| Topic: |
Religions > Bible |
| User: |
"James" |
| Date: |
19 Oct 2006 10:20:11 AM |
| Object: |
Re: is Islam Rational? |
"*Anarcissie*" <anarcissie@gmail.com>
Re: is Islam Rational?
Arindam Banerjee wrote:
Marko Amnell wrote:
Arindam Banerjee wrote:
What, the pope believes that god created the universe? whatever can be
next??
The universe in turn created god?
Maybe one day someone not Islamic may be found, who can defend Islam
rationally. To this date, to my knowledge, there has never been any
such person. All defenders of Islam are inevitably Islamic. Their
best friends or sympathisers are Communists, or secular entities
unhappy with the religions to which they have been brought up. But
these types have not, or can not, defend Islam rationally, beyond using
it as a means to pull down the religions/societies they do not like.
The curious aspect here is that the moderate Muslim - at least the
educated Indian Muslim type - is usually a highly rational, polite
person; and rather less stingy and more happy to share, than the
average Hindu. They have not forgotten that they were the ruling
caste, for many centuries.
Islam seems more rational to me than most religions.
There is nothing particularly irrational in supposing that
some large being created and arranged the universe,
that it might interfere with its creation from time to
time, and that at some time it might want to send a
message or two to some of its created beings, laying
out a set of rules for their behavior.
If one must have gods, having one seems far more
efficient than having many, or having both many and
one at the same time. That this god is benevolent,
compassionate and omnipotent runs somewhat
counter to the evidence, but almost all religions
have that problem. At least the extremely weird
knots of Christian theology are avoided, as well as
the mountain of gods provided by Hinduism.
Hello,
What do you mean by "the extremely weird knots of Christian theology"?
Sincerely, James
***********************************
Want a FREE home Bible study?
Have Jehovah's Witnesses questions?
Go to the authorized source:
http://www.watchtower.org
***********************************
.
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| User: "Don Phillipson" |
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| Title: Re: is Islam Rational? |
19 Oct 2006 10:38:12 AM |
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"James" <bireda@allvantage.com> wrote in message
news:6t5fj216b6alsq1b80ajma2emnjvnu9p7k@4ax.com...
What do you mean by "the extremely weird knots of Christian theology"?
Christians disagree little about several "knots" viz.
1. Doctrine of the Trinity
2. Doctrine of free will vis-a-vis Original Sin.
3. Relationship between Jewish and Christian theology.
4. Salvation by faith vs. salvation by works, vs. the doctrine
of grace vs. predestination.
I.e. much ink has been spent on all for 1500+ years.
--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)
.
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: is Islam Rational? |
23 Oct 2006 09:10:21 PM |
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On Thu, 19 Oct 2006 11:38:12 -0400, "Don Phillipson"
<d.phillipsonSPAMBLOCK@ncf.ca> wrote in alt.atheism
"James" <bireda@allvantage.com> wrote in message
news:6t5fj216b6alsq1b80ajma2emnjvnu9p7k@4ax.com...
What do you mean by "the extremely weird knots of Christian theology"?
Christians disagree little about several "knots" viz.
1. Doctrine of the Trinity
2. Doctrine of free will vis-a-vis Original Sin.
3. Relationship between Jewish and Christian theology.
4. Salvation by faith vs. salvation by works, vs. the doctrine
of grace vs. predestination.
I.e. much ink has been spent on all for 1500+ years.
Don't forget much blood, tortured flesh, burned alive, drownings,
pressing, churching, broken on the wheel, iron booted, iron maidened,
and much much more.
--
Fundies and trolls are cordially invited to
shove a wooden cross up their arses and rotate
at a high rate of speed. I trust you'll
be 'blessed' with a plethora of splinters.
.
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| User: "•R L Measures" |
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| Title: Re: is Islam Rational? |
24 Oct 2006 03:40:01 AM |
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In article <actqj294506aiejeard7ufbt64ht3kke9a@4ax.com>, stoney
<stoney@the.net> wrote:
On Thu, 19 Oct 2006 11:38:12 -0400, "Don Phillipson"
<d.phillipsonSPAMBLOCK@ncf.ca> wrote in alt.atheism
"James" <bireda@allvantage.com> wrote in message
news:6t5fj216b6alsq1b80ajma2emnjvnu9p7k@4ax.com...
What do you mean by "the extremely weird knots of Christian theology"?
Christians disagree little about several "knots" viz.
1. Doctrine of the Trinity
2. Doctrine of free will vis-a-vis Original Sin.
3. Relationship between Jewish and Christian theology.
4. Salvation by faith vs. salvation by works, vs. the doctrine
of grace vs. predestination.
I.e. much ink has been spent on all for 1500+ years.
Don't forget much blood, tortured flesh, burned alive, drownings,
pressing, churching, broken on the wheel, iron booted, iron maidened,
and much much more.
• Methinks castration deserved mention.
.
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| User: "Giant Waffle" |
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| Title: Re: is Islam Rational? |
19 Oct 2006 10:54:39 AM |
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On Thu, 19 Oct 2006 11:38:12 -0400, while bungee jumping, "Don
Phillipson" <d.phillipsonSPAMBLOCK@ncf.ca> shouted thusly:
"James" <bireda@allvantage.com> wrote in message
news:6t5fj216b6alsq1b80ajma2emnjvnu9p7k@4ax.com...
What do you mean by "the extremely weird knots of Christian theology"?
Christians disagree little about several "knots" viz.
1. Doctrine of the Trinity
2. Doctrine of free will vis-a-vis Original Sin.
3. Relationship between Jewish and Christian theology.
4. Salvation by faith vs. salvation by works, vs. the doctrine
of grace vs. predestination.
I.e. much ink has been spent on all for 1500+ years.
Re: 2 & 5, there is disagreement there. And a big one. :)
But either way, both are saved, I believe.
--
Giant Waffle
<{{{><
My heart rejoices in the Lord; My horn is exalted in the Lord.
I smile at my enemies, because I rejoice in Your salvation.
- 1 Samuel 2:1
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| User: "Francis A. Miniter" |
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| Title: Re: is Islam Rational? |
19 Oct 2006 10:34:32 AM |
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James wrote:
"*Anarcissie*" <anarcissie@gmail.com>
Re: is Islam Rational?
Arindam Banerjee wrote:
Marko Amnell wrote:
Arindam Banerjee wrote:
What, the pope believes that god created the universe? whatever can be
next??
The universe in turn created god?
Maybe one day someone not Islamic may be found, who can defend Islam
rationally. To this date, to my knowledge, there has never been any
such person. All defenders of Islam are inevitably Islamic. Their
best friends or sympathisers are Communists, or secular entities
unhappy with the religions to which they have been brought up. But
these types have not, or can not, defend Islam rationally, beyond using
it as a means to pull down the religions/societies they do not like.
The curious aspect here is that the moderate Muslim - at least the
educated Indian Muslim type - is usually a highly rational, polite
person; and rather less stingy and more happy to share, than the
average Hindu. They have not forgotten that they were the ruling
caste, for many centuries.
Islam seems more rational to me than most religions.
There is nothing particularly irrational in supposing that
some large being created and arranged the universe,
that it might interfere with its creation from time to
time, and that at some time it might want to send a
message or two to some of its created beings, laying
out a set of rules for their behavior.
If one must have gods, having one seems far more
efficient than having many, or having both many and
one at the same time. That this god is benevolent,
compassionate and omnipotent runs somewhat
counter to the evidence, but almost all religions
have that problem. At least the extremely weird
knots of Christian theology are avoided, as well as
the mountain of gods provided by Hinduism.
Hello,
What do you mean by "the extremely weird knots of Christian theology"?
Sincerely, James
The Trinity, for one? (Muslims deny that doctrine.)
Immaculate Conception?
Jesus as God _and_ Man?
Francis A. Miniter
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| User: "Bruce McGuffin" |
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| Title: Re: is Islam Rational? |
19 Oct 2006 12:12:28 PM |
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"Francis A. Miniter" <miniter@attglobal.net> writes:
What do you mean by "the extremely weird knots of Christian theology"?
Sincerely, James
The Trinity, for one? (Muslims deny that doctrine.)
Immaculate Conception?
Jesus as God _and_ Man?
The Immaculate Conception is only a weird knot of Christian Theology
within the Catholic Church.
Bruce
.
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: is Islam Rational? |
23 Oct 2006 09:07:57 PM |
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On Thu, 19 Oct 2006 13:12:28 -0400, Bruce McGuffin <nowak@ll.mit.edu>
wrote in alt.atheism
"Francis A. Miniter" <miniter@attglobal.net> writes:
What do you mean by "the extremely weird knots of Christian theology"?
Sincerely, James
The Trinity, for one? (Muslims deny that doctrine.)
Immaculate Conception?
Jesus as God _and_ Man?
The Immaculate Conception is only a weird knot of Christian Theology
within the Catholic Church.
Don't forget the host of paedophiles and enablers.
--
Fundies and trolls are cordially invited to
shove a wooden cross up their arses and rotate
at a high rate of speed. I trust you'll
be 'blessed' with a plethora of splinters.
.
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| User: "•R L Measures" |
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| Title: Re: is Islam Rational? |
24 Oct 2006 03:37:51 AM |
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In article <l9tqj2d9b6ml30jjhhseuq23ip0cnq6j7i@4ax.com>, stoney
<stoney@the.net> wrote:
On Thu, 19 Oct 2006 13:12:28 -0400, Bruce McGuffin <nowak@ll.mit.edu>
wrote in alt.atheism
"Francis A. Miniter" <miniter@attglobal.net> writes:
What do you mean by "the extremely weird knots of Christian theology"?
Sincerely, James
The Trinity, for one? (Muslims deny that doctrine.)
Immaculate Conception?
Jesus as God _and_ Man?
The Immaculate Conception is only a weird knot of Christian Theology
within the Catholic Church.
Don't forget the host of paedophiles and enablers.
• What's wierd about that?, the rate of paedophilia and enablers thereof
is higher in the general population than it is in God's Holy Church.
.
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| User: "ZenIsWhen" |
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| Title: Re: is Islam Rational? |
19 Oct 2006 10:22:18 AM |
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No religion is "rational". They are beliefs in unproven entities.
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| User: "seon ferguson" |
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| Title: Re: is Islam Rational? |
23 Oct 2006 03:07:54 AM |
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Amen. I couldnt have put it better myself.
"ZenIsWhen" <ZenIsWhen@MYOB.com> wrote in message
news:12jf6167b6u2l55@corp.supernews.com...
No religion is "rational". They are beliefs in unproven entities.
.
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: is Islam Rational? |
23 Oct 2006 09:12:48 PM |
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On 19 Oct 2006 19:26:00 -0700, "Gene Ward Smith"
<genewardsmith@gmail.com> wrote in alt.atheism
*Anarcissie* wrote:
For a set of examples, take a careful look at the Nicene
Creed ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicene_creed )
going sentence by sentence and phrase by phrase,
remembering that what you are reading is _not_ poetry,
_not_ metaphor, but propositions which are to be
accepted and believed as literal, factual, operative,
relevant truth.
"Begotten" is plainly a metaphor. So is the language of "Father" and
"Son", and the phrase "seated on the right hand".
But the point is correct that Christianity is much more metaphysically
complex than Islam.
You mean that Christianity is filled with much more irrational *****
than Islam.
--
Fundies and trolls are cordially invited to
shove a wooden cross up their arses and rotate
at a high rate of speed. I trust you'll
be 'blessed' with a plethora of splinters.
.
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| User: "•R L Measures" |
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| Title: Re: is Islam Rational? |
24 Oct 2006 03:44:18 AM |
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In article <tgtqj25oqer8jnm6ftlbgdeovtp2skh563@4ax.com>, stoney
<stoney@the.net> wrote:
On 19 Oct 2006 19:26:00 -0700, "Gene Ward Smith"
<genewardsmith@gmail.com> wrote in alt.atheism
*Anarcissie* wrote:
For a set of examples, take a careful look at the Nicene
Creed ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicene_creed )
going sentence by sentence and phrase by phrase,
remembering that what you are reading is _not_ poetry,
_not_ metaphor, but propositions which are to be
accepted and believed as literal, factual, operative,
relevant truth.
"Begotten" is plainly a metaphor. So is the language of "Father" and
"Son", and the phrase "seated on the right hand".
But the point is correct that Christianity is much more metaphysically
complex than Islam.
You mean that Christianity is filled with much more irrational *****
than Islam.
.... and especially so after the 4th century. As I see it, Muhammad got it
right when he said:
---²Unbelievers in God are those who declare: God is the Messiah, the son
of Mary.²
Qur¹an 5:15
.
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| User: "kope2" |
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| Title: Re: is Islam Rational? |
19 Oct 2006 11:57:31 PM |
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i am a radical muslim please read my blog.
ttp://www.xanga.com/hfghj23458654fgha
.
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| User: "Bill M" |
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| Title: Re: is Islam Rational? |
20 Oct 2006 02:59:31 PM |
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There is no such thing as a 'rational' religion!
"kope2" <kope22222@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1161320251.732874.279720@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
i am a radical muslim please read my blog.
ttp://www.xanga.com/hfghj23458654fgha
.
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