| Topic: |
Religions > Bible |
| User: |
"Glenn \Christian Mystic" |
| Date: |
16 Nov 2004 03:56:48 PM |
| Object: |
Re: Son of Man = Son of God |
Amen !!!
"The Apostle" <nobler@accesswave.ca> wrote in message
news:W3tmd.179580$9b.50757@edtnps84...
"K.C." wrote in message
When Jesus called Himself Son of Man, He was calling Himself the Son of
God. The following passage shows that...
"Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when
the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear
shall live. For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to
the Son to have life in himself; And hath given him authority to
execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man." - John 5:25-27
So, you see...the "son of man" character is a Old Testament prophetic
figure of the Messiah. The Jews of the day would understand that.
What Jesus was doing by this passage was helping them understand that
the "son of man" was also the "son of God." By Mary's conception of
the Holy Spirit, this prophetic figure was fulfilled.
Jesus once walked the earth as a man.
K.C. You might be interested in noting, that no where does Matthew, Mark
or
Luke make this connection that you make above, using John.
If you go to Bible Gateway, you will find that if you use Jesus' own
words,
in Matthew he calls himself the Son of man, twenty times, and never says
he
is the Son of God. Mark is the same, 11-0 for Son of man.
Luke is even more lopsided, with Jesus calling himself the Son of man 24
times, and never using the title son of God.
Now John does have Jesus using the term Son of God, four times, but 10
times
for Son of man.
In total, in the gospels Jesus calls himself the Son of man 65 times, to 4
for Son of God, and the Son of God is all in John.
So you have three gospel writers who don't have Jesus using that term for
himself.
Now if you follow along on Bible Gateway, you will find that the prophet
Ezekiel is called son of man an amazing 88 times.
Was Jesus in fact, telling us he was a prophet like Ezekiel.
How about this verse. God's own words, from Numbers 23: 19 -
God is not a man, that he should lie, neither the son of man, that he
should
repent.
Oooooop, it appears that God himself, says that god is not son of man.
How could Jesus, who constantly calls himself the Son of man, be a God??
In Luke 22: 69, Jesus says he is the Son of man. in Verse 70, they ask him
if he is the Son of God, and Jesus replies, Ye, say that I am.
Notice, Jesus refuses to say that he is!!
Why is that??
Maybe he knew he was a prophet like Ezekiel!!
Just a possibility.
.
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| User: "K.C." |
|
| Title: Re: Son of Man = Son of God |
17 Nov 2004 09:59:52 AM |
|
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FYI...
Jesus as God
A. Old Testament Scriptures
1. "As for our redeemer, the LORD of hosts is his name, the Holy One of
Israel." Isaiah 47:4
2. "And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness..."
Gen 1:26
3. "Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: the sceptre of thy kingdom
is a right sceptre. Thou lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness:
therefore God, thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness
above thy fellows." Psalms 45:6-7
4. "The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make
thine enemies thy footstool." Psalms 110:1
5. "To me belongeth vengeance, and recompence; their foot shall slide
in due time: for the day of their calamity is at hand, and the things
that shall come upon them make haste. For the LORD shall judge his
people, and repent himself for his servants, when he seeth that their
power is gone, and there is none shut up, or left." Deuteronomy
32:35-36
6. "Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin
shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel....For
unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government
shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful,
Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of
Peace." Isaiah 7:14, 9:6
7. "..and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced.." Zech 12:10
8. "Behold, I have graven thee upon the palms of my hands; thy walls
are continually before me." Isaiah 49:16
9. "But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the
thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is
to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from
everlasting." Micah 5:2
10. "Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret
from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the
Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me. Thus saith the LORD, thy
Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; I am the LORD thy God which teacheth
thee to profit, which leadeth thee by the way that thou shouldest go."
Isaiah 48:16-17
B. What He said...
1. He Made Himself the way to salvation - John 3:16; 10:9; 14:6
2. He Said He would return with His angels - Mt 13:41; 16:27; 25:31
3. He claimed all power in heaven and earth were given to Him - Mt
28:18
4. He called Himself the Bread of Life (not that His message was the
bread) - John 6:35,48
5. He claimed He, Himself, would, with the Father, enter the hearts of
believers - John 14:23
6. He said He was the image of the Father - John 14:9, 11
7. He claimed the ability to command angels - Mt 26:53
8. He said He existed before Abraham (John 8:56-58) and had seen Satan
fall from heaven (Lu 10:18).
9. He claimed authority to judge man - John 5:26-30
10. He called Himself the Good Shepherd - John 10:11-15
C. What He did...
1. Himself Raised from the dead.
2. Raised others from the dead.
3. Cast out demons.
4. Healed the sick.
5. Walked on water.
6. Calmed the storms.
7. Gave power to others to heal and cast out demons in His name.
8. Multiplied food to feed His followers.
9. Predicted the future.
10. Talked to Moses and Elijah while on earth.
What it means...
1. Salvation is only through Christ (John 3:16)
2. True Judaism accepts and worships Christ, the lamb of God.
3. His promises are the promises of God.
4. God's own heart is seen in Christ's heart.
5. God, Himself, suffered and died for our sins.
Glenn (Christian Mystic) wrote:
Amen !!!
"The Apostle" <nobler@accesswave.ca> wrote in message
news:W3tmd.179580$9b.50757@edtnps84...
"K.C." wrote in message
When Jesus called Himself Son of Man, He was calling Himself the
Son of
God. The following passage shows that...
"Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is,
when
the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that
hear
shall live. For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he
given to
the Son to have life in himself; And hath given him authority to
execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man." - John
5:25-27
So, you see...the "son of man" character is a Old Testament
prophetic
figure of the Messiah. The Jews of the day would understand that.
What Jesus was doing by this passage was helping them understand
that
the "son of man" was also the "son of God." By Mary's conception
of
the Holy Spirit, this prophetic figure was fulfilled.
Jesus once walked the earth as a man.
K.C. You might be interested in noting, that no where does Matthew,
Mark
or
Luke make this connection that you make above, using John.
If you go to Bible Gateway, you will find that if you use Jesus'
own
words,
in Matthew he calls himself the Son of man, twenty times, and never
says
he
is the Son of God. Mark is the same, 11-0 for Son of man.
Luke is even more lopsided, with Jesus calling himself the Son of
man 24
times, and never using the title son of God.
Now John does have Jesus using the term Son of God, four times, but
10
times
for Son of man.
In total, in the gospels Jesus calls himself the Son of man 65
times, to 4
for Son of God, and the Son of God is all in John.
So you have three gospel writers who don't have Jesus using that
term for
himself.
Now if you follow along on Bible Gateway, you will find that the
prophet
Ezekiel is called son of man an amazing 88 times.
Was Jesus in fact, telling us he was a prophet like Ezekiel.
How about this verse. God's own words, from Numbers 23: 19 -
God is not a man, that he should lie, neither the son of man, that
he
should
repent.
Oooooop, it appears that God himself, says that god is not son of
man.
How could Jesus, who constantly calls himself the Son of man, be a
God??
In Luke 22: 69, Jesus says he is the Son of man. in Verse 70, they
ask him
if he is the Son of God, and Jesus replies, Ye, say that I am.
Notice, Jesus refuses to say that he is!!
Why is that??
Maybe he knew he was a prophet like Ezekiel!!
Just a possibility.
K.C.
http://providential-plan.com/providence.html
.
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| User: "Libertarius" |
|
| Title: Re: Son of Man = Son of God- ATHEIST |
17 Nov 2004 11:22:18 AM |
|
|
"K.C." wrote:
FYI...
Jesus as God
A. Old Testament Scriptures
1. "As for our redeemer, the LORD of hosts is his name, the Holy One of
Israel." Isaiah 47:4
===>You think THAT refers to Jesus?
Ridiculous!
The word LORD stands for YHWH!
In Isaiah 45:5 that YHWH says:
"I am the LORD , and there is no other;
apart from me there is no God."
So, if that LORD was Jesus, he was an ATHEIST!
Of course it is contradicted by your next quote, which shows there is
more than one!
2. "And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness..."
Gen 1:26
It really says "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness...
male and female..."
So, at least ONE of the beings doing the creating had to be a
FEMALE DEITY!
You have been brainwashed into the myth that the fellow
from Galilee, the Zealot leader Yeshua ("Jesus") was/is "God". -- L.
.
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| User: "K.C." |
|
| Title: Re: Son of Man = Son of God- ATHEIST |
17 Nov 2004 11:41:40 AM |
|
|
Thank you for the chance to respond to you on all of your groups...
See below..
Libertarius wrote:
"K.C." wrote:
FYI...
Jesus as God
A. Old Testament Scriptures
1. "As for our redeemer, the LORD of hosts is his name, the Holy
One of
Israel." Isaiah 47:4
===>You think THAT refers to Jesus?
Ridiculous!
The word LORD stands for YHWH!
In Isaiah 45:5 that YHWH says:
"I am the LORD , and there is no other;
apart from me there is no God."
So, if that LORD was Jesus, he was an ATHEIST!
Of course it is contradicted by your next quote, which shows there is
more than one!
Exactly my point. If God is one, and He is redeemer, ONLY God can be
the one that pays for our debts to free us (defining redeemer).
2. "And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our
likeness..."
Gen 1:26
It really says "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness...
male and female..."
So, at least ONE of the beings doing the creating had to be a
FEMALE DEITY!
You have been brainwashed into the myth that the fellow
from Galilee, the Zealot leader Yeshua ("Jesus") was/is "God". -- L.
Since one of the Trinity is a man, Jesus, Adam was, in fact, in His
image.
OH, and for the benefit of those on your new threads..here is the rest
of my points which you removed....
FYI...
Jesus as God
A. Old Testament Scriptures
1. "As for our redeemer, the LORD of hosts is his name, the Holy One of
Israel." Isaiah 47:4
2. "And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness..."
Gen 1:26
3. "Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: the sceptre of thy kingdom
is a right sceptre. Thou lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness:
therefore God, thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness
above thy fellows." Psalms 45:6-7
4. "The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make
thine enemies thy footstool." Psalms 110:1
5. "To me belongeth vengeance, and recompence; their foot shall slide
in due time: for the day of their calamity is at hand, and the things
that shall come upon them make haste. For the LORD shall judge his
people, and repent himself for his servants, when he seeth that their
power is gone, and there is none shut up, or left." Deuteronomy
32:35-36
6. "Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin
shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel....For
unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government
shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful,
Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of
Peace." Isaiah 7:14, 9:6
7. "..and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced.." Zech 12:10
8. "Behold, I have graven thee upon the palms of my hands; thy walls
are continually before me." Isaiah 49:16
9. "But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the
thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is
to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from
everlasting." Micah 5:2
10. "Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret
from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the
Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me. Thus saith the LORD, thy
Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; I am the LORD thy God which teacheth
thee to profit, which leadeth thee by the way that thou shouldest go."
Isaiah 48:16-17
B. What He said...
1. He Made Himself the way to salvation - John 3:16; 10:9; 14:6
2. He Said He would return with His angels - Mt 13:41; 16:27; 25:31
3. He claimed all power in heaven and earth were given to Him - Mt
28:18
4. He called Himself the Bread of Life (not that His message was the
bread) - John 6:35,48
5. He claimed He, Himself, would, with the Father, enter the hearts of
believers - John 14:23
6. He said He was the image of the Father - John 14:9, 11
7. He claimed the ability to command angels - Mt 26:53
8. He said He existed before Abraham (John 8:56-58) and had seen Satan
fall from heaven (Lu 10:18).
9. He claimed authority to judge man - John 5:26-30
10. He called Himself the Good Shepherd - John 10:11-15
C. What He did...
1. Himself Raised from the dead.
2. Raised others from the dead.
3. Cast out demons.
4. Healed the sick.
5. Walked on water.
6. Calmed the storms.
7. Gave power to others to heal and cast out demons in His name.
8. Multiplied food to feed His followers.
9. Predicted the future.
10. Talked to Moses and Elijah while on earth.
What it means...
1. Salvation is only through Christ (John 3:16)
2. True Judaism accepts and worships Christ, the lamb of God.
3. His promises are the promises of God.
4. God's own heart is seen in Christ's heart.
5. God, Himself, suffered and died for our sins.
.
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| User: "Libertarius" |
|
| Title: Re: Son of Man = Son of God- ATHEIST |
17 Nov 2004 05:28:53 PM |
|
|
"K.C." wrote:
Thank you for the chance to respond to you on all of your groups...
See below..
Libertarius wrote:
"K.C." wrote:
FYI...
Jesus as God
A. Old Testament Scriptures
1. "As for our redeemer, the LORD of hosts is his name, the Holy
One of
Israel." Isaiah 47:4
===>You think THAT refers to Jesus?
Ridiculous!
The word LORD stands for YHWH!
In Isaiah 45:5 that YHWH says:
"I am the LORD , and there is no other;
apart from me there is no God."
So, if that LORD was Jesus, he was an ATHEIST!
Of course it is contradicted by your next quote, which shows there is
more than one!
Exactly my point.
===>WHAT point?
The verse states three is only ONE PERSON who qualifies
to be "God".
If that person is the guy from Galilee and there is no other deity,
then there in reality is NO GOD!
If God is one, and He is redeemer, ONLY God can be
the one that pays for our debts to free us (defining redeemer)
2. "And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our
likeness..."
Gen 1:26
It really says "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness...
male and female..."
So, at least ONE of the beings doing the creating had to be a
FEMALE DEITY!
You have been brainwashed into the myth that the fellow
from Galilee, the Zealot leader Yeshua ("Jesus") was/is "God". -- L.
Since one of the Trinity is a man, Jesus,
===>What "Trinity"?
The reference is only to a male and a female deity.
That does not qualify for any "trinity).
Adam was, in fact, in His
image.
===>And Eve in HERS.
.
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