| Topic: |
Religions > Bible |
| User: |
"Millennial Reign" |
| Date: |
23 Dec 2005 08:02:14 PM |
| Object: |
Re: help with a question about the Gospels |
On 23 Dec 2005 15:08:44 -0800, swampmidget wrote:
Why is there a seeming discrepancy in the unerring word of God?
Because you have been listening to the ignorant, instead of considering
what Scripture actually says.
According to Matthew, Jesus was born in a house in Bethlehem (Matthew
2:11).
First false supposition:
Scripture does not mention that he was born in a house. Instead, it says
that this was where Jesus was *after* his birth when the Magi came from the
east and searched for him. He was born in a manger (Luke 2:7,12,16).
They immediately left in a panic to Egypt because an angel told
them that Herod was going to try to kill Jesus (Matthew 2:13).
Second false supposition:
Scripture indicates, by the fact that Herod ordered that all boys two years
old (or less) to be killed, that the flight to Egypt has a potential
timeframe of as much as 2 years *after* the birth of Jesus (Matthew 2:16),
and in no way implies immediate flight at the time of birth.
Afterwards, they are going to return to Bethlehem, but decide to go to
Nazareth instead to avoid danger (Matthew 2:22-23).
Clarification:
Returning to Israel, he was afraid to go to Judea, and being warned by God
came to Galilee, settling in Nazareth.
But when Herod died, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared in a dream to
Joseph in Egypt, saying, "Rise, take the child and his mother and go to the
land of Israel, for those who sought the child's life are dead." And he
rose and took the child and his mother and went to the land of Israel. But
when he heard that Archelaus was reigning over Judea in place of his father
Herod, he was afraid to go there, and being warned in a dream he withdrew
to the district of Galilee. And he went and lived in a city called
Nazareth, that what was spoken by the prophets might be fulfilled: "He
shall be called a Nazarene." [Matthew 2:19-23 ESV]
According to Luke, Mary and Joseph were from Nazareth and went to
Bethlehem only for a census (Luke 2:4). Instead of being born in a
house, Jesus was born in a manger because there was no room in an Inn
(Luke 2:7).
A repeat of the first false supposition:
Scripture does not mention that he was born in a house. Instead, it says
that this was where Jesus was *after* his birth when the Magi came from the
east and searched for him. He was born in a manger, in Bethlehem. (Luke
2:7,12,16).
After the birth, they waited only for Mary to go through
ritual purification, whereupon they went to Jerusalem to sacrifice two
birds (Luke 2:22-24).
Question:
Exactly how long after the birth of Jesus does Scripture clearly and
explicitly mention that it was before their visit to Jerusalem?
Consider the following verses;
It came about in due time, after Hannah had conceived, that she gave birth
to a son; and she named him Samuel, saying, "Because I have asked him of
the LORD." Then the man Elkanah went up with all his household to offer to
the LORD the yearly sacrifice and pay his vow. But Hannah did not go up,
for she said to her husband, "I will not go up until the child is weaned;
then I will bring him, that he may appear before the LORD and stay there
forever." Elkanah her husband said to her, "Do what seems best to you
Remain until you have weaned him; only may the LORD confirm His word." So
the woman remained and nursed her son until she weaned him. Now when she
had weaned him, she took him up with her, with a three-year-old bull and
one ephah of flour and a jug of wine, and brought him to the house of the
LORD in Shiloh, although the child was young. Then they slaughtered the
bull, and brought the boy to Eli. She said, "Oh, my lord! As your soul
lives, my lord, I am the woman who stood here beside you, praying to the
LORD. For this boy I prayed, and the LORD has given me my petition which I
asked of Him." So I have also dedicated him to the LORD; as long as he
lives he is dedicated to the LORD." And he worshiped the LORD there.
[1 Samuel 1:20-28 NASB]
Now His parents went to Jerusalem every year at the Feast of the Passover.
[Luke 2:41 NASB]
After that, they went immediately home to
Nazareth (Luke 2:39).
And when they had performed all things according to the law of the Lord,
they returned into Galilee, to their own city Nazareth.
[Luke 2:39 KJV]
Which record is correct?
Both, as they detail different aspects of the same events.
Perhaps you have been deceived by the self-seeking and prideful man-made
doctrines of false teachers like Spong.
.
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| User: "swampmidget" |
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| Title: Re: help with a question about the Gospels |
23 Dec 2005 08:24:37 PM |
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Thank you!
The questions I raised stem from a program on theHistory Channel
special (I should have known better lol).
Thanks for the straight forward answer. Glad to see there's at least
one sane, educated Christian posting to this newsgroup.
.
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| User: "Your Name Here=Harvey" |
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| Title: Re: help with a question about the Gospels |
24 Dec 2005 12:50:23 AM |
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In article <1135391077.276140.159120@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
webmaster@101click.com says...
Thank you!
The questions I raised stem from a program on theHistory Channel
special (I should have known better lol).
Thanks for the straight forward answer. Glad to see there's at least
one sane, educated Christian posting to this newsgroup.
You have to begin your own journey of discovery, about what is true and
not true? about the Bible.
You either accept what you are told, or shown, or don't accept it, and
seek answers elsewhere.
I think people gravitate towards that which interests them,
ie. you see a documentary, and you either believe it or not.
And when you look at the documentaries you liked - you'll see they
take a certain side to things, a certain interpretation.
eg.
I saw a documentary titled "Did Jesus Die?" this was shown on Easter
about 5? years ago. I actually agree with most of the ideas put
forward in it.
eg. That Jesus did not die on the cross, but was near death, and taken
off the Cross because the Centurion thought he was dead, and Joseph of
Arithmea wanted possession of the body - so that he could begin the
process of resusicitation, that he was told was necessary to do -
his assistants knowing the process which had to be done.
That Jesus survived the crucifixion, left to travel to India with his
mother Mary. Mary died en route because of old age, and Jesus settled in
Kashmir, where he lived to an old age, and died there. Is buried there.
Why do I believe all this?
Well they showed the tomb in Kashmir, whose foot imprints showed that he
was crucified, and he was buried in the Jewish tradition.
Never believing in the resurrection, resusicitation is more probable
and likely.
Anyway after this documentary, some years later, I came across references
to the Talmud Jmmanuel manuscript/text which says much of the above.
The above documentary made no mention about the Talmud Jmmanuel.
To me, this seems to be the more truthful, believable material, instead
of the Bible and what christianity says.
You have only to read Ed T Martin's book 'King of Travellers - Jesus' Lost
Years in India' or know what it is about, to satisfy the need for
actual evidence and references to exact places in the above version of
events.
I don't believe in the claims and promises of Christianity, and that
of the Bible, and it's interpretation.
There is too much there, not of information, but purely that of
propaganda - ie. dogma and rhetoric.
Once you read the Talmud Jmmanuel text, you can decide if it makes more
sense than that of Biblical text?
Harvey
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| User: "Ananias917" |
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| Title: Re: help with a question about the Gospels |
24 Dec 2005 12:25:22 AM |
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On 23 Dec 2005 18:24:37 -0800, "swampmidget"
<webmaster@101click.com> spake thusly:
Thank you!
The questions I raised stem from a program on theHistory Channel
special (I should have known better lol).
Thanks for the straight forward answer. Glad to see there's at least
one sane, educated Christian posting to this newsgroup.
<LOUD APPLAUSE HEARD FOR 15 MINUTES>
I would like to cheer for you, for being the first
person that I have seen in the seven years (approx)
that I have been in usenet, who brought up a
supposed "problem" in the Bible and wasn't
an atheist in disguise! :)
With your name and the question, it did indeed
seem to be an atheist. I haven't run across
Christians choosing names like, "swampmidget". :)
So I apologize for jumping to the wrong conclusion.
--
"And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house;
and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the
Lord, even Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way
as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest
receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost."
- Acts 9:17
Would a loving God send people to Hell?
http://godandscience.org/apologetics/hell.html
.
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| User: "Feather Forestwalker" |
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| Title: Re: help with a question about the Gospels |
24 Dec 2005 12:27:03 AM |
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"Ananias917" <_-_Ananias917_-_@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:h9qpq1595kc04bqvut517dnire41jujpvc@4ax.com...
On 23 Dec 2005 18:24:37 -0800, "swampmidget"
<webmaster@101click.com> spake thusly:
Thank you!
The questions I raised stem from a program on theHistory Channel
special (I should have known better lol).
Thanks for the straight forward answer. Glad to see there's at least
one sane, educated Christian posting to this newsgroup.
<LOUD APPLAUSE HEARD FOR 15 MINUTES>
I would like to cheer for you, for being the first
person that I have seen in the seven years (approx)
that I have been in usenet, who brought up a
supposed "problem" in the Bible and wasn't
an atheist in disguise! :)
With your name and the question, it did indeed
seem to be an atheist. I haven't run across
Christians choosing names like, "swampmidget". :)
So I apologize for jumping to the wrong conclusion.
Hey, Dave, you're just a wee bit jaded, eh? ;)
Sorry I missed your call yesterday. . .and today was busy busy busy.
What the heck are you doing up so late, anyway? *LOL*
Feather
--
"And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house;
and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the
Lord, even Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way
as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest
receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost."
- Acts 9:17
Would a loving God send people to Hell?
http://godandscience.org/apologetics/hell.html
.
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| User: "Ananias917" |
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| Title: Re: help with a question about the Gospels |
24 Dec 2005 02:18:25 AM |
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On Sat, 24 Dec 2005 06:27:03 GMT, "Feather
Forestwalker" <feather@NOSPAMPLZ.com> spake thusly:
I would like to cheer for you, for being the first
person that I have seen in the seven years (approx)
that I have been in usenet, who brought up a
supposed "problem" in the Bible and wasn't
an atheist in disguise! :)
Hey, Dave, you're just a wee bit jaded, eh? ;)
7 years jaded. :)
What the heck are you doing up so late, anyway? *LOL*
Feeling the pain. (:
--
"And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house;
and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the
Lord, even Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way
as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest
receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost."
- Acts 9:17
Would a loving God send people to Hell?
http://godandscience.org/apologetics/hell.html
.
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| User: "Feather Forestwalker" |
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| Title: Re: help with a question about the Gospels |
24 Dec 2005 10:56:44 AM |
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"Ananias917" <_-_Ananias917_-_@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:811qq1hse3g4d3el26smq923jt7r6v76kl@4ax.com...
On Sat, 24 Dec 2005 06:27:03 GMT, "Feather
Forestwalker" <feather@NOSPAMPLZ.com> spake thusly:
I would like to cheer for you, for being the first
person that I have seen in the seven years (approx)
that I have been in usenet, who brought up a
supposed "problem" in the Bible and wasn't
an atheist in disguise! :)
Hey, Dave, you're just a wee bit jaded, eh? ;)
7 years jaded. :)
What the heck are you doing up so late, anyway? *LOL*
Feeling the pain. (:
*sigh* Hey, I'm sorry....and believe me when I say, "I know what you are
going through."
God bless, and may your pain be reduced,
Feather
--
"And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house;
and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the
Lord, even Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way
as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest
receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost."
- Acts 9:17
Would a loving God send people to Hell?
http://godandscience.org/apologetics/hell.html
.
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| User: "Ananias917" |
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| Title: Re: help with a question about the Gospels |
24 Dec 2005 11:16:35 AM |
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On Sat, 24 Dec 2005 16:56:44 GMT, "Feather
Forestwalker" <feather@NOSPAMPLZ.com> spake thusly:
What the heck are you doing up so late, anyway? *LOL*
Feeling the pain. (:
*sigh* Hey, I'm sorry....and believe me when I say, "I know what you are
going through."
Thanks.
--
"And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house;
and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the
Lord, even Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way
as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest
receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost."
- Acts 9:17
Would a loving God send people to Hell?
http://godandscience.org/apologetics/hell.html
.
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| User: "swampmidget" |
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| Title: Re: help with a question about the Gospels |
24 Dec 2005 01:00:54 AM |
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I suggest you stop trying to stop playing "find the atheist based on
screen name" and start living and loving Christ. I STRONGLY advise you
drop the Pastor role and return to study. I've read dozens of your
previous posts and not one of them is edifying. You seem more into
argument than into bringing people to His love.
.
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| User: "Ananias917" |
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| Title: Re: help with a question about the Gospels |
24 Dec 2005 03:04:45 AM |
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On 23 Dec 2005 23:00:54 -0800, "swampmidget"
<webmaster@101click.com> spake thusly:
I suggest you stop trying to stop playing "find the atheist based on
screen name" and start living and loving Christ.
You assume that I don't, because I disagreed with you
about Christmas.
I STRONGLY advise you drop the Pastor role and return to study.
Gee and will you teach me?
I've read dozens of your previous posts and not one of them is edifying.
They won't be, if what you're looking for is feeling
good, no matter what.
You seem more into
argument than into bringing people to His love.
Yea and shame on those prophets and Jesus!
They were just so arrogant! Didn't they know
that they were supposed to say what made
people happy?!
Using your logic, they all should have been killed.
--
"And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house;
and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the
Lord, even Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way
as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest
receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost."
- Acts 9:17
Would a loving God send people to Hell?
http://godandscience.org/apologetics/hell.html
.
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| User: "swampmidget" |
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| Title: Re: help with a question about the Gospels |
24 Dec 2005 03:42:49 AM |
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you just keep cleaning the outside of that cup "pastor." meanwhile,
i'll be thanking Him for saving me and celebrating Christmas. and that
will make me feel good whether you like it or not!
.
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| User: "Millennial Reign" |
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| Title: Re: help with a question about the Gospels |
24 Dec 2005 04:27:45 AM |
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On 24 Dec 2005 01:42:49 -0800, swampmidget wrote:
you just keep cleaning the outside of that cup "pastor." meanwhile,
i'll be thanking Him for saving me and celebrating Christmas. and that
will make me feel good whether you like it or not!
And they cried out in a loud voice:
"Salvation belongs to our God,
who sits on the throne,
and to the Lamb."
Revelation 7:10 NIV
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| User: "David Chariot" |
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| Title: Re: help with a question about the Gospels |
23 Dec 2005 08:45:17 PM |
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swampmidget wrote:
Thank you!
The questions I raised stem from a program on theHistory Channel
special (I should have known better lol).
Thanks for the straight forward answer. Glad to see there's at least
one sane, educated Christian posting to this newsgroup.
Here's that link again... http://tinyurl.com/9pw4n if you should like
the real Truth of the matter. Further???... http://tinyurl.com/c7l5g
Now, here's a real discrepancy for you...
<> Matthew 27:44 "The thieves also, which were crucified with him,
cast the same in his teeth."
<> Luke 23:39 "And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him,
saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us.
40 But the other answering rebuked him, saying,
Dost not thou fear God,
seeing thou art in the same condemnation?"
It appears that there is some inconsistency in the story between
Matthew and Luke.
--
<*> -------=======>>>>>>> <> <> <> <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<|=== <*>
"Thou shalt not be a false witness of the Law, to use it against
thy brother: Only God knoweth the beginning and the ending
of all things, for his eye is single, and he is the holy Law."
http://tinyurl.com/74oty Book 2 "The Unknown Books of the Essenes"
<*> -------=======>>>>>>> <> <> <> <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<|=== <*>
The Sign of the Son of Man Web Page
For those who have not been able to access the Sign of the
Son of Man due to their browsers incompatibility, the Sign
has been revealed in the Photos Section of this Web Site.
Home - http://www.yhvh-dvyd.zoomshare.com/
Signs - http://www.yhvh-dvyd.zoomshare.com/1.shtml/Signs
Blog - http://www.yhvh-dvyd.zoomshare.com/2.shtml
Links - http://www.yhvh-dvyd.zoomshare.com/3.shtml
<*> -------=======>>>>>>> <> <> <> <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<|=== <*>
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ The fear of the LORD is to hate evil: +
+ pride, and arrogancy, and the evil way, +
+ and the froward mouth, do I hate. +
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
<*> -------=======>>>>>>> <> <> <> <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<|=== <*>
The first of all the commandments is,
Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart,
and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind,
and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.
,)))))))),,,
,(((((((((((((((,
)\`\)))))))))))))),
///`_ ```(((((((((
\\\ b\ \ ``)))))))
))\ | ((((((((
( \ |`. ))))))))
\, / ) ((((((((
`" / )))))))
/ ((((
| `))
And the second is like, namely this,
Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
There is none other commandment greater than these.
Peace be with you through our Lord Jesus Christ
-------=======>>>>>>> <> <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<|===
And to Almighty God the Glory for ever and ever
.
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| User: "Millennial Reign" |
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| Title: Re: help with a question about the Gospels |
23 Dec 2005 09:03:31 PM |
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On Sat, 24 Dec 2005 15:45:17 +1300, David Chariot wrote:
Now, here's a real discrepancy for you...
<> Matthew 27:44 "The thieves also, which were crucified with him,
cast the same in his teeth."
<> Luke 23:39 "And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him,
saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us.
40 But the other answering rebuked him, saying,
Dost not thou fear God,
seeing thou art in the same condemnation?"
It appears that there is some inconsistency in the story between
Matthew and Luke.
You had been told of the possibility of one of the thieves repenting, which
is consistent with the Scriptural accounts.
You choose not to accept this possibility, but prefer to see it as an
"inconsistency". For what reason, is yet to be revealed.
Jesus Christ, the Son of Man and Son of God, His Word made flesh. To deny
either his humanity or divinity is to deny oneself atonement and salvation.
It means a rejection of Him and His Word.
.
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| User: "Feather Forestwalker" |
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| Title: Re: help with a question about the Gospels |
24 Dec 2005 12:24:46 AM |
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"Millennial Reign" <bring.it.on@revelation.bible> wrote in message
news:1gy89270z674s.2s2e7tq2q2jb$.dlg@40tude.net...
On Sat, 24 Dec 2005 15:45:17 +1300, David Chariot wrote:
Now, here's a real discrepancy for you...
<> Matthew 27:44 "The thieves also, which were crucified with him,
cast the same in his teeth."
<> Luke 23:39 "And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on
him,
saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us.
40 But the other answering rebuked him, saying,
Dost not thou fear God,
seeing thou art in the same condemnation?"
It appears that there is some inconsistency in the story between
Matthew and Luke.
You had been told of the possibility of one of the thieves repenting,
which
is consistent with the Scriptural accounts.
You choose not to accept this possibility, but prefer to see it as an
"inconsistency". For what reason, is yet to be revealed.
Jesus Christ, the Son of Man and Son of God, His Word made flesh. To deny
either his humanity or divinity is to deny oneself atonement and
salvation.
It means a rejection of Him and His Word.
If I were standing on the north corner of an intersection and you were
standing on the south corner of the same intersection, and both of us
witnessed an accident, we'd have different accounts due to our perspectives.
Similarly, between the synoptic gospel accounts, we see what might "seem" to
be "discrepancies," but which in reality, are three different *perspectives*
on the life of Christ Jesus.
Even John said that Jesus did many more things that if they were to have
been written about, the world would not be able to contain the books that
would be written.
It seems, therefore, that as Christians, we must take a lot on faith -
including three of the four gospel writers (who were there and witnessed
Jesus' works).
God bless,
Feather
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| User: "Werner -the Christian Agnostic- Kurator" |
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| Title: Re: help with a question about the Gospels |
24 Dec 2005 04:54:29 PM |
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Feather Forestwalker in <OQ5rf.35262$BZ5.21314@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com>
on 2005-12-24 announced this statement:
"Millennial Reign" <bring.it.on@revelation.bible> wrote in message
news:1gy89270z674s.2s2e7tq2q2jb$.dlg@40tude.net...
On Sat, 24 Dec 2005 15:45:17 +1300, David Chariot wrote:
Now, here's a real discrepancy for you...
<> Matthew 27:44 "The thieves also, which were crucified with him,
cast the same in his teeth."
<> Luke 23:39 "And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on
him,
saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us.
40 But the other answering rebuked him, saying,
Dost not thou fear God,
seeing thou art in the same condemnation?"
It appears that there is some inconsistency in the story between
Matthew and Luke.
You had been told of the possibility of one of the thieves repenting,
which
is consistent with the Scriptural accounts.
You choose not to accept this possibility, but prefer to see it as an
"inconsistency". For what reason, is yet to be revealed.
Jesus Christ, the Son of Man and Son of God, His Word made flesh. To deny
either his humanity or divinity is to deny oneself atonement and
salvation.
It means a rejection of Him and His Word.
If I were standing on the north corner of an intersection and you were
standing on the south corner of the same intersection, and both of us
witnessed an accident, we'd have different accounts due to our perspectives.
Similarly, between the synoptic gospel accounts, we see what might "seem" to
be "discrepancies," but which in reality, are three different *perspectives*
on the life of Christ Jesus.
Even John said that Jesus did many more things that if they were to have
been written about, the world would not be able to contain the books that
would be written.
Excuse me, but Jesus had a public ministry lasting as a minimum one year
and the longest three years, so it would be very likely to write down what
he did. So John was exaggerating a bit here...
It seems, therefore, that as Christians, we must take a lot on faith -
including three of the four gospel writers (who were there and witnessed
Jesus' works).
How many woman and who went to see the tomb:
Matthew: Mary, Magdalene & Mary
Mark: Mary Magdalene & Mary as well as Salome
Luke: no names are given
John: Mary Magdalene alone....
Or if you wish you can look up the contradicting story of how Judas
died, and what happened to the 30 pieces of silver.
One account in the Bible tells me that f.e. John the Baptist was filled
with the spirit from the womb, and later when he baptizes Jesus, he knew
who Jesus was is, (Matthew 3:13-15) while in the Gospel of John, J/B
tells them that he didn't know who the Christ was, but that God who sent
him, would give him a sign (John 1:31-34) to find out.
John being part of the first family in all of Israel who knew who the
Messiah would be, didn't know 30 years later in one account, while in
the other he even knew that Jesus was bringing a "baptism" he needed?
Remember Jesus didn't even start his public mission yet at that moment.
And while he knew that Jesus was bringing a baptism he needed, why
didn't he join up with him at that moment or later when Jesus returned
from the wilderness after 40 days? John as it appears never received this
baptism....
And then the account in Matthew seems to indicate that Jesus heard the
voice from heaven, why of all people would Jesus need this revelation
from his Father, if he knew WHO HE is, the second person of the trinity?
Unfortunately for me, I have to take the lowest common denominator when
it comes to some portions of the Bible:
God is real,
and he sent Jesus to teach us....
but if Jesus really came to die , there my doubts starts, as most of the
OT passages referring to the death of Jesus deal with "disbelieve", (Isa.53
starts with it) "evil", people's rebellion against God and Moses, and
even Jesus words, in John 8:31-47.
"If ye were Abraham's children ye would not want to seek to kill me"...
Jesus public ministry seemed to be a uphill battle against the
"unbelief" he encountered the very people who were waiting for a
messianic figure....
God bless,
Feather
Werner Kurator
__
===========================================================
"Like all translations of the Bible, made as they are by
imperfect man, this one falls short of it goal. Yet we are
grateful to God for the extend to which he has enabled us to
realize these goals and for the strength he has given us and our
colleagues to complete our task"
Preface to the "New International Version" of the Bible
August 1983......
==============================================================
"In fact, many professing agnostics are nearer belief in
the true God then are many conventional church-goers who
believe in a bogey that does not exist whom they miscall God."
Leslie D. Weatherhead; Preface to his "The Christian Agnostic"
__
"The internet works because despite the best efforts of the suits
the technical people still talk to each other across vendors and
try and make sure everything interworks well." -- Alan Cox
.
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| User: "Your Name Here=Harvey" |
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| Title: Re: help with a question about the Gospels |
24 Dec 2005 01:03:09 AM |
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In article <OQ5rf.35262$BZ5.21314@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com>,
feather@NOSPAMPLZ.com says...
"Millennial Reign" <bring.it.on@revelation.bible> wrote in message
news:1gy89270z674s.2s2e7tq2q2jb$.dlg@40tude.net...
On Sat, 24 Dec 2005 15:45:17 +1300, David Chariot wrote:
Now, here's a real discrepancy for you...
<> Matthew 27:44 "The thieves also, which were crucified with him,
cast the same in his teeth."
<> Luke 23:39 "And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on
him,
saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us.
40 But the other answering rebuked him, saying,
Dost not thou fear God,
seeing thou art in the same condemnation?"
It appears that there is some inconsistency in the story between
Matthew and Luke.
You had been told of the possibility of one of the thieves repenting,
which
is consistent with the Scriptural accounts.
You choose not to accept this possibility, but prefer to see it as an
"inconsistency". For what reason, is yet to be revealed.
Jesus Christ, the Son of Man and Son of God, His Word made flesh. To deny
either his humanity or divinity is to deny oneself atonement and
salvation.
It means a rejection of Him and His Word.
If I were standing on the north corner of an intersection and you were
standing on the south corner of the same intersection, and both of us
witnessed an accident, we'd have different accounts due to our perspectives.
Similarly, between the synoptic gospel accounts, we see what might "seem" to
be "discrepancies," but which in reality, are three different *perspectives*
on the life of Christ Jesus.
Even John said that Jesus did many more things that if they were to have
been written about, the world would not be able to contain the books that
would be written.
It seems, therefore, that as Christians, we must take a lot on faith -
including three of the four gospel writers (who were there and witnessed
Jesus' works).
God bless,
Feather
Ummm, there is serious doubt that the gospels were written by apostles
as such...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Testament
Authorship
Main articles: Authorship of the Pauline epistles & Authorship of the
Johannine works
The New Testament was written by many different people. The traditional view
is that all the books were written by apostles or their followers (e.g. Mark
and Luke).....
......
The majority of modern scholars now largely discount this evidence for
apostolic authorship, aside from seven of Paul's letters. Except for Hebrews,
no serious question about the authorship of any of the books was raised in the
church before the 18th century, when critical inquiry into the New Testament
began......
Harvey
.
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| User: "Millennial Reign" |
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| Title: Re: help with a question about the Gospels |
24 Dec 2005 01:20:39 AM |
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On Sat, 24 Dec 2005 07:03:09 +0000 (UTC), Your Name Here=Harvey wrote:
The majority of modern scholars now largely discount this evidence for
apostolic authorship, aside from seven of Paul's letters. Except for Hebrews,
no serious question about the authorship of any of the books was raised in the
church before the 18th century, when critical inquiry into the New Testament
began......
Like holocaust denial, once the living witnesses have gone it's easier to
start distorting the facts, particularly when they don't support whatever
other doctrine you want to promote...
.
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| User: "David Chariot" |
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| Title: Re: help with a question about the Gospels |
23 Dec 2005 09:10:23 PM |
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Millennial Reign wrote:
On Sat, 24 Dec 2005 15:45:17 +1300, David Chariot wrote:
Now, here's a real discrepancy for you...
<> Matthew 27:44 "The thieves also, which were crucified with him,
cast the same in his teeth."
<> Luke 23:39 "And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him,
saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us.
40 But the other answering rebuked him, saying,
Dost not thou fear God,
seeing thou art in the same condemnation?"
It appears that there is some inconsistency in the story between
Matthew and Luke.
You had been told of the possibility of one of the thieves repenting, which
is consistent with the Scriptural accounts.
The issue is a "real discrepancy" in the scripture.
You choose not to accept this possibility, but prefer to see it as an
"inconsistency". For what reason, is yet to be revealed.
You deny the Spirit of Truth. There is an "inconsistency"!
Jesus Christ, the Son of Man and Son of God, His Word made flesh. To deny
either his humanity or divinity is to deny oneself atonement and salvation.
It means a rejection of Him and His Word.
LOL How can I deny myself? Here is something for you...
<> Psalms 50:16 "But unto the wicked God saith,
What hast thou to do to declare my statutes,
or that thou shouldest take my covenant in thy mouth?
17 Seeing thou hatest instruction,
and castest my words behind thee.
18 When thou sawest a thief,
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
then thou consentedst with him,
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
and hast been partaker with adulterers.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
19 Thou givest thy mouth to evil,
and thy tongue frameth deceit.
20 Thou sittest and speakest against thy brother;
thou slanderest thine own mothers son.
21 These things hast thou done, and I kept silence;
thou thoughtest that I was altogether
such an one as thyself: but I will reprove thee,
and set them in order before thine eyes.
22 Now consider this, ye that forget God,
lest I tear you in pieces,
and there be none to deliver.
23 Whoso offereth praise glorifieth me:
and to him that ordereth his conversation aright
will I shew the salvation of God."
--
<*> -------=======>>>>>>> <> <> <> <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<|=== <*>
"Thou shalt not be a false witness of the Law, to use it against
thy brother: Only God knoweth the beginning and the ending
of all things, for his eye is single, and he is the holy Law."
http://tinyurl.com/74oty Book 2 "The Unknown Books of the Essenes"
<*> -------=======>>>>>>> <> <> <> <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<|=== <*>
The Sign of the Son of Man Web Page
For those who have not been able to access the Sign of the
Son of Man due to their browsers incompatibility, the Sign
has been revealed in the Photos Section of this Web Site.
Home - http://www.yhvh-dvyd.zoomshare.com/
Signs - http://www.yhvh-dvyd.zoomshare.com/1.shtml/Signs
Blog - http://www.yhvh-dvyd.zoomshare.com/2.shtml
Links - http://www.yhvh-dvyd.zoomshare.com/3.shtml
<*> -------=======>>>>>>> <> <> <> <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<|=== <*>
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ The fear of the LORD is to hate evil: +
+ pride, and arrogancy, and the evil way, +
+ and the froward mouth, do I hate. +
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
<*> -------=======>>>>>>> <> <> <> <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<|=== <*>
The first of all the commandments is,
Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart,
and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind,
and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.
,)))))))),,,
,(((((((((((((((,
)\`\)))))))))))))),
///`_ ```(((((((((
\\\ b\ \ ``)))))))
))\ | ((((((((
( \ |`. ))))))))
\, / ) ((((((((
`" / )))))))
/ ((((
| `))
And the second is like, namely this,
Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
There is none other commandment greater than these.
Peace be with you through our Lord Jesus Christ
-------=======>>>>>>> <> <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<|===
And to Almighty God the Glory for ever and ever
.
|
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| User: "Millennial Reign" |
|
| Title: Re: help with a question about the Gospels |
23 Dec 2005 09:24:23 PM |
|
|
On Sat, 24 Dec 2005 16:10:23 +1300, David Chariot wrote:
Jesus Christ, the Son of Man and Son of God, His Word made flesh. To deny
either his humanity or divinity is to deny oneself atonement and salvation.
It means a rejection of Him and His Word.
LOL How can I deny myself? Here is something for you...
<> Psalms 50:16 "But unto the wicked God saith,
What hast thou to do to declare my statutes,
or that thou shouldest take my covenant in thy mouth?
17 Seeing thou hatest instruction,
and castest my words behind thee.
18 When thou sawest a thief,
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
then thou consentedst with him,
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
and hast been partaker with adulterers.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
19 Thou givest thy mouth to evil,
and thy tongue frameth deceit.
20 Thou sittest and speakest against thy brother;
thou slanderest thine own mothers son.
21 These things hast thou done, and I kept silence;
thou thoughtest that I was altogether
such an one as thyself: but I will reprove thee,
and set them in order before thine eyes.
22 Now consider this, ye that forget God,
lest I tear you in pieces,
and there be none to deliver.
23 Whoso offereth praise glorifieth me:
and to him that ordereth his conversation aright
will I shew the salvation of God."
Are you trying to claim that Jesus was a "partaker" in sin?
Perhaps you need to read Ephesians 2:1-5 (NIV)
As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, in which you
used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of
the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are
disobedient. All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the
cravings of our sinful nature and following its desires and thoughts. Like
the rest, we were by nature objects of wrath. But because of his great love
for us, God, who is rich in mercy, made us alive with Christ even when we
were dead in transgressions - it is by grace you have been saved.
.
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| User: "David Chariot" |
|
| Title: Re: help with a question about the Gospels |
23 Dec 2005 09:53:44 PM |
|
|
Millennial Reign wrote:
On Sat, 24 Dec 2005 16:10:23 +1300, David Chariot wrote:
Jesus Christ, the Son of Man and Son of God, His Word made flesh. To deny
either his humanity or divinity is to deny oneself atonement and salvation.
It means a rejection of Him and His Word.
LOL How can I deny myself? Here is something for you...
<> Psalms 50:16 "But unto the wicked God saith,
What hast thou to do to declare my statutes,
or that thou shouldest take my covenant in thy mouth?
17 Seeing thou hatest instruction,
and castest my words behind thee.
18 When thou sawest a thief,
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
then thou consentedst with him,
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
and hast been partaker with adulterers.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
19 Thou givest thy mouth to evil,
and thy tongue frameth deceit.
20 Thou sittest and speakest against thy brother;
thou slanderest thine own mothers son.
21 These things hast thou done, and I kept silence;
thou thoughtest that I was altogether
such an one as thyself: but I will reprove thee,
and set them in order before thine eyes.
22 Now consider this, ye that forget God,
lest I tear you in pieces,
and there be none to deliver.
23 Whoso offereth praise glorifieth me:
and to him that ordereth his conversation aright
will I shew the salvation of God."
Are you trying to claim that Jesus was a "partaker" in sin?
Not after his baptism.
His earlier life is not recorded in the Bible. But we know...
<> Matthew 3:14 "But John forbad him, saying,
I have need to be baptized of thee,
and comest thou to me?
15 And Jesus answering said unto him,
Suffer it to be so now:
for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness.
Then he suffered him.
16 And Jesus, when he was baptized,
went up straightway out of the water:
and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him,
and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove,
and lighting upon him:"
Posted elsewhere in this same thread...
<> Hebrews 5:5 "So also Christ glorified not himself
to be made an high priest;
but he that said unto him,
Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee.
6 As he saith also in another place,
Thou art a priest for ever
after the order of Melchisedec."
Perhaps you need to read Ephesians 2:1-5 (NIV)
As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, in which you
used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of
the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are
disobedient. All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the
cravings of our sinful nature and following its desires and thoughts. Like
the rest, we were by nature objects of wrath. But because of his great love
for us, God, who is rich in mercy, made us alive with Christ even when we
were dead in transgressions - it is by grace you have been saved.
Paul was not inspired by the Truth always, which is evident.
<> II Timothy 2:15 "Study to shew thyself approved unto God,
a workman that needeth not to be ashamed,
rightly dividing the word of truth."
You have no understanding of this verse because you say that the law can't
be broken. All of those who try to make the Bible all truth are confused.
And, alas, "we" see you all arguing back and forth in folly.
--
<*> -------=======>>>>>>> <> <> <> <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<|=== <*>
"Thou shalt not be a false witness of the Law, to use it against
thy brother: Only God knoweth the beginning and the ending
of all things, for his eye is single, and he is the holy Law."
http://tinyurl.com/74oty Book 2 "The Unknown Books of the Essenes"
<*> -------=======>>>>>>> <> <> <> <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<|=== <*>
The Sign of the Son of Man Web Page
For those who have not been able to access the Sign of the
Son of Man due to their browsers incompatibility, the Sign
has been revealed in the Photos Section of this Web Site.
Home - http://www.yhvh-dvyd.zoomshare.com/
Signs - http://www.yhvh-dvyd.zoomshare.com/1.shtml/Signs
Blog - http://www.yhvh-dvyd.zoomshare.com/2.shtml
Links - http://www.yhvh-dvyd.zoomshare.com/3.shtml
<*> -------=======>>>>>>> <> <> <> <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<|=== <*>
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ The fear of the LORD is to hate evil: +
+ pride, and arrogancy, and the evil way, +
+ and the froward mouth, do I hate. +
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
<*> -------=======>>>>>>> <> <> <> <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<|=== <*>
The first of all the commandments is,
Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart,
and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind,
and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.
,)))))))),,,
,(((((((((((((((,
)\`\)))))))))))))),
///`_ ```(((((((((
\\\ b\ \ ``)))))))
))\ | ((((((((
( \ |`. ))))))))
\, / ) ((((((((
`" / )))))))
/ ((((
| `))
And the second is like, namely this,
Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
There is none other commandment greater than these.
Peace be with you through our Lord Jesus Christ
-------=======>>>>>>> <> <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<|===
And to Almighty God the Glory for ever and ever
.
|
|
|
| User: "Millennial Reign" |
|
| Title: Re: help with a question about the Gospels |
23 Dec 2005 10:10:26 PM |
|
|
On Sat, 24 Dec 2005 16:53:44 +1300, David Chariot wrote:
Millennial Reign wrote:
On Sat, 24 Dec 2005 16:10:23 +1300, David Chariot wrote:
Jesus Christ, the Son of Man and Son of God, His Word made flesh. To deny
either his humanity or divinity is to deny oneself atonement and salvation.
It means a rejection of Him and His Word.
LOL How can I deny myself? Here is something for you...
<> Psalms 50:16 "But unto the wicked God saith,
What hast thou to do to declare my statutes,
or that thou shouldest take my covenant in thy mouth?
17 Seeing thou hatest instruction,
and castest my words behind thee.
18 When thou sawest a thief,
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
then thou consentedst with him,
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
and hast been partaker with adulterers.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
19 Thou givest thy mouth to evil,
and thy tongue frameth deceit.
20 Thou sittest and speakest against thy brother;
thou slanderest thine own mothers son.
21 These things hast thou done, and I kept silence;
thou thoughtest that I was altogether
such an one as thyself: but I will reprove thee,
and set them in order before thine eyes.
22 Now consider this, ye that forget God,
lest I tear you in pieces,
and there be none to deliver.
23 Whoso offereth praise glorifieth me:
and to him that ordereth his conversation aright
will I shew the salvation of God."
Are you trying to claim that Jesus was a "partaker" in sin?
Not after his baptism.
His earlier life is not recorded in the Bible. But we know...
<> Matthew 3:14 "But John forbad him, saying,
I have need to be baptized of thee,
and comest thou to me?
15 And Jesus answering said unto him,
Suffer it to be so now:
for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness.
Then he suffered him.
16 And Jesus, when he was baptized,
went up straightway out of the water:
and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him,
and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove,
and lighting upon him:"
Posted elsewhere in this same thread...
<> Hebrews 5:5 "So also Christ glorified not himself
to be made an high priest;
but he that said unto him,
Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee.
6 As he saith also in another place,
Thou art a priest for ever
after the order of Melchisedec."
For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our
weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we
are - yet was without sin.
[Hebrews 4:15 NIV]
For you know that it was not with perishable things such as silver or gold
that you were redeemed from the empty way of life handed down to you from
your forefathers, but with the precious blood of Christ, a lamb without
blemish or defect.
[1 Peter 1:18-19 NIV]
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was
God. He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made;
without him nothing was made that has been made. The Word became flesh and
made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One
and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.
[John 1:1-3,14 NIV]
.
|
|
|
| User: "David Chariot" |
|
| Title: Re: help with a question about the Gospels |
23 Dec 2005 10:45:31 PM |
|
|
Millennial Reign wrote:
<>=snip
<> Hebrews 5:5 "So also Christ glorified not himself
to be made an high priest;
but he that said unto him,
Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee.
6 As he saith also in another place,
Thou art a priest for ever
after the order of Melchisedec."
For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our
weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we
are - yet was without sin.
[Hebrews 4:15 NIV]
The temptation came after his baptism by John and after the Holy Spirit
had descended upon him from God.
And Hebrews was written after the fulfillment of the resurrection where
Jesus was begotten from the dead and appointed to High Priest by God.
A High Priest is sanctified and cannot sin. <> Psalms 110:4 "forever".
For you know that it was not with perishable things such as silver or gold
that you were redeemed from the empty way of life handed down to you from
your forefathers, but with the precious blood of Christ, a lamb without
blemish or defect.
[1 Peter 1:18-19 NIV]
Cleansed in baptism. And you are without blemish or defect?
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was
God. He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made;
without him nothing was made that has been made. The Word became flesh and
made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One
and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.
[John 1:1-3,14 NIV]
God is YHVH (Jehovah). The Word is the Law.
"Thou shalt not be a false witness of the Law, to use it against
thy brother: Only God knoweth the beginning and the ending
of all things, for his eye is single, and he is the holy Law."
http://tinyurl.com/74oty Book 2 "The Unknown Books of the Essenes"
Remember, <> Matthew 27:46 <> Mark 15:34 "my God, my God"
BTW, Eli + Jah = Elijah or Father and Son.
<> John 14:23 "Jesus answered and said unto him,
If a man love me (Jah), he will keep my words:
and my Father (Eli) will love him,
and we (EliJah) will come unto him,
and make our (EliJah) abode with him."
"We" are "One"! The Spirit of Elijah dwells in "me".
BTW, you will never be able to discern the Truth with the NIV.
--
<*> -------=======>>>>>>> <> <> <> <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<|=== <*>
"Thou shalt not be a false witness of the Law, to use it against
thy brother: Only God knoweth the beginning and the ending
of all things, for his eye is single, and he is the holy Law."
http://tinyurl.com/74oty Book 2 "The Unknown Books of the Essenes"
<*> -------=======>>>>>>> <> <> <> <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<|=== <*>
The Sign of the Son of Man Web Page
For those who have not been able to access the Sign of the
Son of Man due to their browsers incompatibility, the Sign
has been revealed in the Photos Section of this Web Site.
Home - http://www.yhvh-dvyd.zoomshare.com/
Signs - http://www.yhvh-dvyd.zoomshare.com/1.shtml/Signs
Blog - http://www.yhvh-dvyd.zoomshare.com/2.shtml
Links - http://www.yhvh-dvyd.zoomshare.com/3.shtml
<*> -------=======>>>>>>> <> <> <> <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<|=== <*>
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ The fear of the LORD is to hate evil: +
+ pride, and arrogancy, and the evil way, +
+ and the froward mouth, do I hate. +
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
<*> -------=======>>>>>>> <> <> <> <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<|=== <*>
The first of all the commandments is,
Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart,
and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind,
and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.
,)))))))),,,
,(((((((((((((((,
)\`\)))))))))))))),
///`_ ```(((((((((
\\\ b\ \ ``)))))))
))\ | ((((((((
( \ |`. ))))))))
\, / ) ((((((((
`" / )))))))
/ ((((
| `))
And the second is like, namely this,
Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
There is none other commandment greater than these.
Peace be with you through our Lord Jesus Christ
-------=======>>>>>>> <> <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<|===
And to Almighty God the Glory for ever and ever
.
|
|
|
| User: "Millennial Reign" |
|
| Title: Re: help with a question about the Gospels |
23 Dec 2005 10:58:50 PM |
|
|
On Sat, 24 Dec 2005 17:45:31 +1300, David Chariot wrote:
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was
God. He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made;
without him nothing was made that has been made. The Word became flesh and
made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One
and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.
[John 1:1-3,14 NIV]
God is YHVH (Jehovah). The Word is the Law.
and the Word was God [NIV]
and the Word was God [ESV]
and the Word was God [KJV]
and the Word was God Himself [AMP]
The Word became flesh and made his dwelling amongst us [NIV]
And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us [ESV]
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us [KJV]
And the Word (Christ) became flesh (human, incarnate) and tabernacled
(fixed His tent of flesh, lived awhile) among us [AMP]
.
|
|
|
| User: "David Chariot" |
|
| Title: Re: help with a question about the Gospels |
23 Dec 2005 11:28:51 PM |
|
|
Millennial Reign wrote:
On Sat, 24 Dec 2005 17:45:31 +1300, David Chariot wrote:
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was
God. He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made;
without him nothing was made that has been made. The Word became flesh and
made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One
and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.
[John 1:1-3,14 NIV]
God is YHVH (Jehovah). The Word is the Law.
and the Word was God [NIV]
and the Word was God [ESV]
and the Word was God [KJV]
and the Word was God Himself [AMP]
The Word became flesh and made his dwelling amongst us [NIV]
And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us [ESV]
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us [KJV]
And the Word (Christ) became flesh (human, incarnate) and tabernacled
(fixed His tent of flesh, lived awhile) among us [AMP]
Men (Christians) have interpreted the texts to fit their doctrine.
Nevertheless, God is YHVH (Jehovah). The Word is the Law.
Let "me" put this another way for you so you understand...
The Word is the LOGOS of God... http://tinyurl.com/a67cq
Jesus is the Lamb and the Holy Spirit is with him.
Your doctrine is that of the RCC and her daughters and it is false.
--
<*> -------=======>>>>>>> <> <> <> <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<|=== <*>
"Thou shalt not be a false witness of the Law, to use it against
thy brother: Only God knoweth the beginning and the ending
of all things, for his eye is single, and he is the holy Law."
http://tinyurl.com/74oty Book 2 "The Unknown Books of the Essenes"
<*> -------=======>>>>>>> <> <> <> <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<|=== <*>
The Sign of the Son of Man Web Page
For those who have not been able to access the Sign of the
Son of Man due to their browsers incompatibility, the Sign
has been revealed in the Photos Section of this Web Site.
Home - http://www.yhvh-dvyd.zoomshare.com/
Signs - http://www.yhvh-dvyd.zoomshare.com/1.shtml/Signs
Blog - http://www.yhvh-dvyd.zoomshare.com/2.shtml
Links - http://www.yhvh-dvyd.zoomshare.com/3.shtml
<*> -------=======>>>>>>> <> <> <> <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<|=== <*>
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ The fear of the LORD is to hate evil: +
+ pride, and arrogancy, and the evil way, +
+ and the froward mouth, do I hate. +
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
<*> -------=======>>>>>>> <> <> <> <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<|=== <*>
The first of all the commandments is,
Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart,
and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind,
and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.
,)))))))),,,
,(((((((((((((((,
)\`\)))))))))))))),
///`_ ```(((((((((
\\\ b\ \ ``)))))))
))\ | ((((((((
( \ |`. ))))))))
\, / ) ((((((((
`" / )))))))
/ ((((
| `))
And the second is like, namely this,
Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
There is none other commandment greater than these.
Peace be with you through our Lord Jesus Christ
-------=======>>>>>>> <> <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<|===
And to Almighty God the Glory for ever and ever
.
|
|
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| User: "Millennial Reign" |
|
| Title: Re: help with a question about the Gospels |
23 Dec 2005 11:42:58 PM |
|
|
On Sat, 24 Dec 2005 18:28:51 +1300, David Chariot wrote:
Millennial Reign wrote:
The Word became flesh and made his dwelling amongst us [NIV]
And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us [ESV]
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us [KJV]
And the Word (Christ) became flesh (human, incarnate) and tabernacled
(fixed His tent of flesh, lived awhile) among us [AMP]
Men (Christians) have interpreted the texts to fit their doctrine.
Nevertheless, God is YHVH (Jehovah). The Word is the Law.
Let "me" put this another way for you so you understand...
The Word is the LOGOS of God... http://tinyurl.com/a67cq
Jesus is the Lamb and the Holy Spirit is with him.
Your doctrine is that of the RCC and her daughters and it is false.
Perhaps you can provide us with a re-hash of the following verse to fit
your man-made doctrine;
"The Word became flesh and made his dwelling amongst us"
.
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| User: "David Chariot" |
|
| Title: Re: help with a question about the Gospels |
23 Dec 2005 11:46:07 PM |
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|
Millennial Reign wrote:
On Sat, 24 Dec 2005 18:28:51 +1300, David Chariot wrote:
Millennial Reign wrote:
The Word became flesh and made his dwelling amongst us [NIV]
And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us [ESV]
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us [KJV]
And the Word (Christ) became flesh (human, incarnate) and tabernacled
(fixed His tent of flesh, lived awhile) among us [AMP]
Men (Christians) have interpreted the texts to fit their doctrine.
Nevertheless, God is YHVH (Jehovah). The Word is the Law.
Let "me" put this another way for you so you understand...
The Word is the LOGOS of God... http://tinyurl.com/a67cq
Jesus is the Lamb and the Holy Spirit is with him.
Your doctrine is that of the RCC and her daughters and it is false.
Perhaps you can provide us with a re-hash of the following verse to fit
your man-made doctrine;
"The Word became flesh and made his dwelling amongst us"
I don't have to. The Prophecy was fulfilled, (Word became flesh),
in the arrival of Jesus who was the Lamb of God, a descendent of David.
Look the prophecies up for your self...
"The "Seed of David" through his father Joseph. As Jesus, TSOM, was
the son of Joseph, as prophesied, and we have two witnesses in the
genealogies of both Matthew and Luke.
<> Deuteronomy 18:18 <> Psalms 89:4 <> Psalms 132:11 <> Isaiah 51:16
<> Luke 1:32 <> John 7:42 <> Acts 13:23 <> Romans 1:3
Either Jesus was the son of Joseph, or the OT prophesies and all of
the NT references above are erroneous. Then you must say that God
reneged on his Promise, whereby he swore by...
<> Psalms 89:3, 34-37 <> Psalms 132:11 <> Jeremiah 33:16-22 "
http://tinyurl.com/9pw4n Then read the rest of the post.
--
<*> -------=======>>>>>>> <> <> <> <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<|=== <*>
"Thou shalt not be a false witness of the Law, to use it against
thy brother: Only God knoweth the beginning and the ending
of all things, for his eye is single, and he is the holy Law."
http://tinyurl.com/74oty Book 2 "The Unknown Books of the Essenes"
<*> -------=======>>>>>>> <> <> <> <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<|=== <*>
The Sign of the Son of Man Web Page
For those who have not been able to access the Sign of the
Son of Man due to their browsers incompatibility, the Sign
has been revealed in the Photos Section of this Web Site.
Home - http://www.yhvh-dvyd.zoomshare.com/
Signs - http://www.yhvh-dvyd.zoomshare.com/1.shtml/Signs
Blog - http://www.yhvh-dvyd.zoomshare.com/2.shtml
Links - http://www.yhvh-dvyd.zoomshare.com/3.shtml
<*> -------=======>>>>>>> <> <> <> <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<|=== <*>
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ The fear of the LORD is to hate evil: +
+ pride, and arrogancy, and the evil way, +
+ and the froward mouth, do I hate. +
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
<*> -------=======>>>>>>> <> <> <> <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<|=== <*>
The first of all the commandments is,
Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart,
and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind,
and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.
,)))))))),,,
,(((((((((((((((,
)\`\)))))))))))))),
///`_ ```(((((((((
\\\ b\ \ ``)))))))
))\ | ((((((((
( \ |`. ))))))))
\, / ) ((((((((
`" / )))))))
/ ((((
| `))
And the second is like, namely this,
Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
There is none other commandment greater than these.
Peace be with you through our Lord Jesus Christ
-------=======>>>>>>> <> <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<|===
And to Almighty God the Glory for ever and ever
.
|
|
|
| User: "Millennial Reign" |
|
| Title: Re: help with a question about the Gospels |
24 Dec 2005 12:09:55 AM |
|
|
On Sat, 24 Dec 2005 18:46:07 +1300, David Chariot wrote:
Perhaps you can provide us with a re-hash of the following verse to fit
your man-made doctrine;
"The Word became flesh and made his dwelling amongst us"
I don't have to. The Prophecy was fulfilled, (Word became flesh),
in the arrival of Jesus who was the Lamb of God, a descendent of David.
Look the prophecies up for your self...
"The "Seed of David" through his father Joseph. As Jesus, TSOM, was
the son of Joseph, as prophesied, and we have two witnesses in the
genealogies of both Matthew and Luke.
Two questions.
Is "Jewishness" conferred via the maternal or paternal link?
Was Obed considered a Jew?
.
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| User: "David Chariot" |
|
| Title: Re: help with a question about the Gospels |
24 Dec 2005 01:00:35 AM |
|
|
Millennial Reign wrote:
On Sat, 24 Dec 2005 18:46:07 +1300, David Chariot wrote:
Perhaps you can provide us with a re-hash of the following verse to fit
your man-made doctrine;
"The Word became flesh and made his dwelling amongst us"
I don't have to. The Prophecy was fulfilled, (Word became flesh),
in the arrival of Jesus who was the Lamb of God, a descendent of David.
Look the prophecies up for your self...
"The "Seed of David" through his father Joseph. As Jesus, TSOM, was
the son of Joseph, as prophesied, and we have two witnesses in the
genealogies of both Matthew and Luke.
Two questions.
Is "Jewishness" conferred via the maternal or paternal link?
Really your argument is irrelevant.
Both Joseph and Mary were probably Jewish. It is possible that Mary was
of the sons of Aaron, as Elizabeth was. <> Luke 1:5
Jesus was Jewish.
<> Hebrews 7:14 "For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda;
of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood."
<> Genesis 49:10 "The sceptre shall not depart from Judah,
nor a lawgiver from between his feet,
until Shiloh come; and unto him
shall the gathering of the people be."
Was Obed considered a Jew?
Ruth had married Elimilech's Son who was of the Tribe of Judah. Naomi
would have taught her in the customs of the Jews and she left her people
and joined those in Bethlehem with Naomi. So, from this it could be
concluded that Obed would have been brought up Jewish from his youth.
Boaz was also of the Tribe of Judah.
"We" already had this discussion... http://tinyurl.com/9c36v
Joseph was the Jesus's father or he wouldn't have said, "My Father in
Heaven.", he would simply had said, "my Father".
--
<*> -------=======>>>>>>> <> <> <> <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<|=== <*>
"Thou shalt not be a false witness of the Law, to use it against
thy brother: Only God knoweth the beginning and the ending
of all things, for his eye is single, and he is the holy Law."
http://tinyurl.com/74oty Book 2 "The Unknown Books of the Essenes"
<*> -------=======>>>>>>> <> <> <> <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<|=== <*>
The Sign of the Son of Man Web Page
For those who have not been able to access the Sign of the
Son of Man due to their browsers incompatibility, the Sign
has been revealed in the Photos Section of this Web Site.
Home - http://www.yhvh-dvyd.zoomshare.com/
Signs - http://www.yhvh-dvyd.zoomshare.com/1.shtml/Signs
Blog - http://www.yhvh-dvyd.zoomshare.com/2.shtml
Links - http://www.yhvh-dvyd.zoomshare.com/3.shtml
<*> -------=======>>>>>>> <> <> <> <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<|=== <*>
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ The fear of the LORD is to hate evil: +
+ pride, and arrogancy, and the evil way, +
+ and the froward mouth, do I hate. +
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
<*> -------=======>>>>>>> <> <> <> <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<|=== <*>
The first of all the commandments is,
Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart,
and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind,
and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.
,)))))))),,,
,(((((((((((((((,
)\`\)))))))))))))),
///`_ ```(((((((((
\\\ b\ \ ``)))))))
))\ | ((((((((
( \ |`. ))))))))
\, / ) ((((((((
`" / )))))))
/ ((((
| `))
And the second is like, namely this,
Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
There is none other commandment greater than these.
Peace be with you through our Lord Jesus Christ
-------=======>>>>>>> <> <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<|===
And to Almighty God the Glory for ever and ever
.
|
|
|
| User: "Millennial Reign" |
|
| Title: Re: help with a question about the Gospels |
24 Dec 2005 01:17:47 AM |
|
|
On Sat, 24 Dec 2005 20:00:35 +1300, David Chariot wrote:
Joseph was the Jesus's father or he wouldn't have said, "My Father in
Heaven.", he would simply had said, "my Father".
You err in your understanding.
When his parents saw him, they were astonished. His mother said to him,
"Son, why have you treated us like this? Your father and I have been
anxiously searching for you." "Why were you searching for me?" he asked.
"Didn't you know I had to be in my Father's house?" [Luke 2:48-49 NIV]
.
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| User: "David Chariot" |
|
| Title: Re: help with a question about the Gospels |
24 Dec 2005 01:35:12 AM |
|
|
Millennial Reign wrote:
On Sat, 24 Dec 2005 20:00:35 +1300, David Chariot wrote:
Joseph was the Jesus's father or he wouldn't have said, "My Father in
Heaven.", he would simply had said, "my Father".
You err in your understanding.
When his parents saw him, they were astonished. His mother said to him,
"Son, why have you treated us like this? Your father and I have been
anxiously searching for you." "Why were you searching for me?" he asked.
"Didn't you know I had to be in my Father's house?" [Luke 2:48-49 NIV]
Mary said "Your father and I". Did Mary forget Jesus' origins?
I weigh things in a balance. You, on the other hand, will form
a doctrine upon one verse. And have the audacity to immediately
declare that I err in my understanding? LOL
<> John 20:17 "Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not;
for I am not yet ascended to my Father:
^^^^^^^^^
but go to my brethren, and say unto them,
I ascend unto my Father, and your Father;
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
and to my God, and your God."
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Now, how many Gods are there?
<> Matthew 5:16 "Let your light so shine before men,
that they may see your good works,
and glorify your Father which is in heaven."
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
<> Matthew 5:45 "That ye may be the children
of your Father which is in heaven:
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good,
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