On Jun 4, 12:24 am, duke <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote:

On Sun, 3 Jun 2007 11:32:25 -0400, "Bill M" <w...@bellsouth.net> wrote:

Tempting whom? Your god doesn't exist. Science has proven that.
Martin

Science did? How about one example?

Just like Santa Claus, The Tooth Fairy and other imaginings, the total lack
of any objective
verifiable evidence for ANY gods existence is proof of its none existence.

But we have a plethora of evidence for God. YOU may not like it, but we
believe.

Get an education.

I've got one, and I believe in God.

Then you didn't get a very good education. Because you still believe
in fairy tales.

In article <54tg73ts9cidjdafb5isslbugfo08dp77h@4ax.com> Jd <ZionsFire@att.net> writes:

edu>
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Jd <ZionsFire@att.net>

Cary Kittrell wrote:

In article <810k639a4bgemta63re7fpem6slbs0jboi@4ax.com> Jd <ZionsFire@att.net> writes:

Cary Kittrell wrote:

Jd <ZionsFire@att.net>

Cary Kittrell wrote:

In article <f94v53tg86d0o65b1651dkb5qluug3omh3@4ax.com> Jd <ZionsFire@att.net> writes:

Q: "Does God or some other type of transcendent entity answer prayer?"

A: "The answer, according to a new Arizona State University study published in the March journal
Research on Social Work Practice, is "yes." "

This being the result of 17 "major studies" should be accepted as proof of the existence of a
supernatural being.....

"David R. Hodge, an assistant professor of social work in the College of Human Services at Arizona
State University, conducted a comprehensive analysis of 17 major studies on the effects of
intercessory prayer -- or prayer that is offered for the benefit of another person -- among people
with psychological or medical problems. He found a positive effect.
"There have been a number of studies on intercessory prayer, or prayer offered for the benefit of
another person," said Hodge, a leading expert on spirituality and religion. "Some have found
positive results for prayer. Others have found no effect. Conducting a meta-analysis takes into
account the entire body of empirical research on intercessory prayer. Using this procedure, we find
that prayer offered on behalf of another yields positive results.""

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/03/070314195638.htm

Jd

From the "Conclusions" section of the actual paper (as opposed to the
press release):


Practitioners who adhere to Division 12 criteria
have little basis for using intercessory prayer, in
spite of a meta-analysis indicating small, but
significant, effect sizes for the use of
intercessory prayer. Most practitioners, however,
are likely to affirm the broader understanding of
evidence-based practice articulated in the APA's
Presidential Task Force on Evidence-based Practice
(2006). Such practitioners may believe that the
beset available evidence curently supports the use
of intercessory prayer as an intervention.

Thus, at this junction in time, the results
might be considered inconclusive. Indeed, perhaps
the most certain result stemming from this study is
the following: The findings are unlikely to satisfy
either proponents or opponents of intercessory
prayer.



"small but significant". "inconclusive". No one will be likely to find
this study convincing, one way or the other.

I'm not sure what god is being studied here, which god is supposed to be
answering these prayers. Whatever It is, Its powers are so small and the
results of praying to It so faint and tenuous that only the most subtle and
tenacious of mathematical analyses are capable of detecting that It has
taken any action at all.

Somehow this doesn't sound to me like the god who promised to move a
mountain for you if you so request. This is a god who, if people pray to
It to cure your cancer, could grant you a percent or two over the average
survival rate.


-- cary

The title and source of said article....

"Does God Answer Prayer? Researcher Says 'Yes'" - Science Daily

So you would ban Science Daily, Random House Encyclopedia, along with all of the other scientific
sources I've quoted from wrt uncommon knowledge?

You gave me a press release. I gave you the actual article.

Your god says that anything you ask for in Jesus' name will be granted. If this
is true, then how come the difference between those prayed for and those
not prayed for was so slight that an analysis of 17 analyses was barely
able to see this difference, if it was seen at all?


-- cary

The point was that God exists.

The point was that if a god answering prayers exists, it's not the one
you have in mind. Yours promises 100% service on sincere prayers
made in Jesus' name.

The god who maaaaaybe intervened in a percent or so of the cases
in this study did nothing of the sort. In fact, others examining
the study didn't find that this god did anything at all.

So if you wish to continue to claim that subtle discrepancies
in this study prove the existance of god, just be aware that
your are proving the existance of some god other than the
one you first think of.

The god os this study not only does not move mountains on request,
it barely responds at all.


-- cary

So it's a good thing I'm here.

Fact of the matter is that there is no need to pray about things you can
do for yourself....

Not what Jesus said. You're "improving" Him.

Matthew 17:20 And Jesus said unto them, "Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If
ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, 'Remove hence to yonder
place'; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you".

But just don't ask for help with health problems, according to
your study.

First of all it was a study I found in Science Daily and was not "my study". Second of all, you
obviously didn't read "my study",

Actually, I did. Or to be more specific, I studied their
"Conclusions" section.


You, on the other hand, read a press release.


-- cary