FREEDOM FOR THE WRETCHED PERSON
OF ROMANS 7:15-25

I believe that God allows us to reach that awful place (of
Romans 7:15-25) before we become a new creation, so that
we will never be deceived into thinking that it is our work
instead of His.

On the road to eternal life, most Christians are stuck
in the rut of Romans 7:15 and will never reach the Holy
City because they have never been told that they MUST
stop committing willful sin --and that it is possible to
overcome the works of the flesh through the enabling power
of the Holy Spirit.

That "rut" of Romans 7 is awful, and makes us wretched
men*; but it is a necessary part of the journey in our walk of
faith. (It hurts to be crucified and die --and the "old man"
will try every device that he can to take a few more breaths
of the old self-life.

But, those who become sons and daughters of The Living
God, through faith, understand that "With God All Things
Are Possible" as they cry out to Jesus for the enabling
power of The Comforter.

They come to the understanding that the same God that
created the universe is able to create in us a new heart and a
right spirit. By faith, we are delivered from the power of
darkness and are translated into the kingdom of God's dear
Son. To God be the glory!

Donna Kupp

* Note: More commentary follows ...

In Romans, verse l5, Paul says, "...for I am not practicing what
I like, but I am doing the very thing I hate." In verse l8, he says,
"For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh;
for the wishing is present in me, but the doing of the good is not."
and in verse l9, "For the good that I wish, I do not do;
but I practice the very evil that I do not wish."

That is a difficult passage because it seems to say that Paul
could never cease from committing sin. However, if that
were true it would contradict John who wrote:

"No one who abides in him sins;
no one who sins has either seen him
or known him." I Jn 3:6

He who commits sin is of the devil;
for the devil has sinned from the
beginning. The reason the Son of God
appeared was to destroy
the works of the devil."
I Jn 3:8

So what was Paul talking about when he said:
"For we know that the law is spiritual:
but I am carnal, sold under sin.

For that which I do I allow not: for what I would,
that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.

If then I do that which I would not,
I consent unto the law that
it is good.

Now then it is no more I that do it,
but sin that dwelleth in me.
For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,)
dwelleth no good thing:
for to will is present with me;
but how to perform that which is good
I find not.

For the good that I would I do not:
but the evil which I would not,
that I do.
Now if I do that I would not,
it is no more I that do it,
but sin that dwelleth in me.

I find then a law, that, when I would do good,
evil is present with me.

For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
But I see another law in my members,
warring against the law of my mind,
and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is
in my members.

O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from
THE BODY OF THIS DEATH?
I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
So then with the mind
I myself serve the law of God;
but with the flesh the law of sin."
Romans 7:15-25

That passage speaks of the experience of all who would
follow God and keep his commandments. When we first
commit to obey God (Repent) we say that the law is "just
and holy and good".

But when we try to obey it we find ourselves at war with
our own flesh. To our dismay we do the very things we
would not. What are we to do? Like Paul we have learned
that "the wages of sin is death". Yet we cannot cease from
sin!

It is at this point that we also cry out to God, just as Paul did:

"O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from
the body of this death?"

The answer is found in the next line:

"I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord"

It is Jesus who will deliver us from the power of sin.
Through the power of the Holy Spirit we are able to cease
from sin and quit "living after the flesh". Not only able, but
we must! That is why Paul carefully warned the Roman
Christians...

"For if you live according to the flesh YOU WILL DIE,
but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body
YOU WILL LIVE." Romans 8:13.

As you can see in the above verses, in Romans 7 & 8, Paul
was speaking of the transition from helpless sinner who
lived after the flesh to victorious son of God who was led by
the Spirit.

"For all who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God."
Rom 8:14

There is a very interesting historical note about the phrase
Paul used when he said:

"O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from
THE BODY OF THIS DEATH?"

The term "the body of this death" refers to the practice of
chaining the body of a murdered victim to the body of his
murderer. This horrible fate of being consumed by the
rotting flesh was the picture Paul was drawing of our being
spiritually chained to our flesh which would inevitably be
the cause of our spiritual death.

Sorry for the graphic ugliness but one cannot really
understand the urgency and desperate plea of Paul to be
delivered from his "body of death" without that explanation.

The problem I see is that if a person is taught that he (or
she) cannot cease from sin, they will never come to the
point where they cry out with Paul for deliverance. I know
that I personally went through a similar experience, where I
wanted to obey God's law, but I could not. In helpless
desperation, I cried out to God for help. I knew that if He
wanted me to obey His Commandments, He would have
to make it possible.

Soon after, I found in me the grace to obey. I am now able
to resist the power of the flesh, where before I could not.
And I too, with everlasting thankfulness am able to say:

"I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord"
dk

"And the dragon was wroth with the woman,
and went to make war with the remnant of her seed,
WHICH KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD,
AND HAVE THE TESTIMONY OF JESUS CHRIST." Rev 12:17 (KJV)

The Seven Deadly Deceptions Of Counterfeit Christianity
www.freetruth.info

Glenn (Christian Mystic) wrote:

"Donna Kupp" <dkupp@charter.net> wrote in message
news:1160580184.338507.190780@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...

Friends,

Through the enabling power of the Holy Spirit, Christians can
(and must) overcome willful sin to qualify for eternal life.

"Willful sin" Thanks for clearifying.

Please read Romans 7, too often our sinful nature wins out, yet this
nature
sins, not us.

Glenn (Christian Mystic)

Left your post in tact, but had no more to say.

Anyone
who suggests otherwise is giving an evil report like "Tokyo Rose"
or the ten pessimistic chieftains who brainwashed ancient
Israel into believing it could not conquer the giants of Canaan ...

MINISTRY OF TOKYO ROSE

During World War II, a number of women with seductive voices would
spin records of American dance music and reminisce about life in the
United States. These broadcasters were called "Tokyo Rose" and were
part
of Japan's psychological warfare against the United States. The
strategy was to combine entertainment and propaganda in order to weaken
the morale of American soldiers. Tokyo Rose told them they couldn't
win
the war.

Psychological warfare is no new thing. For centuries, Satan has used
propaganda to demoralize the people of God, and when we look at his
mode
of operation, we can see that Satan's most effective spokesmen are
trusted church leaders.

An account of how propaganda unnerved a nation by destroying its
people's morale is given in the Book of Numbers. It took place at
Kadesh-barnea where ten pessimistic chieftains brainwashed ancient
Israel into believing it could not conquer the giants of Canaan.

Here is what happened: God had promised Israel the land of Canaan
for an inheritance and told Moses to send out a man from every tribe to
scout the land. When the twelve spies finished their reconnaissance
mission, they returned to the camp of Israel with the grapes of Eshcol
and gave this report:

"It flows with milk and honey, and this is its fruit.
Yet, the people who dwell in the land are strong, and
the cities are fortified and very large; and besides,
we saw the descendants of Anak there." Numbers 13:27-28

Their search of the land revealed many powerful enemies who were
much
stronger than Israel. And yet, Joshua and Caleb believed Israel would
possess its inheritance (if the people obeyed God and resisted their
enemies) because the battle was the LORD's. So, Caleb quieted the
people and said:

"Let us go up at once, and occupy it; for we are well able to
overcome it." Numbers 13:30

But then the ten spies who had searched the land with Caleb and
Joshua began their "ministry of Tokyo Rose", they said:

"We are not able to go up against the people, for they are too
strong for us." Numbers 13:31

Israel heard two conflicting messages; one was a good report that
spoke of victory through the enabling power of God; the other was an
evil report that spoke of defeat. That entire generation (except Joshua
and Caleb) did not possess their inheritance and perished in the
wilderness because they listened to leaders who did not trust and obey
God.

Forty years later a new generation under the leadership of Joshua
entered Canaan and possessed it. Nevertheless, they could not possess
their promised inheritance without first following the ark of the
covenant, containing the Ten Commandments, into the river Jordan. It
is
the same today. Each believer must follow the Ten Commandments, even
unto death, before he can inherit eternal life, just as Jesus said:

"If you would enter life, keep the commandments."
Mat 19:17

It is true that the most noble of men are unable to obey God in
their
own strength because of their natural propensity to sin. The sinful
passions that reside in each of us rise up as giants in our times of
temptation and are too strong for us to conquer without the power of
God. However, Jesus Christ speaking of obedience to the Ten
commandments, said:

"With men this is impossible; but with God all things are
possible."
Mat 19:25

The Christian soldier who receives his inheritance is the one who
overcomes sin. He trusts in the blood of the Lamb for forgiveness of
sins and turns away from the authority of Satan just like the children
of Israel left the rule of Pharaoh. He would rather die than knowingly
disobey God, so he resists the devil and trusts Christ for the enabling
power that he needs.

"And they overcame him [Satan] by the blood of the Lamb, and by
the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives
unto death." Rev 12:11

Today, few Christians live an overcoming life because most
believe the "Tokyo Rose" ministries. By means of entertainment and
propaganda, those so-called preachers are destroying the morals of the
church by telling the people they cannot (or need not) have victory
over
willful sin in order to inherit eternal life.

As long as false teachers in the church system remove the eternal
penalty for disobedience, disobedience will never be removed from
the church.

Donna Kupp

"And the dragon was wroth with the woman,
and went to make war with the remnant of her seed,
WHICH KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD,
AND HAVE THE TESTIMONY OF JESUS CHRIST." Rev 12:17 (KJV)

The Seven Deadly Deceptions Of Counterfeit Christianity
www.freetruth.info









Glenn (Christian Mystic) wrote:

1 John 1:8, I guess no one, not even you, is in Christ !

"Donna Kupp" <dkupp@charter.net> wrote in message
news:1151433229.676067.260580@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com...

Many "believers" who deliberately break God's law are
using the following verse to convince themselves they will
not be condemned for their sins:

"There is therefore now no condemnation to them
which are in Christ Jesus,
who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit."
Rom 8:1 (KJV)

Only those who are "IN" Christ have no condemnation;
but, what exactly does it mean to be ***IN*** Christ
Jesus? Here are three scriptural tests to determine if one
actually is in Christ:

1. Am I walking as Jesus walked? Yes [ ] No [ ]

"He that saith he abideth *in him* ought himself
also so to walk, even as he walked."
I Jn 2:6 (KJV)

2. Am I keeping his commandments? Yes [ ] No [ ]

"All who keep his commandments abide *in him*,..."
I Jn 3:24 (RSV)

3. Have I stopped committing sin? Yes [ ] No [ ]

"Whosoever abideth *in him* sinneth not: " I Jn 3:6 (KJV)

Anyone who answers "no" to any of the above questions is
not in Christ. Jesus gave this warning to those who do not
abide in Him:

"If a man does not abide in me,
he is cast forth as a branch and withers;
and the branches are gathered,
thrown into the fire and BURNED".
John 15:6 (RSV)

The word ABIDE comes from the Greek: meno, which
means "to remain in." All who are truly born of God are "in
Christ." But to be saved from destruction, you must
REMAIN in Christ. The scriptures are clear --those who
are IN Christ keep his commandments and sinneth not. It is
they who are not under condemnation.

In addition, since Paul said that those who are IN Christ
"walk not after the flesh", we need to understand what that
phrase means. In the 5th chapter of Galatians, Paul lists the
works of the flesh that will keep us from inheriting the
kingdom of God:

adultery fornication uncleanness

laciviousness idolatry witchcraft

hatred variance emulations

wrath strife sedations

heresies envyings murders

drunkenness revellings and-such-like
Gal 5:19-21

Those who continue to do such things are walking after the
flesh. Those who stop doing such things are walking after
the Spirit and have "mortified (put to death) the deeds of
the body". (See Romans 8:13)

"And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh
with the affections [passions] and lusts."
Gal 5:24 (KJV)

Crucifixion is a slow, painful death. Few are willing to deny
themselves and pick up their cross to follow Jesus.
Nevertheless, that is exactly what we must do in order to
BELONG TO CHRIST and inherit eternal life.

Our sin nature craves to do the works of the flesh;
therefore, it must die to every selfish desire that is opposed
to God's law. That is what Peter told the church in Asia
when he wrote:

"Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh,
arm yourselves likewise with the same mind:
for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;"
1 Pet 4:1 (KJV)

Jesus bore his cross for the forgiveness of our sins. We
must also be willing to suffer in the flesh as we die to the
rule of sin over our lives. When we do this, we will not be
walking after the flesh but after the Spirit and we can be
certain that we have "no condemnation.".

Donna Kupp

A warning from the judge ...

"And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared
not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten
with many stripes." Jesus Christ ( Luke 12:47)

dk
"And the dragon was wroth with the woman,
and went to make war with the remnant of her seed,
WHICH KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD,
AND HAVE THE TESTIMONY OF JESUS CHRIST." Rev 12:17 (KJV)

The Seven Deadly Deceptions Of Counterfeit Christianity
www.freetruth.info

You know Glenn, other pastors when I could not forgive myself for things I
have done throughout my life have said the very same thing as you just
did. Thank you for the Scripture that backs this up. I really appreciate
this. Maybe now I can begin to forgive me.


"Glenn (Christian Mystic)" <christianmystic@ev1.net> wrote in message
news:12j4sgk8u6m0t62@corp.supernews.com...

"Donna Kupp" <dkupp@charter.net> wrote in message
news:1160580184.338507.190780@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...

Friends,

Through the enabling power of the Holy Spirit, Christians can
(and must) overcome willful sin to qualify for eternal life.

"Willful sin" Thanks for clearifying.

Please read Romans 7, too often our sinful nature wins out, yet this
nature sins, not us.

Glenn (Christian Mystic)

Left your post in tact, but had no more to say.

Anyone
who suggests otherwise is giving an evil report like "Tokyo Rose"
or the ten pessimistic chieftains who brainwashed ancient
Israel into believing it could not conquer the giants of Canaan ...

MINISTRY OF TOKYO ROSE

During World War II, a number of women with seductive voices would
spin records of American dance music and reminisce about life in the
United States. These broadcasters were called "Tokyo Rose" and were
part
of Japan's psychological warfare against the United States. The
strategy was to combine entertainment and propaganda in order to weaken
the morale of American soldiers. Tokyo Rose told them they couldn't
win
the war.

Psychological warfare is no new thing. For centuries, Satan has used
propaganda to demoralize the people of God, and when we look at his
mode
of operation, we can see that Satan's most effective spokesmen are
trusted church leaders.

An account of how propaganda unnerved a nation by destroying its
people's morale is given in the Book of Numbers. It took place at
Kadesh-barnea where ten pessimistic chieftains brainwashed ancient
Israel into believing it could not conquer the giants of Canaan.

Here is what happened: God had promised Israel the land of Canaan
for an inheritance and told Moses to send out a man from every tribe to
scout the land. When the twelve spies finished their reconnaissance
mission, they returned to the camp of Israel with the grapes of Eshcol
and gave this report:

"It flows with milk and honey, and this is its fruit.
Yet, the people who dwell in the land are strong, and
the cities are fortified and very large; and besides,
we saw the descendants of Anak there." Numbers 13:27-28

Their search of the land revealed many powerful enemies who were
much
stronger than Israel. And yet, Joshua and Caleb believed Israel would
possess its inheritance (if the people obeyed God and resisted their
enemies) because the battle was the LORD's. So, Caleb quieted the
people and said:

"Let us go up at once, and occupy it; for we are well able to
overcome it." Numbers 13:30

But then the ten spies who had searched the land with Caleb and
Joshua began their "ministry of Tokyo Rose", they said:

"We are not able to go up against the people, for they are too
strong for us." Numbers 13:31

Israel heard two conflicting messages; one was a good report that
spoke of victory through the enabling power of God; the other was an
evil report that spoke of defeat. That entire generation (except Joshua
and Caleb) did not possess their inheritance and perished in the
wilderness because they listened to leaders who did not trust and obey
God.

Forty years later a new generation under the leadership of Joshua
entered Canaan and possessed it. Nevertheless, they could not possess
their promised inheritance without first following the ark of the
covenant, containing the Ten Commandments, into the river Jordan. It
is
the same today. Each believer must follow the Ten Commandments, even
unto death, before he can inherit eternal life, just as Jesus said:

"If you would enter life, keep the commandments."
Mat 19:17

It is true that the most noble of men are unable to obey God in
their
own strength because of their natural propensity to sin. The sinful
passions that reside in each of us rise up as giants in our times of
temptation and are too strong for us to conquer without the power of
God. However, Jesus Christ speaking of obedience to the Ten
commandments, said:

"With men this is impossible; but with God all things are
possible."
Mat 19:25

The Christian soldier who receives his inheritance is the one who
overcomes sin. He trusts in the blood of the Lamb for forgiveness of
sins and turns away from the authority of Satan just like the children
of Israel left the rule of Pharaoh. He would rather die than knowingly
disobey God, so he resists the devil and trusts Christ for the enabling
power that he needs.

"And they overcame him [Satan] by the blood of the Lamb, and by
the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives
unto death." Rev 12:11

Today, few Christians live an overcoming life because most
believe the "Tokyo Rose" ministries. By means of entertainment and
propaganda, those so-called preachers are destroying the morals of the
church by telling the people they cannot (or need not) have victory
over
willful sin in order to inherit eternal life.

As long as false teachers in the church system remove the eternal
penalty for disobedience, disobedience will never be removed from
the church.

Donna Kupp

"And the dragon was wroth with the woman,
and went to make war with the remnant of her seed,
WHICH KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD,
AND HAVE THE TESTIMONY OF JESUS CHRIST." Rev 12:17 (KJV)

The Seven Deadly Deceptions Of Counterfeit Christianity
www.freetruth.info









Glenn (Christian Mystic) wrote:

1 John 1:8, I guess no one, not even you, is in Christ !

"Donna Kupp" <dkupp@charter.net> wrote in message
news:1151433229.676067.260580@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com...

Many "believers" who deliberately break God's law are
using the following verse to convince themselves they will
not be condemned for their sins:

"There is therefore now no condemnation to them
which are in Christ Jesus,
who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit."
Rom 8:1 (KJV)

Only those who are "IN" Christ have no condemnation;
but, what exactly does it mean to be ***IN*** Christ
Jesus? Here are three scriptural tests to determine if one
actually is in Christ:

1. Am I walking as Jesus walked? Yes [ ] No [ ]

"He that saith he abideth *in him* ought himself
also so to walk, even as he walked."
I Jn 2:6 (KJV)

2. Am I keeping his commandments? Yes [ ] No [ ]

"All who keep his commandments abide *in him*,..."
I Jn 3:24 (RSV)

3. Have I stopped committing sin? Yes [ ] No [ ]

"Whosoever abideth *in him* sinneth not: " I Jn 3:6 (KJV)

Anyone who answers "no" to any of the above questions is
not in Christ. Jesus gave this warning to those who do not
abide in Him:

"If a man does not abide in me,
he is cast forth as a branch and withers;
and the branches are gathered,
thrown into the fire and BURNED".
John 15:6 (RSV)

The word ABIDE comes from the Greek: meno, which
means "to remain in." All who are truly born of God are "in
Christ." But to be saved from destruction, you must
REMAIN in Christ. The scriptures are clear --those who
are IN Christ keep his commandments and sinneth not. It is
they who are not under condemnation.

In addition, since Paul said that those who are IN Christ
"walk not after the flesh", we need to understand what that
phrase means. In the 5th chapter of Galatians, Paul lists the
works of the flesh that will keep us from inheriting the
kingdom of God:

adultery fornication uncleanness

laciviousness idolatry witchcraft

hatred variance emulations

wrath strife sedations

heresies envyings murders

drunkenness revellings and-such-like
Gal 5:19-21

Those who continue to do such things are walking after the
flesh. Those who stop doing such things are walking after
the Spirit and have "mortified (put to death) the deeds of
the body". (See Romans 8:13)

"And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh
with the affections [passions] and lusts."
Gal 5:24 (KJV)

Crucifixion is a slow, painful death. Few are willing to deny
themselves and pick up their cross to follow Jesus.
Nevertheless, that is exactly what we must do in order to
BELONG TO CHRIST and inherit eternal life.

Our sin nature craves to do the works of the flesh;
therefore, it must die to every selfish desire that is opposed
to God's law. That is what Peter told the church in Asia
when he wrote:

"Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh,
arm yourselves likewise with the same mind:
for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;"
1 Pet 4:1 (KJV)

Jesus bore his cross for the forgiveness of our sins. We
must also be willing to suffer in the flesh as we die to the
rule of sin over our lives. When we do this, we will not be
walking after the flesh but after the Spirit and we can be
certain that we have "no condemnation.".

Donna Kupp

A warning from the judge ...

"And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared
not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten
with many stripes." Jesus Christ ( Luke 12:47)

dk
"And the dragon was wroth with the woman,
and went to make war with the remnant of her seed,
WHICH KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD,
AND HAVE THE TESTIMONY OF JESUS CHRIST." Rev 12:17 (KJV)

The Seven Deadly Deceptions Of Counterfeit Christianity
www.freetruth.info

I quoted Jesus Christ precisely, when he said:

" ... Why callest thou me good?
there is none good but one, that is, God:

BUT ***IF *** THOU WILT ENTER INTO LIFE,
KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS." Matt 19:17 (KJV)

* IF - on the condition that. The Winston Senior Dictionary.

if - #1487 ei (i); a primary particle of conditionality;
Strong's Concordance

So Ike, Jesus Christ is preaching the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
and that "IF" proves that Jesus preached that one must qualify
for eternal life by keeping the commandments.

Donna Kupp
www.freetruth.info