Religions > Bible > REAL Christians Want NO Part of Loathsom& Hateful Agendas
| Topic: |
Religions > Bible |
| User: |
"Craig Chilton -- Countdown to 1/20/09: 1,506 days to BYE-BYE Bushie! Forever!!" |
| Date: |
06 Dec 2004 08:17:14 PM |
| Object: |
REAL Christians Want NO Part of Loathsom& Hateful Agendas |
87% of America's population is comprised of professing
Christians.
OF that number, 94% are sensible, fair-minded, and tlolerant
people who do absolutely NOTHING whatsoever to support the
loathsome agendas of being Anti-Choice with respect to abortion,
and seeking to DENY the right of marriage to same-sex couples.
The **remaining** 6% is made up of DELUDED Christians and
PSEUDO-Christians who hatefully seek to impose totally-unnnec-
essary immense hardship and misery upon tens of millions of women
by FORCING them to gestate to term against their will... and who
heartlessly seek to deny marriage (and many other rights) to homo-
sexuals over the utterly TRIVIAL characteristic of sexual orientation.
This has been just a quick reminder to anyone who confuses
the ignorant and hateful RRR cultists with REAL Christians, in hopes
of staving off persecution of the innocent (the real Christians) when
the inevitable backlash against the bigots (the RRR cultists) finally
takes place.
For more details, I invite you to see my re-post (now on your
servers in all five of these groups) entitled:
ACTUAL Christians and RRR Cultists: diametric *opposites*!
Don't let the latter DECEIVE you!
-- Craig Chilton <xanadu222_@mchsi.com>
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
Every time a person supports bigotry in public, and presents NO
relevant FACTS to back his/her stance in behalf of a loathsome
agenda against individual liberties and human rights, that person
has -- ironically -- further **damaged** the cause he/she supports.
And every time a fair-minded and sensible egalitarian opposes
such a bigot, publicly, and **presents** relevant FACTS that are
damaging to the bigot's agenda, that TOO is an additional nail in
the coffin lid of the agenda, and a push of that casket CLOSER
to the Drain of Extinction -- its well-deserved ultimate destination.
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
(E-Mail address is valid when removing _ from it.)
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| User: "Gactimus" |
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| Title: Re: REAL Christians Want NO Part of Loathsom& Hateful Agendas |
06 Dec 2004 08:55:20 PM |
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(Craig Chilton -- Countdown to 1/20/09: 1,506 days to
BYE-BYE Bushie! Forever!!) wrote in
news:41b80f6b.62402888@netnews.mchsi.com:
The **remaining** 6% is made up of DELUDED Christians and
PSEUDO-Christians
Like you no doubt.
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| User: "JTEM" |
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| Title: Re: REAL Christians Want NO Part of Loathsom& Hateful Agendas |
06 Dec 2004 10:29:16 PM |
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"Gactimus" <gactimus@xrs.net> wrote
(Craig Chilton -- Countdown to 1/20/09: 1,506 days to
BYE-BYE Bushie! Forever!!):
The **remaining** 6% is made up of DELUDED Christians and
PSEUDO-Christians
Like you no doubt.
That's... tell him... something.
Um, would you care to explain that to us?
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| User: "Ray Fischer" |
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| Title: Re: REAL Christians Want NO Part of Loathsom& Hateful Agendas |
06 Dec 2004 10:14:15 PM |
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Gactimus <gactimus@xrs.net> wrote:
xanadu222_@mchsi.com (Craig Chilton -- Countdown to 1/20/09: 1,506 days to
The **remaining** 6% is made up of DELUDED Christians and
PSEUDO-Christians
Like you no doubt.
Tell us again how many people you want to see killed.
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
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| User: "Craig Chilton -- Countdown to 1/20/09: 1,506 days to BYE-BYE Bushie! Forever!!" |
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| Title: Re: REAL Christians Want NO Part of Loathsom& Hateful Agendas |
06 Dec 2004 09:49:13 PM |
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On Tue, 07 Dec 2004 02:55:20 GMT,
Gactimus <gactimus@xrs.net> wrote:
Craig Chilton <xanadu222_@mchsi.com> wrote:
87% of America's population is comprised of professing
Christians.
OF that number, 94% are sensible, fair-minded, and tlolerant
people who do absolutely NOTHING whatsoever to support the
loathsome agendas of being Anti-Choice with respect to abortion,
and seeking to DENY the right of marriage to same-sex couples.
The **remaining** 6% is made up of DELUDED Christians and
PSEUDO-Christians...
Like you no doubt.
The only thing in DOUBT is is whether or not *you* have
any common sense, honesty, or much of a working brain.
Because you obviously don't give a rat's ***** for people and
their rights. Typical deficiences that afflict the vast majority
of those who are hateful and ignorant enough to **be** RRR
cultists.
...who hatefully seek to impose totally-unnnecessary immense
hardship and misery upon tens of millions of women by FORCING
them to gestate to term against their will... and who heartlessly seek
to deny marriage (and many other rights) to homosexuals over the
utterly TRIVIAL characteristic of sexual orientation.
This has been just a quick reminder to anyone who confuses
the ignorant and hateful RRR cultists with REAL Christians, in hopes
of staving off persecution of the innocent (the real Christians) when
the inevitable backlash against the bigots (the RRR cultists) finally
takes place.
For more details, I invite you to see my re-post (now on your
servers in all five of these groups) entitled:
ACTUAL Christians and RRR Cultists: diametric *opposites*!
Don't let the latter DECEIVE you!
-- Craig Chilton <xanadu222_@mchsi.com>
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
Every time a person supports bigotry in public, and presents NO
relevant FACTS to back his/her stance in behalf of a loathsome
agenda against individual liberties and human rights, that person
has -- ironically -- further **damaged** the cause he/she supports.
And every time a fair-minded and sensible egalitarian opposes
such a bigot, publicly, and **presents** relevant FACTS that are
damaging to the bigot's agenda, that TOO is an additional nail in
the coffin lid of the agenda, and a push of that casket CLOSER
to the Drain of Extinction -- its well-deserved ultimate destination.
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
(E-Mail address is valid when removing _ from it.)
.
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| User: "Somewriter" |
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| Title: Re: REAL Christians Want NO Part of Loathsom& Hateful Agendas |
07 Dec 2004 06:54:06 AM |
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On Tue, 07 Dec 2004 02:55:20 GMT, Gactimus <gactimus@xrs.net> wrote:
xanadu222_@mchsi.com (Craig Chilton -- Countdown to 1/20/09: 1,506 days to
BYE-BYE Bushie! Forever!!) wrote in
news:41b80f6b.62402888@netnews.mchsi.com:
The **remaining** 6% is made up of DELUDED Christians and
PSEUDO-Christians
Like you no doubt.
Genuinely spiritual people don't make it apoint to injure or kill
people, based on their sipiritual beliefs, race, creed, gender, sexual
orientation, etc.
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| User: "Scott Marquardt" |
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| Title: Re: REAL Christians Want NO Part of Loathsom& Hateful Agendas |
06 Dec 2004 11:43:42 PM |
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opined thusly on Dec 6:
87% of America's population is comprised of professing
Christians.
OF that number, 94% are sensible, fair-minded, and tlolerant
people who do absolutely NOTHING whatsoever to support the
loathsome agendas of being Anti-Choice with respect to abortion,
and seeking to DENY the right of marriage to same-sex couples.
Really? That comes to 82% of America being pro-choice and in favor of gay
marriage.
I'll have to ask you to support not only the 87% and 94% figures, but that
the derivative 82% of Americans are pro-choice (I'll leave it to someone
else to look up polling on gay marriage).
For example, a Zogby poll not too long ago showed that 56% of Americans did
not favor the legality of 96% of all abortions.
The **remaining** 6% is made up of DELUDED Christians and
PSEUDO-Christians who hatefully seek to impose totally-unnnec-
essary immense hardship and misery upon tens of millions of women
by FORCING them to gestate to term against their will... and who
heartlessly seek to deny marriage (and many other rights) to homo-
sexuals over the utterly TRIVIAL characteristic of sexual orientation.
This has been just a quick reminder to anyone who confuses
the ignorant and hateful RRR cultists with REAL Christians, in hopes
of staving off persecution of the innocent (the real Christians) when
the inevitable backlash against the bigots (the RRR cultists) finally
takes place.
For more details, I invite you to see my re-post (now on your
servers in all five of these groups) entitled:
ACTUAL Christians and RRR Cultists: diametric *opposites*!
Don't let the latter DECEIVE you!
-- Craig Chilton < >
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
Every time a person supports bigotry in public, and presents NO
relevant FACTS to back his/her stance in behalf of a loathsome
agenda against individual liberties and human rights, that person
has -- ironically -- further **damaged** the cause he/she supports.
And every time a fair-minded and sensible egalitarian opposes
such a bigot, publicly, and **presents** relevant FACTS that are
damaging to the bigot's agenda, that TOO is an additional nail in
the coffin lid of the agenda, and a push of that casket CLOSER
to the Drain of Extinction -- its well-deserved ultimate destination.
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
(E-Mail address is valid when removing _ from it.)
--
Scott
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| User: "Scott Marquardt" |
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| Title: Re: REAL Christians Want NO Part of Loathsom& Hateful Agendas |
07 Dec 2004 12:09:45 AM |
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opined thusly on Dec 6:
87% of America's population is comprised of professing
Christians.
OF that number, 94% are sensible, fair-minded, and tlolerant
people who do absolutely NOTHING whatsoever to support the
loathsome agendas of being Anti-Choice with respect to abortion,
and seeking to DENY the right of marriage to same-sex couples.
Really? That comes to 82% of America being pro-choice and in favor of gay
marriage. Actually it's more than that, because we haven't added how many
of the remaining 13% of non-Christian Americans are pro-choice. If they
were pro-choice in the same proportion as the Christians, it'd be 94% of
Americans altogether, obviously. Let's go with that, provisionally; my
point will become clear enough regardless of what you do with that 13%.
Now -- your homework is to substantiate the numbers you're offering.
Indeed, your signature demands it. But meanwhile, let's look at abortion
polling (I'll leave it to someone else to look up polling on gay marriage).
For example, a Zogby poll not too long ago showed that 56% of Americans did
not favor the legality of 96% of all abortions.
http://www.zogby.com/Soundbites/ReadClips.dbm?ID=8087
Only 42% espoused pro-choice positions. When asked to self-identify, the
pro-life margin was 49% to 45%.
On the question of whether abortion should not be permitted after the
fetal heartbeat begins, 65.5% of 18-29 year-olds agreed, 46.9% strongly
so.
The human heart begins to beat 18-21 days after fertilization, before most
women realize they are pregnant.
Other groups of people also supported the pro-life perspective by wide
margins.
Hispanics support a pro-life position by a 78-21 percent margin, African
Americans backed the pro-life perspective 62-38.
Etc.
Gallup's numbers are just the opposite of Zogby's for self-identifying: 48%
pro-choice to 45% pro-life. A group founded by Faye Wattleton (former head
of Planned Parenthood) claims that 51% of all U.S. women oppose abortion in
all or most cases. So we're still waaaaaay short of your 94% figure.
I suggest you go figure. ;-)
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
Every time a person supports bigotry in public, and presents NO
relevant FACTS to back his/her stance in behalf of a loathsome
agenda against individual liberties and human rights, that person
has -- ironically -- further **damaged** the cause he/she supports.
And every time a fair-minded and sensible egalitarian opposes
such a bigot, publicly, and **presents** relevant FACTS that are
damaging to the bigot's agenda, that TOO is an additional nail in
the coffin lid of the agenda, and a push of that casket CLOSER
to the Drain of Extinction -- its well-deserved ultimate destination.
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
Well then, I'll expect some facts to be forthcoming in support of your
percentages. You wouldn't want to miss nailing my bigoted coffin shut,
right? Ya wanna be sure I "further damage" my cause, right?
--
Scott
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| User: "John Savard" |
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| Title: Re: REAL Christians Want NO Part of Loathsom& Hateful Agendas |
07 Dec 2004 10:39:39 AM |
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On Tue, 7 Dec 2004 00:09:45 -0600, Scott Marquardt
<wasREMOVEket5@hotmail.com> wrote, in part:
Really? That comes to 82% of America being pro-choice and in favor of gay
marriage.
He is just saying that only 6% of America's professing Christians are
actively engaged in political action to stop abortion or gay marriage.
*That* I could believe. That this _means_ only 6% of them are against
these things, though, which he then _concludes_ from his statistic -
that is an error in logic, not a phoney statistic.
John Savard
http://home.ecn.ab.ca/~jsavard/index.html
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| User: "Scott Marquardt" |
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| Title: Re: REAL Christians Want NO Part of Loathsom& Hateful Agendas |
07 Dec 2004 11:00:08 AM |
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John Savard opined thusly on Dec 7:
On Tue, 7 Dec 2004 00:09:45 -0600, Scott Marquardt
<wasREMOVEket5@hotmail.com> wrote, in part:
Really? That comes to 82% of America being pro-choice and in favor of gay
marriage.
He is just saying that only 6% of America's professing Christians are
actively engaged in political action to stop abortion or gay marriage.
*That* I could believe. That this _means_ only 6% of them are against
these things, though, which he then _concludes_ from his statistic -
that is an error in logic, not a phoney statistic.
You're suggesting that in citing the number who are not active in behalf of
these causes, he's implicitly intending to convey something about those who
are? He's being remarkably apophatic. ;-)
--
Scott
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| User: "Ninure Saunders" |
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| Title: Re: REAL Christians Want NO Part of Loathsom& Hateful Agendas |
28 Dec 2004 09:19:41 AM |
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In article <ep3Ad.38619$Ix2.9965@okepread02>, "Reasoned Insanity"
<mintclovers@yahoo.com> wrote:
-You have no idea what a Christian is Chilton. End of discussion.
No offense, but it would appear that you certainly have no idea what a
real Christian is yourself.
=========================================================================
(This article is based/was inspired on an article I read almost two years
ago in the newsgroups (usenet).)
Which Law should Christians follow?
It is suprising the number of Christians who do not seem to understand the
difference between the Commadments given to the nation of Israrel as part
of the Old Covenant, and the Commandments given to Christians, between the
Law (including the Levitical Code) given to a race/nation set apart, that
which Law Jesus preached, and taught, and asks that those believe in Him
live by.
Jesus said:
" If ye love me, keep my commandments. " (John 14:15 KJV)
What were these commandments that Jesus was referrring to? Was He, as a
large number of Fundamentalist Christians claim, telling His followers to
keep the Laws of the Old Testament except those involving aninal
sacrifice?
Not according to Paul!!
The Paul of the Bible summarizes God's law for mankind in one verse:
"For the whole law is fulfilled in one word, "You shall love your neighbor
as yourself." (Galatians 5:14 RSV)
This has become known as the "Royal Law".
If you really fulfil the royal law, according to the scripture, "You shall
love your neighbor as yourself," you do well. (James 2:8 RSV)
Jesus Himself went into more detail about what He wants us to do and not
to do. Although we are Òsaved by grace, not by worksÓ if we follow only
the Royal Law we demonstrate our love for what God through Jesus Christ as
done for us.
It is even better if we can also keep all of the Commandments of Jesus,
since is thew way in which we can accomplish two very important things:
1) Demonstrate to non-Christians that we truly are followeres of
Christ.
These Commandments of Jesus have a very special place of high priority
for all Christians because The Lord said, "If ye love Me, keep My
commandments." (John 14:15 KJV). (Emphasis mine)
2) Help bring about God's dominion/kingdom/realm , the same
dominion/kingdom/realm we pray for every time we say the Prayer That
Jesus Taught Us. "Your dominion/jingdom/realm come, Your will be on
earth as it is in heaven."
Jesus also gave the following instructions regarding His Commandments . . .
" Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of
the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to
observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you
alway, even unto the end of the world." (Matthew 28:19-20 KJV)
By these words, Jesus tells us that we are to obey all of the Commandments
He gave to His disciples, and that these Commandments apply until the end
of the world and GodÕs domion is fully realized.
Here, then, is a fairly complete list of all the Commandments which Jesus
taught His disciples (us) to observe, obey, and live by. I found these in
an article posted to usenet, where someone had taken the time to do a
study of all four Gospels. They are organized into two groups: the
Universal Moral Law, and the Other Commandments Of Jesus.
A summary of His commandments is given first, then a detailed explanation
of each one (where necessary), with Scriptural references.
It is always possible that a commandment or two may have been overlooked.
So in order to make sure for yourself, please buy or borrow a Bible with
the words of Jesus written in red. Then read the red words first, and see
for yourself! As Jesus said, "the words I speak to you, they are spirit
and they are life." (John 6:63b KJV)
Summary Of The Commandments of Jesus
I. The Universal Moral Law
A. The Law Of Love
"First, love God your Creator more than anything else. Then, love all
other people the same as you love yourself."
B. The Ten Commandments
1. "Do not put anything ahead of God your Creator."
2. "Do not make or worship idols."
3. "Do not take the name of God in vain."
4. "Take one day of complete rest each week, in honor of God."
5. "Honor your father and your mother."
6. "Do not commit murder."
7. "Do not commit adultery."
8. "Do not steal."
9. "Do not tell lies against anyone."
10. "Do not covet other people's
possessions."
C. The Golden Rule
"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."
II. The Other Commandments Of Jesus
1. "FORGIVE EVERYBODY OF ALL THEIR OFFENSES AGAINST YOU." (Forgive, and
be forgiven.)
2. "YOU MUST BE BORN AGAIN."
3. "ABIDE IN ME, AND LET ME ABIDE IN YOU."
4. "LET PEOPLE SEE YOUR GOOD WORKS." (Do not hide your light under a
basket.)
5. "END DISPUTES QUICKLY." (And take to your "problem to the person!!!
Not to everybody else!)
6. "WHATEVER CAUSES YOU TO SIN, GET RID OF IT."
7. "DO NOT SWEAR OATHS AT ALL."
8. "DO NOT RETURN OFFENSE FOR OFFENSE." (Turn the other cheek.)
9. "GIVE WHAT PEOPLE ASK OF YOU, AND GIVE MORE THAN IS REQUIRED." (Go
the extra mile.)
10. "LOVE YOUR ENEMIES AND THOSE WHO WORK AGAINST YOU."
11. "GIVE TO THE POOR TO PLEASE GOD, NOT TO GAIN APPROVAL FROM OTHER
PEOPLE."
12. "PRAY PRIVATELY AND SIMPLY, NOT TO IMPRESS OTHER PEOPLE."
13. "MAKE YOUR PRAYERS BE LIKE THE LORD'S PRAYER."
14. "WHEN YOU FAST, DO IT SECRETLY, NOT FOR SHOW."
15. "STORE UP YOUR TREASURES IN HEAVEN, NOT ON EARTH."
16. "DO NOT WORRY ABOUT YOUR MATERIAL NEEDS."
17. "DO NOT WORRY ABOUT THE FUTURE."
18. "MAKE GOD YOUR HIGHEST PRIORITY, AND HE WILL TAKE CARE OF ALL YOUR
NEEDS."
19. "DO NOT JUDGE OTHER PEOPLE." (Judge not, lest ye be judged.)
20. "DO NOT GIVE HOLY THINGS TO DOGS OR CAST YOUR PEARLS BEFORE SWINE."
21. "ASK GOD FOR WHATEVER YOU WANT TO HAVE." (Seek, and ye shall find.)
22. "FEED THE HUNGRY, CLOTHE THE NAKED, SHELTER THE HOMELESS, COMFORT
THOSE IN DISTRESS."
23. "FOLLOW THE NARROW PATH TO LIFE." (Enter by the narrow gate.)
24. "BEWARE OF FALSE PROPHETS."
25. "EXERCISE POWER OVER UNCLEAN SPIRITS."
26. "LOVE LITTLE CHILDREN, DO NOT DESPISE THEM."
27. "DO NOT TAKE THE TITLES 'MASTER' OR 'FATHER' FOR YOURSELF."
28. "RESOLVE DISPUTES IN AN ORDERLY WAY, LIKE THIS . . . "
29. "DO NOT OPPOSE OTHER BELIEVERS IN CHRIST WHO ARE NOT IN YOUR
GROUP." (stop denomination bashing!)
30. "HAVE TOTAL FAITH IN GOD FOR EVERYTHING."
31. "BE LIKE THE GOOD SAMARITAN." (Go, and do likewise.)
32. "LOVE OTHER PEOPLE AS I HAVE LOVED YOU"
33. "EAT BREAD AND DRINK WINE IN REMEMBRANCE OF ME."
34. "WASH ONE ANOTHER'S FEET."
35. "BE MERCIFUL."
36. "GO AND TEACH ALL NATIONS."
37. "KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS."
38. "BE PREPARED FOR YOUR MASTER TO RETURN."
Details Of The Commandments Of Jesus
The Universal Moral Law
This is the Universal Moral Law regarding your relationship with your
Creator and with all other people on Earth. This law now applies to all
people in all situations, regardless of whatever name they vall God by .
There are three parts to the Universal Moral Law . . .
1. The Law Of Love
2. The Ten Commandments
3. The Golden Rule
THE LAW OF LOVE
"First, love God your Creator more than anything else. Then, love all
other people the same as you love yourself."
(Based on Matthew 22:35-40, restated in Mark 12:28-31 and Luke 10:25-28.
The idea of all people as neighbors is explained in Luke 10:29-37)
"Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart,
and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great
commandment." (Matthew 22:37-38 KJV)
"And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets." (Matthew
22:39-40 KJV)
THE TEN COMMANDMENTS
Throughout the Old Testament, there are hundreds of "commandments,"
covering all parts of life. Collectively, these make up "the Law" of the
Old Covenant.
However, one group of commandments is very special, and it is known as
"the 10 Commandments." The Book of Exodus records that the Ten
Commandments were given directky to Moses by God, written io tablets
stone, and given to all people forever. The people of Israel placed The
Ten Commandments first, separate and distinct above all others.
Most of The Law of the Old Covenant no longer applies to Christians under
the New Covenant (See Hebrews 8:13, etc.) However, the Ten Commandments
still apply, because they were ratified by Jesus in Mark 10:19 and Luke
18:20 when He said, "You know the Commandments."
The Ten Commandments are given in two different places in the Bible, once
in Exodus 20:1-17 and once in Deuteronomy 5:6-22. The content is the
basically same in both places.
Here is the modern restatement of The Ten Commandments. After this is the
translation of the original text.
The Ten Commandments: Modern Restatement
1. "Do not put anything ahead of God your Creator."
2. "Do not make or worship idols."
3. "Do not take the name of God in vain."
4. "Take one day of complete rest each week, in honor of God."
5. "Honor your father and your mother."
6. "Do not commit murder."
7. "Do not commit adultery."
8. "Do not steal."
9. "Do not tell lies against anyone."
10. "Do not covet other people's possessions."
(Based on Exodus 20:1-17, restated in Deuteronomy 5:6-22. Jesus did not
specifically restate commandments 2, 3, 4 or 10, but it was understood
that He endorsed and followed all of the Ten Commandments.)
EXODUS 20:1-17 (KJV)
The Ten Commandments
1 And God spake all these words, saying,
2 I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt,
out of the house of bondage.
3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any
thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is
in the water under the earth
.
NOTE: "Graven images" here means idols, that is things which wee not such
the representations of the Deity, but the Deity Himself/Herself. It
certainly did not/does not mean all drawings or statues, as some have
mistakenly believed. If statues were prohibited, then the two angel
statues on the Ark Of The Covenant would have been prohibited. (See Exodus
25:18-20)
5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD
thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the
children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my
commandments.
7 Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD
will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.
8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou
shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy
manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is
within thy gates: 11
For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in
them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the
sabbath day, and hallowed it.
12 Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the
land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.
13 Thou shalt not kill.
NOTE: This clearly was a prohibition against private killing, not against
killing in war, in self defense, or as punishment for breaking the law.
God specifically authorized killing in war (see Deuteronomy 7:2, etc.) and
killing as punishment for certain crimes (see Deuteronomy 13:9, etc.
Today meany Christians and Jews agree that at the very least, this command
forbids murder, but there is a wide variety of opinion regarding war,
capitial punishment, and/or self defense.
14 Thou shalt not commit adultery.
15 Thou shalt not steal.
16 Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
17 Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy
neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor
his *****, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.
THE GOLDEN RULE
"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."
(Based on Matthew 7:12, restated in Luke 6:31)
" "Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do
ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets." (Matthew 7:12
KJV)
The Other Commandments Of Jesus
1. "FORGIVE EVERYBODY OF ALL THEIR OFFENSES AGAINST YOU." (Forgive, and be
forgiven.)
As you forgive other people, God will forgive you.
"And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors." (Matthew 6:12 KJV)
"And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that
your Father also which in heaven may forgive you your trespasses." "But if
ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive
your trespasses." (Mark 11:25-26 KJV)
2. "YOU MUST BE BORN AGAIN."
Simply put, accepting Christ as Savior, and being baptized is being born
again. It can also mean, that if you were baptized as a child, raised as a
Christian, but only when you became an adult did you make a choice to be a
Christian, well then you've been born again.
"Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again." (John 3:7 KJV)
3. "ABIDE IN ME, AND LET ME ABIDE IN YOU."
When you accept Jesus and the grace of God into your life, and you committ
to living you life in partnership with Christ, then Jesus abides in you.
"Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself,
except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me." (John
15:4 KJV)
4. "LET PEOPLE SEE YOUR GOOD WORKS." (Do not hide your light under a basket.)
"Let your light so shine before men, that they may see see your good
works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven." (Matthew 5:16 KJV; see
also Matthew 5:15)
5. "END DISPUTES QUICKLY."
This important!!! Failure to end "disputes quickly can not only get you in
trouble (legal or otherwise). Failure to end disputes, clear the air,
resolve problems can let feelings fester, making forgiveness and healing
impossible.
"Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that
thy brother hath ought against thee; Leave there thy gift before the
altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come
and offer thy gift.Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art in
the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the
judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into
prison." (Matthew 5:23-25 KJV)
6. "WHATEVER CAUSES YOU TO SIN, GET RID OF IT."
"And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee:
for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and
not that thy whole body should be cast into hell. "And if thy right hand
offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for
thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body
should be cast into hell." (Matthew 5:29-30 KJV)
7. "DO NOT SWEAR OATHS AT ALL."
"But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's
throne:
"Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it
is the city of the great King.
"Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one
hair white or black.
"But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more
than these cometh of evil."
(Matthew 5:34-37 KJV)
8. "DO NOT RETURN OFFENSE FOR OFFENSE." (Turn the other cheek.)
"Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for
a tooth: "But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall
smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also." (Matthew
5:38-39 KJV)
9. "GIVE WHAT PEOPLE ASK OF YOU, AND GIVE MORE THAN IS REQUIRED." (Go the
extra mile.)
"And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him
have thy cloak also. "And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go
with him twain. "Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would
borrow of thee turn not thou away." (Matthew 5:40-42 KJV)
10. "LOVE YOUR ENEMIES AND THOSE WHO WORK AGAINST YOU."
"But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good
to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and
persecute you;
"That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he
maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on
the just and on the unjust." (Matthew 5:43-45 KJV)
11. "GIVE TO THE POOR TO PLEASE GOD, NOT TO GAIN APPROVAL FROM OTHER PEOPLE."
"Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them:
otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven." (Matthew
6:1 KJV)
12. "PRAY PRIVATELY AND SIMPLY, NOT TO IMPRESS OTHER PEOPLE."
"And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they
love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets,
that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their
reward.
"But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast
shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which
seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.
"But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they
think that they shall be heard for their much speaking." (Matthew 6:5-7
KJV)
13. "MAKE YOUR PRAYERS BE LIKE THE LORD'S PRAYER."
" After this manner therefore pray ye:
Our Father which art in heaven,
Hallowed be thy name.
Thy kingdom come,
Thy will be done in earth,
As it is in heaven.
Give us this day our daily bread.
And forgive us our debts,
As we forgive our debtors.
And lead us not into temptation,
But deliver us from evil:
For thine is the kingdom,
And the power,
And the glory,
For ever.
Amen."
(Matthew 6:9-15 KJV)
Note that that the major elements of praye are covered in this model Jesus
left for us: Adoration, Confession. Thanksgiving, and Supplication!!!
14. "WHEN YOU FAST, DO IT SECRETLY, NOT FOR SHOW."
" Moreover when ye fast, be not, as the hypocrites, of a sad countenance:
for they disfigure their faces, that they may appear unto men to fast.
Verily I say unto you, They have their reward." (Matthew 6:16)
15. "STORE UP YOUR TREASURES IN HEAVEN, NOT ON EARTH."
"Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth
corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal:
"But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor
rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:
"For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also." (Matthew 6:19-21)
16. "DO NOT WORRY ABOUT YOUR MATERIAL NEEDS."
"Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall
eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on.
Is not the life more than meat, and the body than raiment?
"Behold the fowls of the air: for they sow not, neither do they reap, nor
gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feedeth them. Are ye not much
better than they?" (Matthew 6:25-26 KJV)
17. "DO NOT WORRY ABOUT THE FUTURE."
That may seem strange, but considering the level of stress that Americans
live under, this certainly makes sense.
This doesn't mean that one shouldn't budget, plan for a vacation.....but
simply that one should not be caught up in such things to the exclusion of
the NOW.
"Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take
thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil
thereof." (Matthew 6:34 KJV)
18. "MAKE GOD YOUR HIGHEST PRIORITY, AND HE WILL TAKE CARE OF ALL YOUR NEEDS."
" But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all
these things shall be added unto you." (Matthew 6:33 KJV)
19. "DO NOT JUDGE OTHER PEOPLE." (Judge not, lest ye be judged.)
"Judge not, that ye be not judged.
"For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what
measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again." (Matthew 7:1-2 KJV)
20. "DO NOT GIVE HOLY THINGS TO DOGS OR CAST YOUR PEARLS BEFORE SWINE."
This is an example of what this means to me:
There are some people who just won't hear the Good News that's God's love
is inclusive. No matter what you say, or how you live, they will insist on
being bigots. (Some say Fred Phelps may change someday for example)
Stop wasting your time on them!!!
"Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls
before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and
rend you." (Matthew 7:6 KJV)
21. "ASK GOD FOR WHATEVER YOU WANT TO HAVE." (Seek, and ye shall find.)
Keep in mind tho, that sometimes God says no. When its not in God's will,
when it will hurt you, when what you ask could harm someone else, God will
say no.
But...if you don't ask, you can't get ANY answer!!
"Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it
shall be opened unto you:" (Matthew 7:7 KJV)
22. "FEED THE HUNGRY, CLOTHE THE NAKED, SHELTER THE HOMELESS, COMFORT
THOSE IN DISTRESS."
"Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of
my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the
world:
"For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me
drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
"Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison,
and ye came unto me."
(Matthew 25:34-36 KJV)
23. "FOLLOW THE NARROW PATH TO LIFE." (Enter by the narrow gate.)
The wide gate is the gate you simply stumble through, when you are not
paying attention.
Accepting or engaging in homophobia, racism,classism, ageism, nationalism,
homophobia, and sexism is the way "the wide gate". Being apathetic is also
the way of the "wide gate"...
"Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the
way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
"Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto
life, and few there be that find it." (Matthew 7:13-14 KJV)
24. "BEWARE OF FALSE PROPHETS."
Can we say Exodus International? World Church of the Creator? Christian
Identity?
"Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but
inwardly they are ravening wolves." (Matthew 7:15 KJV)
25. "EXERCISE POWER OVER UNCLEAN SPIRITS."
Do something to comfort people, help people, get then the help they need....
"And when he had called unto him his twelve disciples, he gave them power
against unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of
sickness and all manner of disease." (Matthew 10:1 KJV)
"Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils:
freely ye have received, freely give." (Matthew 10:8 KJV)
26. "LOVE LITTLE CHILDREN, DO NOT DESPISE THEM."
"Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto
you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father
which is in heaven." (Matthew 18:10 KJV)
27. "DO NOT TAKE THE TITLES 'MASTER' OR 'FATHER' FOR YOURSELF."
"But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master,
even Christ; and all ye are brethren.
"And call no man your father upon the earth: for one
is your Father, which is in heaven.
"Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master,
even Christ.
"But he that is greatest among you shall be your
servant.
"And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased;
and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted."
(Matthew 23:8-12 KJV)
28. "RESOLVE DISPUTES IN AN ORDERLY WAY, LIKE THIS . . . "
"Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee,
go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone:
if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.
"But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one
or two more, that in the mouth of two or three
witnesses every word may be established.
"And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto
the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let
him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican."
(Matthew 18:15-17 KJV)
29. "DO NOT OPPOSE OTHER BELIEVERS IN CHRIST WHO ARE NOT IN YOUR GROUP."
......that is stop "denomination" bashing!!!
"And John answered him, saying, Master, we saw one casting out devils in
thy name, and he followeth not us: and we forbad him, because he followeth
not us.
"But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a
miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me.
"For he that is not against us is on our part." (Mark 9:38-40 KJV)
30. "HAVE TOTAL FAITH IN GOD FOR EVERYTHING."
"And Jesus answering saith unto them, Have faith in God.
"For verily I say unto you, That whosoever shall say unto this mountain,
Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; and shall not doubt in his
heart, but shall believe that those things which he saith shall come to
pass; he shall have whatsoever he saith.
"Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray,
believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them." (Mark 11:22-24 KJV)
31. "BE LIKE THE GOOD SAMARITAN." (Go, and do likewise.)
"Then Jesus said unto him, Go, and do thou likewise." (Luke 10:37b KJV)
This was in reference to the Parable Of The Good Samaritan, who helped and
took care of a man who had been attacked by robbers. (See Luke 10:30-35)
His hearers considered Samaritans worse than Gentiles, unlean and unworthy
of God's love.
32. "LOVE OTHER PEOPLE AS I HAVE LOVED YOU"
"This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you."
(John 15:12 KJV)
33. "EAT BREAD AND DRINK WINE IN REMEMBRANCE OF ME."
"And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them,
saying, This is my body which is given for you: do this in remembrance of
me. Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new
testament in my blood, which is shed for you." (Luke 22:19-20 KJV)
34. "WASH ONE ANOTHER'S FEET."
The full meaning of this dramatic command is for us to care for each
other's needs as if they were our own. He also wants us literally to wash
each other's feet.
"If I then, your Lord and Master, have washed your feet; ye also ought to
wash one another's feet." (John 13:14 KJV)
35. "BE MERCIFUL."
"Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful." (Luke 6:36
KJV) " . . . for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil." (Luke
6:35b KJV)
36. "GO AND TEACH ALL NATIONS."
"Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the
Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe
all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway,
even unto the end of the world." (Matthew 28:19-20 KJV)
37. "KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS."
"If you love me, keep my commandments." (John 14:15 KJV)
38. "BE PREPARED FOR YOUR MASTER TO RETURN."
"Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye
think not." (Luke 12:40 KJV)
The Law of Moses or the Law of Jesus?
To a very large extent, the choice is up to each and every person:
One can decide that's God's grace is too easy, that the way Jesus is
insufficent fo salvation, and try to live under the Law, which the Gospels
record even Jesus did not do.
OR
One can accept the fact that:
"For by grace are you saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it
is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any person should boast.....13 But
now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the
blood of Christ. 14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath
broken down the middle wall of partition between us; 15 Having abolished
in his flesh the enmity, even the Law of commandments contained in
ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross,
having slain the enmity thereby:" Ephesians 2:8-9, 13-16 KJV)
Ninure Saunders aka Rainbow Christian
The Lord is my Shepherd and He knows I'm Gay
http://Ninure-Saunders.tk
Take my polls
http://ninure.100megsfree5.com
My Yahoo Group
http://Ninure.tk
Universal Fellowship of Metropolitan Community Churches
http://www.MCCchurch.org
The Bible Site - help provide free scripture
http://www.thebiblesite.org
To send e-mail, remove nohate from address
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| User: "Christopher Benson-Manica" |
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| Title: Re: REAL Christians Want NO Part of Loathsom& Hateful Agendas |
06 Dec 2004 09:44:26 PM |
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In talk.abortion Craig Chilton -- Countdown to 1/20/09: 1,506 days to BYE-BYE Bushie! Forever!! <xanadu222_@mchsi.com> wrote:
87% of America's population is comprised of professing
Christians.
Wrong.
http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_prac2.htm
So much for your "irrefutable facts."
OF that number, 94% are sensible, fair-minded, and tlolerant
people who do absolutely NOTHING whatsoever to support the
loathsome agendas of being Anti-Choice with respect to abortion,
and seeking to DENY the right of marriage to same-sex couples.
So why did 75% of the residents of 11 states vote to ban gay marriage?
You need a better random statistic generator.
--
Christopher Benson-Manica | I *should* know what I'm talking about - if I
ataru(at)cyberspace.org | don't, I need to know. Flames welcome.
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| User: "Craig Chilton -- Countdown to 1/20/09: 1,506 days to BYE-BYE Bushie! Forever!!" |
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| Title: Re: REAL Christians Want NO Part of Loathsom& Hateful Agendas |
06 Dec 2004 11:09:04 PM |
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On Tue, 7 Dec 2004 03:44:26 +0000 (UTC),
Christopher Benson-Manica <ataru@cyberspace.org> wrote:
Craig Chilton <xanadu222_@mchsi.com> wrote:
87% of America's population is comprised of professing
Christians.
Wrong.
http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_prac2.htm
So much for your "irrefutable facts."
That wasn't a fact. That was a statistic. By perhaps the most
reliable polling organization in the world: Gallup. Just last year.
However -- I really hope that the data on the website you
just cited IS accurate. Very encouraging.
You see, there's absolutely nothing wrong with being
the sort of Christian that 94% **of** America's professed
Christians ARE: fair-minded, tolerant, UNobnoxious, and
NON-busybodyish/control-freakish.
But IF there were even **fewer** professed Christians, then
there probably would ALSO be a proportionate reduction in the
numbers of that OTHER 6% -- the control-freakish and hateful
deluded and pseudo one. The RRR cultists.
And we've already seen how WELL that has worked out in
Europe, where they have almost NONE of those hateful losers.
The RRR is primarily an *American* infestation.
OF that number, 94% are sensible, fair-minded, and tlolerant
people who do absolutely NOTHING whatsoever to support the
loathsome agendas of being Anti-Choice with respect to abortion,
and seeking to DENY the right of marriage to same-sex couples.
So why did 75% of the residents of 11 states vote to ban
gay marriage?
Stupidy and abject ignorance. Probably one of the best
exemplifications around that 75% of the population have IQs of
110 and less.
Since it would hard to imagine anything more HARMLESS
than the cessation of the denial of the right to marry to same-sex
couples. There is no way that any opposite-sex couple's marriage
would be adversely affected in the LEAST if a same-sex couple
gets married.
-- Craig Chilton <xanadu222_@mchsi.com>
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
Every time a person supports bigotry in public, and presents NO
relevant FACTS to back his/her stance in behalf of a loathsome
agenda against individual liberties and human rights, that person
has -- ironically -- further **damaged** the cause he/she supports.
And every time a fair-minded and sensible egalitarian opposes
such a bigot, publicly, and **presents** relevant FACTS that are
damaging to the bigot's agenda, that TOO is an additional nail in
the coffin lid of the agenda, and a push of that casket CLOSER
to the Drain of Extinction -- its well-deserved ultimate destination.
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
(E-Mail address is valid when removing _ from it.)
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| User: "Sneechres" |
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| Title: Re: REAL Christians Want NO Part of Loathsom& Hateful Agendas |
06 Dec 2004 11:37:58 PM |
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Craig Chilton -- Countdown to 1/20/09: 1,506 days to BYE-BYE Bushie!
Forever!! wrote:
On Tue, 7 Dec 2004 03:44:26 +0000 (UTC),
Christopher Benson-Manica <ataru@cyberspace.org> wrote:
Craig Chilton <xanadu222_@mchsi.com> wrote:
87% of America's population is comprised of professing
Christians.
Wrong.
http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_prac2.htm
So much for your "irrefutable facts."
That wasn't a fact. That was a statistic.
Same thing, dork.
By perhaps the most
reliable polling organization in the world: Gallup. Just last year.
What questions did they ask, and what does Christianity mean?
If most of the country professed that they believe their toaster is the
Savior of the world, would it be true?
And haven't you been over this before, and were corrected?
1414fd53.0402130000.4909d285@posting.google.com
1414fd53.0402211008.e0a0f67@posting.google.com
So why did 75% of the residents of 11 states vote to ban
gay marriage?
Stupidy and abject ignorance.
So how does that 75% square with the statistics on who is and is not
Christian??? It doesn't make sense to say that most Christians (which
are most people) are "fair-minded egalitarian" Christians, and then
that most people are stupid hateful bigots.
Which one is it?
--S
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| User: "Craig Chilton -- Countdown to 1/20/09: 1,505 days to BYE-BYE Bushie! Forever!!" |
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| Title: Re: REAL Christians Want NO Part of Loathsom& Hateful Agendas |
07 Dec 2004 12:40:16 AM |
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On 6 Dec 2004 21:37:58 -0800,
"Sneechres" <sneechres@yahoo.com> wrote:
Craig Chilton <xanadu222_@mchsi.com> wrote:
Christopher Benson-Manica <ataru@cyberspace.org> wrote:
Craig Chilton <xanadu222_@mchsi.com> wrote:
87% of America's population is comprised of professing
Christians.
Wrong.
http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_prac2.htm
So much for your "irrefutable facts."
That wasn't a fact. That was a statistic.
Same thing.
Nope. A statistic derived from a poll of a random sample is a
close **approximation** not a FACT. A **fact** would be the ACTUAL
number... which no one can determine with 100% accuracy.
However -- I really hope that the data on the website you
just cited IS accurate. Very encouraging.
You see, there's absolutely nothing wrong with being
the sort of Christian that 94% **of** America's professed
Christians ARE: fair-minded, tolerant, UNobnoxious, and
NON-busybodyish/control-freakish.
But IF there were even **fewer** professed Christians, then
there probably would ALSO be a proportionate reduction in the
numbers of that OTHER 6% -- the control-freakish and hateful
deluded and pseudo one. The RRR cultists.
And we've already seen how WELL that has worked out in
Europe, where they have almost NONE of those hateful losers.
The RRR is primarily an *American* infestation.
By perhaps the most reliable polling organization in the world:
Gallup. Just last year.
What questions did they ask, and what does Christianity mean?
Look it up. In an earlier post, I provided more details and URLs.
If most of the country professed that they believe their toaster
is the Savior of the world, would it be true?
I don't believe so. But I'd defend to the death their RIGHT to
profess and believe that, if they so chose.
And haven't you been over this before, and were corrected?
1414fd53.0402130000.4909d285@posting.google.com
1414fd53.0402211008.e0a0f67@posting.google.com
How do you derive the above? They look like e-mail addresses.
And how do you get them to take you anywhere? If I click on them,
the simply open an empty e-mail utility in which to COMPOSE a
message.
So why did 75% of the residents of 11 states vote to ban
gay marriage?
Stupidy and abject ignorance.
So how does that 75% square with the statistics on who is and is not
Christian??? It doesn't make sense to say that most Christians (which
are most people) are "fair-minded egalitarian" Christians, and then
that most people are stupid hateful bigots.
Which one is it?
Evidnece that an unfortunate number of people were CONNED
by the sort of lying propaganda that is spewed by the RRR cult.
Scare tactics! Not nearly enough people were out there throwing
those lies publicly back in the face of the bigoted cultists, with
THIS challenge:
"Just HOW would ANY opposite-sex couple's marriage be
affected in the SLIGHTEST if a same-sex couple happened
to get married?"
THAT question needs to be publicly put forth, over and over
again, for as long as it takes for folks to realize that it is utterly
STUPID to try to deny the right to marry to same-sex couples.
-- Craig Chilton <xanadu222_@mchsi.com>
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
Every time a person supports bigotry in public, and presents NO
relevant FACTS to back his/her stance in behalf of a loathsome
agenda against individual liberties and human rights, that person
has -- ironically -- further **damaged** the cause he/she supports.
And every time a fair-minded and sensible egalitarian opposes
such a bigot, publicly, and **presents** relevant FACTS that are
damaging to the bigot's agenda, that TOO is an additional nail in
the coffin lid of the agenda, and a push of that casket CLOSER
to the Drain of Extinction -- its well-deserved ultimate destination.
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
(E-Mail address is valid when removing _ from it.)
.
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| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: REAL Christians Want NO Part of Loathsom& Hateful Agendas |
07 Dec 2004 11:21:59 AM |
|
|
Craig Chilton -- Countdown to 1/20/09: 1,505 days to BYE-BYE Bushie!
Forever!! wrote:
On 6 Dec 2004 21:37:58 -0800,
"Sneechres" <sneechres@yahoo.com> wrote:
Craig Chilton <xanadu222_@mchsi.com> wrote:
Christopher Benson-Manica <ataru@cyberspace.org> wrote:
Craig Chilton <xanadu222_@mchsi.com> wrote:
87% of America's population is comprised of professing
Christians.
Wrong.
http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_prac2.htm
So much for your "irrefutable facts."
That wasn't a fact. That was a statistic.
Same thing.
Nope.
Yep. Such-and-such percentage of such and such is blah blah blah. If
statistics were not in fact factual, or derivatives of facts, we would
never be expected to believe them.
A statistic derived from a poll of a random sample is a
close **approximation** not a FACT.
Approximations are facts, too. It is a fact that my car accepts a
certain percentage of windshield wiper fluid gallon into the fluid
tank, etc, etc.
What questions did they ask, and what does Christianity mean?
Look it up.
YOU look it up, you posted it.
If most of the country professed that they believe their
toaster
is the Savior of the world, would it be true?
I don't believe so.
So then what are these people professing to?
But I'd defend to the death their RIGHT to
profess and believe that, if they so chose.
No, you wouldn't. You wouldn't defend them any more than you defend
Christians who think you're full of horse manure.
And haven't you been over this before, and were corrected?
1414fd53.0402130000.4909d285@posting.google.com
1414fd53.0402211008.e0a0f67@posting.google.com
How do you derive the above?
Because those discussions were about real Christianity.
They look like e-mail addresses.
Gee, Craig. Those are what are known as message IDs. Go go google
groups, plug them into the search, and viola!
And how do you get them to take you anywhere? If I click on them,
the simply open an empty e-mail utility in which to COMPOSE a
message.
You're an idiot.
So why did 75% of the residents of 11 states vote to ban
gay marriage?
Stupidy and abject ignorance.
So how does that 75% square with the statistics on who is and
is not
Christian??? It doesn't make sense to say that most Christians
(which
are most people) are "fair-minded egalitarian" Christians, and then
that most people are stupid hateful bigots.
Which one is it?
Evidnece that an unfortunate number of people were CONNED
by the sort of lying propaganda that is spewed by the RRR cult.
So you've decided that most people are not in fact "fair minded
Christians" but rather are just a bunch of idiots. OK.
Scare tactics! Not nearly enough people were out there throwing
those lies publicly back in the face of the bigoted cultists,
I wonder if that has to do with ability. Or that they were too busy
whoring themselves for campaign donations.
--S
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: REAL Christians Want NO Part of Loathsom& Hateful Agendas |
07 Dec 2004 11:22:17 AM |
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Craig Chilton -- Countdown to 1/20/09: 1,505 days to BYE-BYE Bushie!
Forever!! wrote:
On 6 Dec 2004 21:37:58 -0800,
"Sneechres" <sneechres@yahoo.com> wrote:
Craig Chilton <xanadu222_@mchsi.com> wrote:
Christopher Benson-Manica <ataru@cyberspace.org> wrote:
Craig Chilton <xanadu222_@mchsi.com> wrote:
87% of America's population is comprised of professing
Christians.
Wrong.
http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_prac2.htm
So much for your "irrefutable facts."
That wasn't a fact. That was a statistic.
Same thing.
Nope.
Yep. Such-and-such percentage of such and such is blah blah blah. If
statistics were not in fact factual, or derivatives of facts, we would
never be expected to believe them.
A statistic derived from a poll of a random sample is a
close **approximation** not a FACT.
Approximations are facts, too. It is a fact that my car accepts a
certain percentage of windshield wiper fluid gallon into the fluid
tank, etc, etc.
What questions did they ask, and what does Christianity mean?
Look it up.
YOU look it up, you posted it.
If most of the country professed that they believe their
toaster
is the Savior of the world, would it be true?
I don't believe so.
So then what are these people professing to?
But I'd defend to the death their RIGHT to
profess and believe that, if they so chose.
No, you wouldn't. You wouldn't defend them any more than you defend
Christians who think you're full of horse manure.
And haven't you been over this before, and were corrected?
1414fd53.0402130000.4909d285@posting.google.com
1414fd53.0402211008.e0a0f67@posting.google.com
How do you derive the above?
Because those discussions were about real Christianity.
They look like e-mail addresses.
Gee, Craig. Those are what are known as message IDs. Go go google
groups, plug them into the search, and viola!
And how do you get them to take you anywhere? If I click on them,
the simply open an empty e-mail utility in which to COMPOSE a
message.
You're an idiot.
So why did 75% of the residents of 11 states vote to ban
gay marriage?
Stupidy and abject ignorance.
So how does that 75% square with the statistics on who is and
is not
Christian??? It doesn't make sense to say that most Christians
(which
are most people) are "fair-minded egalitarian" Christians, and then
that most people are stupid hateful bigots.
Which one is it?
Evidnece that an unfortunate number of people were CONNED
by the sort of lying propaganda that is spewed by the RRR cult.
So you've decided that most people are not in fact "fair minded
Christians" but rather are just a bunch of idiots. OK.
Scare tactics! Not nearly enough people were out there throwing
those lies publicly back in the face of the bigoted cultists,
I wonder if that has to do with ability. Or that they were too busy
whoring themselves for campaign donations.
--S
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| User: "Christopher Benson-Manica" |
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| Title: Re: REAL Christians Want NO Part of Loathsom& Hateful Agendas |
07 Dec 2004 06:14:10 AM |
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In talk.abortion Craig Chilton -- Countdown to 1/20/09: 1,506 days to BYE-BYE Bushie! Forever!! <xanadu222_@mchsi.com> wrote:
That wasn't a fact. That was a statistic. By perhaps the most
reliable polling organization in the world: Gallup. Just last year.
According to this site, Gallup actually said the figure was 82.2%:
http://speakingoffaith.publicradio.org/programs/2004/09/02_godsofbusiness/galluppoll.shtml
Where's your cite?
Very encouraging.
Not discouraging, at least.
Stupidy and abject ignorance. Probably one of the best
exemplifications around that 75% of the population have IQs of
110 and less.
Let's do some math. If, say, 80% of Georgians are Christians, and 80%
of the people who voted on the marriage amendment here were Christians,
and the other 20% voted against the amendment, that means that 94% of
Christians here voted *for* the amendment.
In other words, your claim that 94% of Christians are non-bigots seems
unduly optimistic.
--
Christopher Benson-Manica | I *should* know what I'm talking about - if I
ataru(at)cyberspace.org | don't, I need to know. Flames welcome.
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| User: "Craig Chilton -- Countdown to 1/20/09: 1,486 days to BYE-BYE Bushie! Forever!!" |
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| Title: Re: REAL Christians Want NO Part of Loathsom& Hateful Agendas |
28 Dec 2004 08:09:06 PM |
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On Mon, 27 Dec 2004 20:20:51 -0600,
"Reasoned Insanity" <mintclovers@yahoo.com> wrote:
You have no idea what a Christian is Chilton. End of
discussion.
ROTFL!!!!!!
(***Typical*** RRR cult lemming. To them. any person who
isn't the kind of hateful ***** that a person has to be in order
to support the RRR's loathsome agendas -- which seek to deny
human rights and civil liberties to hundreds of millions of people --
just can't posssibly be a Christian.)
CLUE, loser: It's just as the Subject Line (less the typo) says:
REAL Christians Want NO Part of Loathsome Hateful Agendas.
94% of America's professing Christians are sensible, common-
sense, fair-minded, tolerant, and compassionate REAL Christians.
The hateful (and in most cases, very ignorant... as you have
proven yourself very recently to be*)... other 6% are the hateful
and sociopathic PSEUDO-Christians of the RRR cult.
That's the ACTUAL bottom line.
* (Thinking that LIVE zygotes are produced
when DEAD gametes merge. LOL!!!)
-- Craig Chilton <xanadu222_@mchsi.com>
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
Every time a person supports bigotry in public, and presents NO
relevant FACTS to back his/her stance in behalf of a loathsome
agenda against individual liberties and human rights, that person
has -- ironically -- further **damaged** the cause he/she supports.
And every time a fair-minded and sensible egalitarian opposes
such a bigot, publicly, and **presents** relevant FACTS that are
damaging to the bigot's agenda, that TOO is an additional nail in
the coffin lid of the agenda, and a push of that casket CLOSER
to the Drain of Extinction -- its well-deserved ultimate destination.
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
(E-Mail address is valid when removing _ from it.)
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: REAL Christians Want NO Part of Loathsom& Hateful Agendas |
13 Dec 2004 08:02:02 PM |
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On Tue, 07 Dec 2004 02:17:14 GMT, (Craig Chilton
-- Countdown to 1/20/09: 1,506 days to BYE-BYE Bushie! Forever!!)
wrote:
<< OF that number, 94% are sensible, fair-minded, and tlolerant people
who do absolutely NOTHING whatsoever to support the loathsome agendas
of being Anti-Choice with respect to abortion, and seeking to DENY the
right of marriage to same-sex couples. >>
I don't see many of these "fair-minded" Christians taking it to the
streets, in mass demonstrations to speak out against homophobia,
against our Repbulicrat gov't scapegoating sexual minorities. Prayers
without action are hollow.
Perhaps they will soon make themselves visible, in solidarity with gay
rights. But if it doesn't happen soon, I'd say you'll need to lower
your estimates considerably. Actually, I think you are way
overestimating Christians...and that the percentage of gay-supportive
ones is closer to 15%. And of that percentage, probably only 5% have
the guts to actually speak out for gays, especially via forms of civil
disobedience.
Guess they're afraid of being crucified.
--
Lavender-Velvet Revolution
http://www.gay-bible.org
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| User: "Craig Chilton -- Countdown to 1/20/09: 1,500 days to BYE-BYE Bushie! Forever!!" |
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| Title: Re: REAL Christians Want NO Part of Loathsom& Hateful Agendas |
13 Dec 2004 08:50:24 PM |
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On 13 Dec 2004 18:02:02 -0800,
<chief-thracian@gay-bible.org> wrote:
Craig Chilton <xanadu222_@mchsi.com> wrote:
<< OF that number, 94% are sensible, fair-minded, and tolerant
people who do absolutely NOTHING whatsoever to support the
loathsome agendas of being Anti-Choice with respect to abortion,
and seeking to DENY the right of marriage to same-sex couples. >>
I don't see many of these "fair-minded" Christians taking it to the
streets, in mass demonstrations to speak out against homophobia,
against our Repbulicrat gov't scapegoating sexual minorities. Prayers
without action are hollow.
I never said that they actively do the cause of human rights any
GOOD. Most of them don't. Most of the are **oblivious** to the
egalitarian cause! Which doesn't speak well from them, in that regard
-- but a least they are NOT bigots, and therefore are not lending any
assistance to the small percentage of pseudo-Christians who are
hateful bigots/RRR cultists.
When I was working with my fellow workers in Mississippi against
segregation 40+ years ago, we all were WELL aware that around
99.99% of Americans who either were preocupied with everything
else in their lives, or who supported us in their minds, were NOT
down there with us, fighting the good fight. But at least we knew
that **very few** people in the North were **opposed** to us, and
the work we were doing.
Perhaps they will soon make themselves visible, in solidarity
with gay rights.
Don't count on it. Very FEW egalitarians make the efforts to be
ACTIVELY so. We had the same problem with Civil Rights activism.
The vast of those who gave us moral support gave us ONLY that.
But if it doesn't happen soon, I'd say you'll need to lower
your estimates considerably.
Nope. They are there. But are either unaware of the impor-
tance of activism, or think the problem will ultimately solve itself.
(Forgetting, in the process, that freedom is NEVER free.)
Actually, I think you are way overestimating Christians...and
that the percentage of gay-supportive ones is closer to 15%.
I don't think so, considering what happened during the Wisconsin
Primary, earlier this year:
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
The 145,000,000 Americans who make
DOG MEAT of the Homophobes' Agenda!
Craig Chilton, Apr 11, 2004, at 11:32 am
TO: All who are sufficiently mentally-retarded, hateful,
and bone-ignorant enough to seek to DENY across-
the-board **equal** rights to ANY person based on
a matter so utterly TRIVIAL as how they choose to
have sex in *private* -- society is RAPIDLY growing
up, and in that maturation process, it is OUTGROWING
and REJECTING such mindless and loathsome agendas
as yours. As the article below PROVES, beyond a
shadow of a doubt.
Homohobia is for LOSERS.
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
On Jan. 28, 2004,
James Riske <james_ri...@mail15_dot_com> wrote:
Do prove that "straight allies almost certainly are in greater
numbers than the gays".
(To which I responded as follows) ---
ROTFL!!!!! That's one of the **easiest** things in the world to
do!
The *highest* percentage of gays that anyone claims, in the
population, is 10%. So just for fun (and to YOUR advantage, in this
case), let's assume that figure is true. HOWEVER... recent polls
have shown that the percentage of people in America who would
be supportive of same-sex civil unions (but not "marriage,'
semantically-speaking... and really, that's the ONLY difference) is
now very close to 50%. Any straight person who would not object
to same-sex civil unions are ALLIES of the gays. And if we used
only 40% (and there are more allies than that, as I just said), then
we'd have the following:
Gays 10% -- 29,000,000 Americans
Straight Allies 30% -- 87,000,000 Americans
___ __________________
TOTAL Gays & Allies 40% -- 116,000,000 Americans
Ratio: 3-1. Three times more straight allies than gays.
AT LEAST!
Using more realistic numbers; 5% of population is gay, and 45%
of the population favors the granting of the right of gays to have
same-sex civil unions, we have the following figures, which probably
approximate today's reality very closely:
Gays 5% -- 14,500,000 Americans
Straight Allies 45% -- 130,500,000 Americans
___ __________________
TOTAL Gays & Allies 50% -- 145,000,000 Americans
Ratio: 9-1. NINE times more straight allies than gays.
Using either set of figures, bigots who think that straight
allies of the GLTB Community are few in number, LOSE, big-time.
Three-to-one is the BEST they can do with such a claim, but that's
unrealistically low. Straight ALLIES of the gays vastly **outnumber**
the gays, themselves. By approximately NINE to one.
From:
http://www.abcnews.go.com/sections/us/Relationships/same_sex_marriage...
________________________________________________
Views of Same-Sex Marriage and Civil Unions:
"Marriage" -- Make legal: 41% Keep Illegal: 55%
"Civil Unions" -- Make legal: 46% Keep Illegal: 51%
________________________________________________
This reliable ABC News Poll PROVES the idiocy of homophobic
bigots when they claim that gays have relatively few straight allies.
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
And of that percentage, probably only 5% have the guts to
actually speak out for gays, especially via forms of civil
disobedience.
Try 1%. Tops!
Guess they're afraid of being crucified.
Those who are within congregations in which RRR cultists
have some clout may fear criticism. But I think in most cases,
it's simply the GREATEST enemy of liberty that is at fault:
Apathy.
-- Craig Chilton <xanadu222_@mchsi.com>
-- Craig Chilton <xanadu222_@mchsi.com>
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
Every time a person supports bigotry in public, and presents NO
relevant FACTS to back his/her stance in behalf of a loathsome
agenda against individual liberties and human rights, that person
has -- ironically -- further **damaged** the cause he/she supports.
And every time a fair-minded and sensible egalitarian opposes
such a bigot, publicly, and **presents** relevant FACTS that are
damaging to the bigot's agenda, that TOO is an additional nail in
the coffin lid of the agenda, and a push of that casket CLOSER
to the Drain of Extinction -- its well-deserved ultimate destination.
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
(E-Mail address is valid when removing _ from it.)
.
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| User: "nospam" |
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| Title: Re: REAL Christians Want NO Part of Loathsom& Hateful Agendas |
24 Dec 2004 06:22:13 AM |
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"Craig Chilton -- Countdown to 1/20/09: 1,500 days to BYE-BYE Bushie!
Forever!!" wrote:
On 13 Dec 2004 18:02:02 -0800,
<chief-thracian@gay-bible.org> wrote:
Craig Chilton <xanadu222_@mchsi.com> wrote:
<< OF that number, 94% are sensible, fair-minded, and tolerant
people who do absolutely NOTHING whatsoever to support the
loathsome agendas of being Anti-Choice with respect to abortion,
and seeking to DENY the right of marriage to same-sex couples. >>
I don't see many of these "fair-minded" Christians taking it to the
streets, in mass demonstrations to speak out against homophobia,
against our Repbulicrat gov't scapegoating sexual minorities. Prayers
without action are hollow.
I never said that they actively do the cause of human rights any
GOOD. Most of them don't. Most of the are **oblivious** to the
egalitarian cause! Which doesn't speak well from them, in that regard
-- but a least they are NOT bigots, and therefore are not lending any
assistance to the small percentage of pseudo-Christians who are
hateful bigots/RRR cultists.
Chilton loves anal intercourse: It's the only way he knows how to make
love to a woman.
When I was working with my fellow workers in Mississippi against
segregation 40+ years ago, we all were WELL aware that around
99.99% of Americans who either were preocupied with everything
else in their lives, or who supported us in their minds, were NOT
down there with us, fighting the good fight. But at least we knew
that **very few** people in the North were **opposed** to us, and
the work we were doing.
99.99? Why not 99.992 or 99.823465383282437?
You seem mighty sure of your figures. I guess that must mean you're
just a lying sack of *****, retard....
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| User: "Craig Chilton -- Countdown to 1/20/09: 1,491days to BYE-BYE Bushie! Forever!!" |
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| Title: Re: REAL Christians Want NO Part of Loathsom& Hateful Agendas |
24 Dec 2004 01:34:26 PM |
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On Sat, 25 Dec 2004 01:22:13 +1300,
Anonymous Coward and hateful Bigot, "nospam" wrote:
Craig Chilton <xanadu222_@mchsi.com> wrote:
<chief-thracian@gay-bible.org> wrote:
Craig Chilton <xanadu222_@mchsi.com> wrote:
<< OF that number, 94% are sensible, fair-minded, and tolerant
people who do absolutely NOTHING whatsoever to support the
loathsome agendas of being Anti-Choice with respect to abortion,
and seeking to DENY the right of marriage to same-sex couples. >>
I don't see many of these "fair-minded" Christians taking it to the
streets, in mass demonstrations to speak out against homophobia,
against our Repbulicrat gov't scapegoating sexual minorities. Prayers
without action are hollow.
I never said that they actively do the cause of human rights any
GOOD. Most of them don't. Most of the are **oblivious** to the
egalitarian cause! Which doesn't speak well from them, in that regard
-- but a least they are NOT bigots, and therefore are not lending any
assistance to the small percentage of pseudo-Christians who are
hateful bigots/RRR cultists.
Chilton loves anal intercourse: It's the only way he knows how
to make love to a woman.
ROTFL!!!!!! (I ***love*** when bigoted losers like this
anonymous coward stoop to making such inane comments,
in lieu of having ANY relevant facts on their side. Watching
them making such total asses of themselves is funnier than hell!
[[[ FENCE-SITTERS: You TOO can be as ignorant as he is.
just subscribe to the ludicrous peopaganda and agendas of
the mindless RRR cultists. (Fortunately, though, MOST of
you are FAR too intelligent to ever do that. It takes a
**profoundly** ignorant person to be like "nospam," here. ]]]
When I was working with my fellow workers in Mississippi against
segregation 40+ years ago, we all were WELL aware that around
99.99% of Americans who either were preocupied with everything
else in their lives, or who supported us in their minds, were NOT
down there with us, fighting the good fight. But at least we knew
that **very few** people in the North were **opposed** to us, and
the work we were doing.
99.99? Why not 99.992 or 99.823465383282437?
The concept of round numbers just SAILS right over your pointed
head, too. No surprise there.
-- Craig Chilton <xanadu222_@mchsi.com>
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
Every time a person supports bigotry in public, and presents NO
relevant FACTS to back his/her stance in behalf of a loathsome
agenda against individual liberties and human rights, that person
has -- ironically -- further **damaged** the cause he/she supports.
And every time a fair-minded and sensible egalitarian opposes
such a bigot, publicly, and **presents** relevant FACTS that are
damaging to the bigot's agenda, that TOO is an additional nail in
the coffin lid of the agenda, and a push of that casket CLOSER
to the Drain of Extinction -- its well-deserved ultimate destination.
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
(E-Mail address is valid when removing _ from it.)
.
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| User: "John Savard" |
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| Title: Re: REAL Christians Want NO Part of Loathsom& Hateful Agendas |
07 Dec 2004 10:37:03 AM |
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On Tue, 07 Dec 2004 02:17:14 GMT, (Craig Chilton --
Countdown to 1/20/09: 1,506 days to BYE-BYE Bushie! Forever!!) wrote,
in part:
87% of America's population is comprised of professing
Christians.
OF that number, 94% are sensible, fair-minded, and tlolerant
people who do absolutely NOTHING whatsoever to support the
loathsome agendas of being Anti-Choice with respect to abortion,
and seeking to DENY the right of marriage to same-sex couples.
I'll have to admit that the figure may be at least somewhat higher than
50%, even if 94% seems a bit high. Many of the people who voted for Bush
did so because they trusted his approach to the War on Terror, and, as
far as John Ashcroft was concerned, they held their noses.
However, I am highly confident that it is not yet 94% of America's
professing Christians who have already joined you in seeing the agendas
to which you refer as loathsome and hateful.
Homosexuality isn't just outlawed in the Book of Leviticus; it is
condemned in the New Testament as well. For that matter, it is also
condemned by other great world religions, and disparaged in many
cultures. While there is wide variablity among hunters and gatherers, a
condemnation of homosexuality is _universal_ among agricultural
civilizations; it is present in India and China as well as the West. (Of
course, data is not available on the Aztecs...)
This doesn't mean it was right to throw people in jail for being
practising homosexuals. But we did do that, in living memory, in the
1950s... and that was _after_ the First Amendment became part of the
Constitution.
Basically, the argument that laws against homosexuality are permitted in
a state which doesn't impose religious beliefs and observances goes like
this:
a) We have separate locker rooms and washrooms for men and women. This
is mainly because a naked woman, in a secluded spot with a strange man,
might be nervous that he would try to rape her.
b) Homosexual men feel sexual desire towards other men, unlike normal
men, who feel sexual desire towards women.
c) Thus, from (b) by analogy with (a), heterosexual men, by far in the
majority, might be given cause for nervousness if homosexual men were
among them in the cramped conditions of battle.
d) Thus, for the efficient operation of armies, it is necessary to
exclude homosexuals from military service.
e) Military service involves hazards to life and limb. Thus, it is
necessary to outlaw actions by which people might render themselves
unfit for military service.
Today, fortunately, we are realizing that this argument does not carry
enough weight to justify a savage discrimination against a minority that
does not choose its deepest feelings.
But the Bible also says "Thou shalt not steal", and that isn't
controversial. I do really think that far more than 6% of America's
professing Christians think that our society has taken leave of its
senses - and of common sense - in abandoning long-standing and
time-honored laws to placate a small minority of self-styled 'advanced
thinkers'.
When it comes to abortion, however, the issue is even more clear-cut.
Here, we aren't talking about equality to a minority group. Instead, in
the name of the equality of women, one age group (minus 0.75 to 0) of
children is being denied the most basic element of equality: legal
protection against deadly violence.
Only a woman and her doctor may legally abort, but that is enough to
mean fetuses don't have rights.
For all the rhetoric about equality that comes from 'advanced thinkers',
they're willing to declare open season on innocent children if they get
in their way.
That a fetus is what a baby was when he or she was younger is obvious
biological fact. If abortion doesn't belong in the same category as
infanticide, as a form of homicide, the reasons are *anything but
obvious*.
I'm certainly willing to hear any reasons for this, but so far, I keep
hearing the same old reasons that don't make sense.
- Laws never recognized the fetus as a full human being: well, they
didn't have to when sexual misdeeds could be outlawed.
- There is no absolute source for right and wrong, so it's whatever we
choose: if you decide to re-instate Negro slavery, I will not hesitate
to say it's wrong, and since those who say this would say the same if
someone else did it, they are hypocrites, or at least they haven't
thought this true.
- Even to save a human life, forcing someone to contribute money is not
allowed; forcing a woman to stay pregnant is like compulsory blood
donation. No; conscripting women to bear ex-frozen embryos is like that;
preventing them from killing the children with whom they are pregnant to
escape gestation is analogous to what the law requires of everyone.
Stopping in | |
