| Topic: |
Religions > Bible |
| User: |
"James" |
| Date: |
10 Dec 2006 11:25:36 AM |
| Object: |
Re: Most Christians never speak in tongues at all |
checker@flipper.net
Re: Most Christians never speak in tongues at all
In the United States, most Christians never need to speak in tongues.
Almost all of us speak and understand English. Those who don't
usually worship with their own groups, whether hispanic, chinese,
or whatever other language they speak at home, so tongues is not
necessary anywhere.
Some modern-day "pentecostals" claim that every Christian must speak
in tongues to receive the Baptism of the Holy Ghost, a practice
completely unknown to the Bible. The Bible says that not all
Christians speak in tongues, but and it says that all Christians are
Baptized in the Holy Ghost It also says that if you don't have the
Holy Ghost, you are not a Christian; you do not belong to Jesus at
all. So the modern-day "pentecostal" claim is contradictory to the
Bible.
Lutheran, Baptist, Evangelical Free, Bible Church, and other kinds of
Christians who never speak one word in tongues ever are indeed
Baptized by the Holy Ghost and are just as much "Christian" as any
modern-day "pentecostals" are. Tongues are not required anywhere in
the Bible.
in the Name of Jesus,
Checker
Checker,
Yes, the speaking in tongues was even predicted to end, once it
fulfilled it purpose of showing that God was ending the Jewish
religious system, and now supporting the Christian religious system. 1
Co 13:8,
"Love never fails; but if there are gifts of prophecy, they will be
done away; if there are tongues, they will cease; if there is
knowledge, it will be done away." (NASB)
Yet one would have to admit that if someone never learned a foreign
language, and then started to speak one instantly, that people would
call that miraculous. And miracles, when esp connected with religious
activities, are alleged to be from God.
But we would have to ask why God would still be using just only
tongues today, when back in the first century there were many other
'gifts' to men from God, such as prophecy, instant healings, raising
the dead, etc.
And why use tongues at all, since we now have the complete Bible to
show people that God has left those written Jewish Mosaic Laws, and
now backs Christianity. (see Jer 31:31;34)
But yet, apparently tongues go on inside those Pentecostal churches.
(and others) Interestingly, here is one documented case of just what
some of those tongues are saying. D. A. Hayes, in his book "The Gift
of Tongues", referred to an instance where a man refused to interpret
the speech of a woman who spoke in an unknown tongue because,
"the language was the vilest of the vile."
Now since God does"not tempt anyone with evil" (Jas 1:13), either God
has broken His own rule and put "vile" things in the mouth of that
person, or the source of those tongues are not from the God of the
Bible. The Bible itself shows the latter to be true.
Even written history shows those special gifts of the Holy Spirit
absent soon after the 1st century ended. Thus we read that these
powers were:
"missing in the 2nd-century church, the writers of those days speaking
of them as a thing in the past-in the apostolic age, in fact." (The
Illustrated Bible Dictionary, edited by J. D. Douglas, 1980, Vol. 1,
p. 79.)
Thus if Almighty God is not the one who is giving those people that
miraculous ability of speaking another language that they previously
did not know, then it is God's adversary who is doing it. It is "the
god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving" who is
doing it. (2 Co 4:4)
Yes, the ability to speak in tongues can come from a source other than
God. Notice 1 Joh 4:1,
"Beloved ones, do not believe every inspired expression ["every
spirit," KJ, RS], but test the inspired expressions to see whether
they originate with God, because many false prophets have gone forth
into the world." (NWT)
Thus the Scriptures do not show that God uses the special gift of
tongues in our day. But that won't stop God's great adversary, Satan
the Devil, from using them.
Sincerely, James
***********************************
Want a FREE home Bible study?
Have Jehovah's Witnesses questions?
Go to the authorized source:
http://www.watchtower.org
***********************************
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| User: "Andrew W" |
|
| Title: Re: Most Christians never speak in tongues at all |
11 Dec 2006 03:52:24 AM |
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"James" <bireda@allvantage.com> wrote in message
news:e2fon2pvk21rs29ubv7rjdp9fhdm0b49s3@4ax.com...
"the language was the vilest of the vile."
Now since God does"not tempt anyone with evil" (Jas 1:13),
That's not true.
God purposely left Adam and Eve alone with a very tempting Tree of knowledge
of good and evil, AND with a serpent in it! An evil lying serpent!
He was testing them, according to the Christian teaching.
If that's not tempting someone with evil (to do evil) then I don't know what
is.
either God
has broken His own rule and put "vile" things in the mouth of that
person, or the source of those tongues are not from the God of the
Bible. The Bible itself shows the latter to be true.
Even written history shows those special gifts of the Holy Spirit
absent soon after the 1st century ended. Thus we read that these
powers were:
"missing in the 2nd-century church, the writers of those days speaking
of them as a thing in the past-in the apostolic age, in fact." (The
Illustrated Bible Dictionary, edited by J. D. Douglas, 1980, Vol. 1,
p. 79.)
Thus if Almighty God is not the one who is giving those people that
miraculous ability of speaking another language that they previously
did not know, then it is God's adversary who is doing it. It is "the
god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving" who is
doing it. (2 Co 4:4)
If lying spirits can inspire beliefs in people so easily then what makes you
so sure that there were no lying spirits inspiring some of the verses in the
Bible itself?
Yes, the ability to speak in tongues can come from a source other than
God. Notice 1 Joh 4:1,
"Beloved ones, do not believe every inspired expression ["every
spirit," KJ, RS], but test the inspired expressions to see whether
they originate with God, because many false prophets have gone forth
into the world." (NWT)
Can you describe how to perform one of these tests for determining what is
from God and what isn't?
The Bible isn't too clear on exactly how to do it.
Thus the Scriptures do not show that God uses the special gift of
tongues in our day. But that won't stop God's great adversary, Satan
the Devil, from using them.
Sincerely, James
***********************************
Want a FREE home Bible study?
Have Jehovah's Witnesses questions?
Go to the authorized source:
http://www.watchtower.org
***********************************
--
Andrew W.
A god who requires bloodshed and suffering of the innocent in order to
forgive can only be an evil god, and anyone who gleefully supports this kind
of god character is insane.
What we are told God and Jesus said, they did not say.
http://www.divinelove.org/volume1/Mission.htm
TABLE OF CONTENTS. Must read!
http://www.divinelove.org/revnt/Rev-TOC-title.htm
God wants us to be happy and abundant.
http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Science_of_Getting_Rich
Audio version. http://website.lineone.net/~cornerstone/richaudio.htm
Think you know what ego is? Think again. The Bible is full of it!
http://www.fipdata.org/index.html
.
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| User: "gatekeeper" |
|
| Title: Re: Most Christians never speak in tongues at all |
10 Dec 2006 12:01:25 PM |
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James wrote:
checker@flipper.net
Re: Most Christians never speak in tongues at all
In the United States, most Christians never need to speak in tongues.
Almost all of us speak and understand English. Those who don't
usually worship with their own groups, whether hispanic, chinese,
or whatever other language they speak at home, so tongues is not
necessary anywhere.
Some modern-day "pentecostals" claim that every Christian must speak
in tongues to receive the Baptism of the Holy Ghost, a practice
completely unknown to the Bible. The Bible says that not all
Christians speak in tongues, but and it says that all Christians are
Baptized in the Holy Ghost It also says that if you don't have the
Holy Ghost, you are not a Christian; you do not belong to Jesus at
all. So the modern-day "pentecostal" claim is contradictory to the
Bible.
Lutheran, Baptist, Evangelical Free, Bible Church, and other kinds of
Christians who never speak one word in tongues ever are indeed
Baptized by the Holy Ghost and are just as much "Christian" as any
modern-day "pentecostals" are. Tongues are not required anywhere in
the Bible.
in the Name of Jesus,
Checker
Checker,
Yes, the speaking in tongues was even predicted to end, once it
fulfilled it purpose of showing that God was ending the Jewish
religious system, and now supporting the Christian religious system. 1
Co 13:8,
"Love never fails; but if there are gifts of prophecy, they will be
done away; if there are tongues, they will cease; if there is
knowledge, it will be done away." (NASB)
Yet one would have to admit that if someone never learned a foreign
language, and then started to speak one instantly, that people would
call that miraculous. And miracles, when esp connected with religious
activities, are alleged to be from God.
But we would have to ask why God would still be using just only
tongues today, when back in the first century there were many other
'gifts' to men from God, such as prophecy, instant healings, raising
the dead, etc.
And why use tongues at all, since we now have the complete Bible to
show people that God has left those written Jewish Mosaic Laws, and
now backs Christianity. (see Jer 31:31;34)
But yet, apparently tongues go on inside those Pentecostal churches.
(and others) Interestingly, here is one documented case of just what
some of those tongues are saying. D. A. Hayes, in his book "The Gift
of Tongues", referred to an instance where a man refused to interpret
the speech of a woman who spoke in an unknown tongue because,
"the language was the vilest of the vile."
Now since God does"not tempt anyone with evil" (Jas 1:13), either God
has broken His own rule and put "vile" things in the mouth of that
person, or the source of those tongues are not from the God of the
Bible. The Bible itself shows the latter to be true.
Even written history shows those special gifts of the Holy Spirit
absent soon after the 1st century ended. Thus we read that these
powers were:
"missing in the 2nd-century church, the writers of those days speaking
of them as a thing in the past-in the apostolic age, in fact." (The
Illustrated Bible Dictionary, edited by J. D. Douglas, 1980, Vol. 1,
p. 79.)
Thus if Almighty God is not the one who is giving those people that
miraculous ability of speaking another language that they previously
did not know, then it is God's adversary who is doing it. It is "the
god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving" who is
doing it. (2 Co 4:4)
Yes, the ability to speak in tongues can come from a source other than
God. Notice 1 Joh 4:1,
"Beloved ones, do not believe every inspired expression ["every
spirit," KJ, RS], but test the inspired expressions to see whether
they originate with God, because many false prophets have gone forth
into the world." (NWT)
Thus the Scriptures do not show that God uses the special gift of
tongues in our day. But that won't stop God's great adversary, Satan
the Devil, from using them.
Sincerely, James
***********************************
Want a FREE home Bible study?
Have Jehovah's Witnesses questions?
Go to the authorized source:
http://www.watchtower.org
***********************************
If I hand you 10 one hundred dollar bills, and tell you that they are
all yours to spend however you like, however I also tell you that 9 of
the 10 are counterfeit! Will you not study them to figure out which
one is true, and dispose of the rest! Then you will happily spend the
one that remains!
Even so that there are counterfeit tongues is based on the fact that
there are also real valid true tongues! Otherwise there could not be a
counterfeit! Also as you searched out the real bill, then why do you
not work as hard and diligently to discover the true Gift! Is it
because the perceived value is not worth your effort! How is it that
you dispise that which the Holy Spirit says is good, and for your
edification, and for the edification of others!
Yes Paul said he would rather speak one word with understanding, that
would edify many, but He also said that he prayed in tongues more than
all of them! So is it possible that you have missed something major in
your assessment of Tongues and their use today?
The Eastgate is open, the King is in Residence! Whosoever will, may
come in!
Gatekeeper
.
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| User: "Dr. R. Knapp" |
|
| Title: Re: Most Christians never speak in tongues at all |
10 Dec 2006 01:25:52 PM |
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James wrote:
checker@flipper.net
Re: Most Christians never speak in tongues at all
In the United States, most Christians never need to speak in tongues.
Almost all of us speak and understand English. Those who don't
usually worship with their own groups, whether hispanic, chinese,
or whatever other language they speak at home, so tongues is not
necessary anywhere.
Some modern-day "pentecostals" claim that every Christian must speak
in tongues to receive the Baptism of the Holy Ghost, a practice
completely unknown to the Bible. The Bible says that not all
Christians speak in tongues, but and it says that all Christians are
Baptized in the Holy Ghost It also says that if you don't have the
Holy Ghost, you are not a Christian; you do not belong to Jesus at
all. So the modern-day "pentecostal" claim is contradictory to the
Bible.
Lutheran, Baptist, Evangelical Free, Bible Church, and other kinds of
Christians who never speak one word in tongues ever are indeed
Baptized by the Holy Ghost and are just as much "Christian" as any
modern-day "pentecostals" are. Tongues are not required anywhere in
the Bible.
in the Name of Jesus,
Checker
Checker,
Yes, the speaking in tongues was even predicted to end, once it
fulfilled it purpose of showing that God was ending the Jewish
religious system, and now supporting the Christian religious system. 1
Co 13:8,
"Love never fails; but if there are gifts of prophecy, they will be
done away; if there are tongues, they will cease; if there is
knowledge, it will be done away." (NASB)
Then this is not fulfilled and has not a thing to do with the Jewish
religious system, nothing at all, but it does point to the time it will
end and that is "if there is knowledge, it will be done away". We have
more knowledge now then ever in the history of mankind. So when the
knowledge is no more the tongues will be no more. It is so strange
that people look at a verse and do not think what they are reading,
only read it as someone else told them it was, when the verse proves
them wrong. Then as for the Jewish religious system is still working
great, ever hear of Israel? Go to New York, NY, and visit one of the
many Jewish areas, it is still going on, and is not done away, as
tongues are not done away till knowledge is done away with. It has not
happen and so today millions and millions of people full with the Holy
Spirit still do speak in tongues just as they did in the early Church.
Yet one would have to admit that if someone never learned a foreign
language, and then started to speak one instantly, that people would
call that miraculous. And miracles, when esp connected with religious
activities, are alleged to be from God.
Good for that, I agree.
But we would have to ask why God would still be using just only
tongues today, when back in the first century there were many other
'gifts' to men from God, such as prophecy, instant healings, raising
the dead, etc.
Then God is not still using just only tongues today, God is still doing
as He did in the early Church, healings, miracles and such, prophecy
and such is still going on, and God does still speak to His people in
these ways. I talked to a few people that did die and was dead for a
few hours and one even had a death certificate to prove it, she said
she died of heart problems and was pronounced dead, and was taken to
the morgue, she in the spirit was with Jesus in Heaven and after a few
hours was told she was still needed on earth, and woke up on the table
they were getting ready to do a autopsies on.
And why use tongues at all, since we now have the complete Bible to
show people that God has left those written Jewish Mosaic Laws, and
now backs Christianity. (see Jer 31:31;34)
Why use tongues at all is a good question, which you should ask Jesus
if you get to heaven, then since Jesus told his followers not to leave
till they recieved the Holy Spirit it is up to Jesus not us to answer.
We know what happen as it is in the Bible they spoke in tongues, I
heard on person say it was because the tongue is the last part of
person that will surrender to God, and by God using the tongue of the
believer it is a sign to them and others that God was in control of
their life and they loved God more then anything else.
James 3:5-10
5 Even so the tongue is a little member and boasts great things.
See how great a forest a little fire kindles! 6 And the tongue is a
fire, a world of iniquity. The tongue is so set among our members that
it defiles the whole body, and sets on fire the course of nature; and
it is set on fire by hell. 7 For every kind of beast and bird, of
reptile and creature of the sea, is tamed and has been tamed by
mankind. 8 But no man can tame the tongue . It is an unruly evil, full
of deadly poison. 9 With it we bless our God and Father, and with it we
curse men, who have been made in the similitude of God. NKJV
The verse says no man can tame the tongue but God can and so God choise
tongues to give to His people so the world and they would know all is
ok with God and they surrender their all for Jesus, as LORD and
Saviour.
But yet, apparently tongues go on inside those Pentecostal churches.
(and others) Interestingly, here is one documented case of just what
some of those tongues are saying. D. A. Hayes, in his book "The Gift
of Tongues", referred to an instance where a man refused to interpret
the speech of a woman who spoke in an unknown tongue because,
Why do you stop at Pentecostal Churches, every church denomination has
people that seek God and do speak in tongues. Methodist, Lutheran
Baptist and so on, in every church group God is moving by the Spirit
and people are speaking in tongues, it is said by the news that the
Pentecostal experience is world wide and is moving in to all churches.
"the language was the vilest of the vile."
Excuse me that is why the Bible says try the spirits, demons do come as
ministers of light the Bible says, and Satan loves to mock God, and I
would have no problem with a person in a church that people think is
speaking in tongues, is really full of the devil and would say such
vile things. In fact I have had that happen in a few churches and had
to ask for pray to cast that demon out in the name of Jesus, and they
were set free, and they were a different person after that. If the
person is not edifying God they are not speaking in the tongues of the
Holy Ghost but of the devil. The Hindu and Buddhist religions both
have tongues and it is for the devil and they make no bones about their
worship of demons and idols. Does everyone that goes to church
automatically saved and holy etc, because they happen to be in your
church building? The bible shows there are fakes and there is the
real, we should not be afraid of the real just because there is a
counterfeit. Be like not using CASH any more because some people print
their own money and there are lots of fake bills, out there, we do not
worry as we have a test to see what is real and what is not, the Bible
does also.
.. 1 Cor 14:26-27
How is it then, brethren? Whenever you come together, each of you has a
psalm, has a teaching, has a tongue, has a revelation, has an
interpretation. Let all things be done for edification.
NKJV
1 John 4:1-3
4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they
are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that
Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the
flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye
have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the
world. KJV
Now since God does"not tempt anyone with evil" (Jas 1:13), either God
has broken His own rule and put "vile" things in the mouth of that
person, or the source of those tongues are not from the God of the
Bible. The Bible itself shows the latter to be true.
What does God have to do with this, we know God does not tempt anyone
but the devil sure does, and vile things is part of his color and shows
it is Satan. The source has to be checked by people that do try the
spirits, and are filled with the Holy Spirit, and they can tell what is
and what is not God. All tongues are not from God, since it means
only langauges, which there are thousands if not a million worldwide,
that comes from people. You only used a part of the Bible to show the
latter, not the whole that does change the whole meaning of the
subject. Rev 3:10-11
10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep
thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world,
to try them that dwell upon the earth.
11 Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man
take thy crown. KJV
You see, there is a hour of temptation that God says will happen, so
even if God does not temp he does not stop temptation. As we can see
in the history of Peter, Paul and others in the bible. Matt 4:1 Then
Jesus was led up by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the
devil. NKJV
1 Cor 10:9 nor let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted , and
were destroyed by serpents; NKJV
1 Cor 10:12-13
12 Therefore let him who thinks he stands take heed lest he fall. 13 No
temptation has overtaken you except such as is common to man; but God
is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are
able, but with the temptation will also make the way of escape, that
you may be able to bear it. NKJV
James 1:14-15
14 But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and
enticed. 15 Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and
sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death. NKJV
Even written history shows those special gifts of the Holy Spirit
absent soon after the 1st century ended. Thus we read that these
powers were:
No there is no such history, I have read history that show the gifts
have always been in the church till now. Thus you read wrong.
"missing in the 2nd-century church, the writers of those days speaking
of them as a thing in the past-in the apostolic age, in fact." (The
Illustrated Bible Dictionary, edited by J. D. Douglas, 1980, Vol. 1,
p. 79.)
We can qoute you as a writer of this age, still doesn't mean such is no
more, only that you have limited knowleage or you believe it so, still
does not make it so.
Thus if Almighty God is not the one who is giving those people that
miraculous ability of speaking another language that they previously
did not know, then it is God's adversary who is doing it. It is "the
god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving" who is
doing it. (2 Co 4:4)
Like I said and the Bible said the "god" of this world is not the Lord
Jesus, it is the devil and he does fake a lot of things, and he would
curse God in tongues, in any tongue if he could get people to hear him.
Just because someone gives a person a three dollar bill doesn't mean
the government is making $3.00 bills, it they give a $20.00 bill it
could be fake or real, so one test it and they do not toss it and
refuse to accept any 20, 50, or 100 bill because someone they knew got
a false bill. We can see the work of the "god of this world" at work
today, by blinding the minds of people to the gifts of the Holy Spirit
and mocking tongues and anything else that God has blessed and given as
gifts. Do we hear the mocker or do we trust God that God is able to
keep that which is given unto him against such a day?
2 Tim 1:12 For the which cause I also suffer these things: nevertheless
I am not ashamed: for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded
that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against
that day. KJV
We are to test all the gifts and things, as the bible did say there
would be profane which the person you pointed to did. As well as vain
babbling as some are professing to be in the faith and are not. The
verses below show what the bible says, and it is the Bible that should
be our teacher by the Holy Spirit on these things, and not what we
think and what we want things to be, our way or no way. God is able to
protect His own.
1 Tim 6:20-21
20 O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding
profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so
called:
21 Which some professing have erred concerning the faith. Grace be with
thee. Amen.
KJV
Yes, the ability to speak in tongues can come from a source other than
God. Notice 1 Joh 4:1,
I glad we can see this is so.
"Beloved ones, do not believe every inspired expression ["every
spirit," KJ, RS], but test the inspired expressions to see whether
they originate with God, because many false prophets have gone forth
into the world." (NWT)
So lets test these things case on case and not condemn a whole group
because of a few. that leads to slavery and bondage which Jesus came to
set us free of.
Thus the Scriptures do not show that God uses the special gift of
tongues in our day. But that won't stop God's great adversary, Satan
the Devil, from using them.
Thus the Scriptures do disagree with you and does not show that gifts
special or not are not to be used today, as it was in the early church.
You seem to teach that the Devil here has power of the Holy Spirit and
can make Chirstians do things that God could not stop them from doing.
The great adversary here is the ones that let Satan use them, that is
for sure, only it is not the ones you are posting about and trying to
insult and disown. Satan is NOT in Control no matter what some people
think. Mark 6:7 And he called unto him the twelve, and began to send
them forth by two and two; and gave them power over unclean spirits;
KJV
Rev 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to
him will I give power over the nations: KJV
Sincerely, James
It was nice talking to you James.
Then the Jehovah's Witnesses is just another cult and I am suprise that
you would even care about what the Holy Spirit has to say on these
matters.
Have Jehovah's Witnesses questions?
Yours truly in Christ Jesus,
Raymond
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