| Topic: |
Religions > Bible |
| User: |
"Pastor Frank" |
| Date: |
24 Sep 2004 04:45:57 AM |
| Object: |
Re: Should We Blame Islam? |
"Roy Jose Lorr" <mosestorah@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:414E42B1.55E75DFA@worldnet.att.net...
Your problem, pal, is that you can't refute my original assertion that
the prime directive 'Eat/Control' is behind all human behavior. You
have no answer, scientific, philosophic, religious, or otherwise, so
you resort to sophistry and insult... and in my book: that is a waste
of my time if not yours. When you're ready to respond to my
assertion in a conceptually relevant manner give me a jingle.
You are just stating the obvious by your "prime directive" that we have
to control our environment in order to eat. But this can take many forms,
such as I win you lose, or we both lose, or we both win. On occasion it
makes sense to sacrifice and go you win and I lose. The latter is often seen
in families right up to organized societies where individuals sacrifice
themselves for the greater good of their children or their society at war.
It's the latter that Christ demonstrates. You haven't even started to
address the problem in a "conceptually relevant manner" but wait for someone
else to do it. LOL
Pastor Frank
THE ROYAL LAW OF CHRIST
**Jesus in Mk 12:30: And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy
heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy
strength: this is the first commandment.
**31: And the second is alike, namely this: Thou shalt love thy neighbour
as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.
**Jesus in Mat 22:40 "All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two
commandments."
THE GOLDEN RULE OF CHRIST
Jesus in Matt. 7:12: "Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men
should do to you, do ye even so to them...."
.
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| User: "Bob Weigel" |
|
| Title: Re: Should We Blame Islam? |
24 Sep 2004 01:24:55 PM |
|
|
I'll respond to your assertion Roy. All humans are born with
1) unprogrammed minds which need to learn
2) a spirit which is undeveloped but which rapidly starts making decisions
that interact with 1) and 3). People can argue this but philosophically, I
will drive them to a point of admitting that either nothing we do matters
(futility) or this is indeed the case. Many have gone this road with me.
Many have jumped out of the door and broken all their bones because they
couldn't stand the ride :-)
3) various sensory facilities and phisiological interfaces that interface
the mind to the outside world, and the spirit as well.
At a very young age I began to sense God's spirit interacting and
trying to form a relationship with me. In my rebellion I pushed him away.
I recall one such specific instance with great detail from when I was two
years old. I lost an eye in the incident and all the things I remembered
years later were correlated with the other witnesses precisely. I also
remembered with equal clarity that I chose to go my own way and ignore the
voice of God's spirit trying to tell me not to do something that was purely
motivated by MY DESIRE TO EXALT MYSELF.
So I believe that we all have that kind of interaction because God
designed us all with an amazing amount of depth to enter into relationship
with him spiritually. If others rationalize away similar interactions
they've had and forget them....it's not my problem. Nobody can base their
lives on my experiences. However...if people aren't SO driven by the flesh
that they avoid the whole aspect...they can have their own experiences I
know.
Anyway, as long as I would have walked in 'the flesh' yes 'prime
directive' would be as you say pretty much. However God really started to
work as I humbled myself before him in the aftermath of that event. And I
began to literally do things that I knew would NOT make me richer, NOT make
me more 'in control' in this world, NOT make me more popular (but rather get
me alienated pretty much..) etc. etc. My life is a living testimony that
your statement is not quite accurate. For most people, it's absolutely
accurate. But if you studied my life...you'd find your theories just don't
fit. Many others through history can say the same. You can choose to call
us 'flukes' and just throw out the data....or deal with the reality of why
we are who we are. -Bob
"Pastor Frank" <PF@christfirst.com> wrote in message
news:MET4d.819$hI2.83@fe51.usenetserver.com...
"Roy Jose Lorr" <mosestorah@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:414E42B1.55E75DFA@worldnet.att.net...
Your problem, pal, is that you can't refute my original assertion that
the prime directive 'Eat/Control' is behind all human behavior. You
have no answer, scientific, philosophic, religious, or otherwise, so
you resort to sophistry and insult... and in my book: that is a waste
of my time if not yours. When you're ready to respond to my
assertion in a conceptually relevant manner give me a jingle.
You are just stating the obvious by your "prime directive" that we
have
to control our environment in order to eat. But this can take many forms,
such as I win you lose, or we both lose, or we both win. On occasion it
makes sense to sacrifice and go you win and I lose. The latter is often
seen
in families right up to organized societies where individuals sacrifice
themselves for the greater good of their children or their society at war.
It's the latter that Christ demonstrates. You haven't even started to
address the problem in a "conceptually relevant manner" but wait for
someone
else to do it. LOL
Pastor Frank
THE ROYAL LAW OF CHRIST
**Jesus in Mk 12:30: And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy
heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy
strength: this is the first commandment.
**31: And the second is alike, namely this: Thou shalt love thy neighbour
as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.
**Jesus in Mat 22:40 "All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two
commandments."
THE GOLDEN RULE OF CHRIST
Jesus in Matt. 7:12: "Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that
men
should do to you, do ye even so to them...."
.
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|
| User: "Roy Jose Lorr" |
|
| Title: Re: Should We Blame Islam? |
27 Sep 2004 02:44:59 AM |
|
|
Bob Weigel wrote:
I'll respond to your assertion Roy. All humans are born with
1) unprogrammed minds which need to learn
Except for the 'need to learn' part of your statement, the rest of your
notion if ever it had any credence, expired some time ago. The
minds of fetuses in the womb are continuously impressed with
information.
2) a spirit which is undeveloped but which rapidly starts making decisions
that interact with 1) and 3). People can argue this but philosophically, I
will drive them to a point of admitting that either nothing we do matters
(futility) or this is indeed the case. Many have gone this road with me.
Many have jumped out of the door and broken all their bones because they
couldn't stand the ride :-)
3) various sensory facilities and phisiological interfaces that interface
the mind to the outside world, and the spirit as well.
Well, I've gotten this far without being able to make sense of
what you're saying. I guess its an early trip to the 'door' for
me... thankfully before you've had me under your spell long
enough to effect my 'bone' structure.
At a very young age I began to sense God's spirit interacting and
trying to form a relationship with me. In my rebellion I pushed him away.
I recall one such specific instance with great detail from when I was two
years old. I lost an eye in the incident and all the things I remembered
years later were correlated with the other witnesses precisely. I also
remembered with equal clarity that I chose to go my own way and ignore the
voice of God's spirit trying to tell me not to do something that was purely
motivated by MY DESIRE TO EXALT MYSELF.
So I believe that we all have that kind of interaction because God
designed us all with an amazing amount of depth to enter into relationship
with him spiritually. If others rationalize away similar interactions
they've had and forget them....it's not my problem. Nobody can base their
lives on my experiences. However...if people aren't SO driven by the flesh
that they avoid the whole aspect...they can have their own experiences I
know.
Anyway, as long as I would have walked in 'the flesh' yes 'prime
directive' would be as you say pretty much. However God really started to
work as I humbled myself before him in the aftermath of that event. And I
began to literally do things that I knew would NOT make me richer, NOT make
me more 'in control' in this world, NOT make me more popular (but rather get
me alienated pretty much..) etc. etc. My life is a living testimony that
your statement is not quite accurate. For most people, it's absolutely
accurate. But if you studied my life...you'd find your theories just don't
fit. Many others through history can say the same. You can choose to call
us 'flukes' and just throw out the data....or deal with the reality of why
we are who we are. -Bob
--
The last stage of
utopian sentimentalism
is homicidal mania.
.
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| User: "twofeathers" |
|
| Title: Re: Should We Blame Islam? |
25 Sep 2004 08:58:12 PM |
|
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i found this a good reply to god bob from some one else, praise allah!
What are you afraid of? Listen to Bush!!! We have been paying Israel $15
million a day to decimate Muslims for over half a century now, confiscating
large chunks of Arab land, putting millions of them into refugee and prison
camps, and except for 9/11 they have done nothing like that on OUR
territory. So we are way ahead of them. The kill ratio must be better than
1000 to one in our favour. So we are winning aren't we? Who cares about the
Quran and what it says?
Pastor Frank
RULES OF WAR:
10.AFTER CONQUERING A CITY, IF YOU FIND A DECENT LOOKING WOMAN UNDER ONE OF
THOSE BEE KEEPER OUTFITS, MAKE HER YOUR SLAVE.
"And when the Lord thy God hath delivered [a city] into thine hands, thou
shalt smite every male thereof with the edge of the sword: But the women,
and the little ones, and the cattle, and all that is in the city, even all
the spoil thereof, shalt thou take unto thyself" (Deuteronomy 20:13-14).
"And they warred against the Midianites, as the LORD commanded Moses; and
they slew all the males. . . . And the children of Israel took all the
women of Midian captives, and their little ones, and took the spoil of all
their cattle, and all their flocks, and all their goods" (Numbers 31:7-9).
9.THOUGH INCONVENIENT, WHEN KILLING THE PEOPLE, BE SURE TO NOT TO HURT
THEIR TREES ('CAUSE THAT WOULD BE WASTEFUL).
"When thou shalt besiege a city a long time, in making war against it to
take it, thou shalt not destroy the trees thereof by forcing an axe against
them: for thou mayeth eat of them, and thou shalt not cut them down (for
the tree of the field is man's life) to employ them in the siege"
(Deuteronomy 20:19).
8.DON'T STOP WITH KILLING THEIR SOLDIERS. RUB IT IN. DIP YOUR FEET IN
THEIR BLOOD AND LET YOUR DOGS DRINK IT.
"But God shall wound the head of his enemies, and the hairy scalp of such
an one as goeth on still in his trespasses. The Lord said, I will bring
again from Bashan, I will bring my people again from the depths of the sea:
That thy foot may be dipped in the blood of thine enemies, and the tongue
of thy dogs in the same" (Psalms 68:21-23).
7.DON'T ANONYMOUSLY KILL BIN LADEN AND OMAR IN A BOMBING RAID. AFTER
KILLING THEIR FOLLOWERS, PUBLICLY HANG THEM FOR ALL TO SEE.
"For Joshua drew not his hand back, wherewith he stretched out the spear,
until he had utterly destroyed all the inhabitants of Ai. . . . And Joshua
burnt Ai, and made it an heap for ever, even a desolation unto this day.
And the king of Ai he hanged on a tree until eventide" (Joshua 8:26-29).
6.GIVE THEM A TASTE OF THEIR OWN MEDICINE. CUT OFF THEIR HANDS AND FEET
BEFORE HANGING THEM.
"And David commanded his young men, and they slew them, and cut off their
hands and their feet, and hanged them up over the pool in Hebron" (2 Samuel
4:12).
5.NEVER NEGOTIATE WITH THE ENEMY. KILL THEM, SHOWING NO MERCY AT ALL.
"And when the Lord thy God shall deliver them before thee; thou shalt smite
them, and utterly destroy them; thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor
shew mercy unto them" (Deuteronomy 7:2).
4.DON'T BE A SISSY. HAVE NO COMPASSION FOR THESE NON-BELIEVERS. KILL THEM
WHILE THEY'RE PRAYING IN CHURCH. KILL YOUNG AND OLD ALIKE, AND EVEN THOSE
TOO FEEBLE TO DEFEND THEMSELVES.
"But they mocked the messengers of God, and despised his words, and misused
his prophets, until the wrath of the Lord arose against his people, till
there was no remedy. Therefore he brought upon them the king of the
Chaldees, who slew their young men with the sword in the house of their
sanctuary, and had no compassion upon young man or maiden, old man, or him
that stooped for age: he gave them all into his hand" (2 Chronicles 36:16-
17).
3.DON'T JUST KILL THE HEATHENS. STEAL THEIR PROPERTY AND GIVE IT TO
CHELMSFORD CHRISTIAN CENTRE.
"And they burnt the city with fire, and all that was therein: only the
silver, and the gold, and the vessels of brass and of iron, they put into
the treasury of the house of the Lord"(Joshua 6:24).
2.DON'T WASTE MONEY ON P.O.W. CAMPS. THROW YOUR CAPTIVES OFF A CLIFF.
"And Amaziah said to the man of God, But what shall we do for the hundred
talents which I have given to the army of Israel? And the man of God
answered, The Lord is able to give thee much more than this. . . . And
Amaziah strengthened himself . . . and smote the children of Seir ten
thousand. And other ten thousand left alive did the children of Judah
carry away captive, and brought them unto the top of the rock, and cast
them down from the top of the rock, that they all were broken in pieces" (2
Chronicles 25:9-12).
1.JUST REMEMBER THIS SIMPLE RULE: KILL EVERYTHING THAT BREATHES AND DESTROY
EVERYTHING IN SIGHT.
"But of the cities of these people, which the Lord thy God doth give thee
for an inheritance, thou shalt save alive nothing that breatheth"
(Deuteronomy 20:16).
"Thou shalt surely smite the inhabitants of that city [of nonbelievers]
with the edge of the sword, destroying it utterly, and all that is therein,
and the cattle thereof, with the edge of the sword" (1 Samuel 13:15).
"And that day Joshua took Makkedah, and smote it with the edge of the
sword, and the king thereof he utterly destroyed, them, and all the souls
that were therein; he let none remain: and he did to the king of Makkedah
as he did unto the king of Jerico. Then Joshua passed from Makkedah, and
all Israel with him, unto Libnah, and fought against Libnah: And the Lord
delivered it also, and the king thereof, into the hand of Israel: and he
smote it with the edge of the sword, and all the souls that were therein;
he let none remain in it" (Joshua 10:29-30).
Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare
them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep,
camel and *****" (1 Samuel 15:3).
--
Broomleigh Baptist Church
"All the Bible, all the time"
http://church.broomleigh.org
"Bob Weigel" <dontuwish@nothing.net> wrote in message news:<10l8pttiqm92q3f@corp.supernews.com>...
I'll respond to your assertion Roy. All humans are born with
1) unprogrammed minds which need to learn
2) a spirit which is undeveloped but which rapidly starts making decisions
that interact with 1) and 3). People can argue this but philosophically, I
will drive them to a point of admitting that either nothing we do matters
(futility) or this is indeed the case. Many have gone this road with me.
Many have jumped out of the door and broken all their bones because they
couldn't stand the ride :-)
3) various sensory facilities and phisiological interfaces that interface
the mind to the outside world, and the spirit as well.
At a very young age I began to sense God's spirit interacting and
trying to form a relationship with me. In my rebellion I pushed him away.
I recall one such specific instance with great detail from when I was two
years old. I lost an eye in the incident and all the things I remembered
years later were correlated with the other witnesses precisely. I also
remembered with equal clarity that I chose to go my own way and ignore the
voice of God's spirit trying to tell me not to do something that was purely
motivated by MY DESIRE TO EXALT MYSELF.
So I believe that we all have that kind of interaction because God
designed us all with an amazing amount of depth to enter into relationship
with him spiritually. If others rationalize away similar interactions
they've had and forget them....it's not my problem. Nobody can base their
lives on my experiences. However...if people aren't SO driven by the flesh
that they avoid the whole aspect...they can have their own experiences I
know.
Anyway, as long as I would have walked in 'the flesh' yes 'prime
directive' would be as you say pretty much. However God really started to
work as I humbled myself before him in the aftermath of that event. And I
began to literally do things that I knew would NOT make me richer, NOT make
me more 'in control' in this world, NOT make me more popular (but rather get
me alienated pretty much..) etc. etc. My life is a living testimony that
your statement is not quite accurate. For most people, it's absolutely
accurate. But if you studied my life...you'd find your theories just don't
fit. Many others through history can say the same. You can choose to call
us 'flukes' and just throw out the data....or deal with the reality of why
we are who we are. -Bob
"Pastor Frank" <PF@christfirst.com> wrote in message
news:MET4d.819$hI2.83@fe51.usenetserver.com...
"Roy Jose Lorr" <mosestorah@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:414E42B1.55E75DFA@worldnet.att.net...
Your problem, pal, is that you can't refute my original assertion that
the prime directive 'Eat/Control' is behind all human behavior. You
have no answer, scientific, philosophic, religious, or otherwise, so
you resort to sophistry and insult... and in my book: that is a waste
of my time if not yours. When you're ready to respond to my
assertion in a conceptually relevant manner give me a jingle.
You are just stating the obvious by your "prime directive" that we
have
to control our environment in order to eat. But this can take many forms,
such as I win you lose, or we both lose, or we both win. On occasion it
makes sense to sacrifice and go you win and I lose. The latter is often
seen
in families right up to organized societies where individuals sacrifice
themselves for the greater good of their children or their society at war.
It's the latter that Christ demonstrates. You haven't even started to
address the problem in a "conceptually relevant manner" but wait for
someone
else to do it. LOL
Pastor Frank
THE ROYAL LAW OF CHRIST
**Jesus in Mk 12:30: And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy
heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy
strength: this is the first commandment.
**31: And the second is alike, namely this: Thou shalt love thy neighbour
as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.
**Jesus in Mat 22:40 "All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two
commandments."
THE GOLDEN RULE OF CHRIST
Jesus in Matt. 7:12: "Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that
men
should do to you, do ye even so to them...."
.
|
|
|
| User: "Roy Jose Lorr" |
|
| Title: Re: Should We Blame Islam? |
27 Sep 2004 01:26:07 AM |
|
|
twofeathers wrote:
Who cares about the
Quran and what it says?
Any sane non muslim who wishes to know his mortal enemy
should pay close attention to what the Quran says:
Quran:
[4.56] (As for) those who disbelieve in Our communications, We shall
make them enter fire; so oft as their skins are thoroughly burned, We
will change them for other skins, that they may taste the chastisement;
surely Allah is Mighty, Wise."
[22:19-22] But as for those who disbelieve, garments of fire
will be cut out for them, boiling fluid will be poured down their
heads. Whereby that which is in their bellies, and their skins too,
will be melted; And for them are hooked rods of iron. Whenever, in
their anguish, they would go forth from thence they are driven back
therein and (it is said unto them): Taste the doom of burning.
[8.12] When your Lord revealed to the angels: I am with you, therefore
make firm those who believe. I will cast terror into the hearts of those
who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every
fingertip of them.
[58:5] Those who resist Allah and His Messenger will be crumbled
to dust, as were those before them: for we have already sent down
Clear Signs and the Unbelievers will have a humiliating Penalty
Sahih Muslim
Book 019, Number 4366:
It has been narrated by 'Umar b. al-Khattib that he heard the Messenger
of Allah (may peace be upon him) say: I will expel the Jews and
Christians from the Arabian Peninsula and will not leave any but Muslim.
Sahih Muslim
The Book of Faith (Kitab Al-Iman)
Book 001, Number 0033:
It has been narrated on the authority of Abdullah b. 'Umar that the
Messenger of Allah said: I have been commanded to fight against people
till they testify that there is no god but Allah, that Muhammad is the
messenger of Allah, and they establish prayer, and pay Zakat and if they
do it, their blood and property are guaranteed protection on my behalf
except when justified by law, and their affairs rest with Allah.
[9.29] Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day,
nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Apostle have prohibited, nor
follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book,
until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in
a state of subjection.
[9.123] O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near
to you and let them find in you hardness; and know that Allah is with
those who guard (against evil).
[4.74] Therefore let those fight in the way of Allah, who sell this
world's life for the hereafter; and whoever fights in the way of Allah,
then be he slain or be he victorious, We shall grant him a mighty
reward.
[9:5] But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the
Pagans wherever ye find them, an seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in
wait for them in every stratagem
Quran:
[5.51] O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for
friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes
them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not
guide the unjust people.
Terrorism is a logical outcome of putting the Qur'an into practice.
The Qur'an promotes permanent struggle against non-Muslims - or at
least until non-Muslims are converted to Islam, subjected to Islamic
authority, or killed. Below is a listing of relevant verses* in the
Qur'an.
Quran tells Muslims to kill the disbelievers wherever they find
them
(Q. 2:191), to murder them and treat them harshly (Q. 9:123), slay
them (Q. 9: 5), fight with them, (Q. 8: 65 ) even if they are
Christians and Jews, humiliate them and impose on them a penalty
tax(Q. 9: 29).
It orders its followers to fight the unbelievers until no other
religion except Islam is left (Q. 2: 193).
It says that the non-believers will go to hell and will drink
boiling water (Q. 14: 17).
It asks the Muslims to slay or crucify or cut the hands and feet
of the unbelievers, that they be expelled from the land with
disgrace and that they shall have a great punishment in world
hereafter (Q.5: 34).
As for the disbelievers, it says that for them garments of fire
shall be cut and there shall be poured over their heads boiling
water whereby whatever is in their bowels and skin shall be
dissolved and they will be punished with hooked iron rods
(Q. 22: 9).
Quran takes away the freedom of belief from all humanity and tells
clearly that no other religion except Islam is accepted (Q.3: 85).
It relegates those who disbelieve in Quran to hell (Q. 5:11),
calls them najis (filthy, untouchable, impure) (Q. 9: 28).
Quran prohibits a Muslim to befriend a non-believer even if that
non-believer is the father or the brother of that Muslim
(Q. 9: 23), (Q. 3: 28).
Quran asks the Muslims to strive against the unbelievers with
great endeavor (Q. 25: 52), be stern with them because they
belong to hell (Q. 66: 9).
The holy Prophet demanded his follower to strike off the heads of
the disbelievers then after making a wide slaughter among them,
carefully tie up the remaining captives (Q. 47: 4).
As for women the book of Allah says that they are inferior to men
and their husbands have the right to scourge them if they are
found disobedient (Q. 4:34).
It teaches that women will go to hell if they are disobedient to
their husbands (Q. 66:10).
It maintains that men have an advantage over the women (Q. 2:228).
It not only denies the women's equal right to their inheritance
(Q. 4:11-12), it also regards them as imbeciles and decrees that
their witness is not admissible in the court (Q. 2:282).
This means that a woman who is raped cannot accuse her rapist unless
she can produce a male witness. Muhammad allowed the Muslims to marry
up to four wives and gave them license to sleep with their slave
maids and as many captive women as they may have (Q. 4:3).
He himself did just that. This is why anytime a Muslim army subdues
another nation, they call them kafir and allow themselves to rape
their women.
Pakistani soldiers raped up to 250,000 Bangali women in 1971 after
they massacred 3,000,000 unarmed civilians when their religious
leader decreed that Bangladeshis are unislamic. This is why the
prison guards in Islamic regime of Iran rape the women and then
kill them after calling them apostates and the enemies of Allah.
Islam promises hell to non-Muslims 3:85, 4:56, 5:37, 5:72, 8:55,
9:28,15:2, 21:98-100, 22:19-22, 22:56-57, 25:17-19, 25:55, 29:53-55
31:13, 6:9, 68:10-13, 72:14- 15,
Islam warns against mixing with non-Muslims 2:21, 3:28, 3:118,
5:51, 5:144, 9:7, 9:28, 58:23, 60:4.
Islam calls on Muslims to wage war against non-Muslims 2:191,
2:193,4:66, 4:84, 5:33, 8:12, 8:15-18, 8:39, 8:59-60,8:65, 9:2-3,
9:5, 9:14,9:29, 9:39, 9:73, 9:111, 9:123, 25:52, 37:22-23, 47:4-5,
48:29,69:30-37.
Islam encourages the war against the non-Muslims by glorifying it
2:216, 9:41, 49:15, or by promising lust in paradise to the
Shaheeds who die in such a war 3:142, 3:157-158, 9:20--21.
One of the most important theme in the Qur'an, perhaps an
indication of the preoccupation in Muhammad's mind is that of
imagery of hell and the punishment for the unbelievers.
This is indicated by the huge
number of Qur'anic references: al-Baqarah 2:24,119,161,166,201;
Al-Imran 3:10,12,116,131,151,162,192; an-Nisa'
4:55-56,93,97,114,121,169; al-Ma'idah 5:10,37,72,86; al-An`am
6:27,70,128-129, al-A`raf 7:18,36,38,41,50,179; al-Anfal 8:16,36,50;
at-Taubah 9:17,35,49,63,68,73,81,95,109,113; Yunus 10:8,27,
Hud 11:16-17,98,106,113,119; ar-Ra`d 13:5,18,35; Ibrahim 14:16,49;
al-Hijr 15:43; an-Nahl 16:29,62; bani Isra'il 17:8,18,39,63,97;
al-Kahf 18:29,53,100,106; Maryam 19:68,70,86; Ta Ha 20:74,
al-Anbiya' 21:39,98; al-Hajj 22:4,9,19-22,51,72; al-Mu'minun
23:103-104; an-Nur 24:57; al-Furqan 25:11-13,34,65; ash-Shu`ara'
26:91,94; an-Naml 27:90; al-Qasas 28:41; al-`Ankabut 29:25,54,68,
Luqman 31:21; as-Sajdah 32:13,20; al-Ahzab 33:64,66; Saba' 34:12,42;
al-Fatir 35:6,36; Ya Sin 36:63; as-Saffat 37:10,23,55,63,68,163; Sad
38:27,56, Sad 38:59,61,64,85; az-Zumar 39:8,16,19,32,60,71-72;
al-Mu'min 40:6-7,41,43,46-47,49,60,72,76,
Ha Mim Sajdah 41:19,24,28,40; ash-Shura 42:7; az-Zukhruf 43:74;
ad-Dukhan 44:47,56; al-Jathiyah 45:10,34-35; al-Ahqaf 46:20,34;
Muhammad 47:12,15; al-Fath 48:6,13,
Qaf 50:24; adh-Dhariyat 51:13; at-Tur 52:13-16,18; al-Qamar 54:48;
ar-Rahman 55:43; al-Waqi`ah 56:94; al-Hadid 57:15,19; al-Mujadilah
58:8,17; al-Hashr 59:3,17,20, ,
as-Saff 61:41; at-Taghabun 64:10; at-Tahrim 66:6,9-10; al-Mulk
67:5-10; al-Haqqah 69:31; al-Ma`arij 70:15,
Nuh 71:25; al-Jinn 72:15,23; al-Muzammil 73:12-13; al-Mudathir
74:26-31,42; ad-Dahr 76:4; al-Mursalat 77:31; an-Naba' 78:21;
an-Nazi`at 79:36,39,
at-Takwir 81:12; al-Infitar 82:14; at-Tatfif 83:16; al-Inshiqaq 84:12;
al-Buruj 85:10; al-A`la 87:12; al-Ghashiyah 88:4; al-Fajr 89:23;
al-Balad 90:20,
al-Layl 92:14; al-Bayyinah 98:6; al-Qari`ah 101:9-11; at-Takathur
102:6; al-Humazah 104:6-9; al-Lahab 111:3
99.9% of humans will be in hell. Sahih Bukhari 004.055.567
--
The last stage of
utopian sentimentalism
is homicidal mania.
.
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| User: "twofeathers" |
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| Title: Re: Should We Blame Islam? |
25 Sep 2004 12:09:12 PM |
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praise allah and god bob, snicker
bob weigelhead wrote at
"Bob Weigel" <dontuwish@nothing.net> wrote in message news:<10l8pttiqm92q3f@corp.supernews.com>...
I'll respond to your assertion Roy. All humans are born with
1) unprogrammed minds which need to learn
2) a spirit which is undeveloped but which rapidly starts making decisions
that interact with 1) and 3). People can argue this but philosophically, I
will drive them to a point of admitting that either nothing we do matters
(futility) or this is indeed the case. Many have gone this road with me.
Many have jumped out of the door and broken all their bones because they
couldn't stand the ride :-)
3) various sensory facilities and phisiological interfaces that interface
the mind to the outside world, and the spirit as well.
At a very young age I began to sense God's spirit interacting and
trying to form a relationship with me. In my rebellion I pushed him away.
I recall one such specific instance with great detail from when I was two
years old. I lost an eye in the incident and all the things I remembered
years later were correlated with the other witnesses precisely. I also
remembered with equal clarity that I chose to go my own way and ignore the
voice of God's spirit trying to tell me not to do something that was purely
motivated by MY DESIRE TO EXALT MYSELF.
So I believe that we all have that kind of interaction because God
designed us all with an amazing amount of depth to enter into relationship
with him spiritually. If others rationalize away similar interactions
they've had and forget them....it's not my problem. Nobody can base their
lives on my experiences. However...if people aren't SO driven by the flesh
that they avoid the whole aspect...they can have their own experiences I
know.
Anyway, as long as I would have walked in 'the flesh' yes 'prime
directive' would be as you say pretty much. However God really started to
work as I humbled myself before him in the aftermath of that event. And I
began to literally do things that I knew would NOT make me richer, NOT make
me more 'in control' in this world, NOT make me more popular (but rather get
me alienated pretty much..) etc. etc. My life is a living testimony that
your statement is not quite accurate. For most people, it's absolutely
accurate. But if you studied my life...you'd find your theories just don't
fit. Many others through history can say the same. You can choose to call
us 'flukes' and just throw out the data....or deal with the reality of why
we are who we are. -Bob
"Pastor Frank" <PF@christfirst.com> wrote in message
news:MET4d.819$hI2.83@fe51.usenetserver.com...
"Roy Jose Lorr" <mosestorah@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:414E42B1.55E75DFA@worldnet.att.net...
Your problem, pal, is that you can't refute my original assertion that
the prime directive 'Eat/Control' is behind all human behavior. You
have no answer, scientific, philosophic, religious, or otherwise, so
you resort to sophistry and insult... and in my book: that is a waste
of my time if not yours. When you're ready to respond to my
assertion in a conceptually relevant manner give me a jingle.
You are just stating the obvious by your "prime directive" that we
have
to control our environment in order to eat. But this can take many forms,
such as I win you lose, or we both lose, or we both win. On occasion it
makes sense to sacrifice and go you win and I lose. The latter is often
seen
in families right up to organized societies where individuals sacrifice
themselves for the greater good of their children or their society at war.
It's the latter that Christ demonstrates. You haven't even started to
address the problem in a "conceptually relevant manner" but wait for
someone
else to do it. LOL
Pastor Frank
THE ROYAL LAW OF CHRIST
**Jesus in Mk 12:30: And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy
heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy
strength: this is the first commandment.
**31: And the second is alike, namely this: Thou shalt love thy neighbour
as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.
**Jesus in Mat 22:40 "All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two
commandments."
THE GOLDEN RULE OF CHRIST
Jesus in Matt. 7:12: "Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that
men
should do to you, do ye even so to them...."
.
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| User: "Roy Jose Lorr" |
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| Title: Re: Should We Blame Islam? |
27 Sep 2004 02:13:03 AM |
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Pastor Frank wrote:
"Roy Jose Lorr" <mosestorah@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:414E42B1.55E75DFA@worldnet.att.net...
Your problem, pal, is that you can't refute my original assertion that
the prime directive 'Eat/Control' is behind all human behavior. You
have no answer, scientific, philosophic, religious, or otherwise, so
you resort to sophistry and insult... and in my book: that is a waste
of my time if not yours. When you're ready to respond to my
assertion in a conceptually relevant manner give me a jingle.
You are just stating the obvious by your "prime directive" that we have
to control our environment in order to eat. But this can take many forms,
such as I win you lose, or we both lose, or we both win. On occasion it
makes sense to sacrifice and go you win and I lose. The latter is often seen
in families right up to organized societies where individuals sacrifice
themselves for the greater good of their children or their society at war.
It's the latter that Christ demonstrates. You haven't even started to
address the problem in a "conceptually relevant manner" but wait for someone
else to do it. LOL
Self sacrifice is merely one manifestation of the Eat/Control directive.
Save the pop psychology for someone who takes you seriously.
Pastor Frank
THE ROYAL LAW OF CHRIST
**Jesus in Mk 12:30: And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy
heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy
strength: this is the first commandment.
An utter impossibility unless these two Commands are taken together.
De 6:5 And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thy heart, and with all
thy soul, and with all thy might.
De 11:1 Therefore thou shalt love the LORD thy God, and keep His charge,
and His statutes, and His ordinances, and His commandments, always.
**31: And the second is alike, namely this: Thou shalt love thy neighbour
as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.
The commandment is in regard to one's brothers in the People Israel There
are other rules covering the treatment of strangers.:
Le 19:18 Thou shalt not take vengeance, nor bear any grudge
against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy
neighbor as thyself: I am the LORD.
**Jesus in Mat 22:40 "All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two
commandments."
A bold misrepresentation of the Sinaitic Covenant.
THE GOLDEN RULE OF CHRIST
Jesus in Matt. 7:12: "Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men
should do to you, do ye even so to them...."
Therefore, should I desire men treat me with unnatural sexual acts, then
shall I do even so to them. More bad advice contrary to the Five
Books of Moses.
--
The last stage of
utopian sentimentalism
is homicidal mania.
.
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| User: "Pastor Frank" |
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| Title: Re: Should We Blame Islam? |
27 Sep 2004 11:25:05 AM |
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"Roy Jose Lorr" <mosestorah@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:4157BE27.752027F9@worldnet.att.net...
Pastor Frank wrote:
"Roy Jose Lorr" <mosestorah@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:414E42B1.55E75DFA@worldnet.att.net...
Your problem, pal, is that you can't refute my original assertion that
the prime directive 'Eat/Control' is behind all human behavior. You
have no answer, scientific, philosophic, religious, or otherwise, so
you resort to sophistry and insult... and in my book: that is a waste
of my time if not yours. When you're ready to respond to my
assertion in a conceptually relevant manner give me a jingle.
You are just stating the obvious by your "prime directive" that we
have
to control our environment in order to eat. But this can take many
forms,
such as I win you lose, or we both lose, or we both win. On occasion it
makes sense to sacrifice and go you win and I lose. The latter is often
seen
in families right up to organized societies where individuals sacrifice
themselves for the greater good of their children or their society at
war.
It's the latter that Christ demonstrates. You haven't even started to
address the problem in a "conceptually relevant manner" but wait for
someone
else to do it. LOL
Self sacrifice is merely one manifestation of the Eat/Control directive.
Is this supposed to be a convincing argument? LOL You are still into
pontification without a single reference, other than your self-exalted
opinions.
Save the pop psychology for someone who takes you seriously.
That advice is something you should heed, for up to now you have failed
to field any argument, let alone a reasoned and convincing one.
Pastor Frank
Gen 3:22-23 And the Lord God said: Behold, the man is become as one of us,
to know good from evil. And now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also
from the tree of life, and eat and live for ever, I will drive out the man
from the garden of Eden, to till the land from which he was taken.
.
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| User: "Roy Jose Lorr" |
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| Title: Re: Should We Blame Islam? |
27 Sep 2004 08:17:07 PM |
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Pastor Frank wrote:
"Roy Jose Lorr" <mosestorah@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:4157BE27.752027F9@worldnet.att.net...
Pastor Frank wrote:
"Roy Jose Lorr" <mosestorah@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:414E42B1.55E75DFA@worldnet.att.net...
Your problem, pal, is that you can't refute my original assertion that
the prime directive 'Eat/Control' is behind all human behavior. You
have no answer, scientific, philosophic, religious, or otherwise, so
you resort to sophistry and insult... and in my book: that is a waste
of my time if not yours. When you're ready to respond to my
assertion in a conceptually relevant manner give me a jingle.
You are just stating the obvious by your "prime directive" that we
have
to control our environment in order to eat. But this can take many
forms,
such as I win you lose, or we both lose, or we both win. On occasion it
makes sense to sacrifice and go you win and I lose. The latter is often
seen
in families right up to organized societies where individuals sacrifice
themselves for the greater good of their children or their society at
war.
It's the latter that Christ demonstrates. You haven't even started to
address the problem in a "conceptually relevant manner" but wait for
someone
else to do it. LOL
Self sacrifice is merely one manifestation of the Eat/Control directive.
Is this supposed to be a convincing argument? LOL You are still into
pontification without a single reference, other than your self-exalted
opinions.
Then you admit to being totally ignorant of the findings in the behavioral
sciences and the sciences that investigate the nature of language. If you
want me to tutor you in these disciplines you'll have to come up with the
fee. I don't do student's homework gratis.
Save the pop psychology for someone who takes you seriously.
That advice is something you should heed, for up to now you have failed
to field any argument, let alone a reasoned and convincing one.
Facts as they stand do not require argument to support them. Do the
homework or remain ignorant... makes no difference to me.
Pastor Frank
Gen 3:22-23 And the Lord God said: Behold, the man is become as one of us,
to know good from evil. And now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also
from the tree of life, and eat and live for ever, I will drive out the man
from the garden of Eden, to till the land from which he was taken.
This is supposed to mean something in the context of our little exchange?
Or do you offer it merely as a gratuity, a mouth fart, so to speak?
--
The last stage of
utopian sentimentalism
is homicidal mania.
.
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