to VietNam, well here is a thought from
another
post of mine to leave you with....

Every time I see the South Viet Nam flags flying near our China Towns, I
cry
for the ones who died enmass in boats trying to escape.

Our ship rescued a number of them in '76, sadly though in most were
nothing
but *dead bodies*, bullet ridden, starved, and or baked to death in the
heat...

If I had had the power, I would have filmed what we saw, and forced every
American to watch it, 'specially the hippies, and flower children.

When you start something, with promises, finish it, and keep your word !

The mistake was our cowardly withdraw deserting the people who were
depending on us to protect them

I agree.
It seems we should have learned something.
Some people think that only Americans deserve freedom.
Some people hate Bush so much that it doesn't matter how many people have
to
die as long as it's "them not us".
We need to finish the job but the cowardly democrats are in power now.

Don't you "get" it?
They don't want us there.

Define "they".

Acts 26:8 "Why is it considered incredible among you
people if God does raise the dead?

.

User: "Glenn \Christian Mystic\ christianmystic1@peoplepc"
Title: Re: George W. Bush is a failed president.	03 Dec 2006 08:53:41 AM

"CB" <country2000@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:l3o4n2lt6sqnemlnobbveqchcjv6qqvopc@4ax.com...

On Sat, 2 Dec 2006 20:58:13 -0600, "Glenn $Christian Mystic$"
<christianmystic1@peoplepc> wrote:

"Incitatus" <Senate@Rome.com> wrote in message
news:Senate-2911060816120001@192.168.0.2...

In article <12mp1fhli9bfcf2@corp.supernews.com>, "Glenn $Christian
Mystic$" <christianmystic@ev1.net> wrote:

<snip>

....If I had had the power, I would have filmed what we saw, and forced
every
American to watch it, 'specially the hippies, and flower children.
When you start something, with promises, finish it, and keep your word !
The mistake was our cowardly withdraw deserting the people who were
depending on us to protect them

I agree.

Thank you.

It seems we should have learned something.
Some people think that only Americans deserve freedom.
Some people hate Bush so much that it doesn't matter how many people have
to
die as long as it's "them not us".
We need to finish the job but the cowardly democrats are in power now.

Amen !

Excuse me while I puke from the memory.

Acts 26:8 "Why is it considered incredible among you
people if God does raise the dead?

User: "CB"
Title: Re: George W. Bush is a failed president.	28 Nov 2006 07:42:07 PM

On Wed, 29 Nov 2006 08:15:57 +1100,

(Incitatus) wrote:

There is no war on terrorism in Iraq

Its a civil war and a very bad one at that

Hadn't you noticed?

So you've been to Iraq.
Please tell us of your first hand experience.
Or have you just been watching NBC?

Acts 26:8 "Why is it considered incredible among you
people if God does raise the dead?

.

User: "Glenn \Christian Mystic\ christianmystic1@peoplepc"
Title: Re: George W. Bush is a failed president.	02 Dec 2006 09:05:00 PM

LOL :-) I have family members fighting over there
Thanks !
"CB" <country2000@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:r9ppm2dlg2nes2c89h3vkm6g62vd11uv0o@4ax.com...

On Wed, 29 Nov 2006 08:15:57 +1100,

(Incitatus) wrote:

There is no war on terrorism in Iraq

Its a civil war and a very bad one at that

Hadn't you noticed?

So you've been to Iraq.
Please tell us of your first hand experience.
Or have you just been watching NBC?

Acts 26:8 "Why is it considered incredible among you
people if God does raise the dead?

User: "Doug Bashford, Fresno"
Title: Repubs - ideology ... Dems - philosophy	22 Nov 2006 01:18:00 PM

It's often said that Repubs deal with problems and set agendas
via ideology, while Dems deal with problems and set agendas via
philosophy.
How would such a thing express itself in the real world?
Glenn (Christian Mystic) said about:
Re: George W. Bush is a failed president.

Am I to be shocked that things which happen in war,
actually happen in war ???

And why in this particular war, are the things that actually
happen in war censored by the admin/media? Such as coffins,
funerals, and true, often gory war footage? Isn't that form
of distorting actual reality, a form of propaganda?
.............snip

And none seem to stop and think about the almost 3,000 U.S. troops
that have been killed...and the 20,000 maimed/mutilated, along with
hundreds of thousands of Iraqi civilians...in a so-called war
having nothing to do with anything except to be used as a stepping stone
for their looney ideology).

BushCo uses it for their ideology?

BOO! said the self-proclaimed protector/defender/ decider.
-- and they fell for it.

........

The fairytale Bush&Co. spun worked for a certain segment
get who still don't get it or realize they're pawns in the grand
scheme and ideological dream that has turned into a nightmare.

An ideological dream?
ideology : noun
1 : visionary theorizing
2 a : a systematic body of concepts especially about human
life or culture
b : a manner or the content of thinking characteristic of an
individual, group, or culture
c : the integrated assertions, theories and aims that constitute
a sociopolitical program
- ide·ol·o·gist /-jist/ noun
....so all of the above, especially all of 2, especially 2c.
philosophy : noun
1 a (1) : all learning exclusive of technical precepts and
practical arts
(2) : the sciences and liberal arts exclusive of medicine,
law, and theology <a doctor of philosophy>
(3) : the 4-year college course of a major seminary
(2) : ETHICS c : a discipline comprising as its core logic,
aesthetics, ethics, metaphysics, and epistemology
2 a : pursuit of wisdom
b : a search for a general understanding of values and reality
by chiefly speculative rather than observational means
c : an analysis of the grounds of and concepts expressing
fundamental beliefs
3 a : a system of philosophical concepts
b : a theory underlying or regarding a sphere of activity
or thought <the philosophy of war>
4 a : the most basic beliefs, concepts, and attitudes of an
individual or group
b : calmness of temper and judgment befitting a philosopher
....so all of the above, especially (2) : ETHICS, and 2c analysis.
Quick definitions (epistemology)
# noun: the philosophical theory of knowledge
epistemology : noun
the study or a theory of the nature and grounds of knowledge
especially with reference to its limits and validity

ideologue : noun
zealous supporter of ideology: a particularly zealous or
doctrinaire supporter of an ideology
Quiz:
It's often said that Repubs deal with problems and set agendas
via ideology. Aren't such people more or less just begging
to be lead around by feelsgood propaganda? Begging to say,
be lied into a war, sin, or any other thing? All you need
to do is use the "proper" buzz words? That would make you
"one of us," a good guy to be defended, or in the extreme,
a good guy to be followed. All conflicting opinions must
be from "bad guys." If so, or no, Why?
1) In contrast, wouldn't those who deal with problems and set
agendas via philosophy tend to be critical thinkers, and
better recognize say, being lead into war or sin via lies,
or any other thing? If so, or no, Why?
2) Would a "3-Rs" only education lend itself better to a
population of unquestioning worker drones?
2) Would a "3-Rs" only education lend itself better to a
population of ideology and worker unquestioning soldiers?
3) What advantages might a government working for the
very rich have in promoting a "basics only" (and
of course, job skills) education? Name three or more
advantages of the "cheap" education.
Your thoughts?

--Doug
** "Fascism should more properly be called
** corporatism, since it is the merger of state
** and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini.
.

User: "•R L Measures"
Title: Re: Repubs - ideology ... Dems - philosophy	23 Nov 2006 05:04:25 AM

In article <FfydnexGUvD1P_nYnZ2dnUVZ_u-dnZ2d@pghconnect.com>,
playing@home.edu (Doug Bashford, Fresno) wrote:

It's often said that Repubs deal with problems and set agendas
via ideology, while Dems deal with problems and set agendas via
philosophy.

How would such a thing express itself in the real world?

Glenn (Christian Mystic) said about:
Re: George W. Bush is a failed president.

Am I to be shocked that things which happen in war,
actually happen in war ???

And why in this particular war, are the things that actually
happen in war censored by the admin/media? ...

*** Because folks who claim to be getting their orders from "God" really
look bad when they badly ***** up.
.

User: "Glenn \Christian Mystic\ christianmystic1@peoplepc"
Title: Re: Repubs - ideology ... Dems - philosophy	02 Dec 2006 10:20:13 PM

Viet Nam, think about it, the media lost that war for us.
"Doug Bashford, Fresno" <playing@home.edu> wrote in message
news:FfydnexGUvD1P_nYnZ2dnUVZ_u-dnZ2d@pghconnect.com...

It's often said that Repubs deal with problems and set agendas
via ideology, while Dems deal with problems and set agendas via
philosophy.

How would such a thing express itself in the real world?

Glenn (Christian Mystic) said about:
Re: George W. Bush is a failed president.

Am I to be shocked that things which happen in war,
actually happen in war ???

BushCo uses it for their ideology?

BOO! said the self-proclaimed protector/defender/ decider.
-- and they fell for it.

........

The fairytale Bush&Co. spun worked for a certain segment
get who still don't get it or realize they're pawns in the grand
scheme and ideological dream that has turned into a nightmare.

An ideological dream?

ideology : noun
1 : visionary theorizing
2 a : a systematic body of concepts especially about human
life or culture
b : a manner or the content of thinking characteristic of an
individual, group, or culture
c : the integrated assertions, theories and aims that constitute
a sociopolitical program
- ide·ol·o·gist /-jist/ noun

...so all of the above, especially all of 2, especially 2c.

philosophy : noun
1 a (1) : all learning exclusive of technical precepts and
practical arts
(2) : the sciences and liberal arts exclusive of medicine,
law, and theology <a doctor of philosophy>
(3) : the 4-year college course of a major seminary
(2) : ETHICS c : a discipline comprising as its core logic,
aesthetics, ethics, metaphysics, and epistemology
2 a : pursuit of wisdom
b : a search for a general understanding of values and reality
by chiefly speculative rather than observational means
c : an analysis of the grounds of and concepts expressing
fundamental beliefs
3 a : a system of philosophical concepts
b : a theory underlying or regarding a sphere of activity
or thought <the philosophy of war>
4 a : the most basic beliefs, concepts, and attitudes of an
individual or group
b : calmness of temper and judgment befitting a philosopher

...so all of the above, especially (2) : ETHICS, and 2c analysis.

Quick definitions (epistemology)
# noun: the philosophical theory of knowledge

epistemology : noun
the study or a theory of the nature and grounds of knowledge
especially with reference to its limits and validity

ideologue : noun
zealous supporter of ideology: a particularly zealous or
doctrinaire supporter of an ideology

Quiz:

It's often said that Repubs deal with problems and set agendas
via ideology. Aren't such people more or less just begging
to be lead around by feelsgood propaganda? Begging to say,
be lied into a war, sin, or any other thing? All you need
to do is use the "proper" buzz words? That would make you
"one of us," a good guy to be defended, or in the extreme,
a good guy to be followed. All conflicting opinions must
be from "bad guys." If so, or no, Why?

1) In contrast, wouldn't those who deal with problems and set
agendas via philosophy tend to be critical thinkers, and
better recognize say, being lead into war or sin via lies,
or any other thing? If so, or no, Why?

2) Would a "3-Rs" only education lend itself better to a
population of unquestioning worker drones?

2) Would a "3-Rs" only education lend itself better to a
population of ideology and worker unquestioning soldiers?

3) What advantages might a government working for the
very rich have in promoting a "basics only" (and
of course, job skills) education? Name three or more
advantages of the "cheap" education.

Your thoughts?

--Doug

** "Fascism should more properly be called
** corporatism, since it is the merger of state
** and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini.

User: "Ray Fischer"
Title: Re: Repubs - ideology ... Dems - philosophy	03 Dec 2006 12:29:33 AM

Glenn $Christian Mystic$ <christianmystic1@peoplepc> wrote:

Viet Nam, think about it, the media lost that war for us.

If the US had just killed 10,000,000 people instead of just 5,000,000
people then maybe the US would have "won".
Murderous lunatic.
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
.