Religions > Bible > Roman Soldiers (Rather Than Jews) Executed (Killed) Yeshua
| Topic: |
Religions > Bible |
| User: |
"Shmuel Playfair SPlayfair" |
| Date: |
29 Jan 2008 06:34:46 PM |
| Object: |
Roman Soldiers (Rather Than Jews) Executed (Killed) Yeshua |
[randy]
The way I interpret the passage (Zechariah) is that the
Jews arise out of a state of ignorance in which they had
viewed the Messiah as a failed Messiah, one who they
had rejected and killed.
[Shmuel] What you fail to acknowledge is that Roman soldiers
(rather than Jews) executed (killed) Yeshua. After one of
these executioners "pricked his side with a lance....", we read,
"For these things happened that the scripture might be fulfilled...
'They (the Romans) shall look at him when they pierced' ".
[John 19.34-37]
The small minority of Roman collaborators (who had "no king
except Caesar" and were distrusted and hated by the majority
of the Jewish people) "plotted to seize and kill Yeshua by stealth"
"for they feared (the majority) of the (Jewish) people" for "look,
the (Jewish) world has gone after him". [Matt. 26.3-5;
Luke 22. 4-5; John 12.9-19]
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| User: "Nobody Special" |
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| Title: Re: Roman Soldiers (Rather Than Jews) Executed (Killed) Yeshua (not) |
30 Jan 2008 04:10:40 AM |
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"Shmuel Playfair" <SPlayfair> wrote in message
news:479fc633$1$30673$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
[randy]
The way I interpret the passage (Zechariah) is that the Jews arise out of
a state of ignorance in which they had viewed the Messiah as a failed
Messiah, one who they had rejected and killed.
[Shmuel] What you fail to acknowledge is that Roman soldiers (rather than
Jews) executed (killed) Yeshua. After one of
these executioners "pricked his side with a lance....", we read, "For
these things happened that the scripture might be fulfilled...
'They (the Romans) shall look at him when they pierced' ". [John
19.34-37]
The small minority of Roman collaborators (who had "no king
except Caesar" and were distrusted and hated by the majority of the Jewish
people) "plotted to seize and kill Yeshua by stealth" "for they feared
(the majority) of the (Jewish) people" for "look, the (Jewish) world has
gone after him". [Matt. 26.3-5; Luke 22. 4-5; John 12.9-19]
====================================
John 10:18 (KJV) No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself.
I have
power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This
commandment have I received of my Father.
Before you pontificate, you've gotta read the book.
nobody special
====================================
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Roman Soldiers (Rather Than Jews) Executed (Killed) Yeshua (not) |
30 Jan 2008 06:57:08 AM |
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On Jan 30, 2:10=A0am, "Nobody Special" <nobody_spec...@comcast.net>
wrote:
"Shmuel Playfair" <SPlayfair> wrote in message
news:479fc633$1$30673$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
[randy]
The way I interpret the passage (Zechariah) is that the Jews arise out =
of
a state of ignorance in which they had viewed the Messiah as a failed
Messiah, one who they had rejected and killed.
[Shmuel] =A0What you fail to acknowledge is that Roman soldiers (rather =
than
Jews) executed (killed) Yeshua. =A0After one of
these executioners "pricked his side with a lance....", we read, "For
these things happened that the scripture might be fulfilled...
'They (the Romans) shall look at him when they pierced' ". =A0[John
19.34-37]
The small minority of Roman collaborators (who had "no king
except Caesar" and were distrusted and hated by the majority of the Jewi=
sh
people) "plotted to seize and kill Yeshua by stealth" "for they feared
(the majority) of the (Jewish) people" for "look, the (Jewish) world has=
gone after him". =A0 [Matt. 26.3-5; Luke 22. 4-5; John 12.9-19]
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=A0 =A0 =A0John 10:18 (KJV) No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of=
myself.
I have
=A0 =A0 =A0 power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This
=A0 =A0 =A0 commandment have I received of my Father.
=A0 =A0 =A0 Before you pontificate, you've gotta read the book.
No, you are giving a false interpretation, as always. No one could
kill Jesus if it were not the Will of G-D, but it became the Will of G-
D only because the Jews had rejected Jesus as their Messiah. If they
had not rejected Him, then and only then would He be put to the test
of whether He was truly the Jewish Messiah. He had given enough
reason, for the purpose of the test, for the Jews to believe in Him.
It was the free will of the Jews, given to them in Genesis, that was
also being tested. They failed miserably, and their failure may very
well signal the failure of the human race. That free will choice was
the greatest event in human history, and the most disastrous. G-D is
coming to the conclusion of Sartre: man is a useless passion.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Roman Soldiers (Rather Than Jews) Executed (Killed) Yeshua |
29 Jan 2008 07:54:59 PM |
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On Jan 29, 4:34=A0pm, "Shmuel Playfair" <SPlayfair> wrote:
[randy]
The way I interpret the passage (Zechariah) is that the
Jews arise out of a state of ignorance in which they had
viewed the Messiah as a failed Messiah, one who they
had rejected and killed.
[Shmuel] =A0What you fail to acknowledge is that Roman soldiers
(rather than Jews) executed (killed) Yeshua. =A0After one of
these executioners "pricked his side with a lance....", we read,
"For these things happened that the scripture might be fulfilled...
'They (the Romans) shall look at him when they pierced' ". =A0
[John 19.34-37] =A0
The small minority of Roman collaborators (who had "no king
except Caesar" and were distrusted and hated by the majority
of the Jewish people) "plotted to seize and kill Yeshua by stealth"
"for they feared (the majority) of the (Jewish) people" for "look,
the (Jewish) world has gone after him". =A0 [Matt. 26.3-5;
Luke 22. 4-5; John 12.9-19]
Nice attempt to rewrite history, Orwellian style.
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| User: "Linda Lee" |
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| Title: Re: Roman Soldiers (Rather Than Jews) Executed (Killed) Yeshua |
31 Jan 2008 01:53:12 AM |
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On Jan 29, 7:34=A0pm, "Shmuel Playfair" <SPlayfair> wrote:
[randy]
The way I interpret the passage (Zechariah) is that the
Jews arise out of a state of ignorance in which they had
viewed the Messiah as a failed Messiah, one who they
had rejected and killed.
[Shmuel] =A0What you fail to acknowledge is that Roman soldiers
(rather than Jews) executed (killed) Yeshua. =A0After one of
these executioners "pricked his side with a lance....", we read,
"For these things happened that the scripture might be fulfilled...
'They (the Romans) shall look at him when they pierced' ". =A0
[John 19.34-37] =A0
The small minority of Roman collaborators (who had "no king
except Caesar" and were distrusted and hated by the majority
of the Jewish people) "plotted to seize and kill Yeshua by stealth"
"for they feared (the majority) of the (Jewish) people" for "look,
the (Jewish) world has gone after him". =A0 [Matt. 26.3-5;
Luke 22. 4-5; John 12.9-19]
The prophecy in the Scriptures that would be fulfilled (because of
events occurring at the death of the Messiah) was the following one:
Zech. 12:10 "And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the
inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications:
and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall
mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in
bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn."
This verse cannot refer to the Romans who pierced the Messiah, as the
Romans would have no reason to mourn for him 'as one mourns bitterly
for his firstborn son'; additionally. this verse in Zechariah is
addressed to the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem, NOT
the Gentiles.
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| User: "Dannyil" |
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| Title: Re: Roman Soldiers (Rather Than Jews) Executed (Killed) Yeshua |
31 Jan 2008 11:08:54 AM |
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Does this mean now the conclusion is that
my ancestors killed your deity....
Nice one. Even though its not historical.
Not a single NT document is an eyewitness to the events.
Josephus is, and yet, everyone uses the NT, and ignores Josephus.
Go Figure....
* Everyone agrees that Pilate was in control
* Everyone agrees that Jesus (if he even existed) was crucified.
* Everyone agrees that this is a Roman practice and has nothing to do
with Jews.
We don't know who this alleged 'crowd' was composed of. For all you
know, it could have been
comprised of a whole bunch of Samaritans and Sadducees. The Sadducees
were a minority sect,
involved in the Temple and Political struggle in the country, and were
focused on money and power.
The Samaritans weren't even Jewish.
You see from Acts 5:34-35 that Gamliel did not want anyone killed. I
see that the head of the Sanhedrin
was not interested in killing anyone. Although later in Acts, the
Sanhedrin is blamed for stoning people.
this is again not historical the Sanhedrin had not power to execute,
and second of all why didn't anyone bring
witnesses against the false witnesses. etc....
Basically all Jews are now murderers. and they killed Jesus and a
whole bunch of other holy people. Then you wonder why over the
centuries, how many Jews have been killed, maimed and slaughtered over
this. You see that The Early Church fathers, Luther, Goebbels etc.
didn't need much material to base his lies on about the Jew, its all
written in the NT.
Danny
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| User: "Linda Lee" |
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| Title: Re: Roman Soldiers (Rather Than Jews) Executed (Killed) Yeshua |
31 Jan 2008 04:52:05 PM |
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On Jan 31, 12:08 pm, Dannyil <Freed.Des...@gmail.com> wrote:
Does this mean now the conclusion is that
my ancestors killed your deity....
Nice one. Even though its not historical.
Not a single NT document is an eyewitness to the events.
Josephus is, and yet, everyone uses the NT, and ignores Josephus.
Go Figure....
* Everyone agrees that Pilate was in control
* Everyone agrees that Jesus (if he even existed) was crucified.
* Everyone agrees that this is a Roman practice and has nothing to do
with Jews.
We don't know who this alleged 'crowd' was composed of. For all you
know, it could have been
comprised of a whole bunch of Samaritans and Sadducees. The Sadducees
were a minority sect,
involved in the Temple and Political struggle in the country, and were
focused on money and power.
The Samaritans weren't even Jewish.
You see from Acts 5:34-35 that Gamliel did not want anyone killed.
He was talking about the apostles following the crucifixion of the
Messiah (not the Messiah), and Gamliel warned there could be riotous
consequences if they all killed the apostles.
I
see that the head of the Sanhedrin
was not interested in killing anyone. Although later in Acts, the
Sanhedrin is blamed for stoning people.
this is again not historical the Sanhedrin had not power to execute,
and second of all why didn't anyone bring
witnesses against the false witnesses. etc....
Basically all Jews are now murderers. and they killed Jesus and a
whole bunch of other holy people. Then you wonder why over the
centuries, how many Jews have been killed, maimed and slaughtered over
this. You see that The Early Church fathers, Luther, Goebbels etc.
didn't need much material to base his lies on about the Jew, its all
written in the NT.
Ignorant people narrow it down to that. The whole message of the New
Testament is the crucifixion of the Saviour had to happen and that God
intended it to happen the way it is written, for the purpose of
everyone's good, not so anyone would be blamed. People who do so, hate
the Jews because they're jealous - pure and simple. Christians want to
'be Israel' because the Scriptures say Israel is God's wife and God's
firstborn, and non-Christians want to be Israel too, that is why the
Koran allegedly worships the same God, but claims the firstborn of
Isaac should get all of God's blessings. Don't let it get you down;
jealousy is hard to bear, but you're still in a better position than
us Gentiles.
Danny
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| User: "DEE" |
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| Title: Re: Roman Soldiers (Rather Than Jews) Executed (Killed) Yeshua |
31 Jan 2008 05:24:16 PM |
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On Jan 31, 4:52 pm, Linda Lee <lindagirl...@juno.com> wrote:
On Jan 31, 12:08 pm, Dannyil <Freed.Des...@gmail.com> wrote:
Does this mean now the conclusion is that
my ancestors killed your deity....
Nice one. Even though its not historical.
Not a single NT document is an eyewitness to the events.
Josephus is, and yet, everyone uses the NT, and ignores Josephus.
Go Figure....
* Everyone agrees that Pilate was in control
* Everyone agrees that Jesus (if he even existed) was crucified.
* Everyone agrees that this is a Roman practice and has nothing to do
with Jews.
We don't know who this alleged 'crowd' was composed of. For all you
know, it could have been
comprised of a whole bunch of Samaritans and Sadducees. The Sadducees
were a minority sect,
involved in the Temple and Political struggle in the country, and were
focused on money and power.
The Samaritans weren't even Jewish.
You see from Acts 5:34-35 that Gamliel did not want anyone killed.
He was talking about the apostles following the crucifixion of the
Messiah (not the Messiah), and Gamliel warned there could be riotous
consequences if they all killed the apostles.
I
see that the head of the Sanhedrin
was not interested in killing anyone. Although later in Acts, the
Sanhedrin is blamed for stoning people.
this is again not historical the Sanhedrin had not power to execute,
and second of all why didn't anyone bring
witnesses against the false witnesses. etc....
Basically all Jews are now murderers. and they killed Jesus and a
whole bunch of other holy people. Then you wonder why over the
centuries, how many Jews have been killed, maimed and slaughtered over
this. You see that The Early Church fathers, Luther, Goebbels etc.
didn't need much material to base his lies on about the Jew, its all
written in the NT.
Stalin persecuted Jews.Tell me, what part of the New testament
contains these things?
"They were consigned to humiliation and wretchedness. They brought the
wrath of God upon themselves, and this because they used to deny God's
signs and kill His Prophets unjustly and because they disobeyed and
were transgressors" (Sura 2:61).
Jews try to introduce corruption (5:64),
disobedient (5:78)
enemies of Allah, the Prophet and the angels (2:97=AD98).
Ignorant people narrow it down to that. The whole message of the New
Testament is the crucifixion of the Saviour had to happen and that God
intended it to happen the way it is written, for the purpose of
everyone's good, not so anyone would be blamed.
Galatians 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for
you are all one in Christ Jesus.
People who do so, hate
the Jews because they're jealous - pure and simple. Christians want to
'be Israel' because the Scriptures say Israel is God's wife and God's
firstborn, and non-Christians want to be Israel too, that is why the
Koran allegedly worships the same God, but claims the firstborn of
Isaac should get all of God's blessings. Don't let it get you down;
jealousy is hard to bear, but you're still in a better position than
us Gentiles.
Nobody is in any better position than anyone else unless they dont
actually believe in the Lord.
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| User: "Linda Lee" |
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| Title: Re: Roman Soldiers (Rather Than Jews) Executed (Killed) Yeshua |
31 Jan 2008 07:29:50 PM |
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On Jan 31, 6:24 pm, DEE <adravi...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Jan 31, 4:52 pm,LindaLee<lindagirl...@juno.com> wrote:
On Jan 31, 12:08 pm, Dannyil <Freed.Des...@gmail.com> wrote:
Does this mean now the conclusion is that
my ancestors killed your deity....
Nice one. Even though its not historical.
Not a single NT document is an eyewitness to the events.
Josephus is, and yet, everyone uses the NT, and ignores Josephus.
Go Figure....
* Everyone agrees that Pilate was in control
* Everyone agrees that Jesus (if he even existed) was crucified.
* Everyone agrees that this is a Roman practice and has nothing to do
with Jews.
We don't know who this alleged 'crowd' was composed of. For all you
know, it could have been
comprised of a whole bunch of Samaritans and Sadducees. The Sadducees=
were a minority sect,
involved in the Temple and Political struggle in the country, and were=
focused on money and power.
The Samaritans weren't even Jewish.
You see from Acts 5:34-35 that Gamliel did not want anyone killed.
He was talking about the apostles following the crucifixion of the
Messiah (not the Messiah), and Gamliel warned there could be riotous
consequences if they all killed the apostles.
I
see that the head of the Sanhedrin
was not interested in killing anyone. Although later in Acts, the
Sanhedrin is blamed for stoning people.
this is again not historical the Sanhedrin had not power to execute,
and second of all why didn't anyone bring
witnesses against the false witnesses. etc....
Basically all Jews are now murderers. and they killed Jesus and a
whole bunch of other holy people. Then you wonder why over the
centuries, how many Jews have been killed, maimed and slaughtered over=
this. You see that The Early Church fathers, Luther, Goebbels etc.
didn't need much material to base his lies on about the Jew, its all
written in the NT.
Stalin persecuted Jews.
Your point?
Tell me, what part of the New testament
contains these things?
"They were consigned to humiliation and wretchedness. They brought the
wrath of God upon themselves, and this because they used to deny God's
signs and kill His Prophets unjustly and because they disobeyed and
were transgressors" (Sura 2:61).
Jews try to introduce corruption (5:64),
disobedient (5:78)
enemies of Allah, the Prophet and the angels (2:97=AD98).
Do not recognize anything in there except that Allah is the Muslim's
name for their god whom they allege is the God of Abraham, Isaac, and
Jacob. Thanks for posting this because I was just wondering how
condemning the Koran must be to the Jews, since they are so violently
jealous of Isaac's favor with God. However, God often accused the
Israelites of disobedience (but always forgave them), and the Messiah
said their fathers had killed the prophets. Matt. 23:31 - "Wherefore
ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them
which killed the prophets."
So what is your point? You just seem to be throwing out random, rather
condemning thoughts.
The unchanging God said of the children of Abraham: Gen 12:3 - "And I
will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and
in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed."
Ignorant people narrow it down to that. The whole message of the New
Testament is the crucifixion of the Saviour had to happen and that God
intended it to happen the way it is written, for the purpose of
everyone's good, not so anyone would be blamed.
Galatians 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for
you are all one in Christ Jesus.
Paul was a false apostle, so his words mean nothing. Post something
from the Messiah or one of the apostles he chose during his ministry.
People who do so, hate
the Jews because they're jealous - pure and simple. Christians want to
'be Israel' because the Scriptures say Israel is God's wife and God's
firstborn, and non-Christians want to be Israel too, that is why the
Koran allegedly worships the same God, but claims the firstborn of
Isaac should get all of God's blessings. Don't let it get you down;
jealousy is hard to bear, but you're still in a better position than
us Gentiles.
Nobody is in any better position than anyone else unless they dont
actually believe in the Lord.
Ps. 135:4 "For the LORD hath chosen Jacob unto himself, and Israel for
his peculiar treasure."
Gee, Dee, I'd like to be a treasure peculiar to God Himself.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Roman Soldiers (Rather Than Jews) Executed (Killed) Yeshua |
31 Jan 2008 07:34:05 PM |
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On Jan 31, 5:29=A0pm, Linda Lee <lindagirl...@juno.com> wrote:
Ps. 135:4 "For the LORD hath chosen Jacob unto himself, and Israel for
his peculiar treasure."
Damn peculiar!
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| User: "Linda Lee" |
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| Title: Re: Roman Soldiers (Rather Than Jews) Executed (Killed) Yeshua |
31 Jan 2008 07:54:46 PM |
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On Jan 31, 8:34 pm, wrote:
On Jan 31, 5:29 pm,LindaLee<lindagirl...@juno.com> wrote:
Ps. 135:4 "For the LORD hath chosen Jacob unto himself, and Israel for
his peculiar treasure."
Damn peculiar!
Rather blessedly peculiar.
The word here translated 'peculiar' means "to shut up; wealth (as
closely shut up)".
The same word is translated 'peculiar' here: Deut. 14:2 "For thou art
a holy people unto the LORD thy God, and the LORD hath chosen thee to
be a peculiar people unto himself, above all the nations that are upon
the earth."
Peculiar does not mean odd in this instance, it means belonging
exclusively to some person, group, or thing, in this case, belonging
to God.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Roman Soldiers (Rather Than Jews) Executed (Killed) Yeshua |
31 Jan 2008 05:52:47 PM |
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On Jan 31, 5:08=A0pm, Dannyil <Freed.Des...@gmail.com> wrote:
Does this mean now the conclusion is that my ancestors killed your deity..=
...
Sounds like someone is spoiling for a fight...
Not a single NT document is an eyewitness to the events.Josephus is, and y=
et, everyone
uses the NT, and ignoresJosephus. Go Figure....
Josephus, writing ca. 93 AD, is an eyewitness? The NT documents,
written by eyewitnesses and their helpers, is not?
I've no idea how you made yourself state that white is black and black
is white, or why, but it seems very strange to me.
* Everyone agrees that Pilate was in control
* Everyone agrees that Jesus (if he even existed) was crucified.
* Everyone agrees that this is a Roman practice and has nothing to do with=
Jews.
Everyone agrees that the Jewish leadership dunnit.
Basically all Jews are now murderers. =A0
That's what the Palestinians say.
and they killed Jesus and a whole bunch of other holy people. =A0Then you =
wonder why over the
centuries, how many Jews have been killed, maimed and slaughtered over
this. =A0
At the moment, Jews are getting killed, maimed and slaughtered by
people that they are trying to oppress, or least that's what a lot of
people say. For some reason you want us to be anti-Jewish? Why?
If you succeed, given that Christian support is the mainstay of
Israel, you're all very likely to die. Do you think the Arabs will
give a damn about any of this?
Stop stirring up anti-semitism. Live and let live.
All the best,
Roger Pearse
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| User: "Linda Lee" |
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| Title: Re: Roman Soldiers (Rather Than Jews) Executed (Killed) Yeshua |
31 Jan 2008 07:37:11 PM |
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On Jan 31, 6:52 pm, "roger.pea...@googlemail.com"
<roger.pea...@googlemail.com> wrote:
On Jan 31, 5:08 pm, Dannyil <Freed.Des...@gmail.com> wrote:
Does this mean now the conclusion is that my ancestors killed your deity....
Sounds like someone is spoiling for a fight...
Not a single NT document is an eyewitness to the events.Josephus is, and yet, everyone
uses the NT, and ignoresJosephus. Go Figure....
Josephus, writing ca. 93 AD, is an eyewitness? The NT documents,
written by eyewitnesses and their helpers, is not?
I've no idea how you made yourself state that white is black and black
is white, or why, but it seems very strange to me.
* Everyone agrees that Pilate was in control
* Everyone agrees that Jesus (if he even existed) was crucified.
* Everyone agrees that this is a Roman practice and has nothing to do with Jews.
Everyone agrees that the Jewish leadership dunnit.
Basically all Jews are now murderers.
That's what the Palestinians say.
and they killed Jesus and a whole bunch of other holy people. Then you wonder why over the
centuries, how many Jews have been killed, maimed and slaughtered over
this.
At the moment, Jews are getting killed, maimed and slaughtered by
people that they are trying to oppress, or least that's what a lot of
people say. For some reason you want us to be anti-Jewish? Why?
If you succeed, given that Christian support is the mainstay of
Israel, you're all very likely to die. Do you think the Arabs will
give a damn about any of this?
Stop stirring up anti-semitism. Live and let live.
All the best,
Roger Pearse
Your post makes no sense in relation to the Scriptures, Roger, nor
does the person you're responding to appear to be stirring up anti-
semitism; that seems to be your intent at the moment. I find it very
odd that you view Israel as trying to oppress anyone when those you
pity felt the necessity to build the Dome of the Rock in the one
little spot on Earth that is the site where the holy temple stood.
That is just squatting, asking for trouble, and opposing God Himself.
I don't believe there is any evidence Abraham ascended to heaven from
that spot, as Mohammed wasn't yet alive; that's just an excuse.
Gen 12:2-3 And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless
thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing: And I
will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and
in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Roman Soldiers (Rather Than Jews) Executed (Killed) Yeshua |
01 Feb 2008 04:51:55 AM |
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On Feb 1, 1:37=A0am, Linda Lee <lindagirl...@juno.com> wrote:
On Jan 31, 6:52 pm, "roger.pea...@googlemail.com"
<roger.pea...@googlemail.com> wrote:
On Jan 31, 5:08 pm, Dannyil <Freed.Des...@gmail.com> wrote:
Does this mean now the conclusion is that my ancestors killed your dei=
ty....
Sounds like someone is spoiling for a fight...
Not a single NT document is an eyewitness to the events.Josephus is, a=
nd yet, everyone
uses the NT, and ignoresJosephus. Go Figure....
Josephus, writing ca. 93 AD, is an eyewitness? =A0The NT documents,
written by eyewitnesses and their helpers, is not?
I've no idea how you made yourself state that white is black and black
is white, or why, but it seems very strange to me.
* Everyone agrees that Pilate was in control
* Everyone agrees that Jesus (if he even existed) was crucified.
* Everyone agrees that this is a Roman practice and has nothing to do =
with Jews.
Everyone agrees that the Jewish leadership dunnit.
Basically all Jews are now murderers.
That's what the Palestinians say.
and they killed Jesus and a whole bunch of other holy people. =A0Then =
you wonder why over the
centuries, how many Jews have been killed, maimed and slaughtered over=
this.
At the moment, Jews are getting killed, maimed and slaughtered by
people that they are trying to oppress, or least that's what a lot of
people say. =A0For some reason you want us to be anti-Jewish? =A0Why?
If you succeed, given that Christian support is the mainstay of
Israel, you're all very likely to die. =A0Do you think the Arabs will
give a damn about any of this?
Stop stirring up anti-semitism. Live and let live.
Your post makes no sense in relation to the Scriptures, Roger,
It has no relationship to the scriptures, so I'm not sure what you
think I'm saying.
nor does the person you're responding to appear to be stirring up anti-
semitism; that seems to be your intent at the moment.
You haven't read carefully. He's trying to stick a reverse blood-
libel on the Christians, and to demonise them all as Jew-killers.
That sounds pretty likely to stir up hate to me!
I find it very odd that you view Israel as trying to oppress anyone when t=
hose you
pity felt the necessity to build the Dome of the Rock in the one
little spot on Earth that is the site where the holy temple stood.
No, I agree. I think the Israelis have been far too tolerant of the
Arab attempts to overthrow their state (which is what this intifada is
about, let's face it). Israel has a right to exist, and to defend
itself.
I merely wrote as I did because of the obscene over-statements by that
Jewish racist, to push back on some of his statements. Incidentally I
think that the same motivation -- to undermine the "Jews can't be
criticised" convention -- lies at the root of much support for the
Arabs.
All the best,
Roger Pearse
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| User: "Linda Lee" |
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| Title: Re: Roman Soldiers (Rather Than Jews) Executed (Killed) Yeshua |
01 Feb 2008 12:38:36 PM |
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On Feb 1, 5:51 am, "roger.pea...@googlemail.com"
<roger.pea...@googlemail.com> wrote:
On Feb 1, 1:37 am, Linda Lee <lindagirl...@juno.com> wrote:
On Jan 31, 6:52 pm, "roger.pea...@googlemail.com"
<roger.pea...@googlemail.com> wrote:
On Jan 31, 5:08 pm, Dannyil <Freed.Des...@gmail.com> wrote:
Does this mean now the conclusion is that my ancestors killed your deity....
Sounds like someone is spoiling for a fight...
Not a single NT document is an eyewitness to the events.Josephus is, and yet, everyone
uses the NT, and ignoresJosephus. Go Figure....
Josephus, writing ca. 93 AD, is an eyewitness? The NT documents,
written by eyewitnesses and their helpers, is not?
I've no idea how you made yourself state that white is black and black
is white, or why, but it seems very strange to me.
* Everyone agrees that Pilate was in control
* Everyone agrees that Jesus (if he even existed) was crucified.
* Everyone agrees that this is a Roman practice and has nothing to do with Jews.
Everyone agrees that the Jewish leadership dunnit.
Basically all Jews are now murderers.
That's what the Palestinians say.
and they killed Jesus and a whole bunch of other holy people. Then you wonder why over the
centuries, how many Jews have been killed, maimed and slaughtered over
this.
At the moment, Jews are getting killed, maimed and slaughtered by
people that they are trying to oppress, or least that's what a lot of
people say. For some reason you want us to be anti-Jewish? Why?
If you succeed, given that Christian support is the mainstay of
Israel, you're all very likely to die. Do you think the Arabs will
give a damn about any of this?
Stop stirring up anti-semitism. Live and let live.
Your post makes no sense in relation to the Scriptures, Roger,
It has no relationship to the scriptures, so I'm not sure what you
think I'm saying.
I was talking about the Promised Land God promised them, which was to
be restored someday according to the Scriptures.
nor does the person you're responding to appear to be stirring up anti-
semitism; that seems to be your intent at the moment.
You haven't read carefully. He's trying to stick a reverse blood-
libel on the Christians, and to demonise them all as Jew-killers.
That sounds pretty likely to stir up hate to me!
He did sound rather paranoid, but given their history, it is
understandable. Martin Luther in his later years did become
antisemitic and there are still Christian Lutheran churches.
I find it very odd that you view Israel as trying to oppress anyone when those you
pity felt the necessity to build the Dome of the Rock in the one
little spot on Earth that is the site where the holy temple stood.
No, I agree. I think the Israelis have been far too tolerant of the
Arab attempts to overthrow their state (which is what this intifada is
about, let's face it). Israel has a right to exist, and to defend
itself.
I merely wrote as I did because of the obscene over-statements by that
Jewish racist, to push back on some of his statements. Incidentally I
think that the same motivation -- to undermine the "Jews can't be
criticised" convention -- lies at the root of much support for the
Arabs.
All the best,
Roger Pearse
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| User: "Pastor Dave" |
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| Title: Re: Roman Soldiers (Rather Than Jews) Executed (Killed) Yeshua |
01 Feb 2008 09:41:27 AM |
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On Fri, 1 Feb 2008 02:51:55 -0800 (PST),
"roger.pearse@googlemail.com" <roger.pearse@googlemail.com>
spake thusly:
On Feb 1, 1:37 am, Linda Lee <lindagirl...@juno.com> wrote:
I find it very odd that you view Israel as trying to oppress
anyone when those you pity felt the necessity to build the
Dome of the Rock in the one little spot on Earth that is
the site where the holy temple stood.
No, I agree. I think the Israelis have been far too tolerant
of the Arab attempts to overthrow their state (which is what
this intifada is about, let's face it). Israel has a right to exist,
and to defend itself.
Has anyone considered the fact that God wants it this way?
He had the temple destroyed and the Mosaic system is gone.
The Law is dead and was "taken out of the way" at the cross.
So the dome on that rock is God's will.
Why do "Christians" claim that what God wants, is to have
the Mosaic institution restarted and for Jews to go to
Heaven by the Law, while denying Christ?!
--
O
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"Flowers never emit so sweet and strong a fragrance
as before a storm. When a storm approaches thee,
be as fragrant as a sweet-smelling flower."
-Jean Paul Richter
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| User: "Linda Lee" |
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| Title: Re: Roman Soldiers (Rather Than Jews) Executed (Killed) Yeshua |
01 Feb 2008 12:43:38 PM |
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On Feb 1, 10:41 am, Pastor Dave <ananias917_@_gmail.com> wrote:
On Fri, 1 Feb 2008 02:51:55 -0800 (PST),
"roger.pea...@googlemail.com" <roger.pea...@googlemail.com>
spake thusly:
On Feb 1, 1:37 am, Linda Lee <lindagirl...@juno.com> wrote:
I find it very odd that you view Israel as trying to oppress
anyone when those you pity felt the necessity to build the
Dome of the Rock in the one little spot on Earth that is
the site where the holy temple stood.
No, I agree. I think the Israelis have been far too tolerant
of the Arab attempts to overthrow their state (which is what
this intifada is about, let's face it). Israel has a right to exist,
and to defend itself.
Has anyone considered the fact that God wants it this way?
He had the temple destroyed and the Mosaic system is gone.
The Law is dead and was "taken out of the way" at the cross.
So the dome on that rock is God's will.
Concerning the location of the Dome of the Rock, God must 'want it
that way' for now anyway or it wouldn't be.
Why do "Christians" claim that what God wants, is to have
the Mosaic institution restarted and for Jews to go to
Heaven by the Law, while denying Christ?!
Neither Roger nor I said anything like that. You're jumping to
conclusions. And anytime a person uses the term "all ---", they're in
error. In other words, 'all Christians' is wrong and those ideas you
cite above certainly don't apply to me. You're Christian so your
allegation includes you.
--
O
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"Flowers never emit so sweet and strong a fragrance
as before a storm. When a storm approaches thee,
be as fragrant as a sweet-smelling flower."
-Jean Paul Richter
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| User: "Pastor Dave" |
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| Title: Re: Roman Soldiers (Rather Than Jews) Executed (Killed) Yeshua |
31 Jan 2008 06:28:03 PM |
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On Thu, 31 Jan 2008 15:52:47 -0800 (PST),
"roger.pearse@googlemail.com" <roger.pearse@googlemail.com>
spake thusly:
On Jan 31, 5:08 pm, Dannyil <Freed.Des...@gmail.com> wrote:
Does this mean now the conclusion is that
my ancestors killed your deity....
Sounds like someone is spoiling for a fight...
This is why I kill filed him. He sets up a straw man
and then when you reveal it as such, he claims that
you're trying to dodge the issue.
Not a single NT document is an eyewitness to the events.
Josephus is, and yet, everyone uses the NT, and ignores
Josephus. Go Figure....
Josephus, writing ca. 93 AD, is an eyewitness?
The NT documents, written by eyewitnesses
and their helpers, is not?
Your timing is off. And he was an eyewitness.
He was there, if you are discussing the Jewish War.
Even the NT documents were written prior to that,
regardless of majority opinion that tries to claim
otherwise, based on Irenaeus, whose statement
is ambiguous at best and who also thought that
Jesus was crucified at around the age of 50!
The man is right about people ignoring Josephus,
only when he doesn't say what they want to hear,
yet quote him whenever they think he does say
what they need him to. It's hypocritical.
And no, I am not defending this poster. I think
he's out to mess with people. I just call each
individual statement as I see it, that's all. :)
* Everyone agrees that Pilate was in control
* Everyone agrees that Jesus (if he even existed)
was crucified.
* Everyone agrees that this is a Roman practice
and has nothing to do with Jews.
Everyone agrees that the Jewish leadership dunnit.
The Bible says that it was the Jews who killed Christ.
That is a fact and Pilate wanted to let Him go.
For anyone interested, please see Acts 5:30; 10:39
and John 19:12-16.
Basically all Jews are now murderers.
That's what the Palestinians say.
Good for them. Unlike most people, I am not
foolish enough to try to mix the two events.
In other words, they killed Jesus. But that
does not mean that:
1) They are guilty in the "Palestine" issue.
2) That we should hate Jews.
Each person will be judged on one thing:
Whether or not they have Christ as Lord
and Saviour in their lives. That's it!
and they killed Jesus and a whole bunch of
other holy people. Then you wonder why
over the centuries, how many Jews have been
killed, maimed and slaughtered over this.
At the moment, Jews are getting killed, maimed
and slaughtered by people that they are trying to
oppress, or least that's what a lot of people say.
For some reason you want us to be anti-Jewish?
Why?
So now "a lot of people say so" is proof?
And of course, you wouldn't be counting
only those people who say that, while
ignoring the rest who say the opposite,
now would you? :)
If you succeed, given that Christian support is
the mainstay of Israel, you're all very likely to die.
Do you think the Arabs will give a damn about
any of this?
I don't "support the Jews", nor do I argue against them.
I simply recognize the Biblical fact that they are no longer
"God's chosen people". According to Scripture, that is
the church; the body of believers. A Jew who does not
accept Christ, will be condemned when he/she stands
before God, period, end of story!
Stop stirring up anti-semitism. Live and let live.
How is it "Anti-Semitism" to say what he is saying?
In fact, I don't even believe that saying that the Jews
are at fault in the current conflict is Anti-Semitism
and frankly, I think that accusation is a distraction
and it is one that the Christians are guilty of promoting!
I.e., To Christians today, to say that a Jew does anything
wrong, is claimed to be Anti-Semitism and in reality,
that is just a distraction by those people, to avoid having
to prove their case!
Christians today don't worship God as much as they do
Jews. In fact, Dispensationalists actually believe that
Jews will build a third temple. The problem with this
is that the temple has only one purpose and that is for
animal sacrifices for sins, which denies the cross. But
Christians today actually claim that Jesus will be sitting
on a throne in this temple, applauding Jews who deny
Him and who come in there to perform animal sacrifices.
WHAT HYPOCRISY!!! And how is it that they would be
able to deny Christ, while having to go into this supposed
"third temple" performing animal sacrifices for their sins,
while He's sitting on a throne in it?!
Futurism/Dispensationalism, is a stupid, self-contradictory
doctrine, that pits Scripture against itself at every turn!
--
O
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Is single parenting something that should be chosen?
While I don't doubt that a single parent can raise
a child, I don't think single parenting gives that
child an advantage.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Roman Soldiers (Rather Than Jews) Executed (Killed) Yeshua |
01 Feb 2008 04:47:17 AM |
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On Feb 1, 12:28=A0am, Pastor Dave <ananias917_@_gmail.com> wrote:
On Thu, 31 Jan 2008 15:52:47 -0800 (PST),
"roger.pea...@googlemail.com" <roger.pea...@googlemail.com>
spake thusly:
On Jan 31, 5:08=A0pm, Dannyil <Freed.Des...@gmail.com> wrote:
Does this mean now the conclusion is that
my ancestors killed your deity....
Sounds like someone is spoiling for a fight...
This is why I kill filed him. =A0He sets up a straw man
and then when you reveal it as such, he claims that
you're trying to dodge the issue.
I'm sorry to hear it. If so, that's the sort of wild-west behaviour
that will get us all a 'regulated' (i.e. censored) internet one day.
The number of people desperate to 'protect' us all (i.e. gain control)
seems to grow every day.
Not a single NT document is an eyewitness to the events.
Josephus is, and yet, everyone uses the NT, and ignores
Josephus. =A0Go Figure....
Josephus, writing ca. 93 AD, is an eyewitness?
The NT documents, written by eyewitnesses
and their helpers, is not?
Your timing is off. =A0And he was an eyewitness.
He was there, if you are discussing the Jewish War.
Ah, sorry, I misunderstood.
And no, I am not defending this poster. =A0I think
he's out to mess with people. =A0I just call each
individual statement as I see it, that's all. :)
I do the same, and I appreciate the clarification as to motive.
* Everyone agrees that Pilate was in control
* Everyone agrees that Jesus (if he even existed)
=A0 =A0was crucified.
* Everyone agrees that this is a Roman practice
=A0 =A0and has nothing to do with Jews.
Everyone agrees that the Jewish leadership dunnit.
The Bible says that it was the Jews who killed Christ.
That is a fact and Pilate wanted to let Him go.
For anyone interested, please see Acts 5:30; 10:39
and John 19:12-16.
Yes, but then ancient texts don't mean 'every member of a race' when
they refer to 'the Greeks' or 'the Romans', any more than we do when
we're discussing the UN and say "the Cubans have filed a motion
criticising western states". We need to make sure we know what is
being said.
Basically all Jews are now murderers. =A0
That's what the Palestinians say.
Good for them. =A0Unlike most people, I am not
foolish enough to try to mix the two events.
Yes, I got a little irritated by the poster at this point and shoved
his self-serving comment back. Everyone can claim to be a 'victim'
and all such self-appointed victims need smacking down.
In other words, they killed Jesus. =A0But that
does not mean that:
1) They are guilty in the "Palestine" issue.
Not a bit. The Israelis are merely trying to defend themselves
against incessant Arab attacks.
2) That we should hate Jews.
Agreed. Although if they start attacking us, there is no reason not
to (as with any other group of people to which I do not belong). I
detest this idea of 'privileged groups' about whom no comment may be
made other than in terms of warmest approval, whoever the ever-
lengthening list of beneficiaries may be.
and they killed Jesus and a whole bunch of
other holy people. =A0Then you wonder why
over the centuries, how many Jews have been
killed, maimed and slaughtered over this. =A0
At the moment, Jews are getting killed, maimed
and slaughtered by people that they are trying to
oppress, or least that's what a lot of people say.
For some reason you want us to be anti-Jewish?
Why?
So now "a lot of people say so" is proof?
Not a bit. I merely pushed his comment back.
And of course, you wouldn't be counting
only those people who say that, while
ignoring the rest who say the opposite,
now would you? :)
Certainly would.
If you succeed, given that Christian support is
the mainstay of Israel, you're all very likely to die.
Do you think the Arabs will give a damn about
any of this?
I don't "support the Jews", nor do I argue against them.
I simply recognize the Biblical fact that they are no longer
"God's chosen people". =A0According to Scripture, that is
the church; the body of believers. =A0A Jew who does not
accept Christ, will be condemned when he/she stands
before God, period, end of story!
I'm not sure that I have a view on that issue.
Stop stirring up anti-semitism. =A0Live and let live.
How is it "Anti-Semitism" to say what he is saying?
It isn't. It's Jewish racism, directed to try to make others feel
guilty, and therefore makes people think "Stuff those ***** Jews".
In fact, I don't even believe that saying that the Jews
are at fault in the current conflict is Anti-Semitism
and frankly, I think that accusation is a distraction
Agree entirely. Enough of this list of things that we aren't allowed
to say. But as you may have grasped, I don't feel that attacks on
Israel for trying to deal with the Palestinians are reasonable
anyhow.
I.e., To Christians today, to say that a Jew does anything
wrong, is claimed to be Anti-Semitism and in reality,
that is just a distraction by those people, to avoid having
to prove their case!
Agree. It's a trick to silence criticism. It's stopping working, you
notice. Gradually Jews are being moved off the 'privilege' list.
Some of this is merely time and tide; some of it is incredible
foolishness by Jewish groups who have irked everyone else in their
self-seeking.
But once the Jews aren't on the favoured list, Israel will be
destroyed. It's being subjected to the same attacks once directed to
destroy Rhodesia and South Africa. Is that something that we all want
to see?
IMHO the holocaust could never have happened if Israel had existed,
not least because Hitler would simply have expelled his Jews to
Israel. Let the Jews have their own state, and enough of the
frivolous attacks against it.
All the best,
Roger Pearse
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| User: "Pastor Dave" |
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| Title: Re: Roman Soldiers (Rather Than Jews) Executed (Killed) Yeshua |
01 Feb 2008 09:38:24 AM |
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On Fri, 1 Feb 2008 02:47:17 -0800 (PST),
"roger.pearse@googlemail.com" <roger.pearse@googlemail.com>
spake thusly:
On Feb 1, 12:28 am, Pastor Dave
<ananias917_@_gmail.com> wrote:
* Everyone agrees that Pilate was in control
* Everyone agrees that Jesus (if he even existed)
was crucified.
* Everyone agrees that this is a Roman practice
and has nothing to do with Jews.
Everyone agrees that the Jewish leadership dunnit.
The Bible says that it was the Jews who killed Christ.
That is a fact and Pilate wanted to let Him go.
For anyone interested, please see Acts 5:30; 10:39
and John 19:12-16.
Yes, but then ancient texts don't mean 'every member
of a race' when they refer to 'the Greeks' or 'the Romans',
any more than we do when we're discussing the UN
and say "the Cubans have filed a motion criticising
western states". We need to make sure we know
what is being said.
I agree wholeheartedly. But we are talking a majority.
And one has to understand the climate there at that
time. To falsely claim to be the Messiah was not a
thing that was taken lightly and was worthy of death!
Remember, there was "law and religion" to the people.
The law was the religion! :)
2) That we should hate Jews.
Agreed. Although if they start attacking us,
there is no reason not to (as with any other
group of people to which I do not belong).
I detest this idea of 'privileged groups' about
whom no comment may be made other than
in terms of warmest approval, whoever the
ever-lengthening list of beneficiaries may be.
Hate only continues war and makes it impossible
to mend bridges later. Of course, I'm not saying
to bring flowers to the front line either. :)
At the moment, Jews are getting killed, maimed
and slaughtered by people that they are trying to
oppress, or least that's what a lot of people say.
For some reason you want us to be anti-Jewish?
Why?
So now "a lot of people say so" is proof?
Not a bit. I merely pushed his comment back.
See below.
And of course, you wouldn't be counting
only those people who say that, while
ignoring the rest who say the opposite,
now would you? :)
Certainly would.
Then that is you presenting bias as if it is a fact
that all people represent. This statement seems
contradictory to your "not a bit" statement above.
You're presenting only the opinion that you wanted to,
as if it makes for fact and yet saying that you're not
doing that, then admitting that you did. Huh???
If you succeed, given that Christian support is
the mainstay of Israel, you're all very likely to die.
Do you think the Arabs will give a damn about
any of this?
I don't "support the Jews", nor do I argue against them.
I simply recognize the Biblical fact that they are no longer
"God's chosen people". According to Scripture, that is
the church; the body of believers. A Jew who does not
accept Christ, will be condemned when he/she stands
before God, period, end of story!
I'm not sure that I have a view on that issue.
I'm going by what the Bible says. Paul was pretty clear
on this issue. :) Read Galatians 3-4.
Stop stirring up anti-semitism. Live and let live.
How is it "Anti-Semitism" to say what he is saying?
It isn't. It's Jewish racism, directed to try to make
others feel guilty, and therefore makes people think
"Stuff those ***** Jews".
I might be getting confused here as to who is
standing on which side of this issue.
I.e., To Christians today, to say that a Jew does anything
wrong, is claimed to be Anti-Semitism and in reality,
that is just a distraction by those people, to avoid having
to prove their case!
Agree. It's a trick to silence criticism.
Amen!
But once the Jews aren't on the favoured list,
Israel will be destroyed. It's being subjected
to the same attacks once directed to destroy
Rhodesia and South Africa. Is that something
that we all want to see?
Actually, that would be a real feat! A lot of people
aren't aware of just how well armed Israel is and
that they aren't at a stand still with the Palestines
because of lack of ability to wipe them out. They
are simply showing restraint and it's actually
because of the U.S. that they're doing that.
Now we probably ask them to do this, because
most people think that they're holding off
Armageddon, even though that's in the past.
But that is probably why and if that wasn't
the belief, I don't think we'd be so involved.
But anyway, Israel, for example, can fly far more
sorties than us each day, for a longer period of time.
I mention this, because wars are air wars now.
The only detriment they have, is that the size
of their land is so small.
IMHO the holocaust could never have happened
if Israel had existed, not least because Hitler
would simply have expelled his Jews to Israel.
Let the Jews have their own state, and enough
of the frivolous attacks against it.
I agree that Israel is their land.
--
O
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Money isn't everything. But it keeps the kids in touch.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Roman Soldiers (Rather Than Jews) Executed (Killed) Yeshua |
01 Feb 2008 01:58:01 PM |
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On Feb 1, 3:38=A0pm, Pastor Dave <ananias917_@_gmail.com> wrote:
On Fri, 1 Feb 2008 02:47:17 -0800 (PST),
"roger.pea...@googlemail.com" <roger.pea...@googlemail.com>
But once the Jews aren't on the favoured list,
Israel will be destroyed. =A0It's being subjected
to the same attacks once directed to destroy
Rhodesia and South Africa. =A0Is that something
that we all want to see?
Actually, that would be a real feat! =A0A lot of people
aren't aware of just how well armed Israel is
I think that you haven't recognised the leftist technique of "war by
other means", including media reporting. The Rhodesians and South
Africans were not induced to surrender by military means.
All the best,
Roger Pearse
.
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| User: "Pastor Dave" |
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| Title: Re: Roman Soldiers (Rather Than Jews) Executed (Killed) Yeshua |
01 Feb 2008 04:00:56 PM |
|
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On Fri, 1 Feb 2008 11:58:01 -0800 (PST),
"roger.pearse@googlemail.com" <roger.pearse@googlemail.com>
spake thusly:
On Feb 1, 3:38 pm, Pastor Dave <ananias917_@_gmail.com> wrote:
On Fri, 1 Feb 2008 02:47:17 -0800 (PST),
"roger.pea...@googlemail.com" <roger.pea...@googlemail.com>
But once the Jews aren't on the favoured list,
Israel will be destroyed. It's being subjected
to the same attacks once directed to destroy
Rhodesia and South Africa. Is that something
that we all want to see?
Actually, that would be a real feat! A lot of people
aren't aware of just how well armed Israel is
I think that you haven't recognised the leftist technique of "war by
other means", including media reporting. The Rhodesians and South
Africans were not induced to surrender by military means.
This seems irrelevant to my points, which you snipped.
The fact is, that Israel can kick some serious *****
and they were ready to do so in 1991 and didn't,
only because we asked them not to.
In fact, the one world power I would be afraid of,
in a war, is not any nation except Israel. As I said,
apart from the size of their land, they could basically
clean our damn clocks! And the only thing that
would save us, is what we would have to resort to,
in order to defeat them, which is nuclear war.
But make no mistake, is Israel decided to go to war
and say "To Hell with the U.S.!", there's not much
we could do about it and they would clean the clocks
of any nation they chose to annihilate!
--
O
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Roman Soldiers (Rather Than Jews) Executed (Killed) Yeshua |
01 Feb 2008 04:31:35 PM |
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On Feb 1, 2:00=A0pm, Pastor Dave <ananias917_@_gmail.com> wrote:
On Fri, 1 Feb 2008 11:58:01 -0800 (PST),
"roger.pea...@googlemail.com" <roger.pea...@googlemail.com>
spake thusly:
On Feb 1, 3:38=A0pm, Pastor Dave <ananias917_@_gmail.com> wrote:
On Fri, 1 Feb 2008 02:47:17 -0800 (PST),
"roger.pea...@googlemail.com" <roger.pea...@googlemail.com>
But once the Jews aren't on the favoured list,
Israel will be destroyed. =A0It's being subjected
to the same attacks once directed to destroy
Rhodesia and South Africa. =A0Is that something
that we all want to see?
Actually, that would be a real feat! =A0A lot of people
aren't aware of just how well armed Israel is
I think that you haven't recognised the leftist technique of "war by
other means", including media reporting. =A0The Rhodesians and South
Africans were not induced to surrender by military means.
This seems irrelevant to my points, which you snipped.
The fact is, that Israel can kick some serious *****
and they were ready to do so in 1991 and didn't,
only because we asked them not to.
In fact, the one world power I would be afraid of,
in a war, is not any nation except Israel. =A0As I said,
apart from the size of their land, they could basically
clean our damn clocks! =A0And the only thing that
would save us, is what we would have to resort to,
in order to defeat them, which is nuclear war.
But make no mistake, is Israel decided to go to war
and say "To Hell with the U.S.!", there's not much
we could do about it and they would clean the clocks
of any nation they chose to annihilate!
--
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0O =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =
=A0 =A0
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0/
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0/
<><[]()X()[]><>><>><>><>><>><>><>><>><>><>><>><>><>><>
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0\
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0\
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0O
"Waste not fresh tears over old griefs." - Euripides- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Nonsense. Without billions of American tax dollars every year, the
Israelites would still be holding their dicks in their hands. If we
let them go right now against the Islamic nations, and stood back and
watched with a pact of non-interference, Israel would be overrun in
about 10 days, and G-D would NOT come to their assistance.
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| User: "Terry Cross" |
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| Title: Re: Roman Soldiers (Rather Than Jews) Executed (Killed) Yeshua |
01 Feb 2008 01:10:50 AM |
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On Jan 31, 4:28 pm, Pastor Dave <ananias917_@_gmail.com> wrote:
On Thu, 31 Jan 2008 15:52:47 -0800 (PST),
"roger.pea...@googlemail.com" <roger.pea...@googlemail.com>
spake thusly:
On Jan 31, 5:08 pm, Dannyil <Freed.Des...@gmail.com> wrote:
Does this mean now the conclusion is that
my ancestors killed your deity....
Sounds like someone is spoiling for a fight...
This is why I kill filed him. He sets up a straw man
and then when you reveal it as such, he claims that
you're trying to dodge the issue.
Not a single NT document is an eyewitness to the events.
Josephus is, and yet, everyone uses the NT, and ignores
Josephus. Go Figure....
Josephus, writing ca. 93 AD, is an eyewitness?
The NT documents, written by eyewitnesses
and their helpers, is not?
Your timing is off. And he was an eyewitness.
He was there, if you are discussing the Jewish War.
Even the NT documents were written prior to that,
regardless of majority opinion that tries to claim
otherwise, based on Irenaeus, whose statement
is ambiguous at best and who also thought that
Jesus was crucified at around the age of 50!
The man is right about people ignoring Josephus,
only when he doesn't say what they want to hear,
yet quote him whenever they think he does say
what they need him to. It's hypocritical.
Josephus was one man writing of a war between his enemies and his
people. Would he be unbiased? Come on, he was no more a saint that
any journalist today. The Roman poets cannot agree with the Greeks on
the heroism of Ulysses, despite that the Greeks were their only source
on the legend.
Viewpoint warps reportage. Why should the absence of Jesus in the
journals of Josephus be proof of the non-existence of Jesus?
And no, I am not defending this poster. I think
he's out to mess with people. I just call each
individual statement as I see it, that's all. :)
* Everyone agrees that Pilate was in control
* Everyone agrees that Jesus (if he even existed)
was crucified.
* Everyone agrees that this is a Roman practice
and has nothing to do with Jews.
Everyone agrees that the Jewish leadership dunnit.
The Bible says that it was the Jews who killed Christ.
That is a fact and Pilate wanted to let Him go.
For anyone interested, please see Acts 5:30; 10:39
and John 19:12-16.
Basically all Jews are now murderers.
That's what the Palestinians say.
That is slanderous. ALL Palestinians say that like ALL Jews killed
Jesus and ALL Americans killed Abraham Lincoln.
Good for them. Unlike most people, I am not
foolish enough to try to mix the two events.
In other words, they killed Jesus. But that
does not mean that:
1) They are guilty in the "Palestine" issue.
2) That we should hate Jews.
Perhaps we should hate all Americans because the Americans killed
Lincoln?
Each person will be judged on one thing:
Whether or not they have Christ as Lord
and Saviour in their lives. That's it!
Not. Jesus walked and talked for three years telling people how to
conduct their lives. Read the Sermon on the Mount - was Jesus just
blowing the mustache?
Jesus told us how to live our lives. You say our actions matter not.
Your words do not agree with the words of Jesus.
and they killed Jesus and a whole bunch of
other holy people. Then you wonder why
over the centuries, how many Jews have been
killed, maimed and slaughtered over this.
At the moment, Jews are getting killed, maimed
and slaughtered by people that they are trying to
oppress, or least that's what a lot of people say.
For some reason you want us to be anti-Jewish?
Why?
So now "a lot of people say so" is proof?
And of course, you wouldn't be counting
only those people who say that, while
ignoring the rest who say the opposite,
now would you? :)
Every action by every individual will be judged for that action.
Jesus did not say that "war forgives all." Jesus did not say that
"war means never having to follow Jesus."
As funny as it sounds, some people believe that. They love to go into
combat because it enables them to commit terrible evil and believe
themselves forgiven - or exempt - of their sins. The army hires
chaplains to ride with the soldiers and persuade them that while they
wear the Uniform, God will ignore the evil they do.
It is very sad, but we were given a garden and made it a jungle. We
now must play the part of beasts of prey.
TCross
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| User: "Terry Cross" |
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| Title: Re: Roman Soldiers (Rather Than Jews) Executed (Killed) Yeshua |
01 Feb 2008 01:17:53 AM |
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On Jan 31, 9:08 am, Dannyil <Freed.Des...@gmail.com> wrote:
Does this mean now the conclusion is that
my ancestors killed your deity....
Nice one. Even though its not historical.
Not a single NT document is an eyewitness to the events.
Josephus is, and yet, everyone uses the NT, and ignores Josephus.
Go Figure....
These are the figures:
Josephus, aka Yosef Ben Matityahu, aka (in his capacity as a Roman
citizen) Titus Flavius Josephus. Lived from 37 AD until sometime
after 100 AD.
Josephus was not born until four years after the Crucifixion.
TCross
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| User: "Dannyil" |
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| Title: Re: Roman Soldiers (Rather Than Jews) Executed (Killed) Yeshua |
02 Feb 2008 03:03:12 PM |
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Josephus, aka Yosef Ben Matityahu, aka (in his capacity as a Roman
citizen) Titus Flavius Josephus. Lived from 37 AD until sometime
after 100 AD.
Josephus was not born until four years after the Crucifixion.
He lived at the time of the Jewish Revolt. He is about as close
eyewitness you're going to get.
Danny.
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| User: "H.E. Eickleberry, Jr." |
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| Title: Re: Roman Soldiers (Rather Than Jews) Executed (Killed) Yeshua |
03 Feb 2008 03:28:04 AM |
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"Dannyil" <Freed.Design@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:5505d5e6-8f89-43b8-9ef3-1d4f014b38de@e23g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
Josephus, aka Yosef Ben Matityahu, aka (in his capacity as a Roman
citizen) Titus Flavius Josephus. Lived from 37 AD until sometime
after 100 AD.
Josephus was not born until four years after the Crucifixion.
He lived at the time of the Jewish Revolt. He is about as close
eyewitness you're going to get.
LOL
Not of Christ he isn't.
In fact, he wasn't THAT great of a Jewish historian.
Ike
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| User: "Dannyil" |
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| Title: Re: Roman Soldiers (Rather Than Jews) Executed (Killed) Yeshua |
03 Feb 2008 05:08:44 AM |
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On Feb 3, 11:28 am, "H.E. Eickleberry, Jr."
<xeickleberrybo...@verizon.net> wrote:
"Dannyil" <Freed.Des...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:5505d5e6-8f89-43b8-9ef3-1d4f014b38de@e23g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
Josephus, aka Yosef Ben Matityahu, aka (in his capacity as a Roman
citizen) Titus Flavius Josephus. Lived from 37 AD until sometime
after 100 AD.
Josephus was not born until four years after the Crucifixion.
He lived at the time of the Jewish Revolt. He is about as close
eyewitness you're going to get.
LOL
Not of Christ he isn't.
In fact, he wasn't THAT great of a Jewish historian.
Ike, basically you're antisemitic - you hate Jews.
try again.
Danny.
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| User: "H.E. Eickleberry, Jr." |
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| Title: Re: Roman Soldiers (Rather Than Jews) Executed (Killed) Yeshua |
03 Feb 2008 06:18:33 AM |
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"Dannyil" <Freed.Design@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:aa5a5e11-f96e-41ae-8695-8d042f31b86d@1g2000hsl.googlegroups.com...
On Feb 3, 11:28 am, "H.E. Eickleberry, Jr."
<xeickleberrybo...@verizon.net> wrote:
"Dannyil" <Freed.Des...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:5505d5e6-8f89-43b8-9ef3-1d4f014b38de@e23g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
Josephus, aka Yosef Ben Matityahu, aka (in his capacity as a Roman
citizen) Titus Flavius Josephus. Lived from 37 AD until sometime
after 100 AD.
Josephus was not born until four years after the Crucifixion.
He lived at the time of the Jewish Revolt. He is about as close
eyewitness you're going to get.
LOL
Not of Christ he isn't.
In fact, he wasn't THAT great of a Jewish historian.
Ike, basically you're antisemitic - you hate Jews.
I don't hate Jews. I hate frauds who THINK they are Jews. There IS a
difference. Jesus, Paul, and John all knew it. Too bad the ones who they are
but are not DON'T.
So I'm NOT "anti-Semitic." I'm anti-Pharisee, Sadducee, and Herodian--the
same people Jesus opposed, and the same ones preaching against Christ to
this day.
Ike
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| User: "cactus" |
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| Title: Re: Roman Soldiers (Rather Than Jews) Executed (Killed) Yeshua |
03 Feb 2008 12:07:21 PM |
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H.E. Eickleberry, Jr. wrote:
"Dannyil" <Freed.Design@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:aa5a5e11-f96e-41ae-8695-8d042f31b86d@1g2000hsl.googlegroups.com...
On Feb 3, 11:28 am, "H.E. Eickleberry, Jr."
<xeickleberrybo...@verizon.net> wrote:
"Dannyil" <Freed.Des...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:5505d5e6-8f89-43b8-9ef3-1d4f014b38de@e23g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
Josephus, aka Yosef Ben Matityahu, aka (in his capacity as a Roman
citizen) Titus Flavius Josephus. Lived from 37 AD until sometime
after 100 AD.
Josephus was not born until four years after the Crucifixion.
He lived at the time of the Jewish Revolt. He is about as close
eyewitness you're going to get.
LOL
Not of Christ he isn't.
In fact, he wasn't THAT great of a Jewish historian.
Ike, basically you're antisemitic - you hate Jews.
I don't hate Jews. I hate frauds who THINK they are Jews. There IS a
difference. Jesus, Paul, and John all knew it. Too bad the ones who they are
but are not DON'T.
So I'm NOT "anti-Semitic." I'm anti-Pharisee, Sadducee, and Herodian--the
same people Jesus opposed, and the same ones preaching against Christ to
this day.
Horeseshit. You are anti-Jewish because there are no Pharisees,
Sadducees or Herodians left on the planet. They died millennia ago.
You are carrying on an ancient hatred sown by Christian polemicists who
were conspicuously rejecting their heritage. You have carried their
neuroses on your back like a spiritual burden. Cast it off. Don't look
back. Be a Christian - Christianity is a great world religion. Your
spiritual steps will be lighter and your path will be easier.
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| User: "H.E. Eickleberry, Jr." |
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| Title: Re: Roman Soldiers (Rather Than Jews) Executed (Killed) Yeshua |
05 Feb 2008 12:54:05 PM |
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"cactus" <cactus@nonespam.com> wrote in message
news:Annpj.54136$Pv2.39056@newssvr23.news.prodigy.net...
H.E. Eickleberry, Jr. wrote:
"Dannyil" <Freed.Design@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:aa5a5e11-f96e-41ae-8695-8d042f31b86d@1g2000hsl.googlegroups.com...
On Feb 3, 11:28 am, "H.E. Eickleberry, Jr."
<xeickleberrybo...@verizon.net> wrote:
"Dannyil" <Freed.Des...@gmail.com> wr | | | | | | | | | |
