| Topic: |
Religions > Bible |
| User: |
"Pastor Frank" |
| Date: |
10 Oct 2003 06:01:05 AM |
| Object: |
Re: Why God allows evil to happen |
"island" <island@sundial.net> wrote in message
news:3F85F517.934132C9@sundial.net...
Pastor Frank wrote:
Ever
since I heard about the red-shift supposedly proving the increasing
speed of
expansion at the edge of the Universe, I was wondering what would happen
when these object approach the speed of light and the Theory of
Relativity
becomes an issue. So my question was a theoretical one, which you did
not
address as yet.
There is growing observational evidence that accelerating expansion
isn't necessarily runaway if expansion is counter-balanced by real
particle pair production, which also just so happens to strongly support
my own theory on the subject, but that's a whole nother can-oh-worms.
http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99994214
The Relativity theory provides for exponentially increased mass as the
speed of light is approached. Would "runaway expansion" be self-limiting
because of this fact?
--
Pastor Frank
THE GOSPEL OF JESUS CHRIST
Jesus in Matthew. 5:38 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye
for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:
39: But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite
thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.
40: And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let
him have thy cloke also.
41: And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain.
42: Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee
turn not thou away.
43: Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour,
and hate thine enemy.
44: But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do
good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you,
and persecute you;
45: That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he
maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on
the just and on the unjust.
46: For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? Do not even
the publicans the same?
47: And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? Do
not even the publicans so?
48: Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is
perfect.
---------------------
His teaching is a humongous step up from Judaism's Exodus 21:23-24
"If any harm follows, then you shall give life for life, eye for eye, tooth
for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn, wound for wound,
stripe for stripe."
---
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| User: "MarcRW" |
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| Title: Re: Why God allows evil to happen |
10 Oct 2003 08:09:59 AM |
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"Pastor Frank" <pfrank@christfirst.com> wrote in message
news:mlwhb.24640$qB1.7126@nntp-post.primus.ca...
The Relativity theory provides for exponentially increased mass as the
speed of light is approached. Would "runaway expansion" be self-limiting
because of this fact?
No.
Marc
--
What is wanted is not the will to believe, but the will to find out, which
is the exact opposite.
Bertrand Russell
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| User: "Pastor Frank" |
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| Title: Re: Why God allows evil to happen |
11 Oct 2003 07:33:24 AM |
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"MarcRW" <marcRW@spam.me.not> wrote in message
news:wcyhb.18132$gi2.16057@fed1read01...
"Pastor Frank" <pfrank@christfirst.com> wrote in message
news:mlwhb.24640$qB1.7126@nntp-post.primus.ca...
The Relativity theory provides for exponentially increased mass as
the
speed of light is approached. Would "runaway expansion" be self-limiting
because of this fact?
No.
Why not? For at the speed of light mass reaches infinity and so does the
resistance to accelleration. If that was not so, time would reverse itself.
What is wanted is not the will to believe, but the will to find out, which
is the exact opposite.
Bertrand Russell
That is not the philosophical "believe" of religion, for there it means
"give credence to" and "have faith in". Do you believe in anyone? Or are
you, like most atheists, devoting your life to forever trying "to find out"
whether the person in whom you believe isn't in fact unworthy of your
belief?
--
Pastor Frank
Jesus in Jn:8:15: Ye judge after the flesh; I judge no man.
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| User: "MarcRW" |
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| Title: Re: Why God allows evil to happen |
11 Oct 2003 11:10:26 PM |
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"Pastor Frank" <pfrank@christfirst.com> wrote in message
news:xj2ib.3051$7p.2576@nntp-post.primus.ca...
"MarcRW" <marcRW@spam.me.not> wrote in message
news:wcyhb.18132$gi2.16057@fed1read01...
"Pastor Frank" <pfrank@christfirst.com> wrote in message
news:mlwhb.24640$qB1.7126@nntp-post.primus.ca...
The Relativity theory provides for exponentially increased mass as
the
speed of light is approached. Would "runaway expansion" be
self-limiting
because of this fact?
No.
Why not? For at the speed of light mass reaches infinity and so does
the
resistance to accelleration. If that was not so, time would reverse
itself.
The short answer? It doesn't work that way. Space expands, and matter goes
along for the ride.
What is wanted is not the will to believe, but the will to find out,
which
is the exact opposite.
Bertrand Russell
That is not the philosophical "believe" of religion, for there it
means
"give credence to" and "have faith in". Do you believe in anyone? Or are
you, like most atheists, devoting your life to forever trying "to find
out"
whether the person in whom you believe isn't in fact unworthy of your
belief?
Do a web search on the phrase "The Will to Believe". Russell was arguing
counter to a specific theologist and his specific theology.
Sure, I believe in things I have some information about. I believe my
family and friends will act in loving and honest ways toward me, because
that is what they have done in the past. I believe the sun will rise
tomorrow. I believe I'll have a beer. But I don't believe God or Jesus are
or were.
Marc
--
What is wanted is not the will to believe, but the will to find out, which
is the exact opposite.
Bertrand Russell
.
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| User: "Pastor Frank" |
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| Title: Re: Why God allows evil to happen |
12 Oct 2003 05:08:02 PM |
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"MarcRW" <marcRW@spam.me.not> wrote in message
news:Ru4ib.20710$gi2.2312@fed1read01...
"Pastor Frank" <pfrank@christfirst.com> wrote in message
news:xj2ib.3051$7p.2576@nntp-post.primus.ca...
What is wanted is not the will to believe, but the will to find out,
which is the exact opposite.
Bertrand Russell
That is not the philosophical "believe" of religion, for there it
means
"give credence to" and "have faith in". Do you believe in anyone? Or are
you, like most atheists, devoting your life to forever trying "to find
out"
whether the person in whom you believe isn't in fact unworthy of your
belief?
Sure, I believe in things I have some information about. I believe my
family and friends will act in loving and honest ways toward me, because
that is what they have done in the past.
Though faith has indeed a statistical component, yours is still not
quite the belief of religion. Religious belief and faith is like a parent
looking at his child and seeing hope for the future in him or her. It even
means having faith in the goodness of one's child though all the evidence
points to the opposite: The Kid is a rotter.
I believe the sun will rise
tomorrow. I believe I'll have a beer. But I don't believe God or Jesus
are
or were.
From the above explanation of religious belief and faith, it is
obvious, that our Christian "God is love" (1 John 4:8,16), and that one
willing to lay down His life for you is indeed proving the existence of love
to the maximum.
--
Pastor Frank
Jesus in Jn:15:13: Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down
his life for his friends.
---
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.525 / Virus Database: 322 - Release Date: 10/10/03
.
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| User: "MarcRW" |
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| Title: Re: Why God allows evil to happen |
13 Oct 2003 08:04:11 AM |
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"Pastor Frank" <pfrank@christfirst.com> wrote in message
news:qGoib.6170$bk.5862@nntp-post.primus.ca...
[snip]
Sure, I believe in things I have some information about. I believe my
family and friends will act in loving and honest ways toward me, because
that is what they have done in the past.
Though faith has indeed a statistical component, yours is still not
quite the belief of religion. Religious belief and faith is like a parent
looking at his child and seeing hope for the future in him or her. It even
means having faith in the goodness of one's child though all the evidence
points to the opposite: The Kid is a rotter.
I'm glad my 'faith' is not quite like the religious type. Remember that
next time you tell an atheist he has 'faith' in other things, so it is valid
to have faith in God.
I believe the sun will rise tomorrow. I believe I'll have a beer.
But I don't believe God or Jesus are or were.
From the above explanation of religious belief and faith, it is
obvious, that our Christian "God is love" (1 John 4:8,16), and that one
willing to lay down His life for you is indeed proving the existence of
love
to the maximum.
If Jesus did sacrafice his life for us, then he is DEAD. Got that? DEAD!
If Jesus is not dead, then he did not sacrafice himself for us.
Which is it? He's dead, and not my concern, or he's alive, and made no real
sacrafice.
Why does God require a human sacrafice anyway? That's never considered a
noble feature of any other primative religions, is it?
Jesus in Jn:15:13: Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down
his life for his friends.
True enough. But a living Jesus did no such thing. Only the dead have laid
down their lives.
Marc
--
What is wanted is not the will to believe, but the will to find out, which
is the exact opposite.
Bertrand Russell
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| User: "Pastor Frank" |
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| Title: Re: Why God allows evil to happen |
13 Oct 2003 11:45:42 AM |
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"MarcRW" <marcRW@spam.me.not> wrote in message
news:cpxib.24272$gi2.18796@fed1read01...
"Pastor Frank" <pfrank@christfirst.com> wrote in message
news:qGoib.6170$bk.5862@nntp-post.primus.ca...
Sure, I believe in things I have some information about. I believe my
family and friends will act in loving and honest ways toward me,
because
that is what they have done in the past.
Though faith has indeed a statistical component, yours is still not
quite the belief of religion. Religious belief and faith is like a
parent
looking at his child and seeing hope for the future in him or her. It
even
means having faith in the goodness of one's child though all the
evidence
points to the opposite: The Kid is a rotter.
I'm glad my 'faith' is not quite like the religious type.
Isn't it typical, that atheists alway know and list what things are not,
but never seem to get around telling anyone what things are. So tell us
aready what your "faith" is.
Remember that
next time you tell an atheist he has 'faith' in other things, so it is
valid
to have faith in God.
I don't quite know what you mean.
I believe the sun will rise tomorrow. I believe I'll have a beer.
But I don't believe God or Jesus are or were.
From the above explanation of religious belief and faith, it is
obvious, that our Christian "God is love" (1 John 4:8,16), and that one
willing to lay down His life for you is indeed proving the existence of
love to the maximum.
If Jesus did sacrafice his life for us, then he is DEAD. Got that? DEAD!
If Jesus is not dead, then he did not sacrafice himself for us.
A man is not just a body that dies. That which makes Jesus unique is not
dead, for He resurrected in all our hearts and minds, it's just that
atheists are very keen on ignoring Him. What else do you think causes us to
discuss Christ far more than all other other historical personalities
combined for over 2000 years?
Which is it? He's dead, and not my concern, or he's alive, and made no
real
sacrafice.
Why does God require a human sacrafice anyway? That's never considered a
noble feature of any other primative religions, is it?
Because the God is the repository of all your ideals and hopes, and well
worth dying for. Without willingness to die for what you believe in you
don't have a life worth living.
Jesus in Jn:15:13: Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay
down
his life for his friends.
True enough. But a living Jesus did no such thing. Only the dead have
laid
down their lives.
Christ lives in and through all of us, -if you let Him. He will not
force Himself on anyone.
--
Pastor Frank
1Jn:4:8: He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.
1Jn:4:16: And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God
is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.
---
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Version: 6.0.525 / Virus Database: 322 - Release Date: 10/9/03
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| User: "MarcRW" |
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| Title: Re: Why God allows evil to happen |
13 Oct 2003 11:11:05 PM |
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"Pastor Frank" <pfrank@christfirst.com> wrote in message
news:URBib.1682$VQ.839@nntp-post.primus.ca...
[snip]
Isn't it typical, that atheists alway know and list what things are
not,
but never seem to get around telling anyone what things are. So tell us
aready what your "faith" is.
Means I am confident that established patterns will most often continue.
Gravity has been working well, it will continue to do so.
Remember that next time you tell an atheist he has 'faith' in other
things, so it is valid to have faith in God.
I don't quite know what you mean.
You are playing ignorant or you are ignorant. Everyone else knows what I
mean.
I believe the sun will rise tomorrow. I believe I'll have a beer.
But I don't believe God or Jesus are or were.
From the above explanation of religious belief and faith, it is
obvious, that our Christian "God is love" (1 John 4:8,16), and that
one
willing to lay down His life for you is indeed proving the existence
of
love to the maximum.
If Jesus did sacrafice his life for us, then he is DEAD. Got that?
DEAD!
If Jesus is not dead, then he did not sacrafice himself for us.
A man is not just a body that dies. That which makes Jesus unique is
not
dead, for He resurrected in all our hearts and minds, it's just that
atheists are very keen on ignoring Him. What else do you think causes us
to
discuss Christ far more than all other other historical personalities
combined for over 2000 years?
So, is your Christ of the cross dead or alive? If he were God, and knew he
would not stay dead, what exacty did he sacrafice for you? His life? Only
if he's DEAD.
Which is it? He's dead, and not my concern, or he's alive, and made no
real sacrafice.
Why does God require a human sacrafice anyway? That's never considered
a
noble feature of any other primative religions, is it?
Because the God is the repository of all your ideals and hopes, and
well
worth dying for. Without willingness to die for what you believe in you
don't have a life worth living.
You didn't answer the questions.
1) Is Christ alive or is he dead?
2) Why does your God require human sacrifice?
If God is a repository of OUR hopes, he is a human construct.
Jesus in Jn:15:13: Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay
down his life for his friends.
True enough. But a living Jesus did no such thing. Only the dead have
laid down their lives.
Christ lives in and through all of us, -if you let Him. He will not
force Himself on anyone.
So he lives through us, but not outside of us? Is that like George
Washington living on in the hearts of all Americans? That makes my
grandfather a minor deity.
Back to the point. Did Jesus sacrifice his life for you, or is he still
alive and he did not sacrifice his life for you?
Marc
--
What is wanted is not the will to believe, but the will to find out,
which is the exact opposite.
Bertrand Russell
.
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| User: "island" |
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| Title: Re: Why God allows evil to happen |
12 Oct 2003 09:16:36 AM |
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MarcRW wrote:
"Pastor Frank" <pfrank@christfirst.com> wrote in message
news:xj2ib.3051$7p.2576@nntp-post.primus.ca...
"MarcRW" <marcRW@spam.me.not> wrote in message
news:wcyhb.18132$gi2.16057@fed1read01...
"Pastor Frank" <pfrank@christfirst.com> wrote in message
news:mlwhb.24640$qB1.7126@nntp-post.primus.ca...
The Relativity theory provides for exponentially increased mass as
the
speed of light is approached. Would "runaway expansion" be
self-limiting
because of this fact?
No.
Why not? For at the speed of light mass reaches infinity and so does
the
resistance to accelleration. If that was not so, time would reverse
itself.
The short answer? It doesn't work that way. Space expands, and matter goes
along for the ride.
Not to mention the fact that the "long" answer is wrong for the same
reason that it was wrong to say that order and temperature don't
decrease in a runaway expanding universe. His examples are "typicals"
that don't apply the scenario of this discussion.
.
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| User: "Jesse Nowells" |
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| Title: Re: Why God allows evil to happen |
12 Oct 2003 12:14:42 AM |
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On Sat, 11 Oct 2003, Pastor Frank wrote:
Do you believe in anyone?
I thought you advocated believing in the *truth*. As evidenced by this
Schwarzenegger thing, here in California, apparently a lot of people are
confused about this as well.
Or are you, like most atheists, devoting your life to forever trying
"to find out" whether the person in whom you believe isn't in fact
unworthy of your belief?
Nobody needs to find out any such thing because it's puerile in the first
place.
.
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| User: "island" |
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| Title: Re: Why God allows evil to happen |
10 Oct 2003 12:57:58 PM |
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Pastor Frank wrote:
"island" <island@sundial.net> wrote in message
news:3F85F517.934132C9@sundial.net...
Pastor Frank wrote:
Ever
since I heard about the red-shift supposedly proving the increasing
speed of
expansion at the edge of the Universe, I was wondering what would happen
when these object approach the speed of light and the Theory of
Relativity
becomes an issue. So my question was a theoretical one, which you did
not
address as yet.
There is growing observational evidence that accelerating expansion
isn't necessarily runaway if expansion is counter-balanced by real
particle pair production, which also just so happens to strongly support
my own theory on the subject, but that's a whole nother can-oh-worms.
http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99994214
The Relativity theory provides for exponentially increased mass as the
speed of light is approached. Would "runaway expansion" be self-limiting
because of this fact?
The simple answer is no, because Einstein's theory doesn't set limits on
the speed that space expands, as this limit only applies for objects
that move through it.
.
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