Religions > Bible > Re: Who Is More Moral- Athiest Liberals Or Conservative Christians?
| Topic: |
Religions > Bible |
| User: |
"Gactimus" |
| Date: |
09 Dec 2004 01:14:57 AM |
| Object: |
Re: Who Is More Moral- Athiest Liberals Or Conservative Christians? |
(Ray Fischer) wrote in
news:cp8s27$iq6$1@bolt.sonic.net:
Rump Ranger <buttpirate@fadmail.com> wrote:
Yang, AthD (h.c), Kicking AWOL's Cocaine Snorting ***** wrote:
I report, you decide.
Not all Christians are conservative (I'm a liberal Christian myself who
strongly dislikes the Christian coalition) nor are all liberals
atheists (a lot of moronic atheists voted for Bush despite his
theocratic nature, sadly). Although if I had to pick one, I'd take the
secular liberal over the right-wing Bible-thumpers anyday.
Jesus was a liberal.
Supporting fag marriage and abortion? Not likely.
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| User: "Ray Fischer" |
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| Title: Re: Who Is More Moral- Athiest Liberals Or Conservative Christians? |
14 Dec 2004 10:16:33 PM |
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Ray Fischer <rfischer@bolt.sonic.net> wrote:
Zaghadka <president@whitehouse.gov> wrote:
Perhaps the Bible is not true? Sure. I would not challenge such a statement
with anything other than "I *think* it is." That really is my position.
Actually, my position is somewhat less. I say the Bible contains truth. Like
hot dogs, it contains a lot of fillers too.
It doesn't really matter whether the Bible is true.
A true book that nobody ever read would have no effect in the
universe. A false book that benefited all of humanity would do
great good.
So what's more important? Truth or Good?
And what category does the Bible fall into?
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
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| User: "Woden" |
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| Title: Re: Who Is More Moral- Athiest Liberals Or Conservative Christians? |
14 Dec 2004 10:57:39 PM |
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(Ray Fischer) wrote in
news:cpodr0$6mg$1@bolt.sonic.net:
Ray Fischer < > wrote:
Zaghadka <president@whitehouse.gov> wrote:
Perhaps the Bible is not true? Sure. I would not challenge such a
statement with anything other than "I *think* it is." That really is
my position. Actually, my position is somewhat less. I say the Bible
contains truth. Like hot dogs, it contains a lot of fillers too.
It doesn't really matter whether the Bible is true.
A true book that nobody ever read would have no effect in the
universe. A false book that benefited all of humanity would do
great good.
So what's more important? Truth or Good?
And what category does the Bible fall into?
A false book that causes considerable harm to humanity...
--
Woden
"religion is a socio-political system for controlling people's thoughts,
lives and actions based on ancient myths and superstitions, perpetrated
through generations of subtle yet pervasive brainwashing."
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| User: "Zaghadka" |
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| Title: Re: Who Is More Moral- Athiest Liberals Or Conservative Christians? |
15 Dec 2004 02:56:03 AM |
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Ray Fischer bolted into alt.world, wreathed in wicked, white hot flames, and
screamed...
Ray Fischer <rfischer@bolt.sonic.net> wrote:
Zaghadka <president@whitehouse.gov> wrote:
Perhaps the Bible is not true? Sure. I would not challenge such a statement
with anything other than "I *think* it is." That really is my position.
Actually, my position is somewhat less. I say the Bible contains truth. Like
hot dogs, it contains a lot of fillers too.
It doesn't really matter whether the Bible is true.
A true book that nobody ever read would have no effect in the
universe. A false book that benefited all of humanity would do
great good.
So what's more important? Truth or Good?
And what category does the Bible fall into?
You're asking for clarification of your own post, which is weird, but my answer
is "neither." There is truth in there, but it has to be found. There is good in
there, but there are recommendations for executions for slandering one's
parents as well.
Any "book" is neither true nor good. The contents are what matter. The Bible's
got some pretty good stuff in it. That's why it was the first book printed on
the Gutenberg printing press. I think porn was probably the second. ;^)
--
Zag
Guns cause crime
like flies cause garbage
...bumper sticker
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| User: "Zaghadka" |
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| Title: Re: Who Is More Moral- Athiest Liberals Or Conservative Christians? |
15 Dec 2004 02:53:08 AM |
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Ray Fischer bolted into alt.world, wreathed in wicked, white hot flames, and
screamed...
Zaghadka <president@whitehouse.gov> wrote:
Perhaps the Bible is not true? Sure. I would not challenge such a statement
with anything other than "I *think* it is." That really is my position.
Actually, my position is somewhat less. I say the Bible contains truth. Like
hot dogs, it contains a lot of fillers too.
It doesn't really matter whether the Bible is true.
A true book that nobody ever read would have no effect in the
universe. A false book that benefited all of humanity would do
great good.
So what's more important? Truth or Good?
Good.
--
Zag
Guns cause crime
like flies cause garbage
...bumper sticker
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| User: "Attila" |
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| Title: Re: Who Is More Moral- Athiest Liberals Or Conservative Christians? |
15 Dec 2004 10:06:39 AM |
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On Wed, 15 Dec 2004 02:53:08 -0600, Zaghadka <zaghadka@hotmail.com> in
alt.abortion with message-id
<druvr011p22aon03ne90oc8ck3n3v48vc5@4ax.com> wrote:
Ray Fischer bolted into alt.world, wreathed in wicked, white hot flames, and
screamed...
Zaghadka <president@whitehouse.gov> wrote:
Perhaps the Bible is not true? Sure. I would not challenge such a statement
with anything other than "I *think* it is." That really is my position.
Actually, my position is somewhat less. I say the Bible contains truth. Like
hot dogs, it contains a lot of fillers too.
It doesn't really matter whether the Bible is true.
A true book that nobody ever read would have no effect in the
universe. A false book that benefited all of humanity would do
great good.
So what's more important? Truth or Good?
Good.
As defined by who?
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| User: "Zaghadka" |
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| Title: Re: Who Is More Moral- Athiest Liberals Or Conservative Christians? |
16 Dec 2004 12:16:57 AM |
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Attila bolted into alt.world, wreathed in wicked, white hot flames, and
screamed...
On Wed, 15 Dec 2004 02:53:08 -0600, Zaghadka <zaghadka@hotmail.com> in
alt.abortion with message-id
<druvr011p22aon03ne90oc8ck3n3v48vc5@4ax.com> wrote:
Ray Fischer bolted into alt.world, wreathed in wicked, white hot flames, and
screamed...
Zaghadka <president@whitehouse.gov> wrote:
Perhaps the Bible is not true? Sure. I would not challenge such a statement
with anything other than "I *think* it is." That really is my position.
Actually, my position is somewhat less. I say the Bible contains truth. Like
hot dogs, it contains a lot of fillers too.
It doesn't really matter whether the Bible is true.
A true book that nobody ever read would have no effect in the
universe. A false book that benefited all of humanity would do
great good.
So what's more important? Truth or Good?
Good.
As defined by who?
Excellent question! I could say the same about truth, but I think good is more
important. I'm not sure who defines good or truth. Possibly the men and women
in positions of power. Possibly the judiciary. Perhaps common sense. I really
and truly don't know.
--
Zag
Guns cause crime
like flies cause garbage
...bumper sticker
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| User: "Attila" |
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| Title: Re: Who Is More Moral- Athiest Liberals Or Conservative Christians? |
16 Dec 2004 04:50:35 AM |
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On Thu, 16 Dec 2004 00:16:57 -0600, Zaghadka <zaghadka@hotmail.com> in
alt.abortion with message-id
<it92s0pheik0f7lmpe6f2adm7i97g7uqaj@4ax.com> wrote:
Attila bolted into alt.world, wreathed in wicked, white hot flames, and
screamed...
On Wed, 15 Dec 2004 02:53:08 -0600, Zaghadka <zaghadka@hotmail.com> in
alt.abortion with message-id
<druvr011p22aon03ne90oc8ck3n3v48vc5@4ax.com> wrote:
Ray Fischer bolted into alt.world, wreathed in wicked, white hot flames, and
screamed...
Zaghadka <president@whitehouse.gov> wrote:
Perhaps the Bible is not true? Sure. I would not challenge such a statement
with anything other than "I *think* it is." That really is my position.
Actually, my position is somewhat less. I say the Bible contains truth. Like
hot dogs, it contains a lot of fillers too.
It doesn't really matter whether the Bible is true.
A true book that nobody ever read would have no effect in the
universe. A false book that benefited all of humanity would do
great good.
So what's more important? Truth or Good?
Good.
As defined by who?
Excellent question! I could say the same about truth, but I think good is more
important. I'm not sure who defines good or truth. Possibly the men and women
in positions of power. Possibly the judiciary. Perhaps common sense. I really
and truly don't know.
Then I will do it. Why not? Stand by for some changes!!!
Removing all religion from the public venue is good.
Stopping all public discussion of religion is good.
Insuring no public money of any kind goes to any religious
organization or any business owned in whole or in part by any
religious organization is good.
Ending all tax exemptions and tax exclusions from religion is good.
Eliminating all censorship for public broadcasting is good.
Eliminating all income redistribution policies and laws of all levels
of government is good.
More to come.
BTW, truth (which is difficult to ascertain) is light years ahead of
some vague 'good', which is fairly worthless.
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| User: "Zaghadka" |
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| Title: Re: Who Is More Moral- Athiest Liberals Or Conservative Christians? |
16 Dec 2004 08:18:42 AM |
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Attila bolted into alt.world, wreathed in wicked, white hot flames, and
screamed...
On Thu, 16 Dec 2004 00:16:57 -0600, Zaghadka <zaghadka@hotmail.com> in
alt.abortion with message-id
<it92s0pheik0f7lmpe6f2adm7i97g7uqaj@4ax.com> wrote:
Attila bolted into alt.world, wreathed in wicked, white hot flames, and
screamed...
On Wed, 15 Dec 2004 02:53:08 -0600, Zaghadka <zaghadka@hotmail.com> in
alt.abortion with message-id
<druvr011p22aon03ne90oc8ck3n3v48vc5@4ax.com> wrote:
Ray Fischer bolted into alt.world, wreathed in wicked, white hot flames, and
screamed...
Zaghadka <president@whitehouse.gov> wrote:
Perhaps the Bible is not true? Sure. I would not challenge such a statement
with anything other than "I *think* it is." That really is my position.
Actually, my position is somewhat less. I say the Bible contains truth. Like
hot dogs, it contains a lot of fillers too.
It doesn't really matter whether the Bible is true.
A true book that nobody ever read would have no effect in the
universe. A false book that benefited all of humanity would do
great good.
So what's more important? Truth or Good?
Good.
As defined by who?
Excellent question! I could say the same about truth, but I think good is more
important. I'm not sure who defines good or truth. Possibly the men and women
in positions of power. Possibly the judiciary. Perhaps common sense. I really
and truly don't know.
Then I will do it. Why not? Stand by for some changes!!!
Removing all religion from the public venue is good.
Stopping all public discussion of religion is good.
Insuring no public money of any kind goes to any religious
organization or any business owned in whole or in part by any
religious organization is good.
Ending all tax exemptions and tax exclusions from religion is good.
Eliminating all censorship for public broadcasting is good.
Eliminating all income redistribution policies and laws of all levels
of government is good.
More to come.
BTW, truth (which is difficult to ascertain) is light years ahead of
some vague 'good', which is fairly worthless.
Then you have faith in Truth. Your god is Truth. But you'll never see it.
Are you trying to be inflammatory, or do you really believe Religion to be such
an ultimate evil?
--
Zag
Guns cause crime
like flies cause garbage
...bumper sticker
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| User: "Attila" |
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| Title: Re: Who Is More Moral- Athiest Liberals Or Conservative Christians? |
16 Dec 2004 11:40:43 AM |
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On Thu, 16 Dec 2004 08:18:42 -0600, Zaghadka <zaghadka@hotmail.com> in
alt.abortion with message-id
<o863s0903oto4g0u6lkifm6e1ap51bv15e@4ax.com> wrote:
Then you have faith in Truth. Your god is Truth. But you'll never see it.
Not at all. If necessary and I think I can get away with it I will
lie like a puppy dog.
I can be relied upon to do anything provided the alternative is worse.
Are you trying to be inflammatory, or do you really believe Religion to be such
an ultimate evil?
I consider it to be the worst thing that has ever happened to humanity
- far more destructive that war, disease, or anything else. It has
stood in the way of progress throughout history and all human progress
from caves to the present has been in spite of religion of any kind.
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| User: "Zaghadka" |
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| Title: Re: Who Is More Moral- Athiest Liberals Or Conservative Christians? |
17 Dec 2004 12:02:38 AM |
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Attila bolted into alt.world, wreathed in wicked, white hot flames, and
screamed...
On Thu, 16 Dec 2004 08:18:42 -0600, Zaghadka <zaghadka@hotmail.com> in
alt.abortion with message-id
<o863s0903oto4g0u6lkifm6e1ap51bv15e@4ax.com> wrote:
Then you have faith in Truth. Your god is Truth. But you'll never see it.
Not at all. If necessary and I think I can get away with it I will
lie like a puppy dog.
I can be relied upon to do anything provided the alternative is worse.
Worse to whom?
Are you trying to be inflammatory, or do you really believe Religion to be such
an ultimate evil?
I consider it to be the worst thing that has ever happened to humanity
- far more destructive that war, disease, or anything else. It has
stood in the way of progress throughout history and all human progress
from caves to the present has been in spite of religion of any kind.
I think war, violence, deliberate death is the worst thing that ever happened
to humanity. Religion, like WMDs, is frequently used to justify it. I can
understand where you're coming from, but I think you're missing the big
picture.
--
Zag
Guns cause crime
like flies cause garbage
...bumper sticker
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| User: "Attila" |
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| Title: Re: Who Is More Moral- Athiest Liberals Or Conservative Christians? |
17 Dec 2004 12:43:19 AM |
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On Fri, 17 Dec 2004 00:02:38 -0600, Zaghadka <zaghadka@hotmail.com> in
alt.abortion with message-id
<3gt4s0p3u1o2eujt5475tb2eqtl4k0483q@4ax.com> wrote:
Attila bolted into alt.world, wreathed in wicked, white hot flames, and
screamed...
On Thu, 16 Dec 2004 08:18:42 -0600, Zaghadka <zaghadka@hotmail.com> in
alt.abortion with message-id
<o863s0903oto4g0u6lkifm6e1ap51bv15e@4ax.com> wrote:
Then you have faith in Truth. Your god is Truth. But you'll never see it.
Not at all. If necessary and I think I can get away with it I will
lie like a puppy dog.
I can be relied upon to do anything provided the alternative is worse.
Worse to whom?
Me.
Are you trying to be inflammatory, or do you really believe Religion to be such
an ultimate evil?
I consider it to be the worst thing that has ever happened to humanity
- far more destructive that war, disease, or anything else. It has
stood in the way of progress throughout history and all human progress
from caves to the present has been in spite of religion of any kind.
I think war, violence, deliberate death is the worst thing that ever happened
to humanity. Religion, like WMDs, is frequently used to justify it. I can
understand where you're coming from, but I think you're missing the big
picture.
.
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| User: "Zaghadka" |
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| Title: Re: Who Is More Moral- Athiest Liberals Or Conservative Christians? |
15 Dec 2004 03:12:14 AM |
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RainLover bolted into alt.world, wreathed in wicked, white hot flames, and
screamed...
On Mon, 13 Dec 2004 14:54:40 -0600, Zaghadka <zaghadka@hotmail.com>
wrote:
And that is what you are doing - complaining about the holes in your
position
It is not a position. It is something *I* have experienced. I do not call
taking a ***** a position. It is something *I* have experienced. I have not
complained that you point out that I can't prove my experience, I have pointed
it out myself, which is why it is absurd for you to continue to point it out
again and again. What you are, in fact, saying is you think I am a liar. That I
have not experienced God. That my testimony is false. Fine, turnabout is fair
play, PROVE IT. Good luck.
I was a Christian for 20 years of my life. I "experienced" God... the
God you experience, however, I came to discover that those FEELINGS I
had and called "god" were feeling that all humans have, even atheists.
Your nice, warm, loving feeling isn't a god,
That is not the experience I am having. IMO, "God is love" is a metaphor for
something very difficult, if not impossible, to say. IMO, "Love" is the *best*
way, perhaps the *only* way to approach God. Christ says, "I *am* the light and
the way." That's true. He is, because he is God, and God is the light and the
way. Whether or not the *words* of the Bible are the *only* way, I don't know.
People who write holy books have agendas. Too many of my brethern refuse to
accept that God himself did not come down and put the words of the Bible on a
piece of paper. The *only* place the Bible claims that happened was with Moses
on mount Sinai. The rest is written through accounts of witness and very
fallible humans receiving divine inspiration. Needless to say, some things got
mucked up, IMHO.
All I ask is that people seek, and though you have rejected the Christian god
(lower case deliberate), it sounds like you are still seeking. Good for you.
Far too many give up and play Playstation instead.
The place where this started was the question: "What is the point of arguing
about a religious book?" (paraphrase) To me, the seeking is everything, and
that is what I have said. I will continue to seek because it is my way, but in
many ways, I have reached the end of my journey.
My experience is more like watching an action movie and becoming involved in
the danger, but not becoming distraught because I know they aren't going to
kill off Nick Cage. They pay him too much. In other words, I know there's going
to be a happy ending. That is the result of my experience of God, a God that
encompasses everything that goes on in this world. Even the suffering is part
of that beauty. There *is* a happy ending and it lends me the perpective to go
on with my life.
it's your mind creating
those feelings because you've been taught to believe that "god" will
give them to you.
You're not LYING about your god-experience, but you've been mindwashed
into believing it's a god that you're experiencing, just as mindwashed
as those cult members who willing kill themselves because they are
"experiencing" god and he is talking to them.
Says you. ;^)
I am far from mindwashed, IMHO, but I understand where you're coming from. What
made you leave Christianity?
--
Zag
Guns cause crime
like flies cause garbage
...bumper sticker
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| User: "RainLover" |
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| Title: Re: Who Is More Moral- Athiest Liberals Or Conservative Christians? |
15 Dec 2004 09:11:47 AM |
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On Wed, 15 Dec 2004 03:12:14 -0600, Zaghadka <zaghadka@hotmail.com>
wrote:
RainLover bolted into alt.world, wreathed in wicked, white hot flames, and
screamed...
It is not a position. It is something *I* have experienced. I do not call
taking a ***** a position. It is something *I* have experienced. I have not
complained that you point out that I can't prove my experience, I have pointed
it out myself, which is why it is absurd for you to continue to point it out
again and again. What you are, in fact, saying is you think I am a liar. That I
have not experienced God. That my testimony is false. Fine, turnabout is fair
play, PROVE IT. Good luck.
I was a Christian for 20 years of my life. I "experienced" God... the
God you experience, however, I came to discover that those FEELINGS I
had and called "god" were feeling that all humans have, even atheists.
Your nice, warm, loving feeling isn't a god,
That is not the experience I am having. IMO, "God is love" is a metaphor for
something very difficult, if not impossible, to say. IMO, "Love" is the *best*
way, perhaps the *only* way to approach God. Christ says, "I *am* the light and
the way." That's true. He is, because he is God, and God is the light and the
way. Whether or not the *words* of the Bible are the *only* way, I don't know.
People who write holy books have agendas. Too many of my brethern refuse to
accept that God himself did not come down and put the words of the Bible on a
piece of paper. The *only* place the Bible claims that happened was with Moses
on mount Sinai. The rest is written through accounts of witness and very
fallible humans receiving divine inspiration. Needless to say, some things got
mucked up, IMHO.
You know... 95% of 'Christians' would definitely say you're NOT a
Christian and, in fact, are going to hell for your opinion on things.
Bravo for standing up for yourself and THINKING.
All I ask is that people seek, and though you have rejected the Christian god
(lower case deliberate), it sounds like you are still seeking. Good for you.
Far too many give up and play Playstation instead.
I don't think I'm actively seeking, but perhaps I am. I'm definitely
discovering....
I'm on a path. In the end, I think this path will end by dumping me
into a 6' deep hole... if that hole ends up being a gateway, well
then, I'll just continue on my path, but I hope to be fully satisfied
with THIS life as to be 'happy' in my grave.
The place where this started was the question: "What is the point of arguing
about a religious book?" (paraphrase) To me, the seeking is everything, and
that is what I have said. I will continue to seek because it is my way, but in
many ways, I have reached the end of my journey.
"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are
always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts."
- Bertrand Russell
My experience is more like watching an action movie and becoming involved in
the danger, but not becoming distraught because I know they aren't going to
kill off Nick Cage. They pay him too much. In other words, I know there's going
to be a happy ending. That is the result of my experience of God, a God that
encompasses everything that goes on in this world. Even the suffering is part
of that beauty. There *is* a happy ending and it lends me the perpective to go
on with my life.
I don't fear death... don't fear *not* existing... I don't look
forward to it with anticipation, but, I know it's there...
it's your mind creating
those feelings because you've been taught to believe that "god" will
give them to you.
You're not LYING about your god-experience, but you've been mindwashed
into believing it's a god that you're experiencing, just as mindwashed
as those cult members who willing kill themselves because they are
"experiencing" god and he is talking to them.
Says you. ;^)
I am far from mindwashed, IMHO, but I understand where you're coming from. What
made you leave Christianity?
I'm sorry I jumped to conclusions. It rare to get a True Believer
(tm) in alt.atheism with an opened mind.
I left Christianity in my early 20's. I'd had serious Questions long
before that, but I always got the same run-around with pastors...
basically, they all said it's not good to ask such questions, or they
didn't know, or, they gave me a load of crap and expected me to
swallow without question.
In the end, I decided that the Christian dogma was just wrong... I
looked at other 'Christian faiths... Baptist, Mormon, catholic... even
charismatic-type churches, but always ended up feeling the same about
them.
In the end, the more I thought about "god", the more I realized that
the idea was created by humans... at first, to explain the unknown,
then, as science began to explain things, "god" changed to become more
of a father figure.... something for people to just worship for
worship's sake or to fear...
Humans think too much... it's what we do... When confronted with the
UNknowable, we make things up... infinity, death, meaning of life...
Hell, the MEANING of life is to survive and procreate, and since
procreation is out of hand, it's survival.... and finding the best
way to survive as a society, to prosper, to succeed... I don't see
that a 'god' is needed for this.
James, Seattle
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| User: "Zaghadka" |
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| Title: Re: Who Is More Moral- Athiest Liberals Or Conservative Christians? |
15 Dec 2004 09:57:36 AM |
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RainLover bolted into alt.world, wreathed in wicked, white hot flames, and
screamed...
Hell, the MEANING of life is to survive and procreate, and since
procreation is out of hand, it's survival.... and finding the best
way to survive as a society, to prosper, to succeed... I don't see
that a 'god' is needed for this.
I think I just disagree with the approach you are taking. The meaning of life,
to me, is life itself. If you consider that survival, and in the end
procreating to go on beyond the grave, then we basically agree on the concept
of life's meaning, but disagree on the business of it. For me, life is a
luminous concordance with God, and the rest flows from that quite naturally.
And, of course, God is quite necessary for that viewpoint.
Thank you for not attacking me. I've been feeling a bit battered in other
threads. ;^)
I have experienced God in the same way that you have experienced your feet. I
testify to that. I am encouraged that you, like I, choose to grow. I'm sorry
you were so abused in the Christian church and I wish you every blessing.
--
Zag
Guns cause crime
like flies cause garbage
...bumper sticker
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| User: "RainLover" |
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| Title: Re: Who Is More Moral- Athiest Liberals Or Conservative Christians? |
16 Dec 2004 09:20:02 AM |
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On Wed, 15 Dec 2004 09:57:36 -0600, Zaghadka <zaghadka@hotmail.com>
wrote:
RainLover bolted into alt.world, wreathed in wicked, white hot flames, and
screamed...
Hell, the MEANING of life is to survive and procreate, and since
procreation is out of hand, it's survival.... and finding the best
way to survive as a society, to prosper, to succeed... I don't see
that a 'god' is needed for this.
I think I just disagree with the approach you are taking. The meaning of life,
to me, is life itself. If you consider that survival, and in the end
procreating to go on beyond the grave, then we basically agree on the concept
of life's meaning, but disagree on the business of it. For me, life is a
luminous concordance with God, and the rest flows from that quite naturally.
When you say 'God', you, of course, are referring to the Christian
Bible's reference to a god. As a Taoist (and atheist) is see the same
Luminosity and a natural flow of the world that you do, but I don't
see the need to place a human personification on my observations.
We may in fact be observing the exact same thing... you call it 'God'
and I call it "the world" or "nature" or "the incredible lightness of
being".
I think the big difference is, I accept your perception of this
phenomena, but Christians do not allow any variation in THEIR world
view/spiritual view.
And, of course, God is quite necessary for that viewpoint.
Yes, exactly... and the Christian dogma requires them to tell all
OTHERS that they are wrong in their viewpoints.
Thank you for not attacking me. I've been feeling a bit battered in other
threads. ;^)
You should see the pummeling *I* take in alt.bible. hehe
I have experienced God in the same way that you have experienced your feet. I
testify to that. I am encouraged that you, like I, choose to grow. I'm sorry
you were so abused in the Christian church and I wish you every blessing.
We're nearly on the same page! I understand my feet to BE 'god'. ;-)
(and trees and birds and water and wind and even the locust)
I don't see my experience in the Christian Churches to be abusive at
all. It FELT abusive, but only because I wouldn't accept the hollow
answers that they were trying to placate me with.
James, Seattle
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| User: "Zaghadka" |
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| Title: Re: Who Is More Moral- Athiest Liberals Or Conservative Christians? |
17 Dec 2004 12:19:49 AM |
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RainLover bolted into alt.world, wreathed in wicked, white hot flames, and
screamed...
On Wed, 15 Dec 2004 09:57:36 -0600, Zaghadka <zaghadka@hotmail.com>
wrote:
RainLover bolted into alt.world, wreathed in wicked, white hot flames, and
screamed...
Hell, the MEANING of life is to survive and procreate, and since
procreation is out of hand, it's survival.... and finding the best
way to survive as a society, to prosper, to succeed... I don't see
that a 'god' is needed for this.
I think I just disagree with the approach you are taking. The meaning of life,
to me, is life itself. If you consider that survival, and in the end
procreating to go on beyond the grave, then we basically agree on the concept
of life's meaning, but disagree on the business of it. For me, life is a
luminous concordance with God, and the rest flows from that quite naturally.
When you say 'God', you, of course, are referring to the Christian
Bible's reference to a god. As a Taoist (and atheist) is see the same
Luminosity and a natural flow of the world that you do, but I don't
see the need to place a human personification on my observations.
I do not anthropomorphise God. I think the bearded guy on the Sistine Chapel is
a weak interpretation. The thing I experienced, well, it was somewhat
indescribable and my description will sound silly and is largely irrelevant.
Anyway, here goes:
It was like being part of the energy inside a plasma ball, at least that was
the closest thing I could see, but I'm pretty sure that was subconcious
filtering. What mattered was the feeling. I was in unity with the world and it
all made sense, even the pain, even the suffering. It all just was, without
judgement, very much like Daoism. There was no good or bad, just existence. All
God asks of me is that I not deny that experience, and that I share it with
others. I believe that the Bible led me there, and reading accounts of what
Christ said, I really do believe that he is God made flesh.
You are rare among atheists. You admit to your Daoist philosophy. If angry
atheists succeed in killing God, such philosophies will spring up in their
place to replace him. They already are.
You know where your anchor is, and while I think it leads to silly things like,
"My feet are God" I know you believe that. It sounds just as silly to me as my
externalized, yet internal, God must sound to you.
We may in fact be observing the exact same thing... you call it 'God'
and I call it "the world" or "nature" or "the incredible lightness of
being".
Not quite the same thing, but I think you understand the value of faith.
I think the big difference is, I accept your perception of this
phenomena, but Christians do not allow any variation in THEIR world
view/spiritual view.
Many Christians do not. They carry their faith in God down to faith in their
preachers. They worship Faith. They take what got them to God and turn it into
a life philosophy. In my humble opinion they are manipulable, malleable fools
because if it.
There is one thing I have faith in. One thing I accept without thought or
discrimination. That is God. The rest, AFAIC, you had better crack open some
books and talk to other people about.
And, of course, God is quite necessary for that viewpoint.
Yes, exactly... and the Christian dogma requires them to tell all
OTHERS that they are wrong in their viewpoints.
Yes. I believe I have found the True God and I ask that you seek him. That you
accept that I *may* be right. In my world view, God has given you the free will
to seek where you will. It's part of the equation.
Thank you for not attacking me. I've been feeling a bit battered in other
threads. ;^)
You should see the pummeling *I* take in alt.bible. hehe
LOL. I can imagine. I think you and I probably take a pummeling wherever we go
when it comes to philosophical matters because we both, IMHO, engage our brains
and know exactly where and when we do so and where and when we don't.
This is what I refer to as "a strong mind."
I have experienced God in the same way that you have experienced your feet. I
testify to that. I am encouraged that you, like I, choose to grow. I'm sorry
you were so abused in the Christian church and I wish you every blessing.
We're nearly on the same page! I understand my feet to BE 'god'. ;-)
(and trees and birds and water and wind and even the locust)
That was where I was just before I found God. I took an additional step because
I was shown that there is something bigger than the physical and the
speculative spiritual and accepted it. Not gracefully mind you, it took years.
I don't see my experience in the Christian Churches to be abusive at
all. It FELT abusive, but only because I wouldn't accept the hollow
answers that they were trying to placate me with.
IMHO, they ARE abusive. The worst engage in classic brainwashing techniques and
personally condemn anyone with the temerity to disagree with them. I don't know
what actually happened to you, but I can easily see scenarios in which your
very existence would be abused by self-styled Christians.
This is great. I enjoy your company.
--
Zag
Guns cause crime
like flies cause garbage
...bumper sticker
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| User: "RainLover" |
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| Title: Re: Who Is More Moral- Athiest Liberals Or Conservative Christians? |
17 Dec 2004 08:26:14 AM |
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On Fri, 17 Dec 2004 00:19:49 -0600, Zaghadka <zaghadka@hotmail.com>
wrote:
You are rare among atheists. You admit to your Daoist philosophy. If angry
atheists succeed in killing God, such philosophies will spring up in their
place to replace him. They already are.
Taoism is a strange beast. Sadly (or as expected) many have turned it
into a full-fledged religion, but the philosophy of Tao is wonderful
and interesting. I don't see anything in the basic ideas that any
atheist couldn't agree with, more or less.
I don't think atheists, even the angry ones, want to kill off your
god. I think your god doesn't even bother them, after all, they
believe in Him as much as you believe in pink polka-dotted unicorns
and the unicorns don't make you angry, do they? hehe
Now... CHRISTIANS... that's another story, there are fine and dandy
reasons for many non-Christians to be angry with the followers of this
particular deity. ;-)
You know where your anchor is, and while I think it leads to silly things like,
"My feet are God" I know you believe that. It sounds just as silly to me as my
externalized, yet internal, God must sound to you.
I was being facetious (feetacetious?) about my feet being "God"
<tm>.... but my point was that EVERYTHING has the same force within
it, call it 'nature' or 'spiritual' or a 'god'... If your god is
'within me' than surely He is within ALL of me, including my feet.
I've re-interpreted your "god" into my own life. When I talk to
Christians, I understand how THEY mean 'god', but everything is
translated into how I see your god. I don't see your god as silly,
nor your need to believe in Him... I do, however find a vast majority
of Christians in general to be silly in their odd, twisted beliefs
(PRESENT COMPANY EXCLUDED, of course)
I've read the bible... a couple of times, and studied it for the last
32+ years (I'm 40), and I can see the ENTIRE bible as being a
metaphor. When it is said 'god is within' they MEAN you are 'god'...
we each have the power of a god... to create, destroy, heal, find joy
and contentment. No external force (god-head) is needed for these
things since we have that power.
Everlasting life and the soul? These are things which continue on
long after our bodies die.... they live on in the people we encounter
and the things we DO in this life. Like a pebble in a still pond.
I live my life with this always in mind (although, admittedly, some of
the people HERE try me often).
James, Seattle
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| User: "Zaghadka" |
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| Title: Re: Who Is More Moral- Athiest Liberals Or Conservative Christians? |
17 Dec 2004 09:52:43 AM |
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RainLover bolted into alt.world, wreathed in wicked, white hot flames, and
screamed...
On Fri, 17 Dec 2004 00:19:49 -0600, Zaghadka <zaghadka@hotmail.com>
wrote:
You are rare among atheists. You admit to your Daoist philosophy. If angry
atheists succeed in killing God, such philosophies will spring up in their
place to replace him. They already are.
Taoism is a strange beast. Sadly (or as expected) many have turned it
into a full-fledged religion, but the philosophy of Tao is wonderful
and interesting. I don't see anything in the basic ideas that any
atheist couldn't agree with, more or less.
I don't think atheists, even the angry ones, want to kill off your
god. I think your god doesn't even bother them, after all, they
believe in Him as much as you believe in pink polka-dotted unicorns
and the unicorns don't make you angry, do they? hehe
Now... CHRISTIANS... that's another story, there are fine and dandy
reasons for many non-Christians to be angry with the followers of this
particular deity. ;-)
You know where your anchor is, and while I think it leads to silly things like,
"My feet are God" I know you believe that. It sounds just as silly to me as my
externalized, yet internal, God must sound to you.
I was being facetious (feetacetious?) about my feet being "God"
<tm>.... but my point was that EVERYTHING has the same force within
it, call it 'nature' or 'spiritual' or a 'god'... If your god is
'within me' than surely He is within ALL of me, including my feet.
I got the feeling you were kidding, but it really is our difference. I will
claim that your feet are *part* of god, as silly as feet are. It's like I'm on
the inside looking out, and you're on the outside looking in. It's a
perspective differnce.
IMO, your perspective, whether you realize it or not, makes *you* God. You then
have a choice to stress the individual or be part of the collective. Were I in
your place, I would stress the collective. If you do too, then for all intents
and purposes you have found the same God as I.
I had to take it one step further. He forced me to take that leap of faith or
choose death. I lept. If I am not delusional, at some point, perhaps very close
to your death, you will be chosen for that experience too. I want you to be
ready for it, because, if I am right, it is the most critical decision you will
ever make. I urge you to choose life.
Another place you can experience it, though it is IMHO very hard without
experiencing God first, is during sex. There's a reason they call it le petit
moire, the little death. Yes. God brings really good sex. Really good sex does
not bring God though. ;^)
(man, I would get burned at the stake for saying that one in another time)
The reason it is so hard to get a rich man into heaven is because the one thing
that most inhibits your ability to find God is comfort. Since God does not,
IMHO, advocate self-inflicted pain, the wealthy must literally give till it
hurts to find him. No one is willing to do that and with good reason.
This is where the flagellates came from. Someone found God through pain, so
everyone started worshipping Pain. Dumb.
Where this leads is that I have two choices as a Christian: I accept that God
chooses his own and tell people they might get picked too, or I shoot people
and send them off to God. We know what choice Hitler made and we know what
choice many Christians are making. You can use life to illustrate God, or you
can deal out death to force people to god. The medievals saw God everywhere.
I never deal out damage in the name of God. To me, that is what "do not take
the Lord's name in vain means."
Anyone who does deal out death in the name of God, and really believes he has
found God, has found, for lack of a better word, the Devil. I don't actually
believe in the Devil, incidentally any more than I believe the guy on the
Sistine chapel ceiling is God.
God chooses when we die, or we really, truly die. We must choose life, whenever
possible, whenever it is practical. We must not deliberately kill or harm in
God's name. I am not a pacifist, BTW. I just know that harm is a work of man.
I have shared my deepest faith with you here.
--
Zag
Guns cause crime
like flies cause garbage
...bumper sticker
.
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| User: "William T. Goat" |
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| Title: Re: Who Is More Moral- Athiest Liberals Or Conservative Christians? |
10 Dec 2004 05:22:32 PM |
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Zaghadka wrote:
Attila bolted into alt.world, wreathed in wicked, white hot flames,
and
screamed...
Can anyone think of anything more useless or futile than arguing
about
what some religious book says or does not say?
I think it's vital. It's the fundamental duty of those who wish to
understand
what the hell God was trying to say in the first place.
I would imagine that if God played an active part in one's life, one
would not need to refer to a book to learn about what He says.
Instead of trying to understand the Bible, why not try to understand
the God who is constantly at your side?
I mean, He *is* constantly at your side, isn't He?
Because if He isn't, then something is very wrong somewhere.
--Billy
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| User: "Mindless Drooling Libruls" |
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| Title: Re: Who Is More Moral- Athiest Liberals Or Conservative Christians? |
10 Dec 2004 05:31:13 PM |
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"William T. Goat" <ericvonl@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:1102720952.341043.295220@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
I would imagine that if God played an active part in one's life, one
would not need to refer to a book to learn about what He says.
You may have also imagined that since your professor played such an active
part in that college course you were taking that one would not need to refer
to the textbook he had written to learn about what he had to say about Plane
Geometry.
Which may explain the grade you received, Mr. Goat.
.
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| User: "William T. Goat" |
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| Title: Re: Who Is More Moral- Athiest Liberals Or Conservative Christians? |
11 Dec 2004 08:17:54 PM |
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Mindless Drooling Libruls wrote:
"William T. Goat" <ericvonl@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:1102720952.341043.295220@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
I would imagine that if God played an active part in one's life,
one
would not need to refer to a book to learn about what He says.
You may have also imagined that since your professor played such an
active
part in that college course you were taking that one would not need
to refer
to the textbook he had written to learn about what he had to say
about Plane
Geometry.
Correct. I could speak to my professor directly, and he could speak to
me directly. The textbook he wrote was a mere accessory to his
teaching, not a substitute for his presence.
Does God speak to you? Or do you use the Bible as a substitute for a
God who has already abandoned you?
Which may explain the grade you received, Mr. Goat.
Heh. My Bachelor's degree is in mathematics. I do integral calculus for
*fun*. How about you?
--Billy
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| User: "Apostate" |
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| Title: Re: Who Is More Moral- Athiest Liberals Or Conservative Christians? |
10 Dec 2004 06:58:14 PM |
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On Fri, 10 Dec 2004 23:31:13 GMT, "Mindless Drooling Libruls" <LibFoolz@DemWhackjobs.com> wrote:
"William T. Goat" <ericvonl@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:1102720952.341043.295220@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
I would imagine that if God played an active part in one's life, one
would not need to refer to a book to learn about what He says.
You may have also imagined that since your professor played such an active
part in that college course you were taking that one would not need to refer
to the textbook he had written to learn about what he had to say about Plane
Geometry.
Which may explain the grade you received, Mr. Goat.
Here's a flash for you: you make a shitty TA.
--
/Apostate
atheist #1931 I've found it!
BAAWA Knife AND SMASHer
EAC Supernumerary Deputy Director, Department of Redundancy Department
plonked by Lani_girl, first post; Billions Served!
I doubt, therefore I might be.
For e-mail, hold that tiger!
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| User: "Attila" |
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| Title: Re: Who Is More Moral- Athiest Liberals Or Conservative Christians? |
11 Dec 2004 02:51:21 AM |
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On 10 Dec 2004 15:22:32 -0800, "William T. Goat"
<ericvonl@my-deja.com> in alt.abortion with message-id
<1102720952.341043.295220@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> wrote:
Zaghadka wrote:
Attila bolted into alt.world, wreathed in wicked, white hot flames,
and
screamed...
Can anyone think of anything more useless or futile than arguing
about
what some religious book says or does not say?
I think it's vital. It's the fundamental duty of those who wish to
understand
what the hell God was trying to say in the first place.
I would imagine that if God played an active part in one's life, one
would not need to refer to a book to learn about what He says.
Under those conditions there must be some proof that something that
played an active role actually existed.
Instead of trying to understand the Bible, why not try to understand
the God who is constantly at your side?
Please prove anything is constantly at your side.
I mean, He *is* constantly at your side, isn't He?
I don't know. I see nothing and hear nothing. How does one tell?
Where is the evidence? THe proof?
Because if He isn't, then something is very wrong somewhere.
Why?
.
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| User: "Zaghadka" |
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| Title: Re: Who Is More Moral- Athiest Liberals Or Conservative Christians? |
11 Dec 2004 01:57:00 PM |
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Attila bolted into alt.world, wreathed in wicked, white hot flames, and
screamed...
I don't know. I see nothing and hear nothing. How does one tell?
Where is the evidence? THe proof?
Do blind people believe in colors? I can't prove ***** about the ocular world to
someone who is blind but if they trust me, they believe me and they can dream
about it.
It's a *very* weird argument. A very difficult one to have. You asked what the
point was, and yet here we are arguing about it. I consider that remarkable.
--
Zag
Guns cause crime
like flies cause garbage
...bumper sticker
.
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| User: "David W. Barnes" |
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| Title: Re: Who Is More Moral- Athiest Liberals Or Conservative Christians? |
11 Dec 2004 06:26:03 PM |
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In article <5ujmr01gvqju585m1pi0mtngei53dcprni@4ax.com>, Zaghadka
<zaghadka@hotmail.com> wrote:
Attila bolted into alt.world, wreathed in wicked, white hot flames, and
screamed...
I don't know. I see nothing and hear nothing. How does one tell?
Where is the evidence? THe proof?
Do blind people believe in colors? I can't prove ***** about the ocular world
to
someone who is blind but if they trust me, they believe me and they can dream
about it.
It's a *very* weird argument. A very difficult one to have. You asked what the
point was, and yet here we are arguing about it. I consider that remarkable.
I am God. Do you believe that?
.
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| User: "Zaghadka" |
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| Title: Re: Who Is More Moral- Athiest Liberals Or Conservative Christians? |
12 Dec 2004 04:11:34 AM |
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David W. Barnes bolted into alt.world, wreathed in wicked, white hot flames,
and screamed...
In article <5ujmr01gvqju585m1pi0mtngei53dcprni@4ax.com>, Zaghadka
<zaghadka@hotmail.com> wrote:
Attila bolted into alt.world, wreathed in wicked, white hot flames, and
screamed...
I don't know. I see nothing and hear nothing. How does one tell?
Where is the evidence? THe proof?
Do blind people believe in colors? I can't prove ***** about the ocular world
to
someone who is blind but if they trust me, they believe me and they can dream
about it.
It's a *very* weird argument. A very difficult one to have. You asked what the
point was, and yet here we are arguing about it. I consider that remarkable.
I am God. Do you believe that?
Nope. I'd have to get to know you better. I'm talking about faith, not blind
faith (no pun intended).
--
Zag
Guns cause crime
like flies cause garbage
...bumper sticker
.
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| User: "David W. Barnes" |
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| Title: Re: Who Is More Moral- Athiest Liberals Or Conservative Christians? |
12 Dec 2004 11:40:15 AM |
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In article <a86or0p12ttpefv85frd2o229a8oloqp4v@4ax.com>, Zaghadka
<zaghadka@hotmail.com> wrote:
David W. Barnes bolted into alt.world, wreathed in wicked, white hot flames,
and screamed...
In article <5ujmr01gvqju585m1pi0mtngei53dcprni@4ax.com>, Zaghadka
<zaghadka@hotmail.com> wrote:
Attila bolted into alt.world, wreathed in wicked, white hot flames, and
screamed...
I don't know. I see nothing and hear nothing. How does one tell?
Where is the evidence? THe proof?
Do blind people believe in colors? I can't prove ***** about the ocular
world
to
someone who is blind but if they trust me, they believe me and they can
dream
about it.
It's a *very* weird argument. A very difficult one to have. You asked what
the
point was, and yet here we are arguing about it. I consider that
remarkable.
I am God. Do you believe that?
Nope. I'd have to get to know you better. I'm talking about faith, not blind
faith (no pun intended).
Great. That is the answer I hoped for. So the question now is this.
You seem to be unwilling to accept what you are told on pure faith.
How do you decide what to believe on faith (that is, without proof) and
what requires proof?
.
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| User: "Zaghadka" |
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| Title: Re: Who Is More Moral- Athiest Liberals Or Conservative Christians? |
13 Dec 2004 04:48:26 AM |
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David W. Barnes bolted into alt.world, wreathed in wicked, white hot flames,
and screamed...
In article <a86or0p12ttpefv85frd2o229a8oloqp4v@4ax.com>, Zaghadka
<zaghadka@hotmail.com> wrote:
David W. Barnes bolted into alt.world, wreathed in wicked, white hot flames,
and screamed...
In article <5ujmr01gvqju585m1pi0mtngei53dcprni@4ax.com>, Zaghadka
<zaghadka@hotmail.com> wrote:
Attila bolted into alt.world, wreathed in wicked, white hot flames, and
screamed...
I don't know. I see nothing and hear nothing. How does one tell?
Where is the evidence? THe proof?
Do blind people believe in colors? I can't prove ***** about the ocular
world
to
someone who is blind but if they trust me, they believe me and they can
dream
about it.
It's a *very* weird argument. A very difficult one to have. You asked what
the
point was, and yet here we are arguing about it. I consider that
remarkable.
I am God. Do you believe that?
Nope. I'd have to get to know you better. I'm talking about faith, not blind
faith (no pun intended).
Great. That is the answer I hoped for. So the question now is this.
You seem to be unwilling to accept what you are told on pure faith.
No, I am unwilling to accept what I am told on Usenet on pure faith. ;^)
How do you decide what to believe on faith (that is, without proof) and
what requires proof?
I talk to others. Human judgement cannot exist in a vacuum. We have to work
together. Human judgement leads to that ultimate conclusion: community. Love
thine enemy. Anyone who says otherwise is not interested in life itself. Do we
choose life, or do we choose death? There is one man who said "Love thine
enemy," and I have faith in Him. That is the choice of life. The other is to
turn away from God. That is the eternal death. That, IMHO, is hell. I don't
believe in a "lake of fire." I think it's a metaphor.
So many people who say, "Love and trust are everything" get shot or executed.
Have you ever wondered why?
I also have experienced miracles. I don't share these stories publicly.
zaghadka@hotmail.com is a valid spamcatcher address that I check for real
mails. If you're interested, send me an email and I'll send back some stories.
Oh, and let's not forget inertia. I was born and raised a Christian, it is the
paradigm, the lens, I was handed. This leads to a certain predjudice. ;^)
--
Zag
Guns cause crime
like flies cause garbage
...bumper sticker
.
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| User: "David W. Barnes" |
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| Title: Re: Who Is More Moral- Athiest Liberals Or Conservative Christians? |
13 Dec 2004 09:15:32 PM |
|
|
In article <u9sqr05ugursagjg6sf9s2i5llso0lkf0k@4ax.com>, Zaghadka
<zaghadka@hotmail.com> wrote:
David W. Barnes bolted into alt.world, wreathed in wicked, white hot flames,
and screamed...
In article <a86or0p12ttpefv85frd2o229a8oloqp4v@4ax.com>, Zaghadka
<zaghadka@hotmail.com> wrote:
David W. Barnes bolted into alt.world, wreathed in wicked, white hot
flames,
and screamed...
In article <5ujmr01gvqju585m1pi0mtngei53dcprni@4ax.com>, Zaghadka
<zaghadka@hotmail.com> wrote:
Attila bolted into alt.world, wreathed in wicked, white hot flames, and
screamed...
I don't know. I see nothing and hear nothing. How does one tell?
Where is the evidence? THe proof?
Do blind people believe in colors? I can't prove ***** about the ocular
world
to
someone who is blind but if they trust me, they believe me and they can
dream
about it.
It's a *very* weird argument. A very difficult one to have. You asked
what
the
point was, and yet here we are arguing about it. I consider that
remarkable.
I am God. Do you believe that?
Nope. I'd have to get to know you better. I'm talking about faith, not
blind
faith (no pun intended).
Great. That is the answer I hoped for. So the question now is this.
You seem to be unwilling to accept what you are told on pure faith.
No, I am unwilling to accept what I am told on Usenet on pure faith. ;^)
Makes sense to me. So why believe the bible?
How do you decide what to believe on faith (that is, without proof) and
what requires proof?
I talk to others.
You seem like a bright guy. Why not decide for yourself?
Human judgement cannot exist in a vacuum. We have to work
together. Human judgement leads to that ultimate conclusion: community. Love
thine enemy. Anyone who says otherwise is not interested in life itself. Do we
choose life, or do we choose death? There is one man who said "Love thine
enemy," and I have faith in Him. That is the choice of life. The other is to
turn away from God. That is the eternal death. That, IMHO, is hell. I don't
believe in a "lake of fire." I think it's a metaphor.
The bible was an explanation for the unknown at that time. It was also
a way of controlling people. We have a better understanding today. As
for control, that is the argument the Right uses.
So many people who say, "Love and trust are everything" get shot or executed.
Have you ever wondered why?
I don't even know that it is true.
I also have experienced miracles. I don't share these stories publicly.
zaghadka@hotmail.com is a valid spamcatcher address that I check for real
mails. If you're interested, send me an email and I'll send back some stories.
Oh, and let's not forget inertia. I was born and raised a Christian, it is the
paradigm, the lens, I was handed. This leads to a certain predjudice. ;^)
Strange, isn't it, how people are the same religion as their parents.
They are inculcated into their religion. Nothing more.
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| User: "Zaghadka" |
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| Title: Re: Who Is More Moral- Athiest Liberals Or Conservative Christians? |
15 Dec 2004 05:16:26 AM |
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Al Klein bolted into alt.world, wreathed in wicked, white hot flames, and
screamed...
On Mon, 13 Dec 2004 19:15:32 -0800, "David W. Barnes" <spam@aol.com>
said in alt.atheism:
In article <u9sqr05ugursagjg6sf9s2i5llso0lkf0k@4ax.com>, Zaghadka
<zaghadka@hotmail.com> wrote:
Oh, and let's not forget inertia. I was born and raised a Christian, it is the
paradigm, the lens, I was handed. This leads to a certain predjudice. ;^)
Strange, isn't it, how people are the same religion as their parents.
They are inculcated into their religion. Nothing more.
And no matter how intelligent they may be when it comes to other
matters, they never think much about that one fact. Probably from
fear.
To my credit. I did. Inertia's a biggie. ;^)
--
Zag
Guns cause crime
like flies cause garbage
...bumper sticker
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