| Topic: |
Religions > Bible |
| User: |
"Read The Bible" |
| Date: |
13 Jan 2008 10:59:24 PM |
| Object: |
Re: The Dragon and the EU Beast. |
martus said on Jan 13, 1:41 pm:
Revelation 13 ... The Dragon (China) was
established before the EU beast reformed from the
old Roman empire
In Revelation, the dragon isn't China, but Satan:
"The dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil,
and Satan" (Revelation 20:2).
And even though the empire of "the beast" will be a
re-establishment of the old Roman Empire, that empire
included more than Western Europe; it also included
North Africa and the Middle East. So the empire of
"the beast" won't be just the current EU, but a much
larger union involving Turkey and all the Arab states
as well, from Morocco to Dubai, so that the new union
will be something more akin to a "Mediterranean
Union" than just a "European Union". And, if the
treaty forming the new union is signed in Rome, the
union may even come to be called the "Roman Union",
in effect declaring it a reconstituted Roman Empire.
---
But then what are the "ten horns" of this empire of
"the beast"?
"And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a
beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and
ten horns" (Revelation 13:1).
"The ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings"
(Daniel 7:24).
"The ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings,
which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive
power as kings one hour with the beast ... These
shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall
overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of
kings" (Revelation 17:12-14).
This refers to the war at the second coming:
"And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse;
and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and
True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make
war ... And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh
a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS ...
And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and
their armies, gathered together to make war against
him that sat on the horse" (Revelation 19:11,16,19).
So the "ten horns" of the empire of "the beast" are
ten "kings" who will exist at the time of the second
coming.
---
But will they really be "kings" somehow related to
the old Roman Empire?
Yes. When Daniel was told:
"The ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings
that shall arise" (Daniel 7:24).
This kingdom is "the fourth beast" (Daniel 7:23),
the beast/king/empire which succeeded the "leopard"
Greece with its four Diadochian heads:
"A leopard, which had upon the back of it four wings
of a fowl; the beast had also four heads; and
dominion was given to it. After this I saw in the
night visions, and behold a fourth beast"
(Daniel 7:6-7).
So "the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings
that shall arise" (Daniel 7:24) means that the ten
endtime kings will arise as a continuation of the
Roman Empire before Jesus' second coming.
The ten "horns"/kings of this endtime empire could
be the same as the ten "toes" of the statue in
Daniel:
"This image's head was of fine gold, his breast and
his arms of silver, his belly and his thighs of
brass, His legs of iron, his feet part of iron and
part of clay ... The toes of the feet" (Daniel
2:32-33,42).
If the gold, silver, and brass portions of the statue
represent Babylon, Medo-Persia, and Greece, then the
two iron legs would represent Rome, which ultimately
broke into two empires, East and West. The two
partly-iron feet with their ten toes, which could
represent ten endtime kings which will exist at the
time of the second coming, could then represent an
endtime extension of the Roman Empire, but not in
its original wholly-iron strength:
"And as the toes of the feet were part of iron, and
part of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong,
and partly broken. And whereas thou sawest iron mixed
with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the
seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to
another, even as iron is not mixed with clay. And in
the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set
up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed"
(Daniel 2:42-44).
If these ten toes/kings together will be given rule
over the former territory of the Roman Empire, and
five of the toes are iron and five are clay, the
toes of iron could represent five major nations of
Western Europe (for example, Germany, Britain,
-France, Italy, and Spain), while the toes of clay
could represent five major nations of the Middle
East and North Africa (for example, Turkey, Iraq,
Egypt, Syria, and Algeria). The "mingling" but not
"mixing" of "the seed of men", "as iron is not
mixed with clay", could represent, for example,
the many Turks who have moved to Germany but still
remain separated into Turkish ghettoes there, or
the many Algerians who have moved to France but
still remain separated into Algerian ghettoes there.
---
Daniel's visions tell us more about the ten endtime
kings:
"The ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings
that shall arise: and another shall rise after them;
and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall
subdue three kings. And he shall speak great words
against the most High, and shall wear out the saints
of the most High, and think to change times and
laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a
time and times and the dividing of time" (Daniel
7:24-25).
This refers to the rise of the Antichrist onto the
world scene; his subsequent blasphemy, and
persecution of the saints for "a time and times and
the dividing of time", describes the same 3 1/2 year
period as the 42 months in the following passage:
"And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great
things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him
to continue forty and two months. And he opened his
mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his
name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in
heaven. And it was given unto him to make war with
the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given
him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations"
(Revelation 13:5-7).
That the Antichrist "shall subdue three" of the ten
endtime kings but "shall be diverse from" them
(Daniel 7:24), could mean that he could begin his
rise onto the world scene by coming out of a lesser
nation to take over three major nations. For
example, he could be from Lebanon, yet be given
power over a confederation of Syria, Iraq, and Egypt.
This could be a Baathist confederation put together
in the future by an Iraqi Baathist general, who could
also be given control over Syrian forces before
invading and conquering Israel and Egypt:
"So the king of the north shall come, and cast up a
mount, and take the most fenced cities: and the arms
of the south shall not withstand, neither his chosen
people, neither shall there be any strength to
withstand. But he that cometh against him shall do
according to his own will, and none shall stand
before him: and he shall stand in the glorious land,
which by his hand shall be consumed. He shall also
set his face to enter with the strength of his whole
kingdom, and upright ones with him; thus shall he
do: and he shall give him the daughter" (Daniel
11:15-17).
Here "the king of the north" is an endtime ruler of
the area formerly controlled by the Seleucid portion
of the Greek Empire, which included the areas now
called Iraq and Syria; the "chosen people" and
"glorious land" is Israel; and "the south" is the
area formerly controlled by the Ptolemaic portion of
the Greek Empire, which included the area called
Egypt. So the passage could describe a future ruler
of Iraq and Syria conquering Israel and Egypt. Where
it says "he shall give him the daughter", daughter
in Hebrew is "bath", so that the phrase could
symbolize the conqueror establishing Baathist rule
in Egypt.
Although this ruler will subsequently conquer more
nations, he will not last long:
"After this shall he turn his face unto the isles,
and shall take many: but a prince for his own behalf
shall cause the reproach offered by him to cease;
without his own reproach he shall cause it to turn
upon him. Then he shall turn his face toward the
fort of his own land: but he shall stumble and fall,
and not be found.
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Then shall stand up in his estate a raiser of taxes
in the glory of the kingdom: but within few days he
shall be destroyed, neither in anger, nor in battle.
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And in his estate shall stand up a vile person, to
whom they shall not give the honour of the kingdom:
but he shall come in peaceably, and obtain the
kingdom by flatteries" (Daniel 11:18-21).
This "vile person" is the Antichrist; the "kingdom"
that he will obtain at the beginning of his world
career could be that which was put together by the
conqueror which preceded him, which could be a
Baathist confederation of Iraq, Syria, and Egypt.
Ultimately, the Antichrist's empire must come to
include all ten endtime kings (horns), and include
territories of all seven of the empires (heads) which
preceded him, for the Antichrist's empire is what
John sees arising from the sea right before the
3 1/2 year reign of the Antichrist is described:
"And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a
beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and
ten horns ... and all the world wondered after the
beast. And they worshipped the dragon which gave
power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast,
saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to
make war with him? And there was given unto him a
mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and
power was given unto him to continue forty and two
months" (Revelation 13:1,3-5).
Here "the dragon" is Satan, who will give the
Antichrist the empire the symbolic description of
which matches Satan's actual appearance:
"A great red dragon, having seven heads and ten
horns ... called the Devil, and Satan" (Revelation
12:3,9).
So it would be no wonder if Satan himself were
standing on the shore of the sea to make sure his
baby, made in his image, comes to power:
"And the dragon stood on the shore of the sea. And
I saw a beast coming out of the sea. He had ten horns
and seven heads ... The dragon gave the beast his
power and his throne and great authority" (Revelation
13:1-2, NIV).
---
But are the "seven heads" of the empire of "the
beast" really former empires?
"And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a
beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and
ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon
his heads the name of blasphemy. And the beast which
I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as
the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a
lion" (Revelation 13:1-2).
Here the symbols of leopard, bear, and lion were
previously seen by Daniel in his vision of beasts
rising up out of the sea:
"Beasts came up from the sea, diverse one from
another. The first was like a lion ... And behold
another beast, a second, like to a bear ... After
this I beheld, and lo another, like a leopard ...
These great beasts ... are ... kings, which shall
arise out of the earth" (Daniel 7:3-6,17).
Each beast/"king" could represent multiple kings
ruling over an empire. For example, when Daniel
refers to:
"A leopard, which had upon the back of it four wings
of a fowl; the beast had also four heads; and
dominion was given to it" (Daniel 7:6),
Each "head" of this singular beast/"king" could
represent a different king, just as in a subsequent
vision each "horn" of a singular beast/"king" could
represent a different king:
"The rough goat is the king of Grecia: and the great
horn that is between his eyes is the first king. Now
that being broken, whereas four stood up for it, four
kingdoms shall stand up out of the nation, but not in
his power" (Daniel 8:21-22).
Note that the singular "king of Grecia", represented
by the entire goat, includes not only the first king,
represented by the great horn of the goat, but also
his four successors, represented by the four horns of
the goat which grow up on the goat after the great
horn has been broken.
The goat/"king" could be the same as the leopard/
"king"; they could both represent the Greek empire
founded by Alexander, but then divided into four
parts by his successors after his death.
So Daniel's vision of different beasts rising up out
of the sea could represent not a series of singular
kings, but a series of empires. If the leopard is
Greece, then the bear just preceding it could be
Medo-Persia, and the lion just preceding the bear
could be Babylon. This historical sequence of
Babylon, Medo-Persia, and Greece could be found
elsewhere in Daniel:
"Thou, O king, sawest, and behold a great image ...
This image's head was of fine gold, his breast and
his arms of silver, his belly and his thighs of
brass ... Thou art this head of gold. And after thee
shall arise another kingdom inferior to thee, and
another third kingdom of brass" (Daniel 2:38-39).
If this and Daniel's visions represented a series of
empires, then so could the beast with seven heads
seen by John in Revelation 13:1, which could be the
same beast as the one he sees later:
"Having seven heads ... The beast that thou sawest
was, and is not ... The seven heads are seven
mountains, on which the woman sitteth. And there are
seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the
other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must
continue a short space. And the beast that was, and
is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven"
(Revelation 17:3,8-11).
The "seven kings" could represent seven empires; the
five "fallen" by the time of John could be Egypt,
Assyria, Babylon, Medo-Persia, and Greece; the one
which "is" in the time of John would be Rome; and the
one to come could the empires of Islam, such as the
Ottoman Empire. The eighth empire, which "was, and is
not", could be a future empire which will be a
re-establishment of one of the five empires fallen by
the time of John. The fact that a woman John sees
riding the beast is called "Babylon" (Revelation
17:3-5) may indicate that the future empire will be
a re-establishment of the ancient empire of Babylon.
But its being "of the seven" could mean that it will
include former territories of all seven empires, so
that it will be a massive empire encompassing
Western Europe, North Africa, and the Middle East.
That was the extent of the Roman Empire, so that the
future empire could also be seen as a continuation of
that empire.
.
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