Re: The Holocaust a Divine Punishment?



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Topic: Religions > Bible
User: "charles"
Date: 24 Dec 2003 05:53:27 AM
Object: Re: The Holocaust a Divine Punishment?
Beaver Cleaver <beaver_cleaver@mayfield01net> wrote in message news:<6g6iuvct8ebdvfcb4r6avq9nor7p1omcn2@4ax.com>...

From:

(Debunks2005)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Date: 24 Dec 2003 00:25:32 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Subject: The Holocaust a Divine Punishment?
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On 24 Dec 2003 00:25:32 GMT, <20031223192532.03883.00001779@mb-m07.aol.com>
(Debunks2005) wrote:

Subject: FORWARD News.htm---The Jew by his source and in his very essence is
entirely good. The goy, by his source and in his very essence is completely
evil. This is not simply a matter of religious distinction, but rather of two
completely different species."

-----------------------------------------------------------

DECEMBER 19, 2003 | current issue | back issues | subscribe |

Charedi Rabbis Rush To Disavow Anti-Gentile Book
By ALLAN NADLER
Leaders of the country's most prominent ultra-Orthodox yeshiva are scrambling
to distance themselves from a book by one of their disciples, which argues that
gentiles are "completely evil" and Jews constitute a separate, genetically
superior species.

Written by Rabbi Saadya Grama ? an alumnus of Beth Medrash Govoha, the
renowned yeshiva in Lakewood, N.J. ? the self-published book attempts to
employ classical Jewish sources in defense of a race-based theory of Jewish
supremacy. Grama's book, published in Hebrew under the title "Romemut Yisrael
Ufarashat Hagalut," includes flowery endorsements from the most revered
religious scholars at the renowned Lakewood yeshiva, including the
institution's foremost religious leader, or rosh yeshiva, Rabbi Aryeh Malkiel
Kotler.

Yet, in a statement issued Tuesday in response to queries from the Forward,
Kotler rejected Grama's philosophy and said that he had not carefully reviewed
the text prior to endorsing it.

"We have seen the objectionable statements that allegedly appear in a sefer
[book] written by Rabbi Grama, a former student at our yeshivah," wrote Kotler,
whose late grandfather Rabbi Aharon Kotler founded the Lakewood yeshiva. "I did
glance briefly at the book but did not read it carefully ? which is the
general practice in providing approbations to the many books by alumni that
come across a desk like mine."

In his rare statement to the press, Kotler added: "In looking at the specific
points allegedly contained in the sefer, I can certainly tell you that they are
not reflective of normative Jewish thought and are certainly not the philosophy
of our yeshivah. Our philosophy asserts that every human being is created in
the image of the Lord and the primacy of integrity and honesty in all dealings
without exception. I strongly repudiate any assertions in the name of Judaism
that do not represent and reflect this philosophy."

The statement Tuesday struck a dramatically different chord from Kotler's
earlier endorsement of the book, in which he said Grama has written "on the
subjects of the Exile, the Election of Israel and her exaltation above and
superiority to all of the other nations, all in accordance with the viewpoint
of the Torah, based on the solid instruction he has received from his
teachers."

Kotler's disavowal of the book on Tuesday came at the end of an intense,
day-long scramble during which the Anti-Defamation League and the chancellor of
Yeshiva University condemned the book, and several ultra-Orthodox communal
spokesmen tried to convince the Forward not to report its existence. During the
course of the day, a popular bookstore in the heavily Orthodox Boro Park
section of Brooklyn told the Forward that it had just pulled the book off of
the tables at the author's request.

The controversy over Grama's book comes as the yeshiva is close to securing
$500,000 in federal funds for a Holocaust library (see accompanying story on
Page 4).

Coincidentally, in his book, Grama argues that the Holocaust was both a divine
punishment against the Jews for assimilation and also proof of the "true nature
and face" of the non-Jewish world. The book's title could be translated in
several ways, including "The Grandeur of Israel and the Issue of Exile" and
"Jewish Superiority and the Question of Exile."

Grama did not return a call seeking clarification on this point and other
questions about his polemic.

In his book, Grama writes: "The difference between the people of Israel and the
nations of the world is an essential one. The Jew by his source and in his very
essence is entirely good. The goy, by his source and in his very essence is
completely evil. This is not simply a matter of religious distinction, but
rather of two completely different species."

Grama's explanation of the Holocaust, as well as his other theories, drew harsh
criticism from Rabbi Norman Lamm, chancellor of Yeshiva University and the rosh
hayeshiva of its affiliated seminary. Lamm said that his only knowledge of the
book came from passages provided to him by the Forward, but that he rejected
what he understood to be Grama's arguments.

"It is a book by someone who has obviously taken leave of his senses and
adopted the kind of racism that was used against Jews since the beginning of
time," said Lamm, one of Modern Orthodoxy's most prominent leaders. "I almost
feel like offering a conjecture that it was written by an antisemite posing as
a rabbi."

Lamm added: "The passages that I have read managed to offend everyone ? the
Torah, the martyrs of the Holocaust, the Jewish ideals of justice and the
essential divinity that inheres in every human being regardless of religion,
race or ethnic origin."

In an effort to back up his arguments, Grama draws on an array of racist
sources ranging from medieval theological tracts to the writings of Friedrich
Nietzsche to the works of Nazi figures. Among other things, Grama argues:

? The differences between Jews and gentiles are not religious, historical,
cultural or political. They are, rather, racial, genetic and scientifically
unalterable. The one group is at its very root and by natural constitution
"totally evil" while the other is "totally good."

? Jewish successes in the world are completely contingent upon the failure of
all other peoples. Only when the gentiles face total catastrophe do the Jews
experience good fortune.

? The Jews themselves brought about their own destruction during the
Holocaust, since they arrogantly endeavored to overcome their very essence,
dictated by divine law, by leaving their ghettoes and trying to assimilate into
Christian European society. The confrontational approach of the Zionists, their
boycott of German products and anti-Nazi demonstrations in particular, only
exacerbated the peril to European Jewry. For this they were massacred by Hitler
who, while himself an evil person, was acting as God's agent in punishing the
Jews.

Grama also argues that in opposition to Zionism's advocacy of Jewish national
self-assertion and self-defense, which he views as an imitation of "gentile
ways," the Torah mandates that the Jews, while in exile, should employ such
means as appeasement, deception, duplicity and even "bribery" in their dealing
with gentiles, so as to avoid their wrath.

Grama's full-blown racialist theories appear to break new ground, building on a
handful of hints of national and racial chauvinism occasionally found in the
writings of a few earlier rabbinic figures, but combining them into a racialist
doctrine with no precedent in rabbinic literature. To be sure, a minority
stream exists in the rabbinic tradition ? from the 11th- and 12th-century
Hebrew romantic poet Yehuda Halevy to the 18th century chasidic sage Levi
Yitzhak of Berditchev ? which sees the differences between Jew and gentile as
innate, rather than merely religious. Perhaps the most extreme version of this
view is found in the central text of Chabad chasidism, Tanya, whose author,
Rabbi Shneur Zalman of Lyadi, Chabad's founder, maintained that Jewish and
gentile souls are fundamentally different, the former "divine" and the latter
"animalistic." That viewpoint has gained ground in recent decades, particularly
among charedi thinkers.

Rabbi Yitzhak Ginsburgh, who is considered one of the leading ideologues of the
Israeli Chabad movement, has written and spoken widely on the superiority of
Jews and was briefly imprisoned in Israel for racial incitement. Yated Ne'eman,
an Orthodox weekly in upstate New York that is affiliated with one of Israel's
main charedi dailies, has published essays on the question of whether medical
research can be understood to apply to Jews given the innate physiological
differences between Jews and gentiles.

Such arguments, however, have historically stood in tension with the prevailing
rabbinic view that the righteous gentiles of the world ? those who exhibit
the basic ethical and moral behavior encapsulated in the "Seven Laws of Noah"
? had the same access to personal salvation as fully observant Jews. This
view was summed up in the 12th century by Moses Maimonides, arguably the most
important Jewish sage of the past millennium, when he wrote in his code of
Jewish law: "Anyone who accepts the Seven Laws of Noah and is careful to
observe them is one of the righteous among the nations of the world and he has
a portion in the world to come."

Critics complained that Grama's racial theories also conflicts with ancient and
medieval rabbinic rules mandating equal treatment in all realms for converts to
Judaism.

Grama frequently quotes Biblical verses that advocate terribly harsh treatment
of the pagan inhabitants of ancient Canaan, implying that the same standards
ought to be applied to his non-Jewish neighbors in America. By doing so, he
appears to disregard extensive rabbinic deliberations dating back to the early
medieval period whose general consensus was that Christianity and Islam are
licit, monotheistic faiths. The net result of these medieval rabbinic
deliberations was to limit the application of such Biblical laws to anc ent
pagans, and to mandate that Muslims and Christians could not be classified
together with the idol-worshippers of earlier times.

When informed of Grama's arguments, the associate national director of the
Anti-Defamation League, Kenneth Jacobson, described them as "pure racism."

"It shows that we in our community are quite capable of the same kind of hatred
that exists in other communities," Jacobson said. "We have an obligation to
reject hatred in our community, just as we do when it comes out of other
communities."


Allan Nadler is the Director of the Jewish Studies Program at Drew University
and Senior Advisor for Academic Affairs at the YIVO Institute for Jewish
Research.

Ami Eden and Steven I. Weiss contributed to this report.


<END>

The above article was from:
http://www.forward.com/issues/2003/03.12.19/news4a.html
(Link active December 23, 2003. Archived locally as: forward_news4a)

http://www.google.com/search?as_q=&num=10&hl=en&ie=ISO-8859-1&btnG=Google+Search&as_epq=Charedi+Rabbis+Rush+To+Disavow+Anti-Gentile+Book&as_oq=&as_eq=&lr=&as_ft=i&as_filetype=&as_qdr=all&as_occt=any&as_dt=i&as_sitesearch=&safe=images
Searched the web for "Charedi Rabbis Rush To Disavow Anti-Gentile Book".
Results 1 - 10 of about 15 (Search done 12/23/2003 at 11:00PM CST)

The above only goes further to prove the definite bigotry Jews have toward the
rest of humanity. Though the Children of the Devil seek to hide their hate and
though they have a facade of being pleasant they do teach non-Jews as being
their inferiors.

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=&selm=vd01cvsh9ta3ep7b3crfru9ce2rb0snnls%404ax.com&rnum=1
Subject: Children of the Devil and Anti-Christ[s] Positively Identified Using
Scripture-- Check The Proofs For Yourselves! V2.0
Message-ID: <vd01cvsh9ta3ep7b3crfru9ce2rb0snnls@4ax.com>
Date: 13 May 2003 05:29:00 GMT

Also see:

--Jewish Tradition will NEVER teach Non-Jews as being equals--
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=&selm=kllghv4i1i04qsl4hc4uva984ad499imdg%404ax.com&rnum=1
Subject: Non-Jews: What is Taught About Them & How They are Viewed by 21st
Century Pharisees V2.1 Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 15:23:59 -0500
Message-ID: <kllghv4i1i04qsl4hc4uva984ad499imdg@4ax.com>
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=&selm=b6beevshh8dcr43hk33rafn23fvo2p8c9c%404ax.com&rnum=1
Subject: All Men Are Created Equal is NOT a Jewish Concept
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 08:27:38 -0500
Message-ID: <b6beevshh8dcr43hk33rafn23fvo2p8c9c@4ax.com>
http://groups.google.com/groups?safe=images&ie=ISO-8859-1&as_umsgid=iajpkv0j8trac76iaat7h56lck5dnro7t5@4ax.com&lr=&hl=en
Subject: Jews Want Legal and Financial Superiority Over the Non-Jew; Who is NOT
a "Brother" in Their Eyes! V2.0 R_0827
Message-ID: <iajpkv0j8trac76iaat7h56lck5dnro7t5@4ax.com>
Date: 27 Aug 2003 15:36:36 GMT
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=&selm=ejoodv8ba5n1ja6k5f13i0bfp46nhfb257%404ax.com&rnum=3
Subject: Bigoted Reasoning of Jews on Relations with Non-Jews From Chabad
Lubavitch Cyberspace Website
Message-ID: <ejoodv8ba5n1ja6k5f13i0bfp46nhfb257@4ax.com>
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=&selm=3eaade4a.64590087%40tavish-central.net&rnum=5
Subject: Exclusion Entirely of Non-Jews in the Jewish Scheme of Things! R_0426
Message-ID: <3eaade4a.64590087@tavish-central.net>
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=&selm=3eca1e34.54088216%40tavish-central.net&rnum=6
Subject: Lessons in Tanya- Hasidism - Only Jews Have Souls & Heavenly
Pre-Earthly Existence? R_0520
Message-ID: <3eca1e34.54088216@tavish-central.net>
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=&selm=r6qodvco6ecqdnokego4e73qjtqptk2iis%404ax.com&rnum=13
Subject: About Kashrus and Supervision - What Jews Teach Concerning non-Jews (In
Their Own Words Series) R_0603
Message-ID: <r6qodvco6ecqdnokego4e73qjtqptk2iis@4ax.com>
Date: 10 Jul 2003 13:03:01 GMT

http://groups.google.com/groups?safe=images&ie=ISO-8859-1&as_umsgid=51smtvgjk7u1kfqdota1b1eq60kqi5at4v@4ax.com&lr=&hl=en
Subject: Anti-Christ Lubavitcher Jews Prophesy Non-Jews Being in Servitude to
Jews (First Posting) Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2003 14:02:19 -0600
Message-ID: <51smtvgjk7u1kfqdota1b1eq60kqi5at4v@4ax.com>

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=&selm=qf7acvoa8hfn3bi2fttrvo00fhaoi2f8ip%404ax.com&rnum=1
Subject: Old Covenant Vs New -- New Covenant Replaces Old Covenant (Jews NO
Longer God's Chosen People & Entitled to "Israel" So Says the Scripture!)
Message-ID: <qf7acvoa8hfn3bi2fttrvo00fhaoi2f8ip@4ax.com>

http://groups.google.com/groups?safe=images&ie=ISO-8859-1&as_umsgid=1g60hvoj0b21pn339i33jkc7d3jfp649qv@4ax.com&lr=&hl=en
Subject: Palestine was Changed to a Socialist Jewish State in 1948 by Ben-Gurion
with Communist Soviet Union's Support
Message-ID: <1g60hvoj0b21pn339i33jkc7d3jfp649qv@4ax.com>
Date: 12 Jul 2003 14:16:47 GMT

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=&selm=3u3kevget4eif2tsgh5213e8chvlonqcum%404ax.com&rnum=1
Subject: Who says Socialism and Communism aren't the same and are adhered to by
the same people? CP USA Speaks out! R_0613
Message-ID: <3u3kevget4eif2tsgh5213e8chvlonqcum@4ax.com>
Date: 13 Jun 2003 17:50:08 GMT

How First Century Christianity Was Treated by Jews:
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=&selm=m1p5nv4es86j78p5dr5pe41l8pi3vfcst0%404ax.com&rnum=1
Subject: UPDATED The Most Heinous Murder Plot Ever Devised (For Your Archives &
Research) V2.5 R_0925
Message-ID: <m1p5nv4es86j78p5dr5pe41l8pi3vfcst0@4ax.com>
Date: 25 Sep 2003 13:23:49 GMT
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=&selm=k11ucvc1j4hl6s7av6qpr9882esa96oaav%404ax.com&rnum=1
Subject: Babylon the Great - Religious Persecution, Torture, Harassment R_0524
Message-ID: <k11ucvc1j4hl6s7av6qpr9882esa96oaav@4ax.com>
Date: 24 May 2003 05:30:17 GMT
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=&selm=i31ucv4nvr6ehh6r2jgq8d7orrpfhm3j09%404ax.com&rnum=1
Subject: The Apostle Paul on Judaized Jews R_0524
Message-ID: <i31ucv4nvr6ehh6r2jgq8d7orrpfhm3j09@4ax.com>
Date: 24 May 2003 05:30:25 GMT
The first "Holocaust" was not Gentiles (Nazis) Against Jews
BUT was Jews (Communists) Against Christian Kulaks!!!
How Later Christianity was/is treated by Jews:
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=&selm=upe9kvor1pdvm2ifa8sfa0qfboa6ull055%404ax.com&rnum=1
Subject: Comparing Israel's "Anti-Christ Activism" to Other Middle East Nations
is NOT a Valid Comparison V2.5 R_0821
Message-ID: <upe9kvor1pdvm2ifa8sfa0qfboa6ull055@4ax.com>
Date: 21 Aug 2003 12:22:34 GMT
Jewish Led Bolsheviks Scalped & Crucified Christians by Philippa Fletcher
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=&selm=34c17d0f.1410012285%40news.smart1.net&rnum=7
Subject: Bolsheviks Scalped and Crucified Christians -
Date: 1998/01/18
Message-ID: <34c17d0f.1410012285@news.smart1.net>
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=&selm=5ptrmvcjlgiai9pf8ein1ncecid622fptu%404ax.com&rnum=1
Subject: Post-Soviet Religion (What Communists did to Christians) Newly
Expanded 09-21-2003 R_0921
Message-ID: <5ptrmvcjlgiai9pf8ein1ncecid622fptu@4ax.com>
Date: 21 Sep 2003 19:48:03 GMT

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=&selm=rqbetvcbda7er4vl25008qo2uetssudk52%404ax.com&rnum=1
Subject: Forefathers of the Soviet State and Anti-Christ Communism V3.0d
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 08:53:59 -0600
Message-ID: <rqbetvcbda7er4vl25008qo2uetssudk52@4ax.com>
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=&selm=b43pfv0nt84g1ee656lve4mmo09daqod0f%404ax.com&rnum=1
Subject: Solzhenitsyn Book Infuriates Russian Jews R_0627
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 13:37:17 -0500
Message-ID: <b43pfv0nt84g1ee656lve4mmo09daqod0f@4ax.com>
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=&selm=ncu5gvoc1nga0k933sgt0sbtglrv1nlb4e%404ax.com&rnum=1
Subject: Communist Holocaust Has Killed Over 100 Million People
Message-ID: <ncu5gvoc1nga0k933sgt0sbtglrv1nlb4e@4ax.com>
Date: 2 Jul 2003 15:33:38 GMT

Holocausts Jews have waged against non-Jews and Jewish denial of their
Holocausts against Christians/non-Jews:

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=&selm=5rhktv483m9oofgqt8goir93o4pm08ht49%404ax.com&rnum=1
Subject: UPDATED: 3 Major Jewish Organizations Engage in Holocaust Denial in
Addition to Their anti-Christic Christ Denial anti-Christism
Message-ID: <5rhktv483m9oofgqt8goir93o4pm08ht49@4ax.com>
Date: 12 Dec 2003 22:57:48 GMT

Tavish

Ed Asner=Jew & Stalin Admirer
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,100137,00.html
(Link active November 3, 2003. Archived locally: ASSner_stalin)
Wednesday October 25, 2003
by Brit Hume
FOX NEWS
A Stalin Admirer?
Actor Ed Asner [was] asked to choose the historical figure he respected
most and would like to play some day responded, "My answer would have to be Joe
Stalin ... I think Joe Stalin was a guy that was hugely misunderstood."
Asner did not say what it was about the Soviet dictator, under whom
millions more died than in Hitler's Holocaust, that was misunderstood. <END>
http://www.horizonmag.com/1/asner.htm
(Link active November 4, 2003. Archived locally as: commie_jew_ASSner)
"...[Ed] Asner was raised in a traditional Orthodox Jewish family... <END>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"For pure murderous evil, there has never been a force to compare with
Communism. The Nazis didn't come close. The Holocaust was uniquely
malignant - never before or since did one people construct a vast industry
of death for the sole purpose of rounding up and destroying every single member
of another people. But the Nazis exterminated 11 million innocents; the
Communist death toll surpasses 100 million."
TO THE VICTIMS OF COMMUNISM, LEST WE FORGET
By Jeff Jacoby
The Boston Globe
December 7, 1995
http://www.physics.ncat.edu/~michael/vses/eth4000/victim.html
(Link active June 22, 2003. Archived locally as: eth4000_victim)
See the entire contents the above was excerpted from with his link:
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=&selm=jrqdrvs5ap8db078d0vhtvik326q56s621%404ax.com&rnum=7
Subject: Comrade Ed Asner on Comrade Joseph Stalin (He's a Jew and a Member of
the Democratic Socialists of America!!) V2.1 R_1115
Message-ID: <jrqdrvs5ap8db078d0vhtvik326q56s621@4ax.com>


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Charles
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