| Topic: |
Religions > Bible |
| User: |
"Andrew W" |
| Date: |
21 Feb 2004 12:49:21 AM |
| Object: |
Redemption |
Redemption.
Redeeming someone can only be done in the case of a financial debt. One
cannot redeem another from a crime because then the offender learns nothing
and continues committing crimes.
Redeem:
To pay off.
To set free; rescue or ransom.
If redeeming means to set free; rescue or ransom, then the god of the bible
is a cosmic gangster and not a benevolent creator.
Christians say that Jesus is a redeemer but the only way one can truly
redeem another is to vindicate them from the crime. Usually one redeems
themselves, but it can also be done by another if they have defensive
evidence or if they are a witness.
If Jesus vindicated mankind then he had to point out some reasons for God to
not destroy us.
If he was successful, which he reportedly was then that means that there
were circumstances about us that God didn't know which led him to soften his
approach towards us.
This of course would mean that God is not all knowing.
We must have been vindicated in the above manner because otherwise Jesus'
death would have been nothing more than a sacrifice which would make God
nothing more than a volcano god.
It is said that God sent Jesus to redeem us.
This implies that redeeming us was not Jesus' free choice.
God sent his son to redeem us after deciding to condemn us. This makes no
sense.
Where is the free will here?
How can one choose to redeem another if they are ordered to do it on a
suicide mission?
It is not right to send someone on a suicide mission and then force them to
make a decision to redeem their murderers. In that case it's not God's mercy
that we have been saved by but Jesus'.
That makes the God of the bible a heartless ogre, not a loving creator.
--
Andrew Werner.
Religion investigations.
Belief is a poor substitute for knowledge and faith is a poor substitute for
wisdom.
Religion Exposed!
http://members.optusnet.com.au/ajwerner/
.
|
|
| User: "Helen" |
|
| Title: Re: Redemption |
21 Feb 2004 10:01:22 AM |
|
|
"Andrew W" <nospaam_ajwerner@optushome.com.au> wrote in message
news:4036ff75$0$29129$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
Redemption.
Redeeming someone can only be done in the case of a financial debt.
One
cannot redeem another from a crime because then the offender learns
nothing
and continues committing crimes.
Redeem:
To pay off.
To set free; rescue or ransom.
INCOMPLETE definition will lead you to an erroneous conclusion.
Redemption means "to purchase BACK"; to REGAIN possession by payment of
a stipulated price;
repurchase.
Right of redemption statutorily in some jurisdictions means to redeem
property that has been forfeited because the mortgagor defaulted on the
mortgage payments; it can be exercised ONLY AFTER foreclosure and sale
of the property.
You are God's property. You have been purchased with a price. Your
free will may lead you to incur a sin debt. Only after your defatult in
payments (abiding by God's laws to include tithing, forsaking all
others, putting God first, loving others as yourself, not coveting, not
engaging in adultery, theft, murder, or other crimes, etc.) wherein your
rights are forfeited by your decision and you (by your actions have
taken yourself outside of the kingdom) now you want back in. At this
point REDEMPTION is possible. It is God buying (redeeming) back what
was already His (you) by giving His only son Jesus in exchange for your
sin.
If redeeming means to set free; rescue or ransom, then the god of the
bible
is a cosmic gangster and not a benevolent creator.
Hypotheticals will always lead to mischievous conclusions as man spends
his time in the futile exercise of ever seeking to justify his
determination to indulge his lusts. As the pursuit of lusts continues,
there is no end to the excuses sought to justify them. Interesting, to
note is why they are compelled to justify it? You can't get away from
God and His laws no matter where you go.
Christians say that Jesus is a redeemer but the only way one can truly
redeem another is to vindicate them from the crime. Usually one
redeems
themselves, but it can also be done by another if they have defensive
evidence or if they are a witness.
Since your initial definition is erroneous this is sensless.
"Christians" (if you're including me in this
then your premise is already disproven, for I've never said such as you
here accuse me of).
Belief is a poor substitute for knowledge and faith is a poor
substitute for
wisdom.
Religion Exposed!
Religion perhaps, but that is superfluous verbiage that intends to imply
something about God, and again you demonstrate but another exercise in
futility. Your energies could be better spent in learning some facts,
first.
Peace,
Helen
.
|
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| User: "Andrew W" |
|
| Title: Re: Redemption |
21 Feb 2004 05:52:37 PM |
|
|
"Helen" <@roman.gov.org> wrote in message
news:c17val017cm@enews1.newsguy.com...
"Andrew W" <nospaam_ajwerner@optushome.com.au> wrote in message
news:4036ff75$0$29129$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
Redemption.
Redeeming someone can only be done in the case of a financial debt.
One
cannot redeem another from a crime because then the offender learns
nothing
and continues committing crimes.
Redeem:
To pay off.
To set free; rescue or ransom.
INCOMPLETE definition will lead you to an erroneous conclusion.
Like the erroneous conclusions christians constantly come to based on
conjectured and embellished stories from the Middle East thousands of years
ago written in another language by, and for another race?
Redemption means "to purchase BACK"; to REGAIN possession by payment of
a stipulated price;
repurchase.
Why were we sold in the first place.
Such a careless god.
Right of redemption statutorily in some jurisdictions means to redeem
property that has been forfeited because the mortgagor defaulted on the
mortgage payments; it can be exercised ONLY AFTER foreclosure and sale
of the property.
You are God's property. You have been purchased with a price.
Just like a slave huh?
Coincidently slaves were purchased this way around the time the scriptures
were written.
I wonder where the scribes got their ideas from for creating their religion.
Your
free will may lead you to incur a sin debt. Only after your defatult in
payments (abiding by God's laws to include tithing, forsaking all
others, putting God first, loving others as yourself, not coveting, not
engaging in adultery, theft, murder, or other crimes, etc.) wherein your
rights are forfeited by your decision and you (by your actions have
taken yourself outside of the kingdom) now you want back in. At this
point REDEMPTION is possible. It is God buying (redeeming) back what
was already His (you) by giving His only son Jesus in exchange for your
sin.
Whew. Lucky I haven't done any of those bad things then.
If redeeming means to set free; rescue or ransom, then the god of the
bible
is a cosmic gangster and not a benevolent creator.
Hypotheticals will always lead to mischievous conclusions as man spends
his time in the futile exercise of ever seeking to justify his
determination to indulge his lusts. As the pursuit of lusts continues,
there is no end to the excuses sought to justify them. Interesting, to
note is why they are compelled to justify it? You can't get away from
God and His laws no matter where you go.
God's laws?
It's actually the church's laws pretending to be God's laws.
There is only one law and that's the law of love, but with all those other
duh based laws thrown in, christians keep forgetting the one law and that's
why they can never get their lives straightened out.
Christians say that Jesus is a redeemer but the only way one can truly
redeem another is to vindicate them from the crime. Usually one
redeems
themselves, but it can also be done by another if they have defensive
evidence or if they are a witness.
Since your initial definition is erroneous this is sensless.
How do you know it's not the bible's definition that's erroneous?
It was written in another language and no one has ever totally agreed on the
meaning of a great many of the words in it.
"Christians" (if you're including me in this
then your premise is already disproven, for I've never said such as you
here accuse me of).
Belief is a poor substitute for knowledge and faith is a poor
substitute for
wisdom.
Religion Exposed!
Religion perhaps, but that is superfluous verbiage that intends to imply
something about God, and again you demonstrate but another exercise in
futility.
Futility you say.
And what has christianity achieved in this world other than division,
exclusivism and conflict?
Your energies could be better spent in learning some facts,
first.
And where will I find those facts?
In the bible perhaps? The self witnessing book of stories?
Andrew.
Peace,
Helen
.
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| User: "Helen" |
|
| Title: Re: Redemption |
21 Feb 2004 10:17:08 AM |
|
|
"Helen" <@roman.gov.org> wrote in message
news:c17val017cm@enews1.newsguy.com...
"Andrew W" <nospaam_ajwerner@optushome.com.au> wrote in message
news:4036ff75$0$29129$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
Redemption.
Redeeming someone can only be done in the case of a financial debt.
One
cannot redeem another from a crime because then the offender learns
nothing
and continues committing crimes.
Redeem:
To pay off.
To set free; rescue or ransom.
INCOMPLETE definition will lead you to an erroneous conclusion.
Redemption means "to purchase BACK"; to REGAIN possession by payment
of
a stipulated price;
repurchase.
Belief is a poor substitute for knowledge and faith is a poor
substitute for
wisdom.
Religion Exposed!
Political language is designed to make lies sound truthful and murder
respectable, and to give the appearance of solidity to pure
wind. -George Orwell
Poly-ticks (many bloodsuckers) is what you see in the distorted
self-serving post by Andrew (and drew what?) W.
Helen
.
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| User: "Barry OGrady" |
|
| Title: Re: Redemption |
23 Feb 2004 06:29:32 AM |
|
|
On Sat, 21 Feb 2004 11:01:22 -0500, "Helen" <@roman.gov.org> wrote:
"Andrew W" <nospaam_ajwerner@optushome.com.au> wrote in message
news:4036ff75$0$29129$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
Redemption.
Redeeming someone can only be done in the case of a financial debt.
One
cannot redeem another from a crime because then the offender learns
nothing
and continues committing crimes.
Redeem:
To pay off.
To set free; rescue or ransom.
INCOMPLETE definition will lead you to an erroneous conclusion.
Redemption means "to purchase BACK"; to REGAIN possession by payment of
a stipulated price;
repurchase.
Right of redemption statutorily in some jurisdictions means to redeem
property that has been forfeited because the mortgagor defaulted on the
mortgage payments; it can be exercised ONLY AFTER foreclosure and sale
of the property.
You are God's property. You have been purchased with a price.
Did God fail to keep up the payments?
Your
free will may lead you to incur a sin debt. Only after your defatult in
payments (abiding by God's laws to include tithing, forsaking all
others, putting God first, loving others as yourself, not coveting, not
engaging in adultery, theft, murder, or other crimes, etc.) wherein your
rights are forfeited by your decision and you (by your actions have
taken yourself outside of the kingdom) now you want back in. At this
point REDEMPTION is possible. It is God buying (redeeming) back what
was already His (you) by giving His only son Jesus in exchange for your
sin.
Who is God buying us back from and who decided what the process had
to be?
If redeeming means to set free; rescue or ransom, then the god of the
bible
is a cosmic gangster and not a benevolent creator.
True.
Hypotheticals will always lead to mischievous conclusions as man spends
his time in the futile exercise of ever seeking to justify his
determination to indulge his lusts. As the pursuit of lusts continues,
there is no end to the excuses sought to justify them. Interesting, to
note is why they are compelled to justify it? You can't get away from
God and His laws no matter where you go.
Where did we get our lust from?
Christians say that Jesus is a redeemer but the only way one can truly
redeem another is to vindicate them from the crime. Usually one
redeems
themselves, but it can also be done by another if they have defensive
evidence or if they are a witness.
It is not possible for us to sin against God.
Since your initial definition is erroneous this is sensless.
"Christians" (if you're including me in this
then your premise is already disproven, for I've never said such as you
here accuse me of).
Belief is a poor substitute for knowledge and faith is a poor
substitute for wisdom.
Very true.
Religion Exposed!
Religion perhaps, but that is superfluous verbiage that intends to imply
something about God, and again you demonstrate but another exercise in
futility. Your energies could be better spent in learning some facts,
first.
You are without excuse.
Peace,
Helen
-Barry
========
Web page: http://members.optusnet.com.au/~barry.og
Atheist, radio scanner, LIPD information.
.
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| User: "rgeorge" |
|
| Title: Re: Redemption |
21 Feb 2004 08:09:07 PM |
|
|
"Andrew W" <nospaam_ajwerner@optushome.com.au> wrote in message
news:4036ff75$0$29129$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
Redemption.
Redeeming someone can only be done in the case of a financial debt. One
cannot redeem another from a crime because then the offender learns
nothing
and continues committing crimes.
Redeem:
To pay off.
To set free; rescue or ransom.
If redeeming means to set free; rescue or ransom, then the god of the
bible
is a cosmic gangster and not a benevolent creator.
Christians say that Jesus is a redeemer but the only way one can truly
redeem another is to vindicate them from the crime. Usually one redeems
themselves, but it can also be done by another if they have defensive
evidence or if they are a witness.
If Jesus vindicated mankind then he had to point out some reasons for God
to
not destroy us.
If he was successful, which he reportedly was then that means that there
were circumstances about us that God didn't know which led him to soften
his
approach towards us.
This of course would mean that God is not all knowing.
We must have been vindicated in the above manner because otherwise Jesus'
death would have been nothing more than a sacrifice which would make God
nothing more than a volcano god.
It is said that God sent Jesus to redeem us.
This implies that redeeming us was not Jesus' free choice.
God sent his son to redeem us after deciding to condemn us. This makes no
sense.
Where is the free will here?
How can one choose to redeem another if they are ordered to do it on a
suicide mission?
It is not right to send someone on a suicide mission and then force them
to
make a decision to redeem their murderers. In that case it's not God's
mercy
that we have been saved by but Jesus'.
That makes the God of the bible a heartless ogre, not a loving creator.
--
Andrew Werner.
Religion investigations.
Belief is a poor substitute for knowledge and faith is a poor substitute
for
wisdom.
Religion Exposed!
http://members.optusnet.com.au/ajwerner/
Stop, think, and examine some simple facts. When Jesus was on earth and
preached repentance, some heard him in belief and others despised his
teaching. To those who heard with belief and 'stuck with him in his trials'
Jesus promised great blessings in the Kingdom. (Luke 22:28-30, NW) And he
said that other sheep would in later times listen with faith and receive
blessings, also. But to those unbelieving Jews who encircled him and derided
his message demanding to know if he was the Christ, Jesus replied, "I told
you and yet you do not believe. . . . you do not believe, because you are
none of my sheep. My sheep listen to my voice, and I know them, and they
follow me. And I give them everlasting life, and they will by no means ever
be destroyed." (John 10:16-30, NW) Those unbelievers later tried to stone
Jesus. Promise of a ransom to everlasting life was held out to absolutely no
such persons, but only to the believers, the "sheep."
.
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| User: "Andrew W" |
|
| Title: Re: Redemption |
21 Feb 2004 09:28:32 PM |
|
|
"rgeorge" <reecegeorge@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:40380f42@news.comindico.com.au...
Stop, think, and examine some simple facts. When Jesus was on earth and
preached repentance, some heard him in belief and others despised his
teaching. To those who heard with belief and 'stuck with him in his
trials'
Jesus promised great blessings in the Kingdom.
Has anyone ever received these great blessings in the Kingdom to date?
I don't think so.
It's just like someone promising to send a cheque.
It's always next week, next week.
(Luke 22:28-30, NW) And he
said that other sheep would in later times listen with faith and receive
blessings, also.
Who wants to be a sheep.
Sheep do nothing all day.
The church leaders are the ones who want the people to be sheep so they can
rule over them without any trouble.
That's why they made up ideas like that and put them into the scriptures.
But to those unbelieving Jews who encircled him and derided
his message demanding to know if he was the Christ, Jesus replied, "I told
you and yet you do not believe. . . . you do not believe, because you are
none of my sheep. My sheep listen to my voice, and I know them, and they
follow me. And I give them everlasting life, and they will by no means
ever
be destroyed." (John 10:16-30, NW) Those unbelievers later tried to stone
Jesus. Promise of a ransom to everlasting life was held out to absolutely
no
such persons, but only to the believers, the "sheep."
.
|
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| User: "rgeorge" |
|
| Title: Re: Redemption |
22 Feb 2004 04:09:02 AM |
|
|
"Andrew W" <nospaam_ajwerner@optushome.com.au> wrote in message
news:403821e3$0$5224$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
"rgeorge" <reecegeorge@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:40380f42@news.comindico.com.au...
Stop, think, and examine some simple facts. When Jesus was on earth and
preached repentance, some heard him in belief and others despised his
teaching. To those who heard with belief and 'stuck with him in his
trials'
Jesus promised great blessings in the Kingdom.
Has anyone ever received these great blessings in the Kingdom to date?
I don't think so.
It's just like someone promising to send a cheque.
It's always next week, next week.
(Luke 22:28-30, NW) And he
said that other sheep would in later times listen with faith and receive
blessings, also.
Who wants to be a sheep.
Sheep do nothing all day.
The church leaders are the ones who want the people to be sheep so they
can
rule over them without any trouble.
That's why they made up ideas like that and put them into the scriptures.
But to those unbelieving Jews who encircled him and derided
his message demanding to know if he was the Christ, Jesus replied, "I
told
you and yet you do not believe. . . . you do not believe, because you
are
none of my sheep. My sheep listen to my voice, and I know them, and they
follow me. And I give them everlasting life, and they will by no means
ever
be destroyed." (John 10:16-30, NW) Those unbelievers later tried to
stone
Jesus. Promise of a ransom to everlasting life was held out to
absolutely
no
such persons, but only to the believers, the "sheep."
Those today who take God's Word and his requirements seriously are
appreciative of their blessings. This can be seen by the fact that their
lives are free from such "escape" expedients as materialism, alcoholism,
drug addiction, gambling and pornography. It is even more apparent from the
fact that they are such law-abiding and happy people.
No question about it. Regardless of your situation in life, whether your
circumstances are normal, or even as difficult as those of the paraplegic,
you have blessings that can be appreciated. You will appreciate them if you
do not take them for granted, if you do not let selfishness, greed or envy
blind you to them. And there is no better way to come to a full appreciation
of your blessings than by gaining a knowledge and understanding of God's
Word the Bible. I will be glad to help you to acquire that knowledge and
understanding.
.
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| User: "Andrew W" |
|
| Title: Re: Redemption |
22 Feb 2004 05:01:13 AM |
|
|
"rgeorge" <reecegeorge@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:40387fbd@news.comindico.com.au...
"Andrew W" <nospaam_ajwerner@optushome.com.au> wrote in message
news:403821e3$0$5224$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
"rgeorge" <reecegeorge@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:40380f42@news.comindico.com.au...
Has anyone ever received these great blessings in the Kingdom to date?
I don't think so.
It's just like someone promising to send a cheque.
It's always next week, next week.
(Luke 22:28-30, NW) And he
said that other sheep would in later times listen with faith and
receive
blessings, also.
Who wants to be a sheep.
Sheep do nothing all day.
The church leaders are the ones who want the people to be sheep so they
can
rule over them without any trouble.
That's why they made up ideas like that and put them into the
scriptures.
Those today who take God's Word and his requirements seriously are
appreciative of their blessings. This can be seen by the fact that their
lives are free from such "escape" expedients as materialism, alcoholism,
drug addiction, gambling and pornography. It is even more apparent from
the
fact that they are such law-abiding and happy people.
I'd like to some day see statistics on how many alcoholics are christian and
how many are atheists.
I've heard of christians who were alcoholics and also christians who were
very unhappy, and I've heard of atheists who were both sober and happy.
I think the statistics would probably be about even, if not in favour of
atheists.
The only thing christians really have going for them is hope, but
unfulfilled hope is false hope and there are a lot of angry christians out
there.
One has to have faith in one's own abilities and believe in themself in
order to achieve anything in life but christianity is intent on shattering
the self esteem of it's followers by labelling them all sinners and blaming
them for everything. That is not good.
The God of the bible blames us for everything.
What sort of father would be one who's problem solving strategy consisted of
blaming his children for everything that went wrong in the family thereby
making them feel miserably guilty their whole lives?
Not exactly a responsible approach is it?
A miserable person is useful to no one.
Andrew.
.
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| User: "rgeorge" |
|
| Title: Re: Redemption |
24 Feb 2004 02:58:50 PM |
|
|
"Andrew W" <nospaam_ajwerner@optushome.com.au> wrote in message
news:40388bf6$0$14898$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
"rgeorge" <reecegeorge@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:40387fbd@news.comindico.com.au...
"Andrew W" <nospaam_ajwerner@optushome.com.au> wrote in message
news:403821e3$0$5224$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
"rgeorge" <reecegeorge@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:40380f42@news.comindico.com.au...
Has anyone ever received these great blessings in the Kingdom to date?
I don't think so.
It's just like someone promising to send a cheque.
It's always next week, next week.
(Luke 22:28-30, NW) And he
said that other sheep would in later times listen with faith and
receive
blessings, also.
Who wants to be a sheep.
Sheep do nothing all day.
The church leaders are the ones who want the people to be sheep so
they
can
rule over them without any trouble.
That's why they made up ideas like that and put them into the
scriptures.
Those today who take God's Word and his requirements seriously are
appreciative of their blessings. This can be seen by the fact that their
lives are free from such "escape" expedients as materialism, alcoholism,
drug addiction, gambling and pornography. It is even more apparent from
the
fact that they are such law-abiding and happy people.
I'd like to some day see statistics on how many alcoholics are christian
and
how many are atheists.
I've heard of christians who were alcoholics and also christians who were
very unhappy, and I've heard of atheists who were both sober and happy.
I think the statistics would probably be about even, if not in favour of
atheists.
The only thing christians really have going for them is hope, but
unfulfilled hope is false hope and there are a lot of angry christians out
there.
One has to have faith in one's own abilities and believe in themself in
order to achieve anything in life but christianity is intent on shattering
the self esteem of it's followers by labelling them all sinners and
blaming
them for everything. That is not good.
The God of the bible blames us for everything.
What sort of father would be one who's problem solving strategy consisted
of
blaming his children for everything that went wrong in the family thereby
making them feel miserably guilty their whole lives?
Not exactly a responsible approach is it?
A miserable person is useful to no one.
Andrew.
It has been observed that, in a way, happiness is a great paradox. Though
the word "happiness" may bring to mind pleasant conditions, it actually can
grow in any soil, live under any conditions, defy any environment. Happiness
is not so much what we have as what we are. That is the reason why many who
live in luxury are not particularly happy, while some who have relatively
little and whose lives are rather simple do find happiness. Furthermore, you
may have met some hospitalized or handicapped persons who have a sunny
disposition, a cheerful, happy outlook. True, they are not pleased with
being ill or crippled and would like it to be otherwise. (Acts 3:1-8) Yet
they find reason for happiness in life.
.
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| User: "Barry OGrady" |
|
| Title: Re: Redemption |
25 Feb 2004 05:02:03 AM |
|
|
On Tue, 24 Feb 2004 20:58:50 GMT, "rgeorge" <reecegeorge@yahoo.com.au> wrote:
"Andrew W" <nospaam_ajwerner@optushome.com.au> wrote in message
news:40388bf6$0$14898$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
"rgeorge" <reecegeorge@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:40387fbd@news.comindico.com.au...
"Andrew W" <nospaam_ajwerner@optushome.com.au> wrote in message
news:403821e3$0$5224$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
"rgeorge" <reecegeorge@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:40380f42@news.comindico.com.au...
Has anyone ever received these great blessings in the Kingdom to date?
I don't think so.
It's just like someone promising to send a cheque.
It's always next week, next week.
(Luke 22:28-30, NW) And he
said that other sheep would in later times listen with faith and
receive
blessings, also.
Who wants to be a sheep.
Sheep do nothing all day.
The church leaders are the ones who want the people to be sheep so
they
can
rule over them without any trouble.
That's why they made up ideas like that and put them into the
scriptures.
Those today who take God's Word and his requirements seriously are
appreciative of their blessings. This can be seen by the fact that their
lives are free from such "escape" expedients as materialism, alcoholism,
drug addiction, gambling and pornography. It is even more apparent from
the
fact that they are such law-abiding and happy people.
I'd like to some day see statistics on how many alcoholics are christian
and
how many are atheists.
I've heard of christians who were alcoholics and also christians who were
very unhappy, and I've heard of atheists who were both sober and happy.
I think the statistics would probably be about even, if not in favour of
atheists.
The only thing christians really have going for them is hope, but
unfulfilled hope is false hope and there are a lot of angry christians out
there.
One has to have faith in one's own abilities and believe in themself in
order to achieve anything in life but christianity is intent on shattering
the self esteem of it's followers by labelling them all sinners and
blaming
them for everything. That is not good.
The God of the bible blames us for everything.
What sort of father would be one who's problem solving strategy consisted
of
blaming his children for everything that went wrong in the family thereby
making them feel miserably guilty their whole lives?
Not exactly a responsible approach is it?
A miserable person is useful to no one.
Andrew.
It has been observed that, in a way, happiness is a great paradox. Though
the word "happiness" may bring to mind pleasant conditions, it actually can
grow in any soil, live under any conditions, defy any environment. Happiness
is not so much what we have as what we are. That is the reason why many who
live in luxury are not particularly happy, while some who have relatively
little and whose lives are rather simple do find happiness. Furthermore, you
may have met some hospitalized or handicapped persons who have a sunny
disposition, a cheerful, happy outlook. True, they are not pleased with
being ill or crippled and would like it to be otherwise. (Acts 3:1-8) Yet
they find reason for happiness in life.
It's all to do with the chemical balance in the machine we call a brain.
Clinical depression can cause a person to be depressed under any circumstances.
Drugs can cause a person to be deliriously happy under the worst circumstances.
God has a lot to answer for.
-Barry
========
Web page: http://members.optusnet.com.au/~barry.og
Atheist, radio scanner, LIPD information.
.
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| User: "rgeorge" |
|
| Title: Re: Redemption |
25 Feb 2004 03:07:54 PM |
|
|
"Barry OGrady" <god_freee_jones@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:t40p30p4287b7c1p2vgett51m86mu58l9f@4ax.com...
On Tue, 24 Feb 2004 20:58:50 GMT, "rgeorge" <reecegeorge@yahoo.com.au>
wrote:
"Andrew W" <nospaam_ajwerner@optushome.com.au> wrote in message
news:40388bf6$0$14898$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
"rgeorge" <reecegeorge@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:40387fbd@news.comindico.com.au...
"Andrew W" <nospaam_ajwerner@optushome.com.au> wrote in message
news:403821e3$0$5224$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
"rgeorge" <reecegeorge@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:40380f42@news.comindico.com.au...
Has anyone ever received these great blessings in the Kingdom to
date?
I don't think so.
It's just like someone promising to send a cheque.
It's always next week, next week.
(Luke 22:28-30, NW) And he
said that other sheep would in later times listen with faith and
receive
blessings, also.
Who wants to be a sheep.
Sheep do nothing all day.
The church leaders are the ones who want the people to be sheep so
they
can
rule over them without any trouble.
That's why they made up ideas like that and put them into the
scriptures.
Those today who take God's Word and his requirements seriously are
appreciative of their blessings. This can be seen by the fact that
their
lives are free from such "escape" expedients as materialism,
alcoholism,
drug addiction, gambling and pornography. It is even more apparent
from
the
fact that they are such law-abiding and happy people.
I'd like to some day see statistics on how many alcoholics are
christian
and
how many are atheists.
I've heard of christians who were alcoholics and also christians who
were
very unhappy, and I've heard of atheists who were both sober and happy.
I think the statistics would probably be about even, if not in favour
of
atheists.
The only thing christians really have going for them is hope, but
unfulfilled hope is false hope and there are a lot of angry christians
out
there.
One has to have faith in one's own abilities and believe in themself in
order to achieve anything in life but christianity is intent on
shattering
the self esteem of it's followers by labelling them all sinners and
blaming
them for everything. That is not good.
The God of the bible blames us for everything.
What sort of father would be one who's problem solving strategy
consisted
of
blaming his children for everything that went wrong in the family
thereby
making them feel miserably guilty their whole lives?
Not exactly a responsible approach is it?
A miserable person is useful to no one.
Andrew.
It has been observed that, in a way, happiness is a great paradox. Though
the word "happiness" may bring to mind pleasant conditions, it actually
can
grow in any soil, live under any conditions, defy any environment.
Happiness
is not so much what we have as what we are. That is the reason why many
who
live in luxury are not particularly happy, while some who have relatively
little and whose lives are rather simple do find happiness. Furthermore,
you
may have met some hospitalized or handicapped persons who have a sunny
disposition, a cheerful, happy outlook. True, they are not pleased with
being ill or crippled and would like it to be otherwise. (Acts 3:1-8) Yet
they find reason for happiness in life.
It's all to do with the chemical balance in the machine we call a brain.
Clinical depression can cause a person to be depressed under any
circumstances.
Drugs can cause a person to be deliriously happy under the worst
circumstances.
God has a lot to answer for.
-Barry
========
Web page: http://members.optusnet.com.au/~barry.og
Atheist, radio scanner, LIPD information.
Jesus Christ stressed the individual worth of each of his disciples by
saying: "Five sparrows sell for two coins of small value, do they not? Yet
not one of them goes forgotten before God. But even the hairs of your heads
are all numbered. Have no fear; you are worth more than many sparrows."
(Luke 12:6, 7) We are of such worth to God that he takes note of even the
minutest detail about us. He knows things about us that we do not know
ourselves because he deeply cares about each of us.-1 Peter 5:7.
The Bible speaks of a time in the near future when God "will wipe out every
tear from [mankind's] eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning
nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away."
(Revelation 21:3, 4) God's Kingdom will then bring about the complete
physical and mental healing of all its earthly subjects.-Psalm 37:10, 11,
29.
With 'no more death, mourning, or outcry,' gone will be the sense of tragic
losses and daily emotional strains that now lead to depression. Since
loving-kindness, trueness, and peace will permeate dealings that people have
with one another, bitter conflicts will cease. (Psalm 85:10, 11) As the
effects of sin are removed, what great joy to be able finally to measure up
perfectly to God's standard of righteousness and have full peace within!
.
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| User: "TehGhodTrole" |
|
| Title: Re: Redemption |
22 Feb 2004 05:09:06 AM |
|
|
Andrew W wrote:
I think the statistics would probably be about even, if not in favour
of atheists.
BZZZT! As borne out by the statement that follows your assertion that "I
[you] think", the claim to thinking presupposes the presence of a
functioning brain, which you lack.
--
TehGhodTrole: Trolling, for God's sake.
Your Free Insult: Jesus loves you.
.
|
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|
| User: "Andrew W" |
|
| Title: Re: Redemption |
22 Feb 2004 06:14:36 AM |
|
|
"TehGhodTrole" <nospam@rainx.cjb.net> wrote in message
news:ityJVAY5GCWG4C8CA5BEE712C8FCImvHQaH02DCU@kadaitcha.cx...
Andrew W wrote:
I think the statistics would probably be about even, if not in favour
of atheists.
BZZZT! As borne out by the statement that follows your assertion that "I
[you] think", the claim to thinking presupposes the presence of a
functioning brain, which you lack.
Firstly Mr Trole your sentence makes little or no sense.
Secondly, harping on about the depravity of mankind does not exactly show a
healthy brain function on your part.
Thirdly you should get that dumb buzzer fixed.
Let us hope you never become a game show host.
Andrew.
.
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| User: "TehGhodTrole" |
|
| Title: Re: Redemption |
22 Feb 2004 09:13:50 AM |
|
|
Andrew W wrote:
"TehGhodTrole" <nospam@rainx.cjb.net> wrote in message
news:ityJVAY5GCWG4C8CA5BEE712C8FCImvHQaH02DCU@kadaitcha.cx...
Andrew W wrote:
I think the statistics would probably be about even, if not in
favour of atheists.
BZZZT! As borne out by the statement that follows your assertion
that "I [you] think", the claim to thinking presupposes the presence
of a functioning brain, which you lack.
Firstly Mr Trole your sentence makes little or no sense.
Since the statement asserts that you lack a brain with which to undertake
the act of thinking, it is no wonder at all that you fail to understand it.
[snip]
The rest was snipped, unread, on the grounds that you have shown time and
time again that you do not possess the equipment required to undertake the
onerous task of thought. The underlying assumption is then that whatever it
was that you typed, it was necessarily nonsensical trash.
--
TehGhodTrole: Trolling, for God's sake.
Your Free Insult: Jesus loves you.
.
|
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| User: "Andrew W" |
|
| Title: Re: Redemption |
22 Feb 2004 02:58:18 PM |
|
|
"TehGhodTrole" <nospam@rainx.cjb.net> wrote in message
news:JIHiIiFdvQDB47867DF71ACF3FDF0ArgHl82oLmk@kadaitcha.cx...
Andrew W wrote:
"TehGhodTrole" <nospam@rainx.cjb.net> wrote in message
news:ityJVAY5GCWG4C8CA5BEE712C8FCImvHQaH02DCU@kadaitcha.cx...
Andrew W wrote:
I think the statistics would probably be about even, if not in
favour of atheists.
BZZZT! As borne out by the statement that follows your assertion
that "I [you] think", the claim to thinking presupposes the presence
of a functioning brain, which you lack.
Firstly Mr Trole your sentence makes little or no sense.
Since the statement asserts that you lack a brain with which to undertake
the act of thinking, it is no wonder at all that you fail to understand
it.
You make a judgement of your opponents intelligence based entirely on a few
words exchanged on a newsgroup. Then you use that to hurl insults so you
don't have to enter into a debate.
You also use courtroom jargon to make yourself look intelligent and a buzzer
as a shield to hide behind.
How lame and petty.
Are you by any chance under the impression that a non christian cannot
possibly have intelligence?
Because if you are then you can be classified a bigot.
[snip]
The rest was snipped, unread, on the grounds that you have shown time and
time again that you do not possess the equipment required to undertake the
onerous task of thought.
The underlying assumption is then that whatever it
was that you typed, it was necessarily nonsensical trash.
No, it was just that you didn't like what I had to say because you have
become smug within your religious cult and you want to avoid debating with
someone you consider to be classed below you.
I think you really might be a bigot.
.
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| User: "TehGhodTrole" |
|
| Title: Re: Redemption |
22 Feb 2004 04:17:59 PM |
|
|
Andrew W wrote:
You make a judgement of your opponents intelligence based entirely on
a few words exchanged on a newsgroup. Then you
Life's a *****, eh.
[snip]
--
TehGhodTrole: Trolling, for God's sake.
Your Free Insult: Jesus loves you.
.
|
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| User: "Andrew W" |
|
| Title: Re: Redemption |
23 Feb 2004 02:05:05 PM |
|
|
"TehGhodTrole" <nospam@rainx.cjb.net> wrote in message
news:yMCFxHU784Ap92713E9D1E376A34jz4bJRaqGBb3@kadaitcha.cx...
Andrew W wrote:
You make a judgement of your opponents intelligence based entirely on
a few words exchanged on a newsgroup. Then you
Life's a *****, eh.
That's what I used to say the whole time when I was a christian.
--
Andrew Werner.
The Lord gives us two wonderful and loving choices for our future; to come
to the waters freely or be drowned in the lake of fire. Which loving gift
will you choose?
Religion Exposed!
http://members.optusnet.com.au/ajwerner/
[snip]
--
TehGhodTrole: Trolling, for God's sake.
Your Free Insult: Jesus loves you.
Your Free Devine Insult: Jesus is my only son.
Bonus Insult: Thou unbelieving, ungrateful, loathsome, abhorrent,
contemptible, wretched, repulsive, detestable, abominable heathen! From
heaven I spit on Thee! Tpferrr!!
.
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| User: "maf1029 " |
|
| Title: Re: Redemption |
22 Feb 2004 05:24:37 AM |
|
|
On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 10:09:02 GMT, "rgeorge" <reecegeorge@yahoo.com.au>
wrote:
Those today who take God's Word and his requirements seriously are
appreciative of their blessings.
As are those who accept blessings from Vishnu, Allah, and Thor.
And just for fun, let's add in those who are law-abiding, concerned
with the environment, helpful to their fellow human being, and kind to
companion animals..... for no other reason than it is the right thing
to do.
This can be seen by the fact that their
lives are free from such "escape" expedients as materialism, alcoholism,
drug addiction, gambling and pornography. It is even more apparent from the
fact that they are such law-abiding and happy people.
Christians are not the only people who are law-abiding and happy.
Christians do not own the monopoly on happiness.
No question about it. Regardless of your situation in life, whether your
circumstances are normal, or even as difficult as those of the paraplegic,
you have blessings that can be appreciated. You will appreciate them if you
do not take them for granted, if you do not let selfishness, greed or envy
blind you to them.
Or blatant bigotry masquerading as religious fervor, M.
And there is no better way to come to a full appreciation
of your blessings than by gaining a knowledge and understanding of God's
Word the Bible.
In your opinion. Others have found better ways.
I will be glad to help you to acquire that knowledge and
understanding.
I'm going to take a pass on your offer, for personal reasons.
.
|
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| User: "rgeorge" |
|
| Title: Re: Redemption |
24 Feb 2004 03:00:58 PM |
|
|
"maf1029" < mark@johnsonnot.thankzeus> wrote in message
news:l74h30t0hu7316uindiabagd4hmn0p281m@4ax.com...
On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 10:09:02 GMT, "rgeorge" <reecegeorge@yahoo.com.au>
wrote:
Those today who take God's Word and his requirements seriously are
appreciative of their blessings.
As are those who accept blessings from Vishnu, Allah, and Thor.
And just for fun, let's add in those who are law-abiding, concerned
with the environment, helpful to their fellow human being, and kind to
companion animals..... for no other reason than it is the right thing
to do.
This can be seen by the fact that their
lives are free from such "escape" expedients as materialism, alcoholism,
drug addiction, gambling and pornography. It is even more apparent from
the
fact that they are such law-abiding and happy people.
Christians are not the only people who are law-abiding and happy.
Christians do not own the monopoly on happiness.
No question about it. Regardless of your situation in life, whether your
circumstances are normal, or even as difficult as those of the
paraplegic,
you have blessings that can be appreciated. You will appreciate them if
you
do not take them for granted, if you do not let selfishness, greed or
envy
blind you to them.
Or blatant bigotry masquerading as religious fervor, M.
And there is no better way to come to a full appreciation
of your blessings than by gaining a knowledge and understanding of God's
Word the Bible.
In your opinion. Others have found better ways.
I will be glad to help you to acquire that knowledge and
understanding.
I'm going to take a pass on your offer, for personal reasons.
The evidence of long history and the experience of millions of persons alive
right now prove that we cannot turn our backs on moral standards or
principles and yet be lastingly happy. Those who have 'come to be past all
moral sense, giving themselves over to loose conduct to work uncleanness of
every sort with greediness' are not the happy ones. (Eph. 4:17-19; Rom.
13:13) Such a course, either immediately or later, brings additional
sorrows, throwing up barriers on the road to happiness. Can you think of
actual cases corroborating that? On the other hand, doing things God's
way-in accord with his moral standards-reduces life's problems and so clears
away roadblocks to our reaching happiness. Yet simply avoiding problems is
not in itself a guarantee of our being happy. More is needed. We can be sure
of that, for our Maker tells us so.
.
|
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| User: "Barry OGrady" |
|
| Title: Re: Redemption |
25 Feb 2004 05:02:18 AM |
|
|
On Tue, 24 Feb 2004 21:00:58 GMT, "rgeorge" <reecegeorge@yahoo.com.au> wrote:
"maf1029" < mark@johnsonnot.thankzeus> wrote in message
news:l74h30t0hu7316uindiabagd4hmn0p281m@4ax.com...
On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 10:09:02 GMT, "rgeorge" <reecegeorge@yahoo.com.au>
wrote:
Those today who take God's Word and his requirements seriously are
appreciative of their blessings.
As are those who accept blessings from Vishnu, Allah, and Thor.
And just for fun, let's add in those who are law-abiding, concerned
with the environment, helpful to their fellow human being, and kind to
companion animals..... for no other reason than it is the right thing
to do.
This can be seen by the fact that their
lives are free from such "escape" expedients as materialism, alcoholism,
drug addiction, gambling and pornography. It is even more apparent from
the
fact that they are such law-abiding and happy people.
Christians are not the only people who are law-abiding and happy.
Christians do not own the monopoly on happiness.
No question about it. Regardless of your situation in life, whether your
circumstances are normal, or even as difficult as those of the
paraplegic,
you have blessings that can be appreciated. You will appreciate them if
you
do not take them for granted, if you do not let selfishness, greed or
envy
blind you to them.
Or blatant bigotry masquerading as religious fervor, M.
And there is no better way to come to a full appreciation
of your blessings than by gaining a knowledge and understanding of God's
Word the Bible.
In your opinion. Others have found better ways.
I will be glad to help you to acquire that knowledge and
understanding.
I'm going to take a pass on your offer, for personal reasons.
The evidence of long history and the experience of millions of persons alive
right now prove that we cannot turn our backs on moral standards or
principles and yet be lastingly happy. Those who have 'come to be past all
moral sense, giving themselves over to loose conduct to work uncleanness of
every sort with greediness' are not the happy ones. (Eph. 4:17-19; Rom.
13:13)
Do you get all your ideas from fictional books?
Such a course, either immediately or later, brings additional
sorrows, throwing up barriers on the road to happiness. Can you think of
actual cases corroborating that? On the other hand, doing things God's
way-in accord with his moral standards-reduces life's problems and so clears
away roadblocks to our reaching happiness.
As long as you can stay out of the hands of the authorities.
Most countries don't take kindly to people committing genocide and murder
on a large scale as God commands and demonstrates to us.
Yet simply avoiding problems is
not in itself a guarantee of our being happy. More is needed.
Sure. We need the right sort of drugs to get our brain chemistry right.
We can be sure of that, for our Maker tells us so.
For some reason our maker gave us a brain that often malfunctions.
-Barry
========
Web page: http://members.optusnet.com.au/~barry.og
Atheist, radio scanner, LIPD information.
.
|
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| User: "Eurika" |
|
| Title: Re: Redemption |
29 Feb 2004 12:17:46 AM |
|
|
"Barry OGrady" <god_freee_jones@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:c50p30p5mvp7oop4tma3i98stoarvv63u2@4ax.com...
On Tue, 24 Feb 2004 21:00:58 GMT, "rgeorge" <reecegeorge@yahoo.com.au>
wrote:
"maf1029" < mark@johnsonnot.thankzeus> wrote in message
news:l74h30t0hu7316uindiabagd4hmn0p281m@4ax.com...
On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 10:09:02 GMT, "rgeorge"
<reecegeorge@yahoo.com.au>
For some reason our maker gave us a brain that often malfunctions.
-Barry
Due to man's greed, power struggle, air, water, food pollution and
unfathomable mental poisons
that enter through the eyes and ears. These orifices apparently
insufficient for some.
And having become enslaved to pop-psycho-babble that makes him BELIEVE
he must be right,
without regard to the consequence. Having accepted Freud as a scientist
rather than a literary
writer with wild fantasies based on drug induced observations of
abnormal behavior. All the
Freud croc applied to normal humans has contritribute to the poison of
the society...all because
it was born in a period called "Victorian" and its novelty somehow
offered justification for
worshipping lusts.
.
|
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| User: "Barry OGrady" |
|
| Title: Re: Redemption |
01 Mar 2004 06:55:05 AM |
|
|
On Sun, 29 Feb 2004 01:17:46 -0500, "Eurika" <@""berlin.de> wrote:
"Barry OGrady" <god_freee_jones@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:c50p30p5mvp7oop4tma3i98stoarvv63u2@4ax.com...
On Tue, 24 Feb 2004 21:00:58 GMT, "rgeorge" <reecegeorge@yahoo.com.au>
wrote:
"maf1029" < mark@johnsonnot.thankzeus> wrote in message
news:l74h30t0hu7316uindiabagd4hmn0p281m@4ax.com...
On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 10:09:02 GMT, "rgeorge"
<reecegeorge@yahoo.com.au>
For some reason our maker gave us a brain that often malfunctions.
-Barry
Due to man's greed, power struggle, air, water, food pollution and
unfathomable mental poisons
that enter through the eyes and ears. These orifices apparently
insufficient for some.
And having become enslaved to pop-psycho-babble that makes him BELIEVE
he must be right,
without regard to the consequence. Having accepted Freud as a scientist
rather than a literary
writer with wild fantasies based on drug induced observations of
abnormal behavior. All the
Freud croc applied to normal humans has contritribute to the poison of
the society...all because
it was born in a period called "Victorian" and its novelty somehow
offered justification for
worshipping lusts.
Yep. God must really hate us to have made us that way.
-Barry
========
Web page: http://members.optusnet.com.au/~barry.og
Atheist, radio scanner, LIPD information.
.
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|
| User: "rgeorge" |
|
| Title: Re: Redemption |
25 Feb 2004 03:02:06 PM |
|
|
"Barry OGrady" <god_freee_jones@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:c50p30p5mvp7oop4tma3i98stoarvv63u2@4ax.com...
On Tue, 24 Feb 2004 21:00:58 GMT, "rgeorge" <reecegeorge@yahoo.com.au>
wrote:
"maf1029" < mark@johnsonnot.thankzeus> wrote in message
news:l74h30t0hu7316uindiabagd4hmn0p281m@4ax.com...
On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 10:09:02 GMT, "rgeorge" <reecegeorge@yahoo.com.au>
wrote:
Those today who take God's Word and his requirements seriously are
appreciative of their blessings.
As are those who accept blessings from Vishnu, Allah, and Thor.
And just for fun, let's add in those who are law-abiding, concerned
with the environment, helpful to their fellow human being, and kind to
companion animals..... for no other reason than it is the right thing
to do.
This can be seen by the fact that their
lives are free from such "escape" expedients as materialism,
alcoholism,
drug addiction, gambling and pornography. It is even more apparent
from
the
fact that they are such law-abiding and happy people.
Christians are not the only people who are law-abiding and happy.
Christians do not own the monopoly on happiness.
No question about it. Regardless of your situation in life, whether
your
circumstances are normal, or even as difficult as those of the
paraplegic,
you have blessings that can be appreciated. You will appreciate them
if
you
do not take them for granted, if you do not let selfishness, greed or
envy
blind you to them.
Or blatant bigotry masquerading as religious fervor, M.
And there is no better way to come to a full appreciation
of your blessings than by gaining a knowledge and understanding of
God's
Word the Bible.
In your opinion. Others have found better ways.
I will be glad to help you to acquire that knowledge and
understanding.
I'm going to take a pass on your offer, for personal reasons.
The evidence of long history and the experience of millions of persons
alive
right now prove that we cannot turn our backs on moral standards or
principles and yet be lastingly happy. Those who have 'come to be past
all
moral sense, giving themselves over to loose conduct to work uncleanness
of
every sort with greediness' are not the happy ones. (Eph. 4:17-19; Rom.
13:13)
Do you get all your ideas from fictional books?
Such a course, either immediately or later, brings additional
sorrows, throwing up barriers on the road to happiness. Can you think of
actual cases corroborating that? On the other hand, doing things God's
way-in accord with his moral standards-reduces life's problems and so
clears
away roadblocks to our reaching happiness.
As long as you can stay out of the hands of the authorities.
Most countries don't take kindly to people committing genocide and murder
on a large scale as God commands and demonstrates to us.
Yet simply avoiding problems is
not in itself a guarantee of our being happy. More is needed.
Sure. We need the right sort of drugs to get our brain chemistry right.
We can be sure of that, for our Maker tells us so.
For some reason our maker gave us a brain that often malfunctions.
-Barry
========
Web page: http://members.optusnet.com.au/~barry.og
Atheist, radio scanner, LIPD information.
What would have happened if the churches in WW1 had successfully taught
their members that it was wrong to kill their fellowman, especially fellow
Christians? Since the peoples in those nations were practically all
professing Christians, the war would have been impossible to carry on!
Commenting on this matter, a prominent rabbi at the time, Stephen S. Wise,
said: "Failure of the churches and synagogues to maintain leadership over
the people was the cause of the present war." The churches, as is typical of
them, failed to give the people guidance that would lead them from
participation in the war.
.
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| User: "TehGhodTrole" |
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| Title: Re: Redemption |
21 Feb 2004 04:33:27 AM |
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Andrew W wrote:
[snip totally misunderstood concepts]
Where is the free will here?
There is no free will. There can be no free will if God is Sovereign.
Isaiah 43:13 [NIV]
Yes, and from ancient days I am he.
No one can deliver out of my hand.
When I act, who can reverse it?"
Man possesses "freedom of will" (not free will) only in the sense of having
a choice to act in one way or another within the confines imposed by his
totally depraved nature. In other words, man can't do anything but sin.
Thus, if man can't do anything but sin, it necessarily implies that he can't
do anything out of a pure motive.
So, there is no free will because we cannot do anything but sin. However the
restraining hand of God, apparently
prevents wholesale degeneration and self-destructive debauchery from
bursting out of your TV and into your loungeroom.
--
TehGhodTrole: Trolling, for God's sake.
Your Free Insult: Jesus loves you.
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| User: "Andrew W" |
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| Title: Re: Redemption |
21 Feb 2004 05:22:07 PM |
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"TehGhodTrole" <nospam@rainx.cjb.net> wrote in message
news:DprBk3GxBQAy61E72F8B25AA4D745GhBtYVkYMoH@kadaitcha.cx...
Andrew W wrote:
[snip totally misunderstood concepts]
No more misunderstood than the concepts in the bible by christians.
Where is the free will here?
There is no free will. There can be no free will if God is Sovereign.
Then we are hapless slaves at the mercy of an existential megalomaniac.
Isaiah 43:13 [NIV]
Yes, and from ancient days I am he.
No one can deliver out of my hand.
When I act, who can reverse it?"
An automated quote from emperor Constantine's reconstituted scriptures.
Man possesses "freedom of will" (not free will) only in the sense of
having
a choice to act in one way or another within the confines imposed by his
totally depraved nature.
Totally depraved nature?
That's what the church want it's followers to think so they're easy to
control.
In other words, man can't do anything but sin.
Lol.
You must mix with some bad company.
I see people do good things every day.
You've been believing the lies for too long.
A lie repeated long enough will eventually be accepted as truth, and
christianity has been at it for a very long time.
Thus, if man can't do anything but sin, it necessarily implies that he
can't
do anything out of a pure motive.
Lol.
So, there is no free will because we cannot do anything but sin. However
the
restraining hand of God, apparently
prevents wholesale degeneration and self-destructive debauchery from
bursting out of your TV and into your loungeroom.
It never ceases to amaze me how christians accept such ridiculous ideas as
fact and truth just because it's written in an old book which claims to be a
Mid East god's word.
--
TehGhodTrole: Trolling, for God's sake.
Your Free Insult: Jesus loves you.
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| User: "TehGhodTrole" |
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| Title: Re: Redemption |
21 Feb 2004 08:08:14 PM |
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Andrew W wrote:
"TehGhodTrole" <nospam@rainx.cjb.net> wrote in message
news:DprBk3GxBQAy61E72F8B25AA4D745GhBtYVkYMoH@kadaitcha.cx...
Andrew W wrote:
[snip totally misunderstood concepts]
No more misunderstood than the concepts in the bible by christians.
BZZZT! Strike one. You're replying to someone who can deal with the issues.
Where is the free will here?
There is no free will. There can be no free will if God is Sovereign.
Then we are hapless slaves at the mercy of an existential
megalomaniac.
BZZZT! Strike two. We are hapless slaves at the mercy of our depravity.
Isaiah 43:13 [NIV]
Yes, and from ancient days I am he.
No one can deliver out of my hand.
When I act, who can reverse it?"
An automated quote from emperor Constantine's reconstituted
scriptures.
BZZZZT! Strike three. Assertion made without reference to evidence or
supporting argument.
You're out.
*plonk*
--
TehGhodTrole: Trolling, for God's sake.
Your Free Insult: Jesus loves you.
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| User: "Andrew W" |
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| Title: Re: Redemption |
22 Feb 2004 01:39:17 AM |
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"TehGhodTrole" <nospam@rainx.cjb.net> wrote in message
news:t3HT0sWdIPAFCD689F908eoMRWjtvid5@24-hour-automotive.com...
Andrew W wrote:
"TehGhodTrole" <nospam@rainx.cjb.net> wrote in message
news:DprBk3GxBQAy61E72F8B25AA4D745GhBtYVkYMoH@kadaitcha.cx...
Andrew W wrote:
[snip totally misunderstood concepts]
No more misunderstood than the concepts in the bible by christians.
BZZZT! Strike one. You're replying to someone who can deal with the
issues.
If you're like other christians then your way of dealing with the issues is
to parrot embellished crap form an old book like christians have for
hundreds of years.
The very concept of belief and faith is to virtually turn off one's thinking
process.
This is what the religious elites want and most christians have complied
very eagerly, much to the elite's delights.
Where is the free will here?
There is no free will. There can be no free will if God is Sovereign.
Then we are hapless slaves at the mercy of an existential
megalomaniac.
BZZZT! Strike two. We are hapless slaves at the mercy of our depravity.
Lol.
Humans are not nearly as depraved as you have been led to believe by your
hidden cult leaders.
How often do you hear of people helping each other?
I hear it quite often myself.
Murderers etc are in a minority.
There are many more good people in this world than bad.
Just because one doesn't follow a deity's laws which have been trumped-up by
man over the centuries, doesn't make one evil.
Isaiah 43:13 [NIV]
Yes, and from ancient days I am he.
No one can deliver out of my hand.
When I act, who can reverse it?"
An automated quote from emperor Constantine's reconstituted
scriptures.
BZZZZT! Strike three. Assertion made without reference to evidence or
supporting argument.
You're out.
*plonk*
I don't provide references unless asked for, and even then I would say do a
google search for yourself.
Here's one to start you off.
http://gbgm-umc.org/umw/bible/xtnempire.html
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| User: "TehGhodTrole" |
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| Title: Re: Redemption |
22 Feb 2004 02:41:53 AM |
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Andrew W wrote:
"TehGhodTrole" <nospam@rainx.cjb.net> wrote in message
news:t3HT0sWdIPAFCD689F908eoMRWjtvid5@24-hour-automotive.com...
Andrew W wrote:
"TehGhodTrole" <nospam@rainx.cjb.net> wrote in message
news:DprBk3GxBQAy61E72F8B25AA4D745GhBtYVkYMoH@kadaitcha.cx...
Andrew W wrote:
[snip totally misunderstood concepts]
No more misunderstood than the concepts in the bible by christians.
BZZZT! Strike one. You're replying to someone who can deal with the
issues.
If you're like other christians then your way of dealing with the
issues is to parrot embellished crap form an old book like christians
have for hundreds of years.
Implied admission to unsupported assertions being "parrot embellished crap"
noted.
I don't provide references unless asked for
And I don't enter into discussions unless they are provided by default. Deal
with it.
Anyway, you've had your three strikes so now I'm just dissing you until you
either slink off in a shimmering but impotent rage or until a livid morass
of wild accusations explodes out of your frontal lobes and into your posts.
See if I might care.
--
TehGhodTrole: Trolling, for God's sake.
Your Free Insult: Jesus loves you.
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| User: "Barry OGrady" |
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| Title: Re: Redemption |
23 Feb 2004 06:29:33 AM |
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On Sat, 21 Feb 2004 18:08:14 -0800 (PST), "TehGhodTrole" <nospam@rainx.cjb.net> wrote:
Andrew W wrote:
"TehGhodTrole" <nospam@rainx.cjb.net> wrote in message
news:DprBk3GxBQAy61E72F8B25AA4D745GhBtYVkYMoH@kadaitcha.cx...
Andrew W wrote:
[snip totally misunderstood concepts]
No more misunderstood than the concepts in the bible by christians.
BZZZT! Strike one. You're replying to someone who can deal with the issues.
You wouldn't be a Christian if you could deal with the issues.
Where is the free will here?
There is no free will. There can be no free will if God is Sovereign.
Then we are hapless slaves at the mercy of an existential
megalomaniac.
BZZZT! Strike two. We are hapless slaves at the mercy of our depravity.
That reflects poorly on our creator.
Isaiah 43:13 [NIV]
Yes, and from ancient days I am he.
No one can deliver out of my hand.
When I act, who can reverse it?"
An automated quote from emperor Constantine's reconstituted
scriptures.
BZZZZT! Strike three. Assertion made without reference to evidence or
supporting argument.
You lose.
You're out.
*plonk*
--
TehGhodTrole: Trolling, for God's sake.
Your Free Insult: Jesus loves you.
-Barry
========
Web page: http://members.optusnet.com.au/~barry.og
Atheist, radio scanner, LIPD information.
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| User: "Helen" |
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| Title: Re: Redemption |
23 Feb 2004 06:41:27 AM |
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It is interesting how the so-called God haters are
attracted to this newsgroup. Must be Christ in the name.
Yes indeed, His name is powerful.
Have a good and Godly day.
Helen
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