Linda Lee wrote:

Ha SATAN [Sin Tet Nun] wrote:

as he states:
"Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not
of this world."

this character has nothing but contempt for the Jews and is mocking
them.
he deliberately uses language which seems contradictory
(no witness /witness, freedom /slavery, this world/other world)


Papyrus 75 explicitly claims him to be a 'begotten God'
there is no need for the editors to be ambiguous.

The Jews in the Gospel of John are depicted as frothing at the mouth
and hysterical and un[edu]cated even in their own cultural foundations.
apart from three or four passages the purpose of John is to demonstrate
how enlightened and "initiated" and wise and eloquent is this 'beotten
Theos' this 'gift of the God'

from a textual analysis `ego eimi` is simply saying 'I am the one' or
"it is me'

again, P75 already claims he has pre-existence (John).

"one might translate the statement as "Before Avraham existed ...there
was THAT which 'fathered' ME."

why are you reproducing text that is already inline above ?

Of course, God existed before Abraham, but the text does not say
anything about that which *fathered* him. Also, John stated in John
1:1, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the
Word was God".

did you read P75 ? it says "begotten theos"
kind after kind, `theos` reproducing itself.

back to THIS particular passage (John 8) it is obvious a
neo-Pythagorean piece where the Jews are depicted as mere akousmatikoi
and the "Gift of God" is running circles around them as an initiated
`mathematikoi`
http://www.olivetree.com/cgi-bin/EnglishBible.htm
http://www.translatum.gr/dics/gr1.htm

the author knew something about torah but has the Iesou character
mocking them by speaking in esoteric and apparently contradictory
/inconsistent language.
the Jews perceive him as spekaing in non-sequiturs but the "initiated"
understand his `gnosis`

`pater` in the passse is a translation from a conversation that would
have been using `av` aleph-bet which while rooted in 'beget' also means
"spiritually" or "ideologically" beget
thus the sequence of contradictions runs as follows:

witness/evidence riddle
Jews/Perushim: The Pharisees therefore said unto him, Thou bearest
record of thyself; thy record is not true.
"Mr. Logos": Jesus answered and said unto them, Though I bear record of
myself, yet my record is true: for I know whence I came, and whither I
go; but ye cannot tell whence I come, and whither I go.

judgement /perception riddle
Mr. Logos: Ye judge after the flesh; I judge no man.
And yet if I judge, my judgment is true: for I am not alone, but I and
the Father that sent me.

father/ontological riddle extension
Mr. Logos: It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two
men is true. I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that
sent me beareth witness of me.
Jews/Perushim: Where is thy Father?
Mr. Logos: Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye
should have known my Father also.

death/enlightenment riddle
Mr. Logos: Then said Jesus again unto them, I go my way, and ye shall
seek me, and shall die in your sins: whither I go, ye cannot come.
Jews/Perushim: Will he kill himself?
Mr. Logos: Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world;
I am not of this world. I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die
in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your
sins

knowledge/identity/ontology riddle
Jews/Perushim: Who art thou?
Mr. Logos: I have many things to say and to judge of you: but he that
sent me is true; and I speak to the world those things which I have
heard of him.

ignorance/enslavement riddle
Mr. Logos: And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you
free.
Jews/Perushim: We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any
man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?
[NOTE that this contradicts torah shemot]
Mr. Logos: Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin. And the
servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.
...I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because
my word hath no place in you. / [bbe] I am conscious that you are
Abraham's seed

father/ontology now linked with knowledge/identity riddle
Jews/Perushim: Abraham is our father.
Mr. Logos : If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of
Abraham... Ye do the deeds of your father.
Jews/Perushim: We are true sons of Abraham; we have one Father, who is
God.
Mr. Logos: If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded
forth and came from God; Why do ye not understand my speech? even
because ye cannot hear my word. Ye are of your father the devil, and
the lusts of your father ye will do.

Jews/Perushim: (according to the author having misunderstood, exchange
becomes uglier than ever) Say we not well that thou art a Samaritan,
and hast a devil?
Mr. Logos: I seek not mine own glory: there is one that seeketh and
judgeth. (increasing the intensity of esotericism --one might have
substituted 'God' for 'raw universe' here it would make no difference)
Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never
see death.
Jews/Perushim: (obviously this man is nuts) Now we know that thou hast
a devil. Abraham is dead, and the prophets; and thou sayest, If a man
keep my saying, he shall never taste of death. Art thou greater than
our father Abraham, which is dead?
Mr. Logos: Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it,
and was glad.
Jews/Perushim: (mocking) You are not fifty years old; have you seen
Abraham?
Mr. Logos: (esoteric and mocking in return) Truly I say to you, Before
Abraham came into being, I am.

"Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and
went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed
by."


The thesis: He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear
them not, because ye are not of God.
Nothing to do with physical genealogies, physical evidence, nor
physical expiration whatsoever.

"Ye judge after the flesh; I judge no man....Ye are from beneath; I am
from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world."

The exchange is on two levels, one, the facts of the material world and
torah's explicit mitzvot ; the other level is that of esoteric
perception/consciousness
it is neo-Pythagorean, possibly related to or based upon the teachings
of Appollonius of Tyana.

Read about Pythagorean concepts of monad/duad etc and the difference in
instruction/speech for akousmatikoi and mathematikoi

even as the hebrew text says quite clearly in mishlei/proverbs 25:2
"It is the glory of God to conceal a thing; but the glory of kings is
to search out a thing."

There are many other instances where the Iesou character begins
speaking plainly about something and then the reception is quite ugly,
in which case he becomes even more esoteric so as to aggravate them to
the point where their true nature is revealed and they wish to kill
him.

it's an entirely different character from the Barabbas Yeshua who is
strictly following the TNK.
at least the Qumran seferot LOL