Religions > Bible > Re: Saints intercede/pray for us Rom 15:30, Col 4:3;1 Thess 5:25, 2 Th 1:11, 2 Th 3:1, Eph 6:18-19, Tob 12:12, Rev 5:8,
| Topic: |
Religions > Bible |
| User: |
"Dore" |
| Date: |
09 Jul 2003 08:27:17 PM |
| Object: |
Re: Saints intercede/pray for us Rom 15:30, Col 4:3;1 Thess 5:25, 2 Th 1:11, 2 Th 3:1, Eph 6:18-19, Tob 12:12, Rev 5:8, |
All of these people were living on the earth at the time the request for
prayer or prayers were made. The Catholic saints, are souls that are in
their place of justification and cannot hear, see or KNOW what is happening
on on earth to pray for anyone.
--
Dore
"Honor, Obey, Worship and Respect the Father, for then the Son will be
pleased"
Ps 2:12
12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his
wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in
him.
(KJV)
http://dorewilliamson.com/
"jsm" <jsm542@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:b971a682.0307091524.1ca080af@posting.google.com...
Saints intercede/pray for us, why would some of you think
otherwise?
Rom 15:30 - join me by your prayers to God on my behalf
Col 4:3;1 - pray for us
Thess 5:25- pray for us
2 Th 1:11 - we always pray for you
2 Th 3:1 - finally, brothers, pray for us
Eph 6:18-19- making supplication for all the saints & for me
Tob 12:12 - angel presents Tobit & Sarah's prayer to God
Rev 5:8 - angel offers prayers of the holy ones to God
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| User: "Dore" |
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| Title: Re: Saints intercede/pray for us Rom 15:30, Col 4:3;1 Thess 5:25, 2 Th 1:11, 2 Th 3:1, Eph 6:18-19, Tob 12:12, Rev 5:8, |
10 Jul 2003 06:47:32 PM |
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"John W" <john_weatherly47@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:9ioqgv85bch5gqcj7rjpmkle18t5nubb7r@4ax.com...
If you do not honor the Son, whom you HAVE seen, how can you honor the
Father, whom you have NOT seen?"
The Son and all of His truths, were given 2000 years ago to honor and obey
into preparation and servitude to the Father. The second coming is to JUDGE
those who have obeyed and abided, and to see who is serving God and who is
NOT. So then, those who are honoring the Father, in this day of Judgment,
the Son will be pleased.
Mal 3:18
18 Then shall ye return, and discern between the righteous and the wicked,
between him that serveth God and him that serveth him not.
(KJV)
--
Dore
"Honor, Obey, Worship and Respect the Father, for then the Son will be
pleased"
Ps 2:12
12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his
wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in
him.
(KJV)
http://dorewilliamson.com/
"John W" <john_weatherly47@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:9ioqgv85bch5gqcj7rjpmkle18t5nubb7r@4ax.com...
On Thu, 10 Jul 2003 01:27:17 GMT, "Dore" <spiritfire@frontiernet.net>
wrote:
All of these people were living on the earth at the time the request for
prayer or prayers were made. The Catholic saints, are souls that are in
their place of justification and cannot hear, see or KNOW what is
happening
on on earth to pray for anyone.
--
Dore
"Honor, Obey, Worship and Respect the Father, for then the Son will be
pleased"
If you do not honor the Son, whom you HAVE seen, how can you honor the
Father, whom you have NOT seen?"
Jesus Christ
Ps 2:12
12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his
wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust
in
him.
(KJV)
http://dorewilliamson.com/
.
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| User: "Dore" |
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| Title: Re: Saints intercede/pray for us Rom 15:30, Col 4:3;1 Thess 5:25, 2 Th 1:11, 2 Th 3:1, Eph 6:18-19, Tob 12:12, Rev 5:8, |
09 Jul 2003 09:44:37 PM |
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"bam" <mcca5761@bellsouthblahblah.net> wrote in message
news:%c3Pa.4909$kx6.3290@fe03.atl2.webusenet.com...
If praying to the dead was unheard of in Biblical times, why did the Jews
who were watching Jesus during the crucifixion think that He was calling
out
to Elijah?
I didn't say it was unheard of, I said it was useless, for the dead cannot
hear anyone. Praying to the dead is IDOLATRY, making the dead equal with
God.
PS, Christ was NOT calling out to Elijah, was He?
--
Dore
"Honor, Obey, Worship and Respect the Father, for then the Son will be
pleased"
Ps 2:12
12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his
wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in
him.
(KJV)
http://dorewilliamson.com/
"bam" <mcca5761@bellsouthblahblah.net> wrote in message
news:%c3Pa.4909$kx6.3290@fe03.atl2.webusenet.com...
"Dore" <spiritfire@frontiernet.net> wrote in message
news:Vh3Pa.332$5U7.293@news01.roc.ny...
All of these people were living on the earth at the time the request for
prayer or prayers were made. The Catholic saints, are souls that are in
their place of justification and cannot hear, see or KNOW what is
happening
on on earth to pray for anyone.
If praying to the dead was unheard of in Biblical times, why did the Jews
who were watching Jesus during the crucifixion think that He was calling
out
to Elijah?
BAM
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| User: "bam" |
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| Title: Re: Saints intercede/pray for us Rom 15:30, Col 4:3;1 Thess 5:25, 2 Th 1:11, 2 Th 3:1, Eph 6:18-19, Tob 12:12, Rev 5:8, |
11 Jul 2003 01:28:51 AM |
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"Dore" <spiritfire@frontiernet.net> wrote
You can, but the angles will denounce your prayers. Prayer is a form of
worship, for is the faith that those you pray to have the authority and
power to answer prayer, which God alone can do.
Prayer is not worship - it's much simpler. To pray, "orare", is merely to
ask.
you wrote.
I didn't say Christ was - that was not the point. Re-read my statement.
I know, but my point was that no matter what people believe does NOT make
it
so.
You still failed to grasp the point - no news there.
My beliefs are driven by the truths and righteousness of God.
Idiocy.
I don't call
all men, dirt, only those who sin against GOD. Refusing to pray to the
saints is OBEDIENCE of not committing the sin of idolatry. Praying to
saints
actually is the insult to God, for obviously, you think that God cannot
hear
and that the saints are greater than He is.
Idiocy.
you wrote.
What would a General think if you were a private and refused to take
orders
from anyone but him?
Exactly, so since God is the General, why do YOU refuse to believe what He
commands and do NOT DO what He says, but sin against Him?
Idiocy. Jesus appointed leaders.
The Catholic church does NOT have the authority
The Catholic Church has ALL authority given to her by Jesus Christ Himself.
or righteousness to
determine who is a saint and who is not. I look at all lives, even those
that are called saints by the RCC and judge them according to ALL of the
words of Christ and if they FAIL to abide in any of them, then they cannot
be considered saints. I KNOW what is HOLY , righteous and true, and it is
MY
job to determine who is a saint and who is not. NOT the RCC.
You refuse to look at the saints - because you're a shmuck. You don't want
to know - because you're a shmuck.
BAM
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| User: "Dore" |
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| Title: Re: Saints intercede/pray for us Rom 15:30, Col 4:3;1 Thess 5:25, 2 Th 1:11, 2 Th 3:1, Eph 6:18-19, Tob 12:12, Rev 5:8, |
11 Jul 2003 10:03:30 PM |
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"bam" <mcca5761@bellsouthblahblah.net> wrote in message
news:lHsPa.52834$Sn5.11219@fe05.atl2.webusenet.com...
Prayer is not worship - it's much simpler. To pray, "orare", is merely to
ask.
Yes it is, because in prayer, you are acting on a faith that whomever you
are praying to is a DEITY that has the power and ability to answer that
prayer.
you wrote.
You still failed to grasp the point - no news there.
Why don't you explain it then? Wasn't your point the fact that the Jews
BELIEVED that Christ was calling out to Elijah, therefore praying to a dead
human? And thus my response was that it doesn't matter what the Jews
believed, for what they believe does NOT make it truth. What other point
could you be possibly making?
it was written
My beliefs are driven by the truths and righteousness of God.
Idiocy.
I realize that you have NO desire to seek the truths and righteousness of
God, but cower and bow to Catholic doctrine, and demand that your own
imaginations be truth, but that is your problem, not mine.
you wrote.
The Catholic Church has ALL authority given to her by Jesus Christ
Himself.
HAHAHAHAA, obviously, YOU know NOTHING about the truths of Christ, or the
history, profanity and lies of the RCC.
you wrote.
You refuse to look at the saints - because you're a shmuck. You don't want
to know - because you're a shmuck.
They are nothing more than dead people. NO different from your great
grandmother or any human that has lived and died on the planet. They are NOT
deity, they cannot hear nor answer prayer. THEY ARE DEAD and in their
rightful place according to the justifications of their choices on the
earth.
"Honor, Obey, Worship and Respect the Father, for then the Son will be
pleased"
Ps 2:12
12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his
wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in
him.
(KJV)
http://dorewilliamson.com/
"bam" <mcca5761@bellsouthblahblah.net> wrote in message
news:lHsPa.52834$Sn5.11219@fe05.atl2.webusenet.com...
"Dore" <spiritfire@frontiernet.net> wrote
You can, but the angles will denounce your prayers. Prayer is a form of
worship, for is the faith that those you pray to have the authority and
power to answer prayer, which God alone can do.
Prayer is not worship - it's much simpler. To pray, "orare", is merely to
ask.
you wrote.
I didn't say Christ was - that was not the point. Re-read my
statement.
I know, but my point was that no matter what people believe does NOT
make
it
so.
You still failed to grasp the point - no news there.
My beliefs are driven by the truths and righteousness of God.
Idiocy.
I don't call
all men, dirt, only those who sin against GOD. Refusing to pray to the
saints is OBEDIENCE of not committing the sin of idolatry. Praying to
saints
actually is the insult to God, for obviously, you think that God cannot
hear
and that the saints are greater than He is.
Idiocy.
you wrote.
What would a General think if you were a private and refused to take
orders
from anyone but him?
Exactly, so since God is the General, why do YOU refuse to believe what
He
commands and do NOT DO what He says, but sin against Him?
Idiocy. Jesus appointed leaders.
The Catholic church does NOT have the authority
The Catholic Church has ALL authority given to her by Jesus Christ
Himself.
or righteousness to
determine who is a saint and who is not. I look at all lives, even those
that are called saints by the RCC and judge them according to ALL of the
words of Christ and if they FAIL to abide in any of them, then they
cannot
be considered saints. I KNOW what is HOLY , righteous and true, and it
is
MY
job to determine who is a saint and who is not. NOT the RCC.
You refuse to look at the saints - because you're a shmuck. You don't want
to know - because you're a shmuck.
BAM
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| User: "bam" |
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| Title: Re: Saints intercede/pray for us Rom 15:30, Col 4:3;1 Thess 5:25, 2 Th 1:11, 2 Th 3:1, Eph 6:18-19, Tob 12:12, Rev 5:8, |
12 Jul 2003 03:22:02 AM |
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"Dore" <spiritfire@frontiernet.net> wrote
They are nothing more than dead people. NO different from your great
grandmother or any human that has lived and died on the planet. They are
NOT
deity, they cannot hear nor answer prayer. THEY ARE DEAD and in their
rightful place according to the justifications of their choices on the
earth.
I already spoke to you Dore - you're a shmuck.
BAM
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| User: "John W" |
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| Title: Re: Saints intercede/pray for us Rom 15:30, Col 4:3;1 Thess 5:25, 2 Th 1:11, 2 Th 3:1, Eph 6:18-19, Tob 12:12, Rev 5:8, |
10 Jul 2003 08:00:09 AM |
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On Thu, 10 Jul 2003 02:44:37 GMT, "Dore" <spiritfire@frontiernet.net>
wrote:
"bam" <mcca5761@bellsouthblahblah.net> wrote in message
news:%c3Pa.4909$kx6.3290@fe03.atl2.webusenet.com...
If praying to the dead was unheard of in Biblical times, why did the Jews
who were watching Jesus during the crucifixion think that He was calling
out
to Elijah?
I didn't say it was unheard of, I said it was useless, for the dead cannot
hear anyone. Praying to the dead is IDOLATRY, making the dead equal with
God.
PS, Christ was NOT calling out to Elijah, was He?
Excellent point, Dore. Jesus was, in fact, calling out to Yhwh.
John W
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| User: "bam" |
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| Title: Re: Saints intercede/pray for us Rom 15:30, Col 4:3;1 Thess 5:25, 2 Th 1:11, 2 Th 3:1, Eph 6:18-19, Tob 12:12, Rev 5:8, |
10 Jul 2003 01:38:49 PM |
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"John W" <john_weatherly47@yahoo.com> wrote
PS, Christ was NOT calling out to Elijah, was He?
Excellent point, Dore. Jesus was, in fact, calling out to Yhwh.
John W
No, not at all. It was an evasive action. I said the Jews *thought* Jesus
was praying to Elijah. They could not have thought this if praying to the
dead were unheard of.
We know angels are alive - can we pray to them?
I know your theology better than you do. According to you, we can ask
visible, living people to pray for us, and outside of that, only directly to
God. But you can't defend that biblically.
BAM
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| User: "duke32" |
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| Title: Re: Saints intercede/pray for us Rom 15:30, Col 4:3;1 Thess 5:25, 2 Th 1:11, 2 Th 3:1, Eph 6:18-19, Tob 12:12, Rev 5:8, |
12 Jul 2003 12:36:07 PM |
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On Thu, 10 Jul 2003 01:27:17 GMT, "Dore" <spiritfire@frontiernet.net>
wrote:
All of these people were living on the earth at the time the request for
prayer or prayers were made. The Catholic saints, are souls that are in
their place of justification and cannot hear, see or KNOW what is happening
on on earth to pray for anyone.
Why not. Jesus met with Moses and Elijah Mark 9:4, and they were long
physically dead. And he wouldn't be meeting with anyone that took the
final voyage to the land of satan, from which no one leaves.
duke, American-American
*****
One day every tongue
Will confess You are God.
One day every knee will bow.
Still the greatest treasure remains
For those who gladly choose you now.
*****
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| User: "Stephanie" |
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| Title: Re: Saints intercede/pray for us Rom 15:30, Col 4:3;1 Thess 5:25, 2 Th 1:11, 2 Th 3:1, Eph 6:18-19, Tob 12:12, Rev 5:8, |
10 Jul 2003 11:53:40 AM |
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On Wed, 09 Jul 2003 21:32:28 -0400, bam wrote:
If praying to the dead was unheard of in Biblical times, why did the Jews
who were watching Jesus during the crucifixion think that He was calling out
to Elijah?
Darn, BAM, you´ve gotten GOOD in the years I´ve been away!
(Writes that down)
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| User: "John W" |
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| Title: Re: Saints intercede/pray for us Rom 15:30, Col 4:3;1 Thess 5:25, 2 Th 1:11, 2 Th 3:1, Eph 6:18-19, Tob 12:12, Rev 5:8, |
10 Jul 2003 07:59:19 AM |
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On Wed, 9 Jul 2003 21:32:28 -0400, "bam"
<mcca5761@bellsouthblahblah.net> wrote:
"Dore" <spiritfire@frontiernet.net> wrote in message
news:Vh3Pa.332$5U7.293@news01.roc.ny...
All of these people were living on the earth at the time the request for
prayer or prayers were made. The Catholic saints, are souls that are in
their place of justification and cannot hear, see or KNOW what is
happening
on on earth to pray for anyone.
If praying to the dead was unheard of in Biblical times, why did the Jews
who were watching Jesus during the crucifixion think that He was calling out
to Elijah?
BAM
The Old Testament contains "types". One prophet was the "type" for the
next. For instance, the easiest to remember was that Elisha was the
next of the "type" of Elijah.
When Jesus came, Jesus asked the disciples, "Whom do men say that I
am?" The disciples answered "Some say "Elijah" (the type), others...
(another "type")
Some have misconstrued this to mean reincarnation. Not at all. You
must familiarize yourself with Jewish custom and tradition in the 2nd
Millinneium BC.
Too many don't bother and they presume too much.
John W
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| User: "Glenn Christian Mystic" |
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| Title: Re: Saints intercede/pray for us Rom 15:30, Col 4:3;1 Thess 5:25, 2 Th 1:11, 2 Th 3:1, Eph 6:18-19, Tob 12:12, Rev 5:8, |
25 Jul 2003 06:49:06 PM |
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Read, Matt.22:23; Mark 12:27; Luke 20:38 !
On Thu, 10 Jul 2003 01:27:17 GMT, "Dore" <spiritfire@frontiernet.net>
wrote:
All of these people were living on the earth at the time the request for
prayer or prayers were made. The Catholic saints, are souls that are in
their place of justification and cannot hear, see or KNOW what is happening
on on earth to pray for anyone.
--
Dore
"Honor, Obey, Worship and Respect the Father, for then the Son will be
pleased"
Ps 2:12
12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his
wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in
him.
(KJV)
http://dorewilliamson.com/
"jsm" <jsm542@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:b971a682.0307091524.1ca080af@posting.google.com...
Saints intercede/pray for us, why would some of you think
otherwise?
Rom 15:30 - join me by your prayers to God on my behalf
Col 4:3;1 - pray for us
Thess 5:25- pray for us
2 Th 1:11 - we always pray for you
2 Th 3:1 - finally, brothers, pray for us
Eph 6:18-19- making supplication for all the saints & for me
Tob 12:12 - angel presents Tobit & Sarah's prayer to God
Rev 5:8 - angel offers prayers of the holy ones to God
.
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