Religions > Bible > Re: Ted Pike - Israel, Our Duty... Our Dilemma, pp 131-135
| Topic: |
Religions > Bible |
| User: |
"Glenn \Christian Mystic" |
| Date: |
18 Aug 2004 07:08:42 PM |
| Object: |
Re: Ted Pike - Israel, Our Duty... Our Dilemma, pp 131-135 |
Pre-WW2 was VERY anti-semitic(anti-Jew), got anything from more enlightened
times ?
"Howard Duck" <hbduck@geusnet.com> wrote in message
news:ldivh0d3gfcv7u35q8gr98e37r5fqsn6pi@4ax.com...
Ted Pike - Israel, Our Duty... Our Dilemma, pp 131-135
Allied Intelligence Reports
During this time intelligence services throughout the free world were
buzzing with reports of Jewish involvement in communism. Since an
impeccable Jewish source, the Encyclopedia Judaica, has largely
convinced us of the importance of Jews to the success of communism,
let us briefly consider a small part of the testimony available from a
variety of high-level sources. I will present each without comment,
but notice how often they describe Bolshevik leadership in much higher
figures than the Encyclopedia Judaica, often to as high as 90 percent.
Report of the American Expeditionary forces to Siberia, March 1, 1919.
Captain Montgomery Schyler, speaking of events following the decline
of the First Provisional Government, says:
"These hopes were frustrated by the gradual gains in power of the more
irresponsible and socialistic elements of the population, guided by
the Jews and other anti-Russian races. A table made in April 1918 by
Robert Wilton, the correspondent of the London Times in Russia, shows
that at that time there were 384 'commissars' including 2 Negros, 13
Russians, 15 Chinamen, 22 Armenians and more than 300 Jews. Of the
latter number, 264 had come to Russia from the United States since the
downfall of the Imperial government."
Captain Schyler then provides a personal reflection:
"It is probably unwise to say this loudly in the United States, but
the Bolshevik movement is and has been since its beginning guided and
controlled by Russian Jews of the greasiest type, who have been in the
United States and there absorbed every one of the worst phases of our
civilization without having the least understanding of what we really
mean by liberty." [9]
The Consul General at Moscow (Summers) to the Secretary of State,
Moscow, May 2, 1918:
"Jews predominant in local Soviet government, antiJewish feeling
growing among population which tends to regard oncoming Germans as
deliverers." [10]
U.S. State Department Report, Foreign Relations, 1918, Russia, Vol.
11, p. 240:
"Fifty percent of Soviet government in each town consists of Jews of
the worst type, many of whom are anarchists." [11]
Scotland Yard Report to the American Secretary of State, July 23,
1919:
"There is now definite evidence that Bolshevism is an international
movement controlled by Jews; communications are passing between the
leaders in America, France, Russia and England, with a view toward
concerted action. Buda Pesth is merely an outpost of the Russian
Soviet government." [12]
Referring to that last statement by Scotland Yard concerning the
communist revolution in Hungary and its leader, the notorious Jew,
Bela Kun, the American investigation into world revolution at this
time, the Lusk Report, says:
"There was no organized opposition to Bela Kun. Like Lenin, he
surrounded himself with commissars, having absolute authority. Of the
thirty-two principal commissars, twenty-five were Jews, which was
about the same proportion as in Russia. The most prominent of these
formed a directorate of five: Bela Kun, Bela Varga, Joseph Pagany,
Sigmund Kunfi, and one other. Other leaders were Alpari and Samuely,
who had charge of the Red Terror, and carried out the torturing and
executing of the bourgeoisie, especially the groups held as hostages,
the so-called counter-revolutionists and peasants." [13]
Extract of Report from the Netherlands Minister at Petrograd on the
6th of September, 1918, forwarded by Sir M. Findlay, at Christiania,
to Mr. Balfour:
"I consider that the immediate suppression of Bolshevism is the
greatest issue now before the world, not even excluding the war that
is still raging, and unless, as above stated, Bolshevism is nipped in
the bud immediately, it is bound to spread in one form or another over
Europe and the whole world, as it is organized and worked by Jews who
have no nationality, and whose one object is to destroy for their own
ends the existing order of things." [14]
Mr. Aleston to Lord Curzon, forwarding Report from Consul at
Ekaterinburg of February 6, 1919:
"From examination of several labourers and peasant witnesses, I have
evidence to the effect that the very smallest percentage of this
district were pro-Bolshevik, majority of labourers sympathizing with
summoning of Constituent Assembly. Witnesses further stated that
Bolshevik leaders did not represent Russian working classes, most of
them being Jews." [15]
The Rev. B.S. Lombard to Lord Curzon, March 23, 1919:
"I have been for ten years in Russia, and have been in Petrograd
through the whole of the revolution ... I had ample opportunity of
studying Bolshevik methods. It originated in German propaganda, and
was, and is being, carried out by international Jews ... All business
became paralysed, shops were closed, Jews became possessors of most of
the business houses, and horrible scenes of starvation became common
in country districts." [16]
The seizure of businesses by Jews after the "Revolution of the People"
is confirmed by the Universal Jewish Encyclopedia:
"Wherever the civil war was fought, the Whites identified the Jews
with Bolsheviks and singled them out for attack ... from the first,
anti-Semitism was severely condemned by the Bolsheviks ... The
recuperative process which was set in with the end of the civil war
was furthered by the New Economic Policy (NEP) adopted in the spring
of 1921 ... By 1924 nearly one-third of all the stores in Moscow were
owned by Jews." [17]
How did a Russian minority of little more than one percent come into
possession of at least one-third of all stores in Moscow? When
communists take over a country all capitalists are murdered or
imprisoned and their businesses are either nationalized or given into
the hands of those whom the regime considers trustworthy. Clearly,
Jews did not purchase such businesses in Russia from the government (a
capitalistic procedure) but obtained them as spoils of conquest - as
repayment for making victory possible.
The Pedlars of Socialism
Let us now turn briefly to Jewish involvement in communism throughout
the world, specifically in America. Have Jews played any part in
American socialist and communist activities? The Jewish Encyclopedia
("Socialism," p. 420):
"The Jewish exodus from Russia drafted to the United States large
numbers of Socialists, mostly college and university students, who
must be reckoned among the pioneers of the socialist parties in
America. Their main field of activity was the ghetto. But the masses
of Jewish workmen and tradesmen who were educated by this propaganda
scattered throughout the country in pursuit of employment or business
opportunities and became the 'pedlars of socialism' among their
shopmates and neighbors."
Quoting from the Judaica ("Communism," p. 804):
"It is estimated that in the 1920's as much as 15 % of the American
Communist Party's membership was Jewish, and the percentage of Jews
among the Party leadership was undoubtedly higher...
"During the Depression, Communist influence was again on the rise and
could claim many sympathizers and 'fellow travelers' among the
American Jewish academic youth and intelligentsia ... The list of
Jews who played a prominent role in the leadership and factional
infighting of the American Communist Party from its inception is a
long one ... Many American Jewish authors and intellectuals, some of
whom later publicly recanted, were active in editing Communist
publications and spreading party propaganda in the 1920's, 1930's and
even later..."
----------
9 "American Expeditionary Forces, Siberia," Military Intelligence
Report of Capt. Montgomery Schuyler, National Archives, March 1, 1919.
Declassified, Sept. 21, 1958, pp. 2, 3.
10 Included in Foreign Relations, 1918, Russia, Vol. 1, U.S. State
Dept., 1931, file No. 861.00/ 1757, p. 518.
11 Ibid., Vol. 2, p. 240.
12 Scotland Yard, "A Monthly Review of the Progress of Revolutionary
Movements Abroad," July 16, 1919. Declassified, U.S. State Dept.,
Jan. 8, 1958, p. 1.
13 "Revolutionary Radicalism, its History Purpose, and Tactics, with
an Exposition and Discussion of the Steps being taken and required to
curb it, being the Report of the Joint Legislative Committee
investigating Seditious Activities, filed April 24,1920, in the Senate
of the State of New York." Quoted in Nesta A. Webster, Secret
Societies and Subversive Movements, London, 1920, p. 386.
14 Webster, p. 385. Concerning the British White Paper on
Communism, which included the report from the Netherlands Minister at
Petrograd, Oudendyke, Nesta Webster appends this footnote: "It is
significant to notice that in the second and abridged edition of the
White Paper issued by the Foreign Office these two most important
passages marked with an asterisk were omitted and the first edition
was said to be unavailable."
The entire text of the Netherlands Minister, however, turns up
among the previously mentioned U.S. State Department report. Foreign
Relations, 1918, Russia, published in 1931.
15 "British White Paper," Webster, p. 386.
16 Ibid.
17 "Communism." p. 674.
.
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| User: "Howard Duck" |
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| Title: Re: Ted Pike - Israel, Our Duty... Our Dilemma, pp 131-135 |
19 Aug 2004 01:01:52 AM |
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On Wed, 18 Aug 2004 19:08:42 -0500, "Glenn \(Christian Mystic\)"
<christianmystic@ev1.net> wrote:
Pre-WW2 was VERY anti-semitic(anti-Jew), got anything from more enlightened
times ?
I will try to explain myself to you in what follows (and hopefully
also Moggin, though I worry about this):
Communism seems like outmoded terminology today. The world has seen
that what once was considered a social-political ideal is nothing but
tyranny, usually under a dictator, and often disguised as a kind of
democracy. We now have transnational corporations, many of which are
larger financially than some countries. These are like nations
without geographic boundaries, and there is no question of democracy
within them - they are vast hierarchical structures with petit tyrants
at every level of management. People benefit from them materially,
therefore their only organized opposition usually amounts to
environmental complaints. But large corporations can bear so much
influence upon governments through corrupted officials that they
collectively become a secret government, while those in high offices
are like marionettes. This is, I suppose, a type of fascism although
the governments don't actually govern them to any real extent - what
laws there are to restrict these corporations can generally be
circumvented.
Please don't ask me to *prove* what I am saying, because either you
have the insight and the common sense to see that these things are
true or you don't. And there is no condescension intended in that
remark - studying these matters for years brings about an awareness -
that's all. I will, from time to time, doubtless copy portions of
authoritative sources that bear upon what I am saying, but they will
only be to pinpoint or elucidate an item or two.
It becomes expedient for world class industry and finance to
coordinate some planning for mutual benefit. Therefore, there are
organizations like the Council on Foreign Relations with select
members from diverse areas of specialization which meet regularly to
try to organize for the future - how to influence education,
government, businesses and finance, etc. Although the meeting and
planning of such groups is not open to the public, much of what is
planned is published in the Foreign Affairs Journal and other such
high level periodicals and books. There is no need to call what these
top people are doing a conspiracy. They are not breaking laws, and
there is only a modicum of secrecy involved. There are now so-called
non-governmental organizations (NGOs) like the CFR that operate on a
national and international level somewhat like global government
bureaucracies inasmuch as some of their decision-making becomes law
through influence or treaties, etc. If they should decide that they
will subsidize certain third-world production at the expense of
Americans and others, then too bad for the small American farmer or
mining company, and so on. If they should decide that population
growth worldwide is presently unsustainable, then they will work to
bring about conditions that will curb population growth - planned
parenthood, war, biochemical experimentation, prevent the uses of
treatments and methods to stop certain diseases, starvation. Make no
mistake about it, some people are committed to the philosophy that the
end justifies the means. If we could fully imagine ourselves in their
place, we might see that we would be and do the same.
No matter if we are Christian, Jew, Moslem or atheist, there are
people in leadership and decision-making positions in our respective
spheres who are led by the global agendas of a high echelon of elite
planners and doers. What is good for us as individuals must give
place to what world managers think is good for the collective (and for
them in particular). Certainly, none of these groups has a monopoly
on anti-social behavior. One has only to look at what were called
robber barons in the 19th and early 20th centuries to see that there
are people of every race and category who will stop at nothing for
money and power. Look also at the Knights Templars, the first
international financiers as we are told - they were largely subdued by
the French King Philip IV with the cooperation of the Roman Pope.
Now we come to a real dilemma. Most of the high powered and shrewd
monopolists are not really bound together by anything more than what
happens to be mutually lucrative. There are certain groups, however,
that have much more to bind them together than that. One such group
is the Roman Catholic Church. Another group is more or less bound
under the brotherhood of Freemasonry. A third group is Judaism. Of
the various groups, there is of course some world class masterminding
and control that benefits all of them. But at another level they are
in competition with one another for supremacy. At the ultimate level,
Jewish leaders have some things working for them that the others do
not have. Jewish leaders have become Masons, and some have even
become Catholics. It is much less likely that the reverse would be
true in either case. Now consider the remarkable scripture in
Deuteronomy chapter 28. This amazing chapter prophesies that Israel
will become lenders to all nations and that they will borrow from
none. It is conditioned upon obedience to God's law, and it is
followed by the most devastating curses should they fail to obey.
Whatever failures natural Israel after the flesh may be guilty of,
there can be no question that the prophecy is fulfilled. As I have
said before, it appears to me that the conclusion of Jesus' parable of
the unjust steward, wherein He states (my paraphrase): since you have
chosen not to obey God by receiving your Messiah, but have chosen to
serve the unrighteous mammon of riches, then make to yourselves
friends of the unrighteous so that they will receive you - This is
exactly what the highest levels of Jews have done. In many nations
they have undertaken to support financially and with shrewd counsel
the kings and rulers. In Russia it seems they did not, but that was
driven by a different motivation.
The Islamics believe that America is under Jewish influence: in the
government, in the media, and many other areas. By no means do I
justify the Islamics, yet in this regard I believe they are correct.
Many will disagree. Fine. But I believe the Jews are indeed destined
to become the dominant force of those seeking world dominion. Only
for a season, though, because God is not mocked. In the end, natural
Israel must reap the curses of her sins, for the time of Jacob's
trouble (Jeremiah 30:7) is coming. The remnant of those remaining
when the dust settles, will have come to recognize her Messiah for who
He truly is, and when they call upon the Name of the Lord, all Israel
shall be saved.
My hope for all Jews, is that they will not wait until it is too late
to receive Jesus Christ as Lord. Toward this end, I would try to help
open the eyes of those who do not yet see that Judaism is led by some
very wicked and diabolically shrewd people.
--
Howard
.
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| User: "Glenn \Christian Mystic" |
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| Title: Re: Ted Pike - Israel, Our Duty... Our Dilemma, pp 131-135 |
19 Aug 2004 05:38:02 PM |
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"Howard Duck" <hbduck@geusnet.com> wrote in message
news:5dg8i0lkca4kg6ui26hf8m8jau2p7loc4j@4ax.com...
On Wed, 18 Aug 2004 19:08:42 -0500, "Glenn \(Christian Mystic\)"
<christianmystic@ev1.net> wrote:
<snip>
....This is, I suppose, a type of fascism although
the governments don't actually govern them to any real extent - what
laws there are to restrict these corporations can generally be
circumvented.
Please don't ask me to *prove* what I am saying,
Thanks Howard, I knew you were speaking out your *****, I don't see any reason
to read any further.
At least you are more honest than most of the
Fruit-Cake-Tabloid-Conspiracy-theorists, that we can find totally populating
these 'conspiracy' newsgroups (not counting those of us who wonder in for
some entertaining giggles and chuckles)
.
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| User: "Glenn \Christian Mystic" |
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| Title: Re: Ted Pike - Israel, Our Duty... Our Dilemma, pp 131-135 |
19 Aug 2004 05:44:24 PM |
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"Jacob's trouble" BTW is OVER and DONE, see holocaust
"Howard Duck" <hbduck@geusnet.com> wrote in message
news:5dg8i0lkca4kg6ui26hf8m8jau2p7loc4j@4ax.com...
On Wed, 18 Aug 2004 19:08:42 -0500, "Glenn \(Christian Mystic\)"
<christianmystic@ev1.net> wrote:
Pre-WW2 was VERY anti-semitic(anti-Jew), got anything from more
enlightened
times ?
I will try to explain myself to you in what follows (and hopefully
also Moggin, though I worry about this):
Communism seems like outmoded terminology today. The world has seen
that what once was considered a social-political ideal is nothing but
tyranny, usually under a dictator, and often disguised as a kind of
democracy. We now have transnational corporations, many of which are
larger financially than some countries. These are like nations
without geographic boundaries, and there is no question of democracy
within them - they are vast hierarchical structures with petit tyrants
at every level of management. People benefit from them materially,
therefore their only organized opposition usually amounts to
environmental complaints. But large corporations can bear so much
influence upon governments through corrupted officials that they
collectively become a secret government, while those in high offices
are like marionettes. This is, I suppose, a type of fascism although
the governments don't actually govern them to any real extent - what
laws there are to restrict these corporations can generally be
circumvented.
Please don't ask me to *prove* what I am saying, because either you
have the insight and the common sense to see that these things are
true or you don't. And there is no condescension intended in that
remark - studying these matters for years brings about an awareness -
that's all. I will, from time to time, doubtless copy portions of
authoritative sources that bear upon what I am saying, but they will
only be to pinpoint or elucidate an item or two.
It becomes expedient for world class industry and finance to
coordinate some planning for mutual benefit. Therefore, there are
organizations like the Council on Foreign Relations with select
members from diverse areas of specialization which meet regularly to
try to organize for the future - how to influence education,
government, businesses and finance, etc. Although the meeting and
planning of such groups is not open to the public, much of what is
planned is published in the Foreign Affairs Journal and other such
high level periodicals and books. There is no need to call what these
top people are doing a conspiracy. They are not breaking laws, and
there is only a modicum of secrecy involved. There are now so-called
non-governmental organizations (NGOs) like the CFR that operate on a
national and international level somewhat like global government
bureaucracies inasmuch as some of their decision-making becomes law
through influence or treaties, etc. If they should decide that they
will subsidize certain third-world production at the expense of
Americans and others, then too bad for the small American farmer or
mining company, and so on. If they should decide that population
growth worldwide is presently unsustainable, then they will work to
bring about conditions that will curb population growth - planned
parenthood, war, biochemical experimentation, prevent the uses of
treatments and methods to stop certain diseases, starvation. Make no
mistake about it, some people are committed to the philosophy that the
end justifies the means. If we could fully imagine ourselves in their
place, we might see that we would be and do the same.
No matter if we are Christian, Jew, Moslem or atheist, there are
people in leadership and decision-making positions in our respective
spheres who are led by the global agendas of a high echelon of elite
planners and doers. What is good for us as individuals must give
place to what world managers think is good for the collective (and for
them in particular). Certainly, none of these groups has a monopoly
on anti-social behavior. One has only to look at what were called
robber barons in the 19th and early 20th centuries to see that there
are people of every race and category who will stop at nothing for
money and power. Look also at the Knights Templars, the first
international financiers as we are told - they were largely subdued by
the French King Philip IV with the cooperation of the Roman Pope.
Now we come to a real dilemma. Most of the high powered and shrewd
monopolists are not really bound together by anything more than what
happens to be mutually lucrative. There are certain groups, however,
that have much more to bind them together than that. One such group
is the Roman Catholic Church. Another group is more or less bound
under the brotherhood of Freemasonry. A third group is Judaism. Of
the various groups, there is of course some world class masterminding
and control that benefits all of them. But at another level they are
in competition with one another for supremacy. At the ultimate level,
Jewish leaders have some things working for them that the others do
not have. Jewish leaders have become Masons, and some have even
become Catholics. It is much less likely that the reverse would be
true in either case. Now consider the remarkable scripture in
Deuteronomy chapter 28. This amazing chapter prophesies that Israel
will become lenders to all nations and that they will borrow from
none. It is conditioned upon obedience to God's law, and it is
followed by the most devastating curses should they fail to obey.
Whatever failures natural Israel after the flesh may be guilty of,
there can be no question that the prophecy is fulfilled. As I have
said before, it appears to me that the conclusion of Jesus' parable of
the unjust steward, wherein He states (my paraphrase): since you have
chosen not to obey God by receiving your Messiah, but have chosen to
serve the unrighteous mammon of riches, then make to yourselves
friends of the unrighteous so that they will receive you - This is
exactly what the highest levels of Jews have done. In many nations
they have undertaken to support financially and with shrewd counsel
the kings and rulers. In Russia it seems they did not, but that was
driven by a different motivation.
The Islamics believe that America is under Jewish influence: in the
government, in the media, and many other areas. By no means do I
justify the Islamics, yet in this regard I believe they are correct.
Many will disagree. Fine. But I believe the Jews are indeed destined
to become the dominant force of those seeking world dominion. Only
for a season, though, because God is not mocked. In the end, natural
Israel must reap the curses of her sins, for the time of Jacob's
trouble (Jeremiah 30:7) is coming. The remnant of those remaining
when the dust settles, will have come to recognize her Messiah for who
He truly is, and when they call upon the Name of the Lord, all Israel
shall be saved.
My hope for all Jews, is that they will not wait until it is too late
to receive Jesus Christ as Lord. Toward this end, I would try to help
open the eyes of those who do not yet see that Judaism is led by some
very wicked and diabolically shrewd people.
--
Howard
.
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| User: "Kater Moggin" |
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| Title: Re: Ted Pike - Israel, Our Duty... Our Dilemma, pp 131-135 |
19 Aug 2004 08:56:14 PM |
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Howard Duck <hbduck@geusnet.com>:
Communism seems like outmoded terminology today.
Not a bit. "communism. 1 a: theory advocating elimination
of private property b: a system in which goods are owned in
common and are available to all as needed." (M-Webster.)
"communism. A theoretical economic system characterized by the
collective ownership of property and by the organization
of labor for the common advantage of all members." (That's the
American Heritage Dictionary.)
So like I said before, the early Christians were
practicing commies judging by Acts 2, which says that they held
"all things in common" and shared with each other, giving to
anyone in need. Same goes for the Essenes as they're described
in Hippolytus (RH 9.14), who despised riches, followed a
'share the wealth' philosophy, and made sure that everybody had
what they needed.
To repeat, Acts' description of the early Christians makes
sense when you consider that in the Gospels, Jesus throws
curses on the rich, blesses the poor and explains it's unlikely
for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven -- not to
mention that he requires anyone who wants to be his disciple to
give away all they own and insists that it's impossible to
serve both God and mammon (Luke 6:24, Matt. 5:6 and 19:23, Luke
14:33, Matt. 6:24).
Look also at the Knights Templars, the first
international financiers as we are told - they were largely subdued by
the French King Philip IV with the cooperation of the Roman Pope.
I was thinking about checking into the Templars. Lawrence
Durrell's _Avignon Quintet_ made me interested. In his
telling they were stomped on by an alliance of Altar and Throne
because they posed a threat to the powers-that-be. Only
natural you'd class them with Reds, Jews, and other subversives.
Now we come to a real dilemma. Most of the high powered and shrewd
monopolists are not really bound together by anything more than what
happens to be mutually lucrative. There are certain groups, however,
that have much more to bind them together than that. One such group
is the Roman Catholic Church. Another group is more or less bound
under the brotherhood of Freemasonry. A third group is Judaism.
Um, no. Judaism isn't a group: it's a religion. You can
call the Jews a group, but then you run into another big
problem: they're not bound together by a single set of beliefs.
Hell, even Roman Catholics don't form a unity: some ignore
the Pope (e.g. about birth control) and others completely lapse
from the Church.
As I have
said before, it appears to me that the conclusion of Jesus' parable of
the unjust steward, wherein He states (my paraphrase): since you have
chosen not to obey God by receiving your Messiah, but have chosen to
serve the unrighteous mammon of riches, then make to yourselves
friends of the unrighteous so that they will receive you -
A wildly inaccurate paraphrase. Jesus doesn't mention the
messiah in this passage, and he finishes the parable by
stating, "The lord commended the unjust steward, because he had
done wisely" (Luke 16:8). Then he tells the disciples to
behave the same way. Like usual, you're adding a qualification
(in this case "since you have chosen not to obey God")
missing from the scriptures to fit them into your own doctrines.
This is exactly what the highest levels of Jews have done.
That is nonsense twice-over, since you're falsely assuming
both that Jesus is the messiah predicted in the Hebrew
scriptures _and_ that your unnamed "Jewish leaders" believe the
same.
In many nations
they have undertaken to support financially and with shrewd counsel
the kings and rulers.
You call the Jews criminals when you think that they tried
to undermine kings and rulers -- e.g. Louis XVI -- and you
also attack them for supporting the reigning powers. Heads you
win, tails the Jews lose.
The Islamics believe that America is under Jewish influence: in the
government, in the media, and many other areas. By no means do I
justify the Islamics, yet in this regard I believe they are correct.
Well, naturally. You're an anti-Semitic net.kook, and you
believe in all the usual cliches.
Many will disagree. Fine. But I believe the Jews are indeed destined
to become the dominant force of those seeking world dominion. Only
for a season, though, because God is not mocked. In the end, natural
Israel must reap the curses of her sins, for the time of Jacob's
trouble (Jeremiah 30:7) is coming.
Another of your misreadings. In fact you've turned things
upside-down again. In Jeremiah 30, Jacob's troubles have
_already arrived_. Can't you read? Jer. 30:5: "We have heard
a cry of panic, of terror, and no peace." Jer. 30:7: "It is a
time of distress for Jacob." Jeremiah is prophesying the
opposite, a time when things will be far better: "The days are
surely coming, says the LORD, when I will restore the
fortunes of my people, Israel and Judah..." (Jer. 30:3). Jacob
is in distress, "yet he shall be rescued from it," Jeremiah
predicts. I know that isn't what you wanted to hear, but there
it is, regardless.
The remnant of those remaining
A damn big one, the LORD says in Jer. 30:19: "I will make
them many, and they shall not be few."
-- Moggin
.
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| User: "Howard Duck" |
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| Title: Re: Ted Pike - Israel, Our Duty... Our Dilemma, pp 131-135 |
20 Aug 2004 02:10:27 AM |
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On Fri, 20 Aug 2004 01:56:14 GMT, Kater Moggin <kimmerian@fastmail.fm>
wrote:
Howard Duck <hbduck@geusnet.com>:
Communism seems like outmoded terminology today.
Not a bit. "communism. 1 a: theory advocating elimination
of private property b: a system in which goods are owned in
common and are available to all as needed." (M-Webster.)
"communism. A theoretical economic system characterized by the
collective ownership of property and by the organization
of labor for the common advantage of all members." (That's the
American Heritage Dictionary.)
The system of countries that are called Communist today is what I'm
talking about.
As I have
said before, it appears to me that the conclusion of Jesus' parable of
the unjust steward, wherein He states (my paraphrase): since you have
chosen not to obey God by receiving your Messiah, but have chosen to
serve the unrighteous mammon of riches, then make to yourselves
friends of the unrighteous so that they will receive you -
A wildly inaccurate paraphrase. Jesus doesn't mention the
messiah in this passage, and he finishes the parable by
stating, "The lord commended the unjust steward, because he had
done wisely" (Luke 16:8). Then he tells the disciples to
behave the same way. Like usual, you're adding a qualification
(in this case "since you have chosen not to obey God")
missing from the scriptures to fit them into your own doctrines.
"And the lord commended the unjust steward, because he had done
wisely: for the children of this world are in their generation wiser
than the children of light" (Luke 16:8).
Christ's disciples are not the "children of this world." But He told
His disciples to be faithful in all things. And He said we cannot
serve (or make our god) both Mammon and God.
Many will disagree. Fine. But I believe the Jews are indeed destined
to become the dominant force of those seeking world dominion. Only
for a season, though, because God is not mocked. In the end, natural
Israel must reap the curses of her sins, for the time of Jacob's
trouble (Jeremiah 30:7) is coming.
Another of your misreadings. In fact you've turned things
upside-down again. In Jeremiah 30, Jacob's troubles have
_already arrived_. Can't you read? Jer. 30:5: "We have heard
a cry of panic, of terror, and no peace." Jer. 30:7: "It is a
time of distress for Jacob." Jeremiah is prophesying the
opposite, a time when things will be far better: "The days are
surely coming, says the LORD, when I will restore the
fortunes of my people, Israel and Judah..." (Jer. 30:3). Jacob
is in distress, "yet he shall be rescued from it," Jeremiah
predicts. I know that isn't what you wanted to hear, but there
it is, regardless.
Jeremiah 30:
6 Ask ye now, and see whether a man doth travail with child?
wherefore do I see every man with his hands on his loins, as a woman
in travail, and all faces are turned into paleness?
7 Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even
the time of Jacob's trouble; but he shall be saved out of it.
Cf. Matthew 24:
21 For then shall be great tribulation , such as was not since the
beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be
saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
and also,
1 Thessalonians 5:3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then
sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with
child; and they shall not escape.
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| User: "Kater Moggin" |
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| Title: Re: Ted Pike - Israel, Our Duty... Our Dilemma, pp 131-135 |
20 Aug 2004 06:58:06 PM |
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Howard Duck <hbduck@geusnet.com>:
The system of countries that are called Communist today is what I'm
talking about.
I'm talking about the Bible. Early Christians were
practicing commies judging by Acts 2, which says that they held
"all things in common" and shared with each other, giving to
anyone in need. Same goes for the Essenes as they're described
in Hippolytus (RH 9.14): they despised riches, followed a
'share the wealth' philosophy, and made sure that everybody had
what they needed.
To repeat, Acts' description of the early Christians makes
sense when you consider that in the Gospels Jesus throws
curses on the rich, blesses the poor and explains it's unlikely
for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven -- not to
mention that he requires anyone who wants to be his disciple to
give away all they own and insists that it's impossible to
serve both God and mammon (Luke 6:24, Matt. 5:6 and 19:23, Luke
14:33, Matt. 6:24).
Howard:
[Luke 16:1-9]
Christ's disciples are not the "children of this world."
Never said they were. I pointed out that Jesus here tells
the disciples to behave like the steward described in the
parable, who gets commended "because he had done wisely" -- and
while I was at it, I also mentioned that your supposed
paraphase was very inaccurate. Jesus doesn't say anything like
what you attributed to him -- "since you have chosen not to
obey God by receiving your Messiah" -- in the parable that Luke
records.
But He told
His disciples to be faithful in all things. And He said we cannot
serve (or make our god) both Mammon and God.
You're watering down the scriptures again, Howie, like any
dishonest bartender would do. Jesus turns water into wine --
you do the opposite. In Matthew and Luke, Jesus flatly insists
you can't serve both God and mammon. _Not_ merely that you
can't deify both of them, but something far more radical -- and
obviously less acceptable to you: according to him it's
impossible to serve God and serve mammon, too. What's more, he
goes on in Matthew to make it plain working for a living --
sowing, reaping, and gathering, for instance -- is a service to
mammon, not to God.
Jeremiah 30:
7 Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even
the time of Jacob's trouble; but he shall be saved out of it.
The opposite of what you said. Jeremiah is describing the
troubles Israel was already experiencing and predicting a
future when God will save the Israelites, return their fortunes
and have them dancing in the streets.
-- Moggin
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| User: "Francis A. Miniter" |
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| Title: Re: Ted Pike - Israel, Our Duty... Our Dilemma, pp 131-135 |
19 Aug 2004 08:06:04 PM |
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Howard Duck wrote:
<snip>
Please don't ask me to *prove* what I am saying,
That's just the problem, Howard. Many of us believe you
cannot prove these wild allegations. You are conditioned to
believe them because of an inherent bias against Jews that
you carry with you.
because either you
have the insight and the common sense to see that these things are
true or you don't.
Saying is doesn't make it true. How do we know if you are
of the Hananiah variety or the Jeremiah variety?
And there is no condescension intended in that
remark - studying these matters for years brings about an awareness -
that's all. I will, from time to time, doubtless copy portions of
authoritative sources
sources which only you recognize as authoritative because
they conform to this inbred bias of yours.
that bear upon what I am saying, but they will
only be to pinpoint or elucidate an item or two.
<SNIP>Toward this end, I would try to help
open the eyes of those who do not yet see that Judaism is led by some
very wicked and diabolically shrewd people.
Alas, and again, alas.
--
Howard
Francis A. Miniter
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