| Topic: |
Religions > Bible |
| User: |
"Ananias917" |
| Date: |
24 Dec 2005 02:14:45 AM |
| Object: |
Re: SHOULD WE EXPECT THE MESSIAH NOW ? |
On Fri, 23 Dec 2005 19:27:05 -0600, "Daniel & Annette
Halligan" <Penguin@cybrzn.com> spake thusly:
(Matthew 24:48) But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My
lord delayeth his coming;
(2 Peter 3:4) And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the
fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of
the creation.
You futurists claim that people mocking about Jesus'
return, is proof that we are the generation that is in
the last days.
Peter wrote that to a first century audience. Why?
Because they were experiencing the mocking.
Do you really think Peter wrote that, mailed it to them
and said, "But don't open it for 2,000 years."?
If they were experiencing the mocking in the first
century, then they, BY YOUR OWN LOGIC, were
the ones in the last days.
So you have just proved for me, that the last days
were back then, in the first century.
But does the Bible agree with that? Does it agree
with the idea that the people in the first century
were the ones in the last days?
Why yes, it does....
Hebrews 1:1-2
1) God who at sundry times and in divers manners
spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2) Hath IN THESE LAST DAYS spoken unto us by
his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things,
by whom also he made the worlds
To open the Bible and quote things from it, as if they
wee\re just written yesterday, just for you and to use
them as if they had no relevance to the people they
were actually written to, is one of the most dishonest
things you can do with your Bible!
--
"And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house;
and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the
Lord, even Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way
as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest
receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost."
- Acts 9:17
Would a loving God send people to Hell?
http://godandscience.org/apologetics/hell.html
.
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| User: "peter bayliss" |
|
| Title: Re: SHOULD WE EXPECT THE MESSIAH NOW ? |
24 Dec 2005 10:59:34 AM |
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A loving God does not send people to hell. People by their lack
of love
send themselves to hell. Photopop
"Ananias917" <_-_Ananias917_-_@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:8q0qq1hmpk5mlaun62j8qm43419akm9lc0@4ax.com...
On Fri, 23 Dec 2005 19:27:05 -0600, "Daniel & Annette
Halligan" <Penguin@cybrzn.com> spake thusly:
(Matthew 24:48) But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My
lord delayeth his coming;
(2 Peter 3:4) And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since
the
fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning
of
the creation.
You futurists claim that people mocking about Jesus'
return, is proof that we are the generation that is in
the last days.
Peter wrote that to a first century audience. Why?
Because they were experiencing the mocking.
Do you really think Peter wrote that, mailed it to them
and said, "But don't open it for 2,000 years."?
If they were experiencing the mocking in the first
century, then they, BY YOUR OWN LOGIC, were
the ones in the last days.
So you have just proved for me, that the last days
were back then, in the first century.
But does the Bible agree with that? Does it agree
with the idea that the people in the first century
were the ones in the last days?
Why yes, it does....
Hebrews 1:1-2
1) God who at sundry times and in divers manners
spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2) Hath IN THESE LAST DAYS spoken unto us by
his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things,
by whom also he made the worlds
To open the Bible and quote things from it, as if they
wee\re just written yesterday, just for you and to use
them as if they had no relevance to the people they
were actually written to, is one of the most dishonest
things you can do with your Bible!
--
"And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house;
and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the
Lord, even Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way
as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest
receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost."
- Acts 9:17
Would a loving God send people to Hell?
http://godandscience.org/apologetics/hell.html
.
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| User: "Ananias917" |
|
| Title: Re: SHOULD WE EXPECT THE MESSIAH NOW ? |
24 Dec 2005 11:43:21 AM |
|
|
On Sat, 24 Dec 2005 16:59:34 GMT, "peter bayliss"
<pbbg16545@blueyonder.co.uk> spake thusly:
A loving God does not send people to hell. People by their lack
of love
send themselves to hell. Photopop
1) Top posting, especially without inserting a break
between your words and those you are responding to,
is rude and show that you have no consideration for
anyone who may be reading your response.
2) I did not say that God sends people to Hell.
You didn't bother to read the link. You assumed
that it was an atheist link or something.
--
"And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house;
and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the
Lord, even Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way
as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest
receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost."
- Acts 9:17
Would a loving God send people to Hell?
http://godandscience.org/apologetics/hell.html
.
|
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|
|
| User: "Werner -the Christian Agnostic- Kurator" |
|
| Title: Re: SHOULD WE EXPECT THE MESSIAH NOW ? |
24 Dec 2005 02:09:50 PM |
|
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peter bayliss in <W7frf.20018$D47.14135@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk>
on 2005-12-24 announced this statement:
[reformatting done to clear up who said what,]
A loving God does not send people to hell. People by their lack
of love send themselves to hell.
Photopop
Do you think we are living in "heaven" NOW, if your answer is NO, what
would you call it?
Werner Kurator
Would a loving God send people to Hell?
Leslie D. Weatherhead in "The Christian Agnostic" (Abingdon Press 1965)
(pp: 281-282)
We must at once trow over as unworthy of God any vestigial ideas
remaining in our minds that anyone, whatever he believes or does is
landed in some kind of endless torture after death.
It is surely probable that Jesus viewing the burning of rubbish in the
valley of Hinnom, called Gehenna, used it, as he was so found of using
the things men saw every day, to point certain lessons. All that flame
could consume in the valley of burning was consumed. But there was
always a valuable residue, ashes used for cultivating soil or clinkers
for making roads. True the flames never went out, because daily, new
material was dumped on to the burning mass by the dustmen of Jerusalem.
But, equally true, nothing of value was destroyed. The fact that a fire
burns for a long time, does not mean it acts upon the same material. It
can only consume what is inflammable. Hell may last as long as sinful
humanity last but does not mean that any individual will remain in it
all the time. The time of purging can only continue until purification
is reached. And a God driven to employ an endless hell would be a God
turned fiend himself, defeated in his original purpose
The Gospel writers, like our own grandfathers, distorted the words of
Jesus, impelled to do so by that age-long streak of malice in man which
makes him desire that those who don't agree with him and follow his
teachings shall suffer. In a footnote (p:276) Weatherhead writes: The
word "kolasis" translated "punishment" means "pruning" clearly something
done to promote subsequent growth and change. So God has even a purpose
in all of this.
(pp:286)
No words used in the Gospel's can legitimately be twisted to mean
unending punishment, and indeed, such a expression is
self-contradictory. The main motive of punishment surely is often to
reform the sufferer; in school to make a better scholar; in the state,
to make a better citizen. If the *punishment* (emphasis in original
text) goes on forever when does the sufferer benefit by the punishment
or use the lessons he has learned so painfully? If hell is endless it
would be meaningless.
Yet for myself I do not throw over the imagery of fire. I cannot, for
our Lord introduced it, however his followers may have distorted it. And
there is a compliment implied in the very use of the word "fire". Wood
hay and stubble are destroyed by fire. Gold is "refined" by it. Since
destruction cannot be God's plan, his use of of a discipline comparable
with fire points to mans character being of the nature of gold which
benefits by it. Nor does one forget that the refiner of gold carries the
purifying process to the point at which he can *see* *his* *own* *face*
(emphasis in original text) in the molten metal.
<unquote>
And what about all those who lived by the golden rule, which is a clear
indication that God was revealing himself to other people in different
nations. And still many who had no chance ever to receive Christ will go
to everlasting punishment. They just had no chance.....Strange when I
look up the references about the Judgment, then I read: Jeremiah 17:10 I
the LORD search the heart and examine the mind, and reward a man
according to his conduct, according to what his deeds deserve!. Rev.20
12, also speaks about deeds and not believe or faith.
If we are to believe in a eternal everlasting existence of the human
being, than any punishment in hell, would grossly outweigh the time in
which the sinful acts was committed by a single person. A eternal hell
is inconsistent with the believe in a loving God. What about Timothy
2:4, or Ezekiel 18:21, I have no desire that the wicked should die, so
choose life.
Jesus showed his attitude about men in Luke 7:36-50, especially verse
47, that he could forgive this "sinful" woman. Will he have CHANGED NOW
after he returned to heaven?
"Ananias917" <_-_Ananias917_-_@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:8q0qq1hmpk5mlaun62j8qm43419akm9lc0@4ax.com...
On Fri, 23 Dec 2005 19:27:05 -0600, "Daniel & Annette
Halligan" <Penguin@cybrzn.com> spake thusly:
(Matthew 24:48) But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My
lord delayeth his coming;
(2 Peter 3:4) And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since
the
fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning
of
the creation.
You futurists claim that people mocking about Jesus'
return, is proof that we are the generation that is in
the last days.
Peter wrote that to a first century audience. Why?
Because they were experiencing the mocking.
Do you really think Peter wrote that, mailed it to them
and said, "But don't open it for 2,000 years."?
If they were experiencing the mocking in the first
century, then they, BY YOUR OWN LOGIC, were
the ones in the last days.
So you have just proved for me, that the last days
were back then, in the first century.
But does the Bible agree with that? Does it agree
with the idea that the people in the first century
were the ones in the last days?
Why yes, it does....
Hebrews 1:1-2
1) God who at sundry times and in divers manners
spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2) Hath IN THESE LAST DAYS spoken unto us by
his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things,
by whom also he made the worlds
To open the Bible and quote things from it, as if they
wee\re just written yesterday, just for you and to use
them as if they had no relevance to the people they
were actually written to, is one of the most dishonest
things you can do with your Bible!
--
"And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house;
and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the
Lord, even Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way
as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest
receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost."
- Acts 9:17
Would a loving God send people to Hell?
http://godandscience.org/apologetics/hell.html
Werner Kurator
__
===========================================================
"Like all translations of the Bible, made as they are by
imperfect man, this one falls short of it goal. Yet we are
grateful to God for the extend to which he has enabled us to
realize these goals and for the strength he has given us and our
colleagues to complete our task"
Preface to the "New International Version" of the Bible
August 1983......
==============================================================
"In fact, many professing agnostics are nearer belief in
the true God then are many conventional church-goers who
believe in a bogey that does not exist whom they miscall God."
Leslie D. Weatherhead; Preface to his "The Christian Agnostic"
__
There is NOTHING so silly that nobody could possibly believe it. NOTHING.
A perusal of Usenet should suffice to demonstrate this.
--"Keith F. Lynch" in rec.arts.sf.written
.
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