| Topic: |
Religions > Bible |
| User: |
"Zeefor" |
| Date: |
02 Jul 2005 08:05:50 AM |
| Object: |
Revelation Word Translations... |
In Revelation 3:8, I need to know the exact definition of the word
'strength'.
"I know your deeds. See, I have placed before you an open door that no
one can shut. I know that you have little [STRENGTH], yet you have kept
my word and have not denied my name." (NIV)
Does the word 'strength' refer to power, or being weak? Anyone know?
Also, there's this passage from Revelation 3:10. I need to know the
exact definition of the word 'trial'.
"Since you have kept my command to endure patiently, I will also keep
you from the hour of [TRIAL] that is going to come upon the whole world
to test those who live on the earth." (NIV)
Thanks in advance for the help. If possible, could you email the
answers to my questions as well as post them on usenet?
Zeefor
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| User: "H.E. Eickleberry, Jr." |
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| Title: Re: Revelation Word Translations... |
02 Jul 2005 09:20:15 AM |
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"Zeefor" <zeefor@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1120309550.341468.112020@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
In Revelation 3:8, I need to know the exact definition of the word
'strength'.
"I know your deeds. See, I have placed before you an open door that no
one can shut. I know that you have little [STRENGTH], yet you have kept
my word and have not denied my name." (NIV)
Does the word 'strength' refer to power, or being weak? Anyone know?
Also, there's this passage from Revelation 3:10. I need to know the
exact definition of the word 'trial'.
"Since you have kept my command to endure patiently, I will also keep
you from the hour of [TRIAL] that is going to come upon the whole world
to test those who live on the earth." (NIV)
Thanks in advance for the help. If possible, could you email the
answers to my questions as well as post them on usenet?
Zeefor
The KJV authors were not real consistent about which words they used where,
especially where the Seven Spirits (of all things) were concerned.
The word should be "power," not "strength." It is "dunamis" (authority)
rather than "ischus" (physical advantage). (Then, to make matters worse, the
KJV translators translate "ischus" as both "strength" and "might," muddying
the waters even more.)
The NRSV has it right. I don't know about any other versions.
This is what I wrote in "The Character Map:"
Power [p. 106]
The third Spirit is Power (Gk: dunamis). Power is any physical,
intellectual, or spiritual control or authority over forces, especially to
the end that one can establish something, [2 Sam 22:39] as in dominion. [Ps
8:6]
We exercise power through words, written or spoken, especially where
accusations or dismissals are concerned.
We exercise power through our conduct, especially as it pertains to
persecution or advocacy.
We exercise power through distribution, especially as it pertains to
discrimination or equity.
Our ultimate power is over life and death. This is a hot topic in
Revelation, for Christ shows mercy on the downtrodden and condemns those who
abuse power, whereas the adversary shows mercy on those who should be
condemned, and condemns those who should be shown mercy.
Strength [p. 109]
The seventh Spirit is Strength (Gk: ischus) Strength is any physical,
intellectual, or spiritual advantage one person has over another.
If you can run a one-minute mile, you have physical strength over most
people. Sampson would be the prime biblical example of one who had physical
strength. (Unfortunately, Sampson misused his physical strength and it was
of little value to him. In the end, he had to exchange his physical strength
for spiritual strength to make the physical strength work to his, and God's,
advantage.)
If you can do trigonometry in your head, you have intellectual strength
over most people. Paul would be a good biblical example of someone with
great mental strength. Paul, while weak in the flesh, was able to write of
things "hard to be understood." [2 Pet 3:16] This was true even before his
conversion, when he was a man of letters, in both the Roman and Jewish
traditions. However, Paul's intellectual strength was of little use to him
until a profound thing happened: He encountered Jesus Christ. After that,
Paul became a powerful man of words and deeds, and all because he reapplied
his mental strength to his newfound spiritual strength.
Finally, we come to spiritual strength. If we have spiritual strength,
we have the greatest strength of all, for spiritual strength overcomes or
redirects physical or intellectual strength, as the situation warrants. It
is the strength that can only come from God (though some may attempt to draw
on other sources). Furthermore, one can only arrive at true spiritual
strength when they direct it to the glory of God.
Note that there is a bit of a problem when the word strength appears (or
does not appear) in the KJV of the Bible: The translators inconsistently
translate the word ischus as strength in some places in Revelation, and
might in others. This causes problems, especially when we compare lists of
the Seven Spirits (as will become evident later). This is not wrong, but it
does not help when one is trying to understand the message that God is
trying to convey.
As for your other question, the word "peirasmos" is translated "trial" in
the NIV and "temptation" in the KJV (and it is translated that way 19
times).
It refers to the saints' temptation to deny the truth under fire, just as
Satan tempted Jesus to deny the truth three times in the wilderness. (In
fact, it's the same word in both instances.)
All this refers to Jesus statement that those who do not take up their cross
and follow Him are not worthy of Him.
He did it.
The Apostles did it.
The first century Christians did it.
And what goes around comes around.
Ike
--
www.eickleberrybooks.com
******************************
The Tree of Life (from "The Character Map")
The Beloved
Faith Hope
Righteousness Judgment Compassion
Courage Integrity Diligence Grace
Discipline of Thought Service Desire Decision and Belief
Glory Honor Power Wisdom Riches Blessing Strength w/Thanksgiving
He Who Loves
******************************
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| User: "Zeefor" |
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| Title: Re: Revelation Word Translations... |
03 Jul 2005 07:25:21 AM |
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Thank you for your help. I was wondering, what is the most accurate
translation available, so I can get the most precise version of the
Book?
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| User: "H.E. Eickleberry, Jr." |
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| Title: Re: Revelation Word Translations... |
03 Jul 2005 09:16:22 AM |
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"Zeefor" <zeefor@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1120393521.194631.96170@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Thank you for your help. I was wondering, what is the most accurate
translation available, so I can get the most precise version of the
Book?
It's still the KJV, mostly because 90% of it came from Tyndale's first
English version, hence, it wasn't "edited" by committee. Tyndale didn't have
a private agenda in mind. He just wanted to put the Word in the hands of the
people.
Can't say that about the modern versions. Each one is slightly slanted
towards the particular theological viewpoint of the group of churches that
"authorized" it, so funny things happen to the texts.
You also have the problem of various "experts"--linguists, historians,
theologians--who feel compelled to put in their two cents and make their
"mark" on the Bible.
For instance, in many modern editions, the name of the river "Hiddekel" that
was originally in Daniel's texts was changed to "Tigris" because some dweeb
reasoned that Daniel was in Babylon, so it must have been the Tigris.
Nevermind the prophetic significance of the word.
Another instance is changing "morning stars and sons of God" in the book of
Job to "morning stars and angels" because the implications of the original
statement are too profound, nevermind that "ben Elohym" has to be "sons" of
somebody, and it ain't "sons of angels."
The NRSV and NIV are useable, but for serious study, I would suggest the KJV
and a good Bible program that will let you study the texts in the original
language.
Ike
www.eickleberrybooks.com
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| User: "Pastor Dave" |
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| Title: Re: Revelation Word Translations... |
03 Jul 2005 12:04:24 PM |
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On 3 Jul 2005 05:25:21 -0700, "Zeefor"
<zeefor@yahoo.com> spake thusly:
Thank you for your help. I was wondering, what is the most accurate
translation available, so I can get the most precise version of the
Book?
The most accurate. That's a tough one. ;)
First, I disqualify any Bible's translated from the
Alexandrian Text, since it doesn't matter how
accurate it is, if it's translated from a corrupt text.
Unfortunately, that would disqualify almost all
modern English translations.
There is always the KJV, which is a very good
translation.
If you want modern English, there is the ALT
(Analytical Literal Translation), which is highly
accurate and will bring forth things in the NT
that you never even knew before. :) It is an
NT translation only though and it is available
in e-Sword and for purchase at the following
we site...
http://www.dtl.org/alt/
The KJIII is another good one that's on the way.
http://www.sovgracepub.com/bibles/LITV2005.htm
Lots of people complain about the NKJV, but
I have found it to be a pretty reliable translation.
The complaints always stem from whether or not
it matches the KJV word for word, but that isn't
a valid complaint, since the KJV is a great, but
not a perfect translation. I will admit I'm not nuts
about the symbol they use. While they may think
it is a Christian symbol (and Christians did adopt
it), it is actually a pagan symbol and they really
should get rid of it.
http://tinyurl.com/dz7mg
The New Geneva Study Bible is an NKJV and it
is a very nice Bible. I don't agree with the end
times theology, but since I don't agree with any
of what the modern churches teach about it,
that is no surprise. :) And they do present the
other side, so it isn't too bad in that dept. :)
Other than that, it has some extremely helpful
notes and information that will enhance your
studies and I highly recommend it. I have one
and the leather (at least when I got mine) is
very soft and is of high quality.
http://tinyurl.com/a6tq5
Personally, I recommend that you get the Geneva
and an ALT, which is hardcover and compare them
when you run across the "all important" verses
about the end times.
You can also have the ALT in e-Sword and use
the parallel feature to compare it to the KJV, etc..
www.e-Sword.net
--
Pastor Dave
Silence in the Face of Doctrinal Criticism is Suicide
http://www.ecclesia.org/truth/solution.html
http://tinyurl.com/ce97m
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| User: "Bill" |
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| Title: Re: Revelation Word Translations... |
03 Jul 2005 02:54:30 PM |
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Your trying to find the needle in the hey stack.
There are NO "original" Bibles in existence. They are all copies of copies
etc. made by errant and greedy men.
The printing press was not invented until 1550 AD and all the Bibles
predate this by more than 1200 years. Most by as much as 2,000 years.
"Zeefor" <zeefor@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1120393521.194631.96170@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Thank you for your help. I was wondering, what is the most accurate
translation available, so I can get the most precise version of the
Book?
.
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| User: "Pastor Dave" |
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| Title: Re: Revelation Word Translations... |
02 Jul 2005 12:42:28 PM |
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On 2 Jul 2005 06:05:50 -0700, "Zeefor"
<zeefor@yahoo.com> spake thusly:
In Revelation 3:8, I need to know the exact definition of the word
'strength'.
"I know your deeds. See, I have placed before you an open door that no
one can shut. I know that you have little [STRENGTH], yet you have kept
my word and have not denied my name." (NIV)
Does the word 'strength' refer to power, or being weak? Anyone know?
Dunamis - force (literally or figuratively);
specifically miraculous power (usually
by implication a miracle itself)
Also, there's this passage from Revelation 3:10. I need to know the
exact definition of the word 'trial'.
"Since you have kept my command to endure patiently, I will also keep
you from the hour of [TRIAL] that is going to come upon the whole world
to test those who live on the earth." (NIV)
Thanks in advance for the help. If possible, could you email the
answers to my questions as well as post them on usenet?
Peirasmos - a putting to proof (by experiment
[of good], experience [of evil], solicitation,
discipline or provocation); by implication adversity
--
Pastor Dave
Silence in the Face of Doctrinal Criticism is Suicide
http://www.ecclesia.org/truth/solution.html
http://tinyurl.com/ce97m
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