| Topic: |
Religions > Bible |
| User: |
"James" |
| Date: |
25 Dec 2007 11:55:37 AM |
| Object: |
Re: Sound Doctrine |
pip threlfall <pip_threlfall@yahoo.co.uk>
Re: Sound Doctrine
For the past year I have been attending a Pentecostal bible study at a local church.
Recently I have become aware of a difference between the Pastor s
understanding of basic doctrine and my own. I found your site and
would value your opinion regarding our respective views.
We both agree that Jesus Christ is divine. However he believes
Almighty God left heaven and was born as baby Jesus. During his time
on earth the Holy Spirit was in charge of heaven, and then after
Jesus rose from the dead he returned to heaven and sent the Holy
Spirit to be with us on earth.
I believe Almighty God (the Father) sent his Son into the world who
was born as baby Jesus, died and rose from the dead, and ascended
into heaven, and now the Holy Spirit is on earth as a result of our
relationship with our heavenly Father which we have through The Lord
Jesus.
It seems the basic difference in our theology is, I see Jesus as The
Son of God, and the Pastor sees Jesus as Almighty God.
I should value your observations.
Yours
Pip
Pip,
The Pastor needs to read his Bible. Let's see a few things that God's
word says about Jesus.
It never calls him 'Father', nor 'Almighty God' etc. Rather, the Bible
consistently tells us he was the "son" of God, not God. For example Lu
1:31b,
"So the holy one to be born will be called the Son of God." (NIV)
And Joh 10:36,
"what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent
into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said,
`I am God's Son'?" (NIV)
Also, Jesus (before he came to earth) was a CREATED being, thus He
can't be God who has ALWAYS lived.
Jesus created: "He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of
all creation." (NASB)
God always lived: Ps 90:2,
"Before the mountains were born or you brought forth the earth and the
world, from everlasting to everlasting you are God." (NIV)
Thus you are correct in not agreeing with that Pastor, since his
beliefs clearly are not in harmony with God's word, the Holy Bible. (2
Ti 3:16)
Sincerely, James
**If you wish to have a discussion with me, please use email since I
do not follow ng threads
***********************************
Want a Free home Bible study?
Have Jehovah's Witnesses questions?
Go to the authorized source:
http://www.watchtower.org
***********************************
----
<snip>
.
|
|
| User: "Eric417" |
|
| Title: Re: Sound Doctrine |
25 Dec 2007 12:25:22 PM |
|
|
James <bireda@peoplepc.com> wrote:
pip threlfall <pip_threlfall@yahoo.co.uk>
Re: Sound Doctrine
For the past year I have been attending a Pentecostal bible study at a
local church.
Recently I have become aware of a difference between the Pastor s
understanding of basic doctrine and my own. I found your site and would
value your opinion regarding our respective views.
We both agree that Jesus Christ is divine. However he believes Almighty
God left heaven and was born as baby Jesus. During his time on earth
the Holy Spirit was in charge of heaven, and then after Jesus rose from
the dead he returned to heaven and sent the Holy Spirit to be with us
on earth.
I believe Almighty God (the Father) sent his Son into the world who was
born as baby Jesus, died and rose from the dead, and ascended into
heaven, and now the Holy Spirit is on earth as a result of our
relationship with our heavenly Father which we have through The Lord
Jesus.
It seems the basic difference in our theology is, I see Jesus as The
Son of God, and the Pastor sees Jesus as Almighty God.
I should value your observations.
The best explanations of this are found in the three Universal Creeds of
the Christian Church, which are in full agreement with Scripture.
The one to focus on is The Athanasian Creed.
Pip,
The Pastor needs to read his Bible. Let's see a few things that God's
word says about Jesus.
It never calls him 'Father', nor 'Almighty God' etc. Rather, the Bible
consistently tells us he was the "son" of God, not God.
I'm not sure, but you are denying the Christian Doctine found in the
three creeds of the Christian Church.
To summarize,
Jesus is God.
The Holy Spirit is God.
The Father is God.
Jesus is not the Holy Spirit
Jesus is not the Father
The Holy Spirit is not Jesus
The Holy Spirit is not the Father
The Father is not Jesus
The Father is not the Holy Spirit
http://www.lcms.org/pages/internal.asp?NavID=582
--------------------
The Athanasian Creed
--------------------
Written against the Arians.
Whosoever will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold
the catholic faith. Which faith except every one do keep whole and
undefiled, without doubt he shall perish everlastingly.
And the catholic faith is this, that we worship one God in Trinity, and
Trinity in Unity; Neither confounding the Persons, nor dividing the
Substance. For there is one Person of the Father, another of the Son,
and another of the Holy Ghost. But the Godhead of the Father, of the
Son, and of the Holy Ghost is all one: the glory equal, the majesty
coeternal. Such as the Father is, such is the Son, and such is the Holy
Ghost. The Father uncreate, the Son uncreate, and the Holy Ghost
uncreate. The Father incomprehensible, the Son incomprehensible, and the
Holy Ghost incomprehensible. The Father eternal, the Son eternal, and
the Holy Ghost eternal. And yet they are not three Eternals, but one
Eternal. As there are not three Uncreated nor three Incomprehensibles,
but one Uncreated and one Incomprehensible. So likewise the Father is
almighty, the Son almighty, and the Holy Ghost almighty. And yet they
are not three Almighties, but one Almighty. So the Father is God, the
Son is God, and the Holy Ghost is God. And yet they are not three Gods,
but one God. So likewise the Father is Lord, the Son Lord, and the Holy
Ghost Lord. And yet not three Lords, but one Lord. For like as we are
compelled by the Christian verity to acknowledge every Person by Himself
to be God and Lord, So are we forbidden by the catholic religion to say,
There be three Gods, or three Lords.
The Father is made of none: neither created nor begotten. The Son is of
the Father alone; not made, nor created, but begotten. The Holy Ghost is
of the Father and of the Son: neither made, nor created, nor begotten,
but proceeding. So there is one Father, not three Fathers; one Son, not
three Sons; one Holy Ghost, not three Holy Ghosts. And in this Trinity
none is before or after other; none is greater or less than another; But
the whole three Persons are coeternal together, and coequal: so that in
all things, as is aforesaid, the Unity in Trinity and the Trinity in
Unity is to be worshiped. He, therefore, that will be saved must thus
think of the Trinity.
Furthermore, it is necessary to everlasting salvation that he also
believe faithfully the incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ. For the
right faith is, that we believe and confess that our Lord Jesus Christ,
the Son of God, is God and Man; God of the Substance of the Father,
begotten before the worlds; and Man of the substance of His mother, born
in the world; Perfect God and perfect Man, of a reasonable soul and
human flesh subsisting. Equal to the Father as touching His Godhead, and
inferior to the Father as touching His manhood; Who, although He be God
and Man, yet He is not two, but one Christ: One, not by conversion of
the Godhead into flesh, but by taking the manhood into God; One
altogether; not by confusion of Substance, but by unity of Person. For
as the reasonable soul and flesh is one man, so God and Man is one
Christ; Who suffered for our salvation; descended into hell, rose again
the third day from the dead; He ascended into heaven; He sitteth on the
right hand of the Father, God Almighty; from whence He shall come to
judge the quick and the dead. At whose coming all men shall rise again
with their bodies, and shall give an account of their own works. And
they that have done good shall go into life everlasting; and they that
have done evil, into everlasting fire.
This is the catholic faith; which except a man believe faithfully and
firmly, he cannot be saved.
* catholic means "universal" and is not a reference to the Roman
Catholic Church.
----------------
The Nicene Creed
----------------
I believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth,
and of all things visible and invisible.
And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, begotten of
the Father before all worlds, God of God, Light of Light, very God of
very God, begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father; by
whom all things were made; who for us men, and for our salvation, came
down from heaven, and was incarnate by the Holy Ghost of the Virgin
Mary, and was made man, and was crucified also for us under Pontius
Pilate; He suffered and was buried; and the third day He rose again
according to the Scriptures; and ascended into heaven, and sitteth on
the right hand of the Father; and He shall come again with glory to
judge the quick and the dead; whose kingdom shall have no end.
And I believe in the Holy Ghost, the Lord and Giver of life, who
proceedeth from the Father and the Son; who with the Father and the Son
together is worshiped and glorified; who spake by the Prophets. And I
believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church.I acknowledge one
Baptism for the remission of sins; and I look for the resurrection of
the dead, and the life of the world to come. Amen.
-------------------
The Apostles' Creed
-------------------
I believe in God the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth.
And in Jesus Christ, His only Son, our Lord; who was conceived by the
Holy Ghost, born of the Virgin Mary; suffered under Pontius Pilate, was
crucified, dead, and buried; He descended into hell; the third day He
rose again from the dead; He ascended into heaven, and sitteth on the
right hand of God the Father Almighty; from thence He shall come to
judge the quick and the dead.
I believe in the Holy Ghost; the holy catholic* Church, the communion of
saints; the forgiveness of sins; the resurrection of the body; and the
life everlasting. Amen.
.
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