| Topic: |
Religions > Bible |
| User: |
"John Rohrer" |
| Date: |
23 Jan 2004 12:03:53 AM |
| Object: |
Re: No evidence of God yet... |
Douglas wrote:
I am an agnostic. Now that that's out of the way, I do not believe that
the God portrayed in Christian mythology or any other religion is real or
even close. Prayer and worship is just a waste of time because no God is
listening.
Well, there's the power of expectations, hope, self-fulfilling prophecies,
mind-body medicine...what did I leave out...
I thought God was all powerful and perfect. Well this place
(Earth) is a disaster. I am not impressed with his work if that is the
case. I tried to talk to God, but he won't answer me back. He must not
like me.
Well, the bible says He gave us free will, right? As far as your "no reply", it
may be that you're not listening in the right way or in the right frame of mind.
Hey, it's plausible anyway.
All I have to say to a theist is prove it. They will freeze
up...naturally because even they know their beliefs are totally irrational.
They will often come back with "Prove he doesn't exist". The burden of
proof lies in the theist lap. They should convince me he is real, not scare
me into believing he is real with the "threat" of Hell after death. I
believe when you die, you die. No heaven or hell. Just nothing. It will
feel the way you felt before you were born.
I don't know how you can say to such a certain degree. It seems congruent with
common sense and observation, but common sense and observation may not be
equipped to give us any thorough understanding of mortality. Many perspectives
can be taken, and they all make sense to those who take them. For instance,
who's to say that there's nothing to the idea of reincarnation? Who's to say
we're not just the eyes of the universe winking open and shut as we watch
ourselves through the ages? Is the concept of personal identity inherently
misleading? If our identities are functions of our brief, local experience of
the universe, what are the implications? Alternately, if there is a more basic,
essential identity, would that not live in each locus of experience manifested
throughout the universe? ...food for thought anyway.
I can accept that. Theist
can't. So they decided to make up a nice place for good people and a bad
place for bad people. Sounds like this was made up a long time ago to keep
people in line and give them hope that "when I die, I will go to heaven."
Without religion, people would see no reason to live here. Anarchy would
happen.
Perhaps "civilized" culture (where the food is under lock and key) breeds
heirarchy and injustice and suppresses true tribal democracy. If you've toiled
under oppression your whole life while a privileged few commit atrocities with
impunity (as the system enables), divine justice is an understandably welcome
concept. "Keeping the masses in line" sounds to me like an attempt to save a
society whose social bonds were dissolved by and insidious atmosphere of control
and personal entitlement (the dangerous combination which seems to me to be at
the heart of the agricultural revolution which spawned the need for
"salvationist" religions. You see, indigenous cultures (still being extinguished
by civilization's zealous expansion) ascribe to "animistic" religions focused on
the interdependent harmony of life, rather than a way to cope with our current
disequilibruim. If you contest that the alternative is anarchy, I submit the
opinion that heirarchical governmental systems create the suffering which
"salvationist" religions medicate.
Heaven, sounds nice...lets go there and prove it once and for all...oh,
thats right. How convienient. We can't go there alive and there is no
scientific reason to believe in its existence anyway. Heaven is not real.
Period.
Well, who's to say unequivocally that it's not? Or maybe it's all a matter of
perspective. It seems real enough as a metaphor for creating a utopian society.
But then, utopianism seems inherently divisive, as it rejects compromise in
favor of the One Right Way which seems to cause so many conflicts.
God, sounds like an interesting person...I would like to meet him
now...oh, thats right. How convienient. He doesn't talk back and science
has yet to find his radio frequency. Either God doesn't care about us or he
doesn't exist.
Begging for opinions please.
Maybe we *are God in the sense that we're indistinguishably connected to every
perticle in the known universe. Maybe we're trying to playing God all over this
planet. Or maybe, just *maybe, there *is a real God out there who entrusted us
with this fine planet... which will cease to be when Christ returns to send the
non-Christian 2/3 of the planet straight to hell or purgatory along with all of
the Christian sects who happened to be wrong (oops) any any within the *right
faith who weren't quite able to follow all of the rules. Oh yeah, I forgot to
include any sentient beings inhabiting any of the other trillion planets
throughout the universe.Gee, hell sounds like the place to be to meet new
people.
Crossing my fingers,
John
.
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| User: "Douglas" |
|
| Title: Re: No evidence of God yet... |
25 Jan 2004 04:21:41 PM |
|
|
1 No comment. Don't quite understand what you are tyring to say.
2 The Bible is just fiction. When are people going to realize this?
Listening "in the right frame of mind". I have ears and they can hear just
fine. Why this spiritual mind set game? If I or he wants to talk and he is
all powerful, why don't he talk loudly, where we can all hear. No he
created me to burn because he knew my mind would need evidence to accept
him. He is rotten for doing that I think. Every theist should have a
reservation in their mind for the possiblity I already know, God may not
exist and you are hearing him because you wany to hear him, that goes back
to not want ing to accept the obvious, when you die you die and your "soul"
is obliviated. I can live and accept that. As far a morality, ne never
felt/seen/heard a God, yet I am still moral. A quote, "The worst thing to
happen to morality is be hijacked by religion"--Arthur C. Clark (pretty
sure)
3 I must admit that that response is interesting and intelligent.
4 Same a #3
5 Heaven is promised to give people something to look foward to after a
possibly horrible death. Thtats the only reason it would take a utopian
form, to look nice. If this perfectly moral and kind being created
Everything, i.e. nature. Nature lacks moral, kind, or nice features. Why is
it survival of the fittest instead of survival of the kindest?
6 I am not a fan of Christain, Islam, etc. perception of God. There is no
invisilbe guy floatin around whatching every thing I do. And I don't
believe in the possiblity of Heaven or Hell because there is not physical
evidence of there existence. I turned from atheist to agnostic when I heard
of deism, where God set all this in motion and is maybe whatching he
Creation explode and expand. I don't think he cares enough about the living
things in it, thus supplying no Heaven or Hell.
.
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| User: "Al Klein" |
|
| Title: Re: No evidence of God yet... |
24 Jan 2004 11:40:03 PM |
|
|
On Fri, 23 Jan 2004 01:03:53 -0500, John Rohrer <rohjoh@care2.com>
posted in alt.atheism:
Well, the bible says He gave us free will, right?
The bible also says that bats are birds, that insects have 4 legs and
that pi=3.
me into believing he is real with the "threat" of Hell after death. I
believe when you die, you die. No heaven or hell. Just nothing. It will
feel the way you felt before you were born.
I don't know how you can say to such a certain degree.
Some of us have been dead, so we can say it with a lot of certainty.
--
"A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything."
- Friedrich Nietzsche
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
rukbat at optonline dot net
.
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| User: "Michael Gray" |
|
| Title: Re: No evidence of God yet... |
25 Jan 2004 02:33:02 AM |
|
|
On Sun, 25 Jan 2004 05:40:03 GMT, Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid>
wrote:
On Fri, 23 Jan 2004 01:03:53 -0500, John Rohrer <rohjoh@care2.com>
posted in alt.atheism:
Well, the bible says He gave us free will, right?
The bible also says that bats are birds, that insects have 4 legs and
that pi=3.
me into believing he is real with the "threat" of Hell after death. I
believe when you die, you die. No heaven or hell. Just nothing. It will
feel the way you felt before you were born.
I don't know how you can say to such a certain degree.
Some of us have been dead, so we can say it with a lot of certainty.
Sorry to butt in, but I have been clinically dead (twice).
I am certain that I experienced nothing on either occasion.
I felt the way I felt before I was born.
Nothing. Nada. Zip. Zero.
No Heaven, No Hell.
No tunnel of light.
Nothing at all.
I don't know how Al can say so with certainty, but I certainly can...
.
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| User: "Al Klein" |
|
| Title: Re: No evidence of God yet... |
25 Jan 2004 01:44:49 PM |
|
|
On Sun, 25 Jan 2004 19:03:02 +1030, Michael Gray
<fleetg@newsguy.spam.com> posted in alt.atheism:
On Sun, 25 Jan 2004 05:40:03 GMT, Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid>
wrote:
On Fri, 23 Jan 2004 01:03:53 -0500, John Rohrer <rohjoh@care2.com>
posted in alt.atheism:
Well, the bible says He gave us free will, right?
The bible also says that bats are birds, that insects have 4 legs and
that pi=3.
me into believing he is real with the "threat" of Hell after death. I
believe when you die, you die. No heaven or hell. Just nothing. It will
feel the way you felt before you were born.
I don't know how you can say to such a certain degree.
Some of us have been dead, so we can say it with a lot of certainty.
Sorry to butt in, but I have been clinically dead (twice).
I am certain that I experienced nothing on either occasion.
I felt the way I felt before I was born.
Nothing. Nada. Zip. Zero.
No Heaven, No Hell.
No tunnel of light.
Nothing at all.
I don't know how Al can say so with certainty, but I certainly can...
Same way you can. And I experienced exactly the same "afterlife" you
did. All of a sudden it was later. Not much to recommend it if
that's what heaven is like.
--
"A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education and social
ties and needs; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he
had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death."
-Albert Einstein
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
rukbat at optonline dot net
.
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| User: "William" |
|
| Title: Re: No evidence of God yet... |
23 Jan 2004 04:32:39 AM |
|
|
On Fri, 23 Jan 2004 01:03:53 -0500, John Rohrer <rohjoh@care2.com>
wrote:
Douglas wrote:
I am an agnostic. Now that that's out of the way, I do not believe that
the God portrayed in Christian mythology or any other religion is real or
even close. Prayer and worship is just a waste of time because no God is
listening.
Well, there's the power of expectations, hope, self-fulfilling prophecies,
mind-body medicine...what did I leave out...
But God doesn't have to exist for that
I thought God was all powerful and perfect. Well this place
(Earth) is a disaster. I am not impressed with his work if that is the
case. I tried to talk to God, but he won't answer me back. He must not
like me.
Well, the bible says He gave us free will, right? As far as your "no reply", it
may be that you're not listening in the right way or in the right frame of mind.
Hey, it's plausible anyway.
Free will has nothing to do with all the natural horrors built into
this world or all the diseases and genetic defects. And, for those
things that could be put down to human free choices, 'free will' is
no excuse for letting someone choose to cause undeserved harm to
someone else.
And it is self contradictory to claim that an omniscient God doesn't
know how to get his message across.
All I have to say to a theist is prove it. They will freeze
up...naturally because even they know their beliefs are totally irrational.
They will often come back with "Prove he doesn't exist". The burden of
proof lies in the theist lap. They should convince me he is real, not scare
me into believing he is real with the "threat" of Hell after death. I
believe when you die, you die. No heaven or hell. Just nothing. It will
feel the way you felt before you were born.
I don't know how you can say to such a certain degree. It seems congruent with
common sense and observation, but common sense and observation may not be
equipped to give us any thorough understanding of mortality. Many perspectives
can be taken, and they all make sense to those who take them. For instance,
who's to say that there's nothing to the idea of reincarnation? Who's to say
we're not just the eyes of the universe winking open and shut as we watch
ourselves through the ages? Is the concept of personal identity inherently
misleading? If our identities are functions of our brief, local experience of
the universe, what are the implications? Alternately, if there is a more basic,
essential identity, would that not live in each locus of experience manifested
throughout the universe? ...food for thought anyway.
All these ideas are conceivable. But, along with thousands of others,
there is no evidence to support them.
[snip]
\William
.
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| User: "monkey_boy" |
|
| Title: Re: No evidence of God yet... |
23 Jan 2004 11:31:44 AM |
|
|
(William) wrote in message news:<4010f53b.920451@news-text.blueyonder.co.uk>...
On Fri, 23 Jan 2004 01:03:53 -0500, John Rohrer <rohjoh@care2.com>
wrote:
Douglas wrote:
I am an agnostic. Now that that's out of the way, I do not believe that
the God portrayed in Christian mythology or any other religion is real or
even close. Prayer and worship is just a waste of time because no God is
listening.
Well, there's the power of expectations, hope, self-fulfilling prophecies,
mind-body medicine...what did I leave out...
But God doesn't have to exist for that
I thought God was all powerful and perfect. Well this place
(Earth) is a disaster. I am not impressed with his work if that is the
case. I tried to talk to God, but he won't answer me back. He must not
like me.
Well, the bible says He gave us free will, right? As far as your "no reply", it
may be that you're not listening in the right way or in the right frame of mind.
Hey, it's plausible anyway.
Free will has nothing to do with all the natural horrors built into
this world or all the diseases and genetic defects. And, for those
things that could be put down to human free choices, 'free will' is
no excuse for letting someone choose to cause undeserved harm to
someone else.
And it is self contradictory to claim that an omniscient God doesn't
know how to get his message across.
All I have to say to a theist is prove it. They will freeze
up...naturally because even they know their beliefs are totally irrational.
They will often come back with "Prove he doesn't exist". The burden of
proof lies in the theist lap. They should convince me he is real, not scare
me into believing he is real with the "threat" of Hell after death. I
believe when you die, you die. No heaven or hell. Just nothing. It will
feel the way you felt before you were born.
I don't know how you can say to such a certain degree. It seems congruent with
common sense and observation, but common sense and observation may not be
equipped to give us any thorough understanding of mortality. Many perspectives
can be taken, and they all make sense to those who take them. For instance,
who's to say that there's nothing to the idea of reincarnation? Who's to say
we're not just the eyes of the universe winking open and shut as we watch
ourselves through the ages? Is the concept of personal identity inherently
misleading? If our identities are functions of our brief, local experience of
the universe, what are the implications? Alternately, if there is a more basic,
essential identity, would that not live in each locus of experience manifested
throughout the universe? ...food for thought anyway.
All these ideas are conceivable. But, along with thousands of others,
there is no evidence to support them.
[snip]
\William
From Live, Birds of Prey, song: Heaven
Artist: Live
Album: Birds Of Pray
Title: Heaven
....
I don't need no one to tell me about heaven
I look at my daughter, and I believe.
I don't need no proof when it comes to God and truth
I can see the sunset and I perceive
I don't need no one to tell me about heaven
I look at my daughter, and I believe.
I don't need no proof when it comes to God and truth
I can see the sunset
I can see the sunset
I can see the sunset
I don't need no one
I don't need no one, oh
I don't need no one
I don't need no one
To tell me about heaven
I believe
I believe it, yeah
Romans 1
18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the
godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their
wickedness, 19 since what may be known about God is plain to them,
because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of
the world God's invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine
nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been
made, so that men are without excuse.
When you see creation, and don't believe in a creator, you have way
more faith than I do. And what is the object of your faith? Chance?
Chance is nothing, and as nothing it cannot be the CAUSE of anything.
Your faith is in nothing. All this came from nothing. Or, in the
Biblical world view:
Genesis 1:1
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
Romans 1:25
They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served
created things rather than the Creator–who is forever praised. Amen.
Colossians 1:16
For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth,
visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or
authorities; all things were created by him and for him.
Do you want to beleive in nothing, or something?
How about the one who can lay his life down, and take it up again?
John 2
19 Jesus answered them, "Destroy this temple, and I will raise it
again in three days."
20 The Jews replied, "It has taken forty-six years to build this
temple, and you are going to raise it in three days?" 21 But the
temple he had spoken of was his body. 22 After he was raised from the
dead, his disciples recalled what he had said. Then they believed the
Scripture and the words that Jesus had spoken.
John 10
16 I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring
them also. They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one
flock and one shepherd. 17 The reason my Father loves me is that I lay
down my life--only to take it up again. 18 No one takes it from me,
but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down
and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my
Father."
Don't be afraid to trust in Jesus!
Romans 10:11
As the Scripture says, "Anyone who trusts in him will never be put
to shame."
Isaiah 28
16 So this is what the Sovereign LORD says:
"See, I lay a stone in Zion,
a tested stone,
a precious cornerstone for a sure foundation;
the one who trusts will never be dismayed
.
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| User: "Troy" |
|
| Title: Re: No evidence of God yet... |
23 Jan 2004 06:25:02 PM |
|
|
"monkey_boy" <jumper01@casagrande.com> wrote in message
news:7d4273c.0401230931.60acc6a1@posting.google.com...
telige@mail.clara.fl.com (William) wrote in message
news:<4010f53b.920451@news-text.blueyonder.co.uk>...
On Fri, 23 Jan 2004 01:03:53 -0500, John Rohrer <rohjoh@care2.com>
wrote:
Douglas wrote:
I am an agnostic. Now that that's out of the way, I do not believe
that
the God portrayed in Christian mythology or any other religion is
real or
even close. Prayer and worship is just a waste of time because no
God is
listening.
Well, there's the power of expectations, hope, self-fulfilling
prophecies,
mind-body medicine...what did I leave out...
But God doesn't have to exist for that
I thought God was all powerful and perfect. Well this place
(Earth) is a disaster. I am not impressed with his work if that is
the
case. I tried to talk to God, but he won't answer me back. He must
not
like me.
Well, the bible says He gave us free will, right? As far as your "no
reply", it
may be that you're not listening in the right way or in the right frame
of mind.
Hey, it's plausible anyway.
Free will has nothing to do with all the natural horrors built into
this world or all the diseases and genetic defects. And, for those
things that could be put down to human free choices, 'free will' is
no excuse for letting someone choose to cause undeserved harm to
someone else.
And it is self contradictory to claim that an omniscient God doesn't
know how to get his message across.
All I have to say to a theist is prove it. They will freeze
up...naturally because even they know their beliefs are totally
irrational.
They will often come back with "Prove he doesn't exist". The burden
of
proof lies in the theist lap. They should convince me he is real, not
scare
me into believing he is real with the "threat" of Hell after death.
I
believe when you die, you die. No heaven or hell. Just nothing. It
will
feel the way you felt before you were born.
I don't know how you can say to such a certain degree. It seems
congruent with
common sense and observation, but common sense and observation may not
be
equipped to give us any thorough understanding of mortality. Many
perspectives
can be taken, and they all make sense to those who take them. For
instance,
who's to say that there's nothing to the idea of reincarnation? Who's
to say
we're not just the eyes of the universe winking open and shut as we
watch
ourselves through the ages? Is the concept of personal identity
inherently
misleading? If our identities are functions of our brief, local
experience of
the universe, what are the implications? Alternately, if there is a
more basic,
essential identity, would that not live in each locus of experience
manifested
throughout the universe? ...food for thought anyway.
All these ideas are conceivable. But, along with thousands of others,
there is no evidence to support them.
[snip]
\William
From Live, Birds of Prey, song: Heaven
Artist: Live
Album: Birds Of Pray
Title: Heaven
<snipped song verses and scriptue quotes>
Maybe we are all gods in a sense. What if the power of the human mind is so
strong, that if millions of people believe the same thing, they could
actually create an afterlife. Exactly like their perception of what heaven
will be like for them. Right down to streets of gold. And, what if C - A - T
really spells dog? Very interesting. ;-)
Cheers,
Troy
.
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|
| User: "Michael Gray" |
|
| Title: Re: No evidence of God yet... |
23 Jan 2004 05:41:55 PM |
|
|
On 23 Jan 2004 09:31:44 -0800, (monkey_boy)
wrote:
telige@mail.clara.fl.com (William) wrote in message news:<4010f53b.920451@news-text.blueyonder.co.uk>...
On Fri, 23 Jan 2004 01:03:53 -0500, John Rohrer <rohjoh@care2.com>
wrote:
Douglas wrote:
I am an agnostic. Now that that's out of the way, I do not believe that
the God portrayed in Christian mythology or any other religion is real or
even close. Prayer and worship is just a waste of time because no God is
listening.
Well, there's the power of expectations, hope, self-fulfilling prophecies,
mind-body medicine...what did I leave out...
But God doesn't have to exist for that
I thought God was all powerful and perfect. Well this place
(Earth) is a disaster. I am not impressed with his work if that is the
case. I tried to talk to God, but he won't answer me back. He must not
like me.
Well, the bible says He gave us free will, right? As far as your "no reply", it
may be that you're not listening in the right way or in the right frame of mind.
Hey, it's plausible anyway.
Free will has nothing to do with all the natural horrors built into
this world or all the diseases and genetic defects. And, for those
things that could be put down to human free choices, 'free will' is
no excuse for letting someone choose to cause undeserved harm to
someone else.
And it is self contradictory to claim that an omniscient God doesn't
know how to get his message across.
All I have to say to a theist is prove it. They will freeze
up...naturally because even they know their beliefs are totally irrational.
They will often come back with "Prove he doesn't exist". The burden of
proof lies in the theist lap. They should convince me he is real, not scare
me into believing he is real with the "threat" of Hell after death. I
believe when you die, you die. No heaven or hell. Just nothing. It will
feel the way you felt before you were born.
I don't know how you can say to such a certain degree. It seems congruent with
common sense and observation, but common sense and observation may not be
equipped to give us any thorough understanding of mortality. Many perspectives
can be taken, and they all make sense to those who take them. For instance,
who's to say that there's nothing to the idea of reincarnation? Who's to say
we're not just the eyes of the universe winking open and shut as we watch
ourselves through the ages? Is the concept of personal identity inherently
misleading? If our identities are functions of our brief, local experience of
the universe, what are the implications? Alternately, if there is a more basic,
essential identity, would that not live in each locus of experience manifested
throughout the universe? ...food for thought anyway.
All these ideas are conceivable. But, along with thousands of others,
there is no evidence to support them.
[snip]
\William
From Live, Birds of Prey, song: Heaven
Artist: Live
Album: Birds Of Pray
Title: Heaven
...
I don't need no one to tell me about heaven
I look at my daughter, and I believe.
I don't need no proof when it comes to God and truth
I can see the sunset and I perceive
I don't need no one to tell me about heaven
I look at my daughter, and I believe.
I don't need no proof when it comes to God and truth
I can see the sunset
I can see the sunset
I can see the sunset
I don't need no one
I don't need no one, oh
I don't need no one
I don't need no one
To tell me about heaven
I believe
I believe it, yeah
Romans 1
18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the
godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their
wickedness, 19 since what may be known about God is plain to them,
because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of
the world God's invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine
nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been
made, so that men are without excuse.
When you see creation, and don't believe in a creator, you have way
more faith than I do. And what is the object of your faith? Chance?
Chance is nothing, and as nothing it cannot be the CAUSE of anything.
Your faith is in nothing. All this came from nothing. Or, in the
Biblical world view:
Genesis 1:1
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
Romans 1:25
They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served
created things rather than the Creator–who is forever praised. Amen.
Colossians 1:16
For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth,
visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or
authorities; all things were created by him and for him.
Do you want to beleive in nothing, or something?
How about the one who can lay his life down, and take it up again?
John 2
19 Jesus answered them, "Destroy this temple, and I will raise it
again in three days."
20 The Jews replied, "It has taken forty-six years to build this
temple, and you are going to raise it in three days?" 21 But the
temple he had spoken of was his body. 22 After he was raised from the
dead, his disciples recalled what he had said. Then they believed the
Scripture and the words that Jesus had spoken.
John 10
16 I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring
them also. They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one
flock and one shepherd. 17 The reason my Father loves me is that I lay
down my life--only to take it up again. 18 No one takes it from me,
but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down
and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my
Father."
Don't be afraid to trust in Jesus!
Romans 10:11
As the Scripture says, "Anyone who trusts in him will never be put
to shame."
Isaiah 28
16 So this is what the Sovereign LORD says:
"See, I lay a stone in Zion,
a tested stone,
a precious cornerstone for a sure foundation;
the one who trusts will never be dismayed
I don't consider any of the above to be evidence, in any sense of the
word.
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| User: "Douglas" |
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| Title: Re: No evidence of God yet... |
25 Jan 2004 04:30:27 PM |
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I consider the above from monkey_boy babbling nonsense of Christain
Mythology or just plain nuts. :)
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| User: "Ray Wesley Kinserlow Jr." |
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| Title: Re: No evidence of God yet... |
12 Feb 2004 09:56:28 PM |
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On Sun, 25 Jan 2004 16:30:27 -0600, "Douglas"
<douglas.nospam@i-55.com> wrote:
I consider the above from monkey_boy babbling nonsense of Christain
Mythology or just plain nuts. :)
Don't you recognize a troll when you see one? Doesn't the non
sequitur of someone with the handle of "monkey_boy" spouting christian
garbage strike you as odd?
Ray Wesley Kinserlow Jr.
Lubbock, Texas
kinserlow at hotmail dot com
homepage: www.members.cox.net/rkinserlow
webmaster: www.d16acbl.org/U197/index.html
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| User: "Arfurarseache" |
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| Title: Re: No evidence of God yet... |
14 Feb 2004 06:10:12 AM |
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Iv'e been reading these posts in absolute wonder and have come to the
conclusion that these groups are for American teenagers or puerile
narrow-minded people. You consider yourselves mature adults? Read back
over your posts and be embarrassed.
Stupid name-calling back and forth and have you achieved anything more
than some sense of self rightiousness? No wonder the world is in the
state its in. Wake up and do something instead of sitting in front of
your computer screen bitching and moaning!
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| User: "Leonard Caillouet" |
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| Title: Re: No evidence of God yet... |
14 Feb 2004 10:22:04 AM |
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"Arfurarseache" <strum@nme.com> wrote in message
news:28c50562.0402140410.666bff5c@posting.google.com...
Iv'e been reading these posts in absolute wonder and have come to the
conclusion that these groups are for American teenagers or puerile
narrow-minded people. You consider yourselves mature adults? Read back
over your posts and be embarrassed.
Stupid name-calling back and forth and have you achieved anything more
than some sense of self rightiousness? No wonder the world is in the
state its in. Wake up and do something instead of sitting in front of
your computer screen bitching and moaning!
Amen to that. LOL. Maybe there is another rational, reasonable, tolerant
soul reading these groups after all.
Leonard Caillouet
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| User: "JessHC" |
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| Title: Re: No evidence of God yet... |
15 Feb 2004 10:09:00 AM |
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(Arfurarseache) wrote in message news:<28c50562.0402140410.666bff5c@posting.google.com>...
Iv'e been reading these posts in absolute wonder and have come to the
conclusion that these groups are for American teenagers or puerile
narrow-minded people. You consider yourselves mature adults? Read back
over your posts and be embarrassed.
Stupid name-calling back and forth and have you achieved anything more
than some sense of self rightiousness? No wonder the world is in the
state its in. Wake up and do something instead of sitting in front of
your computer screen bitching and moaning!
It's good you showed up to tell us what we should be doing.
.
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| User: "ZenIsWhen" |
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| Title: Re: No evidence of God yet... |
15 Feb 2004 11:45:16 AM |
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"JessHC" <jesshc@phantomemail.com> wrote in message
news:d58e3ac.0402150808.3ee0a470@posting.google.com...
strum@nme.com (Arfurarseache) wrote in message
news:<28c50562.0402140410.666bff5c@posting.google.com>...
Iv'e been reading these posts in absolute wonder and have come to the
conclusion that these groups are for American teenagers or puerile
narrow-minded people. You consider yourselves mature adults? Read back
over your posts and be embarrassed.
Stupid name-calling back and forth and have you achieved anything more
than some sense of self rightiousness? No wonder the world is in the
state its in. Wake up and do something instead of sitting in front of
your computer screen bitching and moaning!
It's good you showed up to tell us what we should be doing.
It's a good think he sat in front of his computer and posted that, instead
of doing something else.
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: No evidence of God yet... |
24 Jan 2004 07:49:12 AM |
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On Fri, 23 Jan 2004 10:32:39 GMT, (William) wrote:
Free will has nothing to do with all the natural horrors built into
this world or all the diseases and genetic defects.
They aren't natural. They are man-caused. We make pretty bad gods, which we
tried to do just before God kicked us out of the garden.
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: No evidence of God yet... |
24 Jan 2004 11:40:44 PM |
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On Sat, 24 Jan 2004 07:49:12 -0600, duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> posted
in alt.atheism:
On Fri, 23 Jan 2004 10:32:39 GMT, (William) wrote:
Free will has nothing to do with all the natural horrors built into
this world or all the diseases and genetic defects.
They aren't natural. They are man-caused.
Viruses and genetics are natural, Earl.
--
"Damn. Looks like all of usenet agrees that you don't have the logical
faculties to prove the statement 'dogshit is not peanut butter' if we
gave you a jar of each and a box of crackers" - John Hattan to Tichy
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
rukbat at optonline dot net
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| User: "William" |
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| Title: Re: No evidence of God yet... |
24 Jan 2004 11:15:03 AM |
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On Sat, 24 Jan 2004 07:49:12 -0600, duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote:
On Fri, 23 Jan 2004 10:32:39 GMT, (William) wrote:
Free will has nothing to do with all the natural horrors built into
this world or all the diseases and genetic defects.
They aren't natural. They are man-caused. We make pretty bad gods, which we
tried to do just before God kicked us out of the garden.
OK, as just one examples, show the evidence that the malaria parasite
is man-caused. Note that it has been around for thousands of years.
Note that it is responsible for more deaths than all the wars in
history. You have made an accusation. No hand waving, no vague
religious notions. Provide real hard EVIDENCE or shut up.
William
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| User: "Libertarius" |
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| Title: Re: No evidence of God yet... |
24 Jan 2004 02:40:47 PM |
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William wrote:
On Sat, 24 Jan 2004 07:49:12 -0600, duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote:
On Fri, 23 Jan 2004 10:32:39 GMT, (William) wrote:
Free will has nothing to do with all the natural horrors built into
this world or all the diseases and genetic defects.
They aren't natural. They are man-caused. We make pretty bad gods, which we
tried to do just before God kicked us out of the garden.
OK, as just one examples, show the evidence that the malaria parasite
is man-caused. Note that it has been around for thousands of years.
Note that it is responsible for more deaths than all the wars in
history. You have made an accusation. No hand waving, no vague
religious notions. Provide real hard EVIDENCE or shut up.
William
===>He seems to believe in the Gnostic principle that bad things were
created by a different being.
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| User: "John Ings" |
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| Title: Re: No evidence of God yet... |
24 Jan 2004 08:58:34 AM |
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On Sat, 24 Jan 2004 07:49:12 -0600, duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote:
Free will has nothing to do with all the natural horrors built into
this world or all the diseases and genetic defects.
They aren't natural. They are man-caused.
Diseases and genetic defects are man caused?
The Bible says they are caused by demons!
In fact they are quite natural phenomena, and not caused by either
supernatural spooks or by man.
We make pretty bad gods,
Indeed we do!
which we
tried to do just before God kicked us out of the garden.
There was no Garden, and no Adam and Eve who were kicked out either.
The God that is supposed to have done so is as much a bad myth as any
other man has invented for himself.
## Man cannot make even a microbe, but invents gods by the dozen
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| User: "Libertarius" |
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| Title: Re: No evidence of God yet... GNOSTIC??? |
24 Jan 2004 10:10:33 AM |
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John Ings wrote:
On Sat, 24 Jan 2004 07:49:12 -0600, duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote:
Free will has nothing to do with all the natural horrors built into
this world or all the diseases and genetic defects.
They aren't natural. They are man-caused.
Diseases and genetic defects are man caused?
The Bible says they are caused by demons!
===>Which is a contradiction, if you believe John 1:3
"All things were made through him.
Without him was not anything made that has been made"
"Caused by demons" is GNOSTIC thinking!
In fact they are quite natural phenomena, and not caused by either
supernatural spooks or by man.
===>ABSOLUTELY CORRECT.
Except that the Bible is so confusing for Christians, they cannot make
up their minds which of the writers to believe.
We make pretty bad gods,
Indeed we do!
===>WHAT A CONFESSION from a theist! ;-)
which we
tried to do just before God kicked us out of the garden.
There was no Garden, and no Adam and Eve who were kicked out either.
The God that is supposed to have done so is as much a bad myth as any
other man has invented for himself.
===>CORRECT.
They would rather believe ancient Hebrew fairy tales than accept reality.
-- L.
## Man cannot make even a microbe, but invents gods by the dozen
.
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| User: "Elroy Willis" |
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| Title: Re: No evidence of God yet... GNOSTIC??? |
25 Jan 2004 08:19:01 AM |
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Libertarius <Libertarius@Nothing_But_The.Truth> wrote in alt.atheism
John Ings wrote:
duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote:
Free will has nothing to do with all the natural horrors built into
this world or all the diseases and genetic defects.
They aren't natural. They are man-caused.
Diseases and genetic defects are man caused?
The Bible says they are caused by demons!
===>Which is a contradiction, if you believe John 1:3
"All things were made through him.
Without him was not anything made that has been made"
"Caused by demons" is GNOSTIC thinking!
Jesus apparently believed in demons, so that must make him
a Gnostic, if he even existed at all?
In fact they are quite natural phenomena, and not caused by either
supernatural spooks or by man.
===>ABSOLUTELY CORRECT.
Except that the Bible is so confusing for Christians, they cannot make
up their minds which of the writers to believe.
Surely they should believe in demons if Jesus believed in demons,
shouldn't they? What's good for the shepherd is good for the sheep,
right?
--
Elroy Willis
EAP Chief Editor and Newshound
http://web2.airmail.net/~elo/news
.
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| User: "Libertarius" |
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| Title: Re: No evidence of God yet... GNOSTIC??? |
25 Jan 2004 10:18:23 AM |
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Elroy Willis wrote:
Libertarius <Libertarius@Nothing_But_The.Truth> wrote in alt.atheism
John Ings wrote:
duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote:
Free will has nothing to do with all the natural horrors built into
this world or all the diseases and genetic defects.
They aren't natural. They are man-caused.
Diseases and genetic defects are man caused?
The Bible says they are caused by demons!
===>Which is a contradiction, if you believe John 1:3
"All things were made through him.
Without him was not anything made that has been made"
"Caused by demons" is GNOSTIC thinking!
Jesus apparently believed in demons, so that must make him
a Gnostic, if he even existed at all?
===>He appears to have been a militant PHARISAIC ZEALOT.
The Pharisees imported a belief in the Evil Spirit (Ahriman/Devil)
from Zoroastrianism. (Sons of Light vs. Sons of Darkness, etc.)
Gnosticism is a takeoff from Zoroastrian dualistic theology.
It identifies YHWH with Ahriman, postulating a greater "GOD"
who is above it all. After all, according to Isaiah, YHWH claims
to be the creator of evil.
In fact they are quite natural phenomena, and not caused by either
supernatural spooks or by man.
===>ABSOLUTELY CORRECT.
Except that the Bible is so confusing for Christians, they cannot make
up their minds which of the writers to believe.
Surely they should believe in demons if Jesus believed in demons,
shouldn't they? What's good for the shepherd is good for the sheep,
right?
===>And most of them do. -- L.
.
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| User: "bob young" |
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| Title: Re: No evidence of God yet... GNOSTIC??? |
30 Jan 2004 04:57:18 AM |
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Libertarius wrote:
John Ings wrote:
On Sat, 24 Jan 2004 07:49:12 -0600, duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote:
Free will has nothing to do with all the natural horrors built into
this world or all the diseases and genetic defects.
They aren't natural. They are man-caused.
Diseases and genetic defects are man caused?
The Bible says they are caused by demons!
===>Which is a contradiction, if you believe John 1:3
"All things were made through him.
Without him was not anything made that has been made"
"Caused by demons" is GNOSTIC thinking!
In fact they are quite natural phenomena, and not caused by either
supernatural spooks or by man.
===>ABSOLUTELY CORRECT.
Except that the Bible is so confusing for Christians, they cannot make
up their minds which of the writers to believe.
We make pretty bad gods,
Indeed we do!
===>WHAT A CONFESSION from a theist! ;-)
which we
tried to do just before God kicked us out of the garden.
There was no Garden, and no Adam and Eve who were kicked out either.
The God that is supposed to have done so is as much a bad myth as any
other man has invented for himself.
===>CORRECT.
They would rather believe ancient Hebrew fairy tales than accept reality.
Theists have a problem accepting reality:-
They have been believers for a long time
Their religion has beautiful aspects to it [but these are all made by man]
They are scared of dying and want to live forever [like early simple folk
did]
They are impressed by churches, temples and cathedrals [all made by man
exactly for the purpose]
They admire religious music anf hymns [some are impressive but all are
composed by man]
They are impressed by priests, bishops, mullas, cardinals etc in their gold
covered costumes [designed and made by man]
They see millions of believers and for some strange reason feel that if this
many believe there must be a god - 'the majority is always wrong' [a saying
of man]
They devote their entire life believing in a myth on the pretext that 'well
He *might* exist, no-one has proven to me that he doesn't! [the weakness of
man]
Bob
A Brit. in Hong Kong
All gods are homemade, and it is we who pull their strings, and so, give
them the power to pull ours.
[Aldous Huxley 1894-1963]
-- L.
## Man cannot make even a microbe, but invents gods by the dozen
.
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| User: "duke" |
|
| Title: Re: No evidence of God yet... |
24 Jan 2004 10:42:52 AM |
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On Sat, 24 Jan 2004 06:58:34 -0800, John Ings <nodamned@spam.org> wrote:
They aren't natural. They are man-caused.
Diseases and genetic defects are man caused?
The Bible says they are caused by demons!
Of course you don't understand. Mankind was kicked out of the garden for trying
to play God. Diseses and genetic defects are our doing for being such rotten
gods.
In fact they are quite natural phenomena, and not caused by either
supernatural spooks or by man.
We make pretty bad gods,
Indeed we do!
Hence disease and genetic defects.
which we
tried to do just before God kicked us out of the garden.
There was no Garden, and no Adam and Eve who were kicked out either.
Easy to say - impossible to support. Let's see your evidence.
The God that is supposed to have done so is as much a bad myth as any
other man has invented for himself.
How do YOU know?
## Man cannot make even a microbe, but invents gods by the dozen
For some, gods are drunkenness, gambling, food, sex, etc.
.
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| User: "ZenIsWhen" |
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| Title: Re: No evidence of God yet... |
24 Jan 2004 02:49:06 PM |
|
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"duke" <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote in message
news:kt7510l738mauermaovuk6h6ckt31shb7h@4ax.com...
On Sat, 24 Jan 2004 06:58:34 -0800, John Ings <nodamned@spam.org> wrote:
They aren't natural. They are man-caused.
Diseases and genetic defects are man caused?
The Bible says they are caused by demons!
Of course you don't understand. Mankind was kicked out of the garden for
trying
to play God. Diseses and genetic defects are our doing for being such
rotten
gods.
Evidence?
In fact they are quite natural phenomena, and not caused by either
supernatural spooks or by man.
We make pretty bad gods,
Indeed we do!
Hence disease and genetic defects.
which we
tried to do just before God kicked us out of the garden.
There was no Garden, and no Adam and Eve who were kicked out either.
Easy to say - impossible to support. Let's see your evidence.
Given the literal interpretatino, that Adam and Eve actually existed .. and
within the past 6,000 years .. it is refuted by the myriad of facts
indicating mankind is much older than that.
Now .. would you like to provide ANY shred of evidence that Adam and Eve,
and the "garden" really existed?
The God that is supposed to have done so is as much a bad myth as any
other man has invented for himself.
How do YOU know?
Becasue there has never been one valid shred of evidence to support ANY
claims about ANY god(s).
## Man cannot make even a microbe, but invents gods by the dozen
For some, gods are drunkenness, gambling, food, sex, etc.
Oh ... that deranged argument!
.
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| User: "duke" |
|
| Title: Re: No evidence of God yet... |
24 Jan 2004 05:45:01 PM |
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On Sat, 24 Jan 2004 15:49:06 -0500, "ZenIsWhen" <ZenIsWhen@anywhere.com> wrote:
"duke" <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote in message
news:kt7510l738mauermaovuk6h6ckt31shb7h@4ax.com...
On Sat, 24 Jan 2004 06:58:34 -0800, John Ings <nodamned@spam.org> wrote:
They aren't natural. They are man-caused.
Diseases and genetic defects are man caused?
The Bible says they are caused by demons!
Of course you don't understand. Mankind was kicked out of the garden for
trying
to play God. Diseses and genetic defects are our doing for being such
rotten
gods.
Evidence?
Read your bible.
Easy to say - impossible to support. Let's see your evidence.
Given the literal interpretatino, that Adam and Eve actually existed .. and
within the past 6,000 years .. it is refuted by the myriad of facts
indicating mankind is much older than that.
Of course mankind is older than that. Do you actually believe everything in the
bible is literal?
Now .. would you like to provide ANY shred of evidence that Adam and Eve,
and the "garden" really existed?
It was way before my time. I believe.
The God that is supposed to have done so is as much a bad myth as any
other man has invented for himself.
How do YOU know?
Becasue there has never been one valid shred of evidence to support ANY
claims about ANY god(s).
Oops, but you are quite wrong.
## Man cannot make even a microbe, but invents gods by the dozen
For some, gods are drunkenness, gambling, food, sex, etc.
Oh ... that deranged argument!
It's all part of satan's act. When you're ready to get serious in this
"discussion" let me know.
.
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| User: "ZenIsWhen" |
|
| Title: Re: No evidence of God yet... |
24 Jan 2004 11:10:32 PM |
|
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"duke" <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote in message
news:3n0610903908vv8v38ht0j60qfj4i1pr4h@4ax.com...
On Sat, 24 Jan 2004 15:49:06 -0500, "ZenIsWhen" <ZenIsWhen@anywhere.com>
wrote:
"duke" <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote in message
news:kt7510l738mauermaovuk6h6ckt31shb7h@4ax.com...
On Sat, 24 Jan 2004 06:58:34 -0800, John Ings <nodamned@spam.org>
wrote:
They aren't natural. They are man-caused.
Diseases and genetic defects are man caused?
The Bible says they are caused by demons!
Of course you don't understand. Mankind was kicked out of the garden
for
trying
to play God. Diseses and genetic defects are our doing for being such
rotten
gods.
Evidence?
Read your bible.
Ancient fables and fairy tales are not evidence.
Easy to say - impossible to support. Let's see your evidence.
Given the literal interpretatino, that Adam and Eve actually existed ..
and
within the past 6,000 years .. it is refuted by the myriad of facts
indicating mankind is much older than that.
Of course mankind is older than that. Do you actually believe everything
in the
bible is literal?
Of course not .....but if you're going to claim Adam and Eve actually
existed ....the "garden" acutally existed .. and there was such a silly
thing as "the fall" ......are YOU going to claim that everything in the
bible is literal , or only the things YOU select are? ?
Now .. would you like to provide ANY shred of evidence that Adam and Eve,
and the "garden" really existed?
It was way before my time. I believe.
IOW ....you go nothing.
The God that is supposed to have done so is as much a bad myth as any
other man has invented for himself.
How do YOU know?
Becasue there has never been one valid shred of evidence to support ANY
claims about ANY god(s).
Oops, but you are quite wrong.
Then show it? Show it to science, so they can verify god .. show it to the
world, so there will be no more dis-believers.
You won't, you can't .. because there is none.
The best you can do is repeat the insane and deranged claims others have
regurgitated for centuries.
## Man cannot make even a microbe, but invents gods by the dozen
For some, gods are drunkenness, gambling, food, sex, etc.
Oh ... that deranged argument!
It's all part of satan's act. When you're ready to get serious in this
"discussion" let me know.
Satan who?
You also have no evidence that there is a Satan.
When you want to get serious enough to talk about the difference between
valid reality, and your religous delusions and empty claims, let me know.
.
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: No evidence of God yet... |
25 Jan 2004 09:10:30 AM |
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On Sun, 25 Jan 2004 00:10:32 -0500, "ZenIsWhen" <ZenIsWhen@anywhere.com> wrote:
Of course you don't understand. Mankind was kicked out of the garden
for trying > >> to play God. Diseses and genetic defects are our doing for being such
rotten gods.
Evidence?
Read your bible.
Ancient fables and fairy tales are not evidence.
Sure they are.
ev·i·dence (µv“¹-d…ns) n. 1. A thing or things helpful in forming a conclusion
or judgment:
Of course mankind is older than that. Do you actually believe everything
in the bible is literal?
Of course not .....but if you're going to claim Adam and Eve actually
existed ....the "garden" acutally existed .. and there was such a silly
thing as "the fall" ......are YOU going to claim that everything in the
bible is literal , or only the things YOU select are? ?
Personally it is beyond my capacity to state which is literally true and which
is not - the same problem you have.
Now .. would you like to provide ANY shred of evidence that Adam and Eve,
and the "garden" really existed?
It was way before my time. I believe.
IOW ....you go nothing.
The same you have for the opposite position.
The God that is supposed to have done so is as much a bad myth as any
other man has invented for himself.
How do YOU know?
Becasue there has never been one valid shred of evidence to support ANY
claims about ANY god(s).
Oops, but you are quite wrong.
Then show it? Show it to science, so they can verify god .. show it to the
world, so there will be no more dis-believers.
My personal favorite is the big bang professed by science: An infinitely dense
infinitely small "point" of mass and energy suddenly appeared from whence they
was nothing "before", and this point explosed outward to form our universe.
Also included in this is the concept of "time".
You won't, you can't .. because there is none.
The best you can do is repeat the insane and deranged claims others have
regurgitated for centuries.
One day science will prove the existance of God.
It's all part of satan's act. When you're ready to get serious in this
"discussion" let me know.
Satan who?
You also have no evidence that there is a Satan.
"Adversary." An absolute fact.
When you want to get serious enough to talk about the difference between
valid reality, and your religous delusions and empty claims, let me know.
When you have so much as one shred to back up your own beliefs, let me know.
.
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