| Topic: |
Religions > Bible |
| User: |
"70AD" |
| Date: |
01 Jan 2006 07:27:13 PM |
| Object: |
Re: SATAN LOCKED IN THE PIT, THEN RELEASED |
On Sun, 01 Jan 2006 12:19:23 -0800, oldwetdog
<oldwetdog@hotmail.com> spake thusly:
So we have identified The End. (19:11-21, 20:9-15.) However, these
events are still in our future. Are there events which have occurred in
our recent history by which we can correctly identify the sequence of
depicted events?
It is not possible to establish an exact date for Satan's imprisonment.
However, by examining the history of mankind and the Church it becomes
clear Satan's war against Judah and the Church became more and more
severe after A.D. 70, finally reaching its peak in about 800 or 900.
Sorry, but you are wrong for two reasons...
1) It was never more brutal than it was under Nero.
You are ignorant of the history of this and you
intentionally ignore it when you are shown.
2) Jesus did not speak of the last days events as being
solely about "the church". In fact, in His discourse,
He clearly said "Jerusalem and Judea", which means
that the deaths were not singling out Christians.
--
"Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass,
till all these things be fulfilled." - Matthew 24:34
http://www.creationists.org/ervin.html
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| User: "oldwetdog" |
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| Title: Re: SATAN LOCKED IN THE PIT, THEN RELEASED |
01 Jan 2006 08:17:08 PM |
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70AD wrote:
On Sun, 01 Jan 2006 12:19:23 -0800, oldwetdog
<oldwetdog@hotmail.com> spake thusly:
Dave loves to cross post, so i will just piggyback the original post to
his reply...
;-)
-----
SATAN LOCKED IN THE PIT, THEN RELEASED
First allow me to say that we know Satan and the false prophets will be
defeated because BOTH Revelation Chapter 19 verses 11 to 21 AND Chapter
20 verses 9 to 15 declare the defeat and destruction of Satan and the
false prophets USING THE SAME TERMS "cast into the lake of fire." (19:20
and 20:10). And see 11:7-13 et al.
Revelation 20:1-3. "And I saw an angel come down from Heaven, having the
key..." "He laid hold on the dragon ...old serpent, which is the devil,
and bound him for a thousand years."
Satan; who had been deceiving the nations (12:17) and using them (as he
had Pharaoh, Herod and Titus) in his attempt to destroy the remnant of
Judah and the Church; is locked into the pit.
Identify the context first. We will consider the events depicted in this
vision, and attempt to answer some questions: When was Satan locked into
the Pit? Were the thousand years literal? When, in earth time, did (or
will) these depicted events occur? In order to answer these questions
and identify the correct "earth time sequence," we must locate the key
words so we can match them with recognizable clues in other visions, and
historic events.
We first notice this vision is divided into several major sections. The
description of Satan's imprisonment is first. (v 1-3.) The second
section is the "first resurrection" and the "thousand year" time period.
(v 4-6. The third section depicts Satan's release and renewed war on
Judah and Christianity in particular, and mankind in general. (v 7-8.)
The last section depicts our Lord's coming and Satan's defeat. (v 9-10.)
The most obvious sign of the times is at the end of the vision: Satan's
defeat. (v 9-10) Also depicted is The End of this world and The Final
Judgment. (v 11-15.) Dan. 12:1-3, Mal. 3:16-18, 4:1-3, 1 Cor. 15:52, 1
Thes. 4:13-17, 2 Peter 3:7-12. Rev. 6:12-17, 11:15-19, 16:17-21, 20:10-15.
So we have identified The End. (19:11-21, 20:9-15.) However, these
events are still in our future. Are there events which have occurred in
our recent history by which we can correctly identify the sequence of
depicted events?
It is not possible to establish an exact date for Satan's imprisonment.
However, by examining the history of mankind and the Church it becomes
clear Satan's war against Judah and the Church became more and more
severe after A.D. 70, finally reaching its peak in about 800 or 900. At
about that time, the depth of the Dark Ages, mankind's slip into
darkness halted, and then reversed. Then, in about 1200, the period
known as the Renaissance began, which reached its brightest hour with
the printing of the King James Bible in 1611. (Aside from the Sacrifice
of the Lamb of God, this was mankind's brightest hour.)
So there is evidence Satan was missing from Earth for some part of
recent history, which allowed man's renaissance. We can also see
evidence of his release from the pit.
Satan is loosed in verses 7-8: "And when the thousand years are expired,
Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, and shall go out to deceive the
nations..." What evidence is there that God has allowed Satan to be
released? That Satan used the Ideology (delusion) of Godless Communism
to conquer Russia is but one symptom. That the delusions known as
"Evolution," "Big Bang theory" and "Relativity" have deluded all the
nations is a little more. But there is much more. "And I saw, and behold
a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given
unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer." Rev. 6:2. The
release of Satan from the pit and the First Seal are the same event.
Russia's first Cosmonaut declared he saw no God in the heavens. In
Modern Babylon it is against the law of the land to teach the Bible
account of Creation to school children. Yet liars teach children
"something which did not exist created itself" with a straight face.
Pagan religions and witchcraft are growing. Sophists and Liberal
Theologians openly ridicule those who believe a literal interpretation
of God's Word. And yet there is more. The Spirit of God bears witness:
The angel loosed Satan upon mankind between 1800 and 1900 -- the
thousand years are expired. As 12:13-14 was the present time for the
Early Saints, these verses (7-8) depict current events for this generation.
Satan's war against the Saints begins as guerilla warfare: a secret
ideological, economic and religious war which soon becomes murderous.
Verse 9: "And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed
the camp of the Saints about, and the beloved city..." This is the
beginning of the Battle of Armageddon, the day of Jezreel. Hosea 1:11,
Isa. 34:1-4, Zec. 14, Zep. 1:15-18, Dan. 11:40-45 and Rev. 9:14-16,
11:7-13, 19:11-21. Verse 9 depicts The End of human affairs.
The early Saints are seen in verses 4-6: "The souls of them who were
beheaded for the witness of Jesus..." These souls, the early Saints, are
described as having refused the mark of the beast. We should not assume
this is the mark of the beast depicted in Chapter 13. These are the same
beast (Ch. 13) seen by Daniel. Dan. 7:7. This is the beast who will
defeat the Saints and rule the earth for 42 months, and will be
destroyed by the Lord when He comes. 2 Thes. 2:3-12. The Beast in
Chapter 13 is the same beast who will murder the Saints after they
complete their 1260 days testimony. Rev. 11:7. This beast is not
released upon the earth until 20:7, yet these Saints (in vv. 4-6) are
killed and resurrected before Satan is released from the pit to deceive
the nations.
During the affliction of the Early Saints, the Emperor of Rome claimed
to be God; and by acknowledging him as 'God' a man could save his
worthless flesh. The Pope of the Catholic Church claimed to be 'God' and
murdered millions of Christians who would not accept his mark. These are
those Saints, our brothers, and they can also be seen in Rev. 6:9-11 and
14:1-5. These are those who received the mark of our Lord depicted in
Ezekiel Chapter 9. They are the "firstfruits." Acts 2:38, James 1:18.
When was, or will be, the thousand years time period? "And they lived
and reigned with Christ for a thousand years..." Is this ("lived and
reigned with Christ") a promise of a kingdom on this physical earth?
Before we continue, we should consider Revelation 22:18. "If any man add
unto these things..." It will be wise to continue with caution. We will
want to make every effort to add neither words nor definitions ("Yes, we
know it says thus and so, but what it means is something else") to the
Word of God. So while we consider these verses we will want to consider
carefully not only the words which are in them, but also the words which
are not.
Consider these words carefully: "And they lived and reigned with Christ
for a thousand years." This Scripture says they "With Christ." The
Kingdom over which Christ reigns is His People: The Church; Ecclesia,
The Congregation. The Kingdom of God is a Kingdom of People, not a
Kingdom of Earthly land. This Kingdom was established in A.D. 30. Luke
9:27, Mark 16:19, Acts 2:37-47. Col. 1:2-18, Rev 12:10.
Y'shua said, "My kingdom is not from this world. If my kingdom were from
this world, my followers would be fighting to keep me from being handed
over to the Jews. But as it is, my kingdom is not from here." 37 Pilate
asked him, "So you are a king?" Jesus answered, "You say that I am a
king. For this I was born, and for this I came into the world, to
testify to the truth. Everyone who belongs to the truth listens to my
voice." 38 Pilate asked him, "What is truth?" John 18:36. ASV.
Paul wrote, "Flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom..." 1 Cor.
15:50-52. The Scriptures plainly teach His Kingdom is eternal, and is
not of this earth. Dan. 2:44, Isa. 9:6-7, Luke 1:32-33.
How--then--can some teach that He will establish a kingdom on this earth
which will last for a thousand years? They do it by adding words and
definitions to God's Word which are not in it.
Read these Scriptures for yourself. Study them; meditate on them in
prayer and fasting. Ask the Lord for understanding. God, by His Holy
Spirit, will open your mind and give you His definition of His Word. You
do not need to study what the theologians write about His Word: you can
understand His Word. Pro. 9:10, Ecc. 2:26, Dan. 12:9-10, James 1:5.
First, we need to learn His Word. Before we can recognize the lies which
are being told about these verses, we need to learn exactly what they
say. Once we know exactly what they do say, then we can recognize what
they do not say. When we are sure of exactly what they say and do not
say, then we can understand what they mean.
The Scripture cannot mean something it does not say. The most powerful
thing a Christian can do to defend himself against the lies of Satan, is
learn what The Word says. If we do not know what The Word of God says,
how can we hope to understand what it means?
"And they lived and reigned with Christ..." This does not say, "Christ
will reign on this earth." (To where did Christ ascend to sit on His
Father's throne? Mark 16:19, Rev. 12:5, 10.) "They reigned with Christ"
has nothing to do with the location of Christ's reign, or with the
duration of His reign. His reign has already begun and will last
forever. He reigns His Kingdom (which is not physical, of this earth)
from His Father's throne in Heaven. The Saints will "reign with" Him for
a thousand years.
Verses 4 to 6 do not say the Lord will come to this earth and establish
an earthly kingdom which will last for a thousand years. Only those who
do not love Truth will insist they mean something they don't say.
We should also ask, "What will end?" Verse 7: "When the thousand years
are ended..." We need to determine exactly what this verse identifies as
having ended. Did Christ's reign end? No. Did the reign of the Saints
with Christ end? No. This scripture said the thousand years ended. It is
the time period which ends, not the reign of Christ, or the Saints reign
with Him. This Scripture tells us when the time period ends the location
of Satan will change. "When the thousand years are expired, Satan will
be loosed from the pit."
The Time Period ended, Satan was loosed from his prison when the First
Seal was opened.
Were the "thousand years" a literal thousand years? We know the Pope of
the Holy Roman Catholic Church grew in power until controlling the known
world. The "reign of harlots" was about the time the Pope reached the
peak of his power, and the Dark Ages reached their depth. We can show
that between eight to nine hundred CE the Pope began to loose control of
men's minds.
By comparing the key words in this vision to recognizable events
(sophistry and war) in history, it is evident Satan was loosed in about
1880. If Satan were locked into the pit between 800-900 and then
released between 1800-1900, then the "thousand years" were literal. But
regardless of whether or not the thousand years were literal, the Signs
of the Times reveal that Satan has been loosed from the pit and the
First, Second and Third Seals have been opened.
He will give understanding to those who ask. Dan. 12:9-10. Compare the
following Scriptures: Ecc. 2:26, Isa. 28:9-10, Dan 2:21 and 1 Cor. 2:12.
In contrast to: Isa. 44:25, 1 Cor. 1:19-21, 3:18-20.
owd
http://www.xprt.net/~servitum/
-----
Common sense is in spite of, not the result of, education. Victor Hugo
..
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| User: "H.E. Eickleberry, Jr." |
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| Title: Re: SATAN LOCKED IN THE PIT, THEN RELEASED |
01 Jan 2006 09:49:55 PM |
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"oldwetdog" <oldwetdog@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:11rh3988hloe950@corp.supernews.com...
70AD wrote:
On Sun, 01 Jan 2006 12:19:23 -0800, oldwetdog
<oldwetdog@hotmail.com> spake thusly:
Dave loves to cross post, so i will just piggyback the original post to
his reply...
;-)
-----
SATAN LOCKED IN THE PIT, THEN RELEASED
First allow me to say that we know Satan and the false prophets will be
defeated because BOTH Revelation Chapter 19 verses 11 to 21 AND Chapter 20
verses 9 to 15 declare the defeat and destruction of Satan and the false
prophets USING THE SAME TERMS "cast into the lake of fire." (19:20 and
20:10). And see 11:7-13 et al.
Once again, you screw things up.
It will be an unholy trinity, not an unholy duality.
False messiah, false prophet, false god.
The false messiah and the false prophets are "cast into the lake of fire" at
the coming of the Lord, and Satan is bound.
Then Satan is released to commit the seventh sin, at which time Satan is
destroyed.
All this explains why you were so screwed up when you said Satan couldn't be
"destroyed twice."
You need to find something else to do, because you sure don't know anything
about prophecy.
Ike
--
Don't put a period where God put a question mark.
******************************
"The Character Map: An Introduction to the Introductions in Revelation" is
now available in hardcover, softcover, and ebook editions.
For a synopsis, author bio, an explanation of the real "code" in Revelation,
an excerpt, and links to major sales sites, visit
www.eickleberrybooks.com
******************************
Remove X from address to reply
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| User: "70AD" |
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| Title: Re: SATAN LOCKED IN THE PIT, THEN RELEASED |
01 Jan 2006 08:37:38 PM |
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On Sun, 01 Jan 2006 18:17:08 -0800, oldwetdog
<oldwetdog@hotmail.com> spake thusly:
70AD wrote:
On Sun, 01 Jan 2006 12:19:23 -0800, oldwetdog
<oldwetdog@hotmail.com> spake thusly:
Dave loves to cross post, so i will just piggyback the original post to
his reply...
And here you are, lying again to try to attack me.
You were cross posting your messages into different
news groups.
When you saw that people in multiple groups would
see my rebuttal, you started posting them into a single
news group, so that when I responded, it would only
go into one group.
But here's the hitch. You then sent the same post into
multiple groups, one at a time, so yes, you sent them
into just as many news groups.
Now you wish to paint me as evil, for simply cutting
to the chase and adding the groups into one response,
instead of sending a separate response of the same text
into each group.
You are a foolish man!
--
"Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass,
till all these things be fulfilled." - Matthew 24:34
"If the solar system was brought about by an accidental
collision, then the appearance of organic life on this
planet was also an accident and the whole evolution of
man was an accident too. If so, then all our thought
processes are mere accidents - the accidental
by-product of the movement of atoms. And this holds
for the materialists' and astronomers' as well as for
anyone else's. But if their thoughts - i.e., of
materialism and astronomy - are merely accidental
by-products, why should we believe them to be true?
I see no reason for believing that one accident
should be able to give a correct account of all
the other accidents." - C.S. Lewis, God in the Dock
This signature was made by SigChanger.
You can find SigChanger at: http://www.phranc.nl/
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| User: "70AD" |
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| Title: Re: SATAN LOCKED IN THE PIT, THEN RELEASED |
01 Jan 2006 08:39:28 PM |
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On Sun, 01 Jan 2006 18:17:08 -0800, oldwetdog
<oldwetdog@hotmail.com> spake thusly:
70AD wrote:
On Sun, 01 Jan 2006 12:19:23 -0800, oldwetdog
<oldwetdog@hotmail.com> spake thusly:
Dave loves to cross post, so i will just piggyback the original post to
his reply...
Answer the point.
Using Luke, You said that the most important sign
that proved that Christ has not returned yet, is as
follows...
"But before all these, they shall lay their hands on
you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the
synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before
kinds and rulers for My Name's sake. And it shall
turn to you for a testimony."
That is a quote of your message and what you claimed
(those verses) is absolute proof that Christ could not
have returned yet, because you said that those things
have not happened yet.
You want us to believe that this never happened
to the Apostles, when the New Testament is full
of examples of it happening and when history
records that they were martyred under Nero.
So let's look at them, one by one and see what happens
when we do, okay? I'll be nice and I won't even bring
history into it. I'll just stick to whatever the Bible
says. And I'll be even nicer and I won't quote every
example from the Bible.
Here is the list of things mentioned in what you quoted
and my responses to them...
1) THEY WOULD BE PERSECUTED.
They were persecuted right from the start.
"And to him they agreed: and when they had called
the apostles, and beaten them, they commanded
that they should not speak in the name of Jesus,
and let them go." - Acts 5:40
Paul even persecuted Christians himself, "unto death".
Is death not harsh enough of a persecution for you?
Does it not qualify as persecution, Glenn (OWD)?
"And I persecuted this way unto the death, binding
and delivering into prisons both men and women."
- Acts 22:4
Of course, Paul himself was also later persecuted
and stated that they all were.
1 Corinthians 4:9-13
9) For I think that God hath set forth us the apostles
last, as it were appointed to death: for we are made
a spectacle unto the world, and to angels, and to men.
10) We are fools for Christ's sake, but ye are wise in
Christ; we are weak, but ye are strong; ye are
honorable, but we are despised.
11) Even unto this present hour we both hunger, and
thirst, and are naked, and are buffeted, and have no
certain dwelling place;
12) And labor, working with our own hands: being
reviled, we bless; being persecuted, we suffer it:
13) Being defamed, we entreat: we are made as
the filth of the world, and are the offscouring of
all things unto this day.
2 Corinthians 4:8-11
8) We are troubled on every side, yet not distressed;
we are perplexed, but not in despair;
9) Persecuted, but not forsaken; cast down, but not
destroyed;
10) Always bearing about in the body the dying of
the Lord Jesus, that the life also of Jesus might be
made manifest in our body.
11) For we which live are always delivered unto death
for Jesus' sake, that the life also of Jesus might be
made manifest in our mortal flesh.
Paul confessed again that he persecuted the church
and "wasted it".
"For ye have heard of my conversation in time past
in the Jews' religion, how that beyond measure
I persecuted the church of God, and wasted it:"
- Galatians 1:13
Paul also talks about the Jewish Christians being
persecuted by their own countrymen.
1 Thessalonians 2:14-15
14) For ye, brethren, became followers of the churches
of God which in Judea are in Christ Jesus: for ye also
have suffered like things of your own countrymen, even
as they have of the Jews:
15) Who both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own
prophets, and have persecuted us; and they please
not God, and are contrary to all men:
"Are they ministers of Christ? I (speak as a fool)
I am more; in labors more abundant, in stripes
above measure, in prisons more frequent, in
deaths oft." - 2 Corinthians 11:23
2) THEY WOULD BE DELIVERED UP TO SYNAGOGUES.
I won't quote all of one of the examples, for space
considerations, but everyone is free to read
Acts 5:17-41 and I think that, in combination
with 1 Thessalonians 2:14-15 above, that is
proof enough of this one.
3) THEY WOULD BE THROWN INTO PRISONS.
Again, we can see Acts 5:17-41 as proof and we know
that Paul was imprisoned often and wrote letters
that we have in the New Testament from prisons.
"Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen, and my
fellow prisoners, who are of note among the apostles,
who also were in Christ before me." - Romans 16:7
In fact, we can look throughout the NT and see how
many times Paul called himself, "the prisoner of
Jesus Christ", which he said to indicate that he was
locked up in prison.
2 Corinthians 6:4-5
4) But in all things approving ourselves as the
ministers of God, in much patience, in afflictions,
in necessities, in distresses,
5) In stripes, in imprisonments, in tumults,
in labors, in watchings, in fastings;
"Are they ministers of Christ? I (speak as a fool)
I am more; in labors more abundant, in stripes
above measure, in prisons more frequent, in
deaths oft." - 2 Corinthians 11:23
"Aristarchus my fellow prisoner saluteth you"
- Colossians 4:10a
4) THEY WOULD BE BROUGHT BEFORE RULERS.
Again, Acts 5:17-41 proves this had already happened
and other passages as well.
Let us also note that the latter part of Acts shows
how Paul was brought before Felix, Festus and
ends with him on his way to testify before Caesar.
Also...
"All the saints salute you, chiefly they that are
of Caesar's household." - Philippians 4:22
5) IT WOULD TURN TO THEM FOR A TESTIMONY.
Acts 14:2-3
2) But the unbelieving Jews stirred up the Gentiles,
and made their minds evil affected against the
brethren.
3) Long time therefore abode they speaking boldly
in the Lord, which gave testimony unto the word
of his grace, and granted signs and wonders to be
done by their hands.
1 Corinthians 1:4-6
4) I thank my God always on your behalf, for the grace
of God which is given you by Jesus Christ;
5) That in every thing ye are enriched by him, in all
utterance, and in all knowledge;
6) Even as the testimony of Christ was confirmed
in you:
"Be not thou therefore ashamed of the testimony
of our Lord, nor of me his prisoner: but be thou
partaker of the afflictions of the gospel according
to the power of God;" - 2 Timothy 1:8
And I will end this with Paul's words, which show
why all of this was happening. And I want you to
note that Paul said something quite different than
what you say, when you claim that the writers of
the New Testament were wrong...
Acts 27:23-25
23) For there stood by me this night the angel of God,
whose I am, and whom I serve,
24) Saying, Fear not, Paul; thou must be brought
before Caesar: and, lo, God hath given thee all
them that sail with thee.
25) Wherefore, sirs, be of good cheer: FOR I BELIEVE
GOD, THAT IT SHALL BE EVEN AS IT WAS TOLD ME.
There are many more examples in the NT.
And remember Glenn (oldwetdog), you said these things
were in fact... "the most important sign that proved
that Christ has not returned yet".
So which is it Glenn (OWD)? Is the Bible right?
Or were the writers of the NT, once again, wrong,
because they disagree WITH YOU?!
--
"Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass,
till all these things be fulfilled." - Matthew 24:34
"Many fossils have been collected since 1859, tons of
them, yet the impact they have had on our understanding
of the relationships between living organisms is barely
perceptible. ...In fact, I do not think it unfair to
say that fossils, or at least the traditional
interpretation of fossils, have clouded rather than
clarified our attempts to reconstruct phylogeny."
(Fortey, P. L., "Neontological Analysis Versus
Palaeontological Stores," 1982, p. 120-121)
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| User: "Bull" |
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| Title: Re: Re: SATAN LOCKED IN THE PIT, THEN RELEASED |
01 Jan 2006 08:03:52 PM |
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On Mon, 02 Jan 2006 01:27:13 GMT, 70AD
<_-_Ananias917_-_@gmail.com> wrote:
On Sun, 01 Jan 2006 12:19:23 -0800, oldwetdog
<oldwetdog@hotmail.com> spake thusly:
So we have identified The End. (19:11-21,
20:9-15.) However, these
events are still in our future. Are there events
which have occurred in
our recent history by which we can correctly
identify the sequence of
depicted events?
It is not possible to establish an exact date for
Satan's imprisonment.
However, by examining the history of mankind and
the Church it becomes
clear Satan's war against Judah and the Church
became more and more
severe after A.D. 70, finally reaching its peak
in about 800 or 900.
Sorry, but you are wrong for two reasons...
1) It was never more brutal than it was under
Nero.
You are ignorant of the history of this and you
intentionally ignore it when you are shown.
2) Jesus did not speak of the last days events as
being
solely about "the church". In fact, in His
discourse,
He clearly said "Jerusalem and Judea", which means
that the deaths were not singling out Christians.
Two christians locked in a fight to the death. Who
needs lions? Love it -- can't even agree on what
day it is.
-
Omne vivum ex ovo
-
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