| Topic: |
Religions > Bible |
| User: |
"V" |
| Date: |
03 Oct 2007 08:33:24 AM |
| Object: |
Re: People are catching on |
On Oct 3, 7:47 am, Don Martin <drdonmar...@comcast.net> wrote:
http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1667639,00.html?xid=3Drs...
Good article - Thanks!
When such theists do not walk the talk they espouse, they probably
need a little help. After all, we are all human and make mistakes, we
get off track and take the wrong direction once in a while. When this
happens give em some KIND help and let go of the desire of the hate
filled message you are tempted to deliver
But...the facts are this: when people are devoid of religion...they
generally stink as humans.
Until atheism can replace theist based religion as a VIABLE and REAL
way to inner peace, with a reverence of humanity, it can never take
over the world and extinguish religion.
When you get rid of one thing, it makes room for another.
Sure atheist can succeed at pointing to the flaws of religious
thought, but they have nothing to replace the flaws with.
So theists choose the lesser of two evils while on earth, with the
hopes of hitting the jackpot in the hereafter.
When atheists become successes at 'the religion of humanity,' you may
become more successful at replacing theist based religion.
Until that time..."a mans mind may be likened to a garden which may be
intelligently cultivated or allowed to run wild; but whether
cultivated or neglected, it must and will bring forth. If no useful
seeds are put into it, then an abundance of useless 'weed seeds' will
fall therein and will continue to produce their kind." ~ James Allen
And religion does a good job at controlling the weeds.
In its history, organized atheism has never succeeded at replacing
religion with real humanity and compassion.
The atheists talk a good story, but atheists fail miserably when it
comes to practical application of the 'peace talk.'
The reason people generally don't like the atheist is that they are an
unknown quantity. With Christians, Buddhists, Jews, Muslims, (to a
lesser degree) people can look at their religious guidelines and see
what the person stands for and how they supposedly apply their
spiritual beliefs in everyday life.
In addition, many atheists here are extreme, militant atheists and
that draws attention, albeit negative attention, through their hate
filled message.
The moderate theist accepts a moderate atheist, just as a moderate
atheist accepts a moderate theist. It is out of balance, extreme views
that sets one apart.
Problems within society do not come from Muslims...the problems come
from extreme Muslims. Same with all the rest whether Christian or
Atheist...seek balance...seek inner peace within and with all.
As soon as one becomes a dogmatic skeptic or a dogmatic theist, they
are headed for extremism and they put truth on the back burner.
Greywolf brought up a few complaints about Christians that are not
treating him right.
So, again give em some KIND help and let go of the desire of the hate
filled message you are tempted to deliver.
In my own life, I seldom get much success by guiding people on the
right track, but I still work in the right direction, and do not have
expectations of success or failure with my work...I just do it!
Remember, expectations are pre-planned resentments, so work blind when
it comes to expectations.
Even though most atheists are unknown quantities, the atheists have a
set of guidelines to live by if they are secular humanists.
So if you are dealing with an atheist that is rubbing you wrong, ask
them if they are a secular humanist and if so, review the creed of
their 'religion' and the Affirmations of Humanism with them and give
em a little help if need be. We are all here to help each other
out...are we not?
Atheist Creed http://www.atheists.org/Atheism/
An Atheist loves his fellow man instead of god. An Atheist believes
that heaven is something for which we should work now - here on earth
for all men together to enjoy.
An Atheist believes that he can get no help through prayer but that he
must find in himself the inner conviction, and strength to meet life,
to grapple with it, to subdue it and enjoy it.
An Atheist believes that only in a knowledge of himself and a
knowledge of his fellow man can he find the understanding that will
help to a life of fulfillment. He seeks to know himself and his fellow
man rather than to know a god. An Atheist believes that a hospital
should be built instead of a church.
An Atheist believes that a deed must be done instead of a prayer
said.
An Atheist strives for involvement in life and not escape into death.
He wants disease conquered, poverty vanquished, war eliminated. He
wants man to understand and love man.
He wants an ethical way of life. He believes that we cannot rely on a
god or channel action into prayer nor hope for an end of troubles in a
hereafter.
He believes that we are our brother's keepers; and are keepers of our
own lives; that we are responsible persons and the job is here and the
time is now."
"The Affirmations of Humanism: A Statement of Principles"
=B7 We are committed to the application of reason and science to the
understanding of the universe and to the solving of human problems.
=B7 We deplore efforts to denigrate human intelligence, to seek to
explain the world in supernatural terms, and to look outside nature
for salvation.
=B7 We believe that scientific discovery and technology can contribute
to the betterment of human life.
=B7 We believe in an open and pluralistic society and that democracy is
the best guarantee of protecting human rights from authoritarian
elites and repressive majorities.
=B7 We are committed to the principle of the separation of church and
state.
=B7 We cultivate the arts of negotiation and compromise as a means of
resolving differences and achieving mutual understanding.
=B7 We are concerned with securing justice and fairness in society and
with eliminating discrimination and intolerance.
=B7 We believe in supporting the disadvantaged and the handicapped so
that they will be able to help themselves.
=B7 We attempt to transcend divisive parochial loyalties based on race,
religion, gender, nationality, creed, class, sexual orientation, or
ethnicity, and strive to work together for the common good of
humanity.
=B7 We want to protect and enhance the earth, to preserve it for future
generations, and to avoid inflicting needless suffering on other
species.
=B7 We believe in enjoying life here and now and in developing our
creative talents to their fullest.
=B7 We believe in the cultivation of moral excellence.
=B7 We respect the right to privacy. Mature adults should be allowed to
fulfill their aspirations, to express their sexual preferences, to
exercise reproductive freedom, to have access to comprehensive and
informed health-care, and to die with dignity.
=B7 We believe in the common moral decencies: altruism, integrity,
honesty, truthfulness, responsibility. Humanist ethics is amenable to
critical, rational guidance. There are normative standards that we
discover together. Moral principles are tested by their consequences.
=B7 We are deeply concerned with the moral education of our children. We
want to nourish reason and compassion.
=B7 We are engaged by the arts no less than by the sciences.
=B7 We are citizens of the universe and are excited by discoveries still
to be made in the cosmos.
=B7 We are skeptical of untested claims to knowledge, and we are open to
novel ideas and seek new departures in our thinking.
=B7 We affirm humanism as a realistic alternative to theologies of
despair and ideologies of violence and as a source of rich personal
significance and genuine satisfaction in the service to others.
=B7 We believe in optimism rather than pessimism, hope rather than
despair, learning in the place of dogma, truth instead of ignorance,
joy rather than guilt or sin, tolerance in the place of fear, love
instead of hatred, compassion over selfishness, beauty instead of
ugliness, and reason rather than blind faith or irrationality.
=B7 We believe in the fullest realization of the best and noblest that
we are capable of as human beings.
Council for Secular Humanism
Buddhists?
They subscribe to The Eightfold Path & The Five Precepts
"The Eightfold Path"
1=2E Right View
2=2E Right Intention
3=2E Right Speech
4=2E Right Action
5=2E Right Livelihood
6=2E Right Effort
7=2E Right Mindfulness
8=2E Right Concentration
The Five precepts are the 'commandments' more or less for Buddhists.
Although they are not commanded to do a thing. If they wish to live at
peace, then they proceed the best they can - but it is their choice.
"The Five Precepts"
1=2E Refrain from Killing
2=2E Refrain from Stealing
3=2E Refrain from Sexual Misconduct
4=2E Refrain from False Speech
5=2E Refrain from the Use of Intoxicants
Christians?
They can be boiled down to 'love thy neighbor as thyself.'
Christians try to avoid the seven deadly sins:
Pride
Lust
Sloth
Greed
Gluttony
Wrath
Envy
Aren't these seven deadly sins good for all of us to avoid in
general...even the atheists???
Additional Christian virtues are comprised of The Corporal Works of
Mercy and The Spiritual Works of Mercy
"The Corporal Works of Mercy"
To feed the hungry
To give drink to the thirsty
To clothe the naked
To harbour the harbourless
To visit the sick
To ransom the captive
To bury the dead
"The Spiritual Works of Mercy"
To instruct the ignorant
To counsel the doubtful
To admonish sinners
To bear wrongs patiently
To forgive offenses willingly
To comfort the afflicted
To pray for the living and the dead
Talk of spiritual studies Al Klein?
Spiritual values and atheists do not generally mix.
You see Al, spiritual work involves what cannot be seen. This 'working
with the invisible' is what distinguishes the corporal from the
spiritual my friend.
I am not always referring to organized religion when I use such terms.
Atheist or not, there are many unseen and supernatural mysteries in
the world. The spiritual studies deals with such mysteries, for the
root of spiritualism is that of the unseen and the force behind it
all.
Yes, spiritual concepts are hard to define, just as the source of the
wind is hard to define. Since spiritual matters deal with the unseen
and the unknown, how can we define them perfectly? If we could do that
they would not be spiritual studies. You can't see why one person is
loving and kind and another person is a fiend of perennial shame, hate
and destruction. Nor can you see what made the hate monger change into
a kind and loving human.
We can describe spiritual concepts and the journey that made the
change possible, but it is impossible to put our finger on it all
exactly. Spiritual growth is a journey that is a never ending, an
imperfect process in this life. But just as we can see the effects of
the wind, while being blind to its source; we can most definitely see
the difference in people that incorporate spiritual values within
their lives when compared to people that live a life devoid of any
spiritual values.
"No man is so wise that he may not easily err if he takes no other
counsel than his own. He that is taught only by himself has a fool for
a master." Ben Jonson
No one said we have to 'investigate it all,' but we do have to give it
some thought if we wish to be at peace Al.
A Hindu sage once told me "Just as water floes downhill without effort
but requires outside forces and energy to make it move uphill. So the
human consciousness falls to its lowest levels of the senses without
effort and energies to make our consciousness gravitate to more than
our base desires."
As such without effort the defiance based atheists sinks deeper and
deeper into sickness and tragedy as time goes by. And this ugly life
you have created for yourself Al can be change simply by taking that
first step in the opposite direction that you have been headed in all
your life my friend.
Same advice for Raven, Robibnikoff, Mark K. Bilbo, Michael Gray, Kate,
Floyd, Neil Kelsey, Michelle Milkin, Ghod, Parsifa, Martin, Lucifer,
Syd M, John #1782, Enkidu, Hollis, Gail, Rev. Karl E. Taylor, Martin,
BuddyThunder, NC, Stoney, Medusa, David Silverman aka Sanity's Little
Helper...you can all have a new life this very instant..the only thing
holding you back is your ego. Drop the ego and find peace and joy. I
will be glad to guide any of you on the journey, all you have to do is
to write me direct and we can start immediately. I charge nothing and
expect nothing - I only offer peace to you.
Getting back to the monotheists and trying to figure out Islam?
They are a little tougher to decipher than the Christians or
Buddhists, especially since most of their religion is based in foreign
languages and not translated as readily into the English.
In addition, many extreme factions that bend things to suit their ego
based need. In any case, they have along list of excellent guidelines
to live by. But really the monotheist of Jews, Christians and Islam
all worship the same God of Yahweh. Islam just calls Yahweh by the
name of Allah.
Here are the guidelines from the Qur'an.
1=2E Respect and honour all human beings irrespective of their
religion,
colour, race, sex, language, status, property, birth, profession/job
and so on [Qur'an17/70]
2=2E Talk straight, to the point, without any ambiguity or deception
[Qur'an33/70]
3=2E Choose best words to speak and say them in the best possible way
[Qur'an17/53, 2/83]
4=2E Do not shout. Speak politely keeping your voice low. [Qur'an31/19]
5=2E Always speak the truth. Shun words that are deceitful and
ostentatious [Qur'an22/30]
6=2E Do not confound truth with falsehood [Qur'an2/42]
7=2E Say with your mouth what is in your heart [Qur'an3/167]
8=2E Speak in a civilised manner in a language that is recognised by
the
society and is commonly used [Qur'an4/5]
9=2E When you voice an opinion, be just, even if it is against a
relative [Qur'an6/152]
10. Do not be a bragging boaster [Qur'an31/18]
11. Do not talk, listen or do anything vain [Qur'an23/3, 28/55]
12. Do not participate in any paltry. If you pass near a futile play,
then pass by with dignity [Qur'an25/72]
13. Do not verge upon any immodesty or lewdness whether surreptitious
or overt [Qur'an6/151]
14. If, unintentionally, any misconduct occurs by you, then correct
yourself expeditiously [Qur'an3/134]
15. Do not be contemptuous or arrogant with people [Qur'an31/18]
16. Do not walk haughtily or with conceit [Qur'an17/37, 31/18]
17. Be moderate in thy pace [Qur'an31/19]
18. Walk with humility and sedateness [Qur'an25/63]
19. Keep your gazes lowered devoid of any lecherous leers and
salacious stares [Qur'an24/30-31, 40/19]
20. If you do not have complete knowledge about anything, it is
better
to keep silent. You might think that speaking about something without
full knowledge is a trivial matter. But it might have grave
consequences
[Qur'an24/15-16]
21. When you hear something malicious about someone, keep a
favourable
view about him/her until you attain full knowledge about the matter.
Consider others innocent until they are proven guilty with solid and
truthful evidence [Qur'an24/12-13]
22. Ascertain the truth of any news, lest you smite someone in
ignorance and afterwards repent of what you did [Qur'an49/6]
23. Do not follow blindly any information of which you have no direct
knowledge. (Using your faculties of perception and conception) you
must verify it for yourself. In the Court of your Lord, you will be
held
accountable for your hearing, sight, and the faculty of reasoning
[Qur'an17/36]
24. Never think that you have reached the final stage of knowledge
and
nobody knows more than yourself. Remember! Above everyone endowed
with
knowledge is another endowed with more knowledge [Qur'an12/76]. Even
the Prophet [p.b.u.h] was asked to keep praying, "O My sustainer!
Advance
me in knowledge." [Qur'an20:114]
25. The believers are but a single Brotherhood. Live like members of
one family, brothers and sisters unto one another [Qur'an49/10]
26. Do not make mockery of others or ridicule others [Qur'an49/11]
27. Do not defame others [Qur'an49/11]
28. Do not insult others by nicknames [Qur'an49/11]
29. Avoid suspicion and guesswork. Suspicion and guesswork might
deplete your communal energy [Qur'an49/12]
30. Spy not upon one another [Qur'an49/12]
31. Do not backbite one another [Qur'an49/12]
32. When you meet each other, offer good wishes and blessings for
safety. One who conveys to you a message of safety and security and
also when a courteous greeting is offered to you, meet it with a
greeting
still more courteous or (at least) of equal courtesy [Qur'an4/86]
33. When you enter your own home or the home of somebody else,
compliment the inmates [Qur'an24/61]
34. Do not enter houses other than your own until you have sought
permission; and then greet the inmates and wish them a life of
blessing,purity and pleasure [Qur'an24/27]
35. Treat kindly: Your parents; Relatives; The orphans; And those who
have been left alone in the society [Qur'an4/36]
36. Take care of: The needy, The disabled, Those whose hard earned
income is insufficient to meet their needs; And those whose
businesses have stalled ; And those who have lost their jobs.
[Qur'an4/36]
37. Treat kindly: Your related neighbours, and unrelated neighbours;
Companions by your side in public gatherings, or public
transportation.[Qur'an4/36]
38. Be generous to the needy wayfarer, the homeless son of the
street,and the one who reaches you in a destitute condition
[Qur'an4/36]
39. Be nice to people who work under your care. [Qur'an4/36]
40. Do not follow up what you have given to others to afflict them
with reminders of your generosity [Qur'an2/262]
41. Do not expect a return for your good behaviour, not even thanks
[Qur'an76/9]
42. Cooperate with one another in good deeds and do not cooperate
with
others in evil and bad matters [Qur'an5/2]
43. Do no try to impress people on account of self-proclaimed virtues
[Qur'an53/32]
44. You should enjoin right conduct on others but mend your own ways
first. Actions speak louder than words. You must first practice good
deeds yourself, then preach [Qur'an2/44]
45. Correct yourself and your families first [before trying to
correct
others] [Qur'an66/6]
46. Pardon gracefully if anyone among you who commits a bad deed out
of ignorance, and then repents and amends [Qur'an6/54, 3/134]
47. Divert and sublimate your anger and potentially virulent emotions
to creative energy, and become a source of tranquillity and comfort
to
people [Qur'an3/134]
48. Call people to the Way of your Lord with wisdom and beautiful
exhortation. Reason with them most decently [Qur'an16/125]
49. Leave to themselves those who do not give any importance to the
Divine code and have adopted and consider it as mere play and
amusement [Qur'an6/70]
50. Sit not in the company of those who ridicule Divine Law unless
they engage in some other conversation [Qur'an4/140]
51. Do not be jealous of those who are blessed [Qur'an4/54]
52. In your collective life, make rooms for others [Qur'an58/11]
53. When invited to dine, Go at the appointed time. Do not arrive too
early to wait for the preparation of meal or linger after eating to
engage in bootless babble. Such things may cause inconvenience to the
host [Qur'an33/53]
54. Eat and drink [what is lawful] in moderation [Qur'an7/31]
55. Do not squander your wealth senselessly [Qur'an17/26]
56. Fulfil your promises and commitments [Qur'an17/34]
57. Keep yourself clean, pure [Qur'an9/108, 4/43, 5/6]
58. Dress-up in agreeable attire and adorn yourself with exquisite
character from inside out [Qur'an7/26]
59. Seek your provision only by fair endeavour [Qur'an29/17, 2/188]
60. Do not devour the wealth and property of others unjustly, nor
bribe the officials or the judges to deprive others of their
possessions
[Qur'an2/188]
So, as I told you, if you happen upon a person in pain or not living
by their religions creed give em a little help.
Yes, we are all here to help each other out...are we not?
Take care,
V (Male)
Agnostic Freethinker
Practical Philosopher
AA#2
.
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| User: "Colin Fox remove spam from email" |
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| Title: Re: People are catching on |
06 Oct 2007 11:58:24 PM |
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On Wed, 03 Oct 2007 06:33:24 -0700, V wrote:
On Oct 3, 7:47 am, Don Martin <drdonmar...@comcast.net> wrote:
http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1667639,00.html?xid=rs...
Good article - Thanks!
When such theists do not walk the talk they espouse, they probably
need a little help. After all, we are all human and make mistakes, we
get off track and take the wrong direction once in a while. When this
happens give em some KIND help and let go of the desire of the hate
filled message you are tempted to deliver
Usually, when theists aren't walking the talk, they're getting very
in-your-face, which feels like an attack. It's natural to attack back. And
why is it that atheists must drop the "hate", but you don't have any advice
for misdirected religious people?
But...the facts are this: when people are devoid of religion...they
generally stink as humans.
Absolute bunk! In fact, the opposite is true. Religion gives you a reason
to hate someone you've never met, because they are a different colour, or
sexual orientation, or even just a different sex than you (hello
repression of women).
Atheists, or simply rationalists, do not have such excuses. If you live by
reason, then the only time you would attack someone else is in defence of
yourself or someone else. An atheist isn't interested in telling someone
how to live their life. A theist loves nothing better than telling others
how to live.
So let me correct your statement: "When people have religion, they
generally stink as humans". There, fixed it for you.
Until atheism can replace theist based religion as a VIABLE and REAL way
to inner peace, with a reverence of humanity, it can never take over the
world and extinguish religion.
Of course we can. Have a look into science and philosophy. You could add
a little literature, poetry & art to complete the picture.
When you get rid of one thing, it makes room for another.
Out with the bad (religion) and in with the good (reason). Gotcha.
Sure atheist can succeed at pointing to the flaws of religious thought,
but they have nothing to replace the flaws with.
As I said - Science, Philosophy, Art, Poetry, Literature, Music. All
things that are fulfilling, useful and beautiful. Unlike the bible, which
is full of bile, hatred and ugliness. Sure there is a passage or two that
is not too bad, but the rest is horrid.
So theists choose the lesser of two evils while on earth, with the hopes
of hitting the jackpot in the hereafter.
Yeah, good luck with that.
When atheists become successes at 'the religion of humanity,' you may
become more successful at replacing theist based religion.
Atheism is no more a religion than "bald" is a hair colour, or "not
collecting stamps" is a hobby.
Until that time..."a mans mind may be likened to a garden which may be
intelligently cultivated or allowed to run wild; but whether cultivated
or neglected, it must and will bring forth. If no useful seeds are put
into it, then an abundance of useless 'weed seeds' will fall therein and
will continue to produce their kind." ~ James Allen
Exactly! Intelligence = the humanities (Science, Philosophy, etc).
Cultivate with these, and you will have a happy, well adjusted and
pleasant-to-be-with person. Allow it to run wild with religion, and you
have madness.
And religion does a good job at controlling the weeds.
No, religion IS the weed.
In its history, organized atheism has never succeeded at replacing
religion with real humanity and compassion.
There is no such thing as "organized atheism" any more than there is
"organized rationalism" or "organized reasonableness".
There are plenty of non-theistic charities and humanitarian organizations
however. And there is MORE compassion with them, because they aren't
expecting some kind of divine reward after they die.
Think about it - Atheists who are nice people are in fact far nicer than
theists who are nice, because the theist is doing this because (a) he's
told to by the bible, and (b) he's expecting some kind of reward. An
atheist who is nice is just doing it because he's a nice person. Which is
the better person?
It's interesting that every atheist I know is a good person, but so many
times I've heard a Christian say "If there is no God, then why aren't
you raping animals, killing people stealing, etc". Well, atheists already
don't believe in God and aren't doing these things. So that sounds to me
like projection: That's what these Christians would do, except that
they're constrained by their belief. Sounds like terrible people to me.
The atheists talk a good story, but atheists fail miserably when it
comes to practical application of the 'peace talk.'
Prove that.
The reason people generally don't like the atheist is that they are an
unknown quantity.
No, it's because we point out that their religions are bunk, and people
don't like to have their beliefs attacked. Particularly when they suspect
that their own belief is wrong.
Atheists run on logic & reason. That's it. We believe what we see, and
what we can logically conclude from what we perceive in the world around
us.
How can that be hard to understand? It's the ultimate in simplicity.
Think of the golden rule: Atheists generally live by that. Treat others as
you'd like to be treated. Live and let live. Pretty understandable to me.
With Christians, Buddhists, Jews, Muslims, (to a
lesser degree) people can look at their religious guidelines and see
what the person stands for and how they supposedly apply their spiritual
beliefs in everyday life.
Nonsense. Look at the catholic priest pedophile scandal. Is that part of
the catholic creed? If not, then your statement is obviously more bunk.
In addition, many atheists here are extreme, militant atheists and that
draws attention, albeit negative attention, through their hate filled
message.
We only get "militant" in the face of the onslaught of religious dogma and
oppression.
Watch "Jesus Camp". That movie will freak you out. And if it doesn't, then
you are one of the dangerous fundies that makes atheists militant.
The moderate theist accepts a moderate atheist, just as a moderate
atheist accepts a moderate theist. It is out of balance, extreme views
that sets one apart.
Well, yes, moderates accept moderates. But you wouldn't HAVE extreme
atheists without extreme theists. So you theists knock it off, and we'll
put down our pitchforks & torches.
Problems within society do not come from Muslims...the problems come
from extreme Muslims. Same with all the rest whether Christian or
Atheist...seek balance...seek inner peace within and with all.
Well, kind of. We don't want to see our laws incorporate religious
nonsense. Muslims, Jews & Christians are all guilty of trying to infect
our legal system with religious dogma.
As soon as one becomes a dogmatic skeptic or a dogmatic theist, they are
headed for extremism and they put truth on the back burner.
Again, nonsense. Truth is truth. If you can show some facts and evidence
to back up your supernatural claims, then we atheists would probably jump
on the bandwagon, because we're interested in the truth. If you can prove,
with the same kind of proof we use for biology, chemistry, geology, etc.,
your point, then we will accept it. Good luck with that though.
Greywolf brought up a few complaints about Christians that are not
treating him right.
So, again give em some KIND help and let go of the desire of the hate
filled message you are tempted to deliver.
Why is it WE have to suck it up? Why can't the christians stop being such
stupid & selfish bastards and treat people properly?
In my own life, I seldom get much success by guiding people on the right
track, but I still work in the right direction, and do not have
expectations of success or failure with my work...I just do it!
Perhaps because the track you're on is *NOT* the right track.
Remember, expectations are pre-planned resentments, so work blind when
it comes to expectations.
Even though most atheists are unknown quantities, the atheists have a
set of guidelines to live by if they are secular humanists.
Again - atheists will statistically be better people than Christians,
because we don't have some kind of holy scripture giving us permission to
misbehave. I remember some statistic showing that the percentage of
atheists in the states is something like 10%, but in prison, it's 2%. So a
larger percentage of "Christians" are in prison than atheists. This is
perhaps because they think they have permission to do evil, whereas
atheists claim no such privilege.
So if you are dealing with an atheist that is rubbing you wrong, ask
them if they are a secular humanist and if so, review the creed of their
'religion' and the Affirmations of Humanism with them and give em a
little help if need be. We are all here to help each other out...are we
not?
Atheist Creed http://www.atheists.org/Atheism/
<snip>
I'm a little confused. The stuff I just snipped out was a reasonable
description of what secular humanism seems to be all about. And I have no
problem agreeing with all of it.
Earlier in this article you seemed to have some issue with atheism (your
statement about how humans without religion tend to stink). But if you
read & understood the text that you quoted, then I don't understand how
you could have a problem with it.
Buddhists?
They subscribe to The Eightfold Path & The Five Precepts
"The Eightfold Path"
<snip>
I agree with all that, with the exception of intoxicants. The weekends
just wouldn't be the same without them.
Christians?
They can be boiled down to 'love thy neighbor as thyself.'
Pretty hypocritical, considering they always tell their neighbour how to
live. See: Gay marriage, shopping on sundays, etc etc.
Christians try to avoid the seven deadly sins:
Pride
Lust
Sloth
Greed
Gluttony
Wrath
Envy
Aren't these seven deadly sins good for all of us to avoid in
general...even the atheists???
Actually, Pride, Lust & Envy are important I think. Pride allows you to
focus more on your efforts, to excel. Lust is what keeps us going as a
species, and Envy is what keeps the economy going (your neighbour gets
something, you want one too).
Additional Christian virtues are comprised of The Corporal Works of
Mercy and The Spiritual Works of Mercy
"The Corporal Works of Mercy"
To feed the hungry
To give drink to the thirsty
To clothe the naked
To harbour the harbourless
To visit the sick
To ransom the captive
To bury the dead
Technically, these are all works of charity, not mercy. Mercy is when you
are about to lay the smack down on someone, and decide not to.
"The Spiritual Works of Mercy"
To instruct the ignorant
I'm doing this right now. Check.
To counsel the doubtful
Doubt is a good thing. Keeps the mind sharp.
To admonish sinners
It's not your place.
To bear wrongs patiently
To forgive offenses willingly
To comfort the afflicted
To pray for the living and the dead
Why? What possible use is prayer? Either God is or is not going to do
whatever he has already forseen with his magical prescient powers. Your
prayers can have no effect, since all is already foreordained.
Talk of spiritual studies Al Klein?
Spiritual values and atheists do not generally mix.
Depends on what you mean. If you're talking about prayer & faith healing,
then yeah, I agree. If you're talking about helping others, then I
disagree.
You see Al, spiritual work involves what cannot be seen. This 'working
with the invisible' is what distinguishes the corporal from the
spiritual my friend.
Working with the invisible? Lots of things are real that are invisible -
electricity, wind, gravity, magnetism. But the difference between all
these and magical fairy tales is that these all exist, and we can measure
& use them. Magical fairy tales do not exist. No way to measure "the
spirit". No way to measure "the power of prayer".
I am not always referring to organized religion when I use such terms.
Atheist or not, there are many unseen and supernatural mysteries in the
world. The spiritual studies deals with such mysteries, for the root of
spiritualism is that of the unseen and the force behind it all.
No there aren't. There are mysteries, but they're not supernatural. Even
if we don't know why it is happening YET, doesn't mean we won't learn.
When a murder happens, and the police don't have a suspect yet, does it
mean that it's a supernatural killing? Or they simply don't have a suspect
yet? The answer is of course obvious.
Yes, spiritual concepts are hard to define, just as the source of the
wind is hard to define.
Then you don't understand the world around us. The source of wind is
ultimately the sun, because it effects temperature change, which causes
the pressure to change, which causes wind to come fill the void. Wind is
not a mystery any more, and hasn't been for a long time.
Spiritual concepts are hard to define because they're nonsense, and you
can't make sense of nonsense.
Since spiritual matters deal with the unseen and
the unknown, how can we define them perfectly? If we could do that they
would not be spiritual studies. You can't see why one person is loving
and kind and another person is a fiend of perennial shame, hate and
destruction. Nor can you see what made the hate monger change into a
kind and loving human.
Well, we can't see these things NOW. Who's to say that in another decade
or two we won't have some kind of brain-scanner that shows why some people
are evil assholes and others are kind. Again, just because we don't know
NOW, doesn't mean we won't learn it. And it's also no reason to say "well,
I don't know the answer right this second, so God must have done it."
We can describe spiritual concepts and the journey that made the change
possible, but it is impossible to put our finger on it all exactly.
Spiritual growth is a journey that is a never ending, an imperfect
process in this life.
Growth of any kind is measurable. So how do you measure "spiritual growth"?
But just as we can see the effects of the wind,
while being blind to its source; we can most definitely see the
difference in people that incorporate spiritual values within their
lives when compared to people that live a life devoid of any spiritual
values.
Nonsense. You don't need spiritual values to live a good life. You just
need to be a good person, instead of a *****. I know more unpleasant
christians than I do atheists.
"No man is so wise that he may not easily err if he takes no other
counsel than his own. He that is taught only by himself has a fool for a
master." Ben Jonson
Sure - listen to others, and be able to change your mind. By the way, this
is something that theists are singularly unable to do. They are awful at
listening to countervailing evidence and deciding that "yeah, this bible
is nonsense". Christians are great at listening only to themselves.
No one said we have to 'investigate it all,' but we do have to give it
some thought if we wish to be at peace Al.
Good advice. I hope you take it.
A Hindu sage once told me "Just as water floes downhill without effort
but requires outside forces and energy to make it move uphill. So the
human consciousness falls to its lowest levels of the senses without
effort and energies to make our consciousness gravitate to more than our
base desires."
As such without effort the defiance based atheists sinks deeper and
deeper into sickness and tragedy as time goes by. And this ugly life you
have created for yourself Al can be change simply by taking that first
step in the opposite direction that you have been headed in all your
life my friend.
This is a condescending pile of vomit I must say. My life is anything but
a tragedy (I realize you're technically addressing Al, but you're
generally addressing atheists). I'm happily married, successful in
business, have good friends, etc.
Same advice for Raven, Robibnikoff, Mark K. Bilbo, Michael Gray, Kate,
Floyd, Neil Kelsey, Michelle Milkin, Ghod, Parsifa, Martin, Lucifer, Syd
M, John #1782, Enkidu, Hollis, Gail, Rev. Karl E. Taylor, Martin,
BuddyThunder, NC, Stoney, Medusa, David Silverman aka Sanity's Little
Helper...you can all have a new life this very instant..the only thing
holding you back is your ego.
I'd say the only thing holding us back is our brains & reason. And I think
I speak for everyone when I say that we would prefer to hold onto them,
thank you very much.
Drop the ego and find peace and joy.
For some reason, you make me think of Rev. Jim Jones.
I
will be glad to guide any of you on the journey, all you have to do is
to write me direct and we can start immediately. I charge nothing and
expect nothing - I only offer peace to you.
No, you offer a set of blinders, and an abdication of responsibility over
our own lives. No thank you very much.
This is a pretty long article. I think I'll stop here.
<snip>
Take care,
V (Male)
Agnostic Freethinker
Practical Philosopher
AA#2
You're an agnostic freethinker? You sound like a fundie.
--
Thou shalt have no other gods before Lunch
-- Me
.
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| User: "Bill M" |
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| Title: Re: People are catching on |
03 Oct 2007 09:22:54 AM |
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You seem unable to accept the reality of the real world. Life is the time
between birth and death, Nothing more.
There is NO-NADA objective verifiable evidence of any 'after life'!
"V" <vfr44@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1191418404.751346.38880@r29g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
On Oct 3, 7:47 am, Don Martin <drdonmar...@comcast.net> wrote:
http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1667639,00.html?xid=rs...
Good article - Thanks!
When such theists do not walk the talk they espouse, they probably
need a little help. After all, we are all human and make mistakes, we
get off track and take the wrong direction once in a while. When this
happens give em some KIND help and let go of the desire of the hate
filled message you are tempted to deliver
But...the facts are this: when people are devoid of religion...they
generally stink as humans.
Until atheism can replace theist based religion as a VIABLE and REAL
way to inner peace, with a reverence of humanity, it can never take
over the world and extinguish religion.
When you get rid of one thing, it makes room for another.
Sure atheist can succeed at pointing to the flaws of religious
thought, but they have nothing to replace the flaws with.
So theists choose the lesser of two evils while on earth, with the
hopes of hitting the jackpot in the hereafter.
When atheists become successes at 'the religion of humanity,' you may
become more successful at replacing theist based religion.
Until that time..."a mans mind may be likened to a garden which may be
intelligently cultivated or allowed to run wild; but whether
cultivated or neglected, it must and will bring forth. If no useful
seeds are put into it, then an abundance of useless 'weed seeds' will
fall therein and will continue to produce their kind." ~ James Allen
And religion does a good job at controlling the weeds.
In its history, organized atheism has never succeeded at replacing
religion with real humanity and compassion.
The atheists talk a good story, but atheists fail miserably when it
comes to practical application of the 'peace talk.'
The reason people generally don't like the atheist is that they are an
unknown quantity. With Christians, Buddhists, Jews, Muslims, (to a
lesser degree) people can look at their religious guidelines and see
what the person stands for and how they supposedly apply their
spiritual beliefs in everyday life.
In addition, many atheists here are extreme, militant atheists and
that draws attention, albeit negative attention, through their hate
filled message.
The moderate theist accepts a moderate atheist, just as a moderate
atheist accepts a moderate theist. It is out of balance, extreme views
that sets one apart.
Problems within society do not come from Muslims...the problems come
from extreme Muslims. Same with all the rest whether Christian or
Atheist...seek balance...seek inner peace within and with all.
As soon as one becomes a dogmatic skeptic or a dogmatic theist, they
are headed for extremism and they put truth on the back burner.
Greywolf brought up a few complaints about Christians that are not
treating him right.
So, again give em some KIND help and let go of the desire of the hate
filled message you are tempted to deliver.
In my own life, I seldom get much success by guiding people on the
right track, but I still work in the right direction, and do not have
expectations of success or failure with my work...I just do it!
Remember, expectations are pre-planned resentments, so work blind when
it comes to expectations.
Even though most atheists are unknown quantities, the atheists have a
set of guidelines to live by if they are secular humanists.
So if you are dealing with an atheist that is rubbing you wrong, ask
them if they are a secular humanist and if so, review the creed of
their 'religion' and the Affirmations of Humanism with them and give
em a little help if need be. We are all here to help each other
out...are we not?
Atheist Creed http://www.atheists.org/Atheism/
An Atheist loves his fellow man instead of god. An Atheist believes
that heaven is something for which we should work now - here on earth
for all men together to enjoy.
An Atheist believes that he can get no help through prayer but that he
must find in himself the inner conviction, and strength to meet life,
to grapple with it, to subdue it and enjoy it.
An Atheist believes that only in a knowledge of himself and a
knowledge of his fellow man can he find the understanding that will
help to a life of fulfillment. He seeks to know himself and his fellow
man rather than to know a god. An Atheist believes that a hospital
should be built instead of a church.
An Atheist believes that a deed must be done instead of a prayer
said.
An Atheist strives for involvement in life and not escape into death.
He wants disease conquered, poverty vanquished, war eliminated. He
wants man to understand and love man.
He wants an ethical way of life. He believes that we cannot rely on a
god or channel action into prayer nor hope for an end of troubles in a
hereafter.
He believes that we are our brother's keepers; and are keepers of our
own lives; that we are responsible persons and the job is here and the
time is now."
"The Affirmations of Humanism: A Statement of Principles"
· We are committed to the application of reason and science to the
understanding of the universe and to the solving of human problems.
· We deplore efforts to denigrate human intelligence, to seek to
explain the world in supernatural terms, and to look outside nature
for salvation.
· We believe that scientific discovery and technology can contribute
to the betterment of human life.
· We believe in an open and pluralistic society and that democracy is
the best guarantee of protecting human rights from authoritarian
elites and repressive majorities.
· We are committed to the principle of the separation of church and
state.
· We cultivate the arts of negotiation and compromise as a means of
resolving differences and achieving mutual understanding.
· We are concerned with securing justice and fairness in society and
with eliminating discrimination and intolerance.
· We believe in supporting the disadvantaged and the handicapped so
that they will be able to help themselves.
· We attempt to transcend divisive parochial loyalties based on race,
religion, gender, nationality, creed, class, sexual orientation, or
ethnicity, and strive to work together for the common good of
humanity.
· We want to protect and enhance the earth, to preserve it for future
generations, and to avoid inflicting needless suffering on other
species.
· We believe in enjoying life here and now and in developing our
creative talents to their fullest.
· We believe in the cultivation of moral excellence.
· We respect the right to privacy. Mature adults should be allowed to
fulfill their aspirations, to express their sexual preferences, to
exercise reproductive freedom, to have access to comprehensive and
informed health-care, and to die with dignity.
· We believe in the common moral decencies: altruism, integrity,
honesty, truthfulness, responsibility. Humanist ethics is amenable to
critical, rational guidance. There are normative standards that we
discover together. Moral principles are tested by their consequences.
· We are deeply concerned with the moral education of our children. We
want to nourish reason and compassion.
· We are engaged by the arts no less than by the sciences.
· We are citizens of the universe and are excited by discoveries still
to be made in the cosmos.
· We are skeptical of untested claims to knowledge, and we are open to
novel ideas and seek new departures in our thinking.
· We affirm humanism as a realistic alternative to theologies of
despair and ideologies of violence and as a source of rich personal
significance and genuine satisfaction in the service to others.
· We believe in optimism rather than pessimism, hope rather than
despair, learning in the place of dogma, truth instead of ignorance,
joy rather than guilt or sin, tolerance in the place of fear, love
instead of hatred, compassion over selfishness, beauty instead of
ugliness, and reason rather than blind faith or irrationality.
· We believe in the fullest realization of the best and noblest that
we are capable of as human beings.
Council for Secular Humanism
Buddhists?
They subscribe to The Eightfold Path & The Five Precepts
"The Eightfold Path"
1. Right View
2. Right Intention
3. Right Speech
4. Right Action
5. Right Livelihood
6. Right Effort
7. Right Mindfulness
8. Right Concentration
The Five precepts are the 'commandments' more or less for Buddhists.
Although they are not commanded to do a thing. If they wish to live at
peace, then they proceed the best they can - but it is their choice.
"The Five Precepts"
1. Refrain from Killing
2. Refrain from Stealing
3. Refrain from Sexual Misconduct
4. Refrain from False Speech
5. Refrain from the Use of Intoxicants
Christians?
They can be boiled down to 'love thy neighbor as thyself.'
Christians try to avoid the seven deadly sins:
Pride
Lust
Sloth
Greed
Gluttony
Wrath
Envy
Aren't these seven deadly sins good for all of us to avoid in
general...even the atheists???
Additional Christian virtues are comprised of The Corporal Works of
Mercy and The Spiritual Works of Mercy
"The Corporal Works of Mercy"
To feed the hungry
To give drink to the thirsty
To clothe the naked
To harbour the harbourless
To visit the sick
To ransom the captive
To bury the dead
"The Spiritual Works of Mercy"
To instruct the ignorant
To counsel the doubtful
To admonish sinners
To bear wrongs patiently
To forgive offenses willingly
To comfort the afflicted
To pray for the living and the dead
Talk of spiritual studies Al Klein?
Spiritual values and atheists do not generally mix.
You see Al, spiritual work involves what cannot be seen. This 'working
with the invisible' is what distinguishes the corporal from the
spiritual my friend.
I am not always referring to organized religion when I use such terms.
Atheist or not, there are many unseen and supernatural mysteries in
the world. The spiritual studies deals with such mysteries, for the
root of spiritualism is that of the unseen and the force behind it
all.
Yes, spiritual concepts are hard to define, just as the source of the
wind is hard to define. Since spiritual matters deal with the unseen
and the unknown, how can we define them perfectly? If we could do that
they would not be spiritual studies. You can't see why one person is
loving and kind and another person is a fiend of perennial shame, hate
and destruction. Nor can you see what made the hate monger change into
a kind and loving human.
We can describe spiritual concepts and the journey that made the
change possible, but it is impossible to put our finger on it all
exactly. Spiritual growth is a journey that is a never ending, an
imperfect process in this life. But just as we can see the effects of
the wind, while being blind to its source; we can most definitely see
the difference in people that incorporate spiritual values within
their lives when compared to people that live a life devoid of any
spiritual values.
"No man is so wise that he may not easily err if he takes no other
counsel than his own. He that is taught only by himself has a fool for
a master." Ben Jonson
No one said we have to 'investigate it all,' but we do have to give it
some thought if we wish to be at peace Al.
A Hindu sage once told me "Just as water floes downhill without effort
but requires outside forces and energy to make it move uphill. So the
human consciousness falls to its lowest levels of the senses without
effort and energies to make our consciousness gravitate to more than
our base desires."
As such without effort the defiance based atheists sinks deeper and
deeper into sickness and tragedy as time goes by. And this ugly life
you have created for yourself Al can be change simply by taking that
first step in the opposite direction that you have been headed in all
your life my friend.
Same advice for Raven, Robibnikoff, Mark K. Bilbo, Michael Gray, Kate,
Floyd, Neil Kelsey, Michelle Milkin, Ghod, Parsifa, Martin, Lucifer,
Syd M, John #1782, Enkidu, Hollis, Gail, Rev. Karl E. Taylor, Martin,
BuddyThunder, NC, Stoney, Medusa, David Silverman aka Sanity's Little
Helper...you can all have a new life this very instant..the only thing
holding you back is your ego. Drop the ego and find peace and joy. I
will be glad to guide any of you on the journey, all you have to do is
to write me direct and we can start immediately. I charge nothing and
expect nothing - I only offer peace to you.
Getting back to the monotheists and trying to figure out Islam?
They are a little tougher to decipher than the Christians or
Buddhists, especially since most of their religion is based in foreign
languages and not translated as readily into the English.
In addition, many extreme factions that bend things to suit their ego
based need. In any case, they have along list of excellent guidelines
to live by. But really the monotheist of Jews, Christians and Islam
all worship the same God of Yahweh. Islam just calls Yahweh by the
name of Allah.
Here are the guidelines from the Qur'an.
1. Respect and honour all human beings irrespective of their
religion,
colour, race, sex, language, status, property, birth, profession/job
and so on [Qur'an17/70]
2. Talk straight, to the point, without any ambiguity or deception
[Qur'an33/70]
3. Choose best words to speak and say them in the best possible way
[Qur'an17/53, 2/83]
4. Do not shout. Speak politely keeping your voice low. [Qur'an31/19]
5. Always speak the truth. Shun words that are deceitful and
ostentatious [Qur'an22/30]
6. Do not confound truth with falsehood [Qur'an2/42]
7. Say with your mouth what is in your heart [Qur'an3/167]
8. Speak in a civilised manner in a language that is recognised by
the
society and is commonly used [Qur'an4/5]
9. When you voice an opinion, be just, even if it is against a
relative [Qur'an6/152]
10. Do not be a bragging boaster [Qur'an31/18]
11. Do not talk, listen or do anything vain [Qur'an23/3, 28/55]
12. Do not participate in any paltry. If you pass near a futile play,
then pass by with dignity [Qur'an25/72]
13. Do not verge upon any immodesty or lewdness whether surreptitious
or overt [Qur'an6/151]
14. If, unintentionally, any misconduct occurs by you, then correct
yourself expeditiously [Qur'an3/134]
15. Do not be contemptuous or arrogant with people [Qur'an31/18]
16. Do not walk haughtily or with conceit [Qur'an17/37, 31/18]
17. Be moderate in thy pace [Qur'an31/19]
18. Walk with humility and sedateness [Qur'an25/63]
19. Keep your gazes lowered devoid of any lecherous leers and
salacious stares [Qur'an24/30-31, 40/19]
20. If you do not have complete knowledge about anything, it is
better
to keep silent. You might think that speaking about something without
full knowledge is a trivial matter. But it might have grave
consequences
[Qur'an24/15-16]
21. When you hear something malicious about someone, keep a
favourable
view about him/her until you attain full knowledge about the matter.
Consider others innocent until they are proven guilty with solid and
truthful evidence [Qur'an24/12-13]
22. Ascertain the truth of any news, lest you smite someone in
ignorance and afterwards repent of what you did [Qur'an49/6]
23. Do not follow blindly any information of which you have no direct
knowledge. (Using your faculties of perception and conception) you
must verify it for yourself. In the Court of your Lord, you will be
held
accountable for your hearing, sight, and the faculty of reasoning
[Qur'an17/36]
24. Never think that you have reached the final stage of knowledge
and
nobody knows more than yourself. Remember! Above everyone endowed
with
knowledge is another endowed with more knowledge [Qur'an12/76]. Even
the Prophet [p.b.u.h] was asked to keep praying, "O My sustainer!
Advance
me in knowledge." [Qur'an20:114]
25. The believers are but a single Brotherhood. Live like members of
one family, brothers and sisters unto one another [Qur'an49/10]
26. Do not make mockery of others or ridicule others [Qur'an49/11]
27. Do not defame others [Qur'an49/11]
28. Do not insult others by nicknames [Qur'an49/11]
29. Avoid suspicion and guesswork. Suspicion and guesswork might
deplete your communal energy [Qur'an49/12]
30. Spy not upon one another [Qur'an49/12]
31. Do not backbite one another [Qur'an49/12]
32. When you meet each other, offer good wishes and blessings for
safety. One who conveys to you a message of safety and security and
also when a courteous greeting is offered to you, meet it with a
greeting
still more courteous or (at least) of equal courtesy [Qur'an4/86]
33. When you enter your own home or the home of somebody else,
compliment the inmates [Qur'an24/61]
34. Do not enter houses other than your own until you have sought
permission; and then greet the inmates and wish them a life of
blessing,purity and pleasure [Qur'an24/27]
35. Treat kindly: Your parents; Relatives; The orphans; And those who
have been left alone in the society [Qur'an4/36]
36. Take care of: The needy, The disabled, Those whose hard earned
income is insufficient to meet their needs; And those whose
businesses have stalled ; And those who have lost their jobs.
[Qur'an4/36]
37. Treat kindly: Your related neighbours, and unrelated neighbours;
Companions by your side in public gatherings, or public
transportation.[Qur'an4/36]
38. Be generous to the needy wayfarer, the homeless son of the
street,and the one who reaches you in a destitute condition
[Qur'an4/36]
39. Be nice to people who work under your care. [Qur'an4/36]
40. Do not follow up what you have given to others to afflict them
with reminders of your generosity [Qur'an2/262]
41. Do not expect a return for your good behaviour, not even thanks
[Qur'an76/9]
42. Cooperate with one another in good deeds and do not cooperate
with
others in evil and bad matters [Qur'an5/2]
43. Do no try to impress people on account of self-proclaimed virtues
[Qur'an53/32]
44. You should enjoin right conduct on others but mend your own ways
first. Actions speak louder than words. You must first practice good
deeds yourself, then preach [Qur'an2/44]
45. Correct yourself and your families first [before trying to
correct
others] [Qur'an66/6]
46. Pardon gracefully if anyone among you who commits a bad deed out
of ignorance, and then repents and amends [Qur'an6/54, 3/134]
47. Divert and sublimate your anger and potentially virulent emotions
to creative energy, and become a source of tranquillity and comfort
to
people [Qur'an3/134]
48. Call people to the Way of your Lord with wisdom and beautiful
exhortation. Reason with them most decently [Qur'an16/125]
49. Leave to themselves those who do not give any importance to the
Divine code and have adopted and consider it as mere play and
amusement [Qur'an6/70]
50. Sit not in the company of those who ridicule Divine Law unless
they engage in some other conversation [Qur'an4/140]
51. Do not be jealous of those who are blessed [Qur'an4/54]
52. In your collective life, make rooms for others [Qur'an58/11]
53. When invited to dine, Go at the appointed time. Do not arrive too
early to wait for the preparation of meal or linger after eating to
engage in bootless babble. Such things may cause inconvenience to the
host [Qur'an33/53]
54. Eat and drink [what is lawful] in moderation [Qur'an7/31]
55. Do not squander your wealth senselessly [Qur'an17/26]
56. Fulfil your promises and commitments [Qur'an17/34]
57. Keep yourself clean, pure [Qur'an9/108, 4/43, 5/6]
58. Dress-up in agreeable attire and adorn yourself with exquisite
character from inside out [Qur'an7/26]
59. Seek your provision only by fair endeavour [Qur'an29/17, 2/188]
60. Do not devour the wealth and property of others unjustly, nor
bribe the officials or the judges to deprive others of their
possessions
[Qur'an2/188]
So, as I told you, if you happen upon a person in pain or not living
by their religions creed give em a little help.
Yes, we are all here to help each other out...are we not?
Take care,
V (Male)
Agnostic Freethinker
Practical Philosopher
AA#2
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| User: "Anlatt the Builder" |
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| Title: Re: People are catching on |
07 Oct 2007 01:47:27 AM |
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On Oct 3, 7:22 am, "Bill M" <wm...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
When such theists do not walk the talk they espouse, they probably
need a little help. After all, we are all human and make mistakes, we
get off track and take the wrong direction once in a while. When this
happens give em some KIND help and let go of the desire of the hate
filled message you are tempted to deliver
But...the facts are this: when people are devoid of religion...they
generally stink as humans.
This is simply garbage.
Atheism is simply the belief that there is no God. I have no idea
whether atheists are right or wrong with in that belief, since there
is no proof either way. (That's why religious people always talk about
"faith," remember?)
But atheism is not a belief system created to replace any particular
religion. It's just a lack of belief in God. If someone tells you that
they don't believe in Zeus, does that mean that they must somehow use
their lack of belief in Zeus to come up with an entire philosophical
system? If someone tells you they don't believe in Bigfoot, do you
demand that they must be able to extrapolate from their lack of belief
to the Golden Rule?
Atheists do not look to atheism to provide them with a decent social
philosophy. Instead, every atheist - just like every theist - must
search to find their way in the world, and a philosophy of kindness
and justice.
For many theists, their religion provides such a philosophy. Clearly,
that doesn't work perfectly each time for each one of them, since
there are plenty of theists killing each other and ruining each
others' lives in the world today.
For many atheists, such a philosophy begins with their personal
experiences of empathy and compassion. This also doesn't work
perfectly every time. There are atheists, just like there are theists,
doing bad things. But I've seen no evidence that atheists are
intrinsicially worse at this than theists, or that they "generally
stink as humans." (My God! What a "Christian" thing to say!)
I know quite a few atheists. Most of them are pretty decent human
beings. When they're not, it has to do with their greed, their anger,
or their pettiness - not with their atheism.
I also know quite a few theists. Most of them are pretty decent human
beings. When they're not, it has to do with their greed, their anger,
or their pettiness - or sometimes because someone who represents
themselves as a religious authority has taught them some "generally
stinky" things.
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: People are catching on |
07 Oct 2007 10:15:31 PM |
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On Sat, 06 Oct 2007 23:47:27 -0700, Anlatt the Builder
<tirhuan@aol.com> wrote:
This is simply garbage.
Atheism is simply the belief that there is no God.
This is simply garbage.
Atheism is simply lack of belief in gods.
I have no idea whether atheists are right or wrong with in that belief
Since atheism isn't a belief, but lack of one specific belief, it's
not subject to being right or wrong.
since there is no proof either way.
There's no proof of any god. Period. (Logic doesn't allow for
existentially negative proof.)
But atheism is not a belief system created to replace any particular
religion. It's just a lack of belief in God.
Lack of belief isn't belief in lack - you're contradicting yourself.
--
Al at Webdingers dot com
"They laughed at Newton, they laughed at Einstein, but they also laughed at
Bozo the Clown."
- Carl Sagan
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