| Topic: |
Religions > Bible |
| User: |
"Terry Cross" |
| Date: |
23 Dec 2007 10:29:18 PM |
| Object: |
Re: "The Truth of Judaism" |
On Dec 23, 3:18 pm, Debra <the2goldilo...@aol.com> wrote:
On Dec 23, 1:30=EF=BF=BDpm, "Suzanne" <shil...@flash.net> wrote:
"Debra" <the2goldilo...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:b3eaef11-06cf-4bc7-852f-a28d03461541@w56g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...=
On Dec 22, 2:45?am, guardian Snow <snowpheo...@eck.net.au> wrote:
On Dec 22, 4:07 am, Debra <the2goldilo...@aol.com> wrote:
You know...I think Mark(Snow) has quoted that Jack Nicholson/Tom
Cruise type quote to me...I will have to go back to look over the
emails I have received a couple of months ago.
I use to use it on my profile. Now I use a Christian Slater quote
from, "Pump Up the Volume"
The truth is a virus.
:)
Shalom,
Snow
A leaf fluttered in through the window this morning, as if supported
by the rays of the sun, a bird settled on the fire escape, joy in the
task of coffee, joy accompanied me as I walked. Love never dies a
natural death. It dies because we don't know how to replenish it's
source. It dies of blindness and errors and betrayals. It dies of
illness and wounds; it dies of weariness, of witherings, of
tarnishings.
Anais Nin
The truth of the Torah is just the TRUTH.
Most just can't acknowledge it without adding to it the truth they
have been taught in addition.
Pump up the Volume...wasn't that in some pop song? Never heard of it
as a quote...What is the meaning behind it?
Debra
What do you mean by "the truth of the Torah is just the TRUTH.
Most people need to truth first. Jesus came along and gave
it meaning because the Torah is all about him.
Suzanne- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
I mean that the NT is not the truth when compared to Torah and the
Prophets...Paull is a false apostle...and the PEACE that was supposed
to happen when Messiah came hasn't yet...The NT alleged fulfillments
do not match the OT prophecies exactly...
Learned something new this week that makes sense too...The people of
the Hebrew faith never had a "custom" of releasing a prisoner as the
NT states either...It is amazing how we believe something just because
we are taught it is truth...Whether we can put it all together as
making total sense or not.
Paul was both lawful and lawless...So was Jesus...if you change
Torah...and it leads you away from following G-d's laws, commandments
precepts and ordinances...then it is not the truth... In Deuteronomy
is the test for a false prophet...There is no prophet at this point in
time who has led the world by the truth of Torah...who has joined the
two houses of Israel and Judah back together and who has ushered in
world peace exactly as Prophecy states.
G-d says he doesn't want to be worshipped as the heathen...The heathen
have the same exact story as the birth, life, resurrection, titles,
etc of Jesus...and the December 25th Christmas celebration...G-d says
HE ALONE IS SAVIOR AND THE ROCK...The NT changed that...You have to go
back and read the entire OT to see the actual prophecies...G-d says he
is ONE not that he is a trinity as the heathen gods.
Paul has 3 conversion stories in Acts and one is a quote from a play
honoring Zeus which can be shown historically...Did he stand or fall,
see or not see, hear or not hear...He and the "wintesses who were with
him who never spoke??"
Paul circumcises Timothy in Acts 16 when the rest of his epistles and
Acts 15 say it is not necessary.
Many more examples...Just two for him.
Jesus changes adultery to looking at a woman vs actually sleeping with
a married woman.
He changes a woman free through divorcement to be unable to marry
another although Torah says she can and that if she remarries and
marries another and is divorced again...The only thing she would be
unable to do is to remarry her first husband...although she was able
to be divorced...and goes a step further and says the man cannot
remarry either... Slight change in the Torah definition.
"Change Torah definition"?? You object? Child, the Talmud Sages and
the rabbis change Torah definition all the time. Torah says that a
man shall not lie with another man as with a woman, else both shall be
stoned. The Talmud states that if the person playing the part of
"woman" is a male less than nine years and a day, the man shall have
no guilt. Is that a change?
The Talmud states the adulterer shall be stoned. The Talmud states
that the wife of a heathen (gentile) can be bedded with no penalty.
Is that changing Torah?
One of the Talmud sages made it a personal goal to sample the services
of every prostitute in the world, yet he was not rebuked by the others
or said to be wrong in the recounting.
Maimonides ruled that Christians have invented their own religion and
must be beheaded as idolaters. He also ruled, like the Talmud, that
one man may have many wives. Allegedly, he found his rulings in the
Torah. Later rabbis ruled that Christians should NOT be beheaded and
Jews should marry only one wife at a time because such incidents make
for bad press for Judaism. Which "sage" was following Torah?
If you study Torah and the Prophets...there is a lot there you would
not realize unless you took that as the TRUTH and then recompared the
NT to it as the measurement for truth.
Judaism does not follow the Old "Torah." But if I am wrong, please
recite the names of all the people you personally have stoned for
violating the Sabbath as the "Torah" commands you to do.
TCross
.
|
|
| User: "Debra" |
|
| Title: Re: "The Truth of Judaism" |
24 Dec 2007 12:10:57 AM |
|
|
On Dec 23, 8:29=C2=A0pm, Terry Cross <tcros...@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Dec 23, 3:18 pm, Debra <the2goldilo...@aol.com> wrote:
On Dec 23, 1:30=EF=BF=BDpm, "Suzanne" <shil...@flash.net> wrote:
"Debra" <the2goldilo...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:b3eaef11-06cf-4bc7-852f-a28d03461541@w56g2000hsf.googlegroups.com.=
...
On Dec 22, 2:45?am, guardian Snow <snowpheo...@eck.net.au> wrote:
On Dec 22, 4:07 am, Debra <the2goldilo...@aol.com> wrote:
You know...I think Mark(Snow) has quoted that Jack Nicholson/Tom
Cruise type quote to me...I will have to go back to look over the
emails I have received a couple of months ago.
I use to use it on my profile. Now I use a Christian Slater quote
from, "Pump Up the Volume"
The truth is a virus.
:)
Shalom,
Snow
A leaf fluttered in through the window this morning, as if supported=
by the rays of the sun, a bird settled on the fire escape, joy in th=
e
task of coffee, joy accompanied me as I walked. Love never dies a
natural death. It dies because we don't know how to replenish it's
source. It dies of blindness and errors and betrayals. It dies of
illness and wounds; it dies of weariness, of witherings, of
tarnishings.
Anais Nin
The truth of the Torah is just the TRUTH.
Most just can't acknowledge it without adding to it the truth they
have been taught in addition.
Pump up the Volume...wasn't that in some pop song? Never heard of it
as a quote...What is the meaning behind it?
Debra
What do you mean by "the truth of the Torah is just the TRUTH.
Most people need to truth first. Jesus came along and gave
it meaning because the Torah is all about him.
Suzanne- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
I mean that the NT is not the truth when compared to Torah and the
Prophets...Paull is a false apostle...and the PEACE that was supposed
to happen when Messiah came hasn't yet...The NT alleged fulfillments
do not match the OT prophecies exactly...
Learned something new this week that makes sense too...The people of
the Hebrew faith never had a "custom" of releasing a prisoner as the
NT states either...It is amazing how we believe something just because
we are taught it is truth...Whether we can put it all together as
making total sense or not.
Paul was both lawful and lawless...So was Jesus...if you change
Torah...and it leads you away from following G-d's laws, commandments
precepts and ordinances...then it is not the truth... In Deuteronomy
is the test for a false prophet...There is no prophet at this point in
time who has led the world by the truth of Torah...who has joined the
two houses of Israel and Judah back together and who has ushered in
world peace exactly as Prophecy states.
G-d says he doesn't want to be worshipped as the heathen...The heathen
have the same exact story as the birth, life, resurrection, titles,
etc of Jesus...and the December 25th Christmas celebration...G-d says
HE ALONE IS SAVIOR AND THE ROCK...The NT changed that...You have to go
back and read the entire OT to see the actual prophecies...G-d says he
is ONE not that he is a trinity as the heathen gods.
Paul has 3 conversion stories in Acts and one is a quote from a play
honoring Zeus which can be shown historically...Did he stand or fall,
see or not see, hear or not hear...He and the "wintesses who were with
him who never spoke??"
Paul circumcises Timothy in Acts 16 when the rest of his epistles and
Acts 15 say it is not necessary.
Many more examples...Just two for him.
Jesus changes adultery to looking at a woman vs actually sleeping with
a married woman.
He changes a woman free through divorcement to be unable to marry
another although Torah says she can and that if she remarries and
marries another and is divorced again...The only thing she would be
unable to do is to remarry her first husband...although she was able
to be divorced...and goes a step further and says the man cannot
remarry either... Slight change in the Torah definition.
"Change Torah definition"?? =C2=A0You object? =C2=A0Child, the Talmud Sage=
s and
the rabbis change Torah definition all the time. =C2=A0Torah says that a
man shall not lie with another man as with a woman, else both shall be
stoned. =C2=A0The Talmud states that if the person playing the part of
"woman" is a male less than nine years and a day, the man shall have
no guilt. =C2=A0Is that a change?
The Talmud states the adulterer shall be stoned. =C2=A0The Talmud states
that the wife of a heathen (gentile) can be bedded with no penalty.
Is that changing Torah?
One of the Talmud sages made it a personal goal to sample the services
of every prostitute in the world, yet he was not rebuked by the others
or said to be wrong in the recounting.
Maimonides ruled that Christians have invented their own religion and
must be beheaded as idolaters. =C2=A0He also ruled, like the Talmud, that
one man may have many wives. =C2=A0Allegedly, he found his rulings in the
Torah. =C2=A0Later rabbis ruled that Christians should NOT be beheaded and=
Jews should marry only one wife at a time because such incidents make
for bad press for Judaism. =C2=A0Which "sage" was following Torah?
If you study Torah and the Prophets...there is a lot there you would
not realize unless you took that as the TRUTH and then recompared the
NT to it as the measurement for truth.
Judaism does not follow the Old "Torah." =C2=A0But if I am wrong, please
recite the names of all the people you personally have stoned for
violating the Sabbath as the "Torah" commands you to do.
TCross- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Old Lady?? Never really knew we had an age difference...apparently you
see yourself as old to see me as someone you call child... Karaite
Judaism...Different from Rabbinical...Follows Torah as written.
The true Messiah teaches TORAH as per the prophecies.
Debra
.
|
|
|
| User: "Terry Cross" |
|
| Title: Re: "The Truth of Judaism" |
24 Dec 2007 12:20:44 AM |
|
|
On Dec 23, 10:10 pm, Debra <the2goldilo...@aol.com> wrote:
On Dec 23, 8:29 pm, Terry Cross <tcros...@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Dec 23, 3:18 pm, Debra <the2goldilo...@aol.com> wrote:
On Dec 23, 1:30=EF=BF=BDpm, "Suzanne" <shil...@flash.net> wrote:
"Debra" <the2goldilo...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:b3eaef11-06cf-4bc7-852f-a28d03461541@w56g2000hsf.googlegroups.co=
m...
On Dec 22, 2:45?am, guardian Snow <snowpheo...@eck.net.au> wrote:
On Dec 22, 4:07 am, Debra <the2goldilo...@aol.com> wrote:
You know...I think Mark(Snow) has quoted that Jack Nicholson/Tom=
Cruise type quote to me...I will have to go back to look over th=
e
emails I have received a couple of months ago.
I use to use it on my profile. Now I use a Christian Slater quote
from, "Pump Up the Volume"
The truth is a virus.
:)
Shalom,
Snow
A leaf fluttered in through the window this morning, as if support=
ed
by the rays of the sun, a bird settled on the fire escape, joy in =
the
task of coffee, joy accompanied me as I walked. Love never dies a
natural death. It dies because we don't know how to replenish it's=
source. It dies of blindness and errors and betrayals. It dies of
illness and wounds; it dies of weariness, of witherings, of
tarnishings.
Anais Nin
The truth of the Torah is just the TRUTH.
Most just can't acknowledge it without adding to it the truth they
have been taught in addition.
Pump up the Volume...wasn't that in some pop song? Never heard of it=
as a quote...What is the meaning behind it?
Debra
What do you mean by "the truth of the Torah is just the TRUTH.
Most people need to truth first. Jesus came along and gave
it meaning because the Torah is all about him.
Suzanne- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
I mean that the NT is not the truth when compared to Torah and the
Prophets...Paull is a false apostle...and the PEACE that was supposed
to happen when Messiah came hasn't yet...The NT alleged fulfillments
do not match the OT prophecies exactly...
Learned something new this week that makes sense too...The people of
the Hebrew faith never had a "custom" of releasing a prisoner as the
NT states either...It is amazing how we believe something just because=
we are taught it is truth...Whether we can put it all together as
making total sense or not.
Paul was both lawful and lawless...So was Jesus...if you change
Torah...and it leads you away from following G-d's laws, commandments
precepts and ordinances...then it is not the truth... In Deuteronomy
is the test for a false prophet...There is no prophet at this point in=
time who has led the world by the truth of Torah...who has joined the
two houses of Israel and Judah back together and who has ushered in
world peace exactly as Prophecy states.
G-d says he doesn't want to be worshipped as the heathen...The heathen=
have the same exact story as the birth, life, resurrection, titles,
etc of Jesus...and the December 25th Christmas celebration...G-d says
HE ALONE IS SAVIOR AND THE ROCK...The NT changed that...You have to go=
back and read the entire OT to see the actual prophecies...G-d says he=
is ONE not that he is a trinity as the heathen gods.
Paul has 3 conversion stories in Acts and one is a quote from a play
honoring Zeus which can be shown historically...Did he stand or fall,
see or not see, hear or not hear...He and the "wintesses who were with=
him who never spoke??"
Paul circumcises Timothy in Acts 16 when the rest of his epistles and
Acts 15 say it is not necessary.
Many more examples...Just two for him.
Jesus changes adultery to looking at a woman vs actually sleeping with=
a married woman.
He changes a woman free through divorcement to be unable to marry
another although Torah says she can and that if she remarries and
marries another and is divorced again...The only thing she would be
unable to do is to remarry her first husband...although she was able
to be divorced...and goes a step further and says the man cannot
remarry either... Slight change in the Torah definition.
"Change Torah definition"?? You object? Child, the Talmud Sages and
the rabbis change Torah definition all the time. Torah says that a
man shall not lie with another man as with a woman, else both shall be
stoned. The Talmud states that if the person playing the part of
"woman" is a male less than nine years and a day, the man shall have
no guilt. Is that a change?
The Talmud states the adulterer shall be stoned. The Talmud states
that the wife of a heathen (gentile) can be bedded with no penalty.
Is that changing Torah?
One of the Talmud sages made it a personal goal to sample the services
of every prostitute in the world, yet he was not rebuked by the others
or said to be wrong in the recounting.
Maimonides ruled that Christians have invented their own religion and
must be beheaded as idolaters. He also ruled, like the Talmud, that
one man may have many wives. Allegedly, he found his rulings in the
Torah. Later rabbis ruled that Christians should NOT be beheaded and
Jews should marry only one wife at a time because such incidents make
for bad press for Judaism. Which "sage" was following Torah?
If you study Torah and the Prophets...there is a lot there you would
not realize unless you took that as the TRUTH and then recompared the
NT to it as the measurement for truth.
Judaism does not follow the Old "Torah." But if I am wrong, please
recite the names of all the people you personally have stoned for
violating the Sabbath as the "Torah" commands you to do.
TCross- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Old Lady?? Never really knew we had an age difference...apparently you
see yourself as old to see me as someone you call child... Karaite
Judaism...Different from Rabbinical...Follows Torah as written.
The true Messiah teaches TORAH as per the prophecies.
Debra
Are you saying the true Messiah will be a Karaite? Do the other
Jewish people here agree with you?
TCross
.
|
|
|
| User: "Debra" |
|
| Title: Re: "The Truth of Judaism" |
24 Dec 2007 04:37:01 PM |
|
|
On Dec 23, 10:20=C2=A0pm, Terry Cross <tcros...@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Dec 23, 10:10 pm, Debra <the2goldilo...@aol.com> wrote:
On Dec 23, 8:29 pm, Terry Cross <tcros...@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Dec 23, 3:18 pm, Debra <the2goldilo...@aol.com> wrote:
On Dec 23, 1:30=EF=BF=BDpm, "Suzanne" <shil...@flash.net> wrote:
"Debra" <the2goldilo...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:b3eaef11-06cf-4bc7-852f-a28d03461541@w56g2000hsf.googlegroups.=
com...
On Dec 22, 2:45?am, guardian Snow <snowpheo...@eck.net.au> wrote:
On Dec 22, 4:07 am, Debra <the2goldilo...@aol.com> wrote:
You know...I think Mark(Snow) has quoted that Jack Nicholson/T=
om
Cruise type quote to me...I will have to go back to look over =
the
emails I have received a couple of months ago.
I use to use it on my profile. Now I use a Christian Slater quot=
e
from, "Pump Up the Volume"
The truth is a virus.
:)
Shalom,
Snow
A leaf fluttered in through the window this morning, as if suppo=
rted
by the rays of the sun, a bird settled on the fire escape, joy i=
n the
task of coffee, joy accompanied me as I walked. Love never dies =
a
natural death. It dies because we don't know how to replenish it=
's
source. It dies of blindness and errors and betrayals. It dies o=
f
illness and wounds; it dies of weariness, of witherings, of
tarnishings.
Anais Nin
The truth of the Torah is just the TRUTH.
Most just can't acknowledge it without adding to it the truth they=
have been taught in addition.
Pump up the Volume...wasn't that in some pop song? Never heard of =
it
as a quote...What is the meaning behind it?
Debra
What do you mean by "the truth of the Torah is just the TRUTH.
Most people need to truth first. Jesus came along and gave
it meaning because the Torah is all about him.
Suzanne- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
I mean that the NT is not the truth when compared to Torah and the
Prophets...Paull is a false apostle...and the PEACE that was suppose=
d
to happen when Messiah came hasn't yet...The NT alleged fulfillments=
do not match the OT prophecies exactly...
Learned something new this week that makes sense too...The people of=
the Hebrew faith never had a "custom" of releasing a prisoner as the=
NT states either...It is amazing how we believe something just becau=
se
we are taught it is truth...Whether we can put it all together as
making total sense or not.
Paul was both lawful and lawless...So was Jesus...if you change
Torah...and it leads you away from following G-d's laws, commandment=
s
precepts and ordinances...then it is not the truth... In Deuteronomy=
is the test for a false prophet...There is no prophet at this point =
in
time who has led the world by the truth of Torah...who has joined th=
e
two houses of Israel and Judah back together and who has ushered in
world peace exactly as Prophecy states.
G-d says he doesn't want to be worshipped as the heathen...The heath=
en
have the same exact story as the birth, life, resurrection, titles,
etc of Jesus...and the December 25th Christmas celebration...G-d say=
s
HE ALONE IS SAVIOR AND THE ROCK...The NT changed that...You have to =
go
back and read the entire OT to see the actual prophecies...G-d says =
he
is ONE not that he is a trinity as the heathen gods.
Paul has 3 conversion stories in Acts and one is a quote from a play=
honoring Zeus which can be shown historically...Did he stand or fall=
,
see or not see, hear or not hear...He and the "wintesses who were wi=
th
him who never spoke??"
Paul circumcises Timothy in Acts 16 when the rest of his epistles an=
d
Acts 15 say it is not necessary.
Many more examples...Just two for him.
Jesus changes adultery to looking at a woman vs actually sleeping wi=
th
a married woman.
He changes a woman free through divorcement to be unable to marry
another although Torah says she can and that if she remarries and
marries another and is divorced again...The only thing she would be
unable to do is to remarry her first husband...although she was able=
to be divorced...and goes a step further and says the man cannot
remarry either... Slight change in the Torah definition.
"Change Torah definition"?? =C2=A0You object? =C2=A0Child, the Talmud =
Sages and
the rabbis change Torah definition all the time. =C2=A0Torah says that=
a
man shall not lie with another man as with a woman, else both shall be=
stoned. =C2=A0The Talmud states that if the person playing the part of=
"woman" is a male less than nine years and a day, the man shall have
no guilt. =C2=A0Is that a change?
The Talmud states the adulterer shall be stoned. =C2=A0The Talmud stat=
es
that the wife of a heathen (gentile) can be bedded with no penalty.
Is that changing Torah?
One of the Talmud sages made it a personal goal to sample the services=
of every prostitute in the world, yet he was not rebuked by the others=
or said to be wrong in the recounting.
Maimonides ruled that Christians have invented their own religion and
must be beheaded as idolaters. =C2=A0He also ruled, like the Talmud, t=
hat
one man may have many wives. =C2=A0Allegedly, he found his rulings in =
the
Torah. =C2=A0Later rabbis ruled that Christians should NOT be beheaded=
and
Jews should marry only one wife at a time because such incidents make
for bad press for Judaism. =C2=A0Which "sage" was following Torah?
If you study Torah and the Prophets...there is a lot there you would=
not realize unless you took that as the TRUTH and then recompared th=
e
NT to it as the measurement for truth.
Judaism does not follow the Old "Torah." =C2=A0But if I am wrong, plea=
se
recite the names of all the people you personally have stoned for
violating the Sabbath as the "Torah" commands you to do.
TCross- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Old Lady?? Never really knew we had an age difference...apparently you
see yourself as old to see me as someone you call child... Karaite
Judaism...Different from Rabbinical...Follows Torah as written.
The true Messiah teaches TORAH as per the prophecies.
Debra
Are you saying the true Messiah will be a Karaite? =C2=A0Do the other
Jewish people here agree with you?
TCross- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Well one of the reasons I lean more toward the Karaite view is because
they sight the New Moon to determine the eternal feasts YHWH commanded
them...and I have a calendar in my home where the feasts are set ahead
of time for years from the Rabbinical predictions(that does not match
Torah)...To me that does not seem to follow YHWH's commands...Whether
they agree or not I couldn't tell you...Perhaps they never thought
about it or checked it out?? The Karaites also make a point that if
the Torah was forgotten and rediscovered(as it is written in
Scripture)make the point...How could the Oral Tradition have not been
known during the time they weren't following Torah if it were
continually passed on...I find that as logical thinking...YHWH's
people do disobey him and he wants them to repent and to follow Torah
as he laid it out(these views...Rabbinical and Karaite are in
opposition)...I am also not into the Kabbala thinking because in Torah
G-d seems to forbid mysticism...I have been looking at both Rabbinical
and Karaite Judaism side by side...The Temple Institute who is
preparing for the rebuilding of the Temple does not seem to be Karaite
in belief...The Messiah is the one YHWH will send according to
prophecy...Plain and simple...there may be disagreements...but when
the time comes and YHWH judges...I am sure they will not question
him...think he is supposed to rebuke.
Debra
.
|
|
|
| User: "Terry Cross" |
|
| Title: Re: "The Truth of Judaism" |
24 Dec 2007 04:41:37 PM |
|
|
On Dec 24, 2:37 pm, Debra <the2goldilo...@aol.com> wrote:
On Dec 23, 10:20 pm, Terry Cross <tcros...@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Dec 23, 10:10 pm, Debra <the2goldilo...@aol.com> wrote:
On Dec 23, 8:29 pm, Terry Cross <tcros...@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Dec 23, 3:18 pm, Debra <the2goldilo...@aol.com> wrote:
On Dec 23, 1:30=EF=BF=BDpm, "Suzanne" <shil...@flash.net> wrote:
"Debra" <the2goldilo...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:b3eaef11-06cf-4bc7-852f-a28d03461541@w56g2000hsf.googlegroup=
s.com...
On Dec 22, 2:45?am, guardian Snow <snowpheo...@eck.net.au> wrote=
:
On Dec 22, 4:07 am, Debra <the2goldilo...@aol.com> wrote:
You know...I think Mark(Snow) has quoted that Jack Nicholson=
/Tom
Cruise type quote to me...I will have to go back to look ove=
r the
emails I have received a couple of months ago.
I use to use it on my profile. Now I use a Christian Slater qu=
ote
from, "Pump Up the Volume"
The truth is a virus.
:)
Shalom,
Snow
A leaf fluttered in through the window this morning, as if sup=
ported
by the rays of the sun, a bird settled on the fire escape, joy=
in the
task of coffee, joy accompanied me as I walked. Love never die=
s a
natural death. It dies because we don't know how to replenish =
it's
source. It dies of blindness and errors and betrayals. It dies=
of
illness and wounds; it dies of weariness, of witherings, of
tarnishings.
Anais Nin
The truth of the Torah is just the TRUTH.
Most just can't acknowledge it without adding to it the truth th=
ey
have been taught in addition.
Pump up the Volume...wasn't that in some pop song? Never heard o=
f it
as a quote...What is the meaning behind it?
Debra
What do you mean by "the truth of the Torah is just the TRUTH.
Most people need to truth first. Jesus came along and gave
it meaning because the Torah is all about him.
Suzanne- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
I mean that the NT is not the truth when compared to Torah and the=
Prophets...Paull is a false apostle...and the PEACE that was suppo=
sed
to happen when Messiah came hasn't yet...The NT alleged fulfillmen=
ts
do not match the OT prophecies exactly...
Learned something new this week that makes sense too...The people =
of
the Hebrew faith never had a "custom" of releasing a prisoner as t=
he
NT states either...It is amazing how we believe something just bec=
ause
we are taught it is truth...Whether we can put it all together as
making total sense or not.
Paul was both lawful and lawless...So was Jesus...if you change
Torah...and it leads you away from following G-d's laws, commandme=
nts
precepts and ordinances...then it is not the truth... In Deuterono=
my
is the test for a false prophet...There is no prophet at this poin=
t in
time who has led the world by the truth of Torah...who has joined =
the
two houses of Israel and Judah back together and who has ushered i=
n
world peace exactly as Prophecy states.
G-d says he doesn't want to be worshipped as the heathen...The hea=
then
have the same exact story as the birth, life, resurrection, titles=
,
etc of Jesus...and the December 25th Christmas celebration...G-d s=
ays
HE ALONE IS SAVIOR AND THE ROCK...The NT changed that...You have t=
o go
back and read the entire OT to see the actual prophecies...G-d say=
s he
is ONE not that he is a trinity as the heathen gods.
Paul has 3 conversion stories in Acts and one is a quote from a pl=
ay
honoring Zeus which can be shown historically...Did he stand or fa=
ll,
see or not see, hear or not hear...He and the "wintesses who were =
with
him who never spoke??"
Paul circumcises Timothy in Acts 16 when the rest of his epistles =
and
Acts 15 say it is not necessary.
Many more examples...Just two for him.
Jesus changes adultery to looking at a woman vs actually sleeping =
with
a married woman.
He changes a woman free through divorcement to be unable to marry
another although Torah says she can and that if she remarries and
marries another and is divorced again...The only thing she would b=
e
unable to do is to remarry her first husband...although she was ab=
le
to be divorced...and goes a step further and says the man cannot
remarry either... Slight change in the Torah definition.
"Change Torah definition"?? You object? Child, the Talmud Sages an=
d
the rabbis change Torah definition all the time. Torah says that a
man shall not lie with another man as with a woman, else both shall =
be
stoned. The Talmud states that if the person playing the part of
"woman" is a male less than nine years and a day, the man shall have=
no guilt. Is that a change?
The Talmud states the adulterer shall be stoned. The Talmud states
that the wife of a heathen (gentile) can be bedded with no penalty.
Is that changing Torah?
One of the Talmud sages made it a personal goal to sample the servic=
es
of every prostitute in the world, yet he was not rebuked by the othe=
rs
or said to be wrong in the recounting.
Maimonides ruled that Christians have invented their own religion an=
d
must be beheaded as idolaters. He also ruled, like the Talmud, that=
one man may have many wives. Allegedly, he found his rulings in the=
Torah. Later rabbis ruled that Christians should NOT be beheaded an=
d
Jews should marry only one wife at a time because such incidents mak=
e
for bad press for Judaism. Which "sage" was following Torah?
If you study Torah and the Prophets...there is a lot there you wou=
ld
not realize unless you took that as the TRUTH and then recompared =
the
NT to it as the measurement for truth.
Judaism does not follow the Old "Torah." But if I am wrong, please
recite the names of all the people you personally have stoned for
violating the Sabbath as the "Torah" commands you to do.
TCross- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Old Lady?? Never really knew we had an age difference...apparently you=
see yourself as old to see me as someone you call child... Karaite
Judaism...Different from Rabbinical...Follows Torah as written.
The true Messiah teaches TORAH as per the prophecies.
Debra
Are you saying the true Messiah will be a Karaite? Do the other
Jewish people here agree with you?
TCross- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Well one of the reasons I lean more toward the Karaite view is because
they sight the New Moon to determine the eternal feasts YHWH commanded
them...and I have a calendar in my home where the feasts are set ahead
of time for years from the Rabbinical predictions(that does not match
Torah)...To me that does not seem to follow YHWH's commands...Whether
they agree or not I couldn't tell you...Perhaps they never thought
about it or checked it out?? The Karaites also make a point that if
the Torah was forgotten and rediscovered(as it is written in
Scripture)make the point...How could the Oral Tradition have not been
known during the time they weren't following Torah if it were
continually passed on...I find that as logical thinking...YHWH's
people do disobey him and he wants them to repent and to follow Torah
as he laid it out(these views...Rabbinical and Karaite are in
opposition)...I am also not into the Kabbala thinking because in Torah
G-d seems to forbid mysticism...I have been looking at both Rabbinical
and Karaite Judaism side by side...The Temple Institute who is
preparing for the rebuilding of the Temple does not seem to be Karaite
in belief...The Messiah is the one YHWH will send according to
prophecy...Plain and simple...there may be disagreements...but when
the time comes and YHWH judges...I am sure they will not question
him...think he is supposed to rebuke.
Debra
Then I will ask you again: How many people have you personally stoned
for violating Sabbath? If you are not actively and regularly stoning
people, you are in violation of Torah. You should be stoning
idolaters, sodomites, adulterers, witches, missionaries, disobedient
children, and women who do not bleed properly on their wedding nights.
TCross
TCross
.
|
|
|
| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: "The Truth of Judaism" |
04 Jan 2008 07:51:55 AM |
|
|
On Dec 24 2007, 11:41 pm, Terry Cross <tcros...@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Dec 24, 2:37 pm, Debra <the2goldilo...@aol.com> wrote:
On Dec 23, 10:20 pm, Terry Cross <tcros...@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Dec 23, 10:10 pm, Debra <the2goldilo...@aol.com> wrote:
On Dec 23, 8:29 pm, Terry Cross <tcros...@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Dec 23, 3:18 pm, Debra <the2goldilo...@aol.com> wrote:
On Dec 23, 1:30=EF=BF=BDpm, "Suzanne" <shil...@flash.net> wrote:=
"Debra" <the2goldilo...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:b3eaef11-06cf-4bc7-852f-a28d03461541@w56g2000hsf.googlegro=
ups.com...
On Dec 22, 2:45?am, guardian Snow <snowpheo...@eck.net.au> wro=
te:
On Dec 22, 4:07 am, Debra <the2goldilo...@aol.com> wrote:
You know...I think Mark(Snow) has quoted that Jack Nichols=
on/Tom
Cruise type quote to me...I will have to go back to look o=
ver the
emails I have received a couple of months ago.
I use to use it on my profile. Now I use a Christian Slater =
quote
from, "Pump Up the Volume"
The truth is a virus.
:)
Shalom,
Snow
A leaf fluttered in through the window this morning, as if s=
upported
by the rays of the sun, a bird settled on the fire escape, j=
oy in the
task of coffee, joy accompanied me as I walked. Love never d=
ies a
natural death. It dies because we don't know how to replenis=
h it's
source. It dies of blindness and errors and betrayals. It di=
es of
illness and wounds; it dies of weariness, of witherings, of
tarnishings.
Anais Nin
The truth of the Torah is just the TRUTH.
Most just can't acknowledge it without adding to it the truth =
they
have been taught in addition.
Pump up the Volume...wasn't that in some pop song? Never heard=
of it
as a quote...What is the meaning behind it?
Debra
What do you mean by "the truth of the Torah is just the TRUTH.=
Most people need to truth first. Jesus came along and gave
it meaning because the Torah is all about him.
Suzanne- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
I mean that the NT is not the truth when compared to Torah and t=
he
Prophets...Paull is a false apostle...and the PEACE that was sup=
posed
to happen when Messiah came hasn't yet...The NT alleged fulfillm=
ents
do not match the OT prophecies exactly...
Learned something new this week that makes sense too...The peopl=
e of
the Hebrew faith never had a "custom" of releasing a prisoner as=
the
NT states either...It is amazing how we believe something just b=
ecause
we are taught it is truth...Whether we can put it all together a=
s
making total sense or not.
Paul was both lawful and lawless...So was Jesus...if you change
Torah...and it leads you away from following G-d's laws, command=
ments
precepts and ordinances...then it is not the truth... In Deutero=
nomy
is the test for a false prophet...There is no prophet at this po=
int in
time who has led the world by the truth of Torah...who has joine=
d the
two houses of Israel and Judah back together and who has ushered=
in
world peace exactly as Prophecy states.
G-d says he doesn't want to be worshipped as the heathen...The h=
eathen
have the same exact story as the birth, life, resurrection, titl=
es,
etc of Jesus...and the December 25th Christmas celebration...G-d=
says
HE ALONE IS SAVIOR AND THE ROCK...The NT changed that...You have=
to go
back and read the entire OT to see the actual prophecies...G-d s=
ays he
is ONE not that he is a trinity as the heathen gods.
Paul has 3 conversion stories in Acts and one is a quote from a =
play
honoring Zeus which can be shown historically...Did he stand or =
fall,
see or not see, hear or not hear...He and the "wintesses who wer=
e with
him who never spoke??"
Paul circumcises Timothy in Acts 16 when the rest of his epistle=
s and
Acts 15 say it is not necessary.
Many more examples...Just two for him.
Jesus changes adultery to looking at a woman vs actually sleepin=
g with
a married woman.
He changes a woman free through divorcement to be unable to marr=
y
another although Torah says she can and that if she remarries an=
d
marries another and is divorced again...The only thing she would=
be
unable to do is to remarry her first husband...although she was =
able
to be divorced...and goes a step further and says the man cannot=
remarry either... Slight change in the Torah definition.
"Change Torah definition"?? You object? Child, the Talmud Sages =
and
the rabbis change Torah definition all the time. Torah says that =
a
man shall not lie with another man as with a woman, else both shal=
l be
stoned. The Talmud states that if the person playing the part of
"woman" is a male less than nine years and a day, the man shall ha=
ve
no guilt. Is that a change?
The Talmud states the adulterer shall be stoned. The Talmud state=
s
that the wife of a heathen (gentile) can be bedded with no penalty=
..
Is that changing Torah?
One of the Talmud sages made it a personal goal to sample the serv=
ices
of every prostitute in the world, yet he was not rebuked by the ot=
hers
or said to be wrong in the recounting.
Maimonides ruled that Christians have invented their own religion =
and
must be beheaded as idolaters. He also ruled, like the Talmud, th=
at
one man may have many wives. Allegedly, he found his rulings in t=
he
Torah. Later rabbis ruled that Christians should NOT be beheaded =
and
Jews should marry only one wife at a time because such incidents m=
ake
for bad press for Judaism. Which "sage" was following Torah?
If you study Torah and the Prophets...there is a lot there you w=
ould
not realize unless you took that as the TRUTH and then recompare=
d the
NT to it as the measurement for truth.
Judaism does not follow the Old "Torah." But if I am wrong, pleas=
e
recite the names of all the people you personally have stoned for
violating the Sabbath as the "Torah" commands you to do.
TCross- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Old Lady?? Never really knew we had an age difference...apparently y=
ou
see yourself as old to see me as someone you call child... Karaite
Judaism...Different from Rabbinical...Follows Torah as written.
The true Messiah teaches TORAH as per the prophecies.
Debra
Are you saying the true Messiah will be a Karaite? Do the other
Jewish people here agree with you?
TCross- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Well one of the reasons I lean more toward the Karaite view is because
they sight the New Moon to determine the eternal feasts YHWH commanded
them...and I have a calendar in my home where the feasts are set ahead
of time for years from the Rabbinical predictions(that does not match
Torah)...To me that does not seem to follow YHWH's commands...Whether
they agree or not I couldn't tell you...Perhaps they never thought
about it or checked it out?? The Karaites also make a point that if
the Torah was forgotten and rediscovered(as it is written in
Scripture)make the point...How could the Oral Tradition have not been
known during the time they weren't following Torah if it were
continually passed on...I find that as logical thinking...YHWH's
people do disobey him and he wants them to repent and to follow Torah
as he laid it out(these views...Rabbinical and Karaite are in
opposition)...I am also not into the Kabbala thinking because in Torah
G-d seems to forbid mysticism...I have been looking at both Rabbinical
and Karaite Judaism side by side...The Temple Institute who is
preparing for the rebuilding of the Temple does not seem to be Karaite
in belief...The Messiah is the one YHWH will send according to
prophecy...Plain and simple...there may be disagreements...but when
the time comes and YHWH judges...I am sure they will not question
him...think he is supposed to rebuke.
Debra
Then I will ask you again: How many people have you personally stoned
for violating Sabbath? If you are not actively and regularly stoning
people, you are in violation of Torah. You should be stoning
idolaters, sodomites, adulterers, witches, missionaries, disobedient
children, and women who do not bleed properly on their wedding nights.
TCross
TCross
Helllo,
I'am a Philosopher in Religions and Politics (Oxford - La Sorbonne
universities).
Here is an answer to your question ;
The rules you see written in the Torah
have seldomly been applied (as The Talmud explains, "if there was an
applied sentence of death one in 70 years, the Din was called
"criminal"
- I'am not sure that China or even our so loved America can say the
same thing about
the number of people still sent to death each day by their courts).
More in depth, the rabbis themselves, guessing Torah could be
"unlivable", have created several laws thanks to the guilty person
can be punished in other ways than being stoned and replacing this way
the
risk of being stoned.
This is why Judaism doesn't have the cult of "pureness"
of the law and moreover this makes that man can debate with God
and his laws ; this is very Jewish (and this should be shared by
Christians and Muslims since Abraham made this way too
to save Sodom & Gomor)
and this explain too why there's never been something like
"Inquisition"
in the jewish history, at the contrary of the middle-age times
of christianity or in the both previous and contemporary Islam with
sharia.
This makes that judaism is intellectually and constructivly richer
than karaism.
I hope this has brought you some elements of answer
F.Daniel
.
|
|
|
| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: "The Truth of Judaism" |
04 Jan 2008 03:00:19 PM |
|
|
On 4-Jan-2008, "thesalooner@aol.com" <MYGRESEARCH@gmail.com> wrote:
Then I will ask you again: How many people have you personally stoned
for violating Sabbath? If you are not actively and regularly stoning
people, you are in violation of Torah. You should be stoning
idolaters, sodomites, adulterers, witches, missionaries, disobedient
children, and women who do not bleed properly on their wedding nights.
Except, of course, that it was never so automatic as she wishes to pretend.
TCross
TCross
Helllo,
I'am a Philosopher in Religions and Politics (Oxford - La Sorbonne
universities).
Here is an answer to your question ;
The rules you see written in the Torah
have seldomly been applied (as The Talmud explains, "if there was an
applied sentence of death one in 70 years, the Din was called
"criminal"
They were called a murdering Sanhedrin.
The rules of evidence were so strict that it was amazing & rare
for sentences to be carried out.
- I'am not sure that China or even our so loved America can say the
same thing about
the number of people still sent to death each day by their courts).
More in depth, the rabbis themselves, guessing Torah could be
"unlivable",
No, that wasn;t it.
It was livable, but they also knew that G-d really didn;t want us running
around killing each other.
have created several laws thanks to the guilty person
can be punished in other ways than being stoned and replacing this way
the risk of being stoned.
And what were these?
Or are you just referring to the other penances listed?
This is why Judaism doesn't have the cult of "pureness"
of the law and moreover this makes that man can debate with God
and his laws
Torah extolls those who did.
; this is very Jewish (and this should be shared by
Christians and Muslims since Abraham made this way too
to save Sodom & Gomor)
Exactly.
Susan
and this explain too why there's never been something like
"Inquisition"
in the jewish history, at the contrary of the middle-age times
of christianity or in the both previous and contemporary Islam with
sharia.
This makes that judaism is intellectually and constructivly richer
than karaism.
I hope this has brought you some elements of answer
F.Daniel
.
|
|
|
| User: "Terry Cross" |
|
| Title: Re: "The Truth of Judaism" |
04 Jan 2008 10:33:06 PM |
|
|
On Jan 4, 1:00 pm, wrote:
On 4-Jan-2008, "thesaloo...@aol.com" <MYGRESEA...@gmail.com> wrote:
Then I will ask you again: How many people have you personally stoned
for violating Sabbath? If you are not actively and regularly stoning
people, you are in violation of Torah. You should be stoning
idolaters, sodomites, adulterers, witches, missionaries, disobedient
children, and women who do not bleed properly on their wedding nights.
Except, of course, that it was never so automatic as she wishes to pretend.
TCross
"Never?" I don't have to pretend. Read the "Torah" as written - a
man gathers firewood for his family on the Sabbath, he's reported by
the local nosy neighbors, and he is taken out and stoned to death.
A boy "blasphemes" against Jehovah, somebody rats on him, and bingo!
He makes a trip to the gravel pit, never to return.
Helllo,
I'am a Philosopher in Religions and Politics (Oxford - La Sorbonne
universities).
Here is an answer to your question ;
The rules you see written in the Torah
have seldomly been applied (as The Talmud explains, "if there was an
applied sentence of death one in 70 years, the Din was called
"criminal"
They were called a murdering Sanhedrin.
The rules of evidence were so strict that it was amazing & rare
for sentences to be carried out.
That is the rabbinical tradition, as you read in the Talmud, written
some 800 years after the Torah was written. Those rabbis would know
as much about that society through "oral tradition" as any of us know
about Robin Hood. And they would know less about Moses (outside of
the written Torah) than any of us know about King Arthur.
- I'am not sure that China or even our so loved America can say the
same thing about
the number of people still sent to death each day by their courts).
More in depth, the rabbis themselves, guessing Torah could be
"unlivable",
No, that wasn;t it.
It was livable, but they also knew that G-d really didn;t want us running
around killing each other.
That is silly. Unless you want to regale us with your tales of past
lives, you could know nothing about what "they knew" except what you
have been told - and your source the same back through twenty five
centuries.
And if they all misrepresented and embroidered as heavily as you do,
it would not take but three retellings before the truth would be
completely lost.
TCross
.
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Terry Cross" |
|
| Title: Re: "The Truth of Judaism" |
04 Jan 2008 09:07:10 AM |
|
|
On Jan 4, 5:51 am, "thesaloo...@aol.com" <MYGRESEA...@gmail.com>
wrote:
On Dec 24 2007, 11:41 pm, Terry Cross <tcros...@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Dec 24, 2:37 pm, Debra <the2goldilo...@aol.com> wrote:
On Dec 23, 10:20 pm, Terry Cross <tcros...@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Dec 23, 10:10 pm, Debra <the2goldilo...@aol.com> wrote:
On Dec 23, 8:29 pm, Terry Cross <tcros...@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Dec 23, 3:18 pm, Debra <the2goldilo...@aol.com> wrote:
On Dec 23, 1:30=EF=BF=BDpm, "Suzanne" <shil...@flash.net> wrot=
e:
"Debra" <the2goldilo...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:b3eaef11-06cf-4bc7-852f-a28d03461541@w56g2000hsf.googleg=
roups.com...
On Dec 22, 2:45?am, guardian Snow <snowpheo...@eck.net.au> w=
rote:
On Dec 22, 4:07 am, Debra <the2goldilo...@aol.com> wrote:
You know...I think Mark(Snow) has quoted that Jack Nicho=
lson/Tom
Cruise type quote to me...I will have to go back to look=
over the
emails I have received a couple of months ago.
I use to use it on my profile. Now I use a Christian Slate=
r quote
from, "Pump Up the Volume"
The truth is a virus.
:)
Shalom,
Snow
A leaf fluttered in through the window this morning, as if=
supported
by the rays of the sun, a bird settled on the fire escape,=
joy in the
task of coffee, joy accompanied me as I walked. Love never=
dies a
natural death. It dies because we don't know how to replen=
ish it's
source. It dies of blindness and errors and betrayals. It =
dies of
illness and wounds; it dies of weariness, of witherings, o=
f
tarnishings.
Anais Nin
The truth of the Torah is just the TRUTH.
Most just can't acknowledge it without adding to it the trut=
h they
have been taught in addition.
Pump up the Volume...wasn't that in some pop song? Never hea=
rd of it
as a quote...What is the meaning behind it?
Debra
What do you mean by "the truth of the Torah is just the TRUT=
H.
Most people need to truth first. Jesus came along and gave
it meaning because the Torah is all about him.
Suzanne- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
I mean that the NT is not the truth when compared to Torah and=
the
Prophets...Paull is a false apostle...and the PEACE that was s=
upposed
to happen when Messiah came hasn't yet...The NT alleged fulfil=
lments
do not match the OT prophecies exactly...
Learned something new this week that makes sense too...The peo=
ple of
the Hebrew faith never had a "custom" of releasing a prisoner =
as the
NT states either...It is amazing how we believe something just=
because
we are taught it is truth...Whether we can put it all together=
as
making total sense or not.
Paul was both lawful and lawless...So was Jesus...if you chang=
e
Torah...and it leads you away from following G-d's laws, comma=
ndments
precepts and ordinances...then it is not the truth... In Deute=
ronomy
is the test for a false prophet...There is no prophet at this =
point in
time who has led the world by the truth of Torah...who has joi=
ned the
two houses of Israel and Judah back together and who has usher=
ed in
world peace exactly as Prophecy states.
G-d says he doesn't want to be worshipped as the heathen...The=
heathen
have the same exact story as the birth, life, resurrection, ti=
tles,
etc of Jesus...and the December 25th Christmas celebration...G=
-d says
HE ALONE IS SAVIOR AND THE ROCK...The NT changed that...You ha=
ve to go
back and read the entire OT to see the actual prophecies...G-d=
says he
is ONE not that he is a trinity as the heathen gods.
Paul has 3 conversion stories in Acts and one is a quote from =
a play
honoring Zeus which can be shown historically...Did he stand o=
r fall,
see or not see, hear or not hear...He and the "wintesses who w=
ere with
him who never spoke??"
Paul circumcises Timothy in Acts 16 when the rest of his epist=
les and
Acts 15 say it is not necessary.
Many more examples...Just two for him.
Jesus changes adultery to looking at a woman vs actually sleep=
ing with
a married woman.
He changes a woman free through divorcement to be unable to ma=
rry
another although Torah says she can and that if she remarries =
and
marries another and is divorced again...The only thing she wou=
ld be
unable to do is to remarry her first husband...although she wa=
s able
to be divorced...and goes a step further and says the man cann=
ot
remarry either... Slight change in the Torah definition.
"Change Torah definition"?? You object? Child, the Talmud Sage=
s and
the rabbis change Torah definition all the time. Torah says tha=
t a
man shall not lie with another man as with a woman, else both sh=
all be
stoned. The Talmud states that if the person playing the part o=
f
"woman" is a male less than nine years and a day, the man shall =
have
no guilt. Is that a change?
The Talmud states the adulterer shall be stoned. The Talmud sta=
tes
that the wife of a heathen (gentile) can be bedded with no penal=
ty.
Is that changing Torah?
One of the Talmud sages made it a personal goal to sample the se=
rvices
of every prostitute in the world, yet he was not rebuked by the =
others
or said to be wrong in the recounting.
Maimonides ruled that Christians have invented their own religio=
n and
must be beheaded as idolaters. He also ruled, like the Talmud, =
that
one man may have many wives. Allegedly, he found his rulings in=
the
Torah. Later rabbis ruled that Christians should NOT be beheade=
d and
Jews should marry only one wife at a time because such incidents=
make
for bad press for Judaism. Which "sage" was following Torah?
If you study Torah and the Prophets...there is a lot there you=
would
not realize unless you took that as the TRUTH and then recompa=
red the
NT to it as the measurement for truth.
Judaism does not follow the Old "Torah." But if I am wrong, ple=
ase
recite the names of all the people you personally have stoned fo=
r
violating the Sabbath as the "Torah" commands you to do.
TCross- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Old Lady?? Never really knew we had an age difference...apparently=
you
see yourself as old to see me as someone you call child... Karaite=
Judaism...Different from Rabbinical...Follows Torah as written.
The true Messiah teaches TORAH as per the prophecies.
Debra
Are you saying the true Messiah will be a Karaite? Do the other
Jewish people here agree with you?
TCross- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Well one of the reasons I lean more toward the Karaite view is because=
they sight the New Moon to determine the eternal feasts YHWH commanded=
them...and I have a calendar in my home where the feasts are set ahead=
of time for years from the Rabbinical predictions(that does not match
Torah)...To me that does not seem to follow YHWH's commands...Whether
they agree or not I couldn't tell you...Perhaps they never thought
about it or checked it out?? The Karaites also make a point that if
the Torah was forgotten and rediscovered(as it is written in
Scripture)make the point...How could the Oral Tradition have not been
known during the time they weren't following Torah if it were
continually passed on...I find that as logical thinking...YHWH's
people do disobey him and he wants them to repent and to follow Torah
as he laid it out(these views...Rabbinical and Karaite are in
opposition)...I am also not into the Kabbala thinking because in Torah=
G-d seems to forbid mysticism...I have been looking at both Rabbinical=
and Karaite Judaism side by side...The Temple Institute who is
preparing for the rebuilding of the Temple does not seem to be Karaite=
in belief...The Messiah is the one YHWH will send according to
prophecy...Plain and simple...there may be disagreements...but when
the time comes and YHWH judges...I am sure they will not question
him...think he is supposed to rebuke.
Debra
Then I will ask you again: How many people have you personally stoned
for violating Sabbath? If you are not actively and regularly stoning
people, you are in violation of Torah. You should be stoning
idolaters, sodomites, adulterers, witches, missionaries, disobedient
children, and women who do not bleed properly on their wedding nights.
TCross
TCross
Helllo,
I'am a Philosopher in Religions and Politics (Oxford - La Sorbonne
universities).
Here is an answer to your question ;
The rules you see written in the Torah
have seldomly been applied (as The Talmud explains, "if there was an
applied sentence of death one in 70 years, the Din was called
"criminal"
That statement does not meet with the record in the New Testament.
The Beth Din had no trouble sentencing Stephen to be stoned.
TCross
.
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Debra" |
|
| Title: Re: "The Truth of Judaism" |
24 Dec 2007 06:34:48 PM |
|
|
On Dec 24, 2:41=C2=A0pm, Terry Cross <tcros...@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Dec 24, 2:37 pm, Debra <the2goldilo...@aol.com> wrote:
On Dec 23, 10:20 pm, Terry Cross <tcros...@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Dec 23, 10:10 pm, Debra <the2goldilo...@aol.com> wrote:
On Dec 23, 8:29 pm, Terry Cross <tcros...@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Dec 23, 3:18 pm, Debra <the2goldilo...@aol.com> wrote:
On Dec 23, 1:30=EF=BF=BDpm, "Suzanne" <shil...@flash.net> wrote:=
"Debra" <the2goldilo...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:b3eaef11-06cf-4bc7-852f-a28d03461541@w56g2000hsf.googlegro=
ups.com...
On Dec 22, 2:45?am, guardian Snow <snowpheo...@eck.net.au> wro=
te:
On Dec 22, 4:07 am, Debra <the2goldilo...@aol.com> wrote:
You know...I think Mark(Snow) has quoted that Jack Nichols=
on/Tom
Cruise type quote to me...I will have to go back to look o=
ver the
emails I have received a couple of months ago.
I use to use it on my profile. Now I use a Christian Slater =
quote
from, "Pump Up the Volume"
The truth is a virus.
:)
Shalom,
Snow
A leaf fluttered in through the window this morning, as if s=
upported
by the rays of the sun, a bird settled on the fire escape, j=
oy in the
task of coffee, joy accompanied me as I walked. Love never d=
ies a
natural death. It dies because we don't know how to replenis=
h it's
source. It dies of blindness and errors and betrayals. It di=
es of
illness and wounds; it dies of weariness, of witherings, of
tarnishings.
Anais Nin
The truth of the Torah is just the TRUTH.
Most just can't acknowledge it without adding to it the truth =
they
have been taught in addition.
Pump up the Volume...wasn't that in some pop song? Never heard=
of it
as a quote...What is the meaning behind it?
Debra
What do you mean by "the truth of the Torah is just the TRUTH.=
Most people need to truth first. Jesus came along and gave
it meaning because the Torah is all about him.
Suzanne- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
I mean that the NT is not the truth when compared to Torah and t=
he
Prophets...Paull is a false apostle...and the PEACE that was sup=
posed
to happen when Messiah came hasn't yet...The NT alleged fulfillm=
ents
do not match the OT prophecies exactly...
Learned something new this week that makes sense too...The peopl=
e of
the Hebrew faith never had a "custom" of releasing a prisoner as=
the
NT states either...It is amazing how we believe something just b=
ecause
we are taught it is truth...Whether we can put it all together a=
s
making total sense or not.
Paul was both lawful and lawless...So was Jesus...if you change
Torah...and it leads you away from following G-d's laws, command=
ments
precepts and ordinances...then it is not the truth... In Deutero=
nomy
is the test for a false prophet...There is no prophet at this po=
int in
time who has led the world by the truth of Torah...who has joine=
d the
two houses of Israel and Judah back together and who has ushered=
in
world peace exactly as Prophecy states.
G-d says he doesn't want to be worshipped as the heathen...The h=
eathen
have the same exact story as the birth, life, resurrection, titl=
es,
etc of Jesus...and the December 25th Christmas celebration...G-d=
says
HE ALONE IS SAVIOR AND THE ROCK...The NT changed that...You have=
to go
back and read the entire OT to see the actual prophecies...G-d s=
ays he
is ONE not that he is a trinity as the heathen gods.
Paul has 3 conversion stories in Acts and one is a quote from a =
play
honoring Zeus which can be shown historically...Did he stand or =
fall,
see or not see, hear or not hear...He and the "wintesses who wer=
e with
him who never spoke??"
Paul circumcises Timothy in Acts 16 when the rest of his epistle=
s and
Acts 15 say it is not necessary.
Many more examples...Just two for him.
Jesus changes adultery to looking at a woman vs actually sleepin=
g with
a married woman.
He changes a woman free through divorcement to be unable to marr=
y
another although Torah says she can and that if she remarries an=
d
marries another and is divorced again...The only thing she would=
be
unable to do is to remarry her first husband...although she was =
able
to be divorced...and goes a step further and says the man cannot=
remarry either... Slight change in the Torah definition.
"Change Torah definition"?? =C2=A0You object? =C2=A0Child, the Tal=
mud Sages and
the rabbis change Torah definition all the time. =C2=A0Torah says =
that a
man shall not lie with another man as with a woman, else both shal=
l be
stoned. =C2=A0The Talmud states that if the person playing the par=
t of
"woman" is a male less than nine years and a day, the man shall ha=
ve
no guilt. =C2=A0Is that a change?
The Talmud states the adulterer shall be stoned. =C2=A0The Talmud =
states
that the wife of a heathen (gentile) can be bedded with no penalty=
..
Is that changing Torah?
One of the Talmud sages made it a personal goal to sample the serv=
ices
of every prostitute in the world, yet he was not rebuked by the ot=
hers
or said to be wrong in the recounting.
Maimonides ruled that Christians have invented their own religion =
and
must be beheaded as idolaters. =C2=A0He also ruled, like the Talmu=
d, that
one man may have many wives. =C2=A0Allegedly, he found his rulings=
in the
Torah. =C2=A0Later rabbis ruled that Christians should NOT be behe=
aded and
Jews should marry only one wife at a time because such incidents m=
ake
for bad press for Judaism. =C2=A0Which "sage" was following Torah?=
If you study Torah and the Prophets...there is a lot there you w=
ould
not realize unless you took that as the TRUTH and then recompare=
d the
NT to it as the measurement for truth.
Judaism does not follow the Old "Torah." =C2=A0But if I am wrong, =
please
recite the names of all the people you personally have stoned for
violating the Sabbath as the "Torah" commands you to do.
TCross- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Old Lady?? Never really knew we had an age difference...apparently y=
ou
see yourself as old to see me as someone you call child... Karaite
Judaism...Different from Rabbinical...Follows Torah as written.
The true Messiah teaches TORAH as per the prophecies.
Debra
Are you saying the true Messiah will be a Karaite? =C2=A0Do the other
Jewish people here agree with you?
TCross- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Well one of the reasons I lean more toward the Karaite view is because
they sight the New Moon to determine the eternal feasts YHWH commanded
them...and I have a calendar in my home where the feasts are set ahead
of time for years from the Rabbinical predictions(that does not match
Torah)...To me that does not seem to follow YHWH's commands...Whether
they agree or not I couldn't tell you...Perhaps they never thought
about it or checked it out?? The Karaites also make a point that if
the Torah was forgotten and rediscovered(as it is written in
Scripture)make the point...How could the Oral Tradition have not been
known during the time they weren't following Torah if it were
continually passed on...I find that as logical thinking...YHWH's
people do disobey him and he wants them to repent and to follow Torah
as he laid it out(these views...Rabbinical and Karaite are in
opposition)...I am also not into the Kabbala thinking because in Torah
G-d seems to forbid mysticism...I have been looking at both Rabbinical
and Karaite Judaism side by side...The Temple Institute who is
preparing for the rebuilding of the Temple does not seem to be Karaite
in belief...The Messiah is the one YHWH will send according to
prophecy...Plain and simple...there may be disagreements...but when
the time comes and YHWH judges...I am sure they will not question
him...think he is supposed to rebuke.
Debra
Then I will ask you again: =C2=A0How many people have you personally stone=
d
for violating Sabbath? =C2=A0If you are not actively and regularly stoning=
people, you are in violation of Torah. =C2=A0You should be stoning
idolaters, sodomites, adulterers, witches, missionaries, disobedient
children, and women who do not bleed properly on their wedding nights.
TCross
TCross- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Are we in the land?? When we are in the land and living with Torah
perfectly on our hearts... Will there be a need to stone lifted?...We
do not live in Israel with the Temple standing and some of the Torah
cannot be implemented...Amazingly...YHWH is allowing for us to live by
the laws of the lands...Just think...What would life be like if we did
stone people breaking Torah...Wouldn't life be more peaceful all the
way around the world???
I used to not believe in the death penalty...but YHWH invented it.
How many people have you personally pointed toward obedience to YHWH??
Have you repented??
Debra
.
|
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|
| User: "Terry Cross" |
|
| Title: Re: "The Truth of Judaism" |
24 Dec 2007 07:01:14 PM |
|
|
On Dec 24, 4:34 pm, Debra <the2goldilo...@aol.com> wrote:
On Dec 24, 2:41 pm, Terry Cross <tcros...@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Dec 24, 2:37 pm, Debra <the2goldilo...@aol.com> wrote:
On Dec 23, 10:20 pm, Terry Cross <tcros...@hotmail.com> wrote:
Well one of the reasons I lean more toward the Karaite view is because
they sight the New Moon to determine the eternal feasts YHWH commanded
them...and I have a calendar in my home where the feasts are set ahead
of time for years from the Rabbinical predictions(that does not match
Torah)...To me that does not seem to follow YHWH's commands...Whether
they agree or not I couldn't tell you...Perhaps they never thought
about it or checked it out?? The Karaites also make a point that if
the Torah was forgotten and rediscovered(as it is written in
Scripture)make the point...How could the Oral Tradition have not been
known during the time they weren't following Torah if it were
continually passed on...I find that as logical thinking...YHWH's
people do disobey him and he wants them to repent and to follow Torah
as he laid it out(these views...Rabbinical and Karaite are in
opposition)...I am also not into the Kabbala thinking because in Torah
G-d seems to forbid mysticism...I have been looking at both Rabbinical
and Karaite Judaism side by side...The Temple Institute who is
preparing for the rebuilding of the Temple does not seem to be Karaite
in belief...The Messiah is the one YHWH will send according to
prophecy...Plain and simple...there may be disagreements...but when
the time comes and YHWH judges...I am sure they will not question
him...think he is supposed to rebuke.
Debra
Then I will ask you again: How many people have you personally stoned
for violating Sabbath? If you are not actively and regularly stoning
people, you are in violation of Torah. You should be stoning
idolaters, sodomites, adulterers, witches, missionaries, disobedient
children, and women who do not bleed properly on their wedding nights.
TCross
Are we in the land?? When we are in the land and living with Torah
perfectly on our hearts... Will there be a need to stone lifted?...We
do not live in Israel with the Temple standing and some of the Torah
cannot be implemented...
That condition is a rabbinical invention. The Torah has no such
requirement. The Hebrews were commanded to stone each other long
before they arrived in Israel and the Temple was built.
Amazingly...YHWH is allowing for us to live by
the laws of the lands...
That is another rabbinical invention. Aren't you ashamed to be
changing Torah?
Just think...What would life be like if we did
stone people breaking Torah...Wouldn't life be more peaceful all the
way around the world???
Peaceful like a graveyard - except for the multiple stonings every
day, cleaning up the bodies and the rocks, and trying to pretend your
dead friends and relatives were really guilty so you don't get stoned,
too. Personally, I do not favor the vision.
I used to not believe in the death penalty...but YHWH invented it.
Yahway also invented racial extermination of Gentiles. That one kind
of came back to bite the Jews, didn't it?
How many people have you personally pointed toward obedience to YHWH??
Have you repented??
How many question marks are required for each question?
If the stoning laws are not applicable outside Israel, who forbids
murder and adultery?
TCross
.
|
|
|
| User: "Debra" |
|
| Title: Re: "The Truth of Judaism" |
25 Dec 2007 01:52:45 PM |
|
|
On Dec 24, 5:01=EF=BF=BDpm, Terry Cross <tcros...@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Dec 24, 4:34 pm, Debra <the2goldilo...@aol.com> wrote:
On Dec 24, 2:41 pm, Terry Cross <tcros...@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Dec 24, 2:37 pm, Debra <the2goldilo...@aol.com> wrote:
On Dec 23, 10:20 pm, Terry Cross <tcros...@hotmail.com> wrote:
Well one of the reasons I lean more toward the Karaite view is becau=
se
they sight the New Moon to determine the eternal feasts YHWH command=
ed
them...and I have a calendar in my home where the feasts are set ahe=
ad
of time for years from the Rabbinical predictions(that does not matc=
h
Torah)...To me that does not seem to follow YHWH's commands...Whethe=
r
they agree or not I couldn't tell you...Perhaps they never thought
about it or checked it out?? The Karaites also make a point that if
the Torah was forgotten and rediscovered(as it is written in
Scripture)make the point...How could the Oral Tradition have not bee=
n
known during the time they weren't following Torah if it were
continually passed on...I find that as logical thinking...YHWH's
people do disobey him and he wants them to repent and to follow Tora=
h
as he laid it out(these views...Rabbinical and Karaite are in
opposition)...I am also not into the Kabbala thinking because in Tor=
ah
G-d seems to forbid mysticism...I have been looking at both Rabbinic=
al
and Karaite Judaism side by side...The Temple Institute who is
preparing for the rebuilding of the Temple does not seem to be Karai=
te
in belief...The Messiah is the one YHWH will send according to
prophecy...Plain and simple...there may be disagreements...but when
the time comes and YHWH judges...I am sure they will not question
him...think he is supposed to rebuke.
Debra
Then I will ask you again: =EF=BF=BDHow many people have you personall=
y stoned
for violating Sabbath? =EF=BF=BDIf you are not actively and regularly =
stoning
people, you are in violation of Torah. =EF=BF=BDYou should be stoning
idolaters, sodomites, adulterers, witches, missionaries, disobedient
children, and women who do not bleed properly on their wedding nights.=
TCross
Are we in the land?? When we are in the land and living with Torah
perfectly on our hearts... Will there be a need to stone lifted?...We
do not live in Israel with the Temple standing and some of the Torah
cannot be implemented...
That condition is a rabbinical invention. =EF=BF=BDThe Torah has no such
requirement. =EF=BF=BDThe Hebrews were commanded to stone each other long
before they arrived in Israel and the Temple was built.
Amazingly...YHWH is allowing for us to live by
the laws of the lands...
That is another rabbinical invention. =EF=BF=BDAren't you ashamed to be
changing Torah?
Just think...What would life be like if we did
stone people breaking Torah...Wouldn't life be more peaceful all the
way around the world???
Peaceful like a graveyard - except for the multiple stonings every
day, cleaning up the bodies and the rocks, and trying to pretend your
dead friends and relatives were really guilty so you don't get stoned,
too. =EF=BF=BDPersonally, I do not favor the vision.
I used to not believe in the death penalty...but YHWH invented it.
Yahway also invented racial extermination of Gentiles. =EF=BF=BDThat one k=
ind
of came back to bite the Jews, didn't it?
How many people have you personally pointed toward obedience to YHWH??
Have you repented??
How many question marks are required for each question?
If the stoning laws are not applicable outside Israel, who forbids
murder and adultery?
TCross- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Does Terry Cross stone people??
Debra
.
|
|
|
| User: "Terry Cross" |
|
| Title: Re: "The Truth of Judaism" |
25 Dec 2007 08:14:56 PM |
|
|
On Dec 25, 11:52 am, Debra <the2goldilo...@aol.com> wrote:
On Dec 24, 5:01=EF=BF=BDpm, Terry Cross <tcros...@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Dec 24, 4:34 pm, Debra <the2goldilo...@aol.com> wrote:
On Dec 24, 2:41 pm, Terry Cross <tcros...@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Dec 24, 2:37 pm, Debra <the2goldilo...@aol.com> wrote:
On Dec 23, 10:20 pm, Terry Cross <tcros...@hotmail.com> wrote:
Well one of the reasons I lean more toward the Karaite view is bec=
ause
they sight the New Moon to determine the eternal feasts YHWH comma=
nded
them...and I have a calendar in my home where the feasts are set a=
head
of time for years from the Rabbinical predictions(that does not ma=
tch
Torah)...To me that does not seem to follow YHWH's commands...Whet=
her
they agree or not I couldn't tell you...Perhaps they never thought=
about it or checked it out?? The Karaites also make a point that i=
f
the Torah was forgotten and rediscovered(as it is written in
Scripture)make the point...How could the Oral Tradition have not b=
een
known during the time they weren't following Torah if it were
continually passed on...I find that as logical thinking...YHWH's
people do disobey him and he wants them to repent and to follow To=
rah
as he laid it out(these views...Rabbinical and Karaite are in
opposition)...I am also not into the Kabbala thinking because in T=
orah
G-d seems to forbid mysticism...I have been looking at both Rabbin=
ical
and Karaite Judaism side by side...The Temple Institute who is
preparing for the rebuilding of the Temple does not seem to be Kar=
aite
in belief...The Messiah is the one YHWH will send according to
prophecy...Plain and simple...there may be disagreements...but whe=
n
the time comes and YHWH judges...I am sure they will not question
him...think he is supposed to rebuke.
Debra
Then I will ask you again: How many people have you personally stone=
d
for violating Sabbath? If you are not actively and regularly stonin=
g
people, you are in violation of Torah. You should be stoning
idolaters, sodomites, adulterers, witches, missionaries, disobedient=
children, and women who do not bleed properly on their wedding night=
s.
TCross
Are we in the land?? When we are in the land and living with Torah
perfectly on our hearts... Will there be a need to stone lifted?...We
do not live in Israel with the Temple standing and some of the Torah
cannot be implemented...
That condition is a rabbinical invention. The Torah has no such
requirement. The Hebrews were commanded to stone each other long
before they arrived in Israel and the Temple was built.
Amazingly...YHWH is allowing for us to live by
the laws of the lands...
That is another rabbinical invention. =EF=BF=BDAren't you ash | | | | | | | | |
