| Topic: |
Religions > Bible |
| User: |
"john w" |
| Date: |
08 Dec 2006 06:56:11 AM |
| Object: |
Re: Tongues pause not cease |
x-no-archive: yes
On Fri, 8 Dec 2006 12:10:08 +0100, "Georg Hanuschick"
<georghanuschick@tire.nospam.com> wrote:
© 2006 John Weatherly; all rights reserved; no portion of this
article may be used elsewhere without express written consent of the
author
The Bible does say "tongues shall pause" (I Corinthians 13:8) and nothing
more.
If your translation is wrong, this is your problem but the fact stays.
"Chellie" <TNotch1@aol.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:1161145631.147956.327640@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
Georg Hanuschick wrote:
The only evience is the biblical text (in the original greek). And Paul
says
in greek (1Cor), tongues (will) "pause". This does not mean "disappear"
or
"stay". It simply means pause and after this pause tongues will appear
again. Thats what the bible says. For all the know-it-alls: Pause is NOT
in
aorist. So pause is a ora (without time) what means, Paul does not give
any
information concerning when tongues pause.
For all your "breakdown of the Greek", there are simply too many
scholars who disagree. One notable one is Dr John AT Robinson.
Two notable treatments on the topic are "Your Mind Matters", and
"The Corinthian Catastrophe". Both available on Ebay or at your local
Christian bookstore.
What can be taken for sure is,
tongues wont last eternally nor are already gone when Paul write this.
Paul DID say that tongues had ceased as of 1 Cor 13. If you were not
of closed mind, it would be obvious. "When I was a child (baby
Christian), I spoke as a child (tongues); when I became a man (mature
Christian), I put away the childish things." (such as tongues)
Paul said "when I became a man, I put the childish things away." He
is as of 1 Cor 13, writing of something he DID IN THE PAST.
As of 1 Cor 13, Paul is saying he HAS ALREADY STOPPED speaking in
tongues. If you study the use of tongues in the infant church, it was
given as a sign that the apostles were of God. That was their ONLY
purpose.
Paul wrote to the Corinthians (1 Cor, 2 Cor) because as of 1 Cor 13,
they were ABUSING "tongues."
*************************************************************************************************************
The Bible does say "tongues shall cease" (I Corinthians 13:8) but my
question is at what time shall tongues cease?
If you were truly open to the Holy Spirit, Paul said in 1 Cor 13 that
"tongues have already ceased." "When I was a child (baby Christian),
I spoke as a child (tongues); when I became a man (mature Christian),
I put away the childish things."
He is speaking PAST TENSE. He has already stopped speaking in
tongues. The gift has already passed as of 1 Cor 13.
Many say it's now but
they are wrong for there are those who do speak in tongues (what if I
were to say I can speak in tongues) lead by the Holy Ghost.
If you were to claim that, then you would have proof. Correct?
Are you sure you are not confusing "glossolalia" (noise) with
"tongues" (which are KNOWN languages?)
So if
people are speaking in tongues now, then it means that the time for
tongues to cease isn't here yet.
It happens occasionally, but you are not likely experiencing genuine
tongues. If you are experiencing genuine tongues, please describe the
experience, and explain which known language that you have not studied
the Holy Spirit has given you.
Also, kindly stop cross-posting to so many groups! It makes it VERY
difficult to respond.
.
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| User: "duke" |
|
| Title: Re: Tongues pause not cease |
08 Dec 2006 07:44:06 AM |
|
|
On Fri, 08 Dec 2006 04:56:11 -0800, john w <johnw<no>@yoo.how> wrote:
As of 1 Cor 13, Paul is saying he HAS ALREADY STOPPED speaking in
tongues. If you study the use of tongues in the infant church, it was
given as a sign that the apostles were of God. That was their ONLY
purpose.
Only purpose to speak in tongues? Want to explain that and your understanding
of tongues? That sounds to me like you totally misunderstand tongues.
Paul wrote to the Corinthians (1 Cor, 2 Cor) because as of 1 Cor 13,
they were ABUSING "tongues."
duke, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
.
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| User: "Ronald More-More Moshki" |
|
| Title: Re: Tongues pause not cease |
08 Dec 2006 10:06:27 AM |
|
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duke wrote:
On Fri, 08 Dec 2006 04:56:11 -0800, john w <johnw<no>@yoo.how> wrote:
As of 1 Cor 13, Paul is saying he HAS ALREADY STOPPED speaking in
tongues. If you study the use of tongues in the infant church, it was
given as a sign that the apostles were of God. That was their ONLY
purpose.
Only purpose to speak in tongues? Want to explain that and your understanding
of tongues? That sounds to me like you totally misunderstand tongues.
Paul wrote to the Corinthians (1 Cor, 2 Cor) because as of 1 Cor 13,
they were ABUSING "tongues."
duke, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
Sick Willie have a 'speaking tongue'.
.
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| User: "john w" |
|
| Title: Re: Tongues pause not cease |
08 Dec 2006 09:29:11 AM |
|
|
x-no-archive: yes
On Fri, 08 Dec 2006 07:44:06 -0600, duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote:
© 2006 John Weatherly; all rights reserved; no portion of this
article may be used elsewhere without express written consent of the
author
On Fri, 08 Dec 2006 04:56:11 -0800, john w <johnw<no>@yoo.how> wrote:
As of 1 Cor 13, Paul is saying he HAS ALREADY STOPPED speaking in
tongues. If you study the use of tongues in the infant church, it was
given as a sign that the apostles were of God. That was their ONLY
purpose.
Only purpose to speak in tongues? Want to explain that and your understanding
of tongues?
No, I don't. Certainly not to a Roman Catholic troll who considers the
Mass the "perfect form of prayer."
john w
That sounds to me like you totally misunderstand tongues.
Paul wrote to the Corinthians (1 Cor, 2 Cor) because as of 1 Cor 13,
they were ABUSING "tongues."
duke, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
.
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| User: "TheGreatPumpkin" |
|
| Title: Re: Tongues pause not cease |
08 Dec 2006 09:29:46 AM |
|
|
john w wrote:
Paul DID say that tongues had ceased as of 1 Cor 13. If you were not
of closed mind, it would be obvious. "When I was a child (baby
Christian), I spoke as a child (tongues); when I became a man (mature
Christian), I put away the childish things." (such as tongues)
THAT is a Baptist teaching, and one of the best examples of twisting
Scripture ever. When I was a Baptist, that was the proper party line,
unfortunately, it's also changing the Word to mean something that isn't
there. Substituting "spoke as a child" and "childish things" to mean
"tongues" is reading into something at best and at worst, changing the
Word of God.
.
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| User: "JohnH" |
|
| Title: Re: Tongues pause not cease |
09 Dec 2006 09:17:29 PM |
|
|
john w wrote:
x-no-archive: yes
On Fri, 8 Dec 2006 12:10:08 +0100, "Georg Hanuschick"
<georghanuschick@tire.nospam.com> wrote:
=A9 2006 John Weatherly; all rights reserved; no portion of this
article may be used elsewhere without express written consent of the
author
The Bible does say "tongues shall pause" (I Corinthians 13:8) and nothing
more.
If your translation is wrong, this is your problem but the fact stays.
"Chellie" <TNotch1@aol.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:1161145631.147956.327640@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
Georg Hanuschick wrote:
The only evience is the biblical text (in the original greek). And Pa=
ul
says
in greek (1Cor), tongues (will) "pause". This does not mean "disappea=
r"
or
"stay". It simply means pause and after this pause tongues will appear
again. Thats what the bible says. For all the know-it-alls: Pause is =
NOT
in
aorist. So pause is a ora (without time) what means, Paul does not gi=
ve
any
information concerning when tongues pause.
For all your "breakdown of the Greek", there are simply too many
scholars who disagree. One notable one is Dr John AT Robinson.
Two notable treatments on the topic are "Your Mind Matters", and
"The Corinthian Catastrophe". Both available on Ebay or at your local
Christian bookstore.
What can be taken for sure is,
tongues wont last eternally nor are already gone when Paul write this.
Paul DID say that tongues had ceased as of 1 Cor 13. If you were not
of closed mind, it would be obvious. "When I was a child (baby
Christian), I spoke as a child (tongues); when I became a man (mature
Christian), I put away the childish things." (such as tongues)
Paul said "when I became a man, I put the childish things away." He
is as of 1 Cor 13, writing of something he DID IN THE PAST.
As of 1 Cor 13, Paul is saying he HAS ALREADY STOPPED speaking in
tongues. If you study the use of tongues in the infant church, it was
given as a sign that the apostles were of God. That was their ONLY
purpose.
Paul wrote to the Corinthians (1 Cor, 2 Cor) because as of 1 Cor 13,
they were ABUSING "tongues."
**********************************************************************=
***************************************
The Bible does say "tongues shall cease" (I Corinthians 13:8) but my
question is at what time shall tongues cease?
If you were truly open to the Holy Spirit, Paul said in 1 Cor 13 that
"tongues have already ceased." "When I was a child (baby Christian),
I spoke as a child (tongues); when I became a man (mature Christian),
I put away the childish things."
He is speaking PAST TENSE. He has already stopped speaking in
tongues. The gift has already passed as of 1 Cor 13.
Many say it's now but
they are wrong for there are those who do speak in tongues (what if I
were to say I can speak in tongues) lead by the Holy Ghost.
If you were to claim that, then you would have proof. Correct?
Are you sure you are not confusing "glossolalia" (noise) with
"tongues" (which are KNOWN languages?)
So if
people are speaking in tongues now, then it means that the time for
tongues to cease isn't here yet.
It happens occasionally, but you are not likely experiencing genuine
tongues. If you are experiencing genuine tongues, please describe the
experience, and explain which known language that you have not studied
the Holy Spirit has given you.
Also, kindly stop cross-posting to so many groups! It makes it VERY
difficult to respond.
1Co 13:8
(NIV) tongues, they will be stilled
(KJV) tongues, they shall cease
(ALT) tongues, they will cease
(AMP) tongues, they will be destroyed and cease
(ASV) tongues, they shall cease
(CEV) unknown languages will no longer be spoken
(Darby) tongues, they shall cease
(DRB) tongues shall cease
(EMTV) tongues, they shall cease
(ESV) tongues, they will cease
(GNB) strange tongues, but they will cease
(GW) speaking in other languages, but it will stop by itself
(HCSB) languages, they will cease
(HNV) languages, they will cease
(ISV) tongues, they will cease
(KJ21) tongues, they shall cease
(LITV) tongues, they shall cease
(MKJV) tongues, they shall cease
(MSG) tongues will end
(Murdock) tongues will be silent
(NASB) tongues, they will cease
(NKJV) tongues, they will cease
(NLT) unknown languages will become useless
(NLV) speaking in special sounds will be stopped
(RV) tongues, they shall cease
(WEB) various languages, they will cease
(Webster) languages, they shall cease
(WNT) languages, they will cease
(Wycliffe) languages shall cease
(YLT) tongues, they shall cease
Here we have 30 (count them) English Bible versions, including The
Message Bible, all (ALL) speaking in the future-tense. You, however,
now purport that Paul said, "tongues had ceased" and "tongues have
already ceased," both of which are, clearly, terms of past-tense.
Why on earth would anyone believe that your interpretation is correct,
despite what 30 Bibles actually say?
Can you provide references to Bible versions that have 1 Corinthians
13:8 speaking of tongues in the past-tense?
Has "knowledge" ceased? Well, has it?
=20
=20
.
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| User: "Georg Hanuschick" |
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| Title: Re: Tongues pause not cease |
08 Dec 2006 08:16:19 AM |
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you did not understand one word I wrote.
The Bible does say "tongues shall pause" (I Corinthians 13:8) and nothing
more.
If your translation (KJV) is wrong, this is your problem but the fact
stays.
N O T H I N G ceases.
Cease is a wrong translation of the Greek pauo/pause ! ! !
Understand this now.
.
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| User: "Azaliah" |
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| Title: Re: Tongues pause not cease |
08 Dec 2006 09:10:24 AM |
|
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On Fri, 8 Dec 2006 15:16:19 +0100, while bungee jumping,
"Georg Hanuschick" <georghanuschick@tire.nospam.com> shouted
thusly:
You did not understand one word I wrote.
The Bible does say "tongues shall pause" (I Corinthians 13:8)
and nothing more. If your translation (KJV) is wrong, this is
your problem but the fact stays.
N O T H I N G ceases.
Cease is a wrong translation of the Greek pauo/pause ! ! !
Understand this now.
Pauo (pow'-o) - A primn. verb (“pause”); to stop
(transitive or intransitive), that is, restrain, quit,
desist, come to an end: - cease, leave, refrain.
We do get our English word "pause" from this word,
but in common usage, it meant, "to make cease, or
to no longer be stirred, or to idle or unemployed".
And as you can see from the Strong's definition above,
it can be applied that way. And nowhere does Scripture
speak of them "picking back up", which one would
expect to be said, if only a pause is in mind.
Take a look at every passage in which this word is used
and see what they say. It always shows ceasing and
never just pausing. look at the following verse as an
example...
"After the uproar had ceased, Paul called the disciples to
himself, embraced them, and departed to go to Macedonia."
- Acts 20:1
This word is used in the following passages:
Luke 5:4; 8:24; 11:1
Acts 5:42; 6:13; 13:10; 20:1; 20:31 21:32
1 Corinthians 13:8
Ephesians 1:16
Colossians 1:19
Hebrews 10:2
1 Peter 3:10; 4:1
Never does it imply a "pausing". So you can try to make
claims based on technicalities, but the reality is, it simply
won't wash.
--
Azaliah (ats-al-yaw'-hoo) "Jah has reserved"
<((>< <((>< <((><
"Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth."
- John 17:17
..
.
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| User: "john w" |
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| Title: Re: Tongues pause not cease |
08 Dec 2006 09:34:16 AM |
|
|
x-no-archive: yes
On Fri, 8 Dec 2006 15:16:19 +0100, "Georg Hanuschick"
<georghanuschick@tire.nospam.com> wrote:
© 2006 John Weatherly; all rights reserved; no portion of this
article may be used elsewhere without express written consent of the
author
you did not understand one word I wrote.
Ummmmm.... you seem to be of the mis-impression that to understand
what you said is to agree with you.
I completely understand what you said. I completely disagree.
The Bible does say "tongues shall pause" (I Corinthians 13:8) and nothing
more.
In your opinion. Which too many scholars I know would not agree with.
Ask Dr John MacArthur what he thinks of your view. Ask Dr Holland
London, ask Dr Allan Stringfellow, ask Dr Jess Moody.
If your translation (KJV) is wrong, this is your problem but the fact
stays.
I don't use the KJV for any sort of informed study.
And you are certainly entitled to be mistaken. Which you are.
Now, the gift of tongues MAY reappear during the time of the 2
prophets, but that is a mere guess.
N O T H I N G ceases.
Funny. I don't see scripture being written today. That ceased.
I don't know anyone who claims that the modern day "gift of tongues"
is accompanied by the sound of the hurricane or the tongues of fire
(like at Pentecost), so those phenomenon also ceased.
Want to try again?
Cease is a wrong translation of the Greek pauo/pause ! ! !
In your opinion. And I know NO scholar who agrees.
I think you have simply been unfortunately TRICKED by the Pentecostals
(who I call "the Pretenders")
They want to justify their pretend "gifts."
Understand this now.
Sa- lute! Yes, SIR!
(sound of heels popping together)
.
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| User: "gatekeeper" |
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| Title: Re: Tongues pause not cease |
08 Dec 2006 07:34:07 PM |
|
|
john w wrote:
x-no-archive: yes
On Fri, 8 Dec 2006 15:16:19 +0100, "Georg Hanuschick"
<georghanuschick@tire.nospam.com> wrote:
=A9 2006 John Weatherly; all rights reserved; no portion of this
article may be used elsewhere without express written consent of the
author
you did not understand one word I wrote.
Ummmmm.... you seem to be of the mis-impression that to understand
what you said is to agree with you.
I completely understand what you said. I completely disagree.
The Bible does say "tongues shall pause" (I Corinthians 13:8) and nothing
more.
In your opinion. Which too many scholars I know would not agree with.
Ask Dr John MacArthur what he thinks of your view. Ask Dr Holland
London, ask Dr Allan Stringfellow, ask Dr Jess Moody.
If your translation (KJV) is wrong, this is your problem but the fact
stays.
I don't use the KJV for any sort of informed study.
And you are certainly entitled to be mistaken. Which you are.
Now, the gift of tongues MAY reappear during the time of the 2
prophets, but that is a mere guess.
N O T H I N G ceases.
Funny. I don't see scripture being written today. That ceased.
I don't know anyone who claims that the modern day "gift of tongues"
is accompanied by the sound of the hurricane or the tongues of fire
(like at Pentecost), so those phenomenon also ceased.
Want to try again?
Cease is a wrong translation of the Greek pauo/pause ! ! !
In your opinion. And I know NO scholar who agrees.
I think you have simply been unfortunately TRICKED by the Pentecostals
(who I call "the Pretenders")
They want to justify their pretend "gifts."
Understand this now.
Sa- lute! Yes, SIR!
(sound of heels popping together)
I would like to introduce myself, so if nothing else you can now say
that you know someone who has experienced the phenomenom of tongues of
fire while praying in Tongues! I was in a church service where when
the congregation started praying and worshipping in the Spirit,
suddenly there was a swirling cloud, flashing lights, over the heads of
the congregation! I could describe the light, like the firestorms seen
in the forest fires, or maybe like the northern lights, but swirling
around! There was no particular sound to be identified with the
phenomenom, other than the spontaneous worship of over 600 people
dancing and singing in the Spirit!
I was a sitting at the front of the church, front row, when the pastor
was leading the worship. When the congregation, started worshipping
spontaneously, the pastor suddenly came down off the platform and stood
right in front of me, with a look of suprise on his face! I turned
around and saw the light that he was looking at! He even ask me at
that time, if I saw what he was looking at! I agreed, but I at that
time did not understand what I was seeing, being new to this speaking
in tongues experience! Afterwards, the pastor and I spoke to one
another about this, and he explained that it was the Shekinah Glory of
God! The Tongues of Fire that were seen at Pentecost!
So I understand that you may not receive the testimony that I have
shared here, but I would hope that you would reconsider your
conclusions about the activity of the Holy Spirit during this current
age! I assure you that the Gift of Tongues has not ceased, and I could
share with you numerous other stories of this wonderful expression of
the Holy Spirit if you would like to hear them! I would also be glad
to consider with you your understanding of Scriptures which have led
you to this conclusion! I was involved in the dispensational teaching
of the Plymouth Brethren, when I spontaneously received the Babtism of
the Holy Spirit, while I was studying the Bible and praying about what
it meant! I had not personally seen or been exposed to the gift of
tongues, and in fact I had been taught, and never questioned that this
gift was not for today!
I assure you that this understanding was wrong, and based not in
Scripture, but the unbelief of those who did not want to accept that
Jesus is Lord of all, He can overide the natural processes that were
set in place during the creation, and which he subsequently over ruled
even at the Tower of Babel! We should not be surprised that the Holy
Spirit can now speak through men, using the expression known as
Speaking in Tongues! He is Soverign Lord, and the Speaking in Tongues
is a Sign that indicates that He has established His Kingdom in the
lives of Believers! The need of that Testimony will only be removed,
when the Body of Christ is Glorified, when that which is perfect is
come! Until then, we are not perfect! Then we will see face to Face!
Have you Seen Him Face to face?
The Eastgate is open, the King is in Residence! Whosoever will, may
come in!
Gatekeeper
.
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| User: "john w" |
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| Title: Re: Tongues pause not cease |
09 Dec 2006 11:19:26 PM |
|
|
x-no-archive: yes
On 8 Dec 2006 17:34:07 -0800, "gatekeeper"
<gatekeeper.eastgate@hotmail.com> wrote:
© 2006 John Weatherly; all rights reserved; no portion of this
article may be used elsewhere without express written consent of the
author
john w wrote:
x-no-archive: yes
On Fri, 8 Dec 2006 15:16:19 +0100, "Georg Hanuschick"
<georghanuschick@tire.nospam.com> wrote:
© 2006 John Weatherly; all rights reserved; no portion of this
article may be used elsewhere without express written consent of the
author
you did not understand one word I wrote.
Ummmmm.... you seem to be of the mis-impression that to understand
what you said is to agree with you.
I completely understand what you said. I completely disagree.
The Bible does say "tongues shall pause" (I Corinthians 13:8) and nothing
more.
In your opinion. Which too many scholars I know would not agree with.
Ask Dr John MacArthur what he thinks of your view. Ask Dr Holland
London, ask Dr Allan Stringfellow, ask Dr Jess Moody.
If your translation (KJV) is wrong, this is your problem but the fact
stays.
I don't use the KJV for any sort of informed study.
And you are certainly entitled to be mistaken. Which you are.
Now, the gift of tongues MAY reappear during the time of the 2
prophets, but that is a mere guess.
N O T H I N G ceases.
Funny. I don't see scripture being written today. That ceased.
I don't know anyone who claims that the modern day "gift of tongues"
is accompanied by the sound of the hurricane or the tongues of fire
(like at Pentecost), so those phenomenon also ceased.
Want to try again?
Cease is a wrong translation of the Greek pauo/pause ! ! !
In your opinion. And I know NO scholar who agrees.
I think you have simply been unfortunately TRICKED by the Pentecostals
(who I call "the Pretenders")
They want to justify their pretend "gifts."
Understand this now.
Sa- lute! Yes, SIR!
(sound of heels popping together)
I would like to introduce myself, so if nothing else you can now say
that you know someone who has experienced the phenomenom of tongues of
fire while praying in Tongues! I was in a church service where when
the congregation started praying and worshipping in the Spirit,
suddenly there was a swirling cloud, flashing lights, over the heads of
the congregation! I could describe the light, like the firestorms seen
in the forest fires, or maybe like the northern lights, but swirling
around! There was no particular sound to be identified with the
phenomenom, other than the spontaneous worship of over 600 people
dancing and singing in the Spirit!
I was a sitting at the front of the church, front row, when the pastor
was leading the worship. When the congregation, started worshipping
spontaneously, the pastor suddenly came down off the platform and stood
right in front of me, with a look of suprise on his face! I turned
around and saw the light that he was looking at! He even ask me at
that time, if I saw what he was looking at! I agreed, but I at that
time did not understand what I was seeing, being new to this speaking
in tongues experience! Afterwards, the pastor and I spoke to one
another about this, and he explained that it was the Shekinah Glory of
God! The Tongues of Fire that were seen at Pentecost!
So I understand that you may not receive the testimony that I have
shared here, but I would hope that you would reconsider your
conclusions about the activity of the Holy Spirit during this current
age! I assure you that the Gift of Tongues has not ceased, and I could
share with you numerous other stories of this wonderful expression of
the Holy Spirit if you would like to hear them! I would also be glad
to consider with you your understanding of Scriptures which have led
you to this conclusion! I was involved in the dispensational teaching
of the Plymouth Brethren, when I spontaneously received the Babtism of
the Holy Spirit, while I was studying the Bible and praying about what
it meant! I had not personally seen or been exposed to the gift of
tongues, and in fact I had been taught, and never questioned that this
gift was not for today!
I assure you that this understanding was wrong, and based not in
Scripture, but the unbelief of those who did not want to accept that
Jesus is Lord of all, He can overide the natural processes that were
set in place during the creation, and which he subsequently over ruled
even at the Tower of Babel! We should not be surprised that the Holy
Spirit can now speak through men, using the expression known as
Speaking in Tongues! He is Soverign Lord, and the Speaking in Tongues
is a Sign that indicates that He has established His Kingdom in the
lives of Believers! The need of that Testimony will only be removed,
when the Body of Christ is Glorified, when that which is perfect is
come! Until then, we are not perfect! Then we will see face to Face!
Have you Seen Him Face to face?
The Eastgate is open, the King is in Residence! Whosoever will, may
come in!
Gatekeeper
Interesting stuff. So explain to me something. If you are so full of
the Holy Spirit, and if He truly speaks through you, and if He truly
knows ALL languages, shy are you having so much difficulty with
English?
Why is not His Message Through YOU absolutely perfect?
That has always made me curious. God knows everything. That MUST
include that God knows IMPECCABLE English.
But your English is FAR from perfect.
???
Is He speaking through you, or isn't He?
john w
.
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| User: "gatekeeper" |
|
| Title: Re: Tongues pause not cease |
10 Dec 2006 03:06:12 AM |
|
|
john w wrote:
x-no-archive: yes
On 8 Dec 2006 17:34:07 -0800, "gatekeeper"
<gatekeeper.eastgate@hotmail.com> wrote:
=A9 2006 John Weatherly; all rights reserved; no portion of this
article may be used elsewhere without express written consent of the
author
john w wrote:
x-no-archive: yes
On Fri, 8 Dec 2006 15:16:19 +0100, "Georg Hanuschick"
<georghanuschick@tire.nospam.com> wrote:
=A9 2006 John Weatherly; all rights reserved; no portion of this
article may be used elsewhere without express written consent of the
author
you did not understand one word I wrote.
Ummmmm.... you seem to be of the mis-impression that to understand
what you said is to agree with you.
I completely understand what you said. I completely disagree.
The Bible does say "tongues shall pause" (I Corinthians 13:8) and not=
hing
more.
In your opinion. Which too many scholars I know would not agree with.
Ask Dr John MacArthur what he thinks of your view. Ask Dr Holland
London, ask Dr Allan Stringfellow, ask Dr Jess Moody.
If your translation (KJV) is wrong, this is your problem but the fact
stays.
I don't use the KJV for any sort of informed study.
And you are certainly entitled to be mistaken. Which you are.
Now, the gift of tongues MAY reappear during the time of the 2
prophets, but that is a mere guess.
N O T H I N G ceases.
Funny. I don't see scripture being written today. That ceased.
I don't know anyone who claims that the modern day "gift of tongues"
is accompanied by the sound of the hurricane or the tongues of fire
(like at Pentecost), so those phenomenon also ceased.
Want to try again?
Cease is a wrong translation of the Greek pauo/pause ! ! !
In your opinion. And I know NO scholar who agrees.
I think you have simply been unfortunately TRICKED by the Pentecostals
(who I call "the Pretenders")
They want to justify their pretend "gifts."
Understand this now.
Sa- lute! Yes, SIR!
(sound of heels popping together)
I would like to introduce myself, so if nothing else you can now say
that you know someone who has experienced the phenomenom of tongues of
fire while praying in Tongues! I was in a church service where when
the congregation started praying and worshipping in the Spirit,
suddenly there was a swirling cloud, flashing lights, over the heads of
the congregation! I could describe the light, like the firestorms seen
in the forest fires, or maybe like the northern lights, but swirling
around! There was no particular sound to be identified with the
phenomenom, other than the spontaneous worship of over 600 people
dancing and singing in the Spirit!
I was a sitting at the front of the church, front row, when the pastor
was leading the worship. When the congregation, started worshipping
spontaneously, the pastor suddenly came down off the platform and stood
right in front of me, with a look of suprise on his face! I turned
around and saw the light that he was looking at! He even ask me at
that time, if I saw what he was looking at! I agreed, but I at that
time did not understand what I was seeing, being new to this speaking
in tongues experience! Afterwards, the pastor and I spoke to one
another about this, and he explained that it was the Shekinah Glory of
God! The Tongues of Fire that were seen at Pentecost!
So I understand that you may not receive the testimony that I have
shared here, but I would hope that you would reconsider your
conclusions about the activity of the Holy Spirit during this current
age! I assure you that the Gift of Tongues has not ceased, and I could
share with you numerous other stories of this wonderful expression of
the Holy Spirit if you would like to hear them! I would also be glad
to consider with you your understanding of Scriptures which have led
you to this conclusion! I was involved in the dispensational teaching
of the Plymouth Brethren, when I spontaneously received the Babtism of
the Holy Spirit, while I was studying the Bible and praying about what
it meant! I had not personally seen or been exposed to the gift of
tongues, and in fact I had been taught, and never questioned that this
gift was not for today!
I assure you that this understanding was wrong, and based not in
Scripture, but the unbelief of those who did not want to accept that
Jesus is Lord of all, He can overide the natural processes that were
set in place during the creation, and which he subsequently over ruled
even at the Tower of Babel! We should not be surprised that the Holy
Spirit can now speak through men, using the expression known as
Speaking in Tongues! He is Soverign Lord, and the Speaking in Tongues
is a Sign that indicates that He has established His Kingdom in the
lives of Believers! The need of that Testimony will only be removed,
when the Body of Christ is Glorified, when that which is perfect is
come! Until then, we are not perfect! Then we will see face to Face!
Have you Seen Him Face to face?
The Eastgate is open, the King is in Residence! Whosoever will, may
come in!
Gatekeeper
Interesting stuff. So explain to me something. If you are so full of
the Holy Spirit, and if He truly speaks through you, and if He truly
knows ALL languages, shy are you having so much difficulty with
English?
Why is not His Message Through YOU absolutely perfect?
That has always made me curious. God knows everything. That MUST
include that God knows IMPECCABLE English.
But your English is FAR from perfect.
???
Is He speaking through you, or isn't He?
john w
I explained earlier, it is the cotton in your ears!:)
The Eastgate is open, the King is in Residence! Whosoever will, may
come in!
Gatekeeper
.
|
|
|
| User: "john w" |
|
| Title: Re: Tongues pause not cease |
10 Dec 2006 06:22:02 AM |
|
|
x-no-archive: yes
On 10 Dec 2006 01:06:12 -0800, "gatekeeper"
<gatekeeper.eastgate@hotmail.com> wrote:
© 2006 John Weatherly; all rights reserved; no portion of this
article may be used elsewhere without express written consent of the
author
john w wrote:
x-no-archive: yes
On 8 Dec 2006 17:34:07 -0800, "gatekeeper"
<gatekeeper.eastgate@hotmail.com> wrote:
© 2006 John Weatherly; all rights reserved; no portion of this
article may be used elsewhere without express written consent of the
author
john w wrote:
x-no-archive: yes
On Fri, 8 Dec 2006 15:16:19 +0100, "Georg Hanuschick"
<georghanuschick@tire.nospam.com> wrote:
© 2006 John Weatherly; all rights reserved; no portion of this
article may be used elsewhere without express written consent of the
author
you did not understand one word I wrote.
Ummmmm.... you seem to be of the mis-impression that to understand
what you said is to agree with you.
I completely understand what you said. I completely disagree.
The Bible does say "tongues shall pause" (I Corinthians 13:8) and nothing
more.
In your opinion. Which too many scholars I know would not agree with.
Ask Dr John MacArthur what he thinks of your view. Ask Dr Holland
London, ask Dr Allan Stringfellow, ask Dr Jess Moody.
If your translation (KJV) is wrong, this is your problem but the fact
stays.
I don't use the KJV for any sort of informed study.
And you are certainly entitled to be mistaken. Which you are.
Now, the gift of tongues MAY reappear during the time of the 2
prophets, but that is a mere guess.
N O T H I N G ceases.
Funny. I don't see scripture being written today. That ceased.
I don't know anyone who claims that the modern day "gift of tongues"
is accompanied by the sound of the hurricane or the tongues of fire
(like at Pentecost), so those phenomenon also ceased.
Want to try again?
Cease is a wrong translation of the Greek pauo/pause ! ! !
In your opinion. And I know NO scholar who agrees.
I think you have simply been unfortunately TRICKED by the Pentecostals
(who I call "the Pretenders")
They want to justify their pretend "gifts."
Understand this now.
Sa- lute! Yes, SIR!
(sound of heels popping together)
I would like to introduce myself, so if nothing else you can now say
that you know someone who has experienced the phenomenom of tongues of
fire while praying in Tongues! I was in a church service where when
the congregation started praying and worshipping in the Spirit,
suddenly there was a swirling cloud, flashing lights, over the heads of
the congregation! I could describe the light, like the firestorms seen
in the forest fires, or maybe like the northern lights, but swirling
around! There was no particular sound to be identified with the
phenomenom, other than the spontaneous worship of over 600 people
dancing and singing in the Spirit!
I was a sitting at the front of the church, front row, when the pastor
was leading the worship. When the congregation, started worshipping
spontaneously, the pastor suddenly came down off the platform and stood
right in front of me, with a look of suprise on his face! I turned
around and saw the light that he was looking at! He even ask me at
that time, if I saw what he was looking at! I agreed, but I at that
time did not understand what I was seeing, being new to this speaking
in tongues experience! Afterwards, the pastor and I spoke to one
another about this, and he explained that it was the Shekinah Glory of
God! The Tongues of Fire that were seen at Pentecost!
So I understand that you may not receive the testimony that I have
shared here, but I would hope that you would reconsider your
conclusions about the activity of the Holy Spirit during this current
age! I assure you that the Gift of Tongues has not ceased, and I could
share with you numerous other stories of this wonderful expression of
the Holy Spirit if you would like to hear them! I would also be glad
to consider with you your understanding of Scriptures which have led
you to this conclusion! I was involved in the dispensational teaching
of the Plymouth Brethren, when I spontaneously received the Babtism of
the Holy Spirit, while I was studying the Bible and praying about what
it meant! I had not personally seen or been exposed to the gift of
tongues, and in fact I had been taught, and never questioned that this
gift was not for today!
I assure you that this understanding was wrong, and based not in
Scripture, but the unbelief of those who did not want to accept that
Jesus is Lord of all, He can overide the natural processes that were
set in place during the creation, and which he subsequently over ruled
even at the Tower of Babel! We should not be surprised that the Holy
Spirit can now speak through men, using the expression known as
Speaking in Tongues! He is Soverign Lord, and the Speaking in Tongues
is a Sign that indicates that He has established His Kingdom in the
lives of Believers! The need of that Testimony will only be removed,
when the Body of Christ is Glorified, when that which is perfect is
come! Until then, we are not perfect! Then we will see face to Face!
Have you Seen Him Face to face?
The Eastgate is open, the King is in Residence! Whosoever will, may
come in!
Gatekeeper
Interesting stuff. So explain to me something. If you are so full of
the Holy Spirit, and if He truly speaks through you, and if He truly
knows ALL languages, shy are you having so much difficulty with
English?
Why is not His Message Through YOU absolutely perfect?
That has always made me curious. God knows everything. That MUST
include that God knows IMPECCABLE English.
But your English is FAR from perfect.
???
Is He speaking through you, or isn't He?
john w
I explained earlier, it is the cotton in your ears!:)
And you are so full of ***** that your eyes are brown, and I can SMELL
you in Seattle!
son of perdition!
john w
The Eastgate is open, the King is in Residence! Whosoever will, may
come in!
Gatekeeper
.
|
|
|
| User: "gatekeeper" |
|
| Title: Re: Tongues pause not cease |
11 Dec 2006 12:16:42 AM |
|
|
john w wrote:
x-no-archive: yes
On 10 Dec 2006 01:06:12 -0800, "gatekeeper"
<gatekeeper.eastgate@hotmail.com> wrote:
=A9 2006 John Weatherly; all rights reserved; no portion of this
article may be used elsewhere without express written consent of the
author
john w wrote:
x-no-archive: yes
On 8 Dec 2006 17:34:07 -0800, "gatekeeper"
<gatekeeper.eastgate@hotmail.com> wrote:
=A9 2006 John Weatherly; all rights reserved; no portion of this
article may be used elsewhere without express written consent of the
author
john w wrote:
x-no-archive: yes
On Fri, 8 Dec 2006 15:16:19 +0100, "Georg Hanuschick"
<georghanuschick@tire.nospam.com> wrote:
=A9 2006 John Weatherly; all rights reserved; no portion of this
article may be used elsewhere without express written consent of the
author
you did not understand one word I wrote.
Ummmmm.... you seem to be of the mis-impression that to understand
what you said is to agree with you.
I completely understand what you said. I completely disagree.
The Bible does say "tongues shall pause" (I Corinthians 13:8) and =
nothing
more.
In your opinion. Which too many scholars I know would not agree wi=
th.
Ask Dr John MacArthur what he thinks of your view. Ask Dr Holland
London, ask Dr Allan Stringfellow, ask Dr Jess Moody.
If your translation (KJV) is wrong, this is your problem but the =
fact
stays.
I don't use the KJV for any sort of informed study.
And you are certainly entitled to be mistaken. Which you are.
Now, the gift of tongues MAY reappear during the time of the 2
prophets, but that is a mere guess.
N O T H I N G ceases.
Funny. I don't see scripture being written today. That ceased.
I don't know anyone who claims that the modern day "gift of tongu=
es"
is accompanied by the sound of the hurricane or the tongues of fire
(like at Pentecost), so those phenomenon also ceased.
Want to try again?
Cease is a wrong translation of the Greek pauo/pause ! ! !
In your opinion. And I know NO scholar who agrees.
I think you have simply been unfortunately TRICKED by the Pentecost=
als
(who I call "the Pretenders")
They want to justify their pretend "gifts."
Understand this now.
Sa- lute! Yes, SIR!
(sound of heels popping together)
I would like to introduce myself, so if nothing else you can now say
that you know someone who has experienced the phenomenom of tongues of
fire while praying in Tongues! I was in a church service where when
the congregation started praying and worshipping in the Spirit,
suddenly there was a swirling cloud, flashing lights, over the heads =
of
the congregation! I could describe the light, like the firestorms se=
en
in the forest fires, or maybe like the northern lights, but swirling
around! There was no particular sound to be identified with the
phenomenom, other than the spontaneous worship of over 600 people
dancing and singing in the Spirit!
I was a sitting at the front of the church, front row, when the pastor
was leading the worship. When the congregation, started worshipping
spontaneously, the pastor suddenly came down off the platform and sto=
od
right in front of me, with a look of suprise on his face! I turned
around and saw the light that he was looking at! He even ask me at
that time, if I saw what he was looking at! I agreed, but I at that
time did not understand what I was seeing, being new to this speaking
in tongues experience! Afterwards, the pastor and I spoke to one
another about this, and he explained that it was the Shekinah Glory of
God! The Tongues of Fire that were seen at Pentecost!
So I understand that you may not receive the testimony that I have
shared here, but I would hope that you would reconsider your
conclusions about the activity of the Holy Spirit during this current
age! I assure you that the Gift of Tongues has not ceased, and I cou=
ld
share with you numerous other stories of this wonderful expression of
the Holy Spirit if you would like to hear them! I would also be glad
to consider with you your understanding of Scriptures which have led
you to this conclusion! I was involved in the dispensational teaching
of the Plymouth Brethren, when I spontaneously received the Babtism of
the Holy Spirit, while I was studying the Bible and praying about what
it meant! I had not personally seen or been exposed to the gift of
tongues, and in fact I had been taught, and never questioned that this
gift was not for today!
I assure you that this understanding was wrong, and based not in
Scripture, but the unbelief of those who did not want to accept that
Jesus is Lord of all, He can overide the natural processes that were
set in place during the creation, and which he subsequently over ruled
even at the Tower of Babel! We should not be surprised that the Holy
Spirit can now speak through men, using the expression known as
Speaking in Tongues! He is Soverign Lord, and the Speaking in Tongues
is a Sign that indicates that He has established His Kingdom in the
lives of Believers! The need of that Testimony will only be removed,
when the Body of Christ is Glorified, when that which is perfect is
come! Until then, we are not perfect! Then we will see face to Face!
Have you Seen Him Face to face?
The Eastgate is open, the King is in Residence! Whosoever will, may
come in!
Gatekeeper
Interesting stuff. So explain to me something. If you are so full of
the Holy Spirit, and if He truly speaks through you, and if He truly
knows ALL languages, shy are you having so much difficulty with
English?
Why is not His Message Through YOU absolutely perfect?
That has always made me curious. God knows everything. That MUST
include that God knows IMPECCABLE English.
But your English is FAR from perfect.
???
Is He speaking through you, or isn't He?
As a Christian, have you not also received the Baptism of the Holy
Spirit, does this affect your English to be perfect? Is His message
through you always perfect? Do you know all mysteries?
Just because a believer has the Gift of speaking in tongues, that does
not mean that he is perfect, or that God is done working in his life.
Matter of fact, it is more likely that the cone zone is just being put
in place, and the construction just getting started!
john w
I explained earlier, it is the cotton in your ears!:)
And you are so full of ***** that your eyes are brown, and I can SMELL
you in Seattle!
son of perdition!
john w
The Eastgate is open, the King is in Residence! Whosoever will, may
come in!
Gatekeeper
Is that the sweet Spirit of Christ speaking through you! It would
appear, 60 years of learning of His Grace and Love have not found much
fertile ground! All this because I do not agree with you?
Do you live in Seattle? Such a beautiful place, I would think you would
have a better disposition just for living there! If the rest of the
real world causes you such grief, you should just not venture out of
there, lest you lose your salvation over a few words!
The Eastgate is open, the King is in Residence! Whosoever will, may
come in!
Gatekeeper
.
|
|
|
| User: "TheGreatPumpkin" |
|
| Title: Re: Tongues pause not cease |
11 Dec 2006 12:41:15 AM |
|
|
gatekeeper wrote:
If the rest of the
real world causes you such grief, you should just not venture out of
there, lest you lose your salvation over a few words!
It's not possible to "lose your salvation over a few words". Once you
are a child of the King, "no one can snatch [you] out of [His] hand".
Whosoever will, may come in!
And once they're in, they're there for eternity. The Landlord doesn't
kick those who are His out.
.
|
|
|
| User: "gatekeeper" |
|
| Title: Re: Tongues pause not cease |
11 Dec 2006 01:13:06 AM |
|
|
TheGreatPumpkin wrote:
gatekeeper wrote:
If the rest of the
real world causes you such grief, you should just not venture out of
there, lest you lose your salvation over a few words!
It's not possible to "lose your salvation over a few words". Once you
are a child of the King, "no one can snatch [you] out of [His] hand".
Whosoever will, may come in!
And once they're in, they're there for eternity. The Landlord doesn't
kick those who are His out.
Agreed, but then I thought I could really get the old man all stirred
up there in Seattle! But then you are an old baptist also, so don't go
getting all excited, you may start speaking in tongues like John W did!
That was some gibberish he cut loose with, I don't know if we really
should interpret though!
The Eastgate is open, the King is in Residence! Whosoever will, may
come in!
Gatekeeper
.
|
|
|
| User: "john w" |
|
| Title: Re: Tongues pause not cease |
11 Dec 2006 02:25:14 AM |
|
|
x-no-archive: yes
On 10 Dec 2006 23:13:06 -0800, "gatekeeper"
<gatekeeper.eastgate@hotmail.com> wrote:
© 2006 John Weatherly; all rights reserved; no portion of this
article may be used elsewhere without express written consent of the
author
TheGreatPumpkin wrote:
gatekeeper wrote:
If the rest of the
real world causes you such grief, you should just not venture out of
there, lest you lose your salvation over a few words!
It's not possible to "lose your salvation over a few words". Once you
are a child of the King, "no one can snatch [you] out of [His] hand".
Whosoever will, may come in!
And once they're in, they're there for eternity. The Landlord doesn't
kick those who are His out.
Agreed, but then I thought I could really get the old man all stirred
up there in Seattle! But then you are an old baptist also, so don't go
getting all excited, you may start speaking in tongues like John W did!
Do you understand the blasphemy you commit when you ridicule the gifts
in the manner you are doing?
As Dr Charlie Shedd says, "You don't break God's laws! They break
you!"
You need to repent! You just showed a TERRIBLE and ungodly attitude
towards PRECIOUS spiritual gifts!
Just because I don't believe they are in use today--- just because I
don't see any "sign gifts" today, dose not mean I disrespect them!
Disrespect YOU is something else! You have also made several comments
now in which you have OPELNY disrespected your spiritual/chronological
elder. (me)
You have some repenting to do!
As my mom used to say, "Don't knock old age; we don't all get there!"
That was some gibberish he cut loose with, I don't know if we really
should interpret though!
The Eastgate is open, the King is in Residence! Whosoever will, may
come in!
Gatekeeper
.
|
|
|
| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: Tongues pause not cease |
14 Dec 2006 08:53:56 AM |
|
|
In <u95qn215dpel6rqv9jd7a42ve70g98vf3v@4ax.com>, on 12/11/06
at 12:25 AM, john w <johnw<no>@yoo.how> scrunched up his eyes, & with a
wail all out of proportion to his size, caterwauled the following and was
very impressed with himself as he crossposted from all.bible
From: john w <johnw<no>@yoo.how>
Newsgroups:
alt.bible,alt.christnet.bible,alt.christnet.calvinist,alt.religion.christian,alt.religion.christian.baptist
Subject: Re: Tongues pause not cease
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2006 00:25:14 -0800
Message-ID: <u95qn215dpel6rqv9jd7a42ve70g98vf3v@4ax.com>
References: <elbs3k$6b3$2@daniel-new.mch.sbs.de>
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<1165741572.444877.3600@79g2000cws.googlegroups.com>
<3uunn2p39qli8tdiea0c2eu9qu1r1t9td5@4ax.com>
<1165817802.579718.201700@n67g2000cwd.googlegroups.com>
<1165819275.418586.225050@16g2000cwy.googlegroups.com>
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x-no-archive: yes
On 10 Dec 2006 23:13:06 -0800, "gatekeeper"
<gatekeeper.eastgate@hotmail.com> wrote:
© 2006 John Weatherly; all rights reserved; no portion of this article
may be used elsewhere without express written consent of the author
TheGreatPumpkin wrote:
gatekeeper wrote:
snip
Agreed, but then I thought I could really get the old man all stirred
up there in Seattle! But then you are an old baptist also, so don't go
getting all excited, you may start speaking in tongues like John W did!
Do you understand the blasphemy you commit when you ridicule the gifts in
the manner you are doing?
Do you understand, or are you capable of understanding, that blasphemy is
a victimless crime, or to put it another way, as the old Romans did, if
the gods take offense, let them extract retribution.
As Dr Charlie Shedd says, "You don't break God's laws! They break you!"
The old argument from might makes right, which is nothing but I very
thinly veiled threat. However, the threat to have any meaning, there has
to be a reality associated with it. Your version of reality is not
compatible with the reality accepted by the majority of humanity.
You need to repent! You just showed a TERRIBLE and ungodly attitude
towards PRECIOUS spiritual gifts!
And you have just shown your ignorance about your mythology. The only way
to blasphemy is to call spooky on the carpet into his ethereal butt out.
This of course is it according to your favorite fantasy, but then, you
think your fantasy is applicable to everybody whether they believe it or
not. Talk about arrogance.
Just because I don't believe they are in use today--- just because I
don't see any "sign gifts" today, dose not mean I disrespect them!
Of course you don't, you're not going to take any chance on getting kicked
out of your heaven, quite possibly one of the worst heavens invented by
humanity. But it is good enough for you for it gives you the chance to
stroke your vanity.
Disrespect YOU is something else! You have also made several comments
now in which you have OPELNY disrespected your spiritual/chronological
elder. (me)
To be given respect, one must earn respect, something that you are a
stellar failure in doing. You have earned nothing but contempt and
disdain to date, which of course is as good as you can do.
You have some repenting to do!
When will you start, or do you even know how?
As my mom used to say, "Don't knock old age; we don't all get there!"
And your mother probably also said, *small children should seldom be seen
and never heard*, a saying you violate with impunity, or total ignorance,
one can never be sure in your case.
Which wannabe this time Johnnie, the one that pretends that he is wise due
to his age, what along the pretense did it his age, he really is as
ignorant as it pretends to be? Either way, you're doing a good job of
showing the audience that you really have nothing to offer, in spite of
your little ploys for attention.
walksalone who would never have the gall to assume he speaks for everybody
on the planet, let alone people that happened to believe as he does. But
then, I'm not a xian or any other variety of theist so I have nothing to
peddle and pretend that I have something that gives me superiority or
others that do not have whatever it is I would think I had.
Camels and Christians receive their burdens kneeling.
-- Ambrose Bierce, quoted from James A. Haught, ed., 2000 Years of
Disbelief
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "gatekeeper" |
|
| Title: Re: Tongues pause not cease |
11 Dec 2006 11:04:43 AM |
|
|
john w wrote:
x-no-archive: yes
On 10 Dec 2006 23:13:06 -0800, "gatekeeper"
<gatekeeper.eastgate@hotmail.com> wrote:
=A9 2006 John Weatherly; all rights reserved; no portion of this
article may be used elsewhere without express written consent of the
author
TheGreatPumpkin wrote:
gatekeeper wrote:
If the rest of the
real world causes you such grief, you should just not venture out of
there, lest you lose your salvation over a few words!
It's not possible to "lose your salvation over a few words". Once you
are a child of the King, "no one can snatch [you] out of [His] hand".
Whosoever will, may come in!
And once they're in, they're there for eternity. The Landlord doesn't
kick those who are His out.
Agreed, but then I thought I could really get the old man all stirred
up there in Seattle! But then you are an old baptist also, so don't go
getting all excited, you may start speaking in tongues like John W did!
Do you understand the blasphemy you commit when you ridicule the gifts
in the manner you are doing?
I am not ridiculing the Gifts, I am ridiculing you! and your unbelief
in the very gifts that you now claim you are the defenders of! You are
a hoot!
As Dr Charlie Shedd says, "You don't break God's laws! They break
you!"
You need to repent! You just showed a TERRIBLE and ungodly attitude
towards PRECIOUS spiritual gifts!
Just because I don't believe they are in use today--- just because I
don't see any "sign gifts" today, dose not mean I disrespect them!
Disrespect YOU is something else! You have also made several comments
now in which you have OPELNY disrespected your spiritual/chronological
elder. (me)
You have some repenting to do!
As my mom used to say, "Don't knock old age; we don't all get there!"
You old coot, I am also almost 60, so get off your high horse like you
have done something special! God gives you the measure of your days,
so that even this is not something you should boast in! But I learn,
that you do love to boast about your accomplishments and credentials,
and that is what this thread was ever really about!
That was some gibberish he cut loose with, I don't know if we really
should interpret though!
The Eastgate is open, the King is in Residence! Whosoever will, may
come in!
Gatekeeper
More unbelief by John W! Whose main claim to respect is that he is an
old man! A spiritual/chronological elder, that never made it out of
the desert into the promised land, because there are giants in the
land, and we are but grasshoppers! Go wander some more John W, go take
another trip around Mt. Sinai! You will get another year older, and
you still won't be in the promised land!
Now he does believe in the Law, that it will break us!
He does believe his mom!
He just does not believe the Word of God! Inspite of all his spouting
to the contrary!
Now he does cherish the Gifts, as long as he can keep them all wrapped
up and out of sight! As long as you have a good attitude towards the
Gifts of God, you are ok! Just don't let them out of the bag where
they will actually work and do some good!
Oh if they do some good, then deny that also, for they are not suppose
to be doing any good today! So any good they do must be of the Devil!
So the bottom line is that if you are older than John W then he will
listen to you and believe any ole hooey you choose to shovel his way,
just because you are his spiritual/ chronological elder! Otherwise, he
expect you to just suck up any hooey he shovels your way! That sounds
biblical? Right? Wrong!
The Eastgate is open, the King is in Residence! Whosoever will, may
come in!
Gatekeeper
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| User: "john w" |
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| Title: Re: Tongues pause not cease |
11 Dec 2006 02:21:56 AM |
|
|
x-no-archive: yes
On 10 Dec 2006 22:16:42 -0800, "gatekeeper"
<gatekeeper.eastgate@hotmail.com> wrote:
© 2006 John Weatherly; all rights reserved; no portion of this
article may be used elsewhere without express written consent of the
author
john w wrote:
x-no-archive: yes
On 10 Dec 2006 01:06:12 -0800, "gatekeeper"
<gatekeeper.eastgate@hotmail.com> wrote:
© 2006 John Weatherly; all rights reserved; no portion of this
article may be used elsewhere without express written consent of the
author
john w wrote:
x-no-archive: yes
On 8 Dec 2006 17:34:07 -0800, "gatekeeper"
<gatekeeper.eastgate@hotmail.com> wrote:
© 2006 John Weatherly; all rights reserved; no portion of this
article may be used elsewhere without express written consent of the
author
john w wrote:
x-no-archive: yes
On Fri, 8 Dec 2006 15:16:19 +0100, "Georg Hanuschick"
<georghanuschick@tire.nospam.com> wrote:
© 2006 John Weatherly; all rights reserved; no portion of this
article may be used elsewhere without express written consent of the
author
you did not understand one word I wrote.
Ummmmm.... you seem to be of the mis-impression that to understand
what you said is to agree with you.
I completely understand what you said. I completely disagree.
The Bible does say "tongues shall pause" (I Corinthians 13:8) and nothing
more.
In your opinion. Which too many scholars I know would not agree with.
Ask Dr John MacArthur what he thinks of your view. Ask Dr Holland
London, ask Dr Allan Stringfellow, ask Dr Jess Moody.
If your translation (KJV) is wrong, this is your problem but the fact
stays.
I don't use the KJV for any sort of informed study.
And you are certainly entitled to be mistaken. Which you are.
Now, the gift of tongues MAY reappear during the time of the 2
prophets, but that is a mere guess.
N O T H I N G ceases.
Funny. I don't see scripture being written today. That ceased.
I don't know anyone who claims that the modern day "gift of tongues"
is accompanied by the sound of the hurricane or the tongues of fire
(like at Pentecost), so those phenomenon also ceased.
Want to try again?
Cease is a wrong translation of the Greek pauo/pause ! ! !
In your opinion. And I know NO scholar who agrees.
I think you have simply been unfortunately TRICKED by the Pentecostals
(who I call "the Pretenders")
They want to justify their pretend "gifts."
Understand this now.
Sa- lute! Yes, SIR!
(sound of heels popping together)
I would like to introduce myself, so if nothing else you can now say
that you know someone who has experienced the phenomenom of tongues of
fire while praying in Tongues! I was in a church service where when
the congregation started praying and worshipping in the Spirit,
suddenly there was a swirling cloud, flashing lights, over the heads of
the congregation! I could describe the light, like the firestorms seen
in the forest fires, or maybe like the northern lights, but swirling
around! There was no particular sound to be identified with the
phenomenom, other than the spontaneous worship of over 600 people
dancing and singing in the Spirit!
I was a sitting at the front of the church, front row, when the pastor
was leading the worship. When the congregation, started worshipping
spontaneously, the pastor suddenly came down off the platform and stood
right in front of me, with a look of suprise on his face! I turned
around and saw the light that he was looking at! He even ask me at
that time, if I saw what he was looking at! I agreed, but I at that
time did not understand what I was seeing, being new to this speaking
in tongues experience! Afterwards, the pastor and I spoke to one
another about this, and he explained that it was the Shekinah Glory of
God! The Tongues of Fire that were seen at Pentecost!
So I understand that you may not receive the testimony that I have
shared here, but I would hope that you would reconsider your
conclusions about the activity of the Holy Spirit during this current
age! I assure you that the Gift of Tongues has not ceased, and I could
share with you numerous other stories of this wonderful expression of
the Holy Spirit if you would like to hear them! I would also be glad
to consider with you your understanding of Scriptures which have led
you to this conclusion! I was involved in the dispensational teaching
of the Plymouth Brethren, when I spontaneously received the Babtism of
the Holy Spirit, while I was studying the Bible and praying about what
it meant! I had not personally seen or been exposed to the gift of
tongues, and in fact I had been taught, and never questioned that this
gift was not for today!
I assure you that this understanding was wrong, and based not in
Scripture, but the unbelief of those who did not want to accept that
Jesus is Lord of all, He can overide the natural processes that were
set in place during the creation, and which he subsequently over ruled
even at the Tower of Babel! We should not be surprised that the Holy
Spirit can now speak through men, using the expression known as
Speaking in Tongues! He is Soverign Lord, and the Speaking in Tongues
is a Sign that indicates that He has established His Kingdom in the
lives of Believers! The need of that Testimony will only be removed,
when the Body of Christ is Glorified, when that which is perfect is
come! Until then, we are not perfect! Then we will see face to Face!
Have you Seen Him Face to face?
The Eastgate is open, the King is in Residence! Whosoever will, may
come in!
Gatekeeper
Interesting stuff. So explain to me something. If you are so full of
the Holy Spirit, and if He truly speaks through you, and if He truly
knows ALL languages, shy are you having so much difficulty with
English?
Why is not His Message Through YOU absolutely perfect?
That has always made me curious. God knows everything. That MUST
include that God knows IMPECCABLE English.
But your English is FAR from perfect.
???
Is He speaking through you, or isn't He?
As a Christian, have you not also received the Baptism of the Holy
Spirit, does this affect your English to be perfect? Is His message
through you always perfect? Do you know all mysteries?
Just because a believer has the Gift of speaking in tongues, that does
not mean that he is perfect, or that God is done working in his life.
Matter of fact, it is more likely that the cone zone is just being put
in place, and the construction just getting started!
john w
I explained earlier, it is the cotton in your ears!:)
And you are so full of ***** that your eyes are brown, and I can SMELL
you in Seattle!
son of perdition!
john w
The Eastgate is open, the King is in Residence! Whosoever will, may
come in!
Gatekeeper
Is that the sweet Spirit of Christ speaking through you!
I see several passages in the New Testament-- specifically in the Acts
and epistles, where the Spirit became so offended and ENRAGED, HE
struck people dead!
Jesus very angrily rebuked any number of people, and a number of
scholars believe HIS words were "cleaned up" for publication!
Paul cursed himself, and Peter cursed his misbehavior in denying the
Christ!
I openly REBUKE your anti-scriptural attitude. That is MY calling!
If you don't wish to be openly, publicly rebuked for TWISTING the
scriptures and MIS-using the Holy Spirit..
Don't do it!
I doubt very seriously if YOU could teach me anything about scripture
or how the Spirit works that I have not learned or EXPERIENCED.
And your "take" on 'tongues" is UTTERLY unscriptural!
I REPEAT, if you BOTHERED to look up ALL the teaching on tongues, and
NOT just the ones you LIKE, you'd see,
"tongues are a sign to them who DO NOT believe, not to those who DO
believe!"
You will NOT find "your use" of "tongues" in scripture!
And as I said day one, scripture is the test, NOT your experience!
And if you foolishly think my saying one word you don't like is going
to keep me out of heaven!
roll on the floor laughing!
Do you think Peter is in Heaven?
I don't!
By YOUR reckoning, he denied Jesus THREE TIMES!
john w
.
|
|
|
| User: "gatekeeper" |
|
| Title: Re: Tongues pause not cease |
11 Dec 2006 11:27:21 AM |
|
|
john w wrote:
x-no-archive: yes
On 10 Dec 2006 22:16:42 -0800, "gatekeeper"
<gatekeeper.eastgate@hotmail.com> wrote:
=A9 2006 John Weatherly; all rights reserved; no portion of this
article may be used elsewhere without express written consent of the
author
john w wrote:
x-no-archive: yes
On 10 Dec 2006 01:06:12 -0800, "gatekeeper"
<gatekeeper.eastgate@hotmail.com> wrote:
=A9 2006 John Weatherly; all rights reserved; no portion of this
article may be used elsewhere without express written consent of the
author
john w wrote:
x-no-archive: yes
On 8 Dec 2006 17:34:07 -0800, "gatekeeper"
<gatekeeper.eastgate@hotmail.com> wrote:
=A9 2006 John Weatherly; all rights reserved; no portion of this
article may be used elsewhere without express written consent of the
author
john w wrote:
x-no-archive: yes
On Fri, 8 Dec 2006 15:16:19 +0100, "Georg Hanuschick"
<georghanuschick@tire.nospam.com> wrote:
=A9 2006 John Weatherly; all rights reserved; no portion of this
article may be used elsewhere without express written consent of=
the
author
you did not understand one word I wrote.
Ummmmm.... you seem to be of the mis-impression that to understa=
nd
what you said is to agree with you.
I completely understand what you said. I completely disagree.
The Bible does say "tongues shall pause" (I Corinthians 13:8) a=
nd nothing
more.
In your opinion. Which too many scholars I know would not agree=
with.
Ask Dr John MacArthur what he thinks of your view. Ask Dr Holl=
and
London, ask Dr Allan Stringfellow, ask Dr Jess Moody.
If your translation (KJV) is wrong, this is your problem but t=
he fact
stays.
I don't use the KJV for any sort of informed study.
And you are certainly entitled to be mistaken. Which you are.
Now, the gift of tongues MAY reappear during the time of the 2
prophets, but that is a mere guess.
N O T H I N G ceases.
Funny. I don't see scripture being written today. That ceased.
I don't know anyone who claims that the modern day "gift of to=
ngues"
is accompanied by the sound of the hurricane or the tongues of f=
ire
(like at Pentecost), so those phenomenon also ceased.
Want to try again?
Cease is a wrong translation of the Greek pauo/pause ! ! !
In your opinion. And I know NO scholar who agrees.
I think you have simply been unfortunately TRICKED by the Pentec=
ostals
(who I call "the Pretenders")
They want to justify their pretend "gifts."
Understand this now.
Sa- lute! Yes, SIR!
(sound of heels popping together)
I would like to introduce myself, so if nothing else you can now s=
ay
that you know someone who has experienced the phenomenom of tongue=
s of
fire while praying in Tongues! I was in a church service where wh=
en
the congregation started praying and worshipping in the Spirit,
suddenly there was a swirling cloud, flashing lights, over the hea=
ds of
the congregation! I could describe the light, like the firestorms=
seen
in the forest fires, or maybe like the northern lights, but swirli=
ng
around! There was no particular sound to be identified with the
phenomenom, other than the spontaneous worship of over 600 people
dancing and singing in the Spirit!
I was a sitting at the front of the church, front row, when the pa=
stor
was leading the worship. When the congregation, started worshippi=
ng
spontaneously, the pastor suddenly came down off the platform and =
stood
right in front of me, with a look of suprise on his face! I turned
around and saw the light that he was looking at! He even ask me at
that time, if I saw what he was looking at! I agreed, but I at th=
at
time did not understand what I was seeing, being new to this speak=
ing
in tongues experience! Afterwards, the pastor and I spoke to one
another about this, and he explained that it was the Shekinah Glor=
y of
God! The Tongues of Fire that were seen at Pentecost!
So I understand that you may not receive the testimony that I have
shared here, but I would hope that you would reconsider your
conclusions about the activity of the Holy Spirit during this curr=
ent
age! I assure you that the Gift of Tongues has not ceased, and I =
could
share with you numerous other stories of this wonderful expression=
of
the Holy Spirit if you would like to hear them! I would also be g=
lad
to consider with you your understanding of Scriptures which have l=
ed
you to this conclusion! I was involved in the dispensational teac=
hing
of the Plymouth Brethren, when I spontaneously received the Babtis=
m of
the Holy Spirit, while I was studying the Bible and praying about =
what
it meant! I had not personally seen or been exposed to the gift =
of
tongues, and in fact I had been taught, and never questioned that =
this
gift was not for today!
I assure you that this understanding was wrong, and based not in
Scripture, but the unbelief of those who did not want to accept th=
at
Jesus is Lord of all, He can overide the natural processes that w=
ere
set in place during the creation, and which he subsequently over r=
uled
even at the Tower of Babel! We should not be surprised that the H=
oly
Spirit can now speak through men, using the expression known as
Speaking in Tongues! He is Soverign Lord, and the Speaking in Ton=
gues
is a Sign that indicates that He has established His Kingdom in the
lives of Believers! The need of that Testimony will only be remov=
ed,
when the Body of Christ is Glorified, when that which is perfect is
come! Until then, we are not perfect! Then we will see face to F=
ace!
Have you Seen Him Face to face?
The Eastgate is open, the King is in Residence! Whosoever will, m=
ay
come in!
Gatekeeper
Interesting stuff. So explain to me something. If you are so full =
of
the Holy Spirit, and if He truly speaks through you, and if He truly
knows ALL languages, shy are you having so much difficulty with
English?
Why is not His Message Through YOU absolutely perfect?
That has always made me curious. God knows everything. That MUST
include that God knows IMPECCABLE English.
But your English is FAR from perfect.
???
Is He speaking through you, or isn't He?
As a Christian, have you not also received the Baptism of the Holy
Spirit, does this affect your English to be perfect? Is His message
through you always perfect? Do you know all mysteries?
Just because a believer has the Gift of speaking in tongues, that does
not mean that he is perfect, or that God is done working in his life.
Matter of fact, it is more likely that the cone zone is just being put
in place, and the construction just getting started!
john w
I explained earlier, it is the cotton in your ears!:)
And you are so full of ***** that your eyes are brown, and I can SMELL
you in Seattle!
son of perdition!
john w
The Eastgate is open, the King is in Residence! Whosoever will, may
come in!
Gatekeeper
Is that the sweet Spirit of Christ speaking through you!
I see several passages in the New Testament-- specifically in the Acts
and epistles, where the Spirit became so offended and ENRAGED, HE
struck people dead!
Jesus very angrily rebuked any number of people, and a number of
scholars believe HIS words were "cleaned up" for publication!
Paul cursed himself, and Peter cursed his misbehavior in denying the
Christ!
And if you curse yourself is one thing, for you to curse someone else,
is not scriptural, and puts you in danger of the judgement! If you
curse a fellow believer, then you will be judge with the judgement you
mete out! Even so the evidence is that the judgement has already begun!
I openly REBUKE your anti-scriptural attitude. That is MY calling!
If you don't wish to be openly, publicly rebuked for TWISTING the
scriptures and MIS-using the Holy Spirit..
And my Calling is to openly and publicly share the good things that I
have seen and heard the Holy Spirit do in setting the captives free! I
have seen many turn to the Lord in repentence and seek His forgiveness!
I have seen a few healed miraculouly, even the dead being raised! I
have seen blind eye see where there were no eye balls before, and now
there are eyes! I have seen crippled and lame walk aright and whole!
I have seen cancer and diabetes, diagnosed by Drs, healed instantly
with no use of medicine! I have seen Demons cast out! And yet what I
rejoice in is not that I speak in tongues, but that my name is written
in the Lamb's book of Life!
Don't do it!
I do not do what you say, so I can not stop doing these things!
I doubt very seriously if YOU could teach me anything about scripture
or how the Spirit works that I have not learned or EXPERIENCED.
This I do not doubt!
And your "take" on 'tongues" is UTTERLY unscriptural!
So you believe!
I REPEAT, if you BOTHERED to look up ALL the teaching on tongues, and
NOT just the ones you LIKE, you'd see,
"tongues are a sign to them who DO NOT believe, not to those who DO
believe!"
Again you are correct, and you do not believe, so tongues are a sign to
you of your unbelief!
You will NOT find "your use" of "tongues" in scripture!
To the contrary, I find the Holy Spirit working, yet today as He always
has, leading men to Jesus, lifting up the name of Jesus!
And as I said day one, scripture is the test, NOT your experience!
And as you have more recently clarified, by this you mean what you have
experienced is the final test of all things, being the
spiritual/chronological elder that you are!
And if you foolishly think my saying one word you don't like is going
to keep me out of heaven!
roll on the floor laughing!
I got a good laugh out of this as well! You should have been a
comedian!
Do you think Peter is in Heaven?
I don't!
By YOUR reckoning, he denied Jesus THREE TIMES!
john w
So you do not think Peter is in heaven! I do not know what this has to
do with the current subject, but I am sure our messianic brother and
sisters will be interested in hearing this news report!
The Eastgate is open, the King is in Residence! Whosoever will, may
come in!
Gatekeeper
.
|
|
|
| User: "john w" |
|
| Title: Re: Tongues pause not cease |
11 Dec 2006 12:33:10 PM |
|
|
x-no-archive: yes
On 11 Dec 2006 09:27:21 -0800, "gatekeeper"
<gatekeeper.eastgate@hotmail.com> wrote:
© 2006 John Weatherly; all rights reserved; no portion of this
article may be used elsewhere without express written consent of the
author
john w wrote:
x-no-archive: yes
On 10 Dec 2006 22:16:42 -0800, "gatekeeper"
<gatekeeper.eastgate@hotmail.com> wrote:
© 2006 John Weatherly; all rights reserved; no portion of this
article may be used elsewhere without express written consent of the
author
john w wrote:
x-no-archive: yes
On 10 Dec 2006 01:06:12 -0800, "gatekeeper"
<gatekeeper.eastgate@hotmail.com> wrote:
© 2006 John Weatherly; all rights reserved; no portion of this
article may be used elsewhere without express written consent of the
author
john w wrote:
x-no-archive: yes
On 8 Dec 2006 17:34:07 -0800, "gatekeeper"
<gatekeeper.eastgate@hotmail.com> wrote:
© 2006 John Weatherly; all rights reserved; no portion of this
article may be used elsewhere without express written consent of the
author
john w wrote:
x-no-archive: yes
On Fri, 8 Dec 2006 15:16:19 +0100, "Georg Hanuschick"
<georghanuschick@tire.nospam.com> wrote:
© 2006 John Weatherly; all rights reserved; no portion of this
article may be used elsewhere without express written consent of the
author
you did not understand one word I wrote.
Ummmmm.... you seem to be of the mis-impression that to understand
what you said is to agree with you.
I completely understand what you said. I completely disagree.
The Bible does say "tongues shall pause" (I Corinthians 13:8) and nothing
more.
In your opinion. Which too many scholars I know would not agree with.
Ask Dr John MacArthur what he thinks of your view. Ask Dr Holland
London, | | | | | | | | | | |
