| Topic: |
Religions > Bible |
| User: |
"Terry Cross" |
| Date: |
09 Dec 2007 10:15:22 PM |
| Object: |
Re: the validity of miracles |
On Dec 9, 7:47 pm, "randy" <rkl...@wavecable.com> wrote:
I notice that in games and in television/movies there is a
great current interest in magic and in
fantasy/myth/demons/vampires, etc. So the question I'm
asking is, How can myths sell in our modern scientific
world, when there seems to be no basis for such things? What
I'm really asking is, Is it possible that similar things
really do exist, and that these things serve as a type of
allegory for these kinds of other world realities?
In movie-making, plots and acts don't really work well
unless they are "valid." This means that if the hero runs
through the street killing people gleefully, all the while
saving babies and helpless children, we're dealing with
something that is weird, and it won't sell. If the laws of
gravity aren't used uniformly in a picture, the movie would
be viewed as so absurd that nobody would want to view it.
But when we have myths, good and evil mythologies of angels
and demons, and magical occurrences that violate what we
would normally view as the scientific view of the universe,
how can such movies obtain "validity?" Why does it therefore
sell?
I suggest that there is another supernatural world of angels
and demons, and there really is a miracle-working God. Thus,
these fantasy scenarios really do suggest reality that
exists in our subconscious mind. We do have a vague concept
of faith in God, even while we claim to hold to the
"scientific" view of the universe.
randy
Perhaps. But I would suggest first that the scientific view is
limited to certain environments and certain sectors of the populace.
In Huxley's "Brave New World," certain people were bred to join the
worker class, others to join the servant class, and others the ruling
class. In just that way, our "leaders" have recognized that we can't
all be chiefs, and it is no good training the latrine workers to be
chiefs and generals. There is a natural order to the roles in life,
and it is the duty of the architects of society to "help" those
natural roles work themselves out.
Fifteen years ago, it was difficult to avoid mention of angels.
Posters, figurines, mementos, TeeVee, movies, magazines, ... You'd
think the whole culture had slid sideways.
Thirty years ago the buzz was all about Astrology. Now it is all
about magic and enchantments. Part of it is entertainment, part is
wandering interest of the ultra-bored, but a big part of the picture
is the cauldrons of our media machines, which seem to have a shared
planning department, both corporate and content. Insiders will tell
you that you don't get into the design of entertainment vehicles until
invited.
The central planners seem to be searching for a mythology that will
catch the public's attention and hold it away from the doings of the
central planners. If the peasants can blame their higher taxes, wars,
and ruined environment on astrology charts, angels, or spells and
magic, so much the better. At least they won't be bringing a torch to
the White House lawn to demand a loaf of bread. They will be too
confused.
I do not discount completely a non-physical aspect of events, where
causes are more than sun spots, moon orbit perturbations, and the Gulf
Stream. But I suggest you watch where the causative influences are
working and where they first become visible. Who first re-introduced
vampires? Where did the pseudo-Judaism of the "The Force" in Star
Wars come from? Is it your housewife or auto mechanic who talks
magic, or is it your TeeVee and movie plots?
Grass-roots ideas begin truly at the grass roots. Injected ideas
begin at the point of injection. Where do these ideas start?
TCross
.
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| User: "randy" |
|
| Title: Re: the validity of miracles |
10 Dec 2007 02:41:36 AM |
|
|
"Terry Cross"
"randy"
I suggest that there is another supernatural world of
angels
and demons, and there really is a miracle-working God.
Thus,
these fantasy scenarios really do suggest reality that
exists in our subconscious mind. We do have a vague
concept
of faith in God, even while we claim to hold to the
"scientific" view of the universe.
Perhaps. But I would suggest first that the scientific
view is
limited to certain environments and certain sectors of the
populace.
In Huxley's "Brave New World," certain people were bred to
join the
worker class, others to join the servant class, and others
the ruling
class. In just that way, our "leaders" have recognized
that we can't
all be chiefs, and it is no good training the latrine
workers to be
chiefs and generals. There is a natural order to the
roles in life,
and it is the duty of the architects of society to "help"
those
natural roles work themselves out.
Actually, I do agree in an orderly society--just one with
checks and balances and equal education for all.
Fifteen years ago, it was difficult to avoid mention of
angels...
Thirty years ago the buzz was all about Astrology. Now it
is all
about magic and enchantments. Part of it is
entertainment, part is
wandering interest of the ultra-bored, but a big part of
the picture
is the cauldrons of our media machines, which seem to have
a shared
planning department, both corporate and content. Insiders
will tell
you that you don't get into the design of entertainment
vehicles until
invited.
I certainly don't believe the entertainment "elite" get
their ideas in a vacuum. I remember the Christian thinker
Francis Schaeffer had a model for the evolution of culture.
It all began with philosophers. Their ideas after a time
came to be reflected in the arts, in paintings and in music.
Ultimately, the ideas that began with the philosophers
became a part of popular thought and formed the basis for
moral ideas.
I personally believe that intellectual thought is determined
by God and His prophetic purpose. Intellectuals simply pick
up these ideas, since they are the beginning point at which
prophetic fulfillment begins to take root in the world.
For example, God's first commandment to man was "fill the
earth and multiply." And so, in every generation there have
been politicians who have organized society into cohesive
self-sufficient units, delegating authority to military and
economic interests to preserve and expand the society. And
there have been leaders in technological advancement, whose
purpose has been to streamline the exchange of needed goods
and services so that billions can survive in an increasingly
dependant world.
But an essential part of God's purposes have been
redemptive, to bring mankind back from self-destruction to
the spirituality and life of God Himself. And so there have
been religious leaders, whose purpose has been to instill a
moral consciousness in society and to teach dogmas that
unite God and man in a real relationship producing real
moral values.
Schaeffer felt that with the loss of Christian dogma there
is a loss of belief. The result is either an escape into
meaningless mysticism or into a world where human beings are
no better than machines. The "fantasy" and "myth" in
entertainemtn today seems to be part of that "meaningless
mysticism" that the world is looking for, a kind of escapist
entertainment. The entertainment elite simply pick up on the
societal cry for escape, in a world that is losing its
values and facing self-destruction on a mass scale.
...Grass-roots ideas begin truly at the grass roots.
Injected ideas
begin at the point of injection. Where do these ideas
start?
With God.
randy
.
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|
| User: "Shephdd" |
|
| Title: Re: the validity of miracles |
10 Dec 2007 07:48:56 PM |
|
|
Hi Randy, the fact is that the media is Satans number one instrument of
deception. People are being influenced to accept the wickedness of the Anti
Christ whos coming is not far away. Please read 2nd Thesalonians 2:7-12
Bless the L-RD Yakov
"randy" <rkluth@wavecable.com> wrote in message
news:zZ-dnczlstFeZsHanZ2dnUVZ_tGonZ2d@wavecable.com...
"Terry Cross"
"randy"
I suggest that there is another supernatural world of angels
and demons, and there really is a miracle-working God. Thus,
these fantasy scenarios really do suggest reality that
exists in our subconscious mind. We do have a vague concept
of faith in God, even while we claim to hold to the
"scientific" view of the universe.
Perhaps. But I would suggest first that the scientific view is
limited to certain environments and certain sectors of the populace.
In Huxley's "Brave New World," certain people were bred to join the
worker class, others to join the servant class, and others the ruling
class. In just that way, our "leaders" have recognized that we can't
all be chiefs, and it is no good training the latrine workers to be
chiefs and generals. There is a natural order to the roles in life,
and it is the duty of the architects of society to "help" those
natural roles work themselves out.
Actually, I do agree in an orderly society--just one with checks and
balances and equal education for all.
Fifteen years ago, it was difficult to avoid mention of angels...
Thirty years ago the buzz was all about Astrology. Now it is all
about magic and enchantments. Part of it is entertainment, part is
wandering interest of the ultra-bored, but a big part of the picture
is the cauldrons of our media machines, which seem to have a shared
planning department, both corporate and content. Insiders will tell
you that you don't get into the design of entertainment vehicles until
invited.
I certainly don't believe the entertainment "elite" get their ideas in a
vacuum. I remember the Christian thinker Francis Schaeffer had a model for
the evolution of culture. It all began with philosophers. Their ideas
after a time came to be reflected in the arts, in paintings and in music.
Ultimately, the ideas that began with the philosophers became a part of
popular thought and formed the basis for moral ideas.
I personally believe that intellectual thought is determined by God and
His prophetic purpose. Intellectuals simply pick up these ideas, since
they are the beginning point at which prophetic fulfillment begins to take
root in the world.
For example, God's first commandment to man was "fill the earth and
multiply." And so, in every generation there have been politicians who
have organized society into cohesive self-sufficient units, delegating
authority to military and economic interests to preserve and expand the
society. And there have been leaders in technological advancement, whose
purpose has been to streamline the exchange of needed goods and services
so that billions can survive in an increasingly dependant world.
But an essential part of God's purposes have been redemptive, to bring
mankind back from self-destruction to the spirituality and life of God
Himself. And so there have been religious leaders, whose purpose has been
to instill a moral consciousness in society and to teach dogmas that unite
God and man in a real relationship producing real moral values.
Schaeffer felt that with the loss of Christian dogma there is a loss of
belief. The result is either an escape into meaningless mysticism or into
a world where human beings are no better than machines. The "fantasy" and
"myth" in entertainemtn today seems to be part of that "meaningless
mysticism" that the world is looking for, a kind of escapist
entertainment. The entertainment elite simply pick up on the societal cry
for escape, in a world that is losing its values and facing
self-destruction on a mass scale.
...Grass-roots ideas begin truly at the grass roots. Injected ideas
begin at the point of injection. Where do these ideas start?
With God.
randy
.
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| User: "randy" |
|
| Title: Re: the validity of miracles |
11 Dec 2007 11:58:30 AM |
|
|
"Shephdd"
Hi Randy, the fact is that the media is Satans number one
instrument of deception. People are being influenced to
accept the wickedness of the Anti Christ whos coming is
not far away. Please read 2nd Thesalonians 2:7-12
Bless the L-RD Yakov
Yakov, I had 2 Thessalonians memorized back in 1972, and I
completely agree with you. I don't find fault with the media
"across the board." But in general, I agree with you. There
are very few "redeeming qualities." Thankyou for being so
blunt!
randy
.
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| User: "Shephdd" |
|
| Title: Re: the validity of miracles |
12 Dec 2007 12:06:44 AM |
|
|
G-D Bless you Randy, Let us stand strong for G-DS Truth ! The time is
coming when our G-D shall silence the foul mouths of all these filthy
dreamers, and then shall the righteous of G-D shine like the fermament.
Please read ( Dan 12:3 ).
Glory to G-D in the Highest Yakov
"randy" <rkluth@wavecable.com> wrote in message
news:zeCdnZWPMaRaUsPanZ2dnUVZ_jednZ2d@wavecable.com...
"Shephdd"
Hi Randy, the fact is that the media is Satans number one instrument of
deception. People are being influenced to accept the wickedness of the
Anti Christ whos coming is not far away. Please read 2nd Thesalonians
2:7-12
Bless the L-RD Yakov
Yakov, I had 2 Thessalonians memorized back in 1972, and I completely
agree with you. I don't find fault with the media "across the board." But
in general, I agree with you. There are very few "redeeming qualities."
Thankyou for being so blunt!
randy
.
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
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| Title: Re: the validity of miracles |
12 Dec 2007 03:50:09 AM |
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"Shephdd" <Shephdd@aol.com> wrote in message
news:475f7a7b$0$5933$607ed4bc@cv.net...
G-D Bless you Randy, Let us stand strong for G-DS Truth !
Does the word "God" frighten you?
--
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
BAAWA Knight!
#1557
.
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| User: "DEE" |
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| Title: Re: the validity of miracles |
12 Dec 2007 03:55:10 AM |
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On Dec 12, 3:50 am, "Robibnikoff" <witchy...@broomstick.com> wrote:
"Shephdd" <Shep...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:475f7a7b$0$5933$607ed4bc@cv.net...
G-D Bless you Randy, Let us stand strong for G-DS Truth !
Does the word "God" frighten you?
--
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
BAAWA Knight!
#1557
Atheists, being so intelligent, know that it is written that way out
of respect.You must be some sort of fraud.
.
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
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| Title: Re: the validity of miracles |
12 Dec 2007 06:05:06 AM |
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"DEE" <adravirgo@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:176916a5-f126-4186-a805-a0ff639a14f5@i72g2000hsd.googlegroups.com...
On Dec 12, 3:50 am, "Robibnikoff" <witchy...@broomstick.com> wrote:
"Shephdd" <Shep...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:475f7a7b$0$5933$607ed4bc@cv.net...
G-D Bless you Randy, Let us stand strong for G-DS Truth !
Does the word "God" frighten you?
Atheists, being so intelligent, know that it is written that way out
of respect.You must be some sort of fraud.
And you're obviously a jackass.
So, how come some of you christians can manage to write the word without
shitting in your pants and some of you can't? Just curious.
--
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
BAAWA Knight!
#1557
.
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| User: "JessHC" |
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| Title: Re: the validity of miracles |
12 Dec 2007 11:45:23 AM |
|
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DEE wrote:
On Dec 12, 3:50 am, "Robibnikoff" <witchy...@broomstick.com> wrote:
"Shephdd" <Shep...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:475f7a7b$0$5933$607ed4bc@cv.net...
G-D Bless you Randy, Let us stand strong for G-DS Truth !
Does the word "God" frighten you?
--
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
BAAWA Knight!
#1557
Atheists, being so intelligent, know that it is written that way out
of respect.You must be some sort of fraud.
.
|
|
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| User: "JessHC" |
|
| Title: Re: the validity of miracles |
12 Dec 2007 11:45:53 AM |
|
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DEE wrote:
On Dec 12, 3:50 am, "Robibnikoff" <witchy...@broomstick.com> wrote:
"Shephdd" <Shep...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:475f7a7b$0$5933$607ed4bc@cv.net...
G-D Bless you Randy, Let us stand strong for G-DS Truth !
Does the word "God" frighten you?
--
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
BAAWA Knight!
#1557
Atheists, being so intelligent, know that it is written that way out
of respect.You must be some sort of fraud.
Atheists, being so intelligent, recognize fear when they see it.
.
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| User: "Michael Gray" |
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| Title: Re: the validity of miracles |
12 Dec 2007 03:21:34 PM |
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On Wed, 12 Dec 2007 01:55:10 -0800 (PST), DEE <adravirgo@gmail.com>
wrote:
On Dec 12, 3:50 am, "Robibnikoff" <witchy...@broomstick.com> wrote:
"Shephdd" <Shep...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:475f7a7b$0$5933$607ed4bc@cv.net...
G-D Bless you Randy, Let us stand strong for G-DS Truth !
Does the word "God" frighten you?
--
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
BAAWA Knight!
#1557
Atheists, being so intelligent, know that it is written that way out
of respect.You must be some sort of fraud.
Respect for a mythogical genocidal creature?
How old are you?
.
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| User: "Neil Kelsey" |
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| Title: Re: the validity of miracles |
12 Dec 2007 12:44:28 AM |
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On Dec 11, 10:06 pm, "Shephdd" <Shep...@aol.com> wrote:
G-D Bless you Randy, Let us stand strong for G-DS Truth ! The time is
coming when our G-D shall silence the foul mouths of all these filthy
dreamers,
You think there's a super duper being who created the universe and
knows everything, including what underwear you have on, yet you've
never seen him, or heard him, and you don't know anyone else who has
either, and you call US dreamers? And on top of all that, you're a
sanctimonious prig?
and then shall the righteous of G-D shine like the fermament.
There is no firmament. It's called "space." Go get a proper education.
Please read ( Dan 12:3 ).
Please read ***** and Jane. The whole thing.
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: the validity of miracles |
13 Dec 2007 01:52:09 PM |
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On Dec 12, 12:44 am, Neil Kelsey <neil_kel...@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Dec 11, 10:06 pm, "Shephdd" <Shep...@aol.com> wrote:
G-D Bless you Randy, Let us stand strong for G-DS Truth ! The time is
coming when our G-D shall silence the foul mouths of all these filthy
dreamers,
You think there's a super duper being who created the universe and
knows everything, including what underwear you have on, yet you've
never seen him, or heard him, and you don't know anyone else who has
either, and you call US dreamers? And on top of all that, you're a
sanctimonious prig?
and then shall the righteous of G-D shine like the fermament.
There is no firmament. It's called "space." Go get a proper education.
Please read ( Dan 12:3 ).
Please read ***** and Jane. The whole thing.
Another atheist full of hate,
like Stalin.
Please read The Gulag Archipelago, 1918-1956: An Experiment in
Literary Investigation (Volume One) (Paperback)
by Aleksandr Isaevich Solzhenitsyn (Author),
http://www.amazon.com/Gulag-Archipelago-1918-1956-Experiment-Investigation/dp/0813332893
Jim
Pr 17:10 - A reproof entereth more into a wise man
than an hundred stripes into a fool.
.
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| User: "JessHC" |
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| Title: Re: the validity of miracles |
18 Dec 2007 03:03:25 PM |
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wrote:
On Dec 12, 12:44 am, Neil Kelsey <neil_kel...@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Dec 11, 10:06 pm, "Shephdd" <Shep...@aol.com> wrote:
G-D Bless you Randy, Let us stand strong for G-DS Truth ! The time is
coming when our G-D shall silence the foul mouths of all these filthy dreamers,
You think there's a super duper being who created the universe and
knows everything, including what underwear you have on, yet you've
never seen him, or heard him, and you don't know anyone else who has
either, and you call US dreamers? And on top of all that, you're a sanctimonious prig?
and then shall the righteous of G-D shine like the fermament.
There is no firmament. It's called "space." Go get a proper education.
Please read ( Dan 12:3 ).
Please read ***** and Jane. The whole thing.
Another atheist full of hate, like Stalin.
Pointing out your ignorance isn't "hate."
.
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| User: "Neil Kelsey" |
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| Title: Re: the validity of miracles |
13 Dec 2007 03:04:42 PM |
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|
On Dec 13, 11:52 am, wrote:
On Dec 12, 12:44 am, Neil Kelsey <neil_kel...@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Dec 11, 10:06 pm, "Shephdd" <Shep...@aol.com> wrote:
G-D Bless you Randy, Let us stand strong for G-DS Truth ! The time is
coming when our G-D shall silence the foul mouths of all these filthy
dreamers,
You think there's a super duper being who created the universe and
knows everything, including what underwear you have on, yet you've
never seen him, or heard him, and you don't know anyone else who has
either, and you call US dreamers? And on top of all that, you're a
sanctimonious prig?
and then shall the righteous of G-D shine like the fermament.
There is no firmament. It's called "space." Go get a proper education.
Please read ( Dan 12:3 ).
Please read ***** and Jane. The whole thing.
Another atheist full of hate,
like Stalin.
Just because someone disagrees with you doesn't mean they hate you,
but I guess it's easier for you to think that.
Just because someone is an atheist doesn't mean they're a communist,
but I guess it's easier for you to think that. Playing Bait The
Atheist must be a really fun game. Whatever you have to say about
Stalin is puzzling to me, first because I'm not a communist, second,
the Iron Curtain fell decades ago, and third, you don't seem to know
about communists in the first place.
Now, let's go back to the original post. Shephdd said "and then shall
the righteous of G-D shine like the fermament." Was I wrong? Is there
a fermament (sic) instead of space?
Please read The Gulag Archipelago, 1918-1956: An Experiment in
Literary Investigation (Volume One) (Paperback)
by Aleksandr Isaevich Solzhenitsyn (Author),
I've always meant to read that. Thanks for reminding me. I did just
finish the Communist Manifesto though.
http://www.amazon.com/Gulag-Archipelago-1918-1956-Experiment-Investig...
Jim
Pr 17:10 - A reproof entereth more into a wise man
than an hundred stripes into a fool.-
.
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| User: "Christopher A.Lee" |
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| Title: Re: the validity of miracles |
13 Dec 2007 02:38:41 PM |
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On Thu, 13 Dec 2007 11:52:09 -0800 (PST),
wrote:
On Dec 12, 12:44 am, Neil Kelsey <neil_kel...@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Dec 11, 10:06 pm, "Shephdd" <Shep...@aol.com> wrote:
G-D Bless you Randy, Let us stand strong for G-DS Truth ! The time is
coming when our G-D shall silence the foul mouths of all these filthy
dreamers,
You think there's a super duper being who created the universe and
knows everything, including what underwear you have on, yet you've
never seen him, or heard him, and you don't know anyone else who has
either, and you call US dreamers? And on top of all that, you're a
sanctimonious prig?
and then shall the righteous of G-D shine like the fermament.
There is no firmament. It's called "space." Go get a proper education.
Please read ( Dan 12:3 ).
Please read ***** and Jane. The whole thing.
Another atheist full of hate,
Another bigoted lying theist.
like Stalin.
Who was a seminarian.
Why do you pig-ignorant retards imagine that what somebody isn't,
motivates anybody?
Please read The Gulag Archipelago, 1918-1956: An Experiment in
Literary Investigation (Volume One) (Paperback)
by Aleksandr Isaevich Solzhenitsyn (Author),
Irrelevant.
http://www.amazon.com/Gulag-Archipelago-1918-1956-Experiment-Investigation/dp/0813332893
Jim
Pr 17:10 - A reproof entereth more into a wise man
than an hundred stripes into a fool.
What kind of retard cites the Bible as though it meant anything?
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: the validity of miracles |
14 Dec 2007 12:00:44 AM |
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On Dec 13, 2:38 pm, Christopher A.Lee <ca...@optonline.net> wrote:
On Thu, 13 Dec 2007 11:52:09 -0800 (PST),
wrote:
On Dec 12, 12:44 am, Neil Kelsey <neil_kel...@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Dec 11, 10:06 pm, "Shephdd" <Shep...@aol.com> wrote:
G-D Bless you Randy, Let us stand strong for G-DS Truth ! The time is
coming when our G-D shall silence the foul mouths of all these filthy
dreamers,
You think there's a super duper being who created the universe and
knows everything, including what underwear you have on, yet you've
never seen him, or heard him, and you don't know anyone else who has
either, and you call US dreamers? And on top of all that, you're a
sanctimonious prig?
and then shall the righteous of G-D shine like the fermament.
There is no firmament. It's called "space." Go get a proper education.
Please read ( Dan 12:3 ).
Please read ***** and Jane. The whole thing.
Another atheist full of hate,
Another bigoted lying theist.
I feel your love.
like Stalin.
Who was a seminarian.
He later converted to atheism.
Why do you pig-ignorant retards imagine that what somebody isn't,
motivates anybody?
Your need to call those who don't
agree with you " pig-ignorant retards "
shows what motivates you.
Please read The Gulag Archipelago, 1918-1956: An Experiment in
Literary Investigation (Volume One) (Paperback)
by Aleksandr Isaevich Solzhenitsyn (Author),
Irrelevant.
No, it shows what a society founded on atheist
principles does. e. g. Mao's China, Pol Pot's
Cambodia, reign of Terror in France, and yes
the "Dear Leader of North Korea.
http://www.amazon.com/Gulag-Archipelago-1918-1956-Experiment-Investig...
Jim
Pr 17:10 - A reproof entereth more into a wise man
than an hundred stripes into a fool.
What kind of retard cites the Bible as though it meant anything?-
Glad you show the ability to respect
those who don't agree with you.(Sarcasm)
Jim
2Pe 3:9 - The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men
count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any
should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
.
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| User: "JessHC" |
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| Title: Re: the validity of miracles |
18 Dec 2007 03:02:27 PM |
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|
wrote:
On Dec 13, 2:38 pm, Christopher A.Lee <ca...@optonline.net> wrote:
On Thu, 13 Dec 2007 11:52:09 -0800 (PST), wrote:
On Dec 12, 12:44 am, Neil Kelsey <neil_kel...@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Dec 11, 10:06 pm, "Shephdd" <Shep...@aol.com> wrote:
G-D Bless you Randy, Let us stand strong for G-DS Truth ! The time is
coming when our G-D shall silence the foul mouths of all these filthy dreamers,
You think there's a super duper being who created the universe and
knows everything, including what underwear you have on, yet you've
never seen him, or heard him, and you don't know anyone else who has
either, and you call US dreamers? And on top of all that, you're a sanctimonious prig?
and then shall the righteous of G-D shine like the fermament.
There is no firmament. It's called "space." Go get a proper education.
Please read ( Dan 12:3 ).
Please read ***** and Jane. The whole thing.
Another atheist full of hate,
Another bigoted lying theist.
I feel your love.
Too bad you don't feel like being honest.
like Stalin.
Who was a seminarian.
He later converted to atheism.
Cite?
Why do you pig-ignorant retards imagine that what somebody isn't, motivates anybody?
Your need to call those who don't agree with you "pig-ignorant retards" shows what motivates you.
Yes, it does; honesty and intelligence.
Please read The Gulag Archipelago, 1918-1956: An Experiment in
Literary Investigation (Volume One) (Paperback) by Aleksandr Isaevich Solzhenitsyn (Author),
Irrelevant.
No, it shows what a society founded on atheist principles does. e. g. Mao's China, Pol Pot's
Cambodia, reign of Terror in France, and yes the "Dear Leader of North Korea.
What are "atheist principles"? Where are these "atheist principles"
listed?
http://www.amazon.com/Gulag-Archipelago-1918-1956-Experiment-Investig...
Pr 17:10 - A reproof entereth more into a wise man than an hundred stripes into a fool.
What kind of retard cites the Bible as though it meant anything?-
Glad you show the ability to respect those who don't agree with you.(Sarcasm)
Glad to see you're unfamiliar with "circular logic."
.
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| User: "Christopher A.Lee" |
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| Title: Re: the validity of miracles |
14 Dec 2007 02:00:33 AM |
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On Thu, 13 Dec 2007 22:00:44 -0800 (PST),
wrote:
On Dec 13, 2:38 pm, Christopher A.Lee <ca...@optonline.net> wrote:
On Thu, 13 Dec 2007 11:52:09 -0800 (PST),
wrote:
On Dec 12, 12:44 am, Neil Kelsey <neil_kel...@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Dec 11, 10:06 pm, "Shephdd" <Shep...@aol.com> wrote:
G-D Bless you Randy, Let us stand strong for G-DS Truth ! The time is
coming when our G-D shall silence the foul mouths of all these filthy
dreamers,
You think there's a super duper being who created the universe and
knows everything, including what underwear you have on, yet you've
never seen him, or heard him, and you don't know anyone else who has
either, and you call US dreamers? And on top of all that, you're a
sanctimonious prig?
and then shall the righteous of G-D shine like the fermament.
There is no firmament. It's called "space." Go get a proper education.
Please read ( Dan 12:3 ).
Please read ***** and Jane. The whole thing.
Another atheist full of hate,
Another bigoted lying theist.
I feel your love.
You can feel my ***** for all I care.
like Stalin.
Who was a seminarian.
He later converted to atheism.
Nobody "converts to atheism", liar. They lose their belief in Santa
Claus, God or whatever as they grow up.
Why do you pig-ignorant retards imagine that what somebody isn't,
motivates anybody?
Your need to call those who don't
agree with you " pig-ignorant retards "
shows what motivates you.
Stop lying.
Please read The Gulag Archipelago, 1918-1956: An Experiment in
Literary Investigation (Volume One) (Paperback)
by Aleksandr Isaevich Solzhenitsyn (Author),
Irrelevant.
No, it shows what a society founded on atheist
principles does. e. g. Mao's China, Pol Pot's
Cambodia, reign of Terror in France, and yes
the "Dear Leader of North Korea.
No it doesn't, liar.
What does not believing in Santa Claus make you do?
http://www.amazon.com/Gulag-Archipelago-1918-1956-Experiment-Investig...
Jim
Pr 17:10 - A reproof entereth more into a wise man
than an hundred stripes into a fool.
What kind of retard cites the Bible as though it meant anything?-
Glad you show the ability to respect
those who don't agree with you.(Sarcasm)
Jim
2Pe 3:9 - The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men
count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any
should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: the validity of miracles |
15 Dec 2007 12:24:26 AM |
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On Dec 14, 2:00 am, Christopher A.Lee <ca...@optonline.net> wrote:
On Thu, 13 Dec 2007 22:00:44 -0800 (PST),
wrote:
On Dec 13, 2:38 pm, Christopher A.Lee <ca...@optonline.net> wrote:
On Thu, 13 Dec 2007 11:52:09 -0800 (PST),
wrote:
On Dec 12, 12:44 am, Neil Kelsey <neil_kel...@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Dec 11, 10:06 pm, "Shephdd" <Shep...@aol.com> wrote:
G-D Bless you Randy, Let us stand strong for G-DS Truth ! The time is
coming when our G-D shall silence the foul mouths of all these filthy
dreamers,
You think there's a super duper being who created the universe and
knows everything, including what underwear you have on, yet you've
never seen him, or heard him, and you don't know anyone else who has
either, and you call US dreamers? And on top of all that, you're a
sanctimonious prig?
and then shall the righteous of G-D shine like the fermament.
There is no firmament. It's called "space." Go get a proper education.
Please read ( Dan 12:3 ).
Please read ***** and Jane. The whole thing.
Another atheist full of hate,
Another bigoted lying theist.
I feel your love.
You can feel my ***** for all I care.
Such a loving response.
like Stalin.
Who was a seminarian.
He later converted to atheism.
Nobody "converts to atheism", liar. They lose their belief in Santa
Claus, God or whatever as they grow up.
I guess he grew up to murdering millions
of people?
Why do you pig-ignorant retards imagine that what somebody isn't,
motivates anybody?
Your need to call those who don't
agree with you " pig-ignorant retards "
shows what motivates you.
Stop lying.
I copied what you wrote. If what you
wrtite is lying than what can I say?
Please read The Gulag Archipelago, 1918-1956: An Experiment in
Literary Investigation (Volume One) (Paperback)
by Aleksandr Isaevich Solzhenitsyn (Author),
Irrelevant.
No, it shows what a society founded on atheist
principles does. e. g. Mao's China, Pol Pot's
Cambodia, reign of Terror in France, and yes
the "Dear Leader of North Korea.
No it doesn't, liar.
It's an empirical fact.
What does not believing in Santa Claus make you do?
All I know is what Atheists have done
when they get state power, but then
you have shown me such kindness and
respect.
Jim
Jam 3:10 Out of the same mouth proceedeth blessing and cursing.
My brethren, these things ought not so to be.
http://www.amazon.com/Gulag-Archipelago-1918-1956-Experiment-Investig...
Jim
Pr 17:10 - A reproof entereth more into a wise man
than an hundred stripes into a fool.
What kind of retard cites the Bible as though it meant anything?-
Glad you show the ability to respect
those who don't agree with you.(Sarcasm)
Jim
2Pe 3:9 - The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men
count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any
should perish, but that all should come to repentance.- Hide quoted text -
.
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| User: "Christopher A.Lee" |
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| Title: Re: the validity of miracles |
15 Dec 2007 02:32:49 AM |
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On Fri, 14 Dec 2007 22:24:26 -0800 (PST),
wrote:
On Dec 14, 2:00 am, Christopher A.Lee <ca...@optonline.net> wrote:
On Thu, 13 Dec 2007 22:00:44 -0800 (PST),
wrote:
On Dec 13, 2:38 pm, Christopher A.Lee <ca...@optonline.net> wrote:
On Thu, 13 Dec 2007 11:52:09 -0800 (PST),
wrote:
On Dec 12, 12:44 am, Neil Kelsey <neil_kel...@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Dec 11, 10:06 pm, "Shephdd" <Shep...@aol.com> wrote:
G-D Bless you Randy, Let us stand strong for G-DS Truth ! The time is
coming when our G-D shall silence the foul mouths of all these filthy
dreamers,
You think there's a super duper being who created the universe and
knows everything, including what underwear you have on, yet you've
never seen him, or heard him, and you don't know anyone else who has
either, and you call US dreamers? And on top of all that, you're a
sanctimonious prig?
and then shall the righteous of G-D shine like the fermament.
There is no firmament. It's called "space." Go get a proper education.
Please read ( Dan 12:3 ).
Please read ***** and Jane. The whole thing.
Another atheist full of hate,
Another bigoted lying theist.
I feel your love.
You can feel my ***** for all I care.
Such a loving response.
like Stalin.
Who was a seminarian.
He later converted to atheism.
Nobody "converts to atheism", liar. They lose their belief in Santa
Claus, God or whatever as they grow up.
I guess he grew up to murdering millions
of people?
Are you really this stupid?
What part of NOT BELIEVING IN THE GOD OF SOMEBODY E
Why do you pig-ignorant retards imagine that what somebody isn't,
motivates anybody?
Your need to call those who don't
agree with you " pig-ignorant retards "
shows what motivates you.
Stop lying.
I copied what you wrote. If what you
wrtite is lying than what can I say?
No you didn't, liar. You pretended I had a need to call people
pig-ignorant retards when you know they're only called that when they
show they are.
Please read The Gulag Archipelago, 1918-1956: An Experiment in
Literary Investigation (Volume One) (Paperback)
by Aleksandr Isaevich Solzhenitsyn (Author),
Irrelevant.
No, it shows what a society founded on atheist
principles does. e. g. Mao's China, Pol Pot's
Cambodia, reign of Terror in France, and yes
the "Dear Leader of North Korea.
No it doesn't, liar.
It's an empirical fact.
You lied when you pretended it was due to the exact equivalenf of not
believing in leprechauns, which you know doesn't motivate anything.
What does not believing in Santa Claus make you do?
All I know is what Atheists have done
when they get state power, but then
you have shown me such kindness and
respect.
You're lying agaim.
And you got what your deliberate falsehoods deserved.
Jim
Jam 3:10 Out of the same mouth proceedeth blessing and cursing.
My brethren, these things ought not so to be.
http://www.amazon.com/Gulag-Archipelago-1918-1956-Experiment-Investig...
Jim
Pr 17:10 - A reproof entereth more into a wise man
than an hundred stripes into a fool.
What kind of retard cites the Bible as though it meant anything?-
Glad you show the ability to respect
those who don't agree with you.(Sarcasm)
Jim
2Pe 3:9 - The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men
count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any
should perish, but that all should come to repentance.- Hide quoted text -
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: the validity of miracles |
15 Dec 2007 11:07:17 PM |
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Atheism, not religion, is the real force behind the mass murders of
history
by The Christian Science Monitor
http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/1121/p09s01-coop.html
by Dinesh D'Souza
RANCHO SANTA FE, CALIF. - In recent months, a spate of atheist books
have argued that religion represents, as "End of Faith" author Sam
Harris puts it, "the most potent source of human conflict, past and
present."
Columnist Robert Kuttner gives the familiar litany. "The Crusades
slaughtered millions in the name of Jesus. The Inquisition brought the
torture and murder of millions more. After Martin Luther, Christians
did bloody battle with other Christians for another three centuries."
In his bestseller "The God Delusion," Richard Dawkins contends that
most of the world's recent conflicts - in the Middle East, in the
Balkans, in Northern Ireland, in Kashmir, and in Sri Lanka - show the
vitality of religion's murderous impulse.
The problem with this critique is that it exaggerates the crimes
attributed to religion, while ignoring the greater crimes of secular
fanaticism. The best example of religious persecution in America is
the Salem witch trials. How many people were killed in those trials?
Thousands? Hundreds? Actually, fewer than 25. Yet the event still
haunts the liberal imagination.
It is strange to witness the passion with which some secular figures
rail against the misdeeds of the Crusaders and Inquisitors more than
500 years ago. The number sentenced to death by the Spanish
Inquisition appears to be about 10,000. Some historians contend that
an additional 100,000 died in jail due to malnutrition or illness.
These figures are tragic, and of course population levels were much
lower at the time. But even so, they are minuscule compared with the
death tolls produced by the atheist despotisms of the 20th century. In
the name of creating their version of a religion-free utopia, Adolf
Hitler, Joseph Stalin, and Mao Zedong produced the kind of mass
slaughter that no Inquisitor could possibly match. Collectively these
atheist tyrants murdered more than 100 million people.
Moreover, many of the conflicts that are counted as "religious wars"
were not fought over religion. They were mainly fought over rival
claims to territory and power. Can the wars between England and France
be called religious wars because the English were Protestants and the
French were Catholics? Hardly.
The same is true today. The Israeli-Palestinian conflict is not, at
its core, a religious one. It arises out of a dispute over self-
determination and land. Hamas and the extreme orthodox parties in
Israel may advance theological claims - "God gave us this land" and so
forth - but the conflict would remain essentially the same even
without these religious motives. Ethnic rivalry, not religion, is the
source of the tension in Northern Ireland and the Balkans.
Blindly blaming religion for conflict
Yet today's atheists insist on making religion the culprit. Consider
Mr. Harris's analysis of the conflict in Sri Lanka. "While the
motivations of the Tamil Tigers are not explicitly religious," he
informs us, "they are Hindus who undoubtedly believe many improbable
things about the nature of life and death." In other words, while the
Tigers see themselves as combatants in a secular political struggle,
Harris detects a religious motive because these people happen to be
Hindu and surely there must be some underlying religious craziness
that explains their fanaticism.
Harris can go on forever in this vein. Seeking to exonerate secularism
and atheism from the horrors perpetrated in their name, he argues that
Stalinism and Maoism were in reality "little more than a political
religion." As for Nazism, "while the hatred of Jews in Germany
expressed itself in a predominantly secular way, it was a direct
inheritance from medieval Christianity." Indeed, "The holocaust marked
the culmination of ... two thousand years of Christian fulminating
against the Jews."
One finds the same inanities in Mr. Dawkins's work. Don't be fooled by
this rhetorical legerdemain. Dawkins and Harris cannot explain why, if
Nazism was directly descended from medieval Christianity, medieval
Christianity did not produce a Hitler. How can a self-proclaimed
atheist ideology, advanced by Hitler as a repudiation of Christianity,
be a "culmination" of 2,000 years of Christianity? Dawkins and Harris
are employing a transparent sleight of hand that holds Christianity
responsible for the crimes committed in its name, while exonerating
secularism and atheism for the greater crimes committed in their name.
Religious fanatics have done things that are impossible to defend, and
some of them, mostly in the Muslim world, are still performing horrors
in the name of their creed. But if religion sometimes disposes people
to self-righteousness and absolutism, it also provides a moral code
that condemns the slaughter of innocents. In particular, the moral
teachings of Jesus provide no support for - indeed they stand as a
stern rebuke to - the historical injustices perpetrated in the name of
Christianity.
Atheist hubris
The crimes of atheism have generally been perpetrated through a
hubristic ideology that sees man, not God, as the creator of values.
Using the latest techniques of science and technology, man seeks to
displace God and create a secular utopia here on earth. Of course if
some people - the Jews, the landowners, the unfit, or the handicapped
- have to be eliminated in order to achieve this utopia, this is a
price the atheist tyrants and their apologists have shown themselves
quite willing to pay. Thus they confirm the truth of Fyodor
Dostoyevsky's dictum, "If God is not, everything is permitted."
Whatever the motives for atheist bloodthirstiness, the indisputable
fact is that all the religions of the world put together have in 2,000
years not managed to kill as many people as have been killed in the
name of atheism in the past few decades.
It's time to abandon the mindlessly repeated mantra that religious
belief has been the greatest source of human conflict and violence.
Atheism, not religion, is the real force behind the mass murders of
history.
* Dinesh D'Souza is the Rishwain Fellow at the Hoover Institution. His
new book, "The Enemy at Home: The Cultural Left and Its Responsibility
for 9/11," will be published in January.
.
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| User: "Michael Gray" |
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| Title: Re: the validity of miracles |
15 Dec 2007 03:11:21 AM |
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On Sat, 15 Dec 2007 03:32:49 -0500, Christopher A.Lee
<calee@optonline.net> wrote:
On Fri, 14 Dec 2007 22:24:26 -0800 (PST),
wrote:
On Dec 14, 2:00 am, Christopher A.Lee <ca...@optonline.net> wrote:
On Thu, 13 Dec 2007 22:00:44 -0800 (PST),
wrote:
On Dec 13, 2:38 pm, Christopher A.Lee <ca...@optonline.net> wrote:
On Thu, 13 Dec 2007 11:52:09 -0800 (PST),
wrote:
On Dec 12, 12:44 am, Neil Kelsey <neil_kel...@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Dec 11, 10:06 pm, "Shephdd" <Shep...@aol.com> wrote:
G-D Bless you Randy, Let us stand strong for G-DS Truth ! The time is
coming when our G-D shall silence the foul mouths of all these filthy
dreamers,
You think there's a super duper being who created the universe and
knows everything, including what underwear you have on, yet you've
never seen him, or heard him, and you don't know anyone else who has
either, and you call US dreamers? And on top of all that, you're a
sanctimonious prig?
and then shall the righteous of G-D shine like the fermament.
There is no firmament. It's called "space." Go get a proper education.
Please read ( Dan 12:3 ).
Please read ***** and Jane. The whole thing.
Another atheist full of hate,
Another bigoted lying theist.
I feel your love.
You can feel my ***** for all I care.
Such a loving response.
like Stalin.
Who was a seminarian.
He later converted to atheism.
Nobody "converts to atheism", liar. They lose their belief in Santa
Claus, God or whatever as they grow up.
I guess he grew up to murdering millions
of people?
Are you really this stupid?
Sheffield is not just stupid, he is certifiably INSANE.
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| User: "Michael Gray" |
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| Title: Re: the validity of miracles |
12 Dec 2007 01:24:03 AM |
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On Wed, 12 Dec 2007 01:06:44 -0500, "Shephdd" <Shephdd@aol.com> wrote:
G-D Bless you Randy, Let us stand strong for G-DS Truth ! The time is
coming when our G-D shall silence the foul mouths of all these filthy
dreamers, and then shall the righteous of G-D shine like the fermament.
Please read ( Dan 12:3 ).
Glory to G-D in the Highest Yakov
What ward of the state mental hospital are you in?
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| User: "JessHC" |
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| Title: Re: the validity of miracles |
12 Dec 2007 11:34:58 AM |
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Shephdd wrote:
G-D Bless you Randy, Let us stand strong for G-DS Truth ! The time is
coming when our G-D shall silence the foul mouths of all these filthy
dreamers, and then shall the righteous of G-D shine like the fermament.
Please read ( Dan 12:3 ).
Glory to G-D in the Highest Yakov
Why do you imagine atheists would be interested in this exchange?
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| User: "JessHC" |
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| Title: Re: the validity of miracles |
12 Dec 2007 10:29:47 AM |
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randy wrote:
"Shephdd"
Hi Randy, the fact is that the media is Satans number one
instrument of deception. People are being influenced to
accept the wickedness of the Anti Christ whos coming is
not far away. Please read 2nd Thesalonians 2:7-12
Bless the L-RD Yakov
Yakov, I had 2 Thessalonians memorized back in 1972, and I
completely agree with you. I don't find fault with the media
"across the board." But in general, I agree with you. There
are very few "redeeming qualities." Thankyou for being so
blunt!
randy
That's nice. Why post it to alt.atheism? Too lazy to trim follow-ups?
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
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| Title: Re: the validity of miracles |
11 Dec 2007 10:25:30 AM |
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"Shephdd" <Shephdd@aol.com> wrote in message
news:475dec8f$0$5935$607ed4bc@cv.net...
Hi Randy, the fact is that the media is Satans number one instrument of
deception. People are being influenced to accept the wickedness of the
Anti Christ whos coming is not far away. Please read 2nd Thesalonians
2:7-12
Oh brother. Got any evidence this Satan character exists outside your
religion and/or imagination?
--
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
BAAWA Knight!
#1557
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| User: "randy" |
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| Title: Re: the validity of miracles |
11 Dec 2007 12:01:34 PM |
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"Robibnikoff"
Oh brother. Got any evidence this Satan character exists
outside your religion and/or imagination?
The self-destructive tendencies of the world, the threat of
nuclear war, totalitarian regimes, the failure of rich
countries to help poor countries, etc. etc. What isn't
evidence of the truth of the Bible? The sinful nature of man
is overwhelmingly demonstrated. Our inability to control
ourselves even when we carry the highest ideals possible.
On the other hand, the greatest proof for God is that we
haven't already destroyed ourselves! ;)
randy
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
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| Title: Re: the validity of miracles |
11 Dec 2007 12:22:44 PM |
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"randy" <rkluth@wavecable.com> wrote in message
news:wtWdnbE4paniTcPanZ2dnUVZ_q-jnZ2d@wavecable.com...
"Robibnikoff"
Oh brother. Got any evidence this Satan character exists outside your
religion and/or imagination?
The self-destructive tendencies of the world, the threat of nuclear war,
totalitarian regimes, the failure of rich countries to help poor
countries, etc. etc.
Sorry, unsupported assertions and/or your mere opinion don't cut it.
Got anything else?
What isn't
evidence of the truth of the Bible?
Just about everything.
The sinful nature of man
is overwhelmingly demonstrated. Our inability to control ourselves even
when we carry the highest ideals possible.
So what? That doesn't prove your madeup character, Satan, exists.
On the other hand, the greatest proof for God is that we haven't already
destroyed ourselves! ;)
Wrong. This is just another of your unsupported assertions.
Got anything objective and verifiable? Something other than your opinion?
What's that? No?
Too bad. What you wrote is unacceptable.
--
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
BAAWA Knight!
#1557
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| User: "randy" |
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| Title: Re: the validity of miracles |
11 Dec 2007 02:27:09 PM |
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"Robibnikoff"
"randy"
The self-destructive tendencies of the world, the threat
of nuclear war, totalitarian regimes, the failure of rich
countries to help poor countries, etc. etc.
Sorry, unsupported assertions and/or your mere opinion
don't cut it. Got anything else?
Mostly a divine teleology, the design of nature and the
design of history, all supported by biblical prophecy. I
might also add that our human conscience, if not "seared,"
also bears witness to the presence of God in our world and
in our lives.
What isn't
evidence of the truth of the Bible?
Just about everything.
On the contrary, biblical prophecy has been right about
human history, our inherent sin nature, or tendency to be
self-destructive, and our ability to survive through our
failures as well.
The sinful nature of man
is overwhelmingly demonstrated. Our inability to control
ourselves even when we carry the highest ideals possible.
So what? That doesn't prove your madeup character, Satan,
exists.
Our compulsion to sin apart from human reason and morality
does support an external source of temptation. Whether that
be Satan or some other insidious influence is up to you to
decide. But you do have to explain it somehow!
On the other hand, the greatest proof for God is that we
haven't already destroyed ourselves! ;)
Wrong. This is just another of your unsupported
assertions. Got anything objective and verifiable?
Something other than your opinion? What's that? No? Too
bad. What you wrote is unacceptable.
Possibly you don't want to answer the questions I raised.
Your choice.
randy
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
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| Title: Re: the validity of miracles |
11 Dec 2007 04:50:00 PM |
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"randy" <rkluth@wavecable.com> wrote in message
news:PPWdnfq8itYDb8PanZ2dnUVZ_gydnZ2d@wavecable.com...
"Robibnikoff"
"randy"
The self-destructive tendencies of the world, the threat of nuclear war,
totalitarian regimes, the failure of rich countries to help poor
countries, etc. etc.
Sorry, unsupported assertions and/or your mere opinion don't cut it. Got
anything else?
Mostly a divine teleology, the design of nature and the design of history,
all supported by biblical prophecy. I might also add that our human
conscience, if not "seared," also bears witness to the presence of God in
our world and in our lives.
So, you don't have anything other than unsupported assertions. Oh well.
--
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
BAAWA Knight!
#1557
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