"Glenn (Christian Mystic)" <christianmystic@ev1.net> wrote in message
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"Glenn (Christian Mystic)" <christianmystic@ev1.net> wrote in message
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"Glenn (Christian Mystic)" <christianmystic@ev1.net> wrote in message
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As <I was> one of *them* I can say, you are absolutely CORRECT, also,
when barely functional, outside the mind, we (at least me) being baby
talked to. PLEASE even though we may *look* like "morons" most of us
are no more moronic than *yourselves* :-)

HE HE HE HE

<*Blush*> I think I had too much rum in my post Christmas egg-nog, I
left out a few words, and it came out a bit disjointed, I was trying to
say "...we (at least me) found it a bit irritating being baby-talked
to..." My mind was still aware, even while I was unable to communicate
it, at the time. The plea, was for people not to judge incompassitated
stroke victoms by their cover, a varant of don't judge a book by its
cover... It is insulting when you baby-talk to them

I understood that (I think) and was amused by the equating of those
"morons" who think the comatose (or near) are possibly less alert than
the viewers.
I assume that you don't equate "loving or compassionate" talk with
baby-talk.
Many talk that way to others under the most demanding or austere
circumstances.

Maybe, but being on the receiving in, it can be most *insulting*, hidden
behind the mask of one's condition, in a mind, struggling as it may be to
escape the inner trumma(sp), to reach out to the outside world... Just
something I would love they dealing with us to consider

Understood and with empathy.

POSSESSION:

The following are symptoms of possession as represented in the Roman
Ritual
of Exorcism. In most cases, a victim will have one or more of the traits
listed. Not all of these symptoms must be present to indicate possession
and
it is quite possible that none of these symptoms will be present.

Victim speaks or understands unknown languages without ever studying the
language being spoken or heard

Victim clearly knows things that are distant or hidden

Victim can predict future events (sometimes through dreams)

Victim has an intense hatred for holy things

Victim shows a physical strength far above his age or normal condition

Most victims are under medical care for mental illness before it is even
discovered that they are possessed. The doctor prescribes a variety of
medicines and would be cures only to find that the victim does not respond
to any of them. Victims are not limited to a definite age group. Victims
can
be days old and be possessed (see Cursed from the womb). Once such case
involved a 13 month old infant. When the exorcist placed a medal of St.
Benedict on the infant, the baby responded with much agitation. The baby,
who was laying on his stomach, turned his head and said annoyed, "Andate,
marchate!" ("Leave me, get out of here!") The exorcist, as well as the
parents of the child were amazed, for the infant had not yet learned to
speak!


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

THE EXTRAORDINARY ACTIVITIES OF SATAN DEFINED

The following is taken from Fr. Gabriele Amorth's second book "An Exorcist
More Stories." Fr. Amorth's book is published by IGNATIUS released in
2002.


EXTERNAL PAIN - deals strictly with physical suffering. This includes the
beatings, scourging, and injuries caused by inexplicable pushing, falling
objects, and so on, that we read about in the lives of many saints, such
as
the Curé of Ars. Saint Paul of the Cross, and Padre Pio. These occurrences
are not as rare as we may think, and the demon's activity is usually
confined to external activity; internal activity, if any, is only
temporary
and limited to the duration of a particular disturbance.

DIABOLIC POSSESSION - is the gravest form of demonic activity, which
allows
a continuing presence of a demon in a human body. The evil symptoms do not
have to be continuous but can alternate between periods of crisis and
periods of rest. Possession implies intervals of temporary suspension of
mental, intellectual, affective, and volitive faculties. Symptoms can
include the knowledge of languages unknown to the victim, superhuman
strength, and the ability to know the occult or someone else's thoughts.
Typically, there is an aversion to anything sacred, often in conjunction
with blasphemy. There are also frauds who pose as demoniacs; therefore, we
need to be extremely wary.

DIABOLIC OPPRESSION - is a ransom discomfort. We must remember that
symptoms
and gravity differ greatly case by case. This oppression can strike
health,
job, affections, relationship with others, and so on. Its symptoms include
unexplainable rages and a tendency to complete isolation. Oppression can
affect both individual and groups (even very large groups).

DIABOLIC OBSESSION - causes an almost split personality. Our will remains
free, but it is oppressed by obsessive thoughts. The victim experiences
thoughts that may be rationally absurd but of such a nature that he is
unable to free himself. The obsessed person lives in a perpetual state of
prostration, with persistent temptations to suicide. We must be aware that
the temptation to commit suicide is also present in diabolic possession
and
diabolic oppression.

DIABOLIC INFESTATION - In this case, the malefic activity is directed
toward
places (houses, offices, stores, fields), objects (cars, pillows,
mattresses, dolls) and animals, therefore it only indirectly affects man.
Origen tells us that the early Christians resorted to exorcisms in these
situations.

DIABOLIC SUBJUGATION - The term indicates a voluntary pact--implicit or
explicit---with Satan, by which we submit to the lordship of the demon.
There are also involuntary times with the evil one; these cases fall into
the preceding categories, especially the most severe: possession.

Fr. Amorth explains in the signs above that the boundaries between one
category and another are not clear-cut, because there is a lot of mingling
and compounding of symptoms.

Below, Fr. Amorth explains that there are four principal causes that may
cause one to fall victim to these evils.

(1) PURE DIVINE PERMISSION

Clearly, nothing happens without divine permission, but God never wills
evil, suffering, or temptation. He gave us freedom and allows the
existence
of evil, but knows how to turn it into good. When he gives the demon his
permission to torment us, he does so to strengthen us in virtue, as in the
biblical example of Job, as well as of many blesseds and saints. We must
keep in mind that diabolical harassment in itself has nothing to do with
the
state of grace of its victims.

(2) SUBJECTION TO A CURSE

Here, too, the victim is innocent, but there is culpability on the part
of
whoever casts and/or commissions the curse. By the word curse, I mean the
intention of harming others through demonic intervention. This can be
achieved in many ways: malefice (or spell), binding, evil eye,
malediction,
and so on. The matter is serious, but we need to be on guard against
misconceptions. By their nature, curses lend themselves to all sorts of
abuses, especially when we consider the current escalation in the number
of
frauds, suggestions, manias, and more.

(3) GRAVE HARDENING IN SIN

Judas Iscariot is the classical Gospel example. The many individuals who
abandon themselves to sexual perversions, violence, and drugs fall into
this
group. The heinous crime of abortion aggravates this situation; its
terrible
repercussions are clearly seen during exorcisms, because to liberate a
victim who is guilty of abortion usually requires a very long period of
time. Due to the current devastation of the family and the laxity of
morals,
the repercussions that stem from the scourge of abortion are much more
common than in the past. When we take all these factors into account, we
can
understand why the number of individuals stricken by evil ailments has
multiplied.

(4) PROXIMITY TO EVIL PLACES OR PERSONS.

This includes attending spiritualistic session, dabbling in magic, or
consulting magicians, witch doctors, and some card readers; also,
practicing
the occult, belonging to satanic sects, or practicing in rites that climax
with black masses, and so on, put us at great risk.

To this category we can add the influence of mass media, such as
pornographic shows and violent horror movies broadcast by many TV
stations.
We witness the effects of the widespread presence of rock music,
culminating
in satanic rock performed in what we could easily refer to as "churches or
rock", such as stadiums, parks, and discothèques. We should not be
surprised
that, today, there is an explosion of these activities: a decline in faith
life is directly connected to an increase in superstitions. I will not
tire
or repeating that members of the clergy have done nothing to oppose, or at
least warn against, all these evils, because they are completely ignorant
even of what the Bible explicitly says on the subject. This forth category
has greatly contributed to the increase in evil ailments in the last
decades, especially among the young. Taken from (An Exorcist More Stories
by
Fr. Gabriele Amorth, published by IGNATIUS PRESS).

SATANIC CULTS AND WITCHCRAFT

The occult is any practice that involves ceremonies, rituals, chants,
magic,
or activities that are obviously not God centered. These activities or
rituals can change the course of nature, the the lives of those who are
involved in such practices, and of course, the innocent victims.

It used to be that the Ouija board was the most popular occult board game,
now we have a recruiting tool for Satan--Dungeons and Dragons. Satan's
main
target in this game is our youth. The most powerful and successful players
are those who use magic. If you do not know how to use magic, the Dungeons
Master Guide gives you everything you need to know to be successful at the
game. The Master guide teaches new beginners, how to communicate with the
dead, cast spells, and learning to chant. Sex, crime and violence are also
prominent tools of the game. It is very difficult for an individual to
quit
once they are hooked. Those who have managed to break away from its
seductive powers admit that it ruled their life.

The use of magic revolves around evil spirits, psychic abilities and
contacting spirits. What is magic? As we know, magic is a power that does
not involve God. It is a power that is derived from such things as voodoo,
sorcery, primitive religions and Satanism. Most witches who use magic
swear
that they do not worship Satan but worship the gods and goddesses of
nature
(The gods and goddesses of nature are hardly Jesus Christ! Of course they
worship Satan! Do not let someone who practices this occult tell you
otherwise!). Many of these individuals are unknown because they blend in
quite well. They can be found attending church services in every
denomination and they practice their magic on the side.

Witches coexist in what is called a Coven. A Coven consists of 13 members,
all who must live in harmony with each other. The more harmonious they
live
together the greater their power and the power that flows through them.
Their tools include crystals, divination, astrology, tarot cards, crystal
balls, reincarnation, pendulums and séances. Most witches practice white
magic because they want to use what they call the "good supernatural
powers." They practice white magic to benefit themselves and do not really
intend to hurt anyone. Again, anything that uses "powers," "spells," ect,
is
not God oriented but self-oriented and is condemned by God--including
white
magic!

An example of such powers, involved the exorcism of an 18 year old
teenager
who was taken to the exorcist by her mother. The teenager's problems began
at age 12. She had dreams that accurately foretold the future. Her dreams
would come true down to the last detail. She also began to have horrible
nightmares. After much questioning by the exorcist, it was fond that the
teenager was involved in Santeria and she frequently consulted a medium.
She
frequented bookstores that specialized in the occult sciences and read
many
books on Tarot cards and oracles from Egypt. During one of her exorcisms,
the Exorcist questioned the demon's asking which of them were present.
Amidst much screaming and weeping, the demon's stated "pain-sorrow,
witchcraft, white magic and spiritism." The name "Vincent" also was
mentioned. When her mother was questioned, it was found that "Vincent" was
an occultist whom they consulted. Apparently, Vincent was trying very hard
to bring this young woman under his power.

Moving on to black magic and Satanic Cults. Black magic is used to harm
others. It involves the casting of spells and praying to Satan for evil to
befall targeted individuals. Those members of Satanic Cults are very
familiar with black magic; it is part of their daily lives. There are two
types of Satan worshipers, those who are born into the cult and those who
are recruited. Most recruited members are young adults, who through drugs
and alcohol are introduced into this practice. The black mass is for those
who are serious members of this occult. The Satanists use the black mass
as
a mockery of the Catholic Mass. The high priest wears the same garments as
a
Bishop with an inverted cross. Sometimes they are able to steal a sacred
host in order that it can be desecrated. The Lord's Prayer is said
backwards
and when the high priest begins to say, "this is my body," the
congregation
pairs off and they begin to perform sexual acts. At the height of the
mass,
the consecration, a sexual act is performed on the main altar by the high
priest. The black mass is one big orgy. Satanist also mock the liturgical
feast days of the Catholic Church with a black mass. The eve of All Saints
Day (Halloween) is a good example.

DAILY LIFE OF THE POSSESSED

In the majority of cases, the possessed individual appears to be "normal."
The possessed can attend church services, work, raise a family and
participate in other activities as well. The possessed victim goes through
cycles more or less. The possessed may be fine and function normally for
months on end until something triggers an attack. Many times this attack
is
attributed to a religious holiday or event.

Personality changes are one of the most significant outward signs. This
happens when the spirits inside of the victim take control. The victim
becomes "on edge" filled with anxiety, anger, and hatred of all things.
The
hatred extends to friends and loved ones. The victims' behavior is
irrational or strange. The victim feels a loss of identity and cannot
distinguish who they are or what they have become. No longer can the
victim
communicate with others as previously. It is much better in the victim's
mind, to hide away from everyone. The victim feels that no one understands
them. They feel all alone, almost as if in a different plane of awareness
that no one else has access. Sometimes internal voices urge the victim to
do
things that is against their nature. It comes to the point where it is
impossible for the victim to discern if the action or thought is
originating
from their own being or from the demons inside. A feeling of insanity
tortures the victim and hopelessness is the only life they know. They
become
puppets of the evil one.

Personal appearance, dress, house chores, bills that need paid, and life
in
general are of no concern to the victim. The victim views their own life
as
an unproductive waste and death is welcomed. The victim can find no reason
for existing. No longer is the victim able to see good in themselves; even
though they want to be good, they feel damned. Every moment of torment, of
being damned, is like an eternity for the victim. Will it ever end? No one
can comfort this poor soul, and heaven forgive those who add unnecessary
torment to this soul when in such a state. There is no way to describe
this
torment unless it is experienced.

Sometimes the victim will be totally taken over and will not remember what
happened during the day. In church, the victim intends to pray, and
without
knowing, begins to scream obscenities or make strange inhuman cries,
growls
or moans. When told of such behavior, the victim cannot believe such a
thing
could have taken place, for they do not remember.

Not all possessed individuals will react in this manner. Some may find
that
every time they go to church they are nauseated, filled with fear,
anxiety,
even suffocation, they find it hard to breathe, and their mind wanders.
When
they take communion, their mouth and throat burn as the sacred host is
consumed. Sometimes they do not even remember being in church, and cannot
account for this time.

Symptoms of possession vary, but again, having these symptoms does not
indicate possession, these symptoms were simply relayed from one who is
possessed. Not all cases are the same.

CURSED FROM THE MOTHERS WOMB

Babies who are unwanted by their parents (for whatever reason) are in
actuality, cursed by their parents while in the womb. It has been noted in
many exorcism cases, that demons freely state they entered the child
during
gestation due to a curse placed on the child by a parent or relative. When
prompted by the exorcist, the demon even goes as far as to give the exact
month of gestation, time and reason for possessing this innocent victim
(see
Parents do not necessarily have to be the only culprit for cursing the
unborn, anyone can curse a child in the womb and achieve the same results.
One might ask, "How could God allow this? How could this be fair to the
innocent child?" Some of these innocent victims become an instrument of
God
as a victim soul. God makes good out of evil. But why can't God stop this
evil from happening? Because God has given all of us free will. We are
free
to kill, to love, to hate, to do whatever we please, but we will one day
pay
the consequences for such actions. In the mean time, God does not abandon
the creature that was cursed. If anything, God's love and grace are
overabundant in this poor soul. The curse placed upon the innocent at
birth,
can in some instances be their ticket to sanctity. How can a curse be a
ticket to sanctity? Suffering. The suffering of the possessed is as if one
is experiencing the actual depths of Hell. The possessed, actually
experience what the demon experiences. Comfort cannot be found anywhere
for
the possessed. They search and search but nothing whatsoever will sooth
the
agony of their soul; desperation, hopelessness, sorrow, depression, etc.
The
only escape for most is suicide. However, if such a person takes this
suffering and offers it up in atonement for the sins of others, in
imitation
of Our Lord, Satan is defeated and souls are saved.

PURIFICATION BY GOD

There are many cases of saints that God permitted to become possessed by
evil spirits for their own purification. As stated in the book AN EXORCIST
TELLS HIS STORY, some of the modern saints beatified by Pope John Paul II
include: Father Giovanni Calabria and Sister Mary of Jesus Crucified.
Without fault of their own, both saints were subjected to authentic
satanic
possession. The devil acted through their bodies, and they did and said
things totally opposite of the holiness representing their normal
character.

There are many innocent souls who suffer the humiliation of possession as
victim souls for others. In some instances they can no longer attend mass,
and are unable to pray. They experience much suffering in spirit. They are
filled with hopelessness, despair, anxiety, and suicide, etc. But worst of
all, is the feeling of abandonment by God--the dark night of the soul. The
God who once filled their very being with an abundance of love and
understanding, has shut the door and become ignorant to their pleas. The
soul of the possessed yearns and craves for this love that has vanished
and
becomes heartbroken beyond words. The power in this type of suffering,
when
offered up to the Lord, is unlike any other.

OUIJA BOARD AND FORTUNE TELLING

Do you want to become possessed fast? Use the Ouija board! The Ouija board
is one of the easiest and quickest ways to become possessed. (NOTE: When
the
prayers of exorcism are said over the Ouija board it will not work
again.).
When the Ouija board is used, a supernatural question is expected--a
question obviously not from God. Involvement in such practices indicates
that an individual does not trust God for answers and thus is sinning
against God. God gives us answers in many ways, through the Bible, signs,
wonders, and by people we know and people we don't know. The most
significant way to find answers is in God's gift of the Holy Spirit--our
guide. We must trust in what God has planned for us. He knows what is best
for our souls. Fortune telling is on the same lines as the Ouija board in
that we are not trusting in God and what he has planned for our soul.
There
are many people who claim to have the psychic gift of knowing the future.
Some even claim to be devout Catholics. The question is, if psychic
abilities do come from God, as most psychic's claim, why does God forbid
their use? Let us look at Lev. 19:31 "Do not go to mediums or consult
fortunetellers, for you will be defiled by them. I the Lord am your God."

Fortune telling is a form of divination and God forbids it! The following
are practices that are not God centered and must be avoided at all costs:
Ouija boards, reading palms, card reading, crystal ball gazing, tea leaf
readings, numerology, horoscopes, astrology, séances and haunted houses,
white magic and black magic. Curiosity in any of these areas mentioned is
none other than a temptation from Satan. Too many people dabble in such
practices for kicks and the result in most cases lead directly to
possession

DANGER SIGNS OF INVOLVEMENT IN THE OCCULT

The signs indicated below do not necessarily imply that an individual is
involved in the occult. A combination of these signs along with a dramatic
change in appearance (not typical the normal behavior or appearance of the
individual) can be an indication that occult activity is present.

Danger signs of individuals involved in the occult:

Changes in personality--violence, yelling, rage; depression; moodiness,
low
self-esteem; secretive about new friends; self-mutilation; cruelty to
members of family, friends and animals; hostility to the Christian faith;
involvement in rituals using dead animals


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Individuals who: use the following: occult board games (Dungeons and
Dragons, The Gathering, Ouija Boards.)


"Glenn (Christian Mystic)" <christianmystic@ev1.net> wrote in message
news:1112ojpd9a6q6ca@corp.supernews.com...

You have me pegged :-}

"icono" <icono@cox.net> wrote in message
news:LFoAd.5243$yW5.989@fed1read02...

"Glenn (Christian Mystic)" <christianmystic@ev1.net> wrote in message
news:10t3j0drrfpu67d@corp.supernews.com...

"icono" <icono@cox.net> wrote in message
news:xwLzd.4567$yW5.2549@fed1read02...

"Glenn (Christian Mystic)" <christianmystic@ev1.net> wrote in message
news:10sufrbqeskffb0@corp.supernews.com...

As <I was> one of *them* I can say, you are absolutely CORRECT, also,
when barely functional, outside the mind, we (at least me) being baby
talked to. PLEASE even though we may *look* like "morons" most of us
are no more moronic than *yourselves* :-)

HE HE HE HE

<*Blush*> I think I had too much rum in my post Christmas egg-nog, I
left out a few words, and it came out a bit disjointed, I was trying to
say "...we (at least me) found it a bit irritating being baby-talked
to..." My mind was still aware, even while I was unable to communicate
it, at the time. The plea, was for people not to judge incompassitated
stroke victoms by their cover, a varant of don't judge a book by its
cover... It is insulting when you baby-talk to them

I understood that (I think) and was amused by the equating of those
"morons" who think the comatose (or near) are possibly less alert than
the viewers.
I assume that you don't equate "loving or compassionate" talk with
baby-talk.
Many talk that way to others under the most demanding or austere
circumstances.

"Iconoclast" <icono@home.net> wrote in message
news:gGsrb.12474$0K6.2914@fed1read06...

"Mike Rhodes" <mroads_forgod@granderiver.net> wrote in message
news:gnbsqv0b9eik4g19cu1j4mt38ovbbpsb7g@4ax.com...

On Sat, 8 Nov 2003 14:12:56 -0700, "Iconoclast" <icono@home.net>
wrote:

"Mac4TBH" <Mac4TBH@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:zr8rb.13369$E9.59@nwrddc01.gnilink.net...

If a body is alive by the works of man because the brain is dead
then

is

not

that person dead and the spirit that God gave has been returned
to God

for

safe keeping?

No one has mentioned a brain dead person.
A person who can move their eyes is not brain dead.
A person who can change expressions is not brain dead.

If that's as much as you can say then it can barely do anything at
all! But is it conscious? If it is then it is being tortured by
what
it is.

Many have "miraculously??" recovered. They have stated that they
were quite
aware and the primary pain they had was doctors inserting tubes
without
anesthetic. They had no desire to die. People who don't have a
life and
don't respect life always assume others would rather die.

Nazi (liberal, Democrat, Socialist) logic = "You would be better off
dead
than what you are. You are not as perfect as I am"