| Topic: |
Religions > Bible |
| User: |
"Michael Christ" |
| Date: |
08 Dec 2007 05:50:43 AM |
| Object: |
Religious Organisations |
The Lord's been showing me more of late about the state of the religious
organisations.
None of them are His of course. Though anyone with any discernment knows
that.
Even the ones who do not believe that live with the little nag in the heart
deep down which testifies to the fact that things are not as they should be.
I hear the dissatisfaction all the time from the toilet cleaner to the
pulpit. The question is always the same: Why? 'Why, if we are the body of
Christ, why the powerlessness to overcome?' Of course, the overcoming is
not from without, but from within. That is the coal-face in which to meet
the true reality of a man's relationship with God. To surrender all, or not
to.
Anyway, my heart is heavy, as it always has been, for those poor souls
running to church every Sunday with all those works thinking that they are
'doing good' and where
salvation is a binding of oneself to religious ethics and standards and
morals. All the spiritual wickedness that comes out of pulpits is worse
than anything you can imagine in the so-called 'secular world'. Leonard
Ravenhill, a famous preacher [deceased] once said, if Jesus was to come back
now He would start by cleansing the pulpit.
I wait on the Lord for a time when He will do something about it. Not to
overrate Leonard Ravenhill but he also said, "The world is not waiting for
another definition of Christianity but a demonstration of Christianity." I
have to agree, and so would you if you choose to be honest.
I have been listening to the author John Ethredge of 'Wild at Heart' fame on
podcast through the itunes store on 'The Sacred Romance' (10 sessions)...
http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewPodcast?id=260843816
I thought it was pretty good and worth a listen. He seems to have
'detected' that many are far removed from the life they should and really
want to be living because they have made their hearts captive to the
intellect/ways of the world, especially within the religious organisations.
Michael Christ
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
My Sons are born of Me
They are My Spirit.
In them is no darkness at all.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
.
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| User: "Fred A Stover" |
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| Title: Re: Religious Organisations |
27 Dec 2007 04:59:24 AM |
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That's my other brother Fred, sitting on and burning lopped segments of
Ike's nose.
His,
--
http://tinyurl.com/2hf6ak
ho echon ota akoueto Preparing the way of the Lord
Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a
little child, he shall not enter therein. (Matt 10:15)
<)))))))><
"Mark T" <moi@home000whatever143> wrote in message
news:47730b48$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au...
"Fred The Stove" <fredstover7@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
Try reading it again, Goofy.
See a picture of Fred The Stove at
http://mehsc.blogspot.com:80/2007/10/gallery-of-mehsc-trolls.html
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
MEHSC HOMEPAGE - The Original and Best! http://mehsc.blogspot.com/
Maintained by
Professor Michelle S. Morris
Fizzix Lecturer & Fonix Tutor
Butter Homeskool Uni
C/- Kitchen Table
Home
Bible Belt USA
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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| User: "Fred A Stover" |
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| Title: Re: Religious Organisations |
20 Dec 2007 12:16:55 PM |
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"H.E. Eickleberry, Jr." <xeickleberrybooks@verizon.net> wrote in message
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"Fred A Stover" <fredstover7@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
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"H.E. Eickleberry, Jr." <xeickleberrybooks@verizon.net> wrote in message
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"Fred A Stover" <fredstover7@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
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"H.E. Eickleberry, Jr." <xeickleberrybooks@verizon.net> wrote in
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"Fred A Stover" <fredstover7@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
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"H.E. Eickleberry, Jr." <xeickleberrybooks@verizon.net> wrote in
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"Fred A Stover" <fredstover7@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
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"H.E. Eickleberry, Jr." <xeickleberrybooks@verizon.net> wrote in
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<natezenmaster@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:c30d094e-e6ab-4c0c-9b8c-f20b5ef1ad3d@a35g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
Yawn... typical Ike... throw out some labels, state no logic or
rebuttal and then past judgment on someone else as in a hell. You
believe in rote teaching, talking animals, a god that sends bears
to
maul youths, but it is always someone else that can't see past
the tip
of their nose...
LOL
You obviously don't know WHAT "I believe."
What you believe is obvious, what ever the devil tells you.
Nope.
The Lord tells me and everyone else to hold fast the faith THROUGH
the End of the Age.
You frauds say "I'll fly away."
Ike
ROTFL!!!!!!!!!
That is the end of the age, Goofy.
Thus have the false prognosticators been saying since their cult
started in the 1820s. And your every prediction has been wrong.
Your a one-man lunatic fringe that can't get anyone to join your cult
after reading your books.
LOL
What I tell you is right on the money, verse-by-verse, and historical
fact by historical fact.
You're a liar.
Nope.
Yes. You are a liar.
Ike
Lyin' Ike!
Two resurrections!
Resurrection is restoration from the fall:
1 Cor. 2:14
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for
they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are
spiritually discerned.
There are two resurrections:
John 5:28-29
Marvel not at this: for the time is coming, in the which all that are in
the graves shall hear his voice, [29] And shall come forth; they that have
done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto
the resurrection of judgment.
The first resurrection: "since by man came death, by man came also the
resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall
all be made alive. But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits;
afterward they that are Christ's at his coming" (1 Cor. 15:21-23).
Christ and His reigning with him are the first resurrection:
"And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was
given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the
witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the
beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their
foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a
thousand years (but the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand
years were finished). This is the first resurrection" (Rev. 20:4-5).
The resurrection of judgment is the other resurrection at the end of the
millennium:
in which the circumcision is saved: The 144,000 firstfruits (Rev 14:3-4),
and the rest when the thousand years are finished.
See if you can get this right.
This is the first resurrection
the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished
This is the first resurrection
the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished
This is the first resurrection
the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished
This is the first resurrection
the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished
1 Cor 2:14
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they
are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are
spiritually discerned.
His,
--
http://tinyurl.com/2hf6ak
ho echon ota akoueto Preparing the way of the Lord
Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a
little child, he shall not enter therein. (Matt 10:15)
<)))))))><
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| User: "Michael Christ" |
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| Title: Re: Religious Organisations |
15 Dec 2007 07:48:51 PM |
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Ike wrote:
As per the consistent usage in the prophets...
Cattle = pragmatic humanists.
Creeping things = universalistic idolaters.
Beasts of the Earth = fundamentalist legalists.
Fowls of the heavens = false spiritualists.
That is interesting.
Michael Christ
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
My Sons are born of Me
They are My Spirit.
In them is no darkness at all.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
.
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| User: "H.E. Eickleberry, Jr." |
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| Title: Re: Religious Organisations |
16 Dec 2007 12:12:45 AM |
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"Michael Christ" <christianlife@westnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:13m9102mu19f253@corp.supernews.com...
Ike wrote:
As per the consistent usage in the prophets...
Cattle = pragmatic humanists.
Creeping things = universalistic idolaters.
Beasts of the Earth = fundamentalist legalists.
Fowls of the heavens = false spiritualists.
That is interesting.
Just chase the symbols through the prophets and you'll find that there is a
consistent basis of use throughout their prophecies.
Examples...
On "Cattle."
Eze 34:17-22
And as for you, O my flock, thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I judge
between cattle and cattle, between the rams and the he goats.
Seemeth it a small thing unto you to have eaten up the good pasture, but
ye must tread down with your feet the residue of your pastures? and to have
drunk of the deep waters, but ye must foul the residue with your feet? And
as for my flock, they eat that which ye have trodden with your feet; and
they drink that which ye have fouled with your feet.
Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD unto them; Behold, I, even I, will
judge between the fat cattle and between the lean cattle, because ye have
thrust with side and with shoulder, and pushed all the diseased with your
horns, till ye have scattered them abroad; Therefore will I save my flock,
and they shall no more be a prey; and I will judge between cattle and
cattle.
Will God judge cattle? Or is He saying something more here?
Here, Ezekiel uses cattle to represent humanists, as cattle don't think
about what they are doing, but trample fields without regard and soil their
own drinking water while pursuing their immediate needs.
This is a very good representation of pragmatism.
On "creeping things."
Job 28:20-28
Whence then cometh wisdom? and where is the place of understanding?
Seeing it is hid from the eyes of all living, and kept close from the fowls
of the air.
Destruction and death say, We have heard the fame thereof with our ears.
God understandeth the way thereof, and he knoweth the place thereof, for
he looketh to the ends of the earth, and seeth under the whole heaven, to
make the weight for the winds; and he weigheth the waters by measure.
When he made a decree for the rain, and a way for the lightning of the
thunder: Then did he see it, and declare it; he prepared it, yea, and
searched it out. And unto man he said, Behold, the fear of the Lord, that is
wisdom; and to depart from evil is understanding.
Early in this passage, the prophet writes that God hides wisdom and
understanding from all the living, and keeps it "close" from "the fowls of
the air," where "fowls" represent (in this antithetic instance) those who
would intrude in the things of God APART from God's leadings, i.e. false
spiritualists (much like the witch of Endor) who meddle in the workings of
God without glorifying God. This is written in the same manner as Paul
speaks of Satan as being "the spirit of the air." [Eph 2:2]
Confirmation.
These are just a couple of examples, but as confirmation of Peter's vision,
go back and look at those whom God said He would make the New Covenant.
Hosea 2:18-20
And in that day will I make a covenant for them with the beasts of the
field, and with the fowls of heaven, and with the creeping things of the
ground: and I will break the bow and the sword and the battle out of the
earth, and will make them to lie down safely: And I will betroth thee unto
me for ever; yea, I will betroth thee unto me in righteousness, and in
judgment, and in lovingkindness, and in mercies. I will even betroth thee
unto me in faithfulness: and thou shalt know the LORD.
Pretty cool: Hosea uses the exact same symbolisms for those garnered into
the New Covenant that God uses to tell Peter to preach the Gospel to the
Gentiles in Acts 10.
But wait: These symbolisms don't start in the middle of the Bible. They
started all the way back at the beginning of the Bible, in the second
Genesis account, where God creates the "beasts of the field, and the fowls
of the air, and the cattle." But what happened to the "creeping things?"
Satan is the first "creeping thing," that is, the first idolater, sent
"creeping" on his "belly" for all time (meaning Satan worships the things
created rather than the creator of all things, and it is Satan's materialism
that will defeat him in the end).
Like I said in a parallel post, Adam and Eve were NOT the first ones here,
even though Adam was the first one made.
Nope.
The Gentiles were already here, via evolution.
In fact, they WERE "the garden of God."
Eze 31:8-9
The cedars in the garden of God could not hide him: the fir trees were
not like his boughs, and the chesnut trees were not like his branches; nor
any tree in the garden of God was like unto him in his beauty. I have made
him fair by the multitude of his branches: so that all the trees of Eden,
that were in the garden of God, envied him.
Since when do trees "envy" another "tree?"
Submitted for your consideration.
Ike
.
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| User: "Michael Christ" |
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| Title: Re: Religious Organisations |
16 Dec 2007 12:52:06 AM |
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"H.E. Eickleberry, Jr." <xeickleberrybooks@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:xl39j.226$L91.201@trndny05...
"Michael Christ" <christianlife@westnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:13m9102mu19f253@corp.supernews.com...
Ike wrote:
As per the consistent usage in the prophets...
Cattle = pragmatic humanists.
Creeping things = universalistic idolaters.
Beasts of the Earth = fundamentalist legalists.
Fowls of the heavens = false spiritualists.
That is interesting.
Just chase the symbols through the prophets and you'll find that there is
a consistent basis of use throughout their prophecies.
Examples...
On "Cattle."
Eze 34:17-22
And as for you, O my flock, thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I judge
between cattle and cattle, between the rams and the he goats.
Seemeth it a small thing unto you to have eaten up the good pasture,
but ye must tread down with your feet the residue of your pastures? and to
have drunk of the deep waters, but ye must foul the residue with your
feet? And as for my flock, they eat that which ye have trodden with your
feet; and they drink that which ye have fouled with your feet.
Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD unto them; Behold, I, even I, will
judge between the fat cattle and between the lean cattle, because ye have
thrust with side and with shoulder, and pushed all the diseased with your
horns, till ye have scattered them abroad; Therefore will I save my flock,
and they shall no more be a prey; and I will judge between cattle and
cattle.
Will God judge cattle? Or is He saying something more here?
Here, Ezekiel uses cattle to represent humanists, as cattle don't think
about what they are doing, but trample fields without regard and soil
their own drinking water while pursuing their immediate needs.
This is a very good representation of pragmatism.
On "creeping things."
Job 28:20-28
Whence then cometh wisdom? and where is the place of understanding?
Seeing it is hid from the eyes of all living, and kept close from the
fowls of the air.
Destruction and death say, We have heard the fame thereof with our
ears.
God understandeth the way thereof, and he knoweth the place thereof,
for he looketh to the ends of the earth, and seeth under the whole heaven,
to make the weight for the winds; and he weigheth the waters by measure.
When he made a decree for the rain, and a way for the lightning of the
thunder: Then did he see it, and declare it; he prepared it, yea, and
searched it out. And unto man he said, Behold, the fear of the Lord, that
is wisdom; and to depart from evil is understanding.
Early in this passage, the prophet writes that God hides wisdom and
understanding from all the living, and keeps it "close" from "the fowls of
the air," where "fowls" represent (in this antithetic instance) those who
would intrude in the things of God APART from God's leadings, i.e. false
spiritualists (much like the witch of Endor) who meddle in the workings of
God without glorifying God. This is written in the same manner as Paul
speaks of Satan as being "the spirit of the air." [Eph 2:2]
Confirmation.
These are just a couple of examples, but as confirmation of Peter's
vision, go back and look at those whom God said He would make the New
Covenant.
Hosea 2:18-20
And in that day will I make a covenant for them with the beasts of the
field, and with the fowls of heaven, and with the creeping things of the
ground: and I will break the bow and the sword and the battle out of the
earth, and will make them to lie down safely: And I will betroth thee unto
me for ever; yea, I will betroth thee unto me in righteousness, and in
judgment, and in lovingkindness, and in mercies. I will even betroth thee
unto me in faithfulness: and thou shalt know the LORD.
Pretty cool: Hosea uses the exact same symbolisms for those garnered into
the New Covenant that God uses to tell Peter to preach the Gospel to the
Gentiles in Acts 10.
But wait: These symbolisms don't start in the middle of the Bible. They
started all the way back at the beginning of the Bible, in the second
Genesis account, where God creates the "beasts of the field, and the fowls
of the air, and the cattle." But what happened to the "creeping things?"
Satan is the first "creeping thing," that is, the first idolater, sent
"creeping" on his "belly" for all time (meaning Satan worships the things
created rather than the creator of all things, and it is Satan's
materialism that will defeat him in the end).
Like I said in a parallel post, Adam and Eve were NOT the first ones here,
even though Adam was the first one made.
Nope.
The Gentiles were already here, via evolution.
In fact, they WERE "the garden of God."
Eze 31:8-9
The cedars in the garden of God could not hide him: the fir trees were
not like his boughs, and the chesnut trees were not like his branches; nor
any tree in the garden of God was like unto him in his beauty. I have made
him fair by the multitude of his branches: so that all the trees of Eden,
that were in the garden of God, envied him.
Since when do trees "envy" another "tree?"
Submitted for your consideration.
Ike
Thanks.
When all is said and done I wonder whether we will be able to see all
history, see it all first hand.
Michael Christ
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
My Sons are born of Me
They are My Spirit.
In them is no darkness at all.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
.
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| User: "H.E. Eickleberry, Jr." |
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| Title: Re: Religious Organisations |
16 Dec 2007 02:28:28 AM |
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"Michael Christ" <christianlife@westnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:13m9iom54ujr0f8@corp.supernews.com...
[snip]
When all is said and done I wonder whether we will be able to see all
history, see it all first hand.
Not only will we be able to, we will be required to.
Mal 3:16-18
Then they that feared the LORD spake often one to another: and the LORD
hearkened, and heard it, and a book of remembrance was written before him
for them that feared the LORD, and that thought upon his name. And they
shall be mine, saith the LORD of hosts, in that day when I make up my
jewels; and I will spare them, as a man spareth his own son that serveth
him.
Then shall ye return, and discern between the righteous and the wicked,
between him that serveth God and him that serveth him not.
Part of the process of sorting out who does and does not belong in whole
Israel will be going back to the beginning of all things to sort things out,
and see how all these things actually transpired, with an eye toward not
making the same mistakes again.
In essence, all of history is God's classroom.
Ike
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| User: "Mark T moi@home000whatever82" |
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| Title: Re: Religious Organisations |
16 Dec 2007 12:15:38 AM |
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"H.E. Eickleberry, Jr." <xeickleberrybooks@verizon.net> wrote:
On "creeping things."
--
Creepy fundamentalists are an abomination to God ....
"Every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth shall be an abomination."
Leviticus 11:41
"Ye shall not make yourselves abominable with any creeping thing that
creepeth." Leviticus 11:43
--
My Blog - MARK T - my thoughts on Christianity & links
http://www.blognow.com.au/strooth/
FUNDY FUNHOUSE -
http://fundamentalistfunhouse.blogspot.com/
- a resource on the current Fundamentalist Dark Age and Christian
fundamentalism.
My Soundclick Page - download my original songs in mp3 format
http://www.soundclick.com/marktindall
.
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| User: "H.E. Eickleberry, Jr." |
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| Title: Re: Religious Organisations |
16 Dec 2007 12:35:24 AM |
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"Mark T" <moi@home000whatever82> wrote in message
news:4764c289@dnews.tpgi.com.au...
"H.E. Eickleberry, Jr." <xeickleberrybooks@verizon.net> wrote:
On "creeping things."
--
Creepy fundamentalists are an abomination to God ....
"Every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth shall be an
abomination." Leviticus 11:41
"Ye shall not make yourselves abominable with any creeping thing that
creepeth." Leviticus 11:43
That's about idolaters, bowing to their gods that are not gods, idiot.
Don't be a "cow," man.
Ike
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| User: "Michael Christ" |
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| Title: Re: Religious Organisations |
16 Dec 2007 12:55:09 AM |
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Ike wrote:
On "creeping things."
Mark T wrote:2
Creepy fundamentalists are an abomination to God ....
"Every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth shall be an
abomination." Leviticus 11:41
"Ye shall not make yourselves abominable with any creeping thing that
creepeth." Leviticus 11:43
Ike wrote:
That's about idolaters, bowing to their gods that are not gods, idiot.
Don't be a "cow," man.
Ike
Some would argue some fundamentalists are idolaters, certainly some are
creepy. :-).
Michael Christ
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
My Sons are born of Me
They are My Spirit.
In them is no darkness at all.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
.
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| User: "H.E. Eickleberry, Jr." |
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| Title: Re: Religious Organisations |
16 Dec 2007 02:30:01 AM |
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"Michael Christ" <christianlife@westnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:13m9iucf5r6rg2f@corp.supernews.com...
Ike wrote:
On "creeping things."
Mark T wrote:2
Creepy fundamentalists are an abomination to God ....
"Every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth shall be an
abomination." Leviticus 11:41
"Ye shall not make yourselves abominable with any creeping thing that
creepeth." Leviticus 11:43
Ike wrote:
That's about idolaters, bowing to their gods that are not gods, idiot.
Don't be a "cow," man.
Ike
Some would argue some fundamentalists are idolaters, certainly some are
creepy. :-).
Yeah, but when Mark T says "fundamentalist," he means everyone who even
remotely believes the Bible.
Ike
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| User: "Mark T moi@home000whatever82" |
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| Title: Re: Religious Organisations |
16 Dec 2007 02:33:53 AM |
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"Michael Christ" wrote:
On "creeping things."
Creepy fundamentalists are an abomination to God ....
"Every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth shall be an
abomination." Leviticus 11:41
"Ye shall not make yourselves abominable with any creeping thing that
creepeth." Leviticus 11:43
....
Some would argue some fundamentalists are idolaters, certainly some are
creepy. :-).
Amen! ... like Ike.
--
My Blog - MARK T - my thoughts on Christianity & links
http://www.blognow.com.au/strooth/
FUNDY FUNHOUSE -
http://fundamentalistfunhouse.blogspot.com/
- a resource on the current Fundamentalist Dark Age and Christian
fundamentalism.
My Soundclick Page - download my original songs in mp3 format
http://www.soundclick.com/marktindall
.
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| User: "H.E. Eickleberry, Jr." |
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| Title: Re: Religious Organisations |
16 Dec 2007 02:43:00 AM |
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"Mark T" <moi@home000whatever82> wrote in message
news:4764e2ef$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au...
"Michael Christ" wrote:
On "creeping things."
Creepy fundamentalists are an abomination to God ....
"Every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth shall be an
abomination." Leviticus 11:41
"Ye shall not make yourselves abominable with any creeping thing that
creepeth." Leviticus 11:43
...
Some would argue some fundamentalists are idolaters, certainly some are
creepy. :-).
Amen! ... like Ike.
LOL
The only thing that creeps you out about me is I tell you the truth, and you
don't want to hear it, nor even address it.
You just turn and run like the chicken ***** you are.
Ike
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Religious Organisations |
15 Dec 2007 09:14:09 PM |
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nonsense but interesting nonsense.... I suppose also that when god
ordered the deaths of men, it was symbolism and not murder god was
endorsing and ordering... And when god said he'd force people to eat
their children, it wasn't actually children but just their previous
actions they would come to regret...
On Dec 15, 6:48 pm, "Michael Christ" <christianl...@westnet.com.au>
wrote:
Ike wrote:
As per the consistent usage in the prophets...
Cattle = pragmatic humanists.
Creeping things = universalistic idolaters.
Beasts of the Earth = fundamentalist legalists.
Fowls of the heavens = false spiritualists.
That is interesting.
Michael Christ
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
My Sons are born of Me
They are My Spirit.
In them is no darkness at all.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
.
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| User: "H.E. Eickleberry, Jr." |
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| Title: Re: Religious Organisations |
16 Dec 2007 12:15:24 AM |
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<natezenmaster@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:d51dd685-2dc0-4d7d-8c24-8ead1a253f3a@a35g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
nonsense but interesting nonsense.... I suppose also that when god
ordered the deaths of men, it was symbolism and not murder god was
endorsing and ordering... And when god said he'd force people to eat
their children, it wasn't actually children but just their previous
actions they would come to regret...
God has ordered deaths as required by righteousness, but God has NEVER
ordered "murder."
You play it fast and loose with your definitions, deceiver.
Ike
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Religious Organisations |
16 Dec 2007 08:59:38 AM |
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Here is a classic example of delusion in the name of justification of
belief:
God has ordered deaths as required by righteousness, but God has NEVER ordered "murder."
You play it fast and loose with your definitions, deceiver.
Ike
Righteousness is killing, but its not murder - and let me guess why.
Because since god (thus christians) create the law, then god is not
bound by the law. No wonder christianity has provided century after
century of violence and murder.
So the children that died in the flood - they were what? Blood hungry
thieves blaspheming god before they could speak? Oh wait, this is not
god ordering murder but committing it... so for ordering it:
1 Sam 15:3 "Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they
have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and
suckling.."
Hosea 13:16 ".. their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their
women with child shall be ripped up."
Leviticus 26:22 "I will also send wild beasts among you, which shall
rob you of your children, and destroy your cattle, and make you few in
number; and your high ways shall be desolate."
I Samuel 6:19 " . . . and the people lamented because the Lord had
smitten many of the people with a great slaughter."
Of course, now you can reinterpret all this to justify or whitewash
the cruelty. Tell us how god is pure for ordering infants to be killed
(and how its not murder). Presumably, its the fundamentalist legalists
(i.e. beasts) that god sent in Leviticus to rob people of their
children... And I guess in the flood, when god killed the infants and
children then they were asking for it? Or it was due to their
parents?
Ezekiel 18:20: "The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father."
Keep running in circles Ike, substituting meaning whenever you can.
Avoid and evade, god is above the law so his killing is righteous; the
illogic is not illogic because we can distort and find things to
substitute so that it is more palatable.
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| User: "H.E. Eickleberry, Jr." |
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| Title: Re: Religious Organisations |
16 Dec 2007 12:52:56 PM |
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<natezenmaster@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:9e2ebd2b-b39b-4ce5-bfe8-16b748fd83d7@e10g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
Here is a classic example of delusion in the name of justification of
belief:
God has ordered deaths as required by righteousness, but God has NEVER
ordered "murder."
You play it fast and loose with your definitions, deceiver.
Ike
Righteousness is killing, but its not murder - and let me guess why.
[snip]
Excuse me, but you have me confused with someone who gives a ***** about your
silly-***** rantings and ravings. Please take your issues down the hall to the
door marked "garbage chute." You'll have a much better chance of finding an
audience there.
Ike
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Religious Organisations |
16 Dec 2007 01:17:49 PM |
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On Dec 16, 11:52 am, "H.E. Eickleberry, Jr."
<xeickleberrybo...@verizon.net> wrote:
<natezenmas...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:9e2ebd2b-b39b-4ce5-bfe8-16b748fd83d7@e10g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
Here is a classic example of delusion in the name of justification of
belief:
God has ordered deaths as required by righteousness, but God has NEVER
ordered "murder."
You play it fast and loose with your definitions, deceiver.
Ike
Righteousness is killing, but its not murder - and let me guess why.
[snip]
Excuse me, but you have me confused with someone who gives a ***** about your
silly-***** rantings and ravings. Please take your issues down the hall to the
door marked "garbage chute." You'll have a much better chance of finding an
audience there.
Ike
sure Ike.... don't face the logic.... while you continue to believe in
a murderous god of love, devils and demons formed from a pure god,
and all your whitewash and BS as you move your way along. Waste your
life, I just hope you don't deceive too many others. And nice jump to
profanity, I thought that was distasteful, not to mention a no-no for
your type??? ah well...
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| User: "Qadosh Stephanos" |
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| Title: Re: Religious Organisations |
15 Dec 2007 08:36:59 AM |
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On Fri, 14 Dec 2007 18:38:56 -0800 (PST), "natezenmaster@gmail.com"
<natezenmaster@gmail.com> wrote:
Once I awoke, I have never had any confusion about Jesus. He is faultless/perfect.
So Micheal.... jesus and god are one; god orders the murder of
children and that is perfect? Hosea 13:16 "their infants shall be
dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up", 2
Kings 2:23-24, Deuteronomy 28:53, etc
Faultless? God creates satan and the angels - they rebel; god creates
people and allows satan, the lion and master deceiver, full and free
access to the newborn and naive humans. God places a lure in front of
their face - then punishes them repeatedly for generations for their
mistake? And god is faultless.... Right.... everyone suffers pain in
life, most suffer damnation in death - and all so that god can have
fellowship and people of incipient and fickle nature to worship him -
and faultless?
You are not awake. You are dreaming - because it comforts you. It is
the abandonment of thought....the bible is not true and the world will
be a better place when humans replace religion with reason.
There is no liberty in reasoning. Reasoning did not create morality.
Religion whether true or false is necessary for human collaboration.
Reality is when religion is replaced by the revelation of our Maker.
Morality and reason co-exist. Self-reasoning is righteous hypocrisy.
God didn't create this situation. Mankind brainwashed their mankind.
Escape your flesh, can't do it. You're a prisoner in your own flesh.
Maximum sentence is 120 years in the flesh. Minimum is 80 years old.
Noah, Hebrew's, Angels, Climate, Rocks, Technology, Life, and Death.
Do not allow religious fanatics to deter your search for after life.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Religious Organisations |
15 Dec 2007 08:55:52 AM |
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Qadosh,
There is no liberty in reasoning. Reasoning did not create morality.
There is only liberty in reasoning. The burning of witches on the
stake were done without reasoning, as was stoning, etc, etc. Without
reasoning we'd be sacrificing animals and people to appease the gods.
We'd be unable to distinguish between the physical world and the
Flying Spaghetti Monster.
Morality is generated from reasoning; independent of reasoning there
is no morality. Often times, theists confuse morality with
regulation.
Morality: noun. (1) Concern with the distinction between good and evil
or right and wrong; right or good conduct.
You cannot make a distinction with reasoning, Qadosh - thus the
torture during the inquisition, etc.
People define morals; they decide that which causes harm, destruction
or misfortune (evil) is unwanted, unacceptable behavior or conduct,
and to be avoided. They also decide that which is valuable, useful and
positive (good) behavior or conduct - and from that we determine our
laws, lives and society in general. Think of how morality has changed
over the centuries! Its because of human development and growth, not
god's development and growth... But you wish to take the entire word
and have it mean something else entirely. You want it to be a set of
standards laid out by a creator that everyone must adhere to (except
the creator itself evidently). Either way, morality is relative to
intelligence.
Self-reasoning is righteous hypocrisy.
Seems to me that thoughtless obedience is righteous hypocrisy.
Independent thinkers assert that ethical values and morality are
relative to human life and human intelligence, while Christians wish
it to be relative to god's intelligence. Christians believe
themselves too persuaded by biases and desires to correctly use their
intelligence to determine morality (or that its righteous hypocrisy) -
yet these same Christians that distrust human thought, completely
trust their human decision to believe in god, to believe in an
antiquated book of stories about god penned by another human and in
the christian human's interpretation of those writings. Highly
incongruent...
On Dec 15, 7:36 am, Qadosh Stephanos <qadosh.stepha...@yahoo.ca>
wrote:
On Fri, 14 Dec 2007 18:38:56 -0800 (PST), "natezenmas...@gmail.com"
<natezenmas...@gmail.com> wrote:
Once I awoke, I have never had any confusion about Jesus. He is faultless/perfect.
So Micheal.... jesus and god are one; god orders the murder of
children and that is perfect? Hosea 13:16 "their infants shall be
dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up", 2
Kings 2:23-24, Deuteronomy 28:53, etc
Faultless? God creates satan and the angels - they rebel; god creates
people and allows satan, the lion and master deceiver, full and free
access to the newborn and naive humans. God places a lure in front of
their face - then punishes them repeatedly for generations for their
mistake? And god is faultless.... Right.... everyone suffers pain in
life, most suffer damnation in death - and all so that god can have
fellowship and people of incipient and fickle nature to worship him -
and faultless?
You are not awake. You are dreaming - because it comforts you. It is
the abandonment of thought....the bible is not true and the world will
be a better place when humans replace religion with reason.
There is no liberty in reasoning. Reasoning did not create morality.
Religion whether true or false is necessary for human collaboration.
Reality is when religion is replaced by the revelation of our Maker.
Morality and reason co-exist. Self-reasoning is righteous hypocrisy.
God didn't create this situation. Mankind brainwashed their mankind.
Escape your flesh, can't do it. You're a prisoner in your own flesh.
Maximum sentence is 120 years in the flesh. Minimum is 80 years old.
Noah, Hebrew's, Angels, Climate, Rocks, Technology, Life, and Death.
Do not allow religious fanatics to deter your search for after life.
.
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| User: "Qadosh Stephanos" |
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| Title: Re: Religious Organisations |
09 Dec 2007 11:20:37 AM |
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On Sat, 8 Dec 2007 18:41:17 -0800 (PST),
wrote:
On Dec 9, 1:17 am, "natezenmas...@gmail.com" <natezenmas...@gmail.com>
wrote:
Anyone with discernment will recognize delusion and fallacy when it is
apparent; thus turning from religion and the bible. Debating about
which sect of Christianity or which view of scripture is truth is no
more than an pedantic exercise.. Chocked full of talking animals,
cruelty beyond measure and stories outside of all realistic
comparisons. Its like arguing what Zoroaster really wants from his
followers and who is truly following the truth of his teachings...
Once I awoke, I have never had any confusion about Jesus. He is
faultless/perfect.
Michael Christ
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
My Sons are born of Me
They are My Spirit.
In them is no darkness at all.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
You're still in the Matrix Michael, you just don't know it... yet.
Paul is the Matrix. You need to select the blue pill, not the red.
Come out of her, don't knock on the wrong door. Become like Jesus.
.
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| User: "bob young" |
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| Title: Re: Religious Organisations |
09 Dec 2007 01:27:03 AM |
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Michael Christ wrote:
The Lord's been showing me more of late about the state of the religious
organisations.
You mean your vivid imagination is working overtime.
None of them are His of course. Though anyone with any discernment knows
that.
Yes indeed, every clique, every cult, every 'denomination', these are all the
work of man; in fact man, in his wisdom [or fear] created the god himself, and
named it after himself - creating 'it' as a male
Even the ones who do not believe that live with the little nag in the heart
deep down which testifies to the fact that things are not as they should be.
I know things are not as they should be when my contemporaries grovel to myths
from two thousand plus years ago
I hear the dissatisfaction all the time from the toilet cleaner to the
pulpit. The question is always the same: Why? 'Why, if we are the body of
Christ, why the powerlessness to overcome?' Of course, the overcoming is
not from without, but from within. That is the coal-face in which to meet
the true reality of a man's relationship with God. To surrender all, or not
to.
What ? !
Anyway, my heart is heavy, as it always has been, for those poor souls
running to church every Sunday with all those works thinking that they are
'doing good' and where
salvation is a binding of oneself to religious ethics and standards and
morals. All the spiritual wickedness that comes out of pulpits is worse
than anything you can imagine in the so-called 'secular world'. Leonard
Ravenhill, a famous preacher [deceased] once said, if Jesus was to come back
now He would start by cleansing the pulpit.
I wait on the Lord for a time when He will do something about it.
you have a loooooong wait Buddy
Not to
overrate Leonard Ravenhill but he also said, "The world is not waiting for
another definition of Christianity but a demonstration of Christianity." I
have to agree, and so would you if you choose to be honest.
I have been listening to the author John Ethredge of 'Wild at Heart' fame on
podcast through the itunes store on 'The Sacred Romance' (10 sessions)...
http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewPodcast?id=260843816
I thought it was pretty good and worth a listen. He seems to have
'detected' that many are far removed from the life they should and really
want to be living because they have made their hearts captive to the
intellect/ways of the world, especially within the religious organisations.
Michael Christ
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
My Sons are born of Me
They are My Spirit.
In them is no darkness at all.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
.
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| User: "Sensi" |
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| Title: Re: Religious Organisations |
08 Dec 2007 04:58:48 PM |
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Michael Christ wrote:
The Lord's been showing me more of late about the state of the religious
organisations.
None of them are His of course. Though anyone with any discernment knows
that.
Even the ones who do not believe that live with the little nag in the heart
deep down which testifies to the fact that things are not as they should be.
I hear the dissatisfaction all the time from the toilet cleaner to the
pulpit. The question is always the same: Why? 'Why, if we are the body of
Christ, why the powerlessness to overcome?' Of course, the overcoming is
not from without, but from within. That is the coal-face in which to meet
the true reality of a man's relationship with God. To surrender all, or not
to.
Anyway, my heart is heavy, as it always has been, for those poor souls
running to church every Sunday with all those works thinking that they are
'doing good' and where
salvation is a binding of oneself to religious ethics and standards and
morals. All the spiritual wickedness that comes out of pulpits is worse
than anything you can imagine in the so-called 'secular world'. Leonard
Ravenhill, a famous preacher [deceased] once said, if Jesus was to come back
now He would start by cleansing the pulpit.
I wait on the Lord for a time when He will do something about it. Not to
overrate Leonard Ravenhill but he also said, "The world is not waiting for
another definition of Christianity but a demonstration of Christianity." I
have to agree, and so would you if you choose to be honest.
I have been listening to the author John Ethredge of 'Wild at Heart' fame on
podcast through the itunes store on 'The Sacred Romance' (10 sessions)...
http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewPodcast?id=260843816
I thought it was pretty good and worth a listen. He seems to have
'detected' that many are far removed from the life they should and really
want to be living because they have made their hearts captive to the
intellect/ways of the world, especially within the religious organisations.
Michael Christ
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
My Sons are born of Me
They are My Spirit.
In them is no darkness at all.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Sensi:
Welcome back MC. What you bring to the table may not always
be eaten by everyone but at least your willing to share.
Love,
Sensi
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| User: "Michael Christ" |
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| Title: Re: Religious Organisations |
08 Dec 2007 07:49:36 PM |
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"Sensi" <sensi-4N-sight@yayhoo.com> wrote in message
news:13lm8dbnu733rc8@corp.supernews.com...
Michael Christ wrote:
The Lord's been showing me more of late about the state of the religious
organisations.
None of them are His of course. Though anyone with any discernment knows
that.
Even the ones who do not believe that live with the little nag in the
heart deep down which testifies to the fact that things are not as they
should be. I hear the dissatisfaction all the time from the toilet
cleaner to the pulpit. The question is always the same: Why? 'Why, if
we are the body of Christ, why the powerlessness to overcome?' Of
course, the overcoming is not from without, but from within. That is the
coal-face in which to meet the true reality of a man's relationship with
God. To surrender all, or not to.
Anyway, my heart is heavy, as it always has been, for those poor souls
running to church every Sunday with all those works thinking that they
are 'doing good' and where
salvation is a binding of oneself to religious ethics and standards and
morals. All the spiritual wickedness that comes out of pulpits is worse
than anything you can imagine in the so-called 'secular world'. Leonard
Ravenhill, a famous preacher [deceased] once said, if Jesus was to come
back now He would start by cleansing the pulpit.
I wait on the Lord for a time when He will do something about it. Not to
overrate Leonard Ravenhill but he also said, "The world is not waiting
for another definition of Christianity but a demonstration of
Christianity." I have to agree, and so would you if you choose to be
honest.
I have been listening to the author John Ethredge of 'Wild at Heart' fame
on podcast through the itunes store on 'The Sacred Romance' (10
sessions)...
http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewPodcast?id=260843816
I thought it was pretty good and worth a listen. He seems to have
'detected' that many are far removed from the life they should and really
want to be living because they have made their hearts captive to the
intellect/ways of the world, especially within the religious
organisations.
Michael Christ
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
My Sons are born of Me
They are My Spirit.
In them is no darkness at all.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Sensi:
Welcome back MC. What you bring to the table may not always
be eaten by everyone but at least your willing to share.
That is a understatement for sure, but thank you.
:-).
Love,
Sensi
Here's a toast to the Lord Jesus who knows where everyone is and gives them
what they need.
Cheers.
Michael Christ
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
My Sons are born of Me
They are My Spirit.
In them is no darkness at all.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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| User: "Mark T moi@home000whatever67" |
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| Title: Re: Religious Organisations |
08 Dec 2007 06:43:25 PM |
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"Sensi" wrote:
Welcome back MC.
Ditto.
What you bring to the table may not always
be eaten by everyone but at least your willing to share.
It is far better than the crap we have had served up by others.
--
My Blog - MARK T - my thoughts on Christianity & links
http://www.blognow.com.au/strooth/
FUNDY FUNHOUSE -
http://fundamentalistfunhouse.blogspot.com/
- a resource on the current Fundamentalist Dark Age and Christian
fundamentalism.
My Soundclick Page - download my original songs in mp3 format
http://www.soundclick.com/marktindall
.
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| User: "Sensi" |
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| Title: Re: Religious Organisations |
08 Dec 2007 06:54:51 PM |
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Mark T wrote:
"Sensi" wrote:
Welcome back MC.
Ditto.
What you bring to the table may not always
be eaten by everyone but at least your willing to share.
It is far better than the crap we have had served up by others.
Sensi:
Yep, that it is. When it's served,you can always turn it away.
.
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| User: "Mark T moi@home000whatever67" |
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| Title: Re: Religious Organisations |
08 Dec 2007 07:19:41 PM |
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"Sensi" wrote:
What you bring to the table may not always
be eaten by everyone but at least your willing to share.
It is far better than the crap we have had served up by others.
....
Yep, that it is. When it's served,you can always turn it away.
Whereas the crap we have been served by others has a stench that lingers on
.... like a McDonalds meal.
Would you like "fry in hell" with that?
--
My Blog - MARK T - my thoughts on Christianity & links
http://www.blognow.com.au/strooth/
FUNDY FUNHOUSE -
http://fundamentalistfunhouse.blogspot.com/
- a resource on the current Fundamentalist Dark Age and Christian
fundamentalism.
My Soundclick Page - download my original songs in mp3 format
http://www.soundclick.com/marktindall
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Religious Organisations |
13 Dec 2007 05:48:14 AM |
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On Dec 8, 3:50 am, "Michael Christ" <christianl...@westnet.com.au>
wrote:
I wait on the Lord for a time when He will do something about it. Not to
overrate Leonard Ravenhill but he also said, "The world is not waiting for
another definition of Christianity but a demonstration of Christianity." I
have to agree, and so would you if you choose to be honest.
No, I disagree. You have to crawl before you walk and walk before you
run. The first step is for man to properly receive the Gospel. That
is the seed of future attainment. No willingness to receive the seed,
in all humility, and no attainment will be possible. Edgar Cayce
spoke of patience as the fifth dimension. Those without patience
don't understand the first thing about the spiritual path.
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Religious Organisations |
21 Dec 2007 01:16:25 PM |
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On Sat, 8 Dec 2007 22:50:43 +1100, "Michael Christ"
<christianlife@westnet.com.au> wrote:
The Lord's been showing me more of late about the state of the religious
organisations.
None of them are His of course. Though anyone with any discernment knows
that.
Which "lord" are you referring to? Not the God of the Bible, of
course. Which "religious organisations" are you referring to?
There are a BUNCH of Christian church organizations (Baptist,
Lutheran, Presbyterian, Bible churches, Assemblies of God, etc. etc.)
that DO belong to Jesus Christ. If you have a different "lord" then
you are right, but if you are referring to the God of the Bible, you
are WAAAAAAAAAAAAY off base!
Even the ones who do not believe that live with the little nag in the heart
deep down which testifies to the fact that things are not as they should be.
I'm sorry if you suffer from such a problem with YOUR church; we don't
have that problem.
I hear the dissatisfaction all the time from the toilet cleaner to the
pulpit. The question is always the same: Why? 'Why, if we are the body of
Christ, why the powerlessness to overcome?' Of course, the overcoming is
not from without, but from within. That is the coal-face in which to meet
the true reality of a man's relationship with God. To surrender all, or not
to.
Do these little voices in your head come often?
So how do YOU define "to surrender all?" Do you live in a house? Or
did you give that to the poor? Do you wear shoes? Or did they go to
the guy on the corner whose shoes had holes in them? Do you have
money in your pocket or bank account? That could have gone for food
for hungry folks.
How much of your "stuff" is "all?"
Anyway, my heart is heavy, as it always has been, for those poor souls
running to church every Sunday with all those works thinking that they are
'doing good' and where
salvation is a binding of oneself to religious ethics and standards and
morals.
I don't know what "church" YOU attend, but no churches I would
consider to be Christian (such as (Baptist, Lutheran, Presbyterian,
Bible churches, Assemblies of God, etc. etc.) would EVER consider that
"salvation is a binding of oneself to religious ethics and standards
and morals" was true. You are making a "strawman argument" by making
such a stupid blanket statement about "religious organisations" (which
you cannot even seem to be able to spell correctly).
All the spiritual wickedness that comes out of pulpits is worse
than anything you can imagine in the so-called 'secular world'.
Not the pulpits of Christians churches. Maybe the church YOU attend.
.. .
Leonard
Ravenhill, a famous preacher [deceased] once said, if Jesus was to come back
now He would start by cleansing the pulpit.
Harvey Putnager once said, "If Leonard Ravenhill were ever to preach
an honest sermon, he might fall over in a faint!"
Lots of kooks preach lots of things in aberrant churches. They do not
however, represent the norm.
I wait on the Lord for a time when He will do something about it.
Don't hold your breath. The aberrant fakes will be judged just as you
and I are judged.
Not to
overrate Leonard Ravenhill but he also said, "The world is not waiting for
another definition of Christianity but a demonstration of Christianity." I
have to agree, and so would you if you choose to be honest.
The world has no understanding of Christianity.
1 Cor 2:13-14
14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of
God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because
they are spiritually discerned.
NKJV
I have been listening to the author John Ethredge of 'Wild at Heart' fame on
I <snipped> the link. I am singularly unimpressed. You should look
up John MacArthur if you want some good preaching.
In the meantime you should think about the stupidity of making such
blanket statements as you have made in this post.
in the Name of Jesus,
Checker
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| User: "Michael Christ" |
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| Title: Re: Religious Organisations |
21 Dec 2007 05:53:34 PM |
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(snip)
Checker wrote:
In the meantime you should think about the stupidity of making such
blanket statements as you have made in this post.
in the Name of Jesus,
Checker
Obviously you spent a bit of time replying so the least I can do is respond.
You have raised lots of points. To address them all would take too long and
besides it is obvious you have already made up your mind.
Having said that, even if I am stupid, you are the reason I write such a
post because the spirit in which you write is not 'in the Name of Jesus',
Checker, and therefore a testimony to the truth of the post. You see the
truth is revealed in the spirit of a person not what they say. And so it is
with God, those who seek His Spirit, find Him; those who seek His words (the
power therein), find Him not.
Joh 5:39 Search the Scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life:
and they are they which testify of me.
Joh 5:40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.
That is what your churches do, they seek the power and the glory, not the
sweet Spirit of God to surrender all to, to marry, with all their heart. If
they did then they would.
Nevertheless I downloaded a sermon from John MacArthur about prayer. It
sounds quite good thus far. I listened to the first 5mins or so.
Michael Christ
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
My Sons are born of Me
They are My Spirit.
In them is no darkness at all.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
.
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| User: " ::: good news :::" |
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| Title: Re: Religious Organisations |
21 Dec 2007 06:49:34 PM |
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In news:13mokfvf2ne2q7b@corp.supernews.com,
Michael Christ <christianlife@westnet.com.au> typed:
(snip)
Checker wrote:
In the meantime you should think about the stupidity of making such
blanket statements as you have made in this post.
in the Name of Jesus,
Checker
Obviously you spent a bit of time replying so the least I can do is
respond.
You have raised lots of points. To address them all would take too
long and besides it is obvious you have already made up your mind.
Having said that, even if I am stupid, you are the reason I write
such a post because the spirit in which you write is not 'in the Name
of Jesus', Checker, and therefore a testimony to the truth of the
post. You see the truth is revealed in the spirit of a person not
what they say. And so it is with God, those who seek His Spirit,
find Him; those who seek His words (the power therein), find Him not.
Joh 5:39 Search the Scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal
life: and they are they which testify of me.
Joh 5:40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.
That is what your churches do, they seek the power and the glory, not
the sweet Spirit of God to surrender all to, to marry, with all their
heart. If they did then they would.
Michael, do you not think you are using a broad brush, and do not take
into account that the church consists of individuals?
There are two (maybe more, but I do t want to take them into account)
possible explanations of how you see things...
This is the first version...
You really believe that people have to be perfect already, and could
otherwise not come to God, or would not be accepted by Him. Well, this
is the most stupid view, because it would make you a sectarian or a
disturbed, but it is surely not the Christian view. It is a religion
that would have to stand alone, and you would have to stand alone and
make yourself the centre of this universe, because you will never find
anyone else who is as perfect as you think you are yourself... But you
are deceiving yourself and will wake up one day.
This is the version no. 2 in which I put all my hope ...
You believe we become perfect by the blood of Jesus (not Michael) Christ
alone, if we believe in Him. Not everyone in the churches believe this.
I have heard that only 20 per cent of the German evangelical pastors
really believe in the resurrection and in Jesus Christ. This given,
there are many people in the churches who will be rejected ("Pastor"
Dave would be rejected for his way how he thinks of African starving
children, for example, and then for all his heresy and lovelessness,
lies and deceit - no chance for him...). It is not enough to give a lip
confession to God, but as you say, it is important to keep His
Commandments, namely to love Him with all your heart and all you have,
and your neighbour as yourself. Yet God knows that we cannot become
perfect here on earth to be justified. That is why He sent Jesus to take
our sins onto Him. He was the *only* person on earth that was blameless,
God's lamb.
But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ,
(by grace ye are saved;) And hath raised us up together, and made us sit
together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: That in the ages to come he
might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us
through Christ Jesus. For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that
not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man
should boast. (Ephesians 2:4-9 KJV)
Then there are surely people all over this world who can become
believers and who are no church members. Being a church member is not
necessary to belong to God, but when people become believers, they have
the longing to share their faith with others, and to praise God together
with others and pray to him. So you might have believers and unbelievers
in the churches, which does not matter much...
But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and
went his way. But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit,
then appeared the tares also. So the servants of the householder came
and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from
whence then hath it tares? He said unto them, An enemy hath done this.
The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them
up? But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also
the wheat with them. Let both grow together until the harvest: and in
the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first
the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat
into my barn. (Matthew 13:25-30 KJV)
So we have wheat and tares in the churches, too... but you can only see
the tares, which is simply wrong. (And tares are not necessarily false
teachers...)
But you are right on this - God can only use perfect people. Sin is what
separates us from God - so we are still separated, but not in Spirit,
but our bodies are. We are perfect for God already, because we belong to
Him. One day we will see Him face to face, though, when Jesus comes
back. Until then we will continue to sin - more or less - and add to the
load He had on His shoulders on Calvary for us.
Nevertheless I downloaded a sermon from John MacArthur about prayer.
It sounds quite good thus far. I listened to the first 5mins or so.
Michael Christ
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
My Sons are born of Me
They are My Spirit.
In them is no darkness at all.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
::: vera :::
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::::::: http://www.acc-growing-deeper.de/Israel.htm :::::::
::::::: http://www.e-sword.net :::::::
::::::: http://alpha.org/default.asp :::::::
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