| Topic: |
Religions > Bible |
| User: |
"Glenn \Christian Mystic" |
| Date: |
22 Nov 2003 07:05:25 PM |
| Object: |
Re: Tang versus the Noble Truths |
"Not that I speak in respect of want: for I have learned, in whatsoever
state that I am, therewith, to be content. I know both how to abound:
everywhere in all things I am instructed both to be full and to be hungry,
both to abound and to suffer need. I can do all things through Christ which
strengthens me" Paul, in Philippians 4:11-13
Glenn (Christian Mystic)
"andy" <andy.braxton@bbc.co.uk> wrote in message
news:6b0bdc8d.0310220527.81d676b@posting.google.com...
"Pansy Bassingthwaighte" <anonymous@anonymous.com> wrote in message
news:<vpbtntb7hknrb3@corp.supernews.com>...
Judy Stein <jstein@panix.com> wrote in message
news:19b3c03e.0310211017.23f8aef5@posting.google.com...
"Pansy Bassingthwaighte" <anonymous@anonymous.com> wrote in message
news:<vpahvk72oa1g34@corp.supernews.com>...
Tang Huyen <tang_huyen@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:3F951B2D.C526935D@yahoo.com...
What creates suffering is desire,
and what desire does is to attempt to bend the world to
fit its wishes, intellective, affective and otherwise.
When one abandons desire, one no longer attempts to fit
what happens into one's pigeon holes and simply takes it
in the raw, just the way it is. That absence of
resistance induces peace and happiness.
Tang Huyen
One cannot both 'abandon desire' and also 'simply take it (what
happens)
in
the raw, just the way it is'. These two instructions contradict each
other.
But these are not two instructions. The first (abandon desire)
is an instruction, the second (takes it in the raw) is said to
be the result of following the instruction.
To try to abandon desire is to try to change the way things are. Are we
to
imagine that accepting the way things are will result from trying to
change
the way things are?
By saying 'when one abandons desire' you have fallen into
the very trap you are advocating we avoid, viz. not accepting
what happens in the raw.
If one takes the instruction "abandon desire" as something to be
accomplished by means of intention, you're correct.
But what if there is a means of abandoning desire that does not
involve exercising intention?
If you desire to abandon desire you are already defeated. All means
involve
exercise of intention otherwise they wouldn't be called means; TM is no
different in this regard. You intentionally use it as means to get rid
of
unhappiness. All people desire to be rid of suffering and be happy.
There is
no way out of that. What's worth noting is that for as long as human
beings
have existed as a race, we haven't figured out the secret of happiness.
Why?
Pansy
There is egoic-drive behind desire, and a sense of "I want more in the
future" -a need to fulfill the fantasies of the ego, and an unrest
with the present. Perhaps there is something more subtle that exists
before desire arises...could desire be the egoic labelling / awareness
of a more subtle sense of unwholeness - of being out of touch with the
present moment, and in denial of our true nature? I hope so!
Andy
.
|
|
| User: "Chan Fu" |
|
| Title: Re: Tang versus the Noble Truths |
22 Nov 2003 07:12:27 PM |
|
|
"Glenn (Christian Mystic)" wrote:
"Not that I speak in respect of want: for I have learned, in whatsoever
state that I am, therewith, to be content. I know both how to abound:
everywhere in all things I am instructed both to be full and to be hungry,
both to abound and to suffer need. I can do all things through Christ which
strengthens me" Paul, in Philippians 4:11-13
make up your mind
.
|
|
|
| User: "Glenn \Christian Mystic" |
|
| Title: Re: Tang versus the Noble Truths |
23 Nov 2003 09:14:38 AM |
|
|
"Ch'an Fu" <chan_fu@removeyoursandals.metta.lk> wrote in message
news:3FC0097B.9F9105C9@removeyoursandals.metta.lk...
"Glenn (Christian Mystic)" wrote:
"Not that I speak in respect of want: for I have learned, in whatsoever
state that I am, therewith, to be content. I know both how to abound:
everywhere in all things I am instructed both to be full and to be
hungry,
both to abound and to suffer need. I can do all things through Christ
which
strengthens me" Paul, in Philippians 4:11-13
make up your mind
Huh ?
.
|
|
|
| User: "Pema" |
|
| Title: Re: Tang versus the Noble Truths |
23 Nov 2003 11:51:23 AM |
|
|
"Glenn \(Christian Mystic\)" <christianmystic@ev1.net> wrote in message news:<vs1jn3odsek8c1@corp.supernews.com>...
"Ch'an Fu" <chan_fu@removeyoursandals.metta.lk> wrote in message
news:3FC0097B.9F9105C9@removeyoursandals.metta.lk...
"Glenn (Christian Mystic)" wrote:
"Not that I speak in respect of want: for I have learned, in whatsoever
state that I am, therewith, to be content. I know both how to abound:
everywhere in all things I am instructed both to be full and to be
hungry,
both to abound and to suffer need. I can do all things through Christ
which
strengthens me" Paul, in Philippians 4:11-13
make up your mind
Huh ?
i understand what you are saying. there is strenght in not subjecting
yoursrelf to "this is crappy, this is wonderful". in all things happy
or sad, you have strenght. that's nice. so do we, so your preaching to
the choir. though we do have different ways. please do not troll us
here. we just got rid of the last savior, and are happy with a little
peace and quiet...
go and be happy :)
pema
.
|
|
|
| User: "Glenn \Christian Mystic" |
|
| Title: Re: Tang versus the Noble Truths |
25 Nov 2003 02:15:16 PM |
|
|
So agreeing with someone is "trolling" ?
Please tell me who I was trying to catch
You must be new here, I am not new here, nor am I a troll
"Pema" <RadioFreeOB@aol.com> wrote in message
news:7cc3084b.0311230951.3d4ccd0a@posting.google.com...
"Glenn \(Christian Mystic\)" <christianmystic@ev1.net> wrote in message
news:<vs1jn3odsek8c1@corp.supernews.com>...
"Ch'an Fu" <chan_fu@removeyoursandals.metta.lk> wrote in message
news:3FC0097B.9F9105C9@removeyoursandals.metta.lk...
"Glenn (Christian Mystic)" wrote:
"Not that I speak in respect of want: for I have learned, in
whatsoever
state that I am, therewith, to be content. I know both how to
abound:
everywhere in all things I am instructed both to be full and to be
hungry,
both to abound and to suffer need. I can do all things through
Christ
which
strengthens me" Paul, in Philippians 4:11-13
make up your mind
Huh ?
i understand what you are saying. there is strenght in not subjecting
yoursrelf to "this is crappy, this is wonderful". in all things happy
or sad, you have strenght. that's nice. so do we, so your preaching to
the choir. though we do have different ways. please do not troll us
here. we just got rid of the last savior, and are happy with a little
peace and quiet...
go and be happy :)
pema
.
|
|
|
| User: "Chan Fu" |
|
| Title: Re: Tang versus the Noble Truths |
25 Nov 2003 02:23:42 PM |
|
|
"Glenn (Christian Mystic)" wrote:
So agreeing with someone is "trolling" ?
Please tell me who I was trying to catch
You must be new here, I am not new here, nor am I a troll
Don't bother about it, Glenn.
The message was crossposted to
alt.zen, talk.religion.buddhism and alt.religion.buddhism.tibetan
As a matter of fact, Paul's lesson is found in both Stoicism
and Buddhism as well as many other places. That's where
the "make up your mind" joke came from.
be
well
"Pema" <RadioFreeOB@aol.com> wrote in message
news:7cc3084b.0311230951.3d4ccd0a@posting.google.com...
"Glenn \(Christian Mystic\)" <christianmystic@ev1.net> wrote in message
news:<vs1jn3odsek8c1@corp.supernews.com>...
"Ch'an Fu" <chan_fu@removeyoursandals.metta.lk> wrote in message
news:3FC0097B.9F9105C9@removeyoursandals.metta.lk...
"Glenn (Christian Mystic)" wrote:
"Not that I speak in respect of want: for I have learned, in
whatsoever
state that I am, therewith, to be content. I know both how to
abound:
everywhere in all things I am instructed both to be full and to be
hungry,
both to abound and to suffer need. I can do all things through
Christ
which
strengthens me" Paul, in Philippians 4:11-13
make up your mind
Huh ?
i understand what you are saying. there is strenght in not subjecting
yoursrelf to "this is crappy, this is wonderful". in all things happy
or sad, you have strenght. that's nice. so do we, so your preaching to
the choir. though we do have different ways. please do not troll us
here. we just got rid of the last savior, and are happy with a little
peace and quiet...
go and be happy :)
pema
.
|
|
|
| User: "Glenn \Christian Mystic" |
|
| Title: Re: Tang versus the Noble Truths |
25 Nov 2003 05:23:24 PM |
|
|
Thank you
"Ch'an Fu" <chanfu@removeyoursandals.metta.lk> wrote in message
news:3e92a6389b8f60c0d391ce5148b0d3fb@news.teranews.com...
"Glenn (Christian Mystic)" wrote:
So agreeing with someone is "trolling" ?
Please tell me who I was trying to catch
You must be new here, I am not new here, nor am I a troll
Don't bother about it, Glenn.
The message was crossposted to
alt.zen, talk.religion.buddhism and alt.religion.buddhism.tibetan
As a matter of fact, Paul's lesson is found in both Stoicism
and Buddhism as well as many other places. That's where
the "make up your mind" joke came from.
be
well
"Pema" <RadioFreeOB@aol.com> wrote in message
news:7cc3084b.0311230951.3d4ccd0a@posting.google.com...
"Glenn \(Christian Mystic\)" <christianmystic@ev1.net> wrote in
message
news:<vs1jn3odsek8c1@corp.supernews.com>...
"Ch'an Fu" <chan_fu@removeyoursandals.metta.lk> wrote in message
news:3FC0097B.9F9105C9@removeyoursandals.metta.lk...
"Glenn (Christian Mystic)" wrote:
"Not that I speak in respect of want: for I have learned, in
whatsoever
state that I am, therewith, to be content. I know both how to
abound:
everywhere in all things I am instructed both to be full and to
be
hungry,
both to abound and to suffer need. I can do all things through
Christ
which
strengthens me" Paul, in Philippians 4:11-13
make up your mind
Huh ?
i understand what you are saying. there is strenght in not subjecting
yoursrelf to "this is crappy, this is wonderful". in all things happy
or sad, you have strenght. that's nice. so do we, so your preaching to
the choir. though we do have different ways. please do not troll us
here. we just got rid of the last savior, and are happy with a little
peace and quiet...
go and be happy :)
pema
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Related Articles |
|
|
