| Topic: |
Religions > Bible |
| User: |
"Hermes1912" |
| Date: |
30 Jun 2003 03:05:29 PM |
| Object: |
Re: Why no one can prove or disprove god. ngpost |
I must agree with Reason on this one. Every human being worships some
god, whether they wish to admit it or not. For me and Reason, we
worship God, the REAL GOD. As for you atheists, some of you worship
yourselves, some science, some matter, and some your own atheism.
Believers are not afraid of death because we know that life continues.
I am not afraid to die because I have that knowledge. There may be
parts of me that are afraid of death, just as they are in every human.
Fear of death is the number one fear of all humans. You are in denial
if you tell yourself you don't fear death. And I imagine on your death
bed, you will be more afraid then ever, because you honestly believe
that is it. I on the other hand will be comforted on my death bed,
because I know that eternal life awaits me.
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| User: "Hermes1912" |
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| Title: Re: Why no one can prove or disprove god. ngpost |
01 Jul 2003 11:10:57 AM |
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I must agree with Reason on this one. Every human being worships some
god, whether they wish to admit it or not.
What defintion of god are you using?
The one I have given in the past. There is one definition of God.
For me and Reason, we
worship God, the REAL GOD.
You mean Rah, or Zeus?
I call him God. Jews call him YHWH or Elohim. Moslems call him
Allah. Maybe someone still calls him Zeus.
As for you atheists, some of you worship
yourselves, some science, some matter, and some your own atheism.
I do not worship anything.
However, I have faith in humanity and our ability to understand.
In that case, you worship your own belief in humanity's capacity
to know everything about everything. You worship science. Whether or
not you choose to admit this is your own problem.
Believers are not afraid of death because we know that life continues.
I am not afraid to die because I have that knowledge. There may be
parts of me that are afraid of death, just as they are in every human.
Fear of death is the number one fear of all humans. You are in denial
if you tell yourself you don't fear death. And I imagine on your death
bed, you will be more afraid then ever, because you honestly believe
that is it. I on the other hand will be comforted on my death bed,
because I know that eternal life awaits me.
I have heard this from so many theists I have lost count.
Let me explain something to you Hermes.
Fear of death comes from the possibility that there is no afterlife. Calm
shepards its certainty.
No. Fear of death came a long time before man believed in an
afterlife. Fear of death comes from the knowledge that one cannot live
forever, cannot have power forever(thus why pharoas were buried with
treasure) Fear of death comes from the knowledge that you are leaving
your loved ones behind. There are two types of fear of death. The
first is the fear of DEATH itself, which you possess. The second is
the fear of death, or more appropriately, of dying. This is the fear
of believers. You fear dying and DEATH. We fear only dying.
Atheists KNOW that when humans die that is it. An atheist on his or her
death bed will not likely want to die, but will not fear death because the
outcome is certain.
You will fear DEATH even more for the mere fact that you believe
it is the end. I don't think you will be able to cope woth your own
idea that your life was IT. And by the way, atheists don't know, they
believe. No one KNOWS what happenes after death. Unless of course you
have died and come back to life?
Theists will also not likely want to die on their death bed, but all they
have is faith that there is an afterlife. You may question your faith and
the continued existence you were promised as you die. That is when you will
fear.
I don't question my faith or the promise of eternal life. If one
questions ones faith, than one really doesnt have FAITH.
An atheist knows it's over.
Correction. An atheist THINKS it's over.
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| User: "~atheist" |
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| Title: Re: Why no one can prove or disprove god. ngpost |
01 Jul 2003 04:37:12 PM |
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(Hermes1912) wrote in
news:c6e350ee.0307010810.4227930e@posting.google.com:
I must agree with Reason on this one. Every human being worships
some god, whether they wish to admit it or not.
What defintion of god are you using?
The one I have given in the past. There is one definition of God.
For me and Reason, we
worship God, the REAL GOD.
You mean Rah, or Zeus?
I call him God. Jews call him YHWH or Elohim. Moslems call him
Allah. Maybe someone still calls him Zeus.
As for you atheists, some of you worship
yourselves, some science, some matter, and some your own atheism.
I do not worship anything.
However, I have faith in humanity and our ability to understand.
In that case, you worship your own belief in humanity's capacity
to know everything about everything. You worship science. Whether or
not you choose to admit this is your own problem.
I do not agree to the word worship since it entails continued reverence to
something, or the active role in praising something.
I do not worship anything.
Believers are not afraid of death because we know that life
continues. I am not afraid to die because I have that knowledge.
There may be parts of me that are afraid of death, just as they are
in every human. Fear of death is the number one fear of all humans.
You are in denial if you tell yourself you don't fear death. And I
imagine on your death bed, you will be more afraid then ever,
because you honestly believe that is it. I on the other hand will
be comforted on my death bed, because I know that eternal life
awaits me.
I have heard this from so many theists I have lost count.
Let me explain something to you Hermes.
Fear of death comes from the possibility that there is no afterlife.
Calm shepards its certainty.
No.
Yes!. WOw that was easy.
Fear of death came a long time before man believed in an
afterlife. Fear of death comes from the knowledge that one cannot live
forever, cannot have power forever(thus why pharoas were buried with
treasure) Fear of death comes from the knowledge that you are leaving
your loved ones behind. There are two types of fear of death. The
first is the fear of DEATH itself, which you possess. The second is
the fear of death, or more appropriately, of dying. This is the fear
of believers. You fear dying and DEATH. We fear only dying.
How about you stop fucking telling what I fear, or this conversation is
over.
Atheists KNOW that when humans die that is it. An atheist on his or
her death bed will not likely want to die, but will not fear death
because the outcome is certain.
You will fear DEATH even more for the mere fact that you believe
it is the end. I don't think you will be able to cope woth your own
idea that your life was IT. And by the way, atheists don't know, they
believe. No one KNOWS what happenes after death. Unless of course you
have died and come back to life?
Who the ***** do you think you are telling me what I fear and what I
beleive?
Is this the reason David and the Pope are blasting you?
Cause you have no idea about how to be even a little respectful?
Theists will also not likely want to die on their death bed, but all
they have is faith that there is an afterlife. You may question your
faith and the continued existence you were promised as you die. That
is when you will fear.
I don't question my faith or the promise of eternal life. If one
questions ones faith, than one really doesnt have FAITH.
An atheist knows it's over.
Correction. An atheist THINKS it's over.
And that is why they are at peace.
And atheist has NOTHING to lose, since they have no dellusional
preconceptions about death. If there is a life after death then we will all
win out, and I will be pleasently surprised.
Otherwise, I will be dead and the outcome is certain.
Regardless of what you want to pretend I believe (I guess for the purpose
of supporting your own dellusions) I do not feard death at all. I only do
not want to die.
If you will not accept my own statements of my beliefs and fears, then let
me know now, so I do not waste any more energy on you.
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| User: "Libertarius" |
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| Title: Re: Why no one can prove or disprove god. --- BAITS |
30 Jun 2003 08:51:55 PM |
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Hermes1912 wrote:
I must agree with Reason on this one. Every human being worships some
god, whether they wish to admit it or not. For me and Reason, we
worship God, the REAL GOD.
===>That is what they ALL claim.
Their imaginary B.A.I.T.S. (Big Anthropoid In The Sky)
is the ONLY REAL BAITS.
As for you atheists, some of you worship
yourselves, some science, some matter, and some your own atheism.
===>That is just a weird projection,
invented by believers to convince themselves they are not that
much of a freak.
Believers are not afraid of death because we know that life continues.
===>You confuse belief with knowledge.
In fact your own Bible contradicts that expectation,
all you need to do is read the right book.
I am not afraid to die because I have that knowledge.
===>You have a baseless BELIEF, which you CALL
"knowledge". The same way that a child "knows" his
invisible imaginary friend is there talking to him.
There may be
parts of me that are afraid of death, just as they are in every human.
Fear of death is the number one fear of all humans.
===>That is exactly why you believe all that invention about
after life.
You are in denial
if you tell yourself you don't fear death. And I imagine on your death
bed, you will be more afraid then ever, because you honestly believe
that is it. I on the other hand will be comforted on my death bed,
because I know that eternal life awaits me.
===>Well, one thing is certain: you will not be disappointed.
(Don't jump with joy, though. You will not be disappointed
because you will never know it did not happen!
Libertarius
====================
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| User: "Hermes1912" |
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| Title: Re: Why no one can prove or disprove god. --- BAITS |
01 Jul 2003 02:26:03 PM |
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I must agree with Reason on this one. Every human being worships some
god, whether they wish to admit it or not. For me and Reason, we
worship God, the REAL GOD.
===>That is what they ALL claim.
Their imaginary B.A.I.T.S. (Big Anthropoid In The Sky)
is the ONLY REAL BAITS.
God does not reside in the sky. It's not a claim, but a
well-founded belief.
As for you atheists, some of you worship
yourselves, some science, some matter, and some your own atheism.
===>That is just a weird projection,
invented by believers to convince themselves they are not that
much of a freak.
By the definition of a freak, you are stating that belivers are
abnromal people who go against the conventions of the world. Yet,
atheists only consists of 2.5% of the world population, and their
numbers are steadily on the decline. I'll let you fill in the holes.
===>You confuse belief with knowledge.
In fact your own Bible contradicts that expectation,
all you need to do is read the right book.
Tell me where the Bible contradicts, and I'll correct your
misinterpretation.
I am not afraid to die because I have that knowledge.
===>You have a baseless BELIEF, which you CALL
"knowledge". The same way that a child "knows" his
invisible imaginary friend is there talking to him.
If that arguement applies to my belief in God and an
afterlife, than it must also apply to your unbelief.
There may be
parts of me that are afraid of death, just as they are in every human.
Fear of death is the number one fear of all humans.
===>That is exactly why you believe all that invention about
after life.
Read my post in another thread.
===>Well, one thing is certain: you will not be disappointed.
(Don't jump with joy, though. You will not be disappointed
because you will never know it did not happen!
It is your opinion that is certain.
BTW, I won't be posting to this board anymore. There are five threads
going with the same conversation between the same people. It is
pointless to type the same thing five different places.
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| User: "Libertarius" |
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| Title: Re: Why no one can prove or disprove god. --- BAITS |
01 Jul 2003 06:41:40 PM |
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David wrote:
Hermes1912 wrote:
God does not reside in the sky. It's not a claim, but a
well-founded belief.
That's a good one. You're going to have to prove that
too. How is this belief "well founded"? You can't even
prove the god exists yet you're making claims as to
where it lives?
=== He is getting himslef into a web of self-contradictions.
First he argues that you must be a "God" to know where or whether
that "God" is or is not, now he suggests he KNOWS where "God"
is not, even though the Bible has numerous statements about
"God" being in the sky (a.k.a. "heaven")
2 Chronicles 30:27
Then the priests and the Levites gave the people a blessing:
and the voice of their prayer went up to the holy place of
God in heaven.
Psalms 115:3
But our God is in heaven:
he has done whatever was pleasing to him.
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| User: "MkUltra" |
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| Title: Re: Why no one can prove or disprove god. --- BAITS |
22 Jul 2003 01:48:39 PM |
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Hes probably refering to the practice of quoting anything from the bible and
presenting it as the word of God. Much of the old testament is a historical
account which contains things that where said by whoever was there instead
of God.
The War and Peace one is a prime example of that.
"Libertarius" <Libertarius@Nothing_But_The_Truth.net> wrote in message
news:3F1D85EF.1E49215E@Nothing_But_The_Truth.net...
Marty Scherr wrote:
David <dave@thellamaranch.com> wrote in message
news:<3f01ed27$1@news.sti.net>...
Hermes1912 wrote:
God does not reside in the sky. It's not a claim, but a
well-founded belief.
That's a good one. You're going to have to prove that
too. How is this belief "well founded"? You can't even
prove the god exists yet you're making claims as to
where it lives?
Tell me where the Bible contradicts, and I'll correct your
misinterpretation.
http://www.infidels.org/news/atheism/extra/bible-contradictions.html
The scripture references from the web site above are all taken out of
context with the rest of scripture. Just like you can't take one
sentence out of a book and understand the plot, you can't take one
bible verse at a time and say that it contradicts another verse
without considering the entire passage in which that verse is
contained.
===>WHICH of those quotations sound different WITHIN the
"passage"???
Can you specify a few, or are you just repeating the same old
excuse and dismissal by using the magic word "context"???
Libertarius
==========
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| User: "Pope Dilbert" |
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| Title: Re: Why no one can prove or disprove god. --- BAITS |
22 Jul 2003 03:52:48 PM |
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"MkUltra" <me@you.com> wrote in message
news:bGfTa.3250$WG7.1354413211@newssvr30.news.prodigy.com...
Hes probably refering to the practice of quoting anything from the bible
and
presenting it as the word of God. Much of the old testament is a
historical
account which contains things that where said by whoever was there instead
of God.
The old testiment, as is being found out by real archaeologists, is full of
fabrications.
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| User: "David" |
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| Title: Re: Why no one can prove or disprove god. --- BAITS |
22 Jul 2003 02:09:35 PM |
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MkUltra wrote:
Hes probably refering to the practice of quoting
anything from the bible and presenting it as the
word of God. Much of the old testament is a
historical account which contains things that where
said by whoever was there instead of God.
Sorry, much of the OT never happened or was written
about hundreds of years AFTER it was claimed to have
happened. A good example; Exodus, never happened.
--
David V.
Yosemite Llama Ranch
dave@TheLlamaRanch.com
http://www.TheLlamaRanch.com
UDP for WebTV
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| User: "David" |
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| Title: Re: Why no one can prove or disprove god. --- BAITS |
22 Jul 2003 05:51:32 PM |
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MkUltra wrote:
"David" <dave@thellamaranch.com> wrote
MkUltra wrote:
Hes probably refering[sic] to the practice of
quoting anything from the bible and presenting
it as the word of God. Much of the old
testament is a historical account which contains
things that where said by whoever was there
instead of God.
Sorry, much of the OT never happened or was
written about hundreds of years AFTER it was
claimed to have happened. A good example; Exodus,
never happened.
I fixed your rude top posting.
Thus further supporting our point that you cannot
take these quotes as literall[sic] directives.
Right you are. One should do as most christians do and
take what they like, or is convenient, and ignore the rest.
--
David V.
Yosemite Llama Ranch
dave@TheLlamaRanch.com
http://www.TheLlamaRanch.com
UDP for WebTV
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| User: "David" |
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| Title: Re: Why no one can prove or disprove god. --- BAITS |
23 Jul 2003 09:24:58 AM |
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Shawn wrote:
David <dave@thellamaranch.com> wrote in message news:<3f1d8ac7@news.sti.net>...
Marty Scherr wrote:
David <dave@thellamaranch.com> wrote
Hermes1912 wrote:
God does not reside in the sky. It's not a
claim, but a well-founded belief.
That's a good one. You're going to have to prove
that too. How is this belief "well founded"? You
can't even prove the god exists yet you're making
claims as to where it lives?
Tell me where the Bible contradicts, and I'll
correct your misinterpretation.
http://www.infidels.org/news/atheism/extra/bible-contradictions.html
The scripture references from the web site above are
all taken out of context.....
A common whine from christians that take more of their
bible out of context then they claim others do.
For what it's worth...I know God is real because I saw God.
They have pills that can help you with that problem.
--
David V.
Yosemite Llama Ranch
dave@TheLlamaRanch.com
http://www.TheLlamaRanch.com
UDP for WebTV
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| User: "Julius" |
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| Title: Re: Why no one can prove or disprove god. --- BAITS |
13 Aug 2003 09:56:54 PM |
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Shawn,
I too had such an experience... albeit different than yours... it
changed me...
And to this day I cannot deny God.... and continue to worship and
appreciate that vision that I had... although the presence of God was
so overwhelming... I actually slowly crushed to the ground, falling in
tears... clearly, I felt not worthy somehow... and I knew I had to do
more for God... and had been totally missing the point of my search
for truth... overlooking the obvious...
Very similar to your experience... isn't it strange? I literally
changed my entire perspective on life and appreciation of things...
that was in the year 2000, I started to love even the most minutest
things... like leaves of trees... even WALLS of a building took on new
meaning...everything around me became intensely beautiful crying out
in spiritual life... I had never notice before...
I really had no plan to become religious after that... but eventually
I did end up going to church... and I never thought I would end up
there... I guess that is why they are there...
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| User: "Julius" |
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| Title: Re: Why no one can prove or disprove god. --- BAITS |
14 Aug 2003 10:11:28 PM |
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many people have felt the same effects .. under drugs, psychotic delusions
or extreme stress.
actually I was not on drugs... I do feel it was psychotic, in fact,
that was my first reaction was to start thinking of how this logically
must have occured because of some things that I had been thinking
about and wanting...
I had self implanted the basic idea that I wanted God in my life in a
prayer (even though at that time I didn't really pray very much at
all)... I saw a prayer that said I can pray for anything I wanted and
that it will come true and that it had never failed...So not wanting
to be crass and pray for $1 million, I prayed for God to come to me...
thought that would be neat simple innocent thing to pray for.... I
didn't pray to be religious since I had always felt religion wasn't
needed...
But, the thing is... that when this vision happened, it was very
intense and even though I was logically able to explain almost every
part of it as a self-implanted suggestion... it really didn't even
matter...I still felt and do to this day that God really exists... and
somehow revealed himself to me...
This was not delusional in the sense that I continued to have psychic
visions and hearing voices... and needed medication... it happened one
night and ended...
I really had no plan to become religious after that... but eventually
I did end up going to church... and I never thought I would end up
there... I guess that is why they are there...
A VERY good friend of mine, and a very honest believer, QUIT going to church
because, as she and many others found out .. that is NOT why they are all
there.
Yeah, churches are not perfect... for sure... they may be corrupt, but
they are there for me to go to worship God... I don't those negatives
spoil what I feel are the good parts of the church...
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| User: "David" |
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| Title: Re: Why no one can prove or disprove god. --- BAITS |
14 Aug 2003 11:27:19 PM |
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Julius wrote:
many people have felt the same effects .. under
drugs, psychotic delusions or extreme stress.
actually I was not on drugs... I do feel it was
psychotic...
Sounds like Temporal Lobe Epilepsy.
--
David V.
Yosemite Llama Ranch
dave@TheLlamaRanch.com
http://www.TheLlamaRanch.com
UDP for WebTV
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| User: "Timothy Hayes" |
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| Title: Re: Why no one can prove or disprove god. --- BAITS |
11 Aug 2003 08:56:00 PM |
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So, every time you choose not to say something stupid it is god holding your
tongue?
Imagine, someone singing 'Silent Night' in a mall on xmas eve! A true
miracle! Did you even try to find an earthly explanation, like maybe there
was a group of people dressed similarly raising money for charity? That
might me common on xmas eve, ya know.
You became hopeless after having two other interventions that convinced you
that "that God is real"? Did you not listen the other two times? If they
were so life-changing, how can you be hopeless?
All convert are encouraged to come up with a conversion story. A
fantastical account of your meeting with god or Jesus, face to face.
Whether you did it consciously (like me) or whether you successfully deluded
yourself into denying it, it is the same. A few questions:
What exactly does 'the light of a thousand suns' look like? I have breifly
looked at our one sun and I gotta say it hurt. If were truly that bright,
you would not have seen anything, even in a dream.
Was it god or Jesus that appeared to you? I realize that to some it is one
in the same, but was he an elderly man with a white beard and hair or was he
a younger man with long brown hair and a beard? One is the stereotypical
god, the other is the stereotypical Jesus. Have you ever noticed that your
god looks alot like the Greek god Zeus? That image of god was chosen by
the catholic church because, at the time, Zeus was the most powerful and
feared god by the people that the catholic church was attempting to convert.
Have you ever noticed that Jesus seems to be caucasian? If he truly
appeared the way he looked (being a Jew from Arab lands), he would look alot
more swarthy-skinned than the paintings you see in church. Also, check out
the crucificion paintings. The wound on the hands is in the wrong place.
The wrist, not the palm.
God is a person? I thought that god was the very definition of being not a
person. Even Jesus could not be considered truly human if he had within his
power to leave the earthly life at any moment. It is really not much of a
sacrifice to lose one's life if one's life is not truly lost, ala Jesus and
the crucificion.
"Shawn" <shawnt42@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3363a3e6.0307221952.5c6bbf97@posting.google.com...
David <dave@thellamaranch.com> wrote in message
news:<3f1d8ac7@news.sti.net>...
Marty Scherr wrote:
David <dave@thellamaranch.com> wrote
Hermes1912 wrote:
God does not reside in the sky. It's not a
claim, but a well-founded belief.
That's a good one. You're going to have to prove
that too. How is this belief "well founded"? You
can't even prove the god exists yet you're making
claims as to where it lives?
Tell me where the Bible contradicts, and I'll
correct your misinterpretation.
http://www.infidels.org/news/atheism/extra/bible-contradictions.html
The scripture references from the web site above are
all taken out of context.....
A common whine from christians that take more of their
bible out of context then they claim others do.
For what it's worth...I know God is real because I saw God. If you're
interested you can read about it at
http://www.geocities.com/shawnt42/Home.html.
.
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| User: "Bob Crowley" |
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| Title: Re: Why no one can prove or disprove god. --- BAITS |
13 Aug 2003 09:41:39 AM |
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"Timothy Hayes" <timothyhayes@cox.net> wrote in message news:<QOXZa.343141$o86.159340@news1.central.cox.net>...
All convert are encouraged to come up with a conversion story. A
fantastical account of your meeting with god or Jesus, face to face.
Whether you did it consciously (like me) or whether you successfully deluded
yourself into denying it, it is the same. A few questions:
I haven't heard of a conversion story like this one. Most of them are
fairly ordinary, but real to the person describing them.
God is a person? I thought that god was the very definition of being not a
person. Even Jesus could not be considered truly human if he had within his
power to leave the earthly life at any moment. It is really not much of a
sacrifice to lose one's life if one's life is not truly lost, ala Jesus and
the crucificion.
God is a person in the sense He has personality. Those things we
think of as part of personality - humour, intelligence, communication,
empathy, judgement, giving, charity, love, hate, power, weakness etc.
- are a shadow in us of the transcendent qualities in Him.
The risk God took in the Incarnation with the resultant crucifixion,
resurrection etc. is that Christ would back out, call on the angelic
rescue squad, and take the easy way out. Had He done so, I think it
would have been the end of creation. If you had the choice of going
through a scourging with a steel and bone tipped rod, the humiliation,
ridicule, and the crucifixion with large nails through your hands and
feet, all the while knowing you had done nohting to deserve it, what
would you have done? Submitted meekly? Kept quiet?
As far as the actual shape of spiritual beings go, I think angels on
those rare occasions they appear, manipulate our minds so that we
think they are anthropromorphic, in order not to alarm us too much.
Bob Crowley.
PS
Now watch "prove it" come to the fore.
RJC.
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| User: "Contraband" |
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| Title: Re: Why no one can prove or disprove god. --- BAITS |
13 Aug 2003 06:12:01 PM |
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"Bob Crowley" <bobcrowley@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:adff117.0308130641.e9c55a6@posting.google.com...
"Timothy Hayes" <timothyhayes@cox.net> wrote in message
news:<QOXZa.343141$o86.159340@news1.central.cox.net>...
All convert are encouraged to come up with a conversion story. A
fantastical account of your meeting with god or Jesus, face to face.
Whether you did it consciously (like me) or whether you successfully
deluded
yourself into denying it, it is the same. A few questions:
I haven't heard of a conversion story like this one. Most of them are
fairly ordinary, but real to the person describing them.
Yes, real only to the person describing them
God is a person? I thought that god was the very definition of being
not a
person. Even Jesus could not be considered truly human if he had within
his
power to leave the earthly life at any moment. It is really not much of
a
sacrifice to lose one's life if one's life is not truly lost, ala Jesus
and
the crucificion.
God is a person in the sense He has personality. Those things we
think of as part of personality - humour, intelligence, communication,
empathy, judgement, giving, charity, love, hate, power, weakness etc.
- are a shadow in us of the transcendent qualities in Him.
So Christ was only partially human, not completely human? If he was not
completely and utterly human then doesn't that negate the comparison of his
willingness compared to other humans? In other words, if it was easier for
him to endure the alleged amount of humiliation and pain than humans, then
the sacrifice loses all meaning.
The risk God took in the Incarnation with the resultant crucifixion,
resurrection etc. is that Christ would back out, call on the angelic
rescue squad, and take the easy way out. Had He done so, I think it
would have been the end of creation. If you had the choice of going
through a scourging with a steel and bone tipped rod, the humiliation,
ridicule, and the crucifixion with large nails through your hands and
feet, all the while knowing you had done nohting to deserve it, what
would you have done? Submitted meekly? Kept quiet?
If Jesus is god, then there was no risk he would back out.
As far as the actual shape of spiritual beings go, I think angels on
those rare occasions they appear, manipulate our minds so that we
think they are anthropromorphic, in order not to alarm us too much.
That was not my comment. My comment was conerning the exact image that he
saw. He claims that Jesus/god appeared just as he **expected** him to
appear. I suggest that the vision was pure imagination because it is
unlikely that god truly appears the way portrayed in painting. This is
because human would surely die at the sight of him. Therefore, no accurate
painting of him can exist.
Bob Crowley.
PS
Now watch "prove it" come to the fore.
RJC.
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| User: "Misty" |
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| Title: Re: Why no one can prove or disprove god. --- BAITS |
12 Aug 2003 01:30:32 AM |
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FYI, Xmas as you call it is not a Christian Holiday! It is as
pagan as Easter.
Misty,
Timothy Hayes wrote:
So, every time you choose not to say something stupid it is god holding your
tongue?
Imagine, someone singing 'Silent Night' in a mall on xmas eve! A true
miracle! Did you even try to find an earthly explanation, like maybe there
was a group of people dressed similarly raising money for charity? That
might me common on xmas eve, ya know.
You became hopeless after having two other interventions that convinced you
that "that God is real"? Did you not listen the other two times? If they
were so life-changing, how can you be hopeless?
All convert are encouraged to come up with a conversion story. A
fantastical account of your meeting with god or Jesus, face to face.
Whether you did it consciously (like me) or whether you successfully deluded
yourself into denying it, it is the same. A few questions:
What exactly does 'the light of a thousand suns' look like? I have breifly
looked at our one sun and I gotta say it hurt. If were truly that bright,
you would not have seen anything, even in a dream.
Was it god or Jesus that appeared to you? I realize that to some it is one
in the same, but was he an elderly man with a white beard and hair or was he
a younger man with long brown hair and a beard? One is the stereotypical
god, the other is the stereotypical Jesus. Have you ever noticed that your
god looks alot like the Greek god Zeus? That image of god was chosen by
the catholic church because, at the time, Zeus was the most powerful and
feared god by the people that the catholic church was attempting to convert.
Have you ever noticed that Jesus seems to be caucasian? If he truly
appeared the way he looked (being a Jew from Arab lands), he would look alot
more swarthy-skinned than the paintings you see in church. Also, check out
the crucificion paintings. The wound on the hands is in the wrong place.
The wrist, not the palm.
God is a person? I thought that god was the very definition of being not a
person. Even Jesus could not be considered truly human if he had within his
power to leave the earthly life at any moment. It is really not much of a
sacrifice to lose one's life if one's life is not truly lost, ala Jesus and
the crucificion.
"Shawn" <shawnt42@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3363a3e6.0307221952.5c6bbf97@posting.google.com...
David <dave@thellamaranch.com> wrote in message
news:<3f1d8ac7@news.sti.net>...
Marty Scherr wrote:
David <dave@thellamaranch.com> wrote
Hermes1912 wrote:
God does not reside in the sky. It's not a
claim, but a well-founded belief.
That's a good one. You're going to have to prove
that too. How is this belief "well founded"? You
can't even prove the god exists yet you're making
claims as to where it lives?
Tell me where the Bible contradicts, and I'll
correct your misinterpretation.
http://www.infidels.org/news/atheism/extra/bible-contradictions.html
The scripture references from the web site above are
all taken out of context.....
A common whine from christians that take more of their
bible out of context then they claim others do.
For what it's worth...I know God is real because I saw God. If you're
interested you can read about it at
http://www.geocities.com/shawnt42/Home.html.
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| User: "David" |
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| Title: Re: Why no one can prove or disprove god. ngpost |
30 Jun 2003 10:24:10 PM |
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Hermes1912 wrote:
I must agree with Reason on this one. Every human
being worships some god
As an Atheist, I do not believe in any gods, therefore,
I do not worship any. Again, why do you have to lie in
order to support your gods?
--
David V.
Yosemite Llama Ranch
dave@TheLlamaRanch.com
http://www.TheLlamaRanch.com
UDP for WebTV
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| User: "Pope Dilbert" |
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| Title: Re: Why no one can prove or disprove god. ngpost |
01 Jul 2003 10:13:24 AM |
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"Marty Scherr" <marty_scherr@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:b8b11000.0307010606.35a76850@posting.google.com...
David <dave@thellamaranch.com> wrote in message
news:<3f00fe77@news.sti.net>...
Hermes1912 wrote:
I must agree with Reason on this one. Every human
being worships some god
As an Atheist, I do not believe in any gods, therefore,
I do not worship any. Again, why do you have to lie in
order to support your gods?
By what standard can you measure that someone is lying? You must have
some standard by which you are making your assessment.
Hermes has blatantly lied many times during his trollong.
By what standard?
By telling something that is wrong.
What grade are you in?
How can you
disprove that the points being made are lies. Do you have conclusive
evidence that they are lies? You constantly dance around this type of
question with the "burden of proof" argument.
The "burdent of proof" is not a dance - it's logical reality
If a bozo says "A' = "B"........ it is obviously a lie .. and the claimant
has to suport it being the truth.
The fact of the matter
is that no human has the ability to 100% prove or disprove the
existence of God.
The fact of the matter, no one has the ability to 100% prove - or even
disprove, anything.
The CLAIM made was about the existence of god - which, even by your own
statement, CANNOT be proven.
All the opposition keeps on sayaing is - prove it ..... and all the
bellowers reply with are lies.
Therefore, that proves that is possible he exists.
The human imagination can invent trillions and trillions upon trillions of
things.
Just because they can "imagine" or "create them" iuin their mind does not
mena they exist.
Of course, ...by absolute logic ... there is ALWAYS that possiblity.....
Human beings are very well designed, complicated beings.
No. They are not.
Ask any old person how their back is doing......or a diabetic what their
sugar level is ... or someone who just had their appendix removed..
Complicated - yes; well designed - no ....we're stilll evolving from our
ape-like ancestros and haven't even worked out standing upright without back
problems!
It's pure
ignorance to think that we simply evolved by natural selection from
pond scum.
It's pure ignorance to assume we were wished into place by a claimed being
that has no supportive evidence for its existence!
Scientists have done studies on the whole "Big Bang"
theory and concluded that even the slightest variation of the
environment that we can Earth would make it impossible for humans to
survive.
Damn, dipshit .. you really ARE that stupid!
Scientists studying the "Big Bang" are NOT studying the environmental
effects of life on earth!
The earth's environments vary from bone dry, to soaking wet .. from
constantly frezing to "hot enough to fry an egg on the sidewalk". Yet we've
managed to populate a large protion of that varying environment.
Apparently you're just bellowing ignorance.
It seems quite impossible that even if the "Big Bang" theory
is true, that an Intelligent Being didn't cause the "Big Bang".
What "seems impossible" to you, is totally meaningless.
There is no evidence of any "being" behind the "Big Bang" or an other event
in the whole universe.
Human
DNA is a well designed chemical code -- meaning it had to have an
intelligent designer who created it.
No; it doesn't.
Complicated things evolved from simpler things .. similar to the way ALL
elements "evolved" from Hydrogen!
By the way, atheists, I need
more to convince me that your viewpoint is even somewhat valid than to
just say "the burden of proof is on Christians."
The burden of proof is on christians who claim god exists ... because they
are the ones claiming god exists!
You say you don't
have to disprove the existence of God, because you can't do it.
and??????????
you still hve to prove it!
You
can't even make a reasonable argument that he doesn't exist.
The FACT that ther eis, and has never been, any valid evidence to support
your claim is a VERY reasonable argument!
By the
way, just because you call Christians liars and insist on using
insults to support your case, it doesn't work. You cannot convince us
Christians that we are wrong but simply insulting us.
and you cannot convince us you are right, smart, honest or have even two
brain cells to rub together when you create such outlanidisly STUPID
arguments for the existence of god!
If you truely
think you are right, I challenge you to make a reasonable claim and
spare us the fowl language and insults.
Reasonable claim:
There is absolutely NO valid evidence to support the claims about the
existence of god.
Now ... lets see you respond with something that isn't just a mere rehashing
of the usual hogwash, delusions, lies and distortions of logic and reality!
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| User: "~atheist" |
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| Title: Re: Why no one can prove or disprove god. ngpost |
05 Jul 2003 06:45:26 PM |
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(Marty Scherr) wrote in
news:b8b11000.0307010606.35a76850@posting.google.com:
David <dave@thellamaranch.com> wrote in message
news:<3f00fe77@news.sti.net>...
Hermes1912 wrote:
I must agree with Reason on this one. Every human
being worships some god
As an Atheist, I do not believe in any gods, therefore,
I do not worship any. Again, why do you have to lie in
order to support your gods?
By what standard can you measure that someone is lying? You must have
some standard by which you are making your assessment. How can you
disprove that the points being made are lies. Do you have conclusive
evidence that they are lies?
HE DOESN'T BELIEVE IN GOD!!
Atheists do not worship any gods!!
Therefore Hermes is lying when he says all humans worship some god!!
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| User: "~atheist" |
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| Title: Re: Why no one can prove or disprove god. ngpost |
05 Jul 2003 07:01:55 PM |
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(Marty Scherr) wrote in
news:b8b11000.0307010606.35a76850@posting.google.com:
You constantly dance around this type of
question with the "burden of proof" argument. The fact of the matter
is that no human has the ability to 100% prove or disprove the
existence of God.
You only have to find a single shred of testable evidence to give god some
credibility. None has ever been produced.
Therefore, that proves that is possible he exists.
I guess it also proves that invisible leprachauns live on the moon.
Or that there are little gnomes that turn the light off in my fridge.
Human beings are very well designed, complicated beings. It's pure
ignorance to think that we simply evolved by natural selection from
pond scum.
How well do you think humans could survive if their brains were
disfuntional?
How well do you think humans could survive if their were partially blind,
or couln't run, or smell, or hear?
We work so well because if we didn't we would go extinct.
Scientists have done studies on the whole "Big Bang"
theory and concluded that even the slightest variation of the
environment that we can Earth would make it impossible for humans to
survive.
And, what's your point?
It seems quite impossible that even if the "Big Bang" theory
is true, that an Intelligent Being didn't cause the "Big Bang".
Ohh I see...
Where did you get your degree in astrophysics?
Human
DNA is a well designed chemical code -- meaning it had to have an
intelligent designer who created it.
Ahh, so you calling it designed must then make it designed.
By the way, atheists, I need
more to convince me that your viewpoint is even somewhat valid than to
just say "the burden of proof is on Christians."
You have no proof.
Reality is natural, not supernatural. Until evidence is provided to suport
the supernatural it is foolish to beleive the supernatural happens.
You say you don't
have to disprove the existence of God, because you can't do it. You
can't even make a reasonable argument that he doesn't exist.
Do you worship Zeus?
Do you have any reason to believe Zeus is a myth and not real?
Is there anything that gives you reason not to beleive in the 10's of
thousands of other gods that have existed in human religion?
You are a hypocrite.
You require a reason to not beleive in the Christian god, but have NO
problem ignoring all of the other gods through out human history without
any proof of their non-existence.
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| User: "Hermes1912" |
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| Title: Re: Why no one can prove or disprove god. ngpost |
01 Jul 2003 11:02:15 AM |
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As an Atheist, I do not believe in any gods, therefore,
I do not worship any. Again, why do you have to lie in
order to support your gods?
Why are you in denial that you do not worship a "god". In your
case, David, I believe your "god" is your belief in your own total
knowledge. You know you don't and can't know everything, so you
worship your own belief that you do and can, ignoring the truth.
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| User: "David" |
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| Title: Re: Why no one can prove or disprove god. ngpost |
01 Jul 2003 11:10:08 AM |
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Hermes1912 wrote:
As an Atheist, I do not believe in any gods,
therefore, I do not worship any. Again, why do you
have to lie in order to support your gods?
Why are you in denial that you do not worship a
"god".
The definition of Atheism is a lack of belief in gods.
Maybe you should learn the definitions of words you're
attempting to use. Again, why do you have to lie about it?
--
David V.
Yosemite Llama Ranch
dave@TheLlamaRanch.com
http://www.TheLlamaRanch.com
UDP for WebTV
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| User: "Hermes1912" |
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| Title: Re: Why no one can prove or disprove god. ngpost |
01 Jul 2003 04:13:20 PM |
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Why are you in denial that you do not worship a
"god".
The definition of Atheism is a lack of belief in gods.
Maybe you should learn the definitions of words you're
attempting to use. Again, why do you have to lie about it?
I am aware of the definition of Atheism. My point was that it's
very definition is flawed. No matter how much you choose to deny it,
you do worship a god.
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| User: "Libertarius" |
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| Title: Re: Why no one can prove or disprove god. ngpost |
01 Jul 2003 06:45:03 PM |
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Hermes1912 wrote:
Why are you in denial that you do not worship a
"god".
The definition of Atheism is a lack of belief in gods.
Maybe you should learn the definitions of words you're
attempting to use. Again, why do you have to lie about it?
I am aware of the definition of Atheism. My point was that it's
very definition is flawed. No matter how much you choose to deny it,
you do worship a god.
===>No matter how much you deny it,
you do worship Satan.
Prove that you don't!
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| User: "David" |
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| Title: Re: Why no one can prove or disprove god. |
01 Jul 2003 05:49:58 PM |
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Hermes1912 wrote:
Why are you in denial that you do not worship a
"god".
The definition of Atheism is a lack of belief in
gods. Maybe you should learn the definitions of
words you're attempting to use. Again, why do you
have to lie about it?
I am aware of the definition of Atheism.
Apparently not.
My point was that it's very definition is flawed.
The definition is accurate. I am without belief in
gods. Your dire need for justification of your
unsupported belief in gods does not allow you to
acknowledge that some just don't believe in such silliness.
No matter how much you choose to deny it, you do
worship a god.
Your definition of a god had something to do with it
creating and ruling the universe. According to that
definition, I have no belief in a god. You also claimed
the god was a male by referring to it as a "He". You
can't even prove this god exists yet you know the
arrangement of it's genitals?
--
David V.
Yosemite Llama Ranch
dave@TheLlamaRanch.com
http://www.TheLlamaRanch.com
UDP for WebTV
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| User: "Libertarius" |
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| Title: Re: Why no one can prove or disprove god. ngpost |
01 Jul 2003 12:20:27 PM |
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David wrote:
Hermes1912 wrote:
I must agree with Reason on this one. Every human
being worships some god
As an Atheist, I do not believe in any gods, therefore,
I do not worship any. Again, why do you have to lie in
order to support your gods?
===>As I have stated many times, it is a matter of
definitions.
Obviously what Spinoza and Einstein referred to as "GOD
"does indeed exist. Most of us call it NATURE,
THE COSMOS -- I call it the TOTALITY OF ALL EXISTENCE.
Calling it "GOD" is a personal choice of the Pantheists.
Some other "GODS", like PELE of Hawaii, the planets Saturn,
Jupiter, Mars, the god SOL and the goddess LUNA, also do
exist, even if most of us would not call them gods.
And, of course, in the mind of every believer
(regardless of the person's religion or denomination)
there exists one or more deities of their own
imagination.
Thus, a flat "no gods exist" is not quite correct,
either.
Libertarius
====================
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| User: "Bart Jones" |
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| Title: Re: Why no one can prove or disprove god. ngpost |
02 Aug 2003 04:44:41 AM |
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"Libertarius" <The_Truth_The_Whole_Truth@Nothing_But_The.Truth> wrote in
message news:088e28d723924d176286ef91df721fe5@news.scbiz.com...
Some other "GODS", like PELE of Hawaii, the planets Saturn,
Jupiter, Mars, the god SOL and the goddess LUNA, also do
exist, even if most of us would not call them gods.
<snip>
Pele is from Brazil. :-)
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| User: "Hermes1912" |
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| Title: Re: Why no one can prove or disprove god. ngpost |
01 Jul 2003 04:16:45 PM |
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===>As I have stated many times, it is a matter of
definitions.
Obviously what Spinoza and Einstein referred to as "GOD
"does indeed exist. Most of us call it NATURE,
THE COSMOS -- I call it the TOTALITY OF ALL EXISTENCE.
Calling it "GOD" is a personal choice of the Pantheists.
Some other "GODS", like PELE of Hawaii, the planets Saturn,
Jupiter, Mars, the god SOL and the goddess LUNA, also do
exist, even if most of us would not call them gods.
I speak not of universal bodies such as suns, moons, and
planets. I am telling you that your "TOTALITY OF ALL EXISTENCE" has
not always been. I am telling you that Nature could not have simply
appeared from nothing. This is logical, wouldn't you agree? Indeed,
you already have in the past. That something cannot create itself
(cannot come from nothing)?
And, of course, in the mind of every believer
(regardless of the person's religion or denomination)
there exists one or more deities of their own
imagination.
I disagree flatly with this statement. I believe in one god, THE
GOD. I hold as a god nothing else.
Thus, a flat "no gods exist" is not quite correct,
either.
So, in one swoop you have just denied your own atheism.
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| User: "Libertarius" |
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| Title: Re: Why no one can prove or disprove god. ngpost |
01 Jul 2003 06:54:29 PM |
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Hermes1912 wrote:
===>As I have stated many times, it is a matter of
definitions.
Obviously what Spinoza and Einstein referred to as "GOD
"does indeed exist. Most of us call it NATURE,
THE COSMOS -- I call it the TOTALITY OF ALL EXISTENCE.
Calling it "GOD" is a personal choice of the Pantheists.
Some other "GODS", like PELE of Hawaii, the planets Saturn,
Jupiter, Mars, the god SOL and the goddess LUNA, also do
exist, even if most of us would not call them gods.
I speak not of universal bodies such as suns, moons, and
planets. I am telling you that your "TOTALITY OF ALL EXISTENCE" has
not always been.
===>WOW!
Now you are even denying your own "God", an entity who by
definition would be part of any "totality of all existence"!
I am telling you that Nature could not have simply
appeared from nothing.
===>Who said it did?
Only YOU make such silly assertions -- or counter-assertions.
This is logical, wouldn't you agree?
===>WHAT is "logical?
That the totality of all existence did not exist at some
time in the past? How is THAT "logical"???
Indeed,
you already have in the past. That something cannot create itself
(cannot come from nothing)?
===>That is correct. That is why the "God" you are pushing
cannot possibly exist.
And, of course, in the mind of every believer
(regardless of the person's religion or denomination)
there exists one or more deities of their own
imagination.
I disagree flatly with this statement. I believe in one god, THE
GOD. I hold as a god nothing else.
===>That is exactly what all other "believers" say regarding THEIR
idea of a "GOD".
Thus, a flat "no gods exist" is not quite correct,
either.
So, in one swoop you have just denied your own atheism.
===>So, "in one swoop" you demonstrated
once again what a thoughtless, hasty arguer and labeler
you are!
When did I claim to be an "atheist"??? -- L.
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