| Topic: |
Religions > Bible |
| User: |
"Ananias917" |
| Date: |
27 Dec 2005 09:48:34 AM |
| Object: |
Re: Private Interpretations makes God's Word Lie |
On Mon, 26 Dec 2005 11:20:15 -0800, oldwetdog
<oldwetdog@hotmail.com> spake thusly:
I noted that while Jesus talked about coming in
the clouds, that He was using symbolic language,
to state that He was retuning in judgment
against the land.
I also noted that the Bible supports this and that
we can see that, when reading about when God
used Babylon to conquer Egypt, which is past.
"The burden of Egypt. Behold, the LORD rideth upon
a swift cloud, and shall come into Egypt: and the idols
of Egypt shall be moved at his presence, and the heart
of Egypt shall melt in the midst of it." - Isaiah 19:1
This obviously did not happen literally, although God
did indeed judge Egypt and it was conquered by Babylon.
So let us see what Glenn wrote below.
MAKING GOD’S WORD LIE
That is what YOU are doing Glenn, as I will prove
below.
Another trick question from "Pastor Dave" (aka Ananias917)
Why is it that the words of the Bible, are a "trick
question", whenever you can't support your doctrine?
All I did was quote the Bible and show the same words.
Is the Bible "a trick", Glenn???
See below.
quote:
"The burden of Egypt. Behold, the LORD rideth upon
a swift cloud, and shall come into Egypt: and the idols
of Egypt shall be moved at his presence, and the heart
of Egypt shall melt in the midst of it." - Isaiah 19:1
Why do you keep dodging this one, Glenn? Where
can I find it written down that God physically
appeared on this "swift cloud"?
end quote.
Why does Dave take what scripture he thinks proves his false doctrine in
a literal since, literally, and ridicule the rest?
Why does Dave take what scripture he thinks proves his false doctreine
in a metaphor, as a metaphor, and then ridicule the rest?
Why?
because it is only by a private interpretation of God's Word that the
Preterists can support their false Doctrine. "Knowing this first, that
no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation." 2 Peter
1:20.
-----
Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust
in him. Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be
found a liar. Pro. 30:5-6
For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of
this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto
him the plagues that are written in this book: And if any man shall take
away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away
his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the
things which are written in this book. Rev. 22:18-19
The King James Version, (Cambridge: Cambridge) 1769.
-----
There are some who are so ignorant of the Character of God that they say
the verses in Proverbs only meant "words of prophecy" and do not
actually apply to the collection of writings know as "the Old
Testament," and certainly not to the "New Testament." These same
ignorant souls insist that John's warning only applies to the book of
Revelation, and not the rest of the New Testament, and certainly not to
the rest of the Bible.
What these people do not know, since they do not know God, is that what
these verses in Proverbs and Revelation actually do is reveal the Nature
of God.
God has never uttered any Word which He guards any more or less than any
other. This does point to a Character trait of God which those who know
Him can see in every thing He has done, and can trust to see in every
thing He will do: That is, His love of Truth and His hatred of the Lie.
The separation between Truth and Lie is sharper than the division of
Life and Death, and those who cross that line are dead while they yet
breathe.
There may be more ways to add to or take away from God's word than I can
imagine.
Still, I would like to mention a few that I am aware of.
First is actually inserting or omitting words. This may have occurred
when the scribes were trans-scribing His word from one old manuscript to
a new parchment. The work of the scribes was carefully checked and
compared to prevent this kind of error. Since the early scribes and
priests lived under the punishment of death for transgression, it is
hard to conceive anyone committing this act of profanity with forethought.
Over the last several hundred to a 1900 years, the death penalty was
forgotten, and men began to take a little more liberty with the Word of
God. Still, the work of the translators and printers during the time the
King James translation must have felt some awe and fear when working
with His Word, for their work has proved to be extremely accurate.
Still, later translators have taken a greater liberty in their work, so
that many modern translations are no more accurate that the older
versions with which they find fault.
There were, unfortunately, about AD 325 or later, some few men who did
not fear God, and these men did the unthinkable act of profanity.
Since 1880, more men have taken their soul in their hand, and profaned
the Word of God by taking from it or inserting their own words into it.
So Glenn, your response to the word of God found
in Isaiah 19:1, is to tell us that someone inserted it
into the Bible?
Do you have any proof that this verse, or any words
of it, was "inserted" into the Bible?
Face it Glenn, you DO NOT believe God's word!
And thank you for proving what I said about you!
YOU ERASE FROM THE BIBLE, WHATEVER
DOESN'T SUIT YOUR PERSONAL DOCTRINE!
See below.
The second kind of "inserting or removing" I would like to mention is a
little more vague, perhaps, because the words still appear in the text,
but the meaning has been stolen. That is, the profane thief redefines
the word(s) to mean something other than was intended by the Holy
Spirit. As an example, "there was evening and morning, one day." This is
a literal day. But those who cannot accept the literal creation must
redefine the literal day into "epochs" in order to fit their lie into
His Word. This is profanity.
The third kind of "inserting or removing" I think important to recognize
is the use of His word out of context. That is, taking a verse away from
the Scripture where it is found, and by which its meaning can be seen,
and then using that verse in a foreign situation where its meaning can
be distorted. This distortion is actually removing the meaning, or
inserting some meaning into God's Word, and is an act of profanity.
It's meaning can be seen plainly. It speaks of God
riding in on a cloud in judgment against a land.
Jesus speaks of coming in the clouds in judgment
against a land. There is nothing different there.
"Behold, the LORD rideth upon a swift cloud..."
- Isaiah
"...and they shall see the Son of man coming
in the clouds" - Jesus Christ
And who was it who was really present in the OT, Glenn?
For example, who was it there with the people under
Moses, Glenn?
1 Corinthians 10:1-4
1) Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should
be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under
the cloud, and all passed through the sea;
2) And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud
and in the sea;
3) And did all eat the same spiritual meat;
4) And did all drink the same spiritual drink:
for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed
them: and that Rock was Christ.
Don't you believe that Christ was God walking Earth,
Glenn? That He was God manifested to us?
Doesn't it make sense that Christ would have used
the same language when he walked the Earth, that
we see in the OT?
And doesn't it make sense that ever since Christ
was present in that cloud with the people under
Moses, that He would have used clouds as a
symbolic representation of His presence in
judgment, especially since He judged the Egypt
while following the people under Moses?
Do you think it's just coincidence Glenn, that when
He used Babylon to judge Egypt the next time, that
He spoke of coming in a cloud?
Don't you think He was sending a specific message,
by using that specific language? Language that
would have struck terror into the heart of Egypt
(which is what Isaiah 19:1 says would happen),
who would have known about this "God in a cloud"
having destroyed their land the last time?
And don't you think a Jew would have gotten Jesus'
point, when He used that very same "cloud" language
regarding the coming judgment against Jerusalem?
That now, it is THEY who will have their hearts failing
them for fear (Luke 21:26), as God said about Egypt
(their hearts would melt), in Isaiah 19:1???
I guess that just MAKES TOO MUCH SENSE, Glenn!!!
And what did Jesus say to them and what did the chief
priest and Pharisees "know", after Jesus told them how
He was coming back in judgment against them, in their
generation, by using the parable of the land owner, who
came back and took vengeance on the people who killed
his son (not their descendants), in Matthew 21:33-41?
Matthew 21:42-45
42) Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never
read in the Scriptures, The stone which
the builders rejected, the same is become
the head of the corner: This is the Lord's
doing, and it is marvelous in our eyes?
43) Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom
of God shall be taken from you, and given
to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
44) And whosoever shall fall on this stone
shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall
fall, it will grind him to powder.
45) And when the chief priests and Pharisees
had heard his parables, they perceived that
he spake of them.
They "knew" that Jesus was speaking OF THEM!
Not YOU, Glenn!
Not YOUR generation, Glenn!
The last act of profanity I would like to mention has to do with
"translation" or "interpretation" on-the-fly; that is while it is read
or quoted. It is an indisputable fact that much of the Word of God,
especially prophecy, is in the form of Metaphor, or may be Symbolic,
while much is literal. Yet Metaphor and Symbolic language has a meaning,
that meaning intended by God. The point is, that it is God who has
determined what He intended to be Metaphor--and what His intended
meaning is. It is God who has determined what He intended as
Symbolic--and what His intended meaning is. The act of profanity is to
treat what is meant to be symbolic as literal, or what is intended as
Metaphor to be symbolic--and thus without the meaning intended by God.
Then there is the profanity of taking scripture intended as metaphor and
insisting that it be taken literal, and that the literal definition
proves His Word False (see example at top). In this act of profanity the
meaning of His Word is stolen from His People, and His Word is used as a
tool of Satan to create a lie and deceive His People.
There are, or may be, different reasons for people to commit an act of
profanity with God’s Word. Of all the possible reasons someone may
profane the Word of God, the intent to deceive is the most terrible: and
to stand before God on That Day, guilty of profanity with His Word...
with intent to deceive His Children-
I just love the way that you take the phrases that I
use and try to use them against me, Glenn. It only
shows that you know you are guilty of them. :)
You are the one who has kept changing his doctrine
"on the fly". As everyone reading my messages knows,
I have not changed my doctrine AT ALL.
You can whine and moan all you want to Glenn,
but how is showing the same language about
a place being conquered, to take it out of its
proper context for comparison?
The truth is Glenn, YOU CANNOT ANSWER THIS!!!
And so, instead of admitting that, you tell us how
we need to erase a passage from God's word!
And the REALLY FUNNY part of this, is that while
you're telling us all about these "scribal errors" that
have added to the Bible, YOU QUOTE THE BIBLE!!!
Please!
And can you also tell us why you keep failing to
acknowledge that Jesus used the same language
in Matthew 24 & Luke 21, that God used about
when He sent Babylon in to destroy Jerusalem,
which is also in the past, which we know, since
Daniel's book starts with him noting that it
happened?
Isaiah 13:6-11
6) Howl ye; for the day of the LORD is at hand;
it shall come as a destruction from the Almighty.
7) Therefore shall all hands be faint, and every
man's heart shall melt:
8) And they shall be afraid: pangs and sorrows
shall take hold of them; they shall be in pain as
a woman that travaileth: they shall be amazed
one at another; their faces shall be as flames.
9) Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel
both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land
desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof
out of it.
10) For the stars of heaven and the constellations
thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be
darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall
not cause her light to shine.
11) And I will punish the world for their evil, and the
wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the
arrogance of the proud to cease, and will lay low the
haughtiness of the terrible.
Note that it is the SAME LANGUAGE that Jesus used,
regarding the destruction of the SAME PLACE, Glenn.
Are you going to try to tell me THIS ONE doesn't fit
for comparison either, Glenn?
It uses the same language.
Note that it is called the "Day of the Lord".
Note that it says that their hearts would melt.
Note that it says, "pangs and sorrows".
Note that it says that the sinners would be destroyed.
Note that it says that the Sun & Moon would go dark.
Etc., etc..
It uses the same language as Jesus did, in Matthew 24
and Luke 21,
So why do you keep ignoring that Glenn?
As I did in my other message, which you ignored,
let's break it down a bit and do a comparison,
using Isaiah, Matthew, Luke & Revelation.
Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke 21, are all parallel
accounts of Jesus' discourse. So let's put together
some examples and see what we come up with,
utilizing the Scriptures from Isaiah, just quoted
above and remember, that both are talking about
the destruction of Jerusalem. We'll also look at
a bit of Revelation...
#1) Isaiah 13:8 - Matthew 24:8; Luke 21:26
"And they shall be afraid: pangs and sorrows shall take
hold of them; they shall be in pain as a woman that
travaileth: they shall be amazed one at another; their
faces shall be as flames." - Isaiah 13:8
"All these are the beginning of sorrows."
- Matthew 24:8
"Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking
after those things which are coming on the earth: for
the powers of heaven shall be shaken." - Luke 21:26
"And she being with child cried, travailing in birth,
and pained to be delivered." - Revelation 12:2
#2) Isaiah 13:9 - Luke 21:20
"Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with
wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and
he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it."
- Isaiah 13:9
"And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies,
then know that the desolation thereof is nigh."
- Luke 21:20
#3) Isaiah 13:10 - Matthew 24:29
"For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof
shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened
in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her
light to shine." - Isaiah 13:10
"Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall
the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her
light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the
powers of the heavens shall be shaken:" - Matthew 24:29
#4) Isaiah 13:15 - Luke 21:23
"Every one that is found shall be thrust through;
and every one that is joined unto them shall fall
by the sword." - Isaiah 13:15
"But woe unto them that are with child, and to them
that give suck, in those days! For there shall be great
distress in the land, and wrath upon this people."
- Luke 21:23
#5) Isaiah 13:18 - Matthew 24:19
"Their bows also shall dash the young men to pieces;
and they shall have no pity on the fruit of the womb;
their eye shall not spare children." - Isaiah 13:18
"And woe unto them that are with child, and to them
that give suck in those days!" - Matthew 24:29
As I said, it is the SAME LANGUAGE!!!
And now, when we look at the following again,
we can see that Christ used the SAME LANGUAGE
that He did in the OT...
"Behold, the LORD rideth upon a swift cloud..."
- Isaiah
"...and they shall see the Son of man coming
in the clouds" - Jesus Christ
Glenn, you need to get down on your knees and ask
God for forgiveness!!!
You operate from VANITY! And it is that VANITY
which is preventing you from admitting the truth!
When someone seeks to remove the words of the Bible
and every time, claims that what the Bible says isn't
what it says and tries to erase the words in the Bible
that contradict their personal doctrine, then that
person is PURE EVIL!!!
It isn't love that erases God's word.
It isn't goodness that erases God's word.
It is evil that erases God's word!
And this is why in my messages, I quote Scripture
and you use an eraser on Scripture!
--
"And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house;
and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the
Lord, even Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way
as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest
receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost."
- Acts 9:17
Would a loving God send people to Hell?
http://godandscience.org/apologetics/hell.html
.
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| User: "Bible John" |
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| Title: Pastor Dave Raymond changed his name |
27 Dec 2005 11:42:57 AM |
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Pastor Dave Raymond changed his name
--
CERM-Church Education Resource Ministries
http://johnw.freeshell.org/bible/
John 14:6 Jesus answered, ³I am the way and
the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father
except through me.
AIM-Crucifyself03
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| User: "John P. Boatwright" |
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| Title: Re: Pastor Dave Raymond changed his name |
31 Dec 2005 06:55:13 AM |
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Bible John wrote:
Pastor Dave Raymond changed his name
He's hiding again.
God made it all, Jesus died for our sins.
Proof God described the planet density profile
BEFORE science did:
http://home.teleport.com/~salad/4god/density.htm
(see the 2 graphs, obviously God was right in Genesis)
Mirror site at: http://For-God.net
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| User: "Richard Dawkins" |
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| Title: Re: Pastor Dave Raymond changed his name |
02 Jan 2006 11:03:06 AM |
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"John P. Boatwright" <name@For-God.net> wrote in message
news:43B67DE1.1EAB@For-God.net...
Bible John wrote:
Pastor Dave Raymond changed his name
He's hiding again.
I don't believe he is hiding.
He made no attempt to cover up is identity ither than to switch nyms.
People do it all the time because it's fun.
God made it all, Jesus died for our sins.
Proof God described the planet density profile
BEFORE science did:
http://home.teleport.com/~salad/4god/density.htm
(see the 2 graphs, obviously God was right in Genesis)
Mirror site at: http://For-God.net
.
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| User: "David Horn" |
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| Title: Re: Pastor Dave Raymond changed his name |
27 Dec 2005 11:49:39 AM |
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Bible John wrote:
Pastor Dave Raymond changed his name
Comes the dawn.
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