Religions > Bible > Re: Interesting facts about the Temple of the Jews
| Topic: |
Religions > Bible |
| User: |
"Glenn \Christian Mystic" |
| Date: |
20 Sep 2006 04:41:18 PM |
| Object: |
Re: Interesting facts about the Temple of the Jews |
"H.E. Eickleberry, Jr." <Yeickleberrybooks@comcast.net> wrote in message
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"Glenn (Christian Mystic)" <christianmystic@ev1.net> wrote in message
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"H.E. Eickleberry, Jr." <Yeickleberrybooks@comcast.net> wrote in message
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" ::: veralein :::" <veralein@lycos.com> wrote in message
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Interesting facts about the Temple of the Jews
Point of order: There has never been a "temple of the Jews." It was the
temple of Israel.
And the term "Jews" does not equate with "Israel."
In fact, when John re-lists the twelve tribes from which God will gather
the remnant, Judah is but one of them.
The Kingdom of Judah, Judah, Benjamin, and Levi (Jews) are three of the
*tribes of *ISRAEL*, are they not ?
And where are the other ten?
Have you not read the OT prophecies which have yet to be fulfilled ? These
'missing tribes' (called collectively Ephraim) will reunite with Judah.
Without them, you don't have "Israel."
That's like saying that the family ceases to exist, because a large portion
of the family is missing. Such is not the case, the family is smaller, but
still exists.
You have "Jews."
You have children of Israel, be they blood related, adopted (legally {as
when a Jewish family adopts some one} , or by conversion {as in the case of
Ruth, in the book of Ruth})
I add here, that spiritually Christians are adopted into the family of
Israel.
And that is the importance of John relisting twelve tribes (with
alterations), not just "Jews."
The importance is to protect certian Israelis throughout the tribulation,
for whatever reason God has for doing so.
Beware equating things "Jews" do with the fulfillment of end of the age
prophecies: You'll find you walked into a trap.
Of being *correct*
Of being deluded into thinking that certain events are more important than
they actually are, i.e. the Jews return to Palestine is the "fulfillment
of prophecy" when it is not.
Actually, it is a partual fulfilment of prophecy, vital to the full
fulfilment of prophecy leading up to, and including the return of Christ...
which until the Jews' eyes are opened to who their Messiah is, will be as if
the Messiah never came the first time.
It sets up prophecy, but it is not the fulfillment of anything yet.
Nit-picking :-)
Ike
Glenn (Christian Mystic)
www.eickleberrybooks.com
.
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| User: "H.E. Eickleberry, Jr." |
|
| Title: Re: Interesting facts about the Temple of the Jews |
20 Sep 2006 09:28:26 PM |
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"Glenn (Christian Mystic)" <christianmystic@ev1.net> wrote in message
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"H.E. Eickleberry, Jr." <Yeickleberrybooks@comcast.net> wrote in message
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"Glenn (Christian Mystic)" <christianmystic@ev1.net> wrote in message
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"H.E. Eickleberry, Jr." <Yeickleberrybooks@comcast.net> wrote in message
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" ::: veralein :::" <veralein@lycos.com> wrote in message
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Interesting facts about the Temple of the Jews
Point of order: There has never been a "temple of the Jews." It was the
temple of Israel.
And the term "Jews" does not equate with "Israel."
In fact, when John re-lists the twelve tribes from which God will
gather the remnant, Judah is but one of them.
The Kingdom of Judah, Judah, Benjamin, and Levi (Jews) are three of the
*tribes of *ISRAEL*, are they not ?
And where are the other ten?
Have you not read the OT prophecies which have yet to be fulfilled ? These
'missing tribes' (called collectively Ephraim) will reunite with Judah.
Not the "Judah" you know.
Without them, you don't have "Israel."
Right.
There will be 1/12th from the tribe of Judah, but not from among the
descendents of the Pharisees that constitute modern Judaism.
That's like saying that the family ceases to exist, because a large
portion of the family is missing. Such is not the case, the family is
smaller, but still exists.
The "Jews" to which John refers are Jews indeed, not "Jews who are not
Jews."
You have "Jews."
You have children of Israel, be they blood related, adopted (legally {as
when a Jewish family adopts some one} , or by conversion {as in the case
of Ruth, in the book of Ruth})
You still don't get it: Contemporary Judaism has little or nothing to do
with Jews who are Jews indeed.
I add here, that spiritually Christians are adopted into the family of
Israel.
Yes, the true family of Israel, not the Pharisees, Sadducees, and Herodians
of Jesus' day from which modern Judaism sprang.
And that is the importance of John relisting twelve tribes (with
alterations), not just "Jews."
The importance is to protect certian Israelis throughout the tribulation,
for whatever reason God has for doing so.
"Israelis" have little to nothing to do with the "Jews" to whom John refers.
Beware equating things "Jews" do with the fulfillment of end of the age
prophecies: You'll find you walked into a trap.
Of being *correct*
Of being deluded into thinking that certain events are more important
than they actually are, i.e. the Jews return to Palestine is the
"fulfillment of prophecy" when it is not.
Actually, it is a partual fulfilment of prophecy, vital to the full
fulfilment of prophecy leading up to, and including the return of
Christ... which until the Jews' eyes are opened to who their Messiah is,
will be as if the Messiah never came the first time.
Of those who are Jews indeed.
It sets up prophecy, but it is not the fulfillment of anything yet.
Nit-picking :-)
No nitpicking to it: God will call His people out of "Babylon." Contemporary
Judaism IS part of Babylon.
The people that are in Israel today who call themselves Jews are descendants
of the frauds who dominated Israel in Jesus' day, and they are only there to
set up the temple of abomination, which opposes the temple of the body of
believers, i.e. those who believe in Jesus Christ.
Ike
www.eickleberrybooks.com
.
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| User: "Glenn \Christian Mystic" |
|
| Title: Re: Interesting facts about the Temple of the Jews |
27 Sep 2006 01:42:52 AM |
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"H.E. Eickleberry, Jr." <Yeickleberrybooks@comcast.net> wrote in message
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"Glenn (Christian Mystic)" <christianmystic@ev1.net> wrote in message
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"H.E. Eickleberry, Jr." <Yeickleberrybooks@comcast.net> wrote in message
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" ::: veralein :::" <veralein@lycos.com> wrote in message
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<snip>
Have you not read the OT prophecies which have yet to be fulfilled ?
These 'missing tribes' (called collectively Ephraim) will reunite with
Judah.
Not the "Judah" you know.
The very Judah that I know.
<snip covered in other posts>
You have "Jews."
You have children of Israel, be they blood related, adopted (legally {as
when a Jewish family adopts some one} , or by conversion {as in the case
of Ruth, in the book of Ruth})
You still don't get it:
Blinded by your bias, you are the one failing to get it.
Contemporary Judaism has little or nothing to do with Jews who are Jews
indeed.
So you keep asserting.
I add here, that spiritually Christians are adopted into the family of
Israel.
Yes, the true family of Israel, not the Pharisees,
You are rejecting Paul, and calling him a liar.
Sadducees, and Herodians of Jesus' day from which modern Judaism sprang.
I am a Christian-Jew, the topic here are the Jews, not Judaism.
<snip>
Of being deluded into thinking that certain events are more important
than they actually are, i.e. the Jews return to Palestine is the
"fulfillment of prophecy" when it is not.
Actually, it is a partual fulfilment of prophecy, vital to the full
fulfilment of prophecy leading up to, and including the return of
Christ... which until the Jews' eyes are opened to who their Messiah is,
will be as if the Messiah never came the first time.
Of those who are Jews indeed.
Which includes they you want to reject so as to blind yourself to the fact
you curse a large chunk of Israel. But God will hold you to it "Blessed are
they who bless you(the children of Jacob-Israel) and cursed are they who
curse you" Try explaining your twisted doctrine to God when the time
comes... Maybe He will forgive you because you knew not what you were doing.
It sets up prophecy, but it is not the fulfillment of anything yet.
Nit-picking :-)
No nitpicking to it: God will call His people out of "Babylon."
Contemporary Judaism IS part of Babylon.
They were already called out of Babylon. Read Ezra, Nehemiah, Haggai, and
Zechariah
The people that are in Israel today who call themselves Jews are
descendants of the frauds who dominated Israel in Jesus' day, and they are
only there to set up the temple of abomination, which opposes the temple
of the body of believers, i.e. those who believe in Jesus Christ.
So the Jew haters assert, with no facts behind their claims. Prophecy
doesn't agree with your claims.
Like I said, Ike doesn't know what he is talking about.
Ike
www.eickleberrybooks.com
.
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| User: "H.E. Eickleberry, Jr." |
|
| Title: Re: Interesting facts about the Temple of the Jews |
27 Sep 2006 07:30:25 AM |
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"Glenn (Christian Mystic)" <christianmystic@ev1.net> wrote in message
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"H.E. Eickleberry, Jr." <Yeickleberrybooks@comcast.net> wrote in message
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<snip>
Have you not read the OT prophecies which have yet to be fulfilled ?
These 'missing tribes' (called collectively Ephraim) will reunite with
Judah.
Not the "Judah" you know.
The very Judah that I know.
Nope.
The very Judah you know are the remnant of the Pharisees, enemies of Jesus.
[snip]
Contemporary Judaism has little or nothing to do with Jews who are Jews
indeed.
So you keep asserting.
So Jesus knew.
The Jewish authorities claimed to be children of Abraham, and Jesus didn't
deny it.
What they failed to mention was that they were not children of Isaac and
Jacob.
This Jesus knew.
[snip]
You are rejecting Paul, and calling him a liar.
Nope.
Paul knew what the deal was, too.
Ga 4:21-31
Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?
For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the
other by a freewoman. But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the
flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise. Which things are an allegory:
for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which
gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which
now is, and is in bondage with her children. But Jerusalem which is above is
free, which is the mother of us all.
For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth
and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children
than she which hath an husband.
Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise. But as then
he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the
Spirit, even so it is now. Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out
the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir
with the son of the freewoman.
So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the
free.
Ro 9:6-13
Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not
all Israel, which are of Israel: Neither, because they are the seed of
Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. That
is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of
God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sara
shall have a son. And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by
one, even by our father Isaac; (For the children being not yet born, neither
having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election
might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;) It was said unto her,
The elder shall serve the younger.
As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
Sadducees, and Herodians of Jesus' day from which modern Judaism sprang.
I am a Christian-Jew, the topic here are the Jews, not Judaism.
No, the topic here is Israelitism (which was true) versus Judaism (which is
false).
Of being deluded into thinking that certain events are more important
than they actually are, i.e. the Jews return to Palestine is the
"fulfillment of prophecy" when it is not.
Actually, it is a partial fulfillment of prophecy, vital to the full
fulfillment of prophecy leading up to, and including the return of
Christ... which until the Jews' eyes are opened to who their Messiah is,
will be as if the Messiah never came the first time.
Of those who are Jews indeed.
Which includes they you want to reject so as to blind yourself to the fact
you curse a large chunk of Israel.
They curse themselves.
But God will hold you to it "Blessed are they who bless you(the children
of Jacob-Israel) and cursed are they who curse you" Try explaining your
twisted doctrine to God when the time comes... Maybe He will forgive you
because you knew not what you were doing.
I don't have to explain it to God--He explained it to me via the Word.
He has His true Israel hidden and held in reserve, as it was in Elijah's
day.
And that has little to nothing to do with children of the resurrected
abomination stomping around Israel claiming to be Jews indeed when they are
not.
[snip]
No nitpicking to it: God will call His people out of "Babylon."
Contemporary Judaism IS part of Babylon.
Contemporary Judaism IS Babylon.
They were already called out of Babylon. Read Ezra, Nehemiah, Haggai, and
Zechariah
LOL
They're still in "Babylon."
The people that are in Israel today who call themselves Jews are
descendants of the frauds who dominated Israel in Jesus' day, and they
are only there to set up the temple of abomination, which opposes the
temple of the body of believers, i.e. those who believe in Jesus Christ.
So the Jew haters assert, with no facts behind their claims. Prophecy
doesn't agree with your claims.
Quite the opposite.
1) I don't hate "Jews." I despise Pharisees, Sadducees, and Herodians.
2) Prophecy upholds that what you THINK is "Judaism" and "Israel" is
actually neither.
Like I said, Ike doesn't know what he is talking about.
Ike knows precisely what he is talking about.
God's Israel is hidden.
Those now claiming to be Israel are not Israel at all, but the children of
abomination returned to build the temple of abomination and restore their
religion of abomination, only worse now than it ever was before.
(But, alas, these things need be to conclude this part of the story.)
Ike
www.eickleberrybooks.com
.
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| User: "Glenn \Christian Mystic" |
|
| Title: Re: Interesting facts about the Temple of the Jews |
06 Oct 2006 12:35:31 PM |
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" ::: veralein :::" <veralein@lycos.com> wrote in message
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<snip>
Have you not read the OT prophecies which have yet to be fulfilled ?
These 'missing tribes' (called collectively Ephraim) will reunite with
Judah.
Not the "Judah" you know.
The very Judah that I know.
Nope. The very Judah you know are the remnant of the Pharisees, enemies of
Jesus.
Romans 11:26-36 Dwell a moment on verse 28.
Whether or not the Jews accepted Jesus has nothing to do with whether or not
they are Jews. If it did, Romans 11:28 would be meaningless, as no one in
Israel would be "enemies of Jesus"
Your whole argument is therefore baseless, by the one (Paul) you claimed
agreed with your theory, in another post.
[snip]
Contemporary Judaism has little or nothing to do with Jews who are Jews
indeed.
So you keep asserting.
So Jesus knew.
Yet nothing Jesus said backs you in this, strange.
The Jewish authorities claimed to be children of Abraham, and Jesus didn't
deny it. What they failed to mention was that they were not children of
Isaac and Jacob.
Yet Jesus never pointed this out, interesting.
This Jesus knew.
So you claim, but can't quote Him saying that they aren't Jews.
[snip]
You are rejecting Paul, and calling him a liar.
Nope.
See above.
Paul knew what the deal was, too.
Romans 11 disagrees with your claim.
Ga 4:21-31 Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the
law?
For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid,
the other by a freewoman. But he who was of the bondwoman was born after
the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise. Which things are an
allegory:
*allegory*
for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which
gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem
which now is, and is in bondage with her children. But Jerusalem which is
above is free, which is the mother of us all.
For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth
and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more
children than she which hath an husband.
Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise. But as
then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after
the Spirit, even so it is now. Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast
out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be
heir with the son of the freewoman.
So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the
free.
This *allegory* is a picture that *spiritually* the Jews remain slaves to
the law, due to their blindness, explained in Romans 11, until they are
*all* saved, also explained in Romans 11
Trying to ignor one text for another doesn't work when the reader of your
post isn't ignoring the same, but is instead seeing both texts in context
with each other.
Ro 9:6-13
Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not
all Israel, which are of Israel: Neither, because they are the seed of
Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the
children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
Of Israel = of Jacob-Israel, all of which came through Isaac.
We have here, obviously, metaphoric argument of some kind being presented.
For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sara
shall have a son. And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived
by one, even by our father Isaac; (For the children being not yet born,
neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to
election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;) It was said
unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.
As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
Try reading (in the OT) the story of Esau and Jacob clear to the end of the
story, in the end Esau was equally blessed, neither was "hated"
We have here, like the as in your Galatians text, an allegory of the
Christian (by adoption) Israel, and the Jewish one, the Jews being of the
Blinded Israel.
Take the time to *think* about what you are reading.
Sadducees, and Herodians of Jesus' day from which modern Judaism sprang.
I am a Christian-Jew, the topic here are the Jews, not Judaism.
No, the topic here is Israelitism (which was true) versus Judaism (which
is false).
The topic I am in, isn't the non-sense you just spouted.
<snip>
Which includes they you want to reject so as to blind yourself to the
fact you curse a large chunk of Israel.
They curse themselves.
Romans 11, they are blinded by God, it is not their doing. This is done in
part, that the last day prophecies concerning them will be fulfilled
But God will hold you to it "Blessed are they who bless you(the children
of Jacob-Israel) and cursed are they who curse you" Try explaining your
twisted doctrine to God when the time comes... Maybe He will forgive you
because you knew not what you were doing.
I don't have to explain it to God--He explained it to me via the Word.
I have the same Word, God has told me via both His Holy Spirit, and the
Word, that you lack the spiritual insight to understand what you read.
Read Jesus' parables for some training.
He has His true Israel hidden and held in reserve, as it was in Elijah's
day.
And that has little to nothing to do with children of the resurrected
abomination stomping around Israel claiming to be Jews indeed when they
are not.
Your ability to assert things carries no weight.
[snip]
No nitpicking to it: God will call His people out of "Babylon."
Contemporary Judaism IS part of Babylon.
Contemporary Judaism IS Babylon.
So you assert.
They were already called out of Babylon. Read Ezra, Nehemiah, Haggai, and
Zechariah
LOL They're still in "Babylon."
But the text says otherwise.
The people that are in Israel today who call themselves Jews are
descendants of the frauds who dominated Israel in Jesus' day, and they
are only there to set up the temple of abomination, which opposes the
temple of the body of believers, i.e. those who believe in Jesus Christ.
So the Jew haters assert, with no facts behind their claims. Prophecy
doesn't agree with your claims.
Quite the opposite.
1) I don't hate "Jews." I despise Pharisees, Sadducees,
You therefor hate the Jews
and Herodians.
Herod's family-line was never welcomed into the Jewish fold, vanished over
time.
2) Prophecy upholds that what you THINK is "Judaism" and "Israel" is
actually neither.
Where ? Your assertion remains unsupported
Like I said, Ike doesn't know what he is talking about.
Ike knows precisely what he is talking about.
Like the Jews know they are Jews ? :-)
God's Israel is hidden.
Clearly it is to you... but many of us see a large part of it existing (the
children of the former Kingdom of Judah)
Those now claiming to be Israel are not Israel at all, but the children of
abomination returned to build the temple of abomination and restore their
religion of abomination, only worse now than it ever was before.
The abomination is not the Temple, but something which will *enter* the
Temple.
At which time Jesus has told them to flee. Who is to flee, but they within
the Temple City ?
(But, alas, these things need be to conclude this part of the story.)
Ike
www.eickleberrybooks.com
Glenn (Christian Mystic)
.
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| User: "H.E. Eickleberry, Jr." |
|
| Title: Re: Interesting facts about the Temple of the Jews |
06 Oct 2006 02:02:44 PM |
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"Glenn (Christian Mystic)" <christianmystic@ev1.net> wrote in message
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" ::: veralein :::" <veralein@lycos.com> wrote in message
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<snip>
Have you not read the OT prophecies which have yet to be fulfilled ?
These 'missing tribes' (called collectively Ephraim) will reunite with
Judah.
Not the "Judah" you know.
The very Judah that I know.
Nope. The very Judah you know are the remnant of the Pharisees, enemies
of Jesus.
Romans 11:26-36 Dwell a moment on verse 28.
Whether or not the Jews accepted Jesus has nothing to do with whether or
not they are Jews.
Sure it did.
Jn 8:42-45
Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I
proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will
do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth,
because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his
own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.
If it did, Romans 11:28 would be meaningless, as no one in Israel would be
"enemies of Jesus"
Not at all, for being "Israel" had requirments, which Jesus opponents did
not meet.
Your whole argument is therefore baseless, by the one (Paul) you claimed
agreed with your theory, in another post.
Nope.
Paul knew that there was a remnant, and that remnant is the real "Israel" of
prophecy.
Ro 11:1-5
I say then, Hath God cast away his people?
God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the
tribe of Benjamin.
God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew.
Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession
to God against Israel, saying, Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and
digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.
But what saith the answer of God unto him?
I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the
knee to the image of Baal.
Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to
the election of grace.
1) Paul knew who he really was, a claim few in his time could make, and even
fewer can make now.
2) Paul knew that there was a remnant preserved through his time even as
there was a remnant left in Elijah's time.
3) Paul knew God knew where He put His remnant, and that God would call them
forth in due course of time, just as He did for Elijah.
[snip]
Contemporary Judaism has little or nothing to do with Jews who are Jews
indeed.
So you keep asserting.
So Jesus knew.
Yet nothing Jesus said backs you in this, strange.
See the parallel post: Jesus DID back up what I say, (or, rather, I know
what I say because Jesus was the one who said it).
The Jewish authorities claimed to be children of Abraham, and Jesus
didn't deny it. What they failed to mention was that they were not
children of Isaac and Jacob.
Yet Jesus never pointed this out, interesting.
Oh, Jesus pointed it out, alright, albeit subtlely, as always....
Jn 8:33-35
[The Jews] answered [Jesus], We be Abraham’s seed, and were never in
bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?
Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever
committeth sin is the servant of sin, and the servant abideth not in the
house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.
Exact same thing Paul said, referring to the stories of Agar and Sarah.
[snip]
Paul knew what the deal was, too.
Romans 11 disagrees with your claim.
No, it doesn't--you have to learn to distinguish which "Israel" Paul was
talking about.
Ga 4:21-31 Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear
the law?
For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid,
the other by a freewoman. But he who was of the bondwoman was born after
the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise. Which things are an
allegory:
*allegory*
And the allegory, as Paul clearly reveals momentarily, is that just as the
children of Agur persecuted the children of Sarah, so to do the false
children, the "Jews who are not Jews" (as John writes in Revelation)
persecute the Christians.
for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which
gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem
which now is, and is in bondage with her children. But Jerusalem which is
above is free, which is the mother of us all.
For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth
and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more
children than she which hath an husband.
Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise. But as
then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after
the Spirit, even so it is now. Nevertheless what saith the scripture?
Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall
not be heir with the son of the freewoman.
So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the
free.
This *allegory* is a picture that *spiritually* the Jews remain slaves to
the law, due to their blindness, explained in Romans 11, until they are
*all* saved, also explained in Romans 11
No, the fact that establishes the allegory is that not all Israel is Israel,
as not all Israel was Israel in Paul's day, so to, they are not all (and
even fewer) Israel that are of Israel in our day, in or outside the church.
Trying to ignor one text for another doesn't work when the reader of your
post isn't ignoring the same, but is instead seeing both texts in context
with each other.
No, all the texts work together.
Jesus knew there were wolves among the sheep.
Paul knew there were wolves among the sheep.
John knew there were wolves among the sheep.
And the wolves have devoured so many sheep up to now that there are more
wolves than sheep, so the wolves have gone home.
Ro 9:6-13
Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not
all Israel, which are of Israel: Neither, because they are the seed of
Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the
children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the
seed.
Of Israel = of Jacob-Israel, all of which came through Isaac.
Right.
But the people Jesus and Paul were arguing with did NOT come through Jacob
and Isaac.
We have here, obviously, metaphoric argument of some kind being presented.
No.
The metaphor (Christian to Jew) is based on the reality (Israelites vs.
Ishmaelites, etc.).
Hence, Paul knew they were not all Israel that were of Israel, as did Jesus.
For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sara
shall have a son. And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived
by one, even by our father Isaac; (For the children being not yet born,
neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according
to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;) It was
said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.
As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
Try reading (in the OT) the story of Esau and Jacob clear to the end of
the story, in the end Esau was equally blessed, neither was "hated"
Esau was not "equally blessed."
Rather, God promised that He would straighten out the problems with Esau,
and, in fact, ALL the Semites, as God says elsewhere...
Isa 19:24-25
In that day shall Israel be the third with Egypt and with Assyria, even
a blessing in the midst of the land: Whom the LORD of hosts shall bless,
saying, Blessed be Egypt my people, and Assyria the work of my hands, and
Israel mine inheritance.
But before God can get to this, He has to reveal Himself, and purge the
Middle East of Islam, and false versions of the religion of Israel.
We have here, like the as in your Galatians text, an allegory of the
Christian (by adoption) Israel, and the Jewish one, the Jews being of the
Blinded Israel.
The Jews who are Jews indeed.
Not the Jews who were never Jews in the first place.
Take the time to *think* about what you are reading.
Oh, I've gone over it a thousands of times, uncovering what John meant by
"Jews who are not Jews," and why he called them the "synagogue of Satan."
Now I know: Because not everyone that claims to be "Israel" is really
"Israel:" In fact, there are fewer and fewer all the time, as we head
towards the building of the temple of abomination.
Sadducees, and Herodians of Jesus' day from which modern Judaism
sprang.
I am a Christian-Jew, the topic here are the Jews, not Judaism.
No, the topic here is Israelitism (which was true) versus Judaism (which
is false).
The topic I am in, isn't the non-sense you just spouted.
No, you don't understand the nonsense being spouted by those who were never
really Jews in the first place.
Which includes they you want to reject so as to blind yourself to the
fact you curse a large chunk of Israel.
They curse themselves.
Romans 11, they are blinded by God, it is not their doing.
Oh, it is absolutely their doing.
Ro 10:21 But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my
hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people.
They brought it on themselves, by not keeping themselves pure as a nation,
by not applying the ordinances correctly, and for not arriving a compassion
rather than legalism, etc., etc.
God is not to blame for their doings or their blinding.
They are.
(So much for the Calvinistic tripe.)
This is done in part, that the last day prophecies concerning them will be
fulfilled
Right.
And the remnant is out there wandering in the dark, waiting for their time.
There may be some among these people calling themselves Jews who have parked
their butts in Israel, but those people are not "Israel:" God's Israel is
hidden.
But God will hold you to it "Blessed are they who bless you(the children
of Jacob-Israel) and cursed are they who curse you" Try explaining your
twisted doctrine to God when the time comes... Maybe He will forgive you
because you knew not what you were doing.
I don't have to explain it to God--He explained it to me via the Word.
I have the same Word, God has told me via both His Holy Spirit, and the
Word, that you lack the spiritual insight to understand what you read.
LOL
No, YOU lack the spiritual insight to understand what you read.
Jesus very subtlety told you what was going on, but you missed it--Israel
had been infiltrated.
Read Jesus' parables for some training.
I'm quite aware of what Jesus said in His parables, thank you very much.
He has His true Israel hidden and held in reserve, as it was in Elijah's
day.
And that has little to nothing to do with children of the resurrected
abomination stomping around Israel claiming to be Jews indeed when they
are not.
Your ability to assert things carries no weight.
It has all the weight of the Word behind it.
There is Israel. Then there is not Israel.
There are Jews who are Jews indeed, and there are Jews who are not Jews.
(It's amazing that you wouldn't see this, claiming to believe Jesus Christ,
and yet not understanding what Jesus and the boys were talking about.)
No nitpicking to it: God will call His people out of "Babylon."
Contemporary Judaism IS part of Babylon.
Contemporary Judaism IS Babylon.
So you assert.
So it is.
They're back to rebuild the temple, in direct opposition to Jesus' temple,
which is the collective body of believers.
They were already called out of Babylon. Read Ezra, Nehemiah, Haggai,
and Zechariah
LOL They're still in "Babylon."
But the text says otherwise.
LOL
Not when you know what the text is REALLY talking about.
The people that are in Israel today who call themselves Jews are
descendants of the frauds who dominated Israel in Jesus' day, and they
are only there to set up the temple of abomination, which opposes the
temple of the body of believers, i.e. those who believe in Jesus
Christ.
So the Jew haters assert, with no facts behind their claims. Prophecy
doesn't agree with your claims.
Quite the opposite.
1) I don't hate "Jews." I despise Pharisees, Sadducees,
You therefor hate the Jews
See, you can't even distinguish between the frauds and the real things.
With a few notable excepts like Joseph of Arimethea and possibly Zaccaeus,
(and obviously the disciples and Paul) there were NO JEWS left among the
Pharisees, Sadducees, and Herodians by the time Jesus got there: The Jewish
leadership had been infiltrated by non-Israelites, starting at the top with
Herod.
and Herodians.
Herod's family-line was never welcomed into the Jewish fold, vanished over
time.
Yeah, but there were a lot more family lines that shouldn't have been
welcomed into the Jewish fold, either.
2) Prophecy upholds that what you THINK is "Judaism" and "Israel" is
actually neither.
Where ? Your assertion remains unsupported
The assertions are fully supported.
You're just not paying attention to the details.
Like I said, Ike doesn't know what he is talking about.
Ike knows precisely what he is talking about.
Like the Jews know they are Jews ? :-)
Here's the irony: The Jews who think they are Jews are not Jews at all, yet
the Israel that IS Israel is hidden, even from themselves, so they don't
know who they are.
God's Israel is hidden.
Clearly it is to you... but many of us see a large part of it existing
(the children of the former Kingdom of Judah)
That's YOUR mistake, not mine.
Those now claiming to be Israel are not Israel at all, but the children
of abomination returned to build the temple of abomination and restore
their religion of abomination, only worse now than it ever was before.
The abomination is not the Temple, but something which will *enter* the
Temple.
No, the TEMPLE ITSELF will be an all-faiths, international house of
abomination.
Jesus is establishing the real Temple of God every time He gathers another
believer.
He is collecting His stones, and will assemble and reveal HIS temple in due
course of time.
Meanwhile, the very people who led Israel to crucify Jesus are back in
Israel to start the trouble all over again.
In the end, the war is between the Temple from Above (i.e. Jesus and His
host) and the false temple below (the Jews who are not Jews and their host).
At which time Jesus has told them to flee. Who is to flee, but they within
the Temple City ?
Which is where the 144,000 and the 2 witnesses will be ministering at the
time.
They HAVE to get out: Jesus will be destroying the abominable temple of
abomination.
Remember, the Olivet Discourse is directed at the BELIEVERS, not Israel.
Israel rejected Jesus' message.
Ike
www.eickleberrybooks.com
.
|
|
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| User: "Glenn \Christian Mystic" |
|
| Title: Re: Interesting facts about the Temple of the Jews |
14 Oct 2006 06:04:47 PM |
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<snip>
Romans 11:26-36 Dwell a moment on verse 28.
Whether or not the Jews accepted Jesus has nothing to do with whether or
not they are Jews.
Sure it did.
Jn 8:42-45
Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I
proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent
me.
Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my
word.
Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will
do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth,
because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of
his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.
Recall Jesus calling Peter "Satan" ?
Where is your argument that Jews aren't Jews backed ?
If it did, Romans 11:28 would be meaningless, as no one in Israel would
be "enemies of Jesus"
Not at all, for being "Israel" had requirments, which Jesus opponents did
not meet.
So you *assert* but so far have never backed up.
Your whole argument is therefore baseless, by the one (Paul) you claimed
agreed with your theory, in another post.
Nope. Paul knew that there was a remnant, and that remnant is the real
"Israel" of prophecy.
Ro 11:1-5 I say then, Hath God cast away his people?
God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the
tribe of Benjamin.
God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew.
Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh
intercession to God against Israel, saying, Lord, they have killed thy
prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek
my life.
But what saith the answer of God unto him?
I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the
knee to the image of Baal.
Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to
the election of grace.
Our history is full of sad events which have kept our numbers down.
1) Paul knew who he really was, a claim few in his time could make, and
even fewer can make now.
2) Paul knew that there was a remnant preserved through his time even as
there was a remnant left in Elijah's time.
3) Paul knew God knew where He put His remnant, and that God would call
them forth in due course of time, just as He did for Elijah.
That's a nice history lesson, what does that have to do with your claims as
concerning the Jews not being Jews ?
[snip]
Contemporary Judaism has little or nothing to do with Jews who are
Jews indeed.
So you keep asserting.
So Jesus knew.
Yet nothing Jesus said backs you in this, strange.
See the parallel post:
Saw it, there was nothing there supporting your claims.
Jesus DID back up what I say, (or, rather, I know what I say because Jesus
was the one who said it).
So far you have not shown me this to be the least bit true.
All I have seen demonstrated is your inability to understand the texts that
you are reading.
The Jewish authorities claimed to be children of Abraham, and Jesus
didn't deny it. What they failed to mention was that they were not
children of Isaac and Jacob.
Yet Jesus never pointed this out, interesting.
Oh, Jesus pointed it out, alright, albeit subtlely, as always.... Jn
8:33-35
[The Jews] answered [Jesus], We be Abraham's seed, and were never in
bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?
Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever
committeth sin is the servant of sin, and the servant abideth not in the
house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.
Exact same thing Paul said, referring to the stories of Agar and Sarah.
Study up on a literary discipline known as the *allegory*
[snip]
Ga 4:21-31 Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear
the law?
For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid,
the other by a freewoman. But he who was of the bondwoman was born after
the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise. Which things are an
allegory:
*allegory*
And the allegory, as Paul clearly reveals momentarily, is that just as the
children of Agur persecuted the children of Sarah, so to do the false
children, the "Jews who are not Jews" (as John writes in Revelation)
persecute the Christians.
Christians born of the Free Woman, are under Grace,
while the Jews being Still under the law, are of the Bond Woman
The Allegory has *nothing* to do with the Jewish bloodline...
You see what you want to see, even when it really isn't there
Many in Paul's day, up until John's time, claimed to be Jews (who truly were
not Jews) because at the time Christian Jews were greatly respected (these
were Gentiles *pretending* to be Jews) Such has *nothing* to do with Jews.
<snip>
No, the fact that establishes the allegory is that not all Israel is
Israel, as not all Israel was Israel in Paul's day, so to, they are not
all (and even fewer) Israel that are of Israel in our day, in or outside
the church.
Trying to ignor one text for another doesn't work when the reader of your
post isn't ignoring the same, but is instead seeing both texts in context
with each other.
No, all the texts work together.
Yet they *fail* to support your bigotry.
Jesus knew there were wolves among the sheep.
Paul knew there were wolves among the sheep.
John knew there were wolves among the sheep.
And the wolves have devoured so many sheep up to now that there are more
wolves than sheep, so the wolves have gone home.
Why the change in topic ?
Ro 9:6-13
Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are
not all Israel, which are of Israel: Neither, because they are the seed
of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be
called. That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not
the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the
seed.
Of Israel = of Jacob-Israel, all of which came through Isaac.
Right.
Such are *all* the Jews.
But the people Jesus and Paul were arguing with did NOT come through Jacob
and Isaac.
So you keep asserting.
Let me try to help...
Jew = means of the tribes of Judah, Benjamin, and Levi, all children of
Jacob-Israel, *and nothing else* Therefore they *are* of Israel, just as all
of Israel is of Israel.
Jesus spoke, in the literal *an impossibility*... The OT is *full* of such
*paradoxies*, to train the reader... So as the literal is *impossible*, what
is Jesus *really saying*?
The allegory here is that *even with Jews* if you live *in the Flesh*
instead of *in the Spirit*, you are not Spiritually Jews.
Nothing in Jesus statement was contradicting itself, which the literal
"Israel is not Israel" is a *contradiction*
We have here, obviously, metaphoric argument of some kind being
presented.
No.
See above.
The metaphor (Christian to Jew) is based on the reality (Israelites vs.
Ishmaelites, etc.).
Hence, Paul knew they were not all Israel that were of Israel, as did
Jesus.
Assertion, so far all you present are assertions
For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sara
shall have a son. And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived
by one, even by our father Isaac; (For the children being not yet born,
neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according
to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;) It was
said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.
As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
Try reading (in the OT) the story of Esau and Jacob clear to the end of
the story, in the end Esau was equally blessed, neither was "hated"
Esau was not "equally blessed."
Read the story. Genesis 25 - 33
<snipped evidence you didn't take the time to read the whole story>
We have here, like the as in your Galatians text, an allegory of the
Christian (by adoption) Israel, and the Jewish one, the Jews being of the
Blinded Israel.
The Jews who are Jews indeed.
Jews in DEED, nothing about the Jews in BLOOD
Not the Jews who were never Jews in the first place.
Like Jesus ?
Take the time to *think* about what you are reading.
Oh, I've gone over it a thousands of times,
Each time practicing the same mistakes ? I mean you have gotten good at it !
<snip>
No, the topic here is Israelitism (which was true) versus Judaism (which
is false).
The topic I am in, isn't the non-sense you just spouted.
No, you don't understand the nonsense being spouted by those who were
never really Jews in the first place.
Like Jesus ?
Which includes they you want to reject so as to blind yourself to the
fact you curse a large chunk of Israel.
They curse themselves.
Romans 11, they are blinded by God, it is not their doing.
Oh, it is absolutely their doing.
BIGOT
<SNIP>
.
|
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| User: "H.E. Eickleberry, Jr." |
|
| Title: Re: Interesting facts about the Temple of the Jews |
14 Oct 2006 10:43:44 PM |
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<snip>
Romans 11:26-36 Dwell a moment on verse 28.
Whether or not the Jews accepted Jesus has nothing to do with whether or
not they are Jews.
Sure it did.
Jn 8:42-45
Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I
proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent
me.
Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my
word.
Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will
do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth,
because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of
his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.
Recall Jesus calling Peter "Satan" ?
That has nothing to do with the confrontation Jesus was in.
Where is your argument that Jews aren't Jews backed ?
Jesus, Paul, and John all backed it, and I've gone over it and over it: But
because you are blind to the distinction between true Israel and false
Israel, and don't want to accept what the children of Satan are about to do
in Jerusalem, you reject the Word.
Rebuilding the temple is NOT God's work.
God is building His temple above.
Rebuilding the temple in Israel is Satan's work, and Satan's children do the
work.
Thereby one knows the real Israel from the false Israel.
If it did, Romans 11:28 would be meaningless, as no one in Israel would
be "enemies of Jesus"
Not at all, for being "Israel" had requirements, which Jesus opponents
did not meet.
So you *assert* but so far have never backed up.
Jesus asserted it.
Paul asserted it.
John asserted it.
That you don't want to accept that only demonstrates who you belong to, and
it's becoming more and more apparent that it is not The Word, otherwise, you
would hear The Word.
Your whole argument is therefore baseless, by the one (Paul) you claimed
agreed with your theory, in another post.
Nope. Paul knew that there was a remnant, and that remnant is the real
"Israel" of prophecy.
Ro 11:1-5 I say then, Hath God cast away his people?
God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the
tribe of Benjamin.
God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew.
Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh
intercession to God against Israel, saying, Lord, they have killed thy
prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they
seek my life.
But what saith the answer of God unto him?
I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the
knee to the image of Baal.
Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to
the election of grace.
Our history is full of sad events which have kept our numbers down.
This is a cop out.
In Elijah's day, God had to cull the real from the false, the real keeping
themselves pure from Jezebel's idolatry, and the false embracing it.
So, too, in the end of the age, the real Israel will believe God, and the
false one will try to re-establish the defilement.
1) Paul knew who he really was, a claim few in his time could make, and
even fewer can make now.
2) Paul knew that there was a remnant preserved through his time even as
there was a remnant left in Elijah's time.
3) Paul knew God knew where He put His remnant, and that God would call
them forth in due course of time, just as He did for Elijah.
That's a nice history lesson, what does that have to do with your claims
as concerning the Jews not being Jews ?
Because the Jews who are not Jews do the work of Satan, seeking to rebuild
the temple, while the Jews who are Jews indeed know that God's temple is
being assembled above, not below.
=>>>> [snip]
Contemporary Judaism has little or nothing to do with Jews who are
Jews indeed.
So you keep asserting.
So Jesus knew.
Yet nothing Jesus said backs you in this, strange.
See the parallel post:
Saw it, there was nothing there supporting your claims.
Which demonstrates that you don't hear the Word, and explains your *****-poor
attempts at prophetic interpretation.
"You" are "them."
Jesus DID back up what I say, (or, rather, I know what I say because Jesus
was the one who said it).
So far you have not shown me this to be the least bit true.
No, what I've shown so far is that you are a false prophet of the false
prophets who does not comprehend the Word.
All I have seen demonstrated is your inability to understand the texts
that you are reading.
I understand them just fine, and understand more all the time.
Hell, I've barely scratched the surface, but know enough to see who and what
you are, and what you are up to, playing the ***** with the Word of God
(both the book, and the man).
The Jewish authorities claimed to be children of Abraham, and Jesus
didn't deny it. What they failed to mention was that they were not
children of Isaac and Jacob.
Yet Jesus never pointed this out, interesting.
Oh, Jesus pointed it out, alright, albeit subtlely, as always.... Jn
8:33-35
[The Jews] answered [Jesus], We be Abraham's seed, and were never in
bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?
Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever
committeth sin is the servant of sin, and the servant abideth not in the
house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.
Exact same thing Paul said, referring to the stories of Agar and Sarah.
Study up on a literary discipline known as the *allegory*
Already have: That's how I know who and what you are, false prophet.
[snip]
Ga 4:21-31 Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear
the law?
For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid,
the other by a freewoman. But he who was of the bondwoman was born
after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise. Which things
are an allegory:
*allegory*
And the allegory, as Paul clearly reveals momentarily, is that just as
the children of Agur persecuted the children of Sarah, so to do the false
children, the "Jews who are not Jews" (as John writes in Revelation)
persecute the Christians.
Christians born of the Free Woman, are under Grace,
while the Jews being Still under the law, are of the Bond Woman
See, you did it again, false prophet: That's NOT what Paul said the allegory
was.
Ga 4:28-29
Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.
But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was
born after the Spirit, even so it is now.
How does one identify the Jew who is not a Jew?
The Jew who is not a Jew persecutes the church, and fights the Word of God.
The Allegory has *nothing* to do with the Jewish bloodline...
The "bloodline" has nothing to do with the allegory.
The literal establishes the allegory, and not the other way around.
The fact that there were intruders in Israel was the literalism.
The fact that the intruders demonstrate that they are intruders by
persecuting the church and fighting the Word is the allegory.
You see what you want to see, even when it really isn't there
I see what you don't want to see, and you don't want to see it because you
would have to repent of your false prophecy, and your false support for the
other Jews who are not Jews.
Many in Paul's day, up until John's time, claimed to be Jews (who truly
were not Jews) because at the time Christian Jews were greatly respected
(these were Gentiles *pretending* to be Jews) Such has *nothing* to do
with Jews.
It had everything to do with it, from the very beginning.
Jesus, Paul, and John all knew it.
In fact, that's why Jesus condemnend the temple--there wasn't anything truly
"Jewish" left in it.
Thus, He said "see all these things? AMEN! I say unto you."
It was over.
But for a remnant, true Judaism, nay true Israel, was gone.
<snip>
No, the fact that establishes the allegory is that not all Israel is
Israel, as not all Israel was Israel in Paul's day, so to, they are not
all (and even fewer) Israel that are of Israel in our day, in or outside
the church.
Trying to ignor one text for another doesn't work when the reader of
your post isn't ignoring the same, but is instead seeing both texts in
context with each other.
No, all the texts work together.
Yet they *fail* to support your bigotry.
No, bigotry to it.
Israel that is Israel is Israel.
Israel that is not Israel is not Israel.
Jesus knew there were wolves among the sheep.
Paul knew there were wolves among the sheep.
John knew there were wolves among the sheep.
And the wolves have devoured so many sheep up to now that there are more
wolves than sheep, so the wolves have gone home.
Why the change in topic ?
LOL
These sayings ARE the topic.
Ro 9:6-13
Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are
not all Israel, which are of Israel: Neither, because they are the seed
of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be
called. That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are
not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted
for the seed.
Of Israel = of Jacob-Israel, all of which came through Isaac.
Right.
Such are *all* the Jews.
Wrong.
That's what Paul (AND Jesus, AND John) were all trying to say: Not every
"Jew" is actually a Jew. In fact, few are (and the ones that are don't know
it).
But the people Jesus and Paul were arguing with did NOT come through
Jacob and Isaac.
So you keep asserting.
So it is established in the Word, but you refuse to hear it.
Why?
Because you are of "them."
Let me try to help...
Jew = means of the tribes of Judah, Benjamin, and Levi, all children of
Jacob-Israel, *and nothing else* Therefore they *are* of Israel, just as
all of Israel is of Israel.
Which is the lie Paul, Jesus, and John specifically denounced.
Jesus spoke, in the literal *an impossibility*...
Wrong.
What Jesus said was the fact.
He conceded they were "of Abraham."
What He also conceded was that they were the sons of the slave woman, NOT
the free woman (but He did it so subtly His opponents didn't know what He
had just told them).
The OT is *full* of such *paradoxies*, to train the reader... So as the
literal is *impossible*, what is Jesus *really saying*?
You don't even know the difference between the literal and the allegorical.
The literal was that Israel was dominated by frauds.
The allegorical is that "Israel" is STILL dominated by frauds (such as you).
The allegory here is that *even with Jews* if you live *in the Flesh*
instead of *in the Spirit*, you are not Spiritually Jews.
But the Jews who lived in the Spirit revealed that the were truly Jews in
the flesh: THAT'S what Paul was saying.
Nothing in Jesus statement was contradicting itself, which the literal
"Israel is not Israel" is a *contradiction*
Not one bit: There were people calling themselves Israel who were not of
Israel then, and there are people who call themselves Israel now how are not
of Israel now.
They were of the literal.
Christianity is of the spiritual.
We have here, obviously, metaphoric argument of some kind being
presented.
No.
See above.
"Above" is wrong.
The metaphor (Christian to Jew) is based on the reality (Israelites vs.
Ishmaelites, etc.).
Hence, Paul knew they were not all Israel that were of Israel, as did
Jesus.
Assertion, so far all you present are assertions
No, it's scripture, but you refuse to acknowledge the scripture because you
know what a terrible position in which that puts you.
For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sara
shall have a son. And not only this; but when Rebecca also had
conceived by one, even by our father Isaac; (For the children being not
yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God
according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that
calleth;) It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.
As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
Try reading (in the OT) the story of Esau and Jacob clear to the end of
the story, in the end Esau was equally blessed, neither was "hated"
Esau was not "equally blessed."
Read the story. Genesis 25 - 33
I have read it.
Esau was NOT "equally blessed."
Esau was told that it would continue under the yoke of Israel until it broke
the yoke off its neck.
And how will that be accomplished?
When they give up their jealousy, and walk away.
<snipped evidence you didn't take the time to read the whole story>
I've read All of all the stories.
We have here, like the as in your Galatians text, an allegory of the
Christian (by adoption) Israel, and the Jewish one, the Jews being of
the Blinded Israel.
The Jews who are Jews indeed.
Jews in DEED, nothing about the Jews in BLOOD
Idiot: Jews indeed ARE Jews in the blood.
That's the point of Paul saying they are not all Israel that are of Israel,
and then bringing out the stories of Ishmael and Esau.
Not the Jews who were never Jews in the first place.
Like Jesus ?
Jesus was a real Jew.
His opponents were not.
Take the time to *think* about what you are reading.
Oh, I've gone over it a thousands of times,
Each time practicing the same mistakes ? I mean you have gotten good at it
!
Nope. Each time seeing your mistakes which will lead the world to its
purging.
And it's you who haven't gotten it yet.
<snip>
No, the topic here is Israelitism (which was true) versus Judaism
(which is false).
The topic I am in, isn't the non-sense you just spouted.
No, you don't understand the nonsense being spouted by those who were
never really Jews in the first place.
Like Jesus ?
Jesus' credentials were just fine.
Your ancestors' credentials were not, "Webb."
Which includes they you want to reject so as to blind yourself to the
fact you curse a large chunk of Israel.
They curse themselves.
Romans 11, they are blinded by God, it is not their doing.
Oh, it is absolutely their doing.
BIGOT
Satan.
And how do I know you're Satan?
You joyfully look forward to the folly of the children of Satan rebuilding
the temple of Satan, in direct opposition to Jesus' temple of the body of
believers, two forces that will be diametrically opposed to each other in
the end of the age.
Ike
www.eickleberrybooks.com
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| User: "Glenn \Christian Mystic" |
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| Title: Re: Interesting facts about the Temple of the Jews |
15 Oct 2006 04:37:42 PM |
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"H.E. Eickleberry, Jr." <Yeickleberrybooks@comcast.net> wrote in message
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"Glenn (Christian Mystic)" <christianmystic@ev1.net> wrote in message
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"H.E. Eickleberry, Jr." <Yeickleberrybooks@comcast.net> wrote in message
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"Glenn (Christian Mystic)" <christianmystic@ev1.net> wrote in message
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"H.E. Eickleberry, Jr." <Yeickleberrybooks@comcast.net> wrote in
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"Glenn (Christian Mystic)" <christianmystic@ev1.net> wrote in message
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"H.E. Eickleberry, Jr." <Yeickleberrybooks@comcast.net> wrote in
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"Glenn (Christian Mystic)" <christianmystic@ev1.net> wrote in
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"H.E. Eickleberry, Jr." <Yeickleberrybooks@comcast.net> wrote in
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"Glenn (Christian Mystic)" <christianmystic@ev1.net> wrote in
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"H.E. Eickleberry, Jr." <Yeickleberrybooks@comcast.net> wrote in
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" ::: veralein :::" <veralein@lycos.com> wrote in message
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<snip>
Sure it did. Jn 8:42-45 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father,
ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came
I of myself, but he sent me.
Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my
word.
Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will
do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth,
because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of
his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.
Recall Jesus calling Peter "Satan" ?
That has nothing to do with the confrontation Jesus was in.
Why are you trying to change the topic ? It has to do with Jesus calling
people Satanic, the two events have everything to do with each other.
Jesus, like when talking to Peter, was talking to the 'satan' within them...
This no more made these Jews no longer Jews than it made Peter no longer
Peter
Where is your argument that Jews aren't Jews backed ?
Jesus, Paul, and John all backed it,
So you keep asserting, but as yet you have never managed to back it up.
Another assertion, doesn't work.
and I've gone over it and over it:
You have asserted it, and asserted it, with nothing but scriptures which do
not say what you want them to say, except to you.
As yet you haven't provided any clear cut evidence that you have anything
more than a desire to see the scriptures to say something which they don't..
And the hope that you can get others to see what you want so bad to see.
In short, you only have *assertions*
But because you are blind to the distinction between true Israel and false
Israel,
Ike, you can't see what *isn't there*
and don't want to accept what the children of Satan are about to do in
Jerusalem, you reject the Word.
That's just it, I accept The Word, what I don't accept is *your spin* on it.
Rebuilding the temple is NOT God's work.
It is His prophecy, His will, that it be built
God is building His temple above.
Rebuilding the temple in Israel is Satan's work, and Satan's children do
the work.
I pray God will forgive your blasphemy
Thereby one knows the real Israel from the false Israel.
If it did, Romans 11:28 would be meaningless, as no one in Israel would
be "enemies of Jesus"
Not at all, for being "Israel" had requirements, which Jesus opponents
did not meet.
So you *assert* but so far have never backed up.
Jesus asserted it.
Prove it ! So far you have failed to do so.
Paul asserted it.
Prove it ! So far you have failed to do so.
John asserted it.
Prove it ! So far you have failed to do so.
That you don't want to accept that only demonstrates who you belong to,
and it's becoming more and more apparent that it is not The Word,
otherwise, you would hear The Word.
Ike, you aren't The Word, and *you* are the one I am not listening to.
The Word doesn't agree with what you want it to say, and there isn't
anything you can do about it.
<snip>
...Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according
to the election of grace.
Our history is full of sad events which have kept our numbers down.
This is a cop out.
This is a fact.
<more assertions, and misinterpretations of scriptures snipped>
OUPS
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| User: "H.E. Eickleberry, Jr." |
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| Title: Re: Interesting facts about the Temple of the Jews |
15 Oct 2006 08:34:13 PM |
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"Glenn (Christian Mystic)" <christianmystic@ev1.net> wrote in message
news:12j59ug499qve3a@corp.supernews.com...
[snip]
Why are you trying to change the topic ?
Why are YOU trying to change the topic: Jesus' little confrontation with
Peter had nothing to do with the fact that "not all Israel is of Israel,"
and that Jesus' opponents were not what they seemed to be.
And still aren't.
[snip the rest of the rambling self excuses.]
Ike
www.eickleberrybooks.com
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| User: "Glenn \Christian Mystic" |
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| Title: Re: Interesting facts about the Temple of the Jews |
12 Dec 2006 01:15:52 PM |
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Assertions don't cut it Ike, you have yet to present any scriptual evidence
which backs your *assertions* that your *spin* on the scriptures actually
matches up with the scriptures themselves.
"H.E. Eickleberry, Jr." <Yeickleberrybooks@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:ZsedndBDOcIIfK_YnZ2dnUVZ_t6dnZ2d@comcast.com...
"Glenn (Christian Mystic)" <christianmystic@ev1.net> wrote in message
news:12j59ug499qve3a@corp.supernews.com...
[snip]
Why are you trying to change the topic ?
Why are YOU trying to change the topic: Jesus' little confrontation with
Peter had nothing to do with the fact that "not all Israel is of Israel,"
and that Jesus' opponents were not what they seemed to be.
And still aren't.
[snip the rest of the rambling self excuses.]
Ike
www.eickleberrybooks.com
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| User: "Glenn \Christian Mystic" |
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| Title: Re: Interesting facts about the Temple of the Jews |
15 Oct 2006 04:45:04 PM |
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BTW Paul was called to reach the Gentiles, "We the true Israel" ---
Gentiles, (Christians)
The topic of Galatians is the Law vrs. Grace
The Galatians text
Hagar = under the law
Sarah = under grace
It has nothing to do with the true bloodline of the Jews
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| User: "H.E. Eickleberry, Jr." |
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| Title: Re: Interesting facts about the Temple of the Jews |
15 Oct 2006 08:37:14 PM |
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"Glenn (Christian Mystic)" <christianmystic@ev1.net> wrote in message
news:12j5ac86ajga85f@corp.supernews.com...
BTW Paul was called to reach the Gentiles, "We the true Israel" ---
Gentiles, (Christians)
The topic of Galatians is the Law vrs. Grace
The Galatians text
Hagar = under the law
Sarah = under grace
It has nothing to do with the true bloodline of the Jews
Part A had everything to do with bloodlines, from the very beginning of the
controversy.
Part B has everything to do with faith, to the very end of the controversy.
Part C combines both.
But you are overtaken by part A, underwhelmed by part B, and have nothing in
part C.
Ike
www.eickleberrybooks.com
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| User: "Glenn \Christian Mystic" |
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| Title: Re: Interesting facts about the Temple of the Jews |
12 Dec 2006 01:17:17 PM |
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Look up the word allegory
"H.E. Eickleberry, Jr." <Yeickleberrybooks@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:t-WdnRe7BOPMf6_YnZ2dnUVZ_u-dnZ2d@comcast.com...
"Glenn (Christian Mystic)" <christianmystic@ev1.net> wrote in message
news:12j5ac86ajga85f@corp.supernews.com...
BTW Paul was called to reach the Gentiles, "We the true Israel" ---
Gentiles, (Christians)
The topic of Galatians is the Law vrs. Grace
The Galatians text
Hagar = under the law
Sarah = under grace
It has nothing to do with the true bloodline of the Jews
Part A had everything to do with bloodlines, from the very beginning of
the controversy.
Part B has everything to do with faith, to the very end of the
controversy.
Part C combines both.
But you are overtaken by part A, underwhelmed by part B, and have nothing
in part C.
Ike
www.eickleberrybooks.com
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| User: "H.E. Eickleberry, Jr." |
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| Title: Re: Interesting facts about the Temple of the Jews |
07 Oct 2006 12:15:23 AM |
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"Glenn (Christian Mystic)" <christianmystic@ev1.net> wrote in message
news:12id4cdcgc0ptd5@corp.supernews.com...
[snip]
Romans 11 disagrees with your claim.
Ga 4:21-31 Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear
the law?
For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid,
the other by a freewoman. But he who was of the bondwoman was born after
the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise. Which things are an
allegory:
*allegory*
for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which
gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem
which now is, and is in bondage with her children. But Jerusalem which is
above is free, which is the mother of us all.
For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth
and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more
children than she which hath an husband.
Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise. But as
then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after
the Spirit, even so it is now. Nevertheless what saith the scripture?
Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall
not be heir with the son of the freewoman.
So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the
free.
This *allegory* is a picture that *spiritually* the Jews remain slaves to
the law, due to their blindness, explained in Romans 11, until they are
*all* saved, also explained in Romans 11
Trying to ignor one text for another doesn't work when the reader of your
post isn't ignoring the same, but is instead seeing both texts in context
with each other.
Look, Glenn, there is a basic concept you are missing here.
When Paul says that these things are an allegory, he doesn't mean that the
situation between Hagar and Sarah is allegorical--that situation was
literal. Moreover, all through the history of Israel, Israel had to keep
ejecting "the cousins" that had snuck into Israel. By the time Jesus came,
Israel had all but lost that battle.
All prophecy works along three axis of interpretation.
1) The literal/figurative/spiritual axis.
2) The past/present/future axis.
3) The thetic/general/antithetic axis.
The story of the conflict between Hagar and Sarah was not "allegory"--it was
literal.
The allegory is how it applies to the church and beyond. Just as many of
those who literally claimed to be Israel were not Israel, so, too, there are
people in the new Israel, i.e. the church, that are not "of" the church,
figuratively speaking. Moreover, there are angels in the great eternal
Israel that are not "of" the great eternal Israel, and will be cast out,
covering the spiritual aspect.
So when Paul says "these things are an allegory," he doesn't mean that the
literal contention was an allegory--he means that the literal contention has
an allegorical application to the church, i.e. there is a lesson for the
church to learn from history.
Ike
--
www.eickleberrybooks.com
******************************
The Tree of Life (from "The Character Map")
The Beloved
Faith Hope
Righteousness Judgment Compassion
Courage Integrity Diligence Grace
Discipline of Thought Service Desire Decision and Belief
Glory Honor Power Wisdom Riches Blessing Strength w/Thanksgiving
He Who Loves
******************************
Remove X from address to reply
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| User: "Glenn \Christian Mystic" |
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| Title: Re: Interesting facts about the Temple of the Jews |
14 Oct 2006 06:07:57 PM |
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"H.E. Eickleberry, Jr." <Yeickleberrybooks@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:N5Sdna3SL8d2qrrYnZ2dnUVZ_sOdnZ2d@comcast.com...
"Glenn (Christian Mystic)" <christianmystic@ev1.net> wrote in message
news:12id4cdcgc0ptd5@corp.supernews.com...
[snip]
Romans 11 disagrees with your claim.
Ga 4:21-31 Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear
the law?
For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid,
the other by a freewoman. But he who was of the bondwoman was born after
the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise. Which things are an
allegory:
*allegory*
for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which
gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem
which now is, and is in bondage with her children. But Jerusalem which
is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth
and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more
children than she which hath an husband.
Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise. But as
then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after
the Spirit, even so it is now. Nevertheless what saith the scripture?
Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall
not be heir with the son of the freewoman.
So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the
free.
This *allegory* is a picture that *spiritually* the Jews remain slaves to
the law, due to their blindness, explained in Romans 11, until they are
*all* saved, also explained in Romans 11
Trying to ignor one text for another doesn't work when the reader of your
post isn't ignoring the same, but is instead seeing both texts in context
with each other.
Look, Glenn, there is a basic concept you are missing here.
When Paul says that these things are an allegory, he doesn't mean that the
situation between Hagar and Sarah is allegorical--
I see
All doesn't mean all
none doesn't mean none
day doesn't mean day
night doesn't mean night
etc.
<snip>
.
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| User: "H.E. Eickleberry, Jr." |
|
| Title: Re: Interesting facts about the Temple of the Jews |
14 Oct 2006 10:46:50 PM |
|
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"Glenn (Christian Mystic)" <christianmystic@ev1.net> wrote in message
news:12j2qrofmck3498@corp.supernews.com...
"H.E. Eickleberry, Jr." <Yeickleberrybooks@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:N5Sdna3SL8d2qrrYnZ2dnUVZ_sOdnZ2d@comcast.com...
"Glenn (Christian Mystic)" <christianmystic@ev1.net> wrote in message
news:12id4cdcgc0ptd5@corp.supernews.com...
[snip]
Romans 11 disagrees with your claim.
Ga 4:21-31 Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear
the law?
For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid,
the other by a freewoman. But he who was of the bondwoman was born
after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise. Which things
are an allegory:
*allegory*
for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which
gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem
which now is, and is in bondage with her children. But Jerusalem which
is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break
forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many
more children than she which hath an husband.
Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise. But as
then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born
after the Spirit, even so it is now. Nevertheless what saith the
scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the
bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.
So then, brethren, | | | | | | | |
